The Mariners and Twins have lined up on one of the bigger trades of the offseason. Seattle announced the acquisition of second baseman Jorge Polanco for four players: reliever Justin Topa, starter Anthony DeSclafani and prospects Gabriel Gonzalez and Darren Bowen, as well as cash considerations. The Mariners are reportedly including $8MM to cover two-thirds of DeSclafani’s $12MM salary for the upcoming campaign.
Seattle and Minnesota have long seemed an on-paper fit for this kind of move. The M’s didn’t get much out of their second basemen last season. Opening Day starter Kolten Wong was released midway through the year. Landing Josh Rojas in the deadline deal that sent Paul Sewald to the D-Backs helped to an extent, but the position still seemed a weakness entering the offseason.
The M’s further thinned the infield with a trade sending third baseman Eugenio Suárez to Arizona. Seattle brought in non-tender candidate Luis Urías in a deal with the Red Sox to add a contact-oriented hitter to the mix. While Rojas and Urías could split time between second and third base, it’d have been risky to count on both players as regulars.
As a result, Seattle lands one of the top offensive middle infielders on the trade market. The switch-hitting Polanco has posted above-average numbers at the plate in four of the past five seasons. Since the start of the 2019 campaign, he owns a .267/.337/.458 slash in nearly 2400 plate appearances. Knee and hamstring issues bothered him early last season, but he hit at a typically solid level when healthy. Polanco connected on 14 homers over 80 games, running a .255/.335/.454 line through 343 trips to the dish.
That steady production made it an easy call for the Twins to exercise a $10.5MM option on his contract. That’s a below-market price for a quality regular. Yet even with Minnesota triggering the option, there was a general belief that he could find himself on the move this offseason. The Twins have an enviable collection of infield talent that already threatened to bump the 30-year-old Polanco from his natural position.
While Polanco was on the injured list, 24-year-old Edouard Julien mashed his way to the second base job. He hit .263/.381/.459 as a rookie to secure a spot atop Rocco Baldelli’s lineup. The Twins gave Polanco 103 innings at third base once he returned, his first action at the hot corner since 2016. With former first overall pick Royce Lewis emerging as a star down the stretch and into the postseason, that wouldn’t have been an avenue to regular playing time moving forward.
Minnesota could have used Polanco at second base while deploying Julien at designated hitter. That would have limited their flexibility to cycle other players through the DH spot while potentially pigeon-holing one of Minnesota’s more talented young hitters to a bat-only role. Polanco had some experience at shortstop early in his career, but he moved off the position because of defensive shortcomings and clearly wasn’t going to start over Carlos Correa. Minnesota also tendered arbitration contracts to utility infielders Kyle Farmer and Nick Gordon. José Miranda remains on hand as an option at the corners, while former #8 overall pick Brooks Lee could make his MLB debut in 2024.
It surely wasn’t an easy call for the front office to move on from one of their longest-tenured players. Polanco had been in the organization since signing as a 16-year-old back in 2009. He reached the big leagues before his 21st birthday and established himself as a regular by 2016. Polanco earned an All-Star nod and down-ballot MVP votes in ’19 and played a key role on four playoff teams.
The amount of infield depth nevertheless made a trade a distinct possibility. Minnesota’s pitching staff took a hit with free agent departures of Sonny Gray, Kenta Maeda and Tyler Mahle. The Twins had done very little to balance the roster, citing payroll constraints related to their expiring local broadcasting contract. Minnesota was willing to field offers on their infield surplus, although president of baseball operations Derek Falvey made clear they’d seek MLB help as part of that return.
Seattle was open to parting with both a pair of big league arms and at least one of their top minor league talents to get the deal done. Ryan Divish of the Seattle Times writes that the M’s plan to use Polanco as their primary second baseman. That could leave the lefty-hitting Rojas and the right-handed swinging Urías to share time at third base. The M’s could keep Polanco at the keystone for two years. They’ll take on this year’s $10.5MM salary and hold a $12MM option for 2025 that comes with a $750K buyout. If Polanco performs at the level the Mariners envision, they’d likely exercise that option.
The Mariners relinquish some of their pitching depth to make that happen. Topa has less name value of the two MLB players headed to Minneapolis, but he’s the more appealing trade asset. The right-hander was a key part of another excellent Seattle bullpen a year ago. Acquired from the Brewers for a minor league pitcher in what seemed an insignificant trade last winter, the righty put together a career year.
Topa, who had 17 career MLB appearances going into the season, pitched 75 times for the M’s a year ago. He worked to a 2.61 ERA across 69 innings. Topa’s 21.9% strikeout rate was a little below average, but he did an excellent job keeping the ball on the ground. Working with a 95 MPH sinker and a pair of breaking pitches in his cutter and slider, he induced worm-burners at a very strong 56.7% clip. His production increasingly earned the trust of manager Scott Servais. By year’s end, he’d picked up 23 holds and a trio of saves.
If Topa can maintain that kind of production, he’d be an asset for the Minnesota relief corps. There’s a fair bit of risk with the 6’4″ hurler. Topa will turn 33 before Opening Day and has a lengthy injury history. He had undergone two Tommy John procedures and a flexor tendon surgery during his time in Milwaukee, a major reason he hadn’t logged extended MLB action until last year.
He accrued a decent chunk of service time while on the injured list and surpassed the three-year mark a year ago. Seattle and Topa agreed to a $1.25MM salary to avoid arbitration. He’ll go through that process twice more and won’t reach free agency until after the 2026 campaign. Topa still has a pair of minor league options, so the Twins could send him to Triple-A if he struggles unexpectedly.
DeSclafani spent less than a month as a member of the Mariners. Seattle acquired the righty alongside Mitch Haniger in the trade sending Robbie Ray to the Giants just after the New Year. His inclusion in both trades is motivated in large part by finances.
The 33-year-old (34 in April) is set to make $12MM in the final season of a three-year free agent deal he inked with San Francisco. The Giants are paying half of that, sending $6MM to Seattle as part of the Ray trade. Seattle is moving that $6MM to Minnesota and including an additional $2MM. The Twins are responsible for the final $4MM on the deal.
It has been a tough couple years for DeScalfani, who was limited to five starts in 2022 before undergoing season-ending ankle surgery. Injures were again an issue last year. This time, a flexor strain in his throwing elbow ended his season in late July.
Before the arm injury, he had pitched 19 times and logged 99 2/3 innings. The nine-year veteran worked to a 4.88 ERA with a below-average 18.9% strikeout percentage. He walked fewer than 5% of opponents but he’s lost a few points off his strikeout and ground-ball numbers since his excellent 2021 campaign, when he posted a 3.17 ERA over 31 starts.
The Mariners were set to use DeSclafani in a long relief capacity. Minnesota could afford him a chance to battle for the #5 spot in the season-opening rotation. The Twins have Pablo López, Joe Ryan, Bailey Ober and Chris Paddack in the top four spots. DeSclafani and right-hander Louie Varland are the top options for the final rotation job. Whichever of those two starts the season in long relief could move into the rotation as injuries necessitate.
Gonzalez, who turned 20 this month, isn’t going to contribute at the MLB level anytime soon. He’s nevertheless arguably the headliner of the deal from Minnesota’s perspective. The right-handed hitting outfielder signed with Seattle for $1.3MM out of Venezuela during the 2021-22 international period. Baseball America recently ranked him the #5 prospect in the M’s system, while MLB Pipeline has him as the game’s #79 overall minor league talent.
Evaluators praise Gonzalez’s natural bat-to-ball skills. Those were on display in Low-A, where he hit .348/.403/.530 with a modest 13.7% strikeout rate in 335 plate appearances last year. However, Baseball America notes that Gonzalez has an extremely aggressive offensive approach that was exposed when he was promoted to High-A midseason. He struggled to a .215/.290/.387 slash while fanning at a 21.5% clip in 200 plate appearances at that level. Gonzalez walked in fewer than 7% of his plate appearances at both stops. As a below-average athlete who projects as a corner outfielder, he’ll need to improve his plate discipline to reach his potential.
Bowen, 22, was a 13th-round draftee in the 2022 draft. A product of UNC-Pembroke, he worked to a 3.88 ERA through 55 2/3 innings at Low-A in his first pro season. The 6’3″ right-hander ranked as Seattle’s #25 prospect at BA. The outlet credits him with low-mid 90s velocity and a potential above-average breaking pitch. Bowen draws praise for his athleticism but presently has below-average control, evidenced by a 10.9% walk rate in the minors.
Taking on Polanco’s contract will push Seattle’s payroll commitments into the $135MM range, as calculated by Roster Resource, depending on how much of the DeSclafani contract they’re retaining. They opened last season around $137MM. President of baseball operations Jerry Dipoto indicated early in the winter that Seattle expected to top last season’s spending and they’re now right near that mark. Minnesota’s payroll estimate drops to roughly $119MM, leaving them some flexibility to supplement the roster over the next few weeks.
Mark Feinsand of MLB.com first reported the sides were finalizing a trade sending Polanco to Seattle. Jeff Passan of ESPN confirmed an agreement was in place. Ken Rosenthal of the Athletic reported the Twins were acquiring four players, two of whom were big leaguers. Robert Murray of FanSided reported Topa’s inclusion, while Dan Hayes of the Athletic had DeSclafani’s and Gonzalez’s involvement. ESPN’s Kiley McDaniel reported the Twins were receiving Bowen and the presence of cash considerations, which Rosenthal specified were coming from Seattle’s end. Ryan Divish of the Seattle Times reported the Mariners were paying upwards of $6MM in cash considerations. Hayes and Rosenthal specified the M’s were including $8MM in cash considerations.
Images courtesy of USA Today Sports.
swanhenge
Good get Ms
DonOsbourne
Seems like a pretty reasonable move for both teams.
Big whiffa
Good move for both but twins raked ! I like polanco a lot and can’t image a scenario where twins could get a better return than that
Brettlez
What did the Twins get that was so good? A middle reliever who was a minor league signing last year, an oft injured #5 starter w 1 yr remaining, a bottom of the farm prospect, and a good not great prospect. Feels like a light return for 2 years of polanco on a reasonable contract
Big whiffa
Disco is an excellent #5 starter and filled a need. The top prospect they got just had a major breakout season, the pitchers stock is up and the reliever is a this year wild card. Quite the return for a guy every one knew you had to unload
CaptainHooks
The Twins netted $6 million in cash and opened up more at bats for Kyle Farmer, Nick Gordon and eventually, Brooks Lee. .The Twins also finally filled out a 40 man roster. Best of luck in Seattle, Jorge! Enjoy playing with Mitch Garver and Luke Raley again.
octavian8
I don’t understand the upside of Kyle Farmer getting more at bats.
twins33
If Julien can’t hit lefties, which so far he hasn’t (he also needs to be given more chances too), Farmer is a perfect platoon partner as he’s above average vs lefties (think like 115+ last year or so)
Steve(shs22)
Farmer crushes lefties
OIC2021
Naw , the Twins got taken like Liam Neeson’s wife
bullred
Polanco seems underwhelming to me but he was 77th overall by fWar in the last three years and 46th overall by offence over the same time so not a bad player to have.
just_breathe
Starting pitching please please please please
case
DeSclafani isn’t a bad bet. 4.88 ERA regularly facing the Dodgers, Rockies, Dbacks, and Padres moving to one of the better teams in the worst division in baseball. I can see a rebound to a solid #4 or 5 pitcher.
myaccount2
I like it, but I’m also scared that we traded a controllable big league pitcher.
