The Mariners and Pirates are among the teams showing interest in free agent first baseman Carlos Santana, reports Jon Heyman of the New York Post. Both Heyman and Robert Murray of FanSided write that the Brewers also have continued interest, aligning with comments from Milwaukee GM Matt Arnold at the Winter Meetings.
As with Milwaukee, Seattle and Pittsburgh are each familiar with Santana. He has played for all three as part of a 14-year MLB career spanning six clubs. The Mariners acquired the veteran switch-hitter from the Royals at the 2022 deadline. He struggled to a .192/.293/.400 line across 294 plate appearances before hitting free agency last offseason.
That led Santana to Pittsburgh on a one-year, $6.725MM free agent pact. He hit .235/.321/.412 over 393 trips to the dish. Once the Bucs fell out of contention, he was on the move for the second straight summer. Pittsburgh dealt him to Milwaukee for a rookie ball infield prospect. At the time of the trade, the Pirates and Santana each expressed openness to revisiting talks this offseason.
Santana was a decent contributor for Milwaukee down the stretch. He connected on 11 homes in 52 games, batting .249/.314/.459. He finished the season with a .240/.318/.429 line with 23 home runs in 619 plate appearances between the NL Central rivals. While his 10.5% walk rate was a career low, it still checked in above league average. Santana takes free passes and remains difficult to strike out, although he annually posts very low averages on balls in play.
That has added up to around league average offensive production for the past four seasons. That’s not especially exciting at first base, but Santana contributes more than most at the position with the glove. Defensive Runs Saved and Statcast’s Outs Above Average have continued to grade him as a plus defender even as he moves into his late-30s. Santana has also been very durable and is widely regarded as an excellent clubhouse presence (as evidenced by interest from three of his former teams).
Of that trio, Milwaukee seems the most straightforward. The Brewers don’t have an obvious answer at first base. Milwaukee acquired Jake Bauers from the Yankees and tendered him an arbitration contract, but he’s coming off a .202/.279/.413 showing in the Bronx.
Seattle and Pittsburgh have starting options at first base, although neither is coming off a great year. Ty France slumped to a .250/.337/.366 slash with below-average defensive grades. Still, France’s cumulative .285/.355/.443 showing between 2020-22 hints at a higher offensive ceiling than Santana provides at this stage of his career. The M’s signed Mitch Garver to handle the bulk of the designated hitting duties.
Pittsburgh brought in Santana’s former Milwaukee teammate Rowdy Tellez on a $3.2MM rebound flier. They re-signed Andrew McCutchen to take the DH spot. The Pirates could bump Tellez to the bench, but they’d be committing more money than they’re typically willing to first base/DH at that point. Santana is likely limited to another one-year deal but could find a similar salary to last year’s near-$7MM pact. With McCutchen, Tellez and Connor Joe ($2MM arbitration projection) all on the roster, a reunion could be a tough fit.
2 possible reunion locations.
I remember my first time listening to Abraxas too, Pirates and Mariners.
Master of the sustained note and the most recognizable and unique sounding guitarist of all time.
This other guy ? Meh.
I think we can say that Santana is winning
It’s sad that he still isn’t the first to show up when searching Carlos Santana.
What about Rob Thomas
He was actually just named as an all star by the NHL tonight.
In this market? 1 year/$20 lM to 2 years/$35M wouldn’t be insane.
Normally I’d say 1 year/$5M-$9M to 2 years/$18M-$23M but in today’s market? 1 year/$12.5M minimum to as much as 2 years/$35M.
Idk, 1yr/$10M would be the aggressive high end of what I could guess. His upside is limited, and the floor sometimes comes fast at his age.
Yeah but at 2.4 WAR…. I mean, I get that WAR value isn’t hard and fast or official, just averaged, but given how guys have been getting paid and that 2.4 WAR is still highly productive for a player of his profile and main selling points, I think anything less than $10M on a 1 year deal would be an under pay, even if he shouldn’t be signed for more than one year at a time going forward.
Defensive WAR is not paid the way offensive WAR is, which is where most of his value comes from.
