One of the big offseason questions for the Yankees is how to proceed with Gleyber Torres. The veteran second baseman is one year from free agency, projected by MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz for a $15.3MM salary in his final year of arbitration.
That’s still solid value for the team’s second-best hitter. Torres had a strong 2023 campaign, hitting .273/.347/.453 with 25 home runs across 672 plate appearances. With 23-year-old Oswald Peraza having reached the MLB level, there’s a case for the Yankees to move Torres for help elsewhere on the roster.
Chris Kirschner and Brendan Kuty of the Athletic reported on Wednesday that the Yankees had not engaged Torres’ camp on extension talks. Certainly, it’s early enough in the winter that they could still do so. Yet there hasn’t seemed much urgency on the part of the organization to keep Torres beyond his control window. During 2023 Spring Training, the infielder replied “I wish” when asked by ESPN’s Marly Rivera whether there had been any extension talks before he and the team agreed to a one-year arbitration deal.
The absence of an extension doesn’t mean the Yankees need to make a trade. They could retain Torres for a final season and potentially make him a qualifying offer next winter. Since they’re likely to exceed the luxury tax in 2024, the compensation pick would presumably fall after the fourth round if Torres declines a QO and signs with another team. New York could find a more valuable return this winter if they feel comfortable with Peraza stepping into an everyday second base role.
One potential trade partner: the archrival Red Sox. Rob Bradford of WEEI wrote yesterday that Boston identified Torres as a trade target during the 2023 season. Meanwhile, Sean McAdam of MassLive.com reports that the Yankees have shown prior interest in Boston right fielder Alex Verdugo, whom they could again pursue this offseason.
There’s merit to a potential swap involving Torres and Verdugo. Each is one year from free agency. Verdugo, as a left-handed hitting outfielder who rarely strikes out, is the type of player that Yankees GM Brian Cashman is openly targeting. The Red Sox have Jarren Duran and Masataka Yoshida alongside Verdugo as lefty-swinging outfielders. Boston’s first-year chief baseball officer Craig Breslow indicated this week they’ve already received interest in Verdugo from other teams.
Torres is the better player. Verdugo is coming off a .264/.324/.421 showing and has been a roughly league average hitter in three straight seasons. He has solid grades in right field but isn’t a fit in center. Torres has greater positional value as a middle infielder, even if he’s not a particularly strong defensive second baseman.
That makes Verdugo a little more affordable financially, however. Swartz projects him for a $9.2MM salary, roughly $6MM below the Torres estimate. The difference might not be enough for the Yankees to accept a direct one-for-one swap, but they’re close enough in trade value that it’s not hard to see the match on paper.
It should be noted that Boston’s reported interest in Torres this past season came under previous chief baseball officer Chaim Bloom. Breslow, hired three weeks ago, may have a different evaluation. With a lackluster second base group headlined by Pablo Reyes and Enmanuel Valdez, the desire for help at the position remains. Breslow indicated this week that the team could look for a second baseman, ideally one who hits from the right side. Bradford writes that some members of the Boston organization still view Torres as a good fit. With middle infield prospects Nick Yorke and Marcelo Mayer likely one season from MLB readiness, a veteran bridge at the position aligns with the organizational timeline.
The biggest obstacle may just be the acrimony between the organizations. The Red Sox and Yankees are unsurprisingly infrequent trade partners. They’ve lined up on deals just three times in the past 25 years. New York acquired minor league outfielder Greg Allen this past May. The Sox essentially “bought” prospect Frank German by taking on the Adam Ottavino contract in 2021. The teams swapped struggling veterans Stephen Drew and Kelly Johnson at the 2014 deadline.
A deal involving Verdugo and Torres (or even a trade featuring just one of the two) would be much more notable than any of those transactions. There’s an argument that each player is a better fit for the other team’s roster as currently constructed. With both clubs trying to jump from the bottom half of the AL East back to the postseason, it’s one of various paths they could consider in the weeks to come.
29 other teams in baseball would be glad to have Gleyber.
Think Rangers are fine with Semien
Think Padres are fine with Kim
Think Cubs are fine with Hoener
Think Astros are fine with Altuve
Think Mets are fine with McNeil
Think Braves are fine with Albies
I’m sure there’s more teams. Plus you gotta figure rebuilding teams probably aren’t interested.
List is a lot shorter than you think.
Guardians have Giménez.
while i see what you are saying not sure darkside said gleybar as 2nd baseman but the player gleybar. They could have him in general. and McNeil could move to the outfield for 2nd base if torres was there or one could potentially move to dh although they have a lot of prospects coming up for that infield.. Im sure the braves could use him at SS if they want to sacrifice some defense. Also im pretty sure the padres dont care and would get him they have what 4-5 SS on the everyday lineup why not throw another former shortstop in the mix.
I mean in general. My point is NYY fans underappreciate him.
They always take things so literal don’t they.
@Roll: Theoretically, the Mets have Acuña to slide in at 2B at some point next season, so they are probably set there between him and McNeil.
@Roll: If the Mets move McNeil off 2B, it will be for Mauricio. They have no need to take on Torres’ contract.
@rct
“McNeil could move to the outfield for 2nd base if torres was there or one could potentially move to dh although they have a lot of prospects coming up for that infield”
Already mentioned that in my post … Also McNeil seems like the odd man out and is currently trade bait from what rumors are saying to get back decent pitching.
Right now multiple positions in the air as you dont know who is playing 3b dh and potentially left field along with marte not doing much. While Acuna can come up mid season and if he does Torres could be traded at that time worst case its a QO and pick. Hopefully some of the 4 or 5 prospects / young guys coming up fill those.
@blue Baron
If they dont move mcneil to another team and/or mauricio doesnt end up as the 3b or left field himself as it seems baty isnt locked in for 3b. Also both could end up in the corner outfield with marte becoming the 4th outfield due to low production. So it is very feasible Torres would be usable worst case as a consistent bat as none of Baty / Vientos / Mauricio / etc etc have shown to be a mlb hitter yet. It is small sample for all of them although baty has been given a decent sample already.