Champ world champion Texas Rangers
Seattle always trades for Random hitters lol.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Seattle’s acquisition did not seem random at all, unlike, respectfully, your post.
Champ world champion Texas Rangers
I mean like they always make trades. More than most.
myaccount2
I do agree Jerry makes a lot of “random” trades (in the sense that you mean), but this is not one of those! Polanco has been floated as a trade target for the past 2 or so years in Mariner Land.
HeedFrodo
Jerry didn’t make this trade. The GM did.
SODOMOJO
I was just hearing on 710 that Hollander claimed this was the most laborious trade they’ve made, and that we’ve been going after Polanco for years now
myaccount2
@Heed- They work in lockstep with one another, and Jerry and Justin have said as much time and time again. Jerry has to sign off on every deal based on the hierarchy of the front office.
TheHighCheese4Me
Wish they had picked him up when he was still good! Hope he can kick the over 30 injury bug…
Libpwnr
Trading for a 31 year old middle infielder with middling at best power, severely declining speed and whom is borderline BAD at defense, is an elite trade acquisition to be sure, so I can see the allure for the Mariners here.
muskie73
Jorge Polanco is entering his age 30 season with a career slugging percentage of .446, including .454 last year when the MLB average was .414.
Polanco is not an elite acquisition but the Mariners did not give up elite talent.
myaccount2
@htrab- He doesn’t need to be elite, he just needs to help the offense be good enough to win with a very good rotation and bullpen.
Libpwnr
He’s 31 in July, and on a rapid decline. Cope with whatever pathetic cherry-picked stats you need to make yourself feel better, but don’t lie to yourself.
ayrbhoy
CwcTxRanger- this FO seemingly always make trades because unlike your Rangers team this SEA ownership group has given them very little funds to pursue FA’s to complement their 2019 Rebuilt Roster.
It is also very difficult to get FA hitters of Polanco’s pedigree to come to SEA. That cool heavy marine air off Elliott Bay really suppresses the flight of the ball. Agents and players are well aware of the fact that SEA is MLB’s hardest park for hitters (according to Statcast’s Park Factor.) It will be interesting to see how Polanco deals with hitting in this environment.
Personally I think Dipoto/Hollander have done an amazing job. They have kept their young SP’s B Miller and B Woo and improved the lineup (on paper!) despite the budget restrictions. I’m excited to see a lineup like this: 1) JP Crawford 2) Julio 3) J Polanco 4) M Garver 5) C Raleigh 6) L Raley 7) M Haniger 8) Ty France 9) Platoon of J Rojas & L Urias w Pinch hitter Dylan Moore. If SEA can add another RP or 2 this offseason the team will have a good chance to get back to the Playoffs.
SODOMOJO
Jerry is Brad Pitt, Hollander is Jonah Hill
myaccount2
He’s had two consecutive 115 OPS+ seasons, so I’m not sure I see that rapid decline offensively. Do I expect 115 OPS+ again? No. But if he hits at just a 100 OPS+ with Seattle, that’s huge for this lineup.
I don’t see anybody claiming he’s “elite” or a star or even an all-star, so I’m not sure where the “cope” is or why you seem unnecessarily angry in your comments. He’s simply a solid big league regular. Regardless, he’s better than what the M’s have trotted out there the past few years. Can you imagine if Kolten Wong hit even .200 in Seattle? They’d have been a playoff team.
Also, which non-“cherry-picked” stats show he’s on a rapid decline? Defensive ones?
ayrbhoy
Does that make Servais Phillip Seymour Hoffman and Ty France as Chris Pratt? Those two would love that!
Brettlez
He has one year remaining on his contract. The only way you get less control is by acquiring at this year’s trade deadline.
myaccount2
@Brettlez- He has a 2025 club option.
Brettlez
Desclafani does? Not true if thats who you’re talking about
myaccount2
It looked like you replied to a comment regarding Polanco because no comments in this chain mention DeSclafani (at least on desktop). This site does weird things with the comments sometimes.
myaccount2
I think I might see the intention of your comment now. Did you think DeSclafani was who my initial statement was about? I posted that before the return was updated and was only referring to our SPs under total team control, which DeSclafani is not. Castillo naturally never would have been part of this trade equation and we knew with 100% certainty that Gilbert and Kirby were staying put, so the comment was solely in reference to Woo and Miller.
revolver
At 12 million, a very affordable one.
SODOMOJO
HERE WE GO
Fred Park
So, SODOMOJO, I have been dead wrong in my predictions.
I just hope Polanco steps up and plays well for the Mariners.
Yes. HERE WE GO.
Danelboones
Good man Fred.
Crow is a dish best served cold, or something like that…
You may notice that I stopped making public predictions.
Now, I’m never wrong.
Fred Park
Danielboones, you are a literate and well-read man (or person), and I should probably just shut up and stop acting so wise all the time.
THEY LIVE!!!
I SEE DEAD PEOPLE
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Just dying to hear what Joel thinks about this trade.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Julio is going to love this trade as it brings in a buddy from the Dominican who already practices with in the offseason. I’m sure he was sad to see his Spanish speaking compadres Eugenio & Teo exit the team over the last couple months.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
I expected the Mariners to trade for Jonathan India.
acoss13
Trader Jerry is wheeling and dealing! Polanco satisfies a need for the Mariners since they needed another infielder no? I wonder what player or players are headed to Minnesota though.
HeedFrodo
Jerry didn’t make this trade. The GM did.
Domingo111
Good trade for the Mariners. They gave up some quantity but topa is an old reliever who could break down anytime soon and de scalafani seems to be cooked.
And the two prospects have some upside but both also have big flaws (command for brown and plate discipline for gonzalez) which means they could both bust.
For the twins it isn’t bad either, they get a reliever who could strengthen their 7th inning and a 6th starter or middle reliever who can eat some innings albeit not very dominantly and maybe they can fix one of those flawed prospects.
If topa gives them one good season, de scalafani gives them 80 innings at a 4.8 ERA and one of the prospects becomes a major leaguer (even only as a reliever or 4th outfielder) that trade is a win and seattle who has good major league depth in pitching and minor league depth in hitting likely won’t be hurt much if at all by the guys they gave up.
Tigers3232
@Domingo sorry I ve gotta ask, how does a 19 yr old who hit .348 at A last season lack plate discipline?
BS Meter Detector
Ha Seong Kim was my guess
KingKat
When healthy, Polanco is the better player.
The Natural
They paid a pretty good price for Polanco….but if he’s on the field, he hits.
TigersLoveCinnamon
Polanco has never been better than Kim was last year
h2oface
All-Star elected to the first team? Polanco was, at SS.
TigersLoveCinnamon
Did Polanco ever win a gold glove? Kim did, at utility. See I can do it too. Kim’s is a year long award though, kinda better cause it’s let’s inclusive
KingKat
Was talking about India but the comment section became harder to parse after that.
crazybaseballgal
India would die at TMobile. He’s got a well below league average 89 wrc+ away from Cincinnati and TMobile is second to last for hitters
Big whiffa
I like india but I agree to that to an extent. Also Sea needed to go get the best player they could add to make up for what they lost and they did a good job w that w Polanco
momTurphy
Already had Haggerty and Rojas. India might not be able to beat them both out anyway. Polanco will play.
dumper
Please dont be more than hancock!
Seamaholic
It won’t be Hancock or a major league pitcher most likely, unless a reliever. Polanco makes real money, is a poor defender, and has two years of control. He’s not worth any of that.
dumper
4 players??????
dumper
Somebody kill me.
Irishblade
This is a good trade. I hate to lose topa and Gabe Gonzalez but two years of polanco is good. Now do third base, Jerry!
Fanof29teams
Chapman
Irishblade
Too expensive for Seattle apparently
sadmarinersfan
Oh no I have a feeling we overpaid for him
SODOMOJO
Yeah, I’m scared too
acoss13
You never know, Minnesota was looking to trade Polanco and they have been trimming payroll so the damage might not be so bad for Mariners.
SODOMOJO
Topa has been named so far. We love him but he’s a middle reliever.
Cincyfan85
Your feelings are correct.
Big whiffa
Overpay but the right move.
martras
1 Middle Reliever.
1 Very back end veteran starter
1 top 10 team prospect
1 top 30 team prospect
for two years of cheap All Star Caliber 2B. Not seeing that as an overpay for Seattle.
Braves_saints_celts
Middle reliever? He had 23 holds and 3 saves, that’s a late inning set up man, and he excelled in that position as well. Both the prospects have had decent numbers to start their careers. And as far as the back end starter. That’s something that comes in handy for all teams. On the surface it does look like an overpay, and it very well may be if polonco can’t show he’s healthy enough to last the whole season, or he loses some of his punch on offense which makes him so good, which is definitely a possibility playing in Seattle. I like the trade for both teams and believe it is reasonable for both parties, but the twins have a better chance of winning this trade than the mariners in my opinion.
martras
First off… everybody gets holds. Come into a game leading, exit the game still with a lead, you get a hold. It’s not indicative of a late inning guy.
Second, the Mariners did not use him as a closer. He ranked 4th on the team in saves behind Sewald, Munoz, and Brash. Topa had a real nice season with a low ERA and nice FIP… BUT, he owned a 3.55 xFIP last year. Perfectly fine pitching in the cavernous T Mobile Park, not pretty much anywhere else. He won’t be the closer or setup guy or late inning guy in Minnesota unless there are a lot of injuries.
Third, I don’t think this is an overpay. Polanco is undervalued, and Gonzalez is overhyped IMHO, Desclafani is negative value at his salary. The Giants didn’t want him (paid to get him off the roster) and Seattle didn’t want him. As a free agent right now, he’d probably get a MiLB deal and he’s listed with negative value at BTV atm. He’s good enough insurance though. Topa’s solid because of his low cost. Bowen is a PTBNL (nothing).
SODOMOJO
I certainly don’t want to overlook Topa, because he is a fantastic pitcher, and was elevated to the 7th inning role after the Sewald deal.
Dare I say he was our most consistent reliever last year. Just, not a needed commodity on this squad. Easy to let him go.
Braves_saints_celts
I respect what you have to say. I myself like the trade a lot for both teams, but the mariners did give up more than I thought, and like I said if polonco can’t stay healthy and hitting in Seattle drops his production I can easily see the twins winning the trade. Prospects are hard to gauge. He may be over hyped, but then again he could come in one day and absolutely kill it. You never know. I like topa he pitched 75 games with a great era, Anthony might do better pitching for the twins. Who knows but again I do like the trade, but a 4-1 trade, the odds of the mariners winning that trade in total is slim if 1-2 players the twins got outperform polonco, wether that be now or in the future. The mariners got their second basemen, the twins got two prospects who may or may not perform well, but they also got a good bullpen arm and a 5th stater/swingman which is always valuable to any team. I like it, as it stands right now it’s a win win for both teams, but could also be an utter failure for both, only time will tell.