If your minimum was the line on his next contract, I’d take the under, market be damned. I don’t think he’s getting double digit millions.
6. Something last year and had to sign with Pirates. I loved the signing. I seen some red flags so a fall off is more likely. I think he will be under 10m. Would set the over under at 8m. My guess 6.5 7.5 Wouldn’t want to pay the over. His defense and leadership are worth 5m as long as his bat just loses some but doesn’t fall off a cliff. Loved Santana last year. This year Luke warm.
AA is going to trade for Rowdy Tellez as part of some weird three team deal where the Pirates get nobody significant. Tellez gets DFAd a few days later, and the bucs sign Santana. That’s probably how this works out judging by the offseason so far.
Come on pirates. Bauer, turner & santana.. Overdrive of a lineup.
Seems like Bauer isn’t a option for any mlb team. Turner too expensive. Santana very much possible.
Mariners should sign him, then trade france for an outfielder. He was a better hitter than france last year.
That’s a subjective statement at best… they were both trash. But it’s not about last year, it’s projecting 2024 and I see no reason to give up on France for a largely unproductive hitter at the end of his career.
Santana had 1.7 WAR, France had 0.5.
The numbers, however, aren’t why I want santana. When he came to the mariners in 2022, he was a leader in the clubhouse and became a mentor to the younger guys, especially Julio, which I think was big for his development. France, on the other hand, always seems to be goofing off in the dugout. We’re down by 10, and he’s just smiling like he has no idea what’s going on. He never hustles and has gotten worse since we’ve acquired him, which makes me question his work ethic.
Now, clearly I can’t prove any of this, but I an getting tired of watching him.
We just signed a DH named Mitch Garver. Where would Santana play?
You weren’t arguing WAR, you were arguing hitting. France had a wRC+ of 104, Santana had a 101. The difference in WAR came down to their baserunning and defensive metrics. France projects as the better hitter going forward, and rightfully so. Signing Santana to trade France doesn’t make us better in any way.
Last year Carlos Santana led all first basemen in Defensive Runs Saved:
fieldingbible.com/drs-leaders/players?position=3
Platoon with France/DH when Garver Catches or is out of the lineup.
The Pirates did a similar move last year with Santana and Ji-Man Choi so it’s not entirely out of the question for them to carry two First Baseman on the roster.
The Brewers are the better fit. They need offense and have 1B/DH AB’s to give. Bauers is blocking anyone and can play 1B or the OF if they want him in the lineup
ds
“Signing Santana to trade France doesn’t make us better in any way.”
Doesn’t that, you know,,depend on what they trade France for?
@ignorant, you don’t sign Santana for his bat. You sign him for his glove.
Combined with the Brewers and Bucs last year he had more runs batted in than any single Pirate did
Rbi is largely a function of where you hit in the lineup, and how well the guys in front of you get on base. It’s circumstantial and team-based, and not a stat you should cite for predicting future offensive output.
Where in my comment did I predict what Santana would do next season?
Still, he had more combined RBI than any single Pirate last year and I am aware that this star is contingent on runners being on base
I am not a moron, don’t talk down to me with that attitude
I said that you wouldn’t sign him for his bat, you’d sign him for his glove.
You replied with he led the Pirates in RBIs, suggesting that someone might sign him for his bat based on his RBIs. If that isn’t your intent, that’s how I took it because I don’t see how else it’s relevant.
I then said nobody cares how many RBIs he has when they’re looking at what they should expect from him next year.
I don’t think you’re a moron, but I think we missed communication here.
TM3
“Where in my comment did I predict what Santana would do next season?
Still, he had more combined RBI than any single Pirate last year”
Then what was the purpose of your comment?
Trivia?
It’s completely rational to interpret your comment as NHG did? It’s really the best way to interpret it.
Odd, I don’t remember you being part of my conversation with Neal, but thanks for your insight
yes we miscommunicated, my apologies
Not really. NHG said his glove is the only reason to sign him. TheMan3 offered his RBI total as a counterpoint that he had a very good run-producing year in 2023. So, a glove is not the ONLY reason to sign him. Immediately NHG went into his “RBI are a bad stat, and you shouldn’t use them” post.
