The Phillies announced that they have signed right-hander Spencer Turnbull to a contract. It’s a one-year, $2MM deal, according to Jon Heyman of the New York Post (X link). Turnbull, a client of the Boras Corporation, can also earn another $2MM in incentives.
MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz projected Turnbull to earn $2.4MM in his final season of arbitration eligibility, yet the Tigers chose to non-tender the righty in November. It is fair to assume that the clashes between Turnbull and the Tigers over service time contributed to the club’s decision moreso than his modest price tag, though Turnbull also has a checkered health history coming off what is almost three straight lost seasons.
Phillies president of baseball operations Dave Dombrowski has some familiarity with Turnbull, as Dombrowski was still running the Tigers front office when Detroit selected Turnbull in the second round of the 2014 draft. The righty battled some shoulder problems during his trip up the minor league ladder, but made his MLB debut with 16 1/3 innings in 2018 and then tossed 148 1/3 frames during the 2019 season. Despite a league-high 17 losses that year, Turnbull had decent enough peripherals that he looked like a potential building block for the rebuilding Tigers.
That potential was further realized when Turnbull posted a 3.46 ERA over 106 2/3 innings in 2020-21. He pitched well for Detroit during the COVID-shortened 2020 campaign, and then his 2021 season was highlighted by a no-hitter on May 18 of that year. Unfortunately, Turnbull made only three more appearances after his no-no before undergoing Tommy John surgery, which sidelined him for the rest of the 201 season and all of 2022.
Returning to action last year, Turnbull struggled to a 7.26 ERA over seven starts, and he didn’t pitch again the majors after May 6. He was initially optioned to the minors the next day, though that option was overwritten a week after when Turnbull was placed on the 15-day IL due to neck discomfort. The right-hander was eventually moved to the 60-day injured list and wasn’t activated until August, when Turnbull was then optioned to Triple-A.
Turnbull wasn’t pleased with the demotion because he was also dealing with foot injury at the time, and the situation was eventually resolved in November when Turnbull was awarded a full year of MLB service time. He now has five years and 20 days of acknowledged big league service time, and would’ve fallen short of the five-year mark had his appeal for more time hadn’t been granted. This would have delayed Turnbull’s eventual trip to free agency for another year, as he wouldn’t have had the necessary six full years of eligibility heading into the 2024-25 offseason, though that ended up being something of a moot point after the Tigers non-tendered him.
The 31-year-old will now look for a fresh start in Philadelphia under Dombrowski’s watch once again. Dombrowski spoke last month about how the Phillies were looking to add depth to their pitching staff, though since the Phils already have a pretty set rotation and bullpen mix, the team was having some difficulty in luring pitchers who wanted more opportunities for innings. This could explain why the Phillies opted for Turnbull, whose market was lessened given his recent injury woes.
Turnbull, Dylan Covey, Kolby Allard, Nick Nelson, and Max Castillo now project as Philadelphia’s top rotation depth options. Any of this group could also pitch in the bullpen, and Turnbull has a leg up on the others due to the guaranteed nature of his contract. Working as a reliever might also present a new career path for Turnbull to explore if starting pitching is no longer in the cards, though it still seems too early for that door to be closed.
The Voices
This is NOT a championship caliber team. Enjoy the money lusting, money obsessed, delusional, fragile malcontent bryce harper moping around after his ridiculous request for a contract extension never goes through for him.
Joe says...
They did make it to the WS with Harper. Sounds like a championship caliber team to me.
The Voices
The Nationals won their very first World Series title the very first year bryce harper was gone. Checkmate.
VonPurpleHayes
They would’ve won with Harper too. Your comments are idiotic. Harper has great postseason numbers and has been praised as a great teammate by Nationals and Phillies alike. Checkmate.
The Voices
Big Jonathan would disagree with you.
Roughed Odor
One guy didn’t like him? Must be a bad guy.
VonPurpleHayes
Yes. And the majority of people who played with Big Jonathan would have something to say about him. Fantastic closer. Not a great fella.
pinstripes17
Papelbum is a stain on the game of baseball, nobody should care what he thinks.
The Voices
I’m out of here.
gbs42
KY, don’t let the door hit you in the @$$ on the way out.
Phillls
Kentucky And your point is? Washington had multiple players who had career years that they never got anywhere close to replicating after that. They didn’t even win the division title – they only got hot at the right time in the playoffs. If Harper had been on that team, they would have won the division and swept through the postseason
Bob Sacamano 310
And if not for Kimbrel blowing 2 games, they would (SHOULD) have been in last year too. 2 years in a row
VonPurpleHayes
I don’t blame Kimbrel for those losses. Phillies bats did absolutely nothing.
Johnny Angel
You are about the only philles fan who doesn’t.
libertybell444
I blame the manager first for rolling Kimbrel out there after his first f up against the d backs. That bullpen game I would have started walker then went Sanchez then lorenzen the closed with strahm. Paying a pitcher $72 mil not to pitch in the playoffs is insane.
Then I blame kimbrel bc he stunk. The Phillies also lost that series bc they didn’t hit when it counted nor did they play fundamental baseball offensively in key spots when they knew big bats were cold. Runs are runs, get them how you can. Lastly, 4th inning or not, you pinch hit for Rojas in that spot. A single scores 2. It was too big a spot for him and post season heroes are made with more seasoned guys in that moment. Unfortunately, they did nothing to bolster their bench this year. I’d have signed Duvall and Justin Turner who can professionally hit in big spots and not turtle up.
Phillls
libertybell444 So who would you have pinch hit for Rojas (in the 4th inning, lol)? Sosa, who had exactly one at bat since October 1st? It’s not like they had a hot spare bat just sitting on the bench. Any pinch hitter had the exact same 50/50 chance to get on base or make an out as Rojas had.