BrianStrowman9
Topa is a groundball pitcher so I don’t think that leaving T-Mobile is going to impact him quite as much as you’re insinuating. His xERA was 2.93. He only generated fly balls 16% of the time. He’d actually be a perfect guy to have in a bandbox.
Health is his thing.
BrianStrowman9
Disco has negative value because of the money he’s owed but he 1000% would’ve gotten a major league deal. Backend arms are going for $11-13 per.
Disco’s coming off an injury and subpar campaign so you’ll knock him down a bit. But that’s still going for at least $6-7MM in this market
BrianStrowman9
Well you’d think anyways.
I can’t believe Seattle had to send that much. Or if that was just to lower the prospect acquisition cost.
myaccount2
@braves_saints- All a RP needs to be credited with a hold is to come into a game with a 3 run lead or less and maintain that lead. Topa was a 6th/7th inning bridge to Brash, Munoz, and (for half a season) Sewald. Check his numbers in high leverage situations. You don’t want him as a set up man.
ayrbhoy
As far as the amount of players SEA sent to acquire Polanco you have to consider the fact that multiple teams were trying to acquire him. You also have to weigh in the fact that SEA has tried to get Polanco for 2 years now. This gives MN more leverage in the trade talks between the two teams.
myaccount2
I agree, ayrbhoy. I think we also have to consider the value that those the M’s shipped out would have provided to the team this season and in the future.
Topa’s is a good reliever, IMO. I want to make that clear, so people don’t think I’m being biased. If he were on the free agent market, my guess is his value would be something like 2/$15M. The Twins are paying this price to acquire him as a controllable asset, I suppose. Good for them, but I have no concern about the M’s patching that hole. I would consider Topa replaceable.
Since DeSclafani was only going to be an innings-eater/long reliever for us, it doesn’t bother me one bit to send him in this deal. He has neutral or negative value anyway.
No hate to Bowen, but I don’t think he’s a future big leaguer.
And if we were going to trade a top prospect, I’m glad it was Gabby Gonzalez instead of Colt Emerson, Ford, Young, Celesten, Montes, Locklear, Farmelo, etc. I’ve said for awhile that I believed Gabby is overrated a bit and was more like our 8th best prospect.
nasrd
I agree about the prospect comment. We got a solid 2B for 4 players who can be replaced. The important thing is we didn’t give up top prospects or Woo/Miller.
Braves_saints_celts
Thank you for correcting me. holds are one baseball stat I guess I wasn’t to familiar with, I always thought set up men got holds. Thanks for correcting me. Still a pretty good reliever though.
myaccount2
You’re absolutely correct–he is still a pretty good reliever. He will be missed. Luckily, the M’s are great at finding hidden gems to fill relief roles under this regime, even if just for a season (Topa, Sewald, Thornton, Steckenrider, Saucedo, Sadler, Misiewicz, Swanson, Festa, Murfee, etc.).
Brettlez
Mariners are a reliever factory. Got Topa in a trade for minor leaguer last year. Mariners do this every year and flip the players they improve.
ayrbhoy
MyAccount- I love the trade. For both teams. I completely agree with your perspective. Re: future value- the ceiling for 4 of the 5 players in this trade could have a big impact on both clubs. Obviously no-one knows how D Bowen and Gabby Gonzalez will do at the Big League Level. However I agree with you- there is a LOT of value in 3 yrs of J Topa. There were many times last year where Topa looked like THE best option out of the Pen if you needed a Pitcher to get outs and keep calm in the very biggest moments in a game. A SEA BP btw that was MLB’s best for much of that year.
DeSclafani in 2021 was also one of the best SP’s in the NL. He may not reach those heights again but that is a very high ceiling. Not to mention MN saves on Polanco’s salary and they get SEA to pay half of DeSclafani’s contract. To your point that is a very good balance of current and future value.
myaccount2
Great point about Bowen and Gonzalez. No one knows–projections don’t matter, development does. Minnesota must see something with both to think they have potential to be worth it in the long run.
And I agree with your assessment on Topa. He will be missed. If Jerry and co. weren’t so good at finding diamonds in the rough to come out of the bullpen, I would be a lot more concerned. I think if you’re a team like Minnesota, it makes sense to pay up for a guy like Topa, while the M’s need to pay up for the bat. A classic case of teams targeting positions they need and player types they don’t (or haven’t to this point–I think Emerson and Young, maybe even Peete will turn out) develop quite as well as others.
One thing I will say about DeSclafani (other than being an excess asset for us) is that while his 2021 season rocked, he is now entering his age 34 season *and* coming off injury. Guys have certainly bounced back to high levels at unexpected times, but I think expectations with him should be tempered. I think you hope he can just stay healthy to eat innings at this stage of his career.
OKBaseballFan
M’s need some offensive help, Polanco doesn’t seem like a terrible guy. Just gotta pray he doesn’t pull a Kolten Wong Mariners’s fans
ayrbhoy
Trust me as soon as Polanco has his first 0 for 4 game the morose (“same old Mariners”) SEA fanbase will be convinced Polanco is destined to fail. It’s not exactly the most optimistic fan base, they’ll be calling for Dipoto and Servais to be fired by the end of April haha.
MoneyBallJustWorks
and the Jays miss out again!!!
its_happening
Which is a good thing here.
ericl
The Jays already have multiple guys that can play second base. They don’t need Polanco.. They need a power bat
Jaysfansince92
To be fair Polanco kind of is a power bat. He has 63 HR in his last 336 games which is a little over 2 full seasons. He had a 33 HR season as well.
ericl
Still not the kind of bat that you can use for protection for Vlad. He needs someone behind him that opposing pitchers fear. That’s not Polanco. The Jays have too many second basemen as it is. Soler or Martinez make more sense for the Jays than Polanco
Jaysfansince92
I think Polanco has experience at 3rd as well. I remember reading the last time he played there for a bit he didn’t do too bad.if he played 3rd that wouldn’t preclude the Jays from picking up a DH as well. They really need 2 more bats.
It’s a moot point now though.
twins33
Polanco played 3B in the recent playoffs and he was very bad at it.
SODOMOJO
I saw that and concur, seemed like he was off his front foot and couldn’t handle going to his left. He looked like a 2b playing 3rd. Was he any good as SS back in the day?
MoneyBallJustWorks
yeah but all their 2b options are trash. a former all star is better than what they will trout out.
Jaysfansince92
Ok. My bad. Just looked the numbers up and they were not good. He hasn’t played a whole lot at 3rd, so maybe with an extended run he could do it, but that would be a fairly big risk to take.
its_happening
The rumour was dealing Manoah. As bad as Manoah was the Jays are not in a position to deal him. Polanco is also not very good at 3B, and Jays fans should come to terms with IKF being the everyday 3B.
martras
@SODOMOJO – The problem with Polanco, defensively, has always been his weak arm. The Twins forced him to shortstop because his bat would have made him an elite player if his defense could manage, but none of the coaches/managers thought Polanco was destined for the position.
To make up for his lack of arm, Polanco was pushed to be aggressive when fielding, but he’s not naturally gifted at throwing off balance so it leads to a high error rate. It’s absolutely a requirement if he’s playing on the far side of the diamond, though.
That same over-aggressive nature followed him to his techniques at 2B where his arm plays and his range is plus. Unfortunately, the error rate hasn’t dropped.
The bottom line is Polanco is a solid defensive 2B with good range and an acceptable arm, but his value is limited due to over-aggressive fielding tendencies leading to errors. He is not a passable SS or 3B. The Twins used him at 3B solely because they wanted his bat in the lineup and Lewis was too injured to play in the field.
martras
Polanco cannot cover 3B. It’s an emergency short term depth option. He doesn’t have the arm for it.
Baseball savant has an arm score of 22nd percentile (awful). His throws averaged 81mph. A good SS/3B arm should throw closer to 90mph.
barrelup
See who we gave up, but I am happy with acquiring him compared to much of the off-season.
3768902
[Jack Nicholson nodding menacingly]
mp9
Gotta be Hancock & another prospect!
marinersblue96
I don’t think Polanco would get Hancock alone much less him and another piece.
mp9
4 players going to minny
seems like Dipoto does it again Lol
marinersblue96
Gonzales is the only one that really might come back to haunt the M’s. But even then that’s 3 or 4 years down the road.
reno24
Exactly. I’m not a big Polanco fan, but I don’t think the M’s made a bad deal here. If Gonzales doesn’t pan out, the easily won this trade
Blackpink in the area
Descalfini could outproduce Polanco next year. Teins saved money and got a lot more than him.
nasrd
POLANCO is a solid 2B which was a huge hole. DeScalfini is avg for the Twins rotation but not the Mariners .
ayrbhoy
It takes talent to get talent. I’m more concerned that the SEA BP will not be able to handle the loss of 3 high leverage RPers in E Swanson, J Topa and closer P Sewald. 4 back end RP’s if you count the Diego Castillo demotion.
That is asking a lot of Matt Brash and Andres Munoz who btw has not exactly been the picture of health these past 2 yrs. At least this SEA Pitching Dev Group has proved it is one of the best FO’s in MLB at identifying and developing pitchers into high leverage RPers. The MN BP will benefit from SEA’s ability to get RPers like Topa to find THE very best versions of themselves.
SODOMOJO
I agree. The assumption on my end is Dipoto knows that identifying bullpen talent is an organizational strength. Rather than dealing all of our top prospects (which we haven’t done, we’ve definitely let go of some great talent but we’ve stayed rather protective of the farm overall), I just think Jerry and Hollander are confident in their ability to replace these guys on the cheap.
But yeah, that remains to be seen and there’s definitely a big hole in the pen as of right now
marinersblue96
Depending on what the M’s gave up I really like them acquiring Polanco.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
The thing that makes it all kind of questionable, in a way, is that Polanco was the odd man out on the Twins current roster. He had nowhere to play. Man without a country. So doesn’t that mean the Twins had no leverage in their trade talks? Because Jerry knew Falvey had to dump this guy somewhere. So then why did the Mariners have to give up four players?? Should have been able to keep Topa at least.
twins33
Whether the trades work or not, Falvey/Levine have a way of getting teams to pay more. They seem perfectly fine hanging on to players if they don’t like the return which was the case for Polanco and Kepler last year.
They got more for Arraez than people were expecting at the time.
martras
Yet few of Falvey’s trades have been significant wins.
twins33
I guess it just depends on what your definition of significant is.
I’d say getting anyone to take Donaldson is a significant win. Cruz for Ryan is a significant win to me. Arraez for Lopez has been a win win for both teams but we know the Twins have a very hard time developing pitchers so while, in my opinion, no one has lost that trade on either side (so far), getting Lopez was huge.
Petty for Gray is too early to call. I’m a Petty fanboy but getting 300 IP with a 2.90 ERA from Gray AND basically getting the pick value back was pretty big. Petty still has time to swing this their way, but he also may never have two seasons like Gray just did.
They also got Jake Odorizzi for free, but I don’t think I’d call that significant even though he did have one pretty good year.
808sAndMetsHeartbreaks
Seattle gave up 2 majors and 2 minors, holy overpay
marinersblue96
Topa has been confirmed, that’s not much. I really like him but M’s develop/find relief pitching better than most clubs.