You couldn’t understand why someone would offer a positive offensive stat to counter a claim that his offense is not worthy of signing? You thought it was trivia? Weird.
TM3
“Odd, I don’t remember you being part of my conversation with Neal, but thanks for your insight”
Not surprising that someone who doesn’t understand how a public comments section works, wouldn’t understand basic logic.
CC
“You couldn’t understand why someone would offer a positive offensive stat to counter a claim that his offense is not worthy of signing? You thought it was trivia? Weird.”
No. I, quite logically, thought it was an attempt to say he was a decent offensive player
Then TM3 said it was not that
That it was trivial, was my next best guess.
I do understand quite well how the public comment section works, I just wanted to share with you my thoughts which is part of this comment section
do you see the irony in my point?
TN
“do you see the irony in my point?”
Alanis, that you?
Share your thoughts
What was the point you intended to make with your comment about Santana’s RBI total?
The point was obvious but I will make it again and clearly
Santana with 2 teams combined had more RBI than any one Pirate had last year
TM3
“The point was obvious but I will make it again and clearly
Santana with 2 teams combined had more RBI than any one Pirate had last year”
That’s a trivia fact.
It’s not a point
How do people like you pass middle school?
What was the point you were attempting to make with that fact?
Or were you just throwing out random facts?
You are insulting and a jerk, sir. Your refusal to recognize RBI as an offensive stat is truly mind-blowing. His point is obvious. RBI has been used as a stat for over a century. Just because you don’t like it, big fricking whoop! You’re not that important and you’re not changing the world by insulting people who use different stats than you.
CC
“You are insulting and a jerk”
I am not harmed by this statement coming from you
“Your refusal to recognize RBI as an offensive stat is truly mind-blowing.”
Prepare to have your mind REALLY blown. I ABSOLUTELY recognize RBI has an offensive stat. How ’bout that?
“Just because you don’t like it, big fricking whoop! You’re not that important and you’re not changing the world by insulting people who use different stats than you.”
This isn’t about RBI, it’s about logic an ability to use basic reasoning at like a middle school level.
NHG stated that Santana’s value is in his glove not his bat (Not that I agree with that)
TM3 responded that Santana had more RBI than any Pirate last season
I’m trying to make sense of that response
It seems most likely that it was meant to say that Santana is a good offensive player (a statement I would be more likely to agree with than NHG’s statement)
But TM3 said that wasn’t the intent of the statement.
So what was the intent of the statement?
My only two guesses are
1) that it was an attempt to say that Santana does provide offensive value
2) that it was just some random trivia he decided to throw in
But, TM3 said there was a “point”. That implies that it was not trivia.
So, the question remains. What was the point?
Carlos Santana was the respected mentor to rookie Julio Rodriguez in 2022.
Perhaps Santana will sign in Seattle after the Mariners trade two years of Ty France to Minnesota for one year of rightfielder Max Kepler.
@muskie that’s an interesting proposition, causes me to think. Never was a Kepler fan though
How do you feel about Copernicus?
The Padres signed Nelson Cruz to make Juan Soto happy and ended up eating his contract by the trade deadline. The White Sox signed Yonder Alonso a few years back as a hope it would entice Manny Machado to sign with them, it didn’t and Alonso finished the season with the Rockies. Signing players to make other players happy rarely works out
I see London but don’t see a significant return for France. Just sign a outfielder or 1b instead of France trade.
Pirates looking for another bite of that apple? Surely he won’t be traded at the deadline again.
I always liked Carlo Santana and remember how disappointed I was when we traded him to the Indians. Especially because we could have gotten CC Sabathia as part of a bigger trade.
The Sleeper Team For Slamtana I Think Is Arizona, The Team Needs DH & 1st Base To Help Out Walker
theyre actually interested in the cause of improving, so theyll probably look at guys like justin turner, JDM, soler, teo hernandez as a potential dh before flipping the page to guys like santana
Just like it made little sense to have Santana, Cutch and Choi all on the roster last season, as you had three guys for two spots, here we are again
They’re hoping for a rebound from Tellez but bringing along Santana, too? Doesn’t make a great deal of sense, especially when you have a younger guy like Triolo who should get a look at 1st
Tired-I think that the three players you mention came on board at very different times and for different reasons,
Cherington did not have a grand plan.