I hope mcneil doesnt go anywhere but right now he is really the only movable piece with good value unless you dig into prospects.
“My point is NYY fans underappreciate him.”
Were people suppose to get that from your first sentence? After reading both sentences, I still dont see how the first one has anything to do with the fans.
@roll: I saw enough of Mauricio that I would be just as happy to see McNeil traded for a decent pitcher.
The Mets are not getting Gleyber Torres in a trade regardless,
I don’t think they need him, but why do you say that?
I think that Mauricio may be the opening day 3B unless Baty or Vientos suddenly learn how to hit MLB pitching and play defense.
McNeil has a higher career WAR and is cheaper than Torres. Not moving him for a lesser player.
“Also McNeil seems like the odd man out and is currently trade bait from what rumors are saying to get back decent pitching.”
I have not heard or read any of these rumors and would be shocked if they traded McNeil. He’s not the odd man out, he’s a starter at either a corner outfield position or 2B. Acuna is at AA and if they use Mauricio at 2B, McNeil will just slide out to RF or LF, which is a hole at the moment. There’s zero reason to trade McNeil, who is on a team-friendly deal and you would be selling low on.
You don’t trade McNeil for Torres. You move him to Milwaukee as part of a deal for Corbin Burnes or Devin Williams or Seattle for a guy like Bryce Miller.
@rct
there have been many teams calling but the biggest connection i think was the mariners as they line up well. I agree that the mets should keep the squirrel, he is one of my faves on the team but for the exact reasons you mention in that he is a solid bat cheap and signed long term is what makes him valuable. He could bring you back a starting pitcher the team needs and outside of 2 who do you really have at the major league level or coming up from the minors.
Right now if it is a rebuild year where do you play mauricio acuna and gilbert which all should be up this year at some point. This also doesnt factor in potentially vientos and baty (yes yes i know but still you never know). So you have pretty much your position part of the roster spoken for (Of of Gilbert Nimmo (Marte/McNeil/Stewart and if with Mauricio Lindor Acuna Alonso Alvarez and bench with Marte Stewart (backup catcher) and super sub (like Guillorme.). This also doesnt include if you have a dedicated DH. Out of all this who is the most expendable with value to bring back something. McNeil.
If Mauricio is on the mlb roster you can pretty much guarantee Acuna will be in AAA with williams in AA. I think projections even have him starting in AAA this season regardless of Mauricio. .
Jett Williams is also moving up quickly and could soon be part of the picture.
Not all Yankee fans, but he does come with a down size regardless of his offensive output. But I’d hold on to him as a Yankee fan.
Why would the Yankees trade Gleyber Torres to the Mets? Since the Mets have nothing they need?
The Mets have plenty of what the Yankees need: young talent in a top 8 or 10 farm system.
But they have no need for Torres.
Phils have Stott.
@Ban Jacob Nix. Now think of the teams that could use his bat at DH in addition to spelling the current 2B and it becomes longer than YOU think
Not the Braves
No trading Gleyber to the Red Sox would be highway robbery for Boston. Please don’t make mention of it again! Not happening for Verdugo. He isn’t that good, easy pass on him. Bellinger is a much better fit for the Yankees then the overrated Verdugo. Smh
Verdugo was a golden glove finalist this year. He’s got that at least.
Ok so the Red Sox should keep him then.
LaLa – Exactly! The Yanks are not gonna have $260M+ contracts at every position, such silliness to think they will buy the top available player at every position.
Oh.. so he’s the Designated Hitter?
Cap – I strongly disagree. Yanks will be spending huge bucks on one, maybe two starting pitchers. They are not gonna also drop over $260M on an outfielder, they are not gonna be pushing a $400M payroll.
I hope the trade doesn’t happen, but I would like to see how many HRs Verdugo could hit with that short porch in RF for 81 games.
Bellinger is a much better fit for the Yankees then the overrated Verdugo. Smh
==============================
Of course, but is also $200M more expensive.
I’m not going to read one word of this so why don’t you shut your pie hole whatever the author of this nonsense is. Shut it and shut it good. Don’t ever speak of such sin.
I do feel like torres has more value than verdugo, doesn’t seem like a smart trade for the yankees
Except Yankees and redsox are Israel and Palestine. Even if the trade makes sense they’re way too much ego between the two
Sparky Lyle and Danny Cater would like to have a word.
OMG blast from the past, remember them both, great trade for the Yankees obviously but at the time most fans didn’t think so.
It wasn’t such a big deal for the Red Sox and Yankees to make a trade then.
After Babe Ruth (which was done by a desperate owner) the two teams had very few transactions. The one trade of Lyle for Cater, in the early 70s, is all that happened. And the Lyle was a “big deal” back then.
FYI, the “sale” (not trade) of Ruth had nothing to do with desperation. Ruth had become driven to grab a huge payday, at a level only the franchise in NY could afford. Baseball finances were very very different then than they are now. He also had become flaky, living a fast a loose high life that had many worried he wouldn’t keep up his performance or, more importantly, health. By his last year in Boston , it was being reported that Ruth had become an issue in the clubhouse given all circumstances. Boston and its fans knew darn well how incredibly good he was, but it would have been a huge stretch to pay him what he wanted even if he did not bring a very risky profile going forward. Boston’s options were to 1) keep him at least pay than he wanted, and hope his dissatisfaction didn’t blow up, or 2) sell him to the Yankees, the only team that could functionally pay him as desired. And so, they went with option 2. We have primary sources available that document the reasonings and reactions at the time, and they had nothing to do with desperate owners. The fan reaction basically was “well, it stinks to have to lose a player as great as Ruth, but there wasn’t really an alternative”.
MLB was a league that was rapidly evolving in terms of economics, all while sports were seeing the birth of the “superstar”. It could be argued (not declaring this, just throwing it out there) that Ruth was the first “diva” superstar athlete and/or the first one to take control of his own destiny to a major extent. MLB for decades really held players hostage, but we see even today that the right player can and always has been able to transcend team “control”.
That wasn’t all that happened.
