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NL Notes: Contreras, Pirates, Santana

By Mark Polishuk | September 28, 2023 at 2:24pm CDT

Willson Contreras’ season came to an early end when the catcher was placed on the Cardinals’ 10-day injured list last week, though the good news is that Contreras’ bout of tendinitis in his left wrist doesn’t appear to need surgery, Cards manager Oliver Marmol told MLB.com and other media.  Contreras met with a hand specialist who advised that the wrist problem can be healed through a non-surgical recovery process, though since this specialist was a second opinion, that would imply that an initial diagnosis perhaps recommended some kind of procedure.

Nevertheless, Contreras will hopefully soon be healed up from both his wrist issue and other injuries, as Marmol mentioned that the catcher had also been playing through nagging soreness in his right hand and left wrist.  The health problems didn’t appear to hamper Contreras’ bat (.264/.358/.467 with 20 homers in 495 plate appearances), but they perhaps impacted his defense, as his framing and blocking numbers were both below average and he received a career-low -9 total as per the Defensive Runs Saved metric.

More from around the National League…

  • The Braves’ success is built on a foundation of long-term contracts with core players, and Yahoo Sports’ Hannah Keyser explores the team’s strategy in getting so many of its younger stars to lock into these deals.  “The sense around the industry is that the Braves put a particular emphasis on exclusively pursuing players whose agents are amenable to extensions,” Keyser writes, which includes some smaller agencies whose own fortunes would be boosted along with their client’s.  Geography is also a factor — Matt Olson, Michael Harris II, Austin Riley, Spencer Strider, and Sean Murphy are all either from Atlanta or have some family ties to Georgia or the southeastern United States, so they were particularly open to the idea of staying close to home.  There is also the simple fact that a solid long-term core roster makes other players want to join such a roster, as players are naturally more interested in remaining part of “a good environment, a winning culture,” as Olson put it.  President of baseball operations Alex Anthopoulos is praised for his rapport with the team, and the fact that he tends to first broach the topic of extensions personally with the players is perhaps a reason why so many deals get done (though Scott Boras is one agent who has concerns that such contact can hamper an agent’s ability to get the best possible contract for their client).
  • Several Pirates-related topics were discussed by the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette’s Jason Mackey in a chat with readers, including the possibility of a reunion between Carlos Santana and the Bucs this winter.  Santana signed a one-year, $6.725MM free agent deal with Pittsburgh last winter, then hit .235/.321/.412 with 12 home runs over 393 PA before being moved to the Brewers at the trade deadline.  Santana has had roughly a league-average bat or worse over the last four seasons and he turns 38 in April, so his market will likely again be limited to fairly inexpensive one-year deals.  This could fit the Pirates’ need for a veteran bat who can play at least part-time at first base/DH, and Santana was a popular mentor figure in the Pittsburgh clubhouse.  Mackey opines that the Pirates should devote the bulk of their spending this offseason towards pitching, with Santana perhaps representing a familiar, solid, and less-expensive answer for the Bucs’ first base need.
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Atlanta Braves Notes Pittsburgh Pirates St. Louis Cardinals Carlos Santana Willson Contreras

Offseason Outlook Chat Transcript: Pittsburgh Pirates
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NL West Notes: Rockies, Giants, Heyward
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51 Comments

  1. mlb1225

    2 years ago

    I wouldn’t be entirely opposed to a reunion with Santana. He did fine with the Pirates, providing an okay bat and a great glove at first base. He was probably the best first baseman (at least the most well-rounded) the Pirates have had since Adam LaRoche. But he will be 38 and I would be worried his age might be catching up to him. Large dips in exit velocity, hard ht rate, and barrel rate, all three of which are career worsts in. I know Santana is well liked by Pirates fans, and I very much enjoyed his tenure here, but forgive me if I would be concerned if a 38 year old first baseman starts hitting like a 38 year old first baseman.

    8
    Reply
    • oscar gamble

      2 years ago

      A one year deal has a limited chance of being a bad deal as long as the deal isn’t pricey enough that it limits the other moves the Pirates make.

      3
      Reply
    • DynamiteAdams

      2 years ago

      Justin Morneau was great for the Pirates too in a half season. Similar situation, they’ll never get anybody in their prime.

      1
      Reply
      • vtadave

        2 years ago

        Not sure a 96 OPS+ qualifies as “great”

        Reply
        • Hemlock

          2 years ago

          > Not sure a 96 OPS+ qualifies as “great”

          It’s great compared to what I would be hitting if I were playing!

          3
          Reply
      • mlb1225

        2 years ago

        Morneau was also six years younger than Santana will be in 2024, and he did not perform great for the very short amount of time he was in Pittsburgh.

        Reply
    • TheMan 3

      2 years ago

      He can’t be any worse than 28 year old Rivas or by 2024, 32 year old Connor Joe at first base.