People can blame Kimbrel all they want. Arizona has professional baseball players doing just what they are paid to do – get hits. Who can prove that Alvarado, Dominguez, Soto, Hoffman, or Kerkering would have gotten out of those games and not given up any runs??
libertybell444
No they didn’t, they had a greater chance than Rojas did. You could have used sosa, pache who came in in the 7th, or even Stubbs. And I agree with you that they aren’t great options, that was this team’s design flaw. But the three I mentioned gave you a better shot. It was game seven not game 1. Nothing to lose other than the NLCS.
Poolhalljunkies
Joe…remind us all..Who actually won that world series?..and doesnt “champion” relate to…winning?…no points for second place boys.
VonPurpleHayes
Agreed, but a team that gets close 2 years in a row is certainly doing something right. We can’t judge success solely on championships alone. That’s obviously the goal, but it’s tough to win the big one.
Lloyd Emerson
Actually it’s more fun hearing you complain and whine.
Braves_saints_celts
Even as a braves fan this is an absolutely ridiculous take
The Voices
They will never win a Championship as long as bryce harper is on their roster.
Phillls
Any more dumb clueless comments for us, Kentucky?
Rsox
An NL pennant and return trip to the NLCS in back-to-back seasons says they are doing something right
The Voices
bryce harper is a curse. he even lives in Haddonfield. The Phillies (or any other team) will NEVER win a World Series with bryce harper on their roster. Remember that. he will never be a champion.
kabphillie
Did Bryce kill your puppy? I can’t image any other reason why you hate him so much. And the Phillies for that matter.
cpdpoet
It’s similar to “trump derrangement” apparently?
kje76
Wait – now you object to the guy because he lives in Haddonfield??? Why the hate for Harper and why the hate for Haddonfield?
BoJuBi
What did Bryce Harper do to you for this level of hate?
Boxscore
Harper must have pissed in the guys bowl of Cherrios. That Bryce what a character…
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Troll post again.
Phillies are a team in the mix to win it all.
If I was Phillies owner, I might give Harper a new car or something for coming back from rehab so soon, but I would not offer a contract extension.
Harper is well paid to be a 1B and maybe DH in future. Not whiny to ask for more, just not justified. When the season starts, he’ll do his job.
The Voices
You never answered about the tens of millions of women who still have a huge crush on Trevor, Manny.
Braves_saints_celts
Stay on topic moron.
Rsox
Are you one of them?
The Voices
Be quiet, you nobody.
Braves_saints_celts
Says the person named Kentucky, one of the most irrelevant states out there.
The Voices
Tell that to Depp, tell that to Cruise, tell that to Ohtani.
VonPurpleHayes
Ohtani is from Kentucky?
gbs42
KY, you never answered the question about what makes you think tens of millions of women have a huge crush on Bauer.
cpdpoet
Given his contract, he may have the ability to purchase a good bit of it?
Rsox
About 6.6 thousand miles in the wrong direction
mlb fan
“Harper is well paid”…Boras gets top players their money but often makes his clients look foolish and self centered like Bryce Harper asking for an extension while in the middle of a 13 year deal. And then there was that time(2015 I believe)that the Mets are CRUISING towards the NL playoffs and late in the season Boras puts the Mets on full blast, saying Matt Harvey needs to stop pitching because he’s pitching too much after Tommy John. If Boras had a problem with Harvey’s usage he should have said so in the spring or very early season, not when they look like World Series favorites late in the year with one of the best pitching staffs ever assembled.
mlb fan
“Not a championship caliber”…And I’m sure you’ll consider the Atlanta Braves a “championship” caliber team, even though the Phillies beat them head to head in the NL playoffs two str8 years? I’m not a Phillies fan, per se, but it’s easy to see the Phillies are at WORST, the NL’s 4th best team and quite possibly the 3rd best.
htbnm57
Cracks me up when teams sign AAAA depth for Spring Training and people overreact because they didn’t sign a Cy Young winner.
kje76
EVERY year. Without fail. It’s ridiculous. There are three groups of free agents – the top shelfers, the decent major leaguers, and the roster filler guys.
Signing a roster filler is not somehow annointing them the next coming of anything, it’s filling out the Spring Training lineup and possibly hitting on a lottery ticket.
FSF
Turnbull is a good man, -Michael Corleone
SportsFan0000
What a dumb comment on an injured p layer
Gwynning
GREAT signing Philly, I’m jelly.
Simm
Yeah, he seemed like a good dude to take a low risk on. Win win for the Phillies.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
This is the type of guy Rays and Dodgers sign and see flourish.
This is also an owner with connections to Boras.
Simm
We shall see what Ruben can do with the padres young staff. King said at camp today that he reached out to Kluber right after the trade. Kluber told him he wouldn’t have two cy young’s without Ruben.
We could see the padres being mentioned in that group soon enough.
padrepapi
I really like the unheralded options the Padres will likely be opening the year fighting for the 4th and 5th spots. I’m definitely excited to see what Ruben can do helping these young blossom.
Avila looked really good his last couple of starts. I had kind of written him off as ever being a starter for the club but that changed seeing him with more experience under his belt. Waldron looked rough when he debuted but after using his knuckleball more, the results improved to the point where he looks like a perfectly good 6th or 7th starter.
That said I think Randy Vasquez and Jhony Brito are pretty great additions as the 2nd tier pieces in the Soto trade.
I couldn’t bare chime in yesterday’s discussion where someone was praising the likes of Lance Lynn (11m) while saying Vasquez and Brito are crap.
Lynn gave up 44 HR’s in 183 IP. The two rookies combined to give up 19 HR in 128 IP. Here is what big leaguers hit off those arms last year:
Lance Lynn .259/.328/.484
Randy Vasquez .211/.315/.366
Jhony Brito .244/.307/.435
It was just baffling to me that a 36 year old getting rocked and costing 11m is a more appealing starting option than two young arms that had success pitching in the AL East.
So put me in the boat that hopes the team using the remaining financial resources on the offense. The other arms who could also getting starts in 2024 are fairly notable in Thorpe, Irate and Mazur.