They got Choi because he was decent and cheap and cost almost nothing to get to play first base.
They got Santana because Shelton wanted him as he was a good first baseman and would provide veteran leadership.
They got Cutch because Nutting wanted him and because he would be helpful and create enthusiasm and he was inexpensive as he could find no other more lucrative and better employment that late in the offseason.
Oh I agree. My thing is again the idea of “rebuild being over”. I remember the Cutch-Walker-Marte golden era. They brought in guys who augmented their play. The rebuild then meant bringing in a couple pitchers, a catcher, and a couple of power guys for the stretch run
Here, we see a great deal of scrap coming in or being talked about.
I guess I don’t quite see spending money for a season which should be announced as a launch point for contention in years ahead
The surgically repaired heal
The young guns get more experience
The young players here continue to cut their teeth
I get the idea of signing starting pitchers—someone’s got to start. I get bringing in a couple of young outfielders who have shown potential and are relatively cheap as it appears the Pirates don’t have any such answers on the farm
But bringing in Tellez and then discussing guys like Frazier, Santana and Taylor is simply a strange strategy. Another 72-75 win season ahead?
My definition of a rebuild has always been that It culminates in contention for the playoffs.
To me that is the goal of any team although maybe not for the big market teams who usually contend even sometimes in spite of themselves.
I think another poster says that it is when all of the the older established players are traded for young players or prospects.
To each their own.
But they got nothing for two good players in Marte and Bell.
I honestly do not think that the Pirates realized that the ridiculous prices for mediocre pitchers were here.
Remember that this a “rumors” site so who knows whether any speculation has any semblance of truth.
I think that they are hoping that Tellez can bring back memories of Pedro’s glory years.
In any event just adding Gonzalez and Perez are not going to cut it.Hopefully they can still augment the ML roster with some good players.
Otherwise their win total could dip back into the 60’s.
Cherington gets one more free year but if the young pitching does not take hold well in 2025 I think that him and the rest will be gone.
There’s speculation that BC will be announcing a trade during this weekend’s Piratefest,
My belief is that Gonzalez will be moved in favor of Triolo at second base, and the fact they signed Rowdy at such a cheap price, suggests they don’t have much confidence in his ability, while potentially signing Santana would also allow both to platoon at first base
Last year they had Choi and Santana to platoon but Choi got hurt and missed a good chunk of the season.
I would like to see a trade for another outfielder as Bae doesn’t hit consistently enough to pencil him into the lineup on a regular basis
Consistency was hard to come by in the middle infield last season and it’s still hard to contemplate what they may do with the glut of players there
I’d like to think you’re right about Triolo—he showed the most promise coming down the stretch—but who knows?
They really did very little to address their biggest need—starting pitching, Dream’s thoughts notwithstanding. It’s hard to imagine them forming a trade that brings a better starter than what they’ve “signed” given what they have to offer. I mean, whether it’s Bae, Joe or even Tellez, what exactly is that going to bring in return?
Santana alone would have been fine especially to platoon with Triolo perhaps. Still don’t get the Tellez signing. Apparently there is an appreciation of Vogelbach-types in the front office
According to Rumbumster and Fansided, the Bucs are also interested in Michael A Taylor
I am beginning to wonder if Connor Joe might be on his way out of town
just what they need, another player that barely hits his weight and strikes out twice as many times as he gets hits and especially under the hitting coach Andy Haines
They have always done mysterious things in the off season and this one is no different. The logic behind these deals on in this case, proposed deal, comes from out where the busses don’t run
This will be yet another season in which the guys they add either are huge busts or are gone at deadline time
Guess what I’m saying is, again, if you’ve committed to the kids leading this team forward, go all in. Just how many more wins will retreads provide?
I don’t think you “give up” on nick and trade him away. Guy recently was a top 50 prospect in MLB and did really well at all levels in the Minors.