KingKat
Depends who the 4 actually are. So far, it’s just Justin Topa.
wayneroo
DeSclafani isn’t a huge loss.
AirY0rdan
Yeah, just look at it like the 2023 rotation which was great
bag o ballz
He may or may not be, very jeckyll and
Hyde, at times absolutely unhittable and other times he can’t get a guy out. Guess it depends on what disco shows up this year post rehab
BigRedMachine
No way. You don’t know the four players the Mariners gave up. Not much there and they need a 2B. Good trade for two bullpen arms and a Minor leaguer who could be good.
RyanD44
I remember hearing Jerry Dipito on an interview discussing his strategy when building a team, and a lot of their moves have followed through to align with the strategy: he said they aren’t a team that afford to go out and pay for numerous elite bats, but instead they’d prefer to find other teams’ above average players that might be blocked or coming off a down year, and add them. From there if they can develop an elite bat or two from within – a la Julio Rodriguez, they will win a lot more games than they will lose.
They did this with Ty France from San Diego, JP Crawford from Philly, Eugenio Suarez from Cinci, now Luke Raley from TB.
It’s not a sexy strategy, but if ownership won’t let you spend, it’s about the best thing you can do.
808sAndMetsHeartbreaks
I heard that they’re trading for players roughly 54% better than the average minor leaguer
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
HAHA…uhhhh
Canuckleball
Gotta give Dipoto some credit. It seems he had some financial handcuffs put on him by ownership and it sure looks like he’s managed to keep the roster in a decently competitive position. It may not end up being everything that fans wanted but it’s not bad all things considered.
SODOMOJO
I believe we truly have one of the most competitive gms in the game. What exactly does that mean? IDK, but the man really really wants to win. He’s not a lame duck, we’ve had those.
ayrbhoy
SODO- I think you and I are in the minority in Seattle, because I also think we are very lucky to have the FO trio of Dipoto-Hollander-McKay. I also remember the disastrous moves of past FO’s.
So many Seattle fans either ignore or just don’t see how much this ownership group has affected Dipoto’s offseason plans over these past 3 yrs. I’d bet the house that Tommy LaStella, Wong and Pollock were not Dipoto’s Plan “A” going into a 2023 season. I truly believe when Dipoto layed out the plans of his 2019 rebuild he believed he was going to be allowed more $$ to spend on complimenting the core of that rebuild. He said as much in his interviews in 2019. Keep in mind, he’s not perfect, those Graveman and Sewald trades had a negative effect on clubhouse culture and in the W/L column. But no GM is w/o fault. I can’t think of a better Seattle FO
kripes-brewers
It is a strategy. If he sticks to it, at least you know what to expect. Not sure most teams really have one (Rockies a good example).
RyanD44
They are overflowing with SP, which you can never have too much of. Between Castillo, Kirby, Gilbert, Miller, Woo, Hancock, Desclafani – they have room to trade one of Miller, Woo or Hancock for a legit bat. If they want to add an elite bat, they could dangle Gilbert out there.
Someone like Woo or Hancock for Christopher Morel, and slide Morel into 2B, which is probably the only defensive position he would be acceptable at would be interesting. Problem is, the M’s said they are trying to get away from the high strikeout type bats.
The big splash I’d love to see them make is a deal for Luis Robert. It would likely take Gilbert and more, but they’d still have a top pitching staff and a very deep and dangerous lineup.
letsplaytwo
The White Sox have no intention of trading Robert.
nasrd
I would not trade Gilbert. Even for Robert
bag o ballz
The Rockies believe in their guys! Maybe they should get better guys.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
According yo Ken Rosenthal Twins are getting 4 players back. 2 ML Players. 2 minor league players. He didn’t say who the players were.
sisseton
I hear Right-hander Justin Topa is among the players going from the Seattle Mariners to the Minnesota Twins in the Jorge Polanco trade, according to sources familiar with the deal.
marinersblue96
Wonder if they may be including Desclafani. Twins needs SP as well.
Waldo29
With Descalfani going to the Twins, have to imagine the M’s are kicking in some cash also since he’s earning $12 mil – or else the minor leaguers have to be top shelf. Right?
marinersblue96
Gonzales is a top 100 prospect. He could be a major piece in 3 or 4 years.
Dotnet22
4 players for one year of Polanco? Yikes.
marinersblue96
M’s hold an option for 2025.
SODOMOJO
That I did not know. Makes more sense now for sure
KingKat
Well so far the only named player is Justin Topa so I wouldn’t get too worried about it just yet.
IronBallsMcGinty
And cash
Every-Sha-La-La-La
Apologies in advance for my one-track mind: And the Red Sox couldn’t have traded for him because??????
showmebb
They didn’t offer as much as Seattle????
ericl
Because they’re playing Vaughn Grissom at second
Every-Sha-La-La-La
But surely Polanco would be a better option, or they could have made a move before getting Grissom.
ericl
Grissom has 6 years of control & is a lot younger than Polanco. He also makes a lot less. The Red Sox have been in salary cut mode most of the off-season. Grissom saves them money.
SODOMOJO
Shoot I would rather have Vaughan Grissom than Polanco at this point. That kid is a stud in waiting. He’s raked at every level including his major league cups of coffee
YankeesBleacherCreature
RS are retooling with a couple of young players and prospects in the pipeline. The competition in the AL East remains fierce. They also need pitching. I don’t think Polanco moves the needle much for them.
Cincyfan85
Top, Gabriel Gonzalez, and DeSclafani so far.
SODOMOJO
Oof, Gabby Gonzalez is a stud, rough to see him go.
However, I don’t see a Miller, a Woo or a Hancock in this trade, therefore although we gave up a good package; I’m overall pleased with what it does for the team. Hopefully we can re-sign him
showmebb
How many Millers, Woos, and Hancocks do they have?
Bookbook
3
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Let’s hope it’s ‘3rd Time Is A Charm’ when it comes to Jerry trading for a second baseman.
BrianStrowman9
Probably rather give up Hancock at this point. Think you know what you got there. Ceiling isn’t terribly high.
BrianStrowman9
Unless his velo pops back up to the high 90’s. I think Hancock w/ his current velo is probably a back end starter.
Ma4170
See a lot of comments from M’s fans about not giving up hancock, but gonzales is ranked higher and seems to have more upside.
BrianStrowman9
Hancock is safer because he’s a definite major leaguer. I just don’t think he’s anymore than a #5 guy if this is all he has in his arsenal now. Guy was routinely hitting 97 in college. I hope a surgery isn’t in his future.
SODOMOJO
I think we Mariner fans like the starting pitch depth as it is. It’s exciting to entertain trade possibilities with Woo and Miller (I agree Strowman that Emerson is more of a 3-4-5 guy best case whereas the other two have more upside)
It’s fun to imagine what we could get for our young studs, but I think we have the best pitching staff in baseball and it’s also the youngest (or in the bottom 5 for sure). I just would rather see us go into the year with all of them, unless we get a marquee or top prospect bat back.
twozero6ix
Robbie Ray gone, 2B addressed
Chills, Jerry did it again
ayrbhoy
Don’t forget that the worst DH production in MLB for 2023 has also been addressed
twozero6ix
What DH production? You mean Tommy La Stella starting opening day?
RogerForTheHall
Wow, including Gabby seems like an over pay. 20 y/o outfield prospect, just ranked #79 in MLB’s top 100 prospect list
budman3 2
Gonzalez is the key piece and he’s going to be a beast in a couple of years, IMO.
RogerForTheHall
A lotto ticket, just like Noelve Marte was to the Reds
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
@Roger Noelvi Marte was the centerpiece of that trade for the Reds. If he was a lottery ticket he was a $40 Scratch-Off not a $1 Scratch-Off.
jumps
It might be, but I don’t think it’s an obvious overpay. Maybe they’re aggressive on Polanco improving? Same could be said for Gonzalez. I think his ranking is pretty aggressive by scouts. There’s plenty of prospects who make the jump to high A mid season, do well, and then underperform the next year. It’s just as likely he falls out of the top 100 next year as he does jump into the top 30-50.
It’s not like they traded someone with Julio’s potential. Plus they were able to hold onto Woo, Miller, & Hancock. Losing Topa hurts some and maybe some innings from DeScalfani. But signing Ryne Stanek & Jakob Junis would replace all of their production.
Basically, they traded Gonzalez for 2 years of Polanco. It’s a gamble but I’d say it’s smarter and he gave up less than what some were thinking.
YourDreamGM
He didn’t do all that well in his jump to high A. Makes it even more aggressive. No chance at CF. A lot of power projection in his ranking.
nasrd
Jumps I agree with everything you said in this comment. Very well put.
solaris602
Twins collect OFs like the Padres collect shortstops. I think MIN was down to like 7 or 8 OFs on their 40-man, so they got Gonzalez in the nick of time.
ilikesports
But you know we don’t have to add him to the 40 for 2 years, right?
Bookbook
Yes, but Gonzalez is not making most top 100 lists. In fact, he’s fallen off 1 or 2, over conditioning and power concerns, which is not the ideal direction to be moving in.
Bnickles127
Love it
DarkSide830
Okay DiPoto, there you go proving me wrong.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Darkside, what was your working hypothesis up until now?? Just curio.
DarkSide830
I was puzzled by his moves and felt like they were running out of options to actually fill their holes. This goes a long way to that end.
jumps
Not a bad deal for the M’s, didn’t move any elite prospects. Maybe Gonzalez becomes an okay big leaguer but not an all-star.
Anything they lost by trading Topa & DeScal, they could get for a decent price in free agency.
But dealing DeScal likely means they’re keeping Miller and Woo and going with Castillo and their homegrown 4 behind him (which I really like). They’re smart by staying away from Cease.
ayrbhoy
I didn’t put much weight on that Dylan Cease story. Just another silly season rumor that could’ve been nothing more than just an attempt to influence the value of other trades.
LDilbert
Great move Jerry!
LDilbert
I meant Hollander, poor guy can’t catch a break
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
If this had anything to do with Hollander then they would have needed someone to run the popcorn machine in the breakroom, and I just don’t see them moving Hollander off popcorn duty.
SteveNVegas
Twins smoked them.
Next they overpay for Cease?
Wow
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Trolls make more informed comments.
BrianStrowman9
That’s a lot of talent for Polanco. Jerry thinks he can make anyone a decent reliever but that + Gonzalez & others is a nice haul for a non AS 2B.
thegreatgoodbye
So technically Robbie Ray, Topa and Gonzalez for Polanco and Haniger? Interesting
AirY0rdan
Is it just me or the AL West has made alot of additions recently…. Angels, Rangers and Mariners
dshires4
I really hate adding Gabriel Gonzalez to this deal. Polanco hasn’t been good since 2021 and Polanco is only under control guaranteed through 2024. 2025 is a club option. If he sucks and they don’t exercise it, we wasted a top 100 prospect on a poor middle infielder. Risk reward doesn’t balance for me here.
marinersfan1977
Gonzales is 5’10” 165 lbs and hasn’t played higher than
A ball. His exit veto, power and speed are all question
marks. Not anything close to a sure thing. And 2-3 years
away from the Majors.