Consider me cautiously optimistic about the 2024 staff. I hope they pitch the kids and avoid adding Syndergaard.
JackStrawb
@padrepapi Brito is NOT a good pitcher. 4.74 FIP, lots of luck on balls in play in 2023, horrid in AAA last season, too.
You do not want Jhony Brito pitching for you if you can help it.
Similarly, Vazquez: 4.98 FIP, bad milb numbers in 2023, 1.469 WHIP iirc.
Both are young enough to improve, but w/ their stuff significant improvement is unlikely.
Gwynning
Same papi, well said and it generally duplicates my exact feelings as well. The Pads staff is deeper than *most* people would seem to be giving credit, but that’s fine.
Gwynning
That being said, I did really want Turnbull. Turning the page is something I’ve become better at this year…
The Voices
You never answered the question, Gwynning.
Gwynning
You never asked a question, knucklehead! Don’t bother, I won’t respond to you any further. Kentucky = Troll account
The Voices
I’m out of here.
Johnny Angel
If he can’t close its meaningless.
stymeedone
Another baffling move by HARRIS. $2.4MM for a starting pitcher is a reasonable gamble. How much did he pay to take a gamble on Flaherty? $14MM?! His trades have been bad. His cuts (give aways) have been brutal.
Motor City Beach Bum
Flaherty didn’t cause problems with the Tigers last year and pitch terribly for them. Not really baffling that they cut ties with Turnbull whose injury timing seemed suspect at best. Not a team player. I’m interested to see what Fetter can do with Flaherty who actually wants to be there.
As for his trades the only screw-up was Erod and Erod gets some of that blame. Great trade to get Leonard from LAD for cash, Canha from Mil for a reliever, Malloy from Atl for Jimenez, Lee from Phil for Lorenzen and good pickups for nothing like Holton and Ibanez. Greenberg is the GM now and Harris is POBO so maybe you can spread your hate around a bit, for recent “terrible moves” like signing Keith long term. Most outlets I have read reviews from are giving the Tigers and Harris good grades for the moves they are making. Even D.D. made some horrible moves when he was in charge.
You complain every time he releases a hitter who bats .200 or a pitcher with a 7.00 ERA? I don’t get that. Sure some of those players righted the ship somewhat later but it’s not like he lost out on Babe Ruth with
How about “GO TIGERS” instead and cheer for the team! Lindys baseball mag predicts them to win the Division. Things are looking up.
GarryHarris
If you followed the Tigers, Spencer Turnbull was a good pitcher just as the rebuild seemed like it was coming together but was one of the 14 Tiger starters that suffered season ending injuries. When he returned, he played for team Spencer Turnbull and more than once caused last minute pitching reshuffle dilemmas. Most Tiger fans were happy to see him go.
TroyVan
You’ve heard of owners that manipulate service time. Well, let’s meet a player that tried the same thing. His name is Spencer Turnbull.
Not sad to see him go.
SportsFan0000
Do you work for the Tigers Front Office??
Because slamming highly popular former Detroit Tgiers starting pitcher
Spencer Turnbull is a complete line of bullsheet.
Spencer Turnbull was well liked by his teammates.
He pitched on some very bad Tigers rebuilding teams without complaints or problems.
Turnbull had to fight to get rotation time because he was not one of the “wonder boys” top young pitching draft picks seen as the future of the Tigers( Mise, Manning, Skubal etc).
Spencer Turnbull was “breaking out” in 2000-2021 and was the Detroit Tigers #1 Starter on some bad baseball teams with bad defense.
Scouts said Turnbull had even better stuff than Tigers young phenom starting pitchers at that time.
(Mise, Manning and Skubal who Turnbull pitched with in the Tigers rotation when all were healthy a few years ago).
Turnbull got hurt, required Tommy John surgery and missed the entire 2022 season on the IL.
The Tigers New Front Office, meanwhile, tried to “lowball him” in arbitration and created some tension and hard feelings (Scott Harris).
Then, the Tigers gave their bonus baby draft picks “all the time they needed” to come back from Tommy John & other surgeries (Mise, Manning, Skubal),.
But, the Detroit Tigers Front Office tried to rush Spencer Turnbull back when he was still injured and recovering from surgery and he was not ready to pitch @ the MLB level!?
Then, the Tigers Front Office tried to demote an injured player, Spencer Turnbull, to AAA against MLB Rules to save a few bucks?!
It seems to me that Scott Harris and his New Front Office completely mismanaged the RHSP Spencer Turnbull situation with the Tigers and that most likely caused bad feelings between the player and the Front Office.
I know Harris didn’t draft Turnbull (that was Dave Dombrowski who certainly knows a few things about talent and high character players because he gets it right far more than he misses on players).
Fans also loved Spencer Turnbull and he pitched like a Warrior and gave it his all with no complaints on some very bad Detroit Tigers rebuilding teams.
Poster has taken some very “cheap shots” at Spencer Turnbull that he does not deserve.
I am not related to Spencer Turnbull. I don’t know him personally and have never met him. I don’t work for his agents or anything like that.
It just pisses me off when people post completely stupid comments running quality, hardworking players down when I know for a fact that Spencer Turnbull was hard working, a nice guy that seemed to get along with everyone.
Try to find any Tigers players or fans who did not like Spencer Turnbull or did not say he gave maximum efforts always and respected his teammates and the fans?!
You won’t find any!
Here is a video of Detroit Tigers players giving Spencer Turnbull love and appreciation after he pitched a complete game no hitter for the Detroit Tigers in 2021
youtube.com/watch?v=Nt4eVO-UmRo
SportsFan0000
He was hurt and coming off major Tommy John surgery that could have ended his career if not rehabbled properly and the right length of time.
Mark Frydrych was also mismanaged by the Tigers Front Office and it ended his career badly.
Now, MLB has developed pitch counts, protocols for managing workloads, strict protocols for young HS and College draft picks not used to pitching 200-300 innings etc, and recommended rehabs for major surgeries like Tommy John.