BUT if another team is going to give you top 50 prospect value from Nick for a controllable starting pitcher well then.. kinda have to at least consider it.
I’d be more inclined to trading Jared if I could get good value out of him. Jared didn’t start doing well at the plate until about 100PAs. Nick only had about 110MLB PAs total.
But would want to keep them both and have Jared play some more 1b see how it works out.
I don’t disagree but they have a glut of middle infielders and if a trade is in the works, I imagine one will be included
Hayes and Rowdy/Joe, unless they sign Santana would have the corners
Gonzalez, Bae, Trilio and Pegs are the other infielders, to man 2 positions. And I am not even including Williams because he can’t hit ML pitching
Someone will have to go though they still have pitching needs
also Cruz, but yeah they are stacked with Middle IFs that “should be” decent at some point.
They’re using kid gloves with Cruz, as Mackey related in his latest column. I get that, as he had a serious injury but you wonder about his ability to play a position that entails a need for strong pivots
Not sure what seeing basically everyone at AAA come and play middle infield last season accomplished. Apparently very little. Castro and Marcano were shipped, and there’s still really no idea whether Peguero, Bae, Williams, Gonzales can consistently play at this level
I like Triolo but think he’s better suited for a corner position
And I’ll beat the dead horse here: I just don’t see the platoon of Tellez and Joe at 1st. No way. No how
I’d like to see Martin and Nunez get serious time with the Primary team in spring if healthy. both have pretty good power and pretty much the only true 1b prospects in the system.
Martin may have hit his wall in AAA though. Too early to make a real judgement with Nunez and he was injured much of 23
It’s somewhat odd that they gave long looks to middle infielders last season but over the past two years, have had prospective 1st basemen and outfielders on the Indy shuttle that leaves every 3 or 4 games
Agree 100%
Why not give the younger guys who play those positions a longer look here instead of signing cast-offs
This team isn’t going anywhere this year. Why not give the kids a shot? And yes, at the very least, give them a long look in Bradenton
From the other Carlos Santana’s “Smooth” as a summary of the Mariners off-season:
“make it real/
Or else forget about it”
I’d love the Marlins to sign him to platoon w/ Bell at DH/1B.
The guy just wins and foes pretty decent in performing. plus what he brings to the table in helping and teaching young guys is immeasurable. Will grab young guys and take them out to the field to work on their game.
Pirates should pass at this point. Either go for a bigger name (yeah right) or role the dice on what you already paid for.
If the Mariners were doing any more than due diligence, I would be very surprised. This is just another “slow news day:” as is usual this time of year.
But it is January finally, so things will begin to pick up soon.
Go Mariners!
“Once burned, twice wise.”
Ty France is a good hitter that had a bad year. They need to move him to third base and put Santana at first base. The Mariners are in desperate need of bats in the lineup.
In theory, because France played 3B a few years ago, that would make sense except that he now has a 1B body. It’s not Have-Another-Hoagy Vogelbach, but it’s getting there. He’s fallen apart in the last part of the year for the last few years – he looks tired. Let’s see what Driveline does for him in the spring before getting serious about Santana, and if Carlos signs somewhere else, so be it.
BREAKING: The San Francisco Giants and Seattle Mariners are in agreement on a trade that will send former Cy Young winner Robbie Ray to the Giants for outfielder Mitch Haniger and right-hander Anthony DeSclafani, sources familiar with the deal tell ESPN.
Per Heff Passan on twitter. Not yet reported on here.
Interesting that Jason Mackey and Michael McKenry put forth the idea that the Pirates would possibly pursue Trevor Bauer and/or Madison Bumgarner this morn on their podcast
Yeah, it’s idle speculation
I’d take both. Or either
Bauer has been essentially vindicated but apparently is having a difficult time removing the black spot attached to his name. Wouldn’t Pittsburgh be a good destination for Bauer to prove himself? With the blessing of grand poobah Manfred, of course
Bumgarner wouldn’t need much left in the tank to be a standout on the Pirates starting staff as it currently stands
Nice to dream. Maybe both would flop but jeez, much better than what they have now
C’mon Milwaukee. Sign Santana and show some of us fans why we should attend some games this year.