You were so anxious to declare this trade a loser that you made
up a new phrase, “under control guaranteed” I hate to break it to you, but it’s much better to have one year with a reasonable option for a second year than it is to have the same player with two guaranteed years. Gives the team more flexibility going forward. But you managed to try to turn that into a negative.
To me this is a solid trade which seriously improves a position of need for the 2024 team while taking away one player, Justin Topa, who was going to be a contributor to the club this season.
dshires4
Reading a players height and weight means nothing to me. Cool, you parroted his online bio. The fact that he’s “not anything close to a sure thing” is also a nothing for me, because you can argue that for all prospects. At some point you assess risk of holding and watching him develop. He is one I’d have given that chance to.
Polanco has one guaranteed year of control. And then an option. The people “anxious” to defend this are arguing in favor of his team control, but doing so incorrectly. The guaranteed control is one year. You cannot twist that. This is a marginal trade that doesn’t correctly assess risk/reward of trading a top 100 prospect in the sport.
BrianStrowman9
Gonzalez is not 165lbs either. Those BBREF weights are not accurate for minor leaguers. Just an FYI
YourDreamGM
I wouldn’t be thrilled with it but it could be worse.
martras
Polanco has been good in 2022 and 2023. Just hampered by ankle surgery and recovery.
Steve(shs22)
My guess is that , since the Ms aquired DeClefiani …
The offer was Desc. , Topa , and Hancock
But was changed to Bowen and Gabby G
And the Twins couldn’t Say No. (ESPECIALLY WITH THE $ Coming back)
bigdaddyhacks
Gabby gonzo is the only one that hurts. The others are purely surplus players on the roster. Love this move.
ayrbhoy
How many prospects have looked great crushing low minor pitching only to get fooled by the better pitching in AA and AAA? He’s hardly a sure thing and at least two years away from making his debut. Besides- there are more than a few Mariners hitters like Lazaro Montes, Harry Ford, Cole Young and Colt Emerson looking good in that same Minor Lg level. You need to give talent to get it in return
Larry Bernandez 1324IM
Going to regret moving Gonzalez
dshires4
Massively.
AirY0rdan
Yeah, that possible still heck of a move by the mariners
AirY0rdan
I have a verrrry strong feeling that the Mariners will resign Polanco
dshires4
Why would they? He hasn’t been good and healthy since 2021. If he is good and healthy, there’s no evidence the ownership would invest in that. Plus he’ll be on the wrong side of 30 for that with other pressing arb players to resign.
SODOMOJO
He had 2 WAR including 14 HR’s in 80 games last year. Rather productive when he came back from the injury.
AirY0rdan
That was one paragraph of making Polanco sound trash, in my opinion he’s one of the most underated players in the game just because of his medical background, the dude is a hitting machine.
martras
Don’t need to. They have a $12MM option for next year.
BillR47
Maybe. He’s a bat first 19 year old who was moved to Everett A+ halfway thru 2023 and hit .216/.290/.387. For me its losing Topa that’ll hurt until we add to the bullpen.
AirY0rdan
If I was a mariners fan I would be happy because I know that most likely they will continue to add before Opening Day
jumps
Topa is a nice player but he’s a 33 yo reliever. Relief pitching is so volatile outside of the truly elite relievers. I mentioned it above, but Ryne Stanek I think could easily fill his production.
letsplaytwo
They have plenty of in-house candidates to plug any perceived hole in the BP..
jumps
Yeah, that’s my point. There’s plenty of options and if they had to spend money (taking out the in-house options), they could get similar production. It’s not like Topa is in his mid 20s and under control for 4+ years.
hiflew
Yeah because every low top 100 outfield prospect becomes a major league superstar.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
He’s only 20 years old. He could go any which way. Maybe he’s the next Marc Newfield. A prospect is a suspect. Said somebody or another.
DarkSide830
Gotta give to get. Gonzalez is nice, but MIL has a nice crop of youngsters and used this trade to fill a big hole.
Big whiffa
Ms can move Gonzales bc they are elite at identifying and acquiring young talent. They keep a loaded farm so might as well overpay for cease too
Larry Bernandez 1324IM
Elite?
AirY0rdan
Fellas, ya gotta just tip your cap to Diopto for pulling a hell of a series of moves, like the deal or not (which I don’t cuz its our division rival) you gotta show some respect.
ryrockak
Twins are not in the AL West
SODOMOJO
“Sigh”
AirY0rdan
I never said they were… I said the Rangers, Mariners and Angels…
yeasties
Dipoto is like that guy who constantly keeps making aggressive cuts, weaves and passes in stop and go traffic…. but you keep passing him anyways even though you’re just staying in your lane..
marinersfan1977
Dipoto turns an injured overpaid Robbie Ray into Polanco and Haniger and you diss him? WTF?
DoritosLocosTaco
I like how you say this as if Dipoto pulled off one of the greatest moves of all time. The mariners will battle the angels for third in the division, and that’s assuming both teams stay healthy.
rct
@MarinersFan1977: Please clue us in on who “overpaid” for Robbie Ray, then circle back to @yeasties analogy of a guy pulling off a bunch of moves only to end up going nowhere.
letsplaytwo
The Mariners owned the Astros last season and a very talented and young group of players nearly won the division. You could look it up!!!
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
@Doritos I’m going to assume you’re just a fan of a rival team in the division so you came here to talk smack. I get it. I do the same thing on Astros threads. But The Mariners were one game behind the Rangers & Astros at season’s end, and could have just as easily been the AL West Champs with how close & crazy it got those last two weeks. The team is better on paper for 2024 and will be right there battling for 1st all season.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Was Ray really an overpay though?? I mean, the M’s couldn’t predict he would need Tommy John after his first start of Season 2 on his contract.
DoritosLocosTaco
They finished behind the rangers and astros which is…third place. And like I said they will likely battle for a wildcard if they are healthy.
I’m not smack talking the mariners as much as I am dumbfounded by how every time dipoto makes a move the world comes out to applaud it like it was the best thing since sliced bread. These mariners trade posts turn into this dipoto circle jerk and I simply don’t understand why. This move is alright, and works out for both teams.
Bnickles127
For right now I’ll just pretend trader Jerry turned Robbie Ray into Haniger and Polanco… dude knows how to cook
SODOMOJO
Robbie Ray, Topa, Gabby and Darren Bowen
For Haniger and Polanco
I agree, we managed to get rid of the Albatross Ray contract and trade 1 of our good prospects and a middle reliever for 2 guys who will be in the opening day lineup.
jumps
Exactly, now it’s on the M’s to spend the money they saved by getting off Ray’s contract in a smart way. It doesn’t have to be this year. But as long as their starting rotation stays healthy, they’ll be in the playoff hunt all year.
BigRedMachine
Good trade. Polanco has a contract of $10.5 million for 2024 and a club option of $12 million for 2025. I like Gabriel Gonzalez but you have to give up something to get something and I like that we kept Woo, Miller, and Hancock. No one was excited about DeSclafani throwing out of the bullpen though he did add depth (his contract was $12.5 for 2024). Topa was good last year and we have yet to replace Sewald so please go spend money on a back of the bullpen reliever. Please!
Gwynning
Mariner fan in disguise? Woulda taken ya fer a Red’s guy…
BrianStrowman9
Maybe a Griffey guy?
YourDreamGM
Ginger bodybuilder
Stevil
It doesn’t surprise me at all that DeSclafani went to the Twins. His salary is in line with Polanco’s.
This is still a pretty good haul for Minnesota, though.
Gonzalez is a hit-over-power outfielder, but promising and Topa is a solid reliever. I’m actually a little surprised Seattle let him go.
But Bowen might have been Seattle’s biggest under-the-radar prospect. Twins fans should follow that name closely.
SODOMOJO
The twins needed pitching depth. They got it. And clears the way for Julien. Good deal for both teams
sisseton
There is a fairly decent amount of $$ coming back to the #MNTwins from Seattle.so even though there salaries are similar it seems like Seattle is paying a decent chunk of AD’s salary.
Stevil
The cash is likely the 750k difference between their salaries with the 2025 buyout included, or 1.5m without the buyout.
Stevil
And it appears that it is indeed a lot more than that, in the neighborhood of 6m.
Prospects, a legitimate reliever and cash…
Great deal for Minnesota. But at least Seattle got their man.
BrianStrowman9
Disco has some value to the twins as a 5th starter too. He’s a bit overpaid but I don’t think it’s a huge amount. he could prove to be useful.
Stevil
When/if healthy, DeSclafani should help Minnesota significantly. I like this deal for the Twins.
It’s perfectly okay for Seattle, too, but Seattle now has some work to do on their bullpen.
BrianStrowman9
@stevil
Agreed. I think Jerry believes the org will rework relievers and find success again though. A free agent addition makes sense but I’m not sure that’s the route he’ll go after seeing how he’s treated relievers since the deadline.
Which could work out well. Munoz and Brash could be an elite back end as it stands now. Kowar has the stuff to factor in that mix too. If SEA can work their magic on his middle inning guys…
marinersfan1977
no, it’s not a decent chunk of AD’s salary. They’re paying the difference in salaries of all the players in the deal, which is something between $750K and $1.5 million, depending on how it’s constructed
letsplaytwo
The Mariners turn mediocre relievers into quality bullpen arms. They won’t miss Topa.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Bowen is going to be a 23 year old in single A, that sounds more like a lottery ticket, scratch off variety.
CardsFan57
Seems like a decent deal for both sides to me. Polanco > DeSclafani and Topa. The two lottery tickets even it out.
BrianStrowman9
I think one could be considered a lotto ticket. Gonzalez is a real prospect.
I think looking at the deal like you did is a massive mistake. Gonzalez was the most valuable piece that they got back. He just doesn’t provide value next season as anything but a potential chip.
CardsFan57
What ranking was Gonzalez among Mariners prospects? He’s certainly not a top 100 prospect. That makes him a lottery ticket.
BrianStrowman9
#3 & baseball America has him #71 overall.
Bit more than a lotto ticket. Twins may end up using him in a trade @ the deadline for something they need, but he’s certainly the centerpiece of the return.
Echopark
Head scratcher for Twins. Yes they get a top 100 prospect but why take any of those arms and looks like they are taking on salary, too?!
sisseton
There is a fairly decent amount of $$ coming back to the #MNTwins from Seattle so they aren’t taking on salary.
BigRedMachine
How do you know money is heading back to the Twins?
twins33
Dan Hayes tweeted it (Twins reporter). Who knows what “significant” means though.
marinersfan1977
I wouldn’t call $750K a decent amount of $$$
sisseton
no but 6 mil plus is.
twins33
Dan Hayes (Twins reporter) says it’s 8 million going to the Twins
Echopark
Scratch taking on cash part. Looks like Seattle is sending some cash to Twins
YourDreamGM
Solid back rotation starter. Solid reliever can get you ground ball when needed.
martras
Bullpen help. Topa is a solid reliever.
Descalafani is insurance for Paddack/Varland not being up to the task of being part of the starting rotation, which is a very real risk.
Gonzalez is… fine. I think he’s overrated as he’s not fit for CF. Corner OF’s need to OPS and Gonzalez is going to need some adjustment to project well there.