Turnbull was hurt.
The Tigers rushed him.
He was not ready.
They tried to dump him in AAA
to manipulate arbitration and service time.
His agent called foul and stopped that BS,.
Spencer Turnbull, when healthy, had the best stuff in the Tigers rotation when he pitched along with healthy phenoms
(Mise, Manning and Skubal) according to MLB Scouts comments in the Media at the time).
youtube.com/watch?v=Nt4eVO-UmRo
GarryHarris
Yep, right, good for you.
TroyVan
I didn’t say Spencer Turnbull wasn’t a hard working player. I never said there was any dislike from his teammates or fans. What I did allude to was that he attempted to manipulate his service time by remaining on the MLB roster when he didn’t deserve to be. His season was dismal. And I disagree that he had better stuff than Skubal. Emphatically disagree with that.
Best of luck to him. I have no animosity, but he did what he did.
10centBeerNight
Good move by Dave here
CarverAndrews
An injury upside play…relax, folks. He has some talent and seemed as if things were starting to come together. Then TJ surgery, a cervical fracture and some other stuff. Maybe we get lucky and he is healthy enough to contribute. If not, no big downside to this type of deal.
jumps
Exactly, this is a win-win deal for everyone except guys like Castillo, Covey, & Nelson who are righties competing for the same long man role.
Turnbull has a chance to rebuild value on a WS contender. The Phillies could get a surprise upside pitcher to help with depth. The money is close to what he would’ve gotten had he been with Detroit and the guarantee doesn’t hamstring the Phillies. Jakob Junis got 1/$7 from Milwaukee last week and he was under consideration for the same role they signed Turnbull for.
I think the negative attention here has a lot to do with free agent fatigue with the Boras clients. We still want that “exciting” free agency time with the signings. But it seems like no one is interested in Snell or Montgomery for what they want. After the Rodon deal blew up in the faces of the Yankees. FO’s are probably afraid to commit too much $$ to one of these guys since they’re talented but still flawed.
And on the Phillies side of things, they need some cheap pitching. Sanchez pitched so well last year, he deserves the chance to try and back it up, especially at his low salary number. They still need to extend Wheeler, which will cost a lot. And also, next year’s free agent market is loaded in starting pitching, not even including possible international guys like Roki Sasaki jumping in as a possibility. The Walker deal is also holding things up. However, if he repeats his 23 performance of having 15+ wins, mid 4.5 ERA, etc. his deal next year will only be 2/$36. Which is may be more palatable for a team to trade for given the rising cost in mid-rotation pitching the last few winters.
Now, if Boras is forced to pivot and say one of his big 2 guys have to maybe settle for a modified 3/$60-65M deal with maybe a player opt out after the first year. Maybe the Phillies get involved in someone like Monty. But if that happens, it’ll likely open a door for almost any bigger market team that’s willing to spend.
JackStrawb
@jumps Such a pity the Phillies paid so much for a 100-inning mediocrity like Walker, Had they picked up a solid reliever instead and held onto the money for Montgomery, they’d be vastly better off.
jumps
Well, I think Walker is a fine pitcher. It’s just how long his contract is for. If it was a 3 year deal from the get go, I think people would feel different. Also, don’t forget that his signing was due to the Phillies lack of depth being exposed in the postseason.
DD’s history in free agency is to do one of two things:
1. Sign players immediately and set the market for someone before someone sets a price tag to high.
2. Wait out free agency and see if someone will sign below their value due to lack of interest
He did #1 with Walker and Strahm last year and is doing #2 right now. DD got Strahm for what is now below market price and Walker is right around what mid-rotation arms are getting now in FA but that 4th year is one too long. The issue is the two guys ahead of him are making $20+M each and it’s really not sustainable to have $100+M tied up to 4 starters.
I don’t really like Cease or Bieber. Both have big red flags that I don’t like and might not age well. They’ll likely get outbid for either one anyway. I would’ve hoped that they would explore other lesser thought of guys. Brady Singer, Mitch Keller, I was saying last winter why not try to trade for Logan Webb before they signed Walker. It’s tough cause the Phillies are so too heavy. Their farm system is getting much better but isn’t at the level where they’re churning out guys. So they have to live by free agency and make smart trades that won’t blow up in their faces.
n2thecards
They haven’t won the WS the last few seasons, but I would argue that playing deep in the playoffs is something most fans would be happy about.
Plugnplay
Yup, Phillies fan should all be happy. Finishing in the final 4, and then runner up the last 2 years is great. Especially when they’re not one of the 4 best teams. Good for them.
DarkSide830
WHY
jumps
The article says it all. He’s originally a DD draft pick. At times, he’s flashed #2-3 upside, when healthy. Will be 2 full seasons removed from TJS and going from an organization he was actively unhappy with to a team that’s made deep postseason runs the last 2 years. I don’t see why it’s a gamble.
The biggest thing to remember is in DD’s interview, he mentioned how most free agents want guaranteed innings. With Walker’s contract currently unmovable, the need to extend Wheeler, and Sanchez’s possible emergence last season. He’s fine with going into the season with the same rotation. I don’t blame him at all for not giving $25-30M a year for Montgomery or Snell.
He also doesn’t have many big trade chips to deal. He probably can only swing 1 big deal this year. So he’ll probably wait until July to make a decision. The Mariners aren’t moving any of their pitchers and they’ll easily get outbid for pitchers like Cease & Bieber.
It doesn’t preclude them from making more moves and they possibly signed a potential mid rotation starter to be their #6/long man for a low price.
stymeedone
He wasn’t unhappy with the Tigers. He was unhappy with HARRIS!
jumps
Okay, he was unhappy with leadership. Which defaults to the Tigers. It’s not to imply that the Tigers are an awful franchise. It’s not like he was calling out teammates or fist fighting fans. The Tigers could’ve easily kept him around for cheap and maybe gotten enough out of him to flip this summer for some assets. His non-tender showed both sides were probably happy to cut the cord. The ~$2M arbitration number he was carrying wasn’t going to stop them from making any other deals.