The Yankees acquired Herb Pennock from the Red Sox in 1923 and Red Ruffing in 1930.
The Red Sox acquired Elston Howard from the Yankees in 1967.
The Red Sox traded Mike Easler to the Yankees for Don Baylor in 1986.
There have only been a few such trades, but they were notable.
“FYI, the “sale” (not trade)”
Who said he was traded? Selling a ballplayer is a “transaction” right? Learn to read.
All such transactions involve the transfer of player contracts and/or cash from one franchise to another in exchange for cash, other player contracts, or both.
Thus, essentially all player trades are sales of assets for consideration and vice versa.
Why do you feel the need to split hairs over semantics, Dave?
I was responding to redsux, not you.
He said “FYI, the “sale” (not trade)”
Ask him why he needed to split hairs. I thought it was an odd difference too.
I guess he doesnt know the Red Sox sold off every star they had at the time. Red Sox ownership mustve thought they were all divas, and not that they needed the money.
OK
Yankees need to punt a season and reboot. Torres will bring back a decent prospect or a player with more control. Try packaging him with someone else to see if you can get a bite. Cashman really screwed the pooch signing Carl Pavano 2.0 last year and everybody but Cashman knew it the day he signed him. Bring the kids up let em get comfortable for a year and find a LF. Call it an off-season.
I actually think Rodon will have a good year. When healthy, he’s been near elite. It’s that whole “when healthy” thing that seems to be a problem.
A lot of players have good years when they’re healthy.
No doubt, but he was a top 5 sp in baseball those two years by most measures. I’m just betting on him returning to good form again.
Makes sense to me, I’d be for it.
If it’s a 1-for-1 I’d be OK.
I’d also be OK turning the keys over up the middle to Ceddane and Trevor, and then letting Yoshida/Duran/Verdugo run with things until someone was ready to step up to mlb mid-season before paying the Yankees prospect value over Verdugo for a one year rental at 16m.
Now, that’s not to say I wouldn’t prefer an OF upgrade beyond that alignment, point just is I’d rather roll with what’s available before paying the Yankees beyond a contract swap.
True there Gasoxfan. While Rafaela’s highlight reel calibre defense over shadows his “just” average middle infield, he still is more than capable of playing SS/2b defensively at more than likely an average, if not possibly slight above average MLB level.
I’d be more game into moving Doogie for prospects than in taking back another 1yr rental, even if it was a 1-1 swap. That 16mAAV hit for Torres can be better utilised on starting pitching, which is needed more than a position where the system has average-ish type kids to fill in for a year.
No way I add to the trade from Boston’s side due to the financials. Just a pure swap would save the Yankees about $8m or or more counting the penalty tax the Yankees will otherwise have to pay. My wild card preference is to move Story back to second where he played as good defense as anyone and then get Tim Anderson on a prove it one year leash.
I wish the Red Sox would finally get serious about getting better defensively. Torres ain’t that guy. That’s why the Yankees aren’t interested in extending him. All bat no glove. No thanks.
Dewey Tim has already said he’d play 2nd so if they sign him he plays second since Story is the much better short stop defender. Tim Anderson was really awful last year though truly one of the worst hitters in baseball.
dewey – I’m no Story fan, but you play your best defensive SS where he helps the most …. at shortstop.
I think it may be a moot point though, I have a feeling Breslow will be trying hard to trade Story. Now’s the best time with so little available for shortstops on the free agent and trade markets, and Breslow can sell his offensive struggles as “working his way back from injury”.
Bruin – I wouldn’t want Anderson’s attitude on the team, he’s far too selfish and divisive for anything he *may* bring on the field.
Me neither Fever I want no part of that guy.
Fever I would check in with Minnesota on Kyle Farmer as a one year defense stopgap. His defense at 2nd especially is quite good and he shouldn’t cost much.
why not India or senzel?
India will cost quite a bit more and no on Senzel plus Farmers a better defender at 2nd and should be cheap.
“why not India or senzel?”
India has a few years of control. Red Sox have several young players coming up, (middle infield and outfield) They dont want to overpay and have the opposite problem in a year or two.
Senzel isnt an option. Red Sox have better options than him in-house.
Yes to India, but it will cost more than just Verdugo. If we could add a non-premier prospect, and get three years of India, I think it has a whole lot of potential.
Basically, Torres is a better one-year bet, while India might be a better three-year bet.
GASox – Just curious, why are you down on Abreu? I mean an .862 OPS over his first 28 MLB games is gosh darn good as Wally would say.
Fever – I’m not down on Abreu at all. Quite the opposite, actually. But, in a world Verdugo DOESNT get moved this offseason, and, given we don’t know what Breslow will do on the SP front, I’m OK with Abreu opening the season in AAA to play the service-time game if 2024 isnt much of a competitive season and thus set his FA back by a year….
You work the CBA you’re given to benefit the team the most long term.
GA – Until Anthony is ready, Abreu needs to play LF. An outfield that costs less than $3MM and has three young up and comers would be awesome and allow Breslow to focus all the money on SP and 3B. Throw in Merrifield at 2B for speed at the bottom of the order and Boston takes a big step forward with two top of the rotation SPs.
Verdugo can be a back-up but he’s not the future, he’s the ugly, ugly past. Abreu is the future 4th outfielder so it makes sense to give him playing time over Verdugo. I would non-tender Verdugo if you can deal him for something small or very young.
Verdugo is going to get traded I’m pretty sure of it. Then you turn right field to Abreu assuming he has a good spring.
And you would have to pay b/c the Empire are not trading him 1/1. They’d have to put in another prospect to make it feasible.
Boston should roll the dice on Tim Anderson for a year. He’ll be cheap and if his injuries have finally healed up will provide Torres level offense with a bit less power without giving up prospects or Verdugo, just money.
The Red Sox want Gleyber Torres? We’ll trade him straight up for Marcelo Mayer. Ok then so stop!
Judge, I hear the Yankees have checked in twice on Verdugo counting last season, so, let’s trade him straight up for peraza. OK then so stop!
See, we can be just as unrealistic as you.