Bowen is the bigger upside prize IMHO. Pitchers can have high walk rates or high hits allowed rates, not both, and Bowen’s WHIP looked acceptable in his first season out of college at Low-A. Maybe the Twins can get a little extra out of him and see him take a step forward.
dankyank
I’d characterize this trade as a defensible overpay for a Mariners team in win now mode. However, losing Gonzalez is going to hurt down the road.
ericl
Four players & cash for Polanco? That’s a good return for the Twins. Polanco, if he can stay healthy, can help the Mariners, but I honestly didn’t expect the Twins to get that much in return for a player coming off a down year
Seamaholic
Players can be addition by subtraction. That’s the story with DeScalfani.
martras
Gonzalez is a highly hyped prospect, but there are big warts in his game, he lacks defensive versatility, and he comes with high risk and is several years away.
Topa is a 32 year old relief pitcher.
DeSclafani didn’t have a spot in the Seattle Rotation.
Bowen is a low level prospect.
BrianStrowman9
Gonzalez has some Harold Ramírez in him with more power. Probably not looking at a star but that would definitely be useful for 6 seasons of control.
I think he’s a chip for MIN before he plays a game for the ML team though.
martras
Gonzalez is probably the backup plan for Eduardo Rodriguez.
deGrom/Langford Texas Ranger
It’s a great deal for both sides! I do think the Twins got 60% of the surplus value, but it’s a WIN win scenario. I’m glad for Mariners’ fans the team hasn’t entirely thrown the season after dumping Suarez, Kelnic, and Ray + losing Teo + their catcher Cal Raleigh.
dano62
Where is Raleigh going? They lost backup Tom Moore…
deGrom/Langford Texas Ranger
*Tom Murphy
rememberthecoop
I’d rather have Matt Brash.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Matt Brash is a Beast ! Did you see that pitch he threw to Jose Ramirez where he screwed himself into the ground flailing at it ??? Ungodly.
twins33
Seems like a Gonzalez for Polanco trade to me. That’s the only part of the trade I like. Polanco is underrated and he’ll be missed but he’s also been injured a lot lately and 2B is starting to get crowded.
I didn’t expect a lot since Polanco didn’t have much excess value so I’ll just be happy they got Gonzalez.
YourDreamGM
2 pitchers any mlb team would be interested in. And even a weak pitching prospect is still a pitching prospect.
twins33
The only thing DeSclafani is good at is limiting walks. He should be the 6th pitcher on the Twins, but he won’t be.
Maybe they see a bunch of things they can tweak while also increasing his velocity. I hope that’s the case because they like doing that to guys with good control.
BigRedMachine
Need another Bullpen arm or two. Never replaced Sewald. Go sign Ryan Stanek. BAD HAIR but decent stuff….
YourDreamGM
Or stop trading them away.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
I like Phil Maton better. Dude has ice in his veins, Stanek does not…must be the hair.
Ranger Danger19
They’re trying so I give them credit but Polanco is not the answer.
BigRedMachine
The who is that is possibly available??? I would take Polanco way before Jonathan India.
Ranger Danger19
That’s a good point. The Mariners found themselves in a bad market to seek offense. Jerry is trying to get it done without sacrificing the best pitching staff in the league. I think they’ll give everyone a run for their money but still come up a bit short as things stand.
SweetBabyRayKingsThickThighs
Rip DeSclafani Mariners jersey.
SODOMOJO
Jerry texted him this morning:
“We’re gonna need that hat we gave you back, sorry. HR’s orders”
AirY0rdan
I always felt bad for the fans who bought the players merch when they got flipped, they gotta get some kind of a refund
SODOMOJO
I think the “jersey guarantee” thing they’ve come out with in the last few years is genius.
AirY0rdan
oh they do i forgot, how long is that covered for
SODOMOJO
Depends on the sport and where ya buy from
AirY0rdan
o ok
Gwynning
I bet Disco goes all Chris Sale on the one he actually got
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
I have an original Jesus Montero jersey for sale if anyone is interested…rare commodity!!! Selling like hotcakes.
david letterman
Polanco is a really solid hitter.
Mariners fans should enjoy watching him hit.
George Kirby in return?
Moneyballer
If you undestand the logjam the Twins have in their infield, they won’t miss Polanco at all. Their other options are younger, cheaper and better. Having Lewis, Correa and Julien and adding a top 100 prospect a few years away, this is exactly what the Twins were looking to do. If they can get anything out of Topa and Desclafani that will be a positive for this club. It’s all add for Minnesota.
BigRedMachine
I don’t care about the log jam for the Twins. I care about the player we got in the trade and what we gave up and the need that we just filled at second base.
Moneyballer
I don’t care that you don’t care about the twins roster, it’s reality and the Twins won this deal BIGTIME from their perspective.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
We also know what the Twins track record on trades has been lately…anybody remember the Mahle trade ?
twins33
They are better at off-season trades: Arraez for Lopez, shedding Donaldson’s contract was amazing, Petty for Gray, I personally liked the trade for Maeda but can see why some wouldn’t.
The only in season trade I feel has worked out was Cruz for Ryan.
martras
Petty for Gray certainly didn’t look good year 1. It worked out in year 2 ONLY because the Twins got a playoff win. Petty’s 50/50 likely to make MLB this year at age 21.
twins33
Petty for Gray looked good in 2022. Gray had the exact same numbers in 2023 as he did in 2022 EXCEPT the fact that he suppressed HR’s at a likely unsustainable rate in 2023
His K% and walk% were almost identical to 2022. They are less than 0.5% apart. His HR rate in 2022 was normal for him. In 2023 his HR rate was freaking bonkers. Sonny’s HR rate in 2023 was 0.39 per 9. The qualified pitcher who was second: Steele with 0.73. Freaking bonkers and unsustainable.
His BAA and whip were nearly identical both years. His barrel% and exit velocities were close. His expected ERA was nearly identical. He was better at soft contact in 2022 than he was in 2023. Everything I look at was almost completely identical for his two years. The only thing is that HR rate. How likely is it that he repeats it? He did awesome but the last guy who had that type of HR rate before Sonny was Corbin Burnes.
Sonny was good both years. He was unsustainable great in year two and I’m absolutely glad it happened but this trade definitely looked good in year one. And I say that as someone who loves Petty and was upset that he was traded for an older pitcher.
martras
It doesn’t matter how good Sonny Gray was. He could have been the best pitcher on planet Earth, but if the Twins don’t win and Chase Petty works out, it’s a loss.
Petty absolutely dominated in his last 8 A+ starts as a 19 year old in 2022 while the Twins missed the playoffs.
Gray’s value was making and advancing the Twins in the playoffs, and the Twins achieved that in 2023 while Petty quietly advanced into AA after domination at A+ again as a 20 year old.
h2oface
This Twins’ fan hates trading Polanco. Teams like Houston have a great closer – Pressly – (that they robbed from the Twins in a foolish trade), and they add the best in baseball in Hader. The Twins get rid of a high value regular switch hitter for 4 players that don’t make the team noticeably better. When all 4 scraps tank and the prospect never makes it to the show………… and it doesn’t even reduce the payroll!
martras
Meh. Polanco wasn’t the highest ceiling option at 2B for the Twins anymore. Gordon, Julien, Farmer, Castro, Martin and Lee are all in the depth chart for the position.
If Falvey reinvests (like he said he was going to do), the Twins will get better through the move.
DarkSide830
Polanco was 4th on the team in OPS+ last year. If Brooks Lee can do that (probable) than this doesn’t look bad, but it’s not a given, but either way, the Twins want to compete now. The biggest value piece they got back is in A-ball. I think they should have looked for more MLB-ready talent. Topa is interesting but unproven, and Disco is a negative asset for a team who may have 5 better SP options already.
BrianStrowman9
Disagree completely. Topa just came off a nice year. Plug him into the pen. Julien & Royce Lewis are playing Polanco’s position before you even consider Brooks Lee or Willi Castro.
The Twins have another trade chip that they can use to acquire ML talent if they choose to. Prospect for ML’er deals are much easier to pull of than 1 for 1 big league swaps. Nice deal by MN. Disco isn’t bad depth to have around as the “dump” portion of the trade
Moneyballer
Could not agree with you LESS. Here’s your infield depth, Royce Lewis, Eduard Julien, Carlos Correa, Brooks Lee….which player do you think Polanco is considerably better than? None? Probably none. When you have quality options and a surplus of players, you deal the most expensive one and use the money savings elsewhere. Our offense will not miss Jorge Polanco and you just might want to scout gabby gonzalez a little, you will like what you see!
martras
Gordon, Castro, Farmer and Martin are all better defensive options than Polanco.
Julien is probably a better bat, but probably a little worse defensively.
Lee would definitely be better defensively, but it’s hard to get a good gauge on his bat yet. He’ll need to take a step forward at AAA before he gets a shot as an MLB starter, IMHO.
YourDreamGM
Topa and Desclafani wouldn’t be a bad trade for Polanco. The prospect makes it a real easy win.
BigRedMachine
Two bullpen pitchers. The Mariners resurrected Topa’s career as they do with May relievers and it was cool to see. DeSclafani had a 4.88 era last year and was going to pitch out of the Mariners bullpen. Gabriel Gonzalez certainly has potential but like all prospects will have to wait and see. The Mariners badly needed a second baseman who puts the ball and play and they got that and it completes their lineup. The Mariners got what they needed. Good trade.
YourDreamGM
Desclafani is a 4th starter when healthy. I don’t look at era as it tells me very little. Won’t argue they badly needed a 2b because this trade reeks of desperation.
bravesfan
Seems like a unbelievably awful deal for the Mariners. No true salary dump and not like your getting a guy who is a stud. Guy is a marginal player at best and you gave up a top 100 player for him? Idk… seems dumb. Twins have too many good prospects as it is
bravesfan
Correction on my part, twins don’t have an insane farm. I had then and the brewers mixed up in my head. The M’s I guess, idk
YourDreamGM
No such thing as too many good prospects
martras
Yep. Polanco is a “marginal” player who produces at a borderline All Star level when healthy.
McGrundle
I remember this guy the M’s traded to Minnesota. David Arias….or was it Ortiz? Hope this isn’t another case of that….
Eatdust666
He was initially known as David Arias due to the Mariners not being familiar with Spanish naming customs, but he preferred David Ortiz, allowing him to go by his father’s last name rather than his mother’s last name.
This one belongs to the Reds
Twins pick up another ex-Reds player. Next week they’ll sign Votto.
The Saber-toothed Superfife
Holy moley.
Good return for the Twins.
Wish the Tigers FO could.do something, anything like that.
Joe Robbins
Man the Tigers can. I can see a trade happening with my beloved Cardinals. We really need Jason Foley. I know the price would be steep. We would have both Burleson and Carlson available to the Tigers if I were the GM. I really like Andrew Navigato of the Tigers. Just in case Masyn Wynn becomes a disappointment. The Tigers have done a good job improving their farm system over time IMHO.