If he has anything left in the tank, he’ll likely show it this year being 2 full seasons removed from TJS.
Motor City Beach Bum
Who said that?
jumps
It’s linked in the article. Turnbull wasn’t happy with being shuffled between the MLB & AAA ILs. One could view it as Harris using that to manipulate service time. Most guys that hire Scott Boras are emboldened and aggressive with their teams when they do stuff like this. Turnbull fought for the extra service time and beat the Tigers. Then after that he got non-tendered. The Tigers are still working on this rebuild of theirs. While Turnbull wasn’t great, it usually takes 2 full seasons for guys to show if they’ve recovered from TJS. I just think for how low his salary was, keeping him around as a 5th starter or long man out of the bullpen wouldn’t hurt. He could provide innings, possibly be a trade candidate in the summer if he’s putting up good numbers. While guys like Maeda are better pitchers than Turnbull, I just don’t see Detroit competing for that division right now. I think they should be holding onto as many possible trade chips that they could flip, especially when they’re so cheap.
kabphillie
Why not?
User 2161944466
The Phillies will not let the Super Bowl have the spotlight tonight.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
For 2024, I see Phillies as WC1 and Padres as WC3. The number of wins for both teams will start with an “8”.
Simm
I actually like w3 better than w2 and maybe even w1. I’d prob take the home games in w1 but being able to play the central winner is better than going to play a team like the Phillies.
VonPurpleHayes
I’m hoping the Phils hit that 9 mark gain, but what you’re saying makes sense.
Blackpink in the area
Someone deleted my comments?
Motor City Beach Bum
Good.
Blackpink in the area
Wow another guy I was arguing about baseball with yesterday and now shows up for no reason here. How original
Motor City Beach Bum
Yeah a Tigers fan on a post about a former Tiger. Crazy right?
Blackpink in the area
And why did my post concern you?
…..
Blackpink in the area
Snowflake brigade out in full force
its_happening
Good signing. Still a division threat.
dano62
Nice buy-low gamble; he’s a very serviceable swing man who can also be a backend starter on a competitive team. Tigers are going to miss him when [fill in the blank] goes down…
609Collectibles
The Phillies definitely improved their pitching depth. They will actually have a real rotation at Lehigh, if and when they need a spot start. Turnbull, Allard, Mercado- these are low risk moves that could pay off and provide valuable innings to the big league club. I’d stretch these guys out in the spring, but could see one of them (especially Turnbull) emerging as a weapon out of the pen.
♪
MLB Trade Rumors: Please close all comments for a week or two. Maybe some of the chronic trollers need a nice, long timeout and will think before they post next time.
Gwynning
Just block the “singular” troglodyte. I did and life is much better not seeing their ad hominem attacks and bickering!
Blackpink in the area
Dude I wasn’t even talking to you and you were running your mouth about me in another thread unprovoked.
If you don’t like someone don’t talk to them. And don’t talk about them either.
AHH-Rox
Unfortunately some of us use the phone app where the Mute feature hasn’t worked right for more than a year. Would love to be able to mute about 5 trolls.
Gwynning
I dumped the app and just use my browser for the site. Works 100x better, cheers
Blackpink in the area
#victim
Blackpink in the area
If you don’t like someone else ignore their comments. Don’t reply to their comments. It’s not that difficult.
Motor City Beach Bum
Practice what you preach Joel.
Blackpink in the area
I am not the one complaining and playing the victim here. You seem to lack some comprehension skills.
Motor City Beach Bum
You are always playing the victim Joel. Go watch the Superbowl or something and stop annoying everyone with your whining and condescending comments.
Blackpink in the area
You are the one who is following me around here chief. Again basic comprehension skills.
Motor City Beach Bum
You are on a post about a former Tiger, current Phillie. Last time I checked you were a Cards fan or something? I am a Tigers fan. You are annoying and condescending and show up on every post Joel with your know it all BS and flippant remarks. Go away!
Blackpink in the area
You showed up here and replied to MY COMMENT like a freaking troll. I don’t go following you around like a dog with a mental issue thats you. There is no rule that says I can’t reply to posts unless it’s the team I root for.
Again YOU FOLLOWED ME HERE!
Gwynning
I never say this, but seriously, stfu Joel.
Blackpink in the area
You are the guy who unprovoked decided to talk trash about me in another thread. That’s you. You did that. And now you show up here and cry victim.
I don’t go out of my way to reply to your posts. I have NEVER called you out by name when discussing baseball with others except once to say you were a good guy. And it’s safe to say I won’t do that again.
Don’t be a troll. Don’t be a moron
Gwynning
Dude, are you OK? We discussed something and I called you out. I also see how you talk to other people. You’re off your rocker, pal. Legitimately. Now, follow your own advice and stop commenting on posts you don’t agree with. Enjoy the silence
Blackpink in the area
We weren’t discussing anything. You were talking to someone else and you mentioned my name out of nowhere. I wasn’t around we weren’t talking I just happen to see the comment.
That’s what happened.
You are mad because the Padres went from big spender to broke losers. That’s a fact. Get over it.
Gwynning
You’re an even bigger idiot than you lead us on to believe. Aloha!
Blackpink in the area
Who is us?
Now you are trying to use others to justify your stupidity. The other guy is mad because we were arguing about baseball the day prior.
You said my name unprovoked in a post I wasn’t even involved in. You did that. And instead of admitting you were wrong you act like a tool
Padres suck chump. Hope you enjoy the season.
Motor City Beach Bum
I will join Gwynning…that makes “us”. You’re being a tool. Go away. Last post from me but go ahead and get the last word in Joel.
Blackpink in the area
You are a troll who os mad because we were arguing over an entire different subject the day prior.
You are you. You represent you and only you.