      1
      Reply
      • mlb1225

        2 years ago

        Rivas hasn’t been all that much worse than Santana has with the Brewers. The difference is only 5% in OPS+. If this was 2018, then of course I’d rather have Santana, but at 38 and declining raw power, I’d be afraid it might start to phase into his game power.

        1
        Reply
    • Baller4mlb

      2 years ago

      Honestly I love Carlos but he’d be a liability at that age next season. I’d imagine a substantial drop off after this season. With cutch coming back I just don’t see it happening

      1
      Reply
    • PiratesFan1981

      2 years ago

      See, I am hoping for CJ Cron to platoon with Triolo/Malcom Nunez (3rd option in case of injury or under preforming of Cron or Nunez) over reunion with Santana. Two pitchers I like to see them land is Montgomery and Sonny Gray. Since the Pirates have concerns with 3/5 of their rotation, I think these two are reasonable additions with a loaded SP free agency. There is the headline of Ohtani and then 3 international options with 2 being a “posting fee”. Then you have Kreshaw, Gray, Stroman, Ryu, Giolito, Nola, and many more. This FA market has many options and the price will be record breaking. It will be close to Coles record breaking deal. I can see the Pirates signing 2 free agents from this years starters.

      Roberto Perez at catcher with Endy would be ideal. Catcher was the next weakest link to SP. Granted this is all free agents without including McCutchen. But I feel Gray, Montgomery, Cron, McCutchen, and Perez would be enough veterans to push this young group to the next level. May not be headliners, but it can punch them into wild card slot.

      1
      Reply
      • mlb1225

        2 years ago

        Look man, I’d be thrilled with Gray and Montgomery, but there’s no way they get both. I will say that I could see them giving 110% effort to sign Montgomery because GMBC has a never ending love for veteran lefty starters, and if there was a better time than ever to pursue a decent SP, now is it.

        Reply
        • Baller4mlb

          2 years ago

          Never say never sir

          Reply
        • PiratesFan1981

          2 years ago

          Signing Montgomery and Gray would be huge to the organization. We never thought they would sign guys like McCutchen or Santana last year. At this point, I think the chances are a bit more possible (less than say 5 years ago) to spend money. GM said he is going to make the Pirates contenders for 2024 season. Bob says he wants to open the wallet it improve the club. Nothing is impossible

          Reply
      • YourDreamGM

        2 years ago

        Santana looks about down. His defense is nice but bat wise he isn’t anything better than Joe Andujar Tri. Rivas even isn’t far off total. Gonzales Davis Cruz might have to move over there. Endy a lil bit maybe. Lots of options or at least experiments. Santana was awesome for 2023. Will he be as good a year older in 2024? Will he be significantly better than current options? Enough so to take up a roster spot? Cron or cheap in house? I think Pirates fans know the answer to this one.

        Reply
      • bobveale

        2 years ago

        Sonny Gray and Montgomery?? In our dreams but I dont think so, not even close. The best SP they sign this winter will be inferior to either, but a reliable 3-4 SP would help + an option for the 4-5 spot. Between good prospects J. Jones, Solometo, etc., they have Brubaker and Burrows returning from injury, Cruz, Priester, A. Jackson, Falter, Contreras as options for the back end.

        Reply
        • YourDreamGM

          2 years ago

          VV if healthy outlook is ideal. Whatever free agent that has a good breaking ball that no other team wants is likely. Likely a lefty. Maybe Hill for much cheaper. Pirates don’t need a full season from him. Just until somewhere between super 2 late june to September. 1st maintain rookie status. TJ guys and prospects will be available to fill holes.

          Reply
  2. RunDMC

    2 years ago

    It should be noted that Matt Olson’s agent is Chipper Jones’ former agent and BFF, so I’m sure they got intel whether Olson was amenable to an extension pre-trade finalization. And don’t you think they’d give up a catching piece for someone they’d control long-term? And don’t you think Olson would talk up his team to former teammate Sean Murphy in regards to interest on an extension?

    3
    Reply
  3. Slider_withcheese

    2 years ago

    Contreras may physically heal, but the mental abuse and emotional trauma suffered at the hands of the front office, manager, cry baby pitchers, and the self appointed greatest fans in baseball, will not. He deserves better than that clown show team.

    7
    Reply
    • solaris602

      2 years ago

      I wouldn’t go that far, but the way the FO signaled buyer’s remorse very early in the season got the relationship off to a very rocky start. Missteps and poor PR work by Marmol and Mo should never happen, but they did, and neither really cleared the air. I’m sure any time they approach Contreras about a possible trade – anywhere – he’ll be all in.

      7
      Reply
    • saluelthpops

      2 years ago

      You did read his defensive stats, right? But sure, the $85 million dollar man should get a free pass. Poor guy.