Yeah I don’t understand that Torres for Mayer swap. Torres is solid with one year left and blocking a top prospect. Why wouldn’t he be available at a fair price? He is solid but is not a franchise altering player. I don’t get his hostility.
Nooo way the Yankees are trading Gleyber or Peraza for Verdugo, I definitely think if you trade Verdugo to the Reds you could probably land Jonathan India though. So stop!
It’s not really that unrealistic when the difference in cost is figured in. I don’t think all things being equal Verdugo is as valuable as Torres but when you bring in he costs 7 million less then imo there pretty close. Close enough that if Cashman sees Verdugo as a good fit it’s not a bad one year trade.
Bruin1012 – We had Bloom for so long we have forgotten what makes a trade good!!!
Eating Torres money to fill a current hole with a guy who has no starting position in 2024 makes perfect sense. If we didn’t need a 2B then eating the money makes no sense but we do and it’s not much money. Personally, I’d rather have Merrifield to improve team speed since the rule changes. But that’s me.
When was the last time Cashman made a smart one for one trade? Ever? At least the Red Sox know when to cut bait on a bad front office. Cashman should have finally earned his unemployment notice after signing Rodon last year. I swear even the Mets got a laugh out of that contract announcement. Especially since once again the player the Yankees desperately needed was playing for another team after coming up in the Yankees farm system and leaving for the Giants for free.
LOL! Verdugo & Torres have similar bWARs over the past year, past three years, past four years, and for a career.
I’d say Torres is certainly better, but I would also wager that he is not more than 1 bWAR better in 2024.
As a Boston fan, I don’t think I would be opposed to that at all, fairly even in the contract department, and both only have one year left on their deals, not sure
Of course you wouldn’t! It’s because Gleyber is much better then Verdugo. No thanks.
Gleyber isn’t that great with the glove to be honest. If he’s so great you guys ought to extend him.
GASox – He’s not that much better with the bat either, .789 OPS to .765 for Verdugo.
Fever – Need to create fractions to evaluate.
Verdugo will cost $9.2MM if he comes in at 100 OPS+ he’s at least a $4.2MM over pay. If he comes in at 120 ish with his OPS+ he earns his money.
Torres will cost $14.6MM if he comes in at 118 like he did last year then he’s close to earning his money.
The benefit to cost ratio projects to be higher for Torres than Verdugo so the deal does not make sense for the Yankees but would be good for Boston.
If we use career numbers not 2023 numbers then Torres comes up roughly the same since his 2023 OPS+ was very slightly higher than his career OPS+.
Verdugo’s career OPS+ is slightly higher than his 2023 OPS+ but not enough to qualify him for a $9.2MM salary. He should make roughly $5MM or less.
Also, Verdugo has trended downward since his peak in the COVID shortened season. He tends to start fast so a 60 game season was ideal. 2024 should be a 162 game season so his OPS+ is just as likely to be under 100 in 2024 as it is to be over 100 in 2024. Can’t be more league average than that!!! $9.2MM for league average when you can get it for under $1MM is a huge over pay.
One other way to compare is to add up their key stats:
BA + IP + BB rate then use SBs to break any ties
Verdugo in 2023 was .264 plus .157 Iso plus 0.060 BB rate totaling .481 5/8 sbs
Torres in 2023 wsa .273 plus .180 ISO plus 0.074 BB rate totaling .527 13/19 sbs
Torres was .046 higher in total contribution than Verdugo with 8 more sbs
Is that worth $5.4MM in pay? Yes but just barely. So once again the analysis says the benefit to cost ratio is higher on Torres. NY shouldn’t do the deal.
Your analysis is excluding something very important Positional calculation and excess salary contribution. Peraza/DJ vs Torres and Bauers/Cabrera vs Verdugo. You lose 1 war to gain 2 (not actual math but get the point)
The yankees have 2 or 3 people that could replace 2b with less of a drop off than you would gain from an outfielder with similar value. You would also gain 5 million that can get you into another tier of free agent such as instead of going after a 15M contract you can go after a 20M contract or perhaps a better reliever or depth piece.
So while torres himself is worth more .. he is worth less to the yankees than would be for the red sox and vice versa for the red sox and verdugo. Although i dont think Torres will be enough to push the Red sox into the playoffs.
All that math is also offensive only in nature, while it omits defensive value.
Dugie is a superior defender and a run saved is a run earned.
Punk for punk, why not
Gleyber is a punk now? Like the precious Verdugo? What a stupid comment.
“Verdugo, as a left-handed hitting outfielder who rarely strikes out”
93 whiffs? smh
Career 15.1 wiff rate vs a MLB average 22.6 means he rarely strikes out.
So keep him then!
> Career 15.1 wiff rate vs a
> MLB average 22.6
> means he rarely strikes out.
No.
Luis Arraez rarely strikes out.
34 K in 617 PA
@Ellis: You can’t go by his K numbers relative to the MLB average. Taking it to the extreme, if the MLB average was 80% K rate but Verdugo only struck out 50% of the time, he’d be way better than average but you couldn’t say he ‘rarely’ strikes out. MLB K rate for batters is through the roof. Verdugo might have good numbers compared to the rest of the league, but he still strikes out a lot.
The MLB average is lousy. When we’re considering 93 strikeouts a year as “rarely”, there’s something wrong.
A ~15% strikeout rate would have been good in 1985. That’s pretty darn low for any year.
@mlb1225: a 15% K rate in 1985 would have been worse than average (14.0%) for that year. This is an unwieldly link, but it shows K% over the years. 15% only became better than average (though not by much) in the late 1980s/early 1990s (excepting a period in the 1960s).
fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?pos=all&st…
That’s still not bad, however. Some of the greatest hitters of all time have had a K% above 15% as well. Mike Schmidt, Mickey Mantle, Manny Ramirez, Jeff Bagwell, Willie Stargell, Reggie Jackson, Miguel Cabrera, all struck out in over 15% of their plate appearances.
Maybe “rarely strikes out” isn’t really fitting, but he K’d 15.5% last year and 15.1% in his career.
MLB average is 22.6% so, he strikes out just about 2/3 of what most other do.