Weak minded fool
Motor City Beach Bum
Bye bye Joel.
Blackpink in the area
Lol you just can’t quit. Get a life fella
sergefunction
Worth a Phillie Flyer. I suppose.
But once you skid down Spencer’s present icy slope…..
I would keep him in mind as just one example when wondering if the risk of going for a no-hitter with a high pitch count is worthwhile.
PutPeteinthehall
Was thinking same thing last night watching replay of 2003 NLCS game 6. Dusty Baker made Mark Prior into a coach rather than a player by leaving him in for 116 pitches. No pitch number counter on the screen in 03. It appears once fatigue sets in the chance of injury goes way up. There is nothing magic about 100 or 90 or 110. However five or six innings for most starts should be enough with an eight man pen and the ability to shuttle from the minors when needed. Dusty was brutal managing or actually not managing that game. Prior was 23 years old. Not smart enough yet to know when to signal the bench. Shouldn’t have had to anyway.
Motor City Beach Bum
As long as he isn’t with the Tigers I could not care less. Not a team player.
TroyVan
Couldn’t agree more. The whole saga last year reminds me of that Mike Tyson I Broke My Back interview
youtube.com/shorts/Wq3AHVwcvTQ?si=giDS7RKAJCpqP_R8
SportsFan0000
Spencer Turnbull was known as a warrior by his teammates and definitely a “team player”.
He has Tommy John (major surgery).
New Front Office tries to burn him in arbitration?!
He sat out the entire ’22 Season with Tommy John.
He was trying to get back on track in ’23 but was not ready, needed more time.
Tigers Front Office rushed him back
(but they gave other phenom pitchers, expensive draft picks “all the time they needed or wanted without major problems?!)
Harris tried to demote Turnbull to AAA with injuries in violation of MLB Rules according to their agreement with the Players Association?!
(where medical care is not as good and pay, housing, meals are “minor league standards and not up to par”).
If his Agent Boros had not intervened, then Turnbull should have fired him on the spot.
Boros represents his Clients, individual players.
Most MLB players don’t play 15-20 years.
Players and agents must protect the health of the player and his talent which is the asset that teams, fans, media pay to see live or on TV.
Boros did his job.
It should have had no affect on Harris’s evaluation and relationship with Turnbull.
But, apparently, it did and it cost the Tigers a top of the rotation young starter with great stuff when he is healthy.
youtube.com/watch?v=Nt4eVO-UmRo
longines64
Probably a Lorenzon grab. May flash but will wind up as a ham and egger.
VonPurpleHayes
It’s a minor league depth signing. Phillies rotation is set with Wheeler, Nola, Suarez, Walker and Sanchez.
Rsk3228
Would love to send Walker into the sun and sign Montgomery.
cpdpoet
Upvote for “ham and egger”
PutPeteinthehall
This is a great example of someone that did not perform well coming back from a surgery. The so called two year deal where the player just had surgery is usually a sucker bet by teams.
SportsFan0000
This is a great example of mismanagement of and impatience with a player rehabbing from major Tommy John surgery.
Tigers have made some major mistakes along these lines in their history including “The Bird” Mark Fydrych who they overworked until his arm was ready to fall off and ruined his career at a very young age.
Turns out, he needed Tommy John surgery before it was even invented.
For Love of the Game
Massive attitude problem, but you don’t get quality for just $2 mill. If it doesn’t work out, it would be an affordable loss. If it works, the Phils bought some innings on the cheap.
stymeedone
I’ve seen HARRIS have several problems communicating with players. Turnbull had no previous problems until HARRIS arrived. Never heard a teammate have a problem with him.
For Love of the Game
You’ve made it well known you blame Harris for everything. Harris seems to have gotten along with everyone except Turnbull who hid not one, but two injuries from the team.
SportsFan0000
You are blaming Turnbull?!
Turnbull was trying to tough it out and get back on track with a new Pres of Baseball Ops that did not draft him and did not respect his contributions to a rebuilding Tigers team.
Turnbull was the Tigers #1 Starter during a tough rebuild.
Turnbull also pitched a no hitter and then had to go down for surgery.
New Tigers Front Office disrespected Turnbull who had “paid his dues” on some truly bad Tigers teams.
Isn’t this the guy who Harris fought on money issues in
Arbitration
after being the “good soldier” and “good team” on some truly bad Tigers teams?!
Harris completely mismanaged the relationship with Turnbull by “hard balling him” on money issue when he was working his way back from injuries.
This one may come back to bite the Tigers on their backsides when Turnbull is healthy and pitching according to his talent for the Phillies.
Turnbull had a “no hitter” just a few years ago.
Harris tried to demote a hurt player to the minors instead of putting him on the IL?!
That is against MLB Rules.
Not Turnbull’s fault that he and his agent called them on it.
Then the relationship went downhill.
Dombrowski drafted Turnbull and would have treated him more fairly than the Harris regime treated Turnbull.
SportsFan0000
youtube.com/watch?v=Nt4eVO-UmRo
SportsFan0000
Harris blew it on Turnbull.
Guy took the ball and was the Tigers top starter during a brutal rebuild.
Harris thanked him by trying to demote him to AAA with an injury
which violated MLB Rules.
It went downhill after that.
Motor City Beach Bum
Not what happened dude. Go read up on it. What happened stank to high heaven on Turnbulls end.
SportsFan0000
Yes that is exactly what happened.
I was following the situation at the time.
The Tigers bad treatment of Turnbull when he took many bullets for a rebuilding organization with a terrible team and then they repaid him by
(1 lowballing him in arbitration
2) tried to send an injured Turnbull to the minors who was trying to come back from Tommy John surgery were he sat out the entire ’22 season?!
THAT IS AGAINST MLB RULES.
I DON’T BLAME THE AGENT BOROS FOR STANDING UP FOR HIS CLIENT THE PLAYER THAT IS WHY PLAYERS HIRE AGENTS TO LOOK OUR FOR THEIR BEST INTERESTS.