Rsox
DeSclafani, Topa and a pair of minor leaguers is a pretty decent haul for the Twins for player that didn’t really fit on the roster
HBan22
I definitely think that this is an overpay on the Mariners part, but they added a much needed piece in Polanco. 2B has been a black hole for them the past couple of seasons, and their lineup now looks somewhat respectable from top to bottom. I don’t think they should have needed to include Topa in this deal at the very least, and trading him away further thins out a bullpen that has lost a ton of depth over the past year (Paul Sewald, Penn Murfee, Isiah Campbell, etc) and leaves it looking a bit thin heading into next season. Their pitching staff overall has thinned out quite a bit at this point, and there will be more pressure put on their young starters to perform and stay healthy now.
Overall, I have very mixed feelings about Seattle’s offseason. I really like some of the moves they made (signing Garver, trading for Raley), dislike certain others (dumping Suarez for nothing, trading Campbell for Urias), and some of them I have mixed feelings on (the Robbie Ray trade, and this Polanco trade).
I’m not sure how much better they really are than last season at this point, and feel they could have further improved if they had just been willing to spend some more money (signing Hoskins to replace France, signing one or two more good relievers, perhaps even making a run at Snell for example)… but I give Dipoto credit for shaking things up and trying to improve the team within the limits of what he was allowed to work with money-wise. They’ll be an interesting team to watch next year.
marinersfan1977
Blake Snell? Seriously? He’s asking for $200 million. He reportedly turned down 6/150 from the Yankees. Dude has pitched 130 innings twice in an eight-year career. Does that sound like a pitcher worth breaking the bank for? That contrast is going to be bad in the early years and worse in the later year. Stay Away!
BrianStrowman9
I think Snell is ultimately going to hold onto what he thinks he’s worth for far too long and end up taking a pillow deal like Correa did the first time around.
Joe Robbins
Good for Seattle. Their fans have been upset this off season. I think we all agree that this is potential win/win deal for both teams. This is what trading is all about. Go Seattle!
cdouglas24000
I really don’t think gabby gonzo ends up being much more than a 4th OF in the bigs but the big let go was TOPA. Finding a pitcher that has a sub 2.75 ERA AND THROWS ground balls at a near 57% rate is quite the unicorn. If Polanco rakes and goes .270/25/80/80/10 I’m gucci. But he better stay healthy to give up a young and controllable TOPA.
HBan22
I thought the inclusion of Topa was where it became an overpay. DeSclafani and Gonzalez seems like it should have been pretty close to being fair for Polanco. Perhaps add another lottery ticket RP, like Carlos Vargas or Travis Kuhn. I feel like that should have been enough to get a deal done.
marinersfan1977
yet it wasn’t. I’m sure Dipoto didn’t want to include Topa, but that was the asking price and it was fair.. You do realize that Topa is one of a number o relievers who were signed to minor league deals and then thrived with Seattle. Jerry will just need do that again and they have signed quite a few relief pitchers this winter.
BrianStrowman9
I would say that SEA can but I have to caution you on that. You start thinking SEA can just make a good reliever out of nothing & then you might just get burned. I got caught up in that trap for the O’s at the deadline w/ Fuji & Flaherty.
Figured we’d turn them like Coulombe & Cano but that was not the case. SEA has signed a bunch of reclamation projects though. Hopefully they can fix up a couple more. .
HalosHeavenJJ
It is always fun reading the comments. It reads like a mystery novel at first then more information is mixed in.
Overall, seems like both teams addressed needs here.
TennVol
Hmm, Kepler to Jays for Kikucci? Both on 1yr contracts. Win win for both?
Poolhalljunkies
So kepler would dh? Jays seem set with really good outfielders
twins33
Not sure the Twins trade Kepler. They are much thinner at OF.
DarkSide830
makes no sense for MIN
benhen77
As a Twins fan, I’d take that deal.
609Collectibles
Twins won this trade in my opinion. They should seriously consider adding Snell or Montgomery, that division is ripe for the pickin’
good vibes only
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
gravel
Seems like a good trade for both teams.
Fred Park
Well, okay, NOW the Mariners are where they need to be. Whew.
LDilbert
I love it, mariners lineup looks great now.
baseballteam
The Twins and Mariners are like extras in a movie. Not involved in the main plot.
good vibes only
lol
Steve(shs22)
Remember the like 2001 Mariners with a rookie Ichiro they were kings of the baseball world. Then
Now Japan apparently is.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
I think Twins win this. Polanco isn’t anything special and M’s gave up prospects and a pitcher. They completely erased the Robbie Ray contract.
Chemo850
Someone should call the cops for a wellness check on the Marlins front office to make sure they didn’t all pass away in a plane crash because they don’t seem to have a pulse this off season. Even the Pirates and A’s have made moves.
benhen77
Twins sure have a kink for former Reds starting pitchers
LDilbert
Mariners are gonna be tough hit against and now to pitch against.
Adding three pro hitters in Garver,Polanco ,Haniger.
Deep lineup with Raley, Urias on the back end
Jp
Julio
Polanco
Garver
Raleigh
Haniger
France
Raley
Urias
How about prospects for cease.
Cease, Urias to reds for Noelvi
Then were set for the next 2-4 years
LDilbert
Actually just get Cease for Bryan Woo and a prospect and we’re set up to win l the division next 2 years
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Yeah, if everyone is healthy, and can stay healthy…(I’m looking at you Haniger, looking at you Polanco)…then this lineup is going to be NO FUN to pitch against. Then…. Sign Snell and if Gilbert and Kirby take another step forward we would basically have 4 (FOUR) #1 starters. Wouldn’t that be crazy?
This one belongs to the Reds
Hate to burst your bubble, but Noelvi Marte isn’t going anywhere for at least five years. In fact, he’s my pick for NL Rookie of the Year.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
But Noelvi & Julio are good buddies, it would be so perfect. Reds have Candelario to play 3B…see ya’ll don’t even need Marte. Won’t even miss him.
octavian8
I’m sure we can work out a deal with Julio going to Reds and you’ll never miss him.
Blackpink in the area
So the Twins traded Polanco and his salary for a top 100 prospect, a decent reliever, Descalfini for no money and another player?
I think I like this deal for the Twins. Descalfini isn’t worthless he’s an OK pitcher. They also get a reliever and a top 100 prospect for just Polanco seems like a good deal for them
Zippy the Pinhead
Nice pickup for the Ms, even at that price. Finally. And if Urias and Rojas share 3B, or maybe just compete for it, that’s fine.
xcfan
Having watched Gonzalez last year in person, Twins are getting a prospect who to me looked like he was playing hurt at times last year after his promotion. His stats dropped significantly at that time. He wears the old timey high socks and fields in RF smooth and tries to make all plays look easy.
LDilbert
Dipoto is on win now mode regardless of what the owners are committed to.
He needs to trade young prospects because he might never see them reach the majors if he can’t get to the playoffs in the next 2 years
Blackpink in the area
Players acquired
Polanco
Urias
Garver
Haniger
Raley
Players lost
Suarez
Hernandez
Kelenic
Murphy
Caballero
Gonzales
Ray
Topa
I don’t think the team got better. It got cheaper but not better.
martras
Looks pretty much like a wash to me, but with a higher floor. The Mariners got a little worse at 3B and lost a BP arm. They got better at 1B/DH/C/2B, depending on Garvers always delicate health. Plus Seattle got some open roster spots which means they can still make moves.
Blackpink in the area
Outfield is certainly worse. DH might have improved a little but they don’t have the depth they had last year.
It’s considerably cheaper so overall I think they did well with their trades. But the team doesn’t look better to me.
letsplaytwo
You’re in the minority on that, bro. The M’s will be just fine.
Blackpink in the area
1 playoff appearance in the last two decades. If I was a fan I would be hoping for more than “just fine”.
BrianStrowman9
The M’s have the most open window in that division IMO.
The Astros are top notch but they have to take a step back here soon. That might be 2025 because I still think they’re in good shape for next year. But you’re looking at potentially losing Bregman. Tucker isn’t locked up long term. I won’t ever count Verlander out but who knows how long the man can pitch at a high level. Altuve is getting up there & they don’t have much of a farm to speak of.
The M’s have a shot at this for at least a few seasons with the young pitching they have.
BrianStrowman9
That open window also assumes that they won’t be forced to slash payroll and can afford to add when the young pitching hits arbitration. Which is a big caveat.
LDilbert
It’s not quantity over quality!
The guys we let go I wish we had back was Cabby, Suarez, Murphy
Those guys were all too busy swinging at sunflower seeds that Hernández was throwing low n away. Biggest move we made to the future was letting Hernandez walk.
Suarez down year, great defense
Hernández bad all year except for one month
Kelenic battling forever inner demons
Murphy I like at 4m , should brought him back
Cabby unique skillset that I would’ve try to keep
Gonzales why?
Ray lost playoffs for us then crapped his pants this year
Topa! THEE most un interesting player on the mariners in 2023
I’ll take professional middle order hitters in Garver Polanco over Suarez n Teo
Raley> kelenic
Haniger > Murphy
Ray negative value with that bloated contract
Hollander has upgraded everywhere you look in the lineup.
Defense, depth, upside, bombs , and consistency
BillR47
Players Aquired:
Polanco
Urias
Garver
Haniger
Raley
Seby Zavala
Jackson Kowar
Carlos Vargas
Austin Voth
Players lost
Suarez
Hernandez
Kelenic
Mike Ford
Murphy
Caballero
Gonzales
Ray
Topa
The Ms did pick up 2 relievers they think will be useful in 24’, and reliever/6th starter Austin Voth. They picked up a second catcher in Seby Zavala who is good defensively and much healthier than the often injured Murphy. There is a reasonable chance Garver/Polanco/Raley/Haniger/Urais will outhit Teoscar/Kelenic/Suarez/Ford in 2024.
BillR47
I think a truth many discount when considering the Ms in 24’ is that their young core of Julio, Raleigh, Kirby, Gilbert, Miller, Woo, Munoz & Brash are more likely to improve yet than regress next year. This alone suggests the Ms will be competitive for a payoff spot.
Blackpink in the area
The Mariners were 1 game away from winning the division to the eventual champs. Seems like they should have been going for more than competitive.
JackStrawb
“Seattle announced the acquisition of second baseman Jorge Polanco for four players: reliever Justin Topa, swingman Anthony DeSclafani and prospects Gabriel Gonzalez and Darren Bowen, as well as cash considerations.”
—-Terrible phrasing. Why would you introduce ANY uncertainty regarding who received cash considerations?
TheHighCheese4Me
The M’a sent $8M to Minnesota. Further hamstringing themselves for needed upgrades. They might be better, IF every injury prone player they picked up posts 130-140 times AND performs to the best parts of the backs of their baseball cards.
Stanton and his cronies are killing this fanbase. Gotta sell soon. Just a disgrace.
LDilbert
6mil of the 8mil was from the giants for disco. So only 2 mil from their pocket
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Walk back from the ledge my friend, and take some deep breaths, it will be okay.
DeepDownSouth
Mariners will soon be getting Dylan Cease from White Sox in exchange for Polanco & Bryce Miller and or Bryan Woo. I seen this coming after their talks betwern the 2 were mentioned but was kinda blindsided by inclusion of Polanco. It maybe just be Polanco and 1 of the aforementioned Miller & Woo
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
No I’m thinking they acquire Cease and then ship him to Cincy or Baltimore for a couple pieces.