And a .750 ops. Pass unless they blow us away.
Let’s be honest. Torres really just needs to sit and become a DH. The guy is a defensive liability anywhere he takes the field, and, remains an error machine in a time mlb instructed scorers to give the benefit of the doubt and score as many errors as hits as they can.
As for Boston, they got two bat-only defensive liability DH-only types in the infield already. They don’t need a third.
I’d rather the Yankees just move Gleyber to the outfield.
Lol torres is way more valuable you guys are crazy
The contract disparity tells you that though
Gleybar to the Giants for Yaz matches up perfect
No thanks. Verdugo for Yaz seems fair though. Gleyber will be staying with the Yankees. No need for your trash!
I don’t see it, thairo is very good. Neither should be playing short
I thought Carl Yaztrzemski had passed? Cause if you’re talking about Mike Yaztrzemski, you’re gonna have to add to that deal to get Gleyber.
Gleyber not Gleybar. I only correct you on this because Gleybar doesn’t sit right with me. Gley Bar.
Stupid trade idea. Torres is a much better hitter. Just needs to learn to run the bases and field better. I’d much rather have him then Verdugo.
He’s going into his sixth full seasons in the majors. He is what he is at this point.
Torres is better then anything the Mets have going in to his 6th season!
my guess is the yanks would probably trade gleybar and more for alonso so i have to disagree.
“Torres is better then anything the Mets have going in to his 6th season!”
No, he isn’t. Torres plays two positions, 2B and SS.
Torres: career 115 OPS+, averages 3.2 WAR per 162 game season
Mets 2B, Jeff McNeil: career 121 OPS+, averages 4.6 WAR per 162 game season
Mets SS, Francisco Lindor: 117 OPS+, averages 5.7 WAR per 162 game season
Try again, buddy!
Yes sure. I’m sure Alonso is nothing but gage but good thing you took offense to a comment that wasn’t even being negative to him.
No, he isn’t. Torres plays two positions, 2B and SS.
==============================
He has a -19 DRS in 2021/22 in 1,236 IPs.. He’s not a SS.
No, he isn’t. Torres plays two positions, 2B and SS.
==============================
He has a -19 DRS in 2021/22 in 1,236 IPs.. He’s not a SS.
and Derek Jeter ended his career with negative 155 DRS yet had multiple gold gloves.and also one year where it was lower than torres combined for 2021 and 2022.. Soo what your saying is Torres is on his way to be a hall of fame gold glover? or do they need to remove SS as position for Jeter.as “.. He’s not a SS.”
Flag on the play. Then/than confusion. Five yards. Still third down.
Hego – .789 career OPS to .765 is not “much better”.
Please look at facts before typing hyperbole.
How is Torres’ defense at SS?
Good enough to be moved from shortstop to second.
Joe – Love it, you win the day!
Ha ha. Nice.
Does he ever play there now ?
Torres is a 2nd baseman, so go back to sleep! Smh.
Sorry, I don’t follow the Yankees and just assumed he was moved to 2B because the kid was an amazing defender. Just wondering if it’s passable defense at SS or terrible.
It’s terrible.
Cap – When did you start following baseball, 5 years ago?
Torres was almost EXCLUSIVELY a shortstop until they moved him to 2B in 2018.
From 2014-2016 he played all but 8 games at shortstop.
In his professional career he’s played 700 innings more at SS than 2B.
They moved him completely off shortstop this year because he sucked there, plain and simple.
“””Cap – When did you start following baseball, 5 years ago?”””
Imposible Fever, the kid was probably still in diapers 5y ago judging from multitude of posts have read by said member on just this topic.
Thought Tim and his crew cleaned up many of the trolls and kiddies awhile back. how did this obvious one get thru?
Cap – When did you start following baseball, 5 years ago?
They moved him completely off shortstop this year because he sucked there, plain and simple.
===========================
Isn’t that what Cap was saying when he said Torres was a 2B?
Joe – Look at the context please.
Not good. But you’re trading for a 2B man.
Gleyber has brain fart moments even with him being at 2B. Too many times he mentally collapsed, the bat is what helps him a ton.
This would be the start of a new curse on the Red Sox.
I thought this trade made perfect baseball sense but I am not a Yankee or Red Sox fan. Seems so far like the Sox fans like it and Yankee fans don’t. Captain obvious here to save the day.
Of course they do because Verdugo sucks! They seem to know that?
Cap – Dugie sucks so much that teams are reaching out to Breslow about acquiring him. He sucks so much that he is a GG finalist.
You’re making everyone want Dugie traded to the Yankees even more, just to see your wonderful reaction! Hahahaha!!
are u the author of this article ?
I am not, I am a little drunk and hit a doob wit some oil so I am thinking I’m a lot smarter than what I really am. No worries, it happens.
The pure joy of this suggestion is how offensive it is. I imagine myself having to root for Torres when he’s at the plate in a Sox uniform and each time I laugh out loud. I think the Sox taking the bigger money hit is enough to smooth over the straight trade. And since each is in his walk year, maybe they’ll freaking behave themselves and boost their performance, too.
It might take more than just verdugo but the money dif evens it some..that said, boston has plenty of other options both internal and external no need to help ny as they are in far greater need of and outfielder than bos is at 2b.
I don’t see this as a possibility. Torres has more value.
I agree, but it is close enough that the RS can throw in a non-premier prospect to even it out.
Yankees would be gifting their division rival their second best hitter for the red Sox’s average outfielder. Torres is part of winning, if we trade him away it better be for legit players or top100 (back end probably) prospects. I’d just keep him.
Agree. He’s also the only proven young IF the Yankees have. I don’t consider Volpe to be “proven” yet. Give me another year.
unglar – Being the “second best hitter” on the team with the 4th-lowest OBP in all of MLB is nothing to brag about son.
Only Miami, Cleveland, Detroit, ChiSox and Oakland scored fewer runs than the NYY.
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
Idk what you’re trying to say, why would trading Torres away improve the anemic offense? He’s a valuable bat, Verdugo has a higher average I guess, but I’d rather take Torres’ pop for our decidedly unreliable/unknown/inexperienced infield. You can find a Verdugo replacement, at best this would be a lateral move. Keep him.