      7
      Reply
      • Slider_withcheese

        2 years ago

        They signed him for his bat.
        You do know they walked away from a trade for Sean Murphy because they (as usual) overvalued their players. Lars Nootbaar, Brandan Donovan, or pitcher Gordon Graceffo, right? 29 other GMs/POBOs make that deal without question. Poor fans,

        3
        Reply
        • Jake1972

          2 years ago

          They signed him to play catcher and he has never been worth anything behind the plate, and that is why the Cubs let him walk.

          Two organizations and it is the teams fault he can’t call games correctly or pitch frame properly… No, he is just horrible at catching and that contract will come back and bite the Red Birds hard but hey he isn’t a Cub any longer at least!

          1
          Reply
        • Slider_withcheese

          2 years ago

          They knew about his defense and they saw it first hand for years. He’s a scapegoat for a horribly run organization that will make themselves comfortable in the cellar for a decade

          3
          Reply
    • WillieMaysHayes24

      2 years ago

      No one cries more than you, slider. Always on here whining about something.

      11
      Reply
      • Slider_withcheese

        2 years ago

        It’s more of a gloat actually. You show know that as the president of my fan club

        1
        Reply
        • Jonny5

          2 years ago

          More delusions of grandeur, not at all surprising coming from you.

          4
          Reply
        • CujoMarlin

          2 years ago

          I don’t think you know what gloating is.

          Reply
    • TheMan 3

      2 years ago

      Pirates fans deserve better treatment than what you offer Slider without Brains

      6
      Reply
    • CujoMarlin

      2 years ago

      What did the fans do to Contreras?

      Reply
    • laynestaley2002

      2 years ago

      “Self appointed” – that’s as made up by you as pretty much everything else you post.

      With just a very small amount of research, you would know that the best fans in baseball moniker was not appointed by the Cardinals fans, but by fellow major league baseball players, claiming that the Cardinals fans are intelligent fans who are into the game from pitch one, until the last out.

      But I know that doing research would hinder your spouting off with false nonsensical BS. Keep being your usual, worthless self. It’s entertaining to read your moronic comments that come from your mom’s basement.

      Reply
    • laynestaley2002

      2 years ago

      “Self appointed” – that’s as made up by you as pretty much everything else you post.

      With just a very small amount of research, you would know that the best fans in baseball moniker was not appointed by the Cardinals fans, but by fellow major league baseball players, claiming that the Cardinals fans are intelligent fans who are into the game from pitch one, until the last out.

      But I know that doing research would hinder your spouting off with false nonsensical crap. Keep being your usual, worthless self. It’s entertaining to read your moronic comments that come from your mom’s basement.

      Reply
    • laynestaley2002

      2 years ago

      “Self appointed” – that’s as made up by you as pretty much everything else you post.

      With just a very small amount of research, you would know that the best fans in baseball moniker was not appointed by the Cardinals fans, but by fellow major league baseball players, claiming that the Cardinals fans are intelligent fans who are into the game from pitch one, until the last out.

      But I know that doing research would hinder your spouting off with your typical, false, nonsense . Keep being your usual, worthless self. It’s entertaining to read your moronic comments that come from your mom’s basement.

      Reply
  4. sampsonite168

    2 years ago

    The agents for Acuna and Albies should have statues erected outside of Truist Park. “Team friendly” isn’t a strong enough word to convey just how much money they cost their clients with those deals.

    5
    Reply
    • fivepoundbass

      2 years ago

      That is true. Some people want the safety blanket.

      2
      Reply
      • Smacky

        2 years ago

        And both have had serious injuries.

        4
        Reply
    • Hemlock

      2 years ago

      > just how much money they cost
      > their clients with those deals.

      Hindsight is always 20/20.

      How do we know what the players told their agents? “I want long-term security for me and my family. Go get it done.”

      The players have to sign the contracts.

      Nobody forced them.

      At some point in life, you’re responsible for your own actions. I would like to think this is one of those times for those players, regardless of what the agent’s interests represent.

      The agent loses out in the long run, too, under such contracts as the ones Acuna and Albies signed.

      8
      Reply
      • whyhayzee

        2 years ago

        Agents never lose, they make money for doing nothing. Maybe they make less money on some deals than they could if they were simply greedy but they sure as heck don’t lose. What the heck are these Braves players’ agents doing now but making money? Watching the games? Easy street, baby.

        Reply
  5. Spinning Wheel

    2 years ago

    Would Triolo’s stellar golden glove at 3rd throughout his minor league tenure translate somewhat to 1st base? That is, enough to tentatively peg him there and therefore allow any money spent on Santana to instead go toward pitching?