I call that Bullsheet!
I am a Tiger fan and I cannot accept that.
I know that when a New Front Office team comes in that they, generally, try to favor their own players and make their own moves.
Harris blew it with both Candelario and Turnbull.
SportsFan0000
youtube.com/watch?v=Nt4eVO-UmRo
Motor City Beach Bum
You have repeated the same thing over and over. I get your position and don’t agree. We’re both Tigers fans do hopefully we get to cheer because our team does well this year, but the fact it it won’t be with Turnbull there.
SportsFan0000
youtube.com/watch?v=Nt4eVO-UmRo
SportsFan0000
So a player who tolled his butt off for a very bad rebuilding team and never complained, never asked to be traded to a contender etc is a “bad guy”” because he needed Tommy John and the full 2 year recovery period that it requires in many cases?!
What the heck is wrong with you!?
Motor City Beach Bum
He’s a bad guy for how he acted at the end. It stinks to high heaven with how it played out. He didn’t have a placement the rotation anyway. There’s 6 guys ahead of him at least, maybe more.
Johhos
Just was asking who they would sign that they could stash….April and May could be a piggyback starter , otherwise good depth for AAA if he’s healthy….
I
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
Where are the Red Sox? Didn’t even notice this guy was available but it seems like a steal
warnbeeb
Scott Boras earned every penny of his commission on this one. I thought Turnbull wasn’t worth more than a minor league deal and invite to ST. Obviously, I don’t know anything.
Methinks Boras convinced Turnbull to play possum all last year and eke out a year of service time. He got the Tigers to cave on giving him that year. In exchange, Boras tells the Tigers he will favorably remember the gesture when Spencer Torkelson wants a long term deal.
I hope Turnbull puts it together. He was not good, Bob. Not good last year for my Pesky Bengals.
SportsFan0000
Turnbull was the Tigers best starter through their brutal rebuild.
He was “breaking out” in ’20 and ’21
He threw a no hitter in ’21 for a bad Tigers team.
He was out for major surgery in ’22
and was not ready to come back in ’23.
Harris and Tigers tried to rush him back in ’23 when he was still hurt and not ready after major surgery?!
Then, they tried to send a hurt player to the minors after they burned him in arbitration for being hurt?!
Reads like total mismanagement of the player by the Tigers.
youtube.com/watch?v=Nt4eVO-UmRo
warnbeeb
He had TJ surgery in June ’21. He didn’t get back on the mound until ST of ’23. His rehab was 20 months. They nursed him through ST and he did OK and made the opening day rotation. I don’t think the Tigers “rushed” him at all. He had a little more time than most TJ pitchers.
And his injury….which he admitted to….did not show up until AFTER they sent him down. He never said a thing while scuffing through his first 7, dreadful starts.
BTW, he hired Boras after he had surgery and was rehabbing. The timeline suggests that Boras encouraged him to report the injury. Boras maneuvered him through the ’23 season….probably knowing he has lost a lot of his stuff and trying to pitch in Toledo was not going to enhance his off season value.
Scott Boras did a fabulous job getting Turnbull that extra year and this contract. I wish nothing but the best for any player. MLB is a tough, unforgiving business. But if he spits the bit in Philly we’ll kind of have an idea what was going on in Detroit.
I think Scott Harris knew the game they were playing and decided not to play. He acceded to Boras’ request to give Turnbull that year of service time in exchange for future considerations from Boras when the Tigers want to sign a different Boras client.
gbs42
Finally, the Boras client signing we’ve all been waiting for!
HBan22
Good signing. Low risk, reasonably high reward. Could turn out to be a valuable swingman type for them.
stymeedone
He was scheduled to get $2.4MM before HARRIS made his mistake. I would think he could have gotten $2MM with out Boras. Same thing occurred with Candelario last year. He had no problem getting his ask from Washington once HARRIS cut him.
Motor City Beach Bum
What mistake did Harris make by cutting him? The guy was not a team player and a distraction. He did not pitch well with the Tifers or in the minors. Good riddance!
SportsFan0000
Harris blew it with Candelario.
He should have signed him and he still could have traded him at the deadline.
Turnbull was another mess up by Harris and company.
The guy carried the team on his back as a starter during a brutal rebuild, then was hurt requiring major surgery that has over 1 year recouperation period for many pitchers,
Lowballed a hurt player in arbitration.
Then, tried to send a hurt player to the minors against MLB Rules?!
That is too much bullsheet for me!
Here is Turnbull pitching a no hitter for a bad Tigers team a few years ago.
Harris’s treatment of Turnbull was appalling,
youtube.com/watch?v=Nt4eVO-UmRo
Motor City Beach Bum
He had like a 7.00 ERA. No one cares what he did in 2021. Baseball is a business.
SportsFan0000
He was rehabbing from Tommy John.
What part of that medical fact do you not get?!
It can take up to 2 years to rehab and be ready to play at full strength again.
Surgery was 2022 and he sat out the season.
’23 would have been year 2 and the Tigers rush him into the rotation before he was ready?!
cpdpoet
@100 comments for a, when healthy, guy who barely threw an average of 5ip per start? He is 31 so what is the thought process here? That is my question. What does DD envision for this guy?
He may be too young to abandon starting, but any solid addition is welcome for me.
JackStrawb
It’s the signing you make when you’re running out of money but still feel nervous about who’s otherwise likely to get the last 5-10 starts (we don’t do rotations, for the most part; we look for 162 starts) and if that turns out not to be an issue, the last 30-40 innings out of the pen.
Or, what you do when the question is,
“What’s the best way to boost the butt end of the rotation or pen for $2m?”
SportsFan0000
This guy has great stuff when healthy.
Scouts says he had the best stuff in the Tigers rotation when it was breaking in its younger, top draft picks, highly regarded young starters.