Gleybar Torres is a pretty good, solid 2bman, who’s had to listen to himself linked in trade rumors pretty much every single year of his career.
Called being a Pro.
Trading Torres to Boston would be ridiculous. The guy would hit 35-40 homers in Boston. He’s also the only proven young IF the Yankees have. Volpe had one season, so I wouldn’t consider him to be “proven”.
Seems kind of pointless. Shouldn’t the Red Sox be rebuilding to some extent? At least for a year or 2.
What about Tyler ONeill for a Yankees relief pitcher? Looks like the Yankees have a few. Perhaps Effross.
No thanks! Nobody wants the Cardinals trashy trash. (Injured players)
I’d pass on O’Neill. Right handed hitter and he just can’t stay healthy enough.
Effross is a reliever coming off a major injury. He’s not some pot of gold waiting to be found under a rainbow.
I don’t disagree with that Joel, but there’s more control at a lower salary with Effross. The time has to come when Cashman stops making trades for more injured players.
Effross is as injured as ONeill is dude. Effross is a reliever ONeill is an everyday player.
O’Neill has 6 seasons – and only once has he eclipsed 100 games. I’ll give him credit for two everyday status seasons as 2020 was the pandemic.
But it just doesn’t make sense to trade for another injured Cardinals player even if means giving another injured player. And even less if I have more years of Effross than one year of O’Neill.
Prior to 2023 ONeill had sat on the bench more games healthy than he had missed because of injury. He sat behind Fowler because Fowler had a big contract. Even in 2023 ONeill sat on the bench numerous games while healthy. He’s been mishandled to say the least.
ONeill is not injured. Bader was injured when the Yankees traded for him. Oneill is healthy.
Joel – The Sox have been rebuilding for four years now. Rebuilding is over, Papa John Henry is finally opening his wallet and trades will be made. The woke bear has awoken.
You think the Red Sox can go from worst in their division to playoff contender next year?
I guess it’s possible.
Joel – Yes, because the foundation is there and they have a lot of money to spend.
They’ve also done it several times already.
Last place in 2020 to ALCS in 2021.
Last place in 2015 to ALDS in 2016.
Last place in 2012 to World Champions in 2013.
It’s happened before but largely depends on the offseason maneuvering of the Front Office.
Seems like they don’t really have the young talent to get back to being a contender in 2024. That pitching staff is a major question mark. Even if Sale pitches like an ace it’s questionable.
Disagree with that in many ways JoelP. Rotation as it stands has 3 holes. I’d like to see the team add a potential front end type starters.. Say spend big on Yamamoto and a veteran md rotation guy, like Sonny Gray. Hope next bello continues his mid rotation ways and Sale can bounce back to being a solid front guy in his team option (25m) for the 2025 season.
Spending say 50-55m aav salary wise on the cap there is the biggest need, not on a defensively challenged 2b, as good of a bat as he might have when the team has young kids already that can play 2b and fix known issues.
The sox already have a fearsome ‘pen, then adding multi inning weapons, like kutter crawford and Houck back to it, where they belong anyway makes it even more devistating. forget having another lefty along with bernandino, or even 1 at all. The pen the team has is truly good and other than Martin and Jensen? Young and controlled for years.
Well sure if you sign Yamamoto and Gray the team would be better. I doubt that happens.
can go from worst in their division to playoff contender next year?
======================
It is weak tea to based your analysis on what place they finished rather than what their record is.
Are the NYY out of for having finished 4th
I think the Yankees should be rebuilding a bit too. I look at the team. The Red Sox rotation isn’t a playoff rotation at all. The pen is goof. The position players are decent but not that impressive. It just doesn’t look like a very good team to me.
Red Sox haven’t been rebuilding at all. I just don’t see them being competitive anytime soon in that division.
Shouldn’t the Red Sox be rebuilding to some extent?
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It would be rebuilding. Abreu takes Verdugo’s place in RF, and next year, Yorke takes Torres’ place at 2nd.
Trading a 1 year asset for a 1 year asset isn’t rebuilding its spinning your tires.
You have to understand the process. As you say, we’d be trading one-year contracts. But so what? Rebuilding means adding more younger depth. In this case, we are replacing someone with 1 year of control for someone with 6 years of control.
That’s the very definition of rebuilding.
Same with the NYY if they replace Torres with Peraza.
It makes sense position wise. Red Sox need a 2B, Yankees need a LH OF.
But that’s where it stops. Never mind that Torres has been the better hitter, Verdugo can’t play CF, or LF at Yankee Stadium. You can sacrifice defense for Soto’s offensive, not for someone with a 98 wRC+
Yankees are better off trading the youngens for established talent. Or maybe pay off half of DJL. Judge and Cole are great but it takes more than that
best thing for the club long-term might have been to give peraza the 600 at-bats they gave to volpe. i’d be okay trading gleyber and rolling with peraza at second since they’re not winning without major additions elsewhere
IMO, I think that is the best long-term strategy. You either trade him, play him, or watch his long term value get blinded off.
For what it’s worth Baseball Trade Values has
Verdugo at 5 million
Torres at 6.9 million
So, yes, pretty close
As long as we are talking trades that won’t happen..Torres to the Mets for McNeil. Yankees get someone to play LF Mets get a little more pop in the lineup.
It’s not the worst idea of the most lopsided trade.
I would think the Sox should kick in at least a lottery type prospect to make it even.
mack – The Sox would be taking on a much bigger contract, that’s more than enough to justify the one-for-one.
Gleyber’s the better player. Especially coming off of their respective 2023 seasons. Not to say the salary difference doesn’t matter but I still feel like it’s not exactly even. I don’t think it requires a top 30 type, but something else should be thrown in.
As a RS fan, I agree. It’s close enough, but the RS would be getting the better of it.
Verdugo plus ???
It would have to be either Whitlock or Houck.
rmullig – You DO realize Breslow is calling the shots now, not Bloom … right?
bad deal all around for the Yankees.