    1
    Reply
    • mlb1225

      2 years ago

      Based on what I’ve seen so far, Triolo has looked amazing at first base, though it’s only been a few games. Personally, I’d rather see Triolo take over at first base next season rather than resign Santana.

      1
      Reply
      • SouthernBuc

        2 years ago

        My fear with Triolo is that his bat is a mirage as his BABIP is not going to continue. Counter argument(talking to myself) is he had a hamate injury and the power, exit velocity etc will increase and meet somewhere in the middle.. ie. decent bat / decent power but outstanding glove. But I do think we Pirate fans are falling in love / booking him in the 2024 lineup a little early.

        Reply
        • mlb1225

          2 years ago

          If there is any reason to be skeptical about Triolo, I wouldn’t say it’s Babip. Sure, he has a really high one right now, but you can’t really tell just how lucky/unlucky he is truly getting with such a small sample size.

          Reply
        • PiratesPundit51

          2 years ago

          Agree with you, with the caveat that BABIP is a somewhat flawed stat. Triolo has a very veteran approach already, he was the only one of the rookies who seemed to place a high value on contact (especially with 2 strikes).

          “Contact that should have been an out but wasn’t” is really what we want BABIP to tell us, but there is a distinct difference between soft-serving an outside pitch to RF versus rolling that same pitch past a less-than-rangy SS at medium exit velocity. Triolo didn’t do much of the latter, meaning his BABIP was a more of a function of approach and less about luck.

          Triolo is more a Mercer type – he’s going to play very good to excellent defense while giving you solid ABs. We expect power from the 1B position, but I’m fine getting 15 HRs from him and Hayes, so long as Cruz can get himself into the 25-30 HR range (which is not unrealistic).

          Eye tests mean nothing, but Triolo looks more like a solid semi-regular than any of the other rookies who came up this season. He’s also probably closer to his ceiling than the others, but I’m fine with that, given how many times over the past two decades we’ve heard about the greatness of X prospect only to see him wash out within a season or two.

          Reply
    • YourDreamGM

      2 years ago

      Most people who can play 3b 2b ss should be able to play 1b. Have to learn the footwork and responsibilities but glove will play.

      1
      Reply
    • panj341

      2 years ago

      Yes spend extra on pitching . Love Santana but he is only going to tail off eventually due to his age. Also love Cutch but Davis should be our DH . He doesn’t seem to be improving in RF.

      Reply
  6. Hemlock

    2 years ago

    Scotty boy,
    Not faulting you but this is all that I could read from what you had to say—

    (though $¢ott Bora$ i$ on£ ag£nt who ha$ ¢on¢£rn$ that $u¢h ¢onta¢t ¢an hamp£r an ag£nt’$ ability to g£t th£ b£$t po$$ibl£ ¢ontra¢t for th£ir ¢li£nt).

    6
    Reply
  7. Manfred’s playing with the balls

    2 years ago

    Braves and Dodgers have taken the Rays playbook and are avoiding long term deals with Boras clients. In the last few years Friedman has cleared out a former all-star team in Boras guys.

    There’s tons of stupid greed on both sides, MLB doesn’t want to expand rosters, except as a bargaining chip. Even though, baseball front offices know modern injury treatment, concussion protocols, and pitcher usage make adding a roster spot or two beneficial for everyone.

    Scott Boras is constantly going for the most money, instead of getting his client the most money out of the best fit for the player and human.

    MLB vs MLBPA/Agents has become a petty soap opera where their greed is based on principle.

    4
    Reply
  8. whyhayzee

    2 years ago

    “The sense around the industry is that the Braves put a particular emphasis on exclusively pursuing players whose agents are amenable to extensions,”

    It would be nice to see Borass put out of business by successful teams telling him to take a hike with his nonsense and eventually other teams realizing that they didn’t need his nonsense either.

    Reply
  9. Scott Kliesen

    2 years ago

    Pirates should sign Bellinger and Montgomery this winter to multi-year 8/9 figure contracts.

    Pirates will likely instead sign Santana and Severino to single year low 7 figure deals and pray for a Pirate City locker room attendant to discover the fountain of youth next March.

    Reply
  10. Edp007

    2 years ago

    When I was a kid and we played ball outside , we’d choose teams , you were either a tigers , reds or pirates fan ( very early 70s) , everyone wanted to be Bench behind the plate , but Manny Sanguillen had a huge following.
    Stargell etc what a great fun team for a long time.

    1
    Reply
  11. EasternLeagueVeteran

    2 years ago

    Fair to say that none of Atlanta’s extensions were done with Scott Boras. Seems to me that is smart and fiscally responsible. The Washington Nationals had done it almost the opposite way in their heyday years, gathering a Boras crop of players who all went from old to older together.
    Different philosophy towards winning. Not BillyBall either.

    So who plays AA in this movie?

    Reply

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