BigRedMachine
The Reds do not need Polanco. They have a surplus of infielders and are trying to trade 2B Jonathan India.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
No I’m saying the Mariners would keep Polanco but acquire Cease and then immediately flip him to you guys for Steer & Christian-Strand. (If you don’t want to give up Marte). (I stole this idea from the Dodgers about acquiring Cease then trading him.)
lee cousins
I think the M’s might have expanded on this trade. Whenever you receive one player for as many as four you could be playing Russian roulette since you only have one live round, what if you shoot yourself in the foot? My first reaction was the M’s gave away to much. Minn. needs pitching both Topa, and DeSelafani should have been enough. given Minn. really didn’t have to make this trade Jerry seems a bit over anxious and gave them all the more reasons for Minn. to do this trade.
YourDreamGM
Seems a lesser prospect could have taken the place of someone. If they told me this is what it would take I would have called them on it and seen what the other team actually offered.
YourDreamGM
D for SEA. No doubt 20 probably 30 hrs if healthy. Surplus contract value. Gave up a good but not elite prospect. Needs work. Some projection dependent. Relegated to corner. Good but not late innings reliever. Backend starter. It’s a lot to give up but nothing they can’t replace.
A for MIN. Prospect with nice floor but some ceiling. That alone would make a fair trade. A backend starter and nice more than just ground ball reliever. That alone would make a fair trade.
BigRedMachine
F for you Dream GM. You don’t realize the Mariners pitching depth and can replace the bullpen arms. They needed a solid 2b. Stop ripping on them for balancing out their team.
YourDreamGM
@BigRedMachine If you would could read and comprehend *(“nothing they can’t replace”)* you would see that I do indeed realize their pitching depth. Depth has nothing to do with trade values and trade grades. Just calling it how I see it.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
@YourDream D is a bit harsh. This was all flotsam & jetsam that the M’s bundled together. Gonzales is the only one to pause over (for a sec) but really he is just a little 20 year old outfielder in Single-A…dime a dozen. These guys were mere spare parts for the M’s, nobody irreplaceable.
YourDreamGM
@Ignorant Son-of-a-b I see a 4th 5th starter and solid bullpen arm. Even if they were just spare parts that doesn’t decrease their value, it just makes them expendable. C is a fair value trade. I think Twins received more value. Might be only 2b available and with weak free agent class M’s did what they had to do. D is a passing grade. But if I add up each sides player value I have the Twins receiving more. I am not as high on Gonzales as mlb but can see why they are. Definitely not a dime a dozen.
cdouglas24000
A lot of highly regarded publications aka baseball America and MLB PIPELINE had gabby gonzo outside the top 7 mariners prospects. I see him more as a 4th OF in the bigs with no real standout traits. He will be tested at double A by end of 2024 season. If he continues to rake, I’ll eat crow. Losing TOPA was the big loss. I think gabby and topa along should have been enough for the trade honestly.
YourDreamGM
Mariners are absolutely stacked then because pipeline has him as 79th best in all of baseball. Baseball America charges $ and I do my own evaluations so no idea where they have him.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
FWIW Joel Reuter at Bleacher Report has Gonzo at #62,
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
bleacherreport.com/articles/10103552-updated-top-1…
Zissou
This is easily an A- for the M’s.
YourDreamGM
Looking like I should have gone F. I did say if healthy. But he’s been awful. Hopefully he gets healthy and grinds out to near 20. Might have missed too much time to get all the way there.
Twins I would still stick with A. Unfortunate about DeSclafani but can’t predict his injury. Topa and prospects have been as expected.
Nosferatu Zodd
Not a bad trade. Solid reliever, 4/5 starter, top 100 prospect, and a lottery ticket.
drewtcomedy
Mariners had 0 at 2B/3B till A.
Getting Polonco for 2 years at $12M in this market really valuable for them.
Mariners lineup also has approach issues last year.
Polonco + Garver go long way to fixing that..
They’ve also kept young SP, which is core of team.
Really smart move.
riley s
Slight overpay for the M’s, but I’ll make this move every time. We needed an actual second baseman soooo bad
BrianStrowman9
I think it had to be though. 2B market is empty in free agency. The only way to get one is to trade for one.
Great for the twins in that respect.
samtb13
Now sign Snell.
slimmycito
Mariners legend Anthony DeSclafani traded.. you hate to see it..
Steve(shs22)
Boy you were waaaay off Seamaholic
As A Twins fan, I was initially suprised because I viewed Gabby Gonzalez in the same breath as Emmanuel Rodriguez maybe a year removed and a level lower. But with the conditioning concerns around Gabby maybe he actually has dropped off quite a few top 100s?
Hancock would of been a great get
But the combo of Bowen and Topa is a close value.
Polanco in a similar vein to Correa always seems to do well in the post-season
And as a 2B hopefully he doesn’t go all luis Arraez this year
And go off for like a .285 / .340 / 500
Mark.
He’s capable of 25 hrs. And at 2b that is valuable
LDilbert
Mariners need to find a way to score 5 runs a night consistently.
Adding Garver and Polanco extends the lineup. Their quality at bats will hopefully set trend for the young players on the team.
Julio Cal Raley Canzone have performers on their team they can refer to that will teach the direction of the organization. Unlike the swing and miss of Suarez and Teoscar
Shawn W.
The Reds are realizing that they can’t get an ace or a Marlins’ young pitcher for Jonathan India.
This one belongs to the Reds
I doubt they ever thought that he alone would do that.
GarryHarris
I think the Mariners fixed their team. Luis Urias and Jorge Polanco are similar players. Although they lost a great deal of time to injury, they are under-rated. The Ms improved the overall defense defense at 2B(?), 3B, LF and RF, reduced the batter SO and improved the top of the order.
I think its a bit of a gamble for the Twins. Best case, they improve the position team through addition by subtraction. That is if Edouard Julien continues to improve. They also complete the rotation if Anthony DeSclafani has a good year. He’s no replacement for Sonny Gray or even Tyler Mahle but possibly for Kenta Maeda, I’m not sure about the two MiLB projects. Worst case, everyone joins Byron Buxton on the IL.
Simm
I look at this as a trade both teams had to make (I’m sure the twins took the best offer they had).
Twins unloaded payroll from a position they could afford to trade from. Got back a starter who may not be very good but they needed a starter. He will prob have an era between 4-5.
They got a pretty good pen piece that can help them this year. While the main prospect they got has some potential. He showed ceiling and floor last year so this year likely is a big year to figure out just what he is.
Mariners needed infield help. Polanco will help them a lot if he can stay healthy. Usually the team that comes out ahead on these deals is the team that got the best player. Not only did the mariners get the best player but it was at a position of real need.
This deal did cost the mariners a decent chunk of money between what they sent to the twins and what they are paying Polanco.
Twins win the money side (perhaps the player side if Gonzalez pans out)
Mariners win getting the best player at a position of need.
As a fan I usually prefer to win getting the best player. Not the team winning the $$$ side with some upside. As a padres fan I’ve been feeling the pain of winning the $$$ with some upside all offseason.
jhomeslice
Seems like reasonable trade, I don’t see how it is an overpay by the M’s as some do. Polanco is solid, not an allstar but a legit power hitting 2b. A top 100 prospect to go along wiith a reliever who has had one good season, a starter who has been all over the place for his career, and a lower prospect does not seem like that much at all.
I think this trade will benefit the M’s more than the Twins, could benefit both, we’ll see. The key for the Twins will be Desclafani. If they get anything close to the 2019/21 version of him it will be a win for them. If they get the guy who barely pitched in 2022 and had a barely sub 5 ERA last year they will miss Polanco and likely regret it.
Wagner>Cobb
Polanco has an all star ceiling. Was one in ’19 and probably should’ve been one in ’21 as well.
CKinSTL
Agreed. Both teams are dealing spare parts and addressing their needs.
warnbeeb
I’m not a Twinkies fan, but that seems like a decent haul.
On another note, those Tiger fans who questioned the deal they just gave Colt Keith should look at what Polanco was making. If Keith can be anywhere near that productive the Tigers are in great shape.
Salzilla
This is the type of deal that makes the fantasy player in me cringe. Polanco isn’t as good as he was, so to me, the Twins win this one by a country mile.
DeepDownSouth
Polanco was acquired to be part of a deal by sending him to White Sox for Dylan Cease. Along with Polanco the White Sox will receive 2-3 prospects including Bryce Miller & Bryan Woo.
sillywabbit
Only in the White Dox dreams.
good vibes only
I sure hope not
K Kr
I’m in utter shock-Falvey and Levine FINALLY make a Terry Ryan styled, genius trade., instead of getting fleeced. Would’ve never believed they would manage to obtain a top 100 prospect for Polanco, in addition to the others.-$5m for payroll, too. Unbelievable-perhaps they’ve finally learned.
Wagner>Cobb
Good deal. Essentially the best level of bat available that was realistic to acquire, and one their lineup sorely needed. The Garver, Haniger, and Raley additions look much better now.
1. Crawford SS
2. Julio CF
3. Garver DH
4. Polanco 2B
5. Raleigh C
6. Haniger RF
7. France 1B
8. Raley LF
9. Urias/Rojas 3B
This is a very solid lineup. Health is still a bit of a question mark, but it is what it is.
Rojas should probably be the utility guy since he isn’t a great defender at 3B on a day to day basis. That will depend on Urias being able to hit though. It would be advantageous for them to sign another player to take that 3B spot so Rojas and Urias can both help from the bench. They aren’t signing Chapman, so maybe Eduardo Escobar or Gio Urshela could be brought in on a 1 year deal for relatively cheap. Not sure if this is defensively viable, but perhaps Rosario or Merrifield could handle 3B for a year.
GhostofJoshFields
Sick move to secure third place in the division.
muskie73
In their contention window the Mariners now control all players on the 40-man roster through the 2025 season (with the 2025 club option on Jorge Polanco). Seattle has a combined 25 years of team control over its current starting rotation of Luis Castillo, George Kirby, Logan Gilbert, Bryce Miller and Bryan Woo.
Despite a payroll cut the Mariners look forward to upcoming seasons.
drewpeacock
Another injury prone player that won’t hit over .250, super trade.
Steve(shs22)
Mariners seem to like X Twin bats:
( Polanco , Garver , Raley , JJ Hardy)
Orioles seem to love X Twin pitchers:
( kyle gibson, Yenier Cano, Danny Columbe , Tyler Wells , Cade Povich , Mike Baumann
The-Two-Germanys
J.J. Hardy?
What’s he got to do with any of this?
K Kr
Almost certain facing a 1yr deal, and while not knowing knowing what he’s after ($, or paycut true championship dreams), perfect dude for MN, if they’re just going to blatantly ignore the pitching here forth-one J.D. Martinez seems like a reasonable 1yr signee now, if he’d come up here for a year-the $5-6M free now on this Polanco trade,combined with their (Assumed smaller $10m or so piggybank left), he’d at least sell a “Few tickets.” Loved that Salano dude, but “J.D.” would sell a few tickets for the misers down there, u know. He’d fill a partial need-not perfectly, but fairly well on the one niche, given the dominos behind him in that hypo.
GarryHarris
The radio deal hurt several teams.