As a Red Sox fan, I’d take this deal in a heartbeat, but there’s no way Verdugo is as productive a player as Torres. They’ve both got their warts but Torres has shown all-star potential and real dynamism. Verdugo is a defense-first platoon outfielder at best who’s been shoved into a larger role than he ought to have because reducing his playing time would have amounted to an admission that the Sox were fleeced in the Betts deal.
A fairer trade would probably be Verdugo + Duran/Rafaela/Valdez/Abreu for Torres + [Insert Reliever Here].
For what it would cost to land Gleyber, though, I don’t think it makes sense for the Sox to go after him. I’m pretty sure the game plan right now is to slide Story back over to second once Mayer’s ready for MLB, and that shouldn’t be longer than a year out. Giving up any of that list of prospects for a one-year rental whom it wouldn’t make sense to extend isn’t wise.
Torres wouldn’t get Duran or Rafael or Abreu straight-up for Torres.
Any of those three are more valuable than Torres.
I’m with you on Rafaela, though I think he’s who NY would push for. Abreu and Duran I’m not as high on and Torres has a pretty desirable profile. The market isn’t exactly saturated with power-bat second basemen that can slide to short in a pinch.
I’m not that high on either as well. But Duran’s bWAR was 2.1 in 362 PAs while Torres’ bWAR was 2.9 in 672 PAs. Torres has one year left while Duran still has 5 years left.
Joe – Completely agree about Rafaela but Duran is far better than Abreu in the long run. Abreu will eventually be the fourth outfielder. He’s a very solid slightly above average player who should clock in with an OPS+ of roughly 110. Good enough to be a cheap back-up outfielder. I see Rafaela being a 130 or greater OPS+ guy and Duran a 120 to 130 type guy. Anthony should be another 130 or more type guy when he arrives so Anthony and Rafaela are our future stars like Casas, Bello and others. That’s why OF is NOT a need for 2024. Just SPs(2), 3B, 2B, C and Lefty Reliever.
thecrocuse – No way I’d give up Duran or Rafaela for Torres. Both have more upside, especially Rafaela. Abreu for Torres is too little same as Valdez for Torres. Even Abreu and Schreiber is too little for Torres.
I’d be hesitant to move either of them, too—like I said above—but I don’t think the Yankees would trade Torres for Verdugo without one of them involved.
My stance here is basically that this trade proposal isn’t worth what it would cost to make a reality.
I feel like this would be a trade that could backfire greatly on the Yankees. Its very rare for these teams to trade together and even rarer for there to be significant pieces going both ways. Besides Cashman probably still has a bad taste in his mouth from the Adam Ottavino trade
Anthony Franco this is the stupidest trade idea I have heard of in a long time… An overpaid Punch and Judy hitter, Verdugo for an improving young slugging infielder Torres… If you were to conduct a poll on this idea the only people that would vote Yes… are Red Sox fans..
Hey New York,how aboutfor Torres we send Akil Baddoo and Wenceel Perez.
I’m not interested in taking Verdugo in a 1-1 deal for Torres. Torres is the better hitter and Yankees need to add not subtract better hitters.
And while Verdugo was a GG fielder that was in RF where Yankees already have Judge. They really need a player capable of playing CF.
There was interest from Marlins and Mariners in the past. Both teams have pitching surplus but don’t see them moving it for one year of Torres. And none of them have spare OF that would be worth trading for.
The kicker here is the significant dollar difference in expected arb cost. Gleyber is an awful defensive second baseman he makes a lot of errors has limited range he’s just not good defensively but he’s the more impactful hitter and has a little more value at second but does he have one year and 6-8 million more value that’s debatable. It’s probably moot unless the Yankees were planning on moving Verdugo to left I mean the Yankees right fielder is pretty darn good last I checked.
The Red Sox offseason should begin with doing whatever it takes to sign Yamamoto…. then after that it should be Verdugo and any minor league top prospect not named Meyer, Anthony, Teel or Rafaela. for another starting pitcher.
In think Akil Badoo, Jason Foley and a top 10 prospect trade Gleybor Torres makes sense
Please don’t! Pablo manning second with valdez for a year won’t kill you. Trading verdugo to the Yankees is kinda like trading mookie to them !
More like taking the mookie return and donating it to New York but still!
NY Yankees- Do Not Make This Trade!
Torres is a 3 WAR player and middle infielder, just turning 27, He’s one of the few Yankees who is underrated. I wouldn’t make this deal. But the organization has never really valued him, and chances are they will make a bad trade
come get India or Senzel…we woll take a SP.
No matter how this same trade is written, no thanks
I wouldn’t call Pablo Reyes a “lackluster” player. Not a slugger, but he’s a touch above average with speed, defensive versatility, contact skills and a flare for the dramatic. Take the savings on a gritty fun throwback and invest the money in pitching.
He’s also a great personality. His first homer in 2 years was a walk off grand slam. On the radio postgame interview Joe Castiglione asked if he remembered his last big league home run.
He answered “I think it was tonight.”
So good…
4 years yet to hit free agency is now considered veteran status? I’ve seen this a few time here.
This is a pretty bad trade for the Yankees. A middle infielder who played above average defense and is the top 5 offensive 2nd baseman in the game for Verdugo???? I mean the guy that wrote this is a fan of what team? Do they background check these guys. I’m calling for a deep dive on the writer!
Billy he was bad defensively at 2nd doesn’t matter which defensive metrics you subscribe to he was below average on literally every single one. He had 15 errors which is terrible one of maybe the most errors by a second baseman in the league. Advanced metrics like drs says he was -4 one of the worst second baseman statcast says he was worth -3 oaa , uzr it doesn’t matter there’s literally no defensive metrics that says he was above average defensively. The reality he’s bad defensively.
Verdugo for Torres? No thank you.
Verdugo for Clarke Schmidt? Possibly. Yanks have enough comparable young arms to let Schmidt go for an average lefty bat.
YanksPhan42 – As a Red Sox fan the Torres deal is not even close to fair so it shouldn’t happen. Schmidt would be a salary dump for Boston and a need filled for NY so that could happen and benefit both teams.