He got hurt, was out with surgery for the entire ’22 season and not ready to pitch in ’23 when they tried to fight him in arbitration, then demote him to the minors with an injury which created bad blood with him/his agent and t he Tigers since it was against MLB Rules(can’t send injured players to the minors).
Here is Turnbull’s no hitter 2 years ago!
youtube.com/watch?v=Nt4eVO-UmRo
Old York
Worth watching the competition between Turnbull & Covey for the spot in the bullpen as a long reliever and starter insurance.
gotigers68
Spoiled baby.
SportsFan0000
Dude was hurt.
He took many bullets for some really bad Tigers rebuilding teams
New Front Office tried to rush him back from surgery with over 1 year recovery time and he was not ready.
Then, they tried to demote an player coming off major surgery to the minors which is against MLB rules (after they tried to low ball him
in arbitration after he put his body on the line for some very bad, Tigers rebuilding teams?! Seems like the New Tigers Front Office mismanaged Turnbull’s injury situation and lost a very valuable pitcher when healthy.
Turnbull’s no hitter a few short years ago before his injury and major surgery.
youtube.com/watch?v=Nt4eVO-UmRo
The Saber-toothed Superfife
Weĺl, I hope he does well.
SportsFan0000
Another Dombrowski STEAL OF AN UNDERVALUED PLAYER.
Turnbull, when healthy, had the best stuff in a Tigers rotation loaded with high 1st round draft picks. Manning, Mise and more).
Skubal was drafted in a later round and has broken out also.
When Turnbull is healthy, he is a great starting pitcher who dominates hitters.
Dombrowski and the Phillies could catch “lightening in a bottle”
with Turnbull like they did with Brandon Marsh and Cristian Pache.
warnbeeb
He clearly did not come back from TJ surgery better. Some guys don’t. Maybe more time. Nevertheless, he kind of mislead or miscommunicated with his employers about his neck and toe.
He flat out was not good last year. He wasn’t good in the minors either.
Phillies/Dombrowski are taking a chance that he is recovered. He has not pitched decently in 3 years.
SportsFan0000
Turnbull threw the 8th No hitter in Tigers history in ’21
(ONLY 2 YEARS AGO)
He had major surgery in ’22 and was out for an entire year.
He was not fully recovered in ’23 JUST LAST SEASON).
So your post is “off” by a number of years.
youtube.com/watch?v=Nt4eVO-UmRo
warnbeeb
I’m sorry but Turnbull had TJ surgery in 2021…June I think. He didn’t pitch from the time of that surgery until ST of 2023….close to 2 years.. He pitched well enough to make the rotation last year coming out of ST. He pitched terrible. And it wasn’t his arm that put him on the DL for most of 2023. It was his neck and toe.
Please try to keep up.
SportsFan0000
Turnbull was still recovering from surgery in ’23
He started “breaking out” in ’20 and ’21
He had surgery and missed all of ’22.
It takes some players longer to return from surgery.
He did not pitch all of ’22 from surgery.
Harris rushed and was impatient with him in ’23.
They started him only 7 games and hit pitched only 31 innings in ’23.
Then, Harris tried to demote Turnbull to AAA
when he was still, obviously hurt and working his way back from surgery.
That is against MLB rules.
His agent, Boros, had to intervene for the health and career of the player.
Other pitchers coming off major surgeries were treated much better by the Tigers like Mise, Manning, Skubal etc.
Scouts reported that Turnbull had the best stuff in the Tigers rotation a few years ago when Mise, Manning and Skubal were in the rotation and all healthy.
Here is the final out of Turnbull’s “No Hitter” for the Tigers a few short years ago.
Scott Harris mismanaged Turnbull and it may come back to bite the Tigers when he returns to form with the Phillies,.
youtube.com/watch?v=Nt4eVO-UmRo
gotigers68
Well, at least we know Turnbull has one fan.
SportsFan0000
He had a whole legion of Tigers fans and he was a Tigers hero when he lead their rotation in ’21 and ’22.
And, I read at the time before he got hurt that other teams asked about trading for Turnbull frequently.
But, the rebuilding Tigers were so short on cost controlled pitching that they did not want to trade Turnbull.
When he blossoms, again, with another then the same “bandwagon” Tigers fans who are not real Tigers fans will have convenient amnesia and then say whey did they get rid of Turnbull?
Motor City Beach Bum
I think you’ll be in the minority among Tifers fans on that bandwagon dude. He’s gone so what does it matter? If he does well later you can say I told you so then. Not after he has a 7.00 ERA and can’t stay on the big league roster.
There’s a whole team of guys who want to be there that we can cheer for. Skubal is a darkhorse Cy Young candidate and Jobe is ranked behind only Skenes for right handed minor league pitchers. The future is looking pretty good with what they have in house.
gotigers68
Lorenzen pitched a no hitter, last year. We had a no hitter by committee, last year. They happen. Not always a predictor of greatness……, especially in Turbull’s case.
The Saber-toothed Superfife
I was always under the impression he was very good. Still a fledgling.
warnbeeb
It must be noted that Casey Mize had his TJ surgery later in the 2022 season than Turnbull had his in 2021. Mize, like Turnbull, didn’t pitch the following year and each showed up in ST (Turnbull in ’23 and Mize in ’24) both ready to compete for starting rotation spots.
Are the Tigers rushing Mize too? Mize has had recovery time that Turnbull. My opinion is that Turnbull’s TJ surgery was successful but his ability to pitch as before did not come back. Some guys come back better. Some never get it back. I think the Tigers believe in Turnbull’s case, it’s the latter. Dave Dombrowski has never shied away from spending other people’s money.
warnbeeb
Mize has had less recovery time than Turnbull coming into Spring training.
SportsFan0000
Behind Spencer Turnbull’s no-hitter for the Tigers, there’s the story of a father-son bond
theathletic.com/2599792/2021/05/19/behind-spencer-…
Billg7987
A nice enough signing if they have reason to believe his health issues are behind him. I worry there because Detroit knows his health better than anyone and they weren’t willing to risk it.