Ah, that need filled for New York isn’t going to happen with Verdugo who your Sox are obviously trying desperately to dump….middling hitter who benefits greatly from playing in Fenway…..just because he’s a lefty doesn’t mean even Cashman is that stupid……
As a Yanks fan, you should know you NEVER have enough arms and your suggestion of letting even a #4-5 starter like Schmidt go for a guy that Boston is trying to run out of town just because he’s a lefty swinger is preposterous and silly…….besides, Mr. Red Beard peach fuzz with the 6# medal chain isn’t going to like the Yankee clubhouse or rules…….
I wrote that because it was already rumored at the trade deadline last year that Cashman was considering it.
If Verdugo is a head case, I wouldn’t want him either. But these writers who are suggesting a 1-1 for Gleybor are idiots
YP
BTV has
Verdugo’s value around $5 million
Schmidt’s value at $17 million
I approve this trade.
Absolutely. I’m not even a fan of Schmidt, but 4 years of someone with a floor of a #5, and a ceiling of a good #3, is worth one year of the majority of outfielders.
Filed under: Deals that will never happen.
Just want the Yanks need…head case who is a “Richard” in the clubhouse..skips meetings, benched by Cora for his attitude..etc…for Torres…whose non chalant play in the field…lack of hustle (Cano)..horrible base runner etc…wait a minute..maybe it is a good swap…….one headache for another……..
Gleyber for Verdugo would be the most Cashman trade of all time.
I mean if you really look deeper the only reason that you would trade Torres for Verdugo is if you are ready to to turn over 2nd base to someone else. Torres doesn’t really strike out that much in fact he struck out less then Verdugo % wise last year. He’s easily the superior hitter but Torres is bad defensively and Verdugo is solid defensively.
Totally agree
I think your right Troll except Abreu is your right fielder. If he has a good spring training you put him in right. The best defensive outfield is Duran in left, Rafaela in center and Abreu in right. I have said Abreu is sneaky athletic he would get to most balls in right and with Rafaela in center he can effectively cut down some of the area in right this coupled with the speed of Duran is the best defensive outfield alignment. Rafaela has the arm for right but Abreu’s arm is better and very accurate. He had 8 of assists in right field and that happened early everyone soon learned you don’t run on that guy.
Bruin1012 – That’s completely illogical. Rafaela has the best arm. He is the best athlete. He belongs in RIght Field in Fenway. Duran is the fastest and a good fielder with a good enough arm to play Center Field. Abreu is a place holder for Anthony who is the slowest of the three future outfielders and he has the most power. He is a prototypical Left Fielder in Fenway so his place holder (Abreu) should play left field in 2024 until Anthony gets the call up to the majors.
Baseball America disagrees with you and say Rafaela’s arm is better. Also, why play a guy out of position for a year and then move him permanently to a different field later? That makes no sense. I think you over estimate Abreu’s skill. He’s a nice slightly above league average player but Anthony and Rafaela are future STAR players like Casas. Duran’s skills make him a valuable addition in Center Field because we need his speed and his 120 or better OPS+ bat. Abreu is the odd man out but an excellent fourth outfielder until 2030 when they all become free agents!!
Bruin1012 – One thing to consider is if Mayer turns out to be a bust in 2024 they could move Rafaela to SS and use Abreu in right field with Story at 3B. In that case, Abreu becomes the long term solution in right field. I don’t think Mayer will be a bust but it’s nice to have so much farm system talent it’s hard to determine who gets to play where!! It gives us hope now that the dark days of Bloom are over.
I’ll tell you something watching all the AA games I have been watching recently one thing you notice about Rafaela he is careless at that position. He makes some silly errors I don’t think he’s anything more then average and probably a bit below at the position. Story is exceptional defensively at short now that his arm is healthy if he just gets back to average offensively then he will be fine at short at least until Mayer is ready I doubt Mayer busts out completely he just might not be the star everyone hoped for and predicted.
Troll honestly I think Rafaela’s best position on the infield is probably third base
But he will probably be a high error in fielder anywhere he is. He might be good at second as well but his arm is wasted there. I don’t like his external clock at short.
“Internal”
I don’t give a rats ass what some publication says. I watched them both this year and Abreu has the best and most accurate arm. He threw out 8 guys in AAA from right field in less then 220 innings. The moved him all over the place he made no errors in right and looked solid there. Teams simply stopped running on Abreu. Go ahead and believe what you want but Rafaela is playing center it’s easily his best defensive position and Abreu’s superior arm is wasted in left.
Rafaela hasn’t been ever played right field at all as far as I know he’s a centerfielder.
I liked Roman Anthony coming into the season watched his games in Salem in 2022 and despite poor offensive numbers I though he would break out in 2023 based on his at bats and how hard he hit the ball.
In 2023 his numbers weren’t really that impressive at Salem really not much different then Miguel Bleis except the plate discipline you can see the talent in both players but Bleis got injured and they correctly promoted Anthony to High A Greenville based on underlying metrics.
Anthony blossomed there mostly because he hit an absurd amount of homers per fly ball he still didn’t hit enough fly balls and still hit a lot of ground balls and this is what needs to be watched moving forward can he hit enough fly balls to take advantage of his power or hit enough line drives to get to a high average. These are his questions moving forward.
Imo he was way underrated coming into the season but his somewhat overrated at the end of the season. He’s still easily a top 50 prospect but I think he may have some issues adjusting to AA or AAA wherever they decide to start probably AA Portland. I’d be surprised if we see him before 2025 in Boston.
Wilyer Abreu is very underrated. There was something that clicked with this guy around the beginning of June he was really a monster in AAA after that date. He still controlled the strike zone really well but he got more aggressive earlier in the count instead of what appeared he was looking for walks he looked to damage pitches early in the count. When he swings now he swings with bad intentions I also really like he hits a lot of fly balls and not many ground balls his line drive percentage is down a bit since he’s started to swing with bad intentions but that coupled with his good defense makes him a keeper. He’s going to be better then people realize.