The Yankees have acquired right-hander JT Brubaker and international bonus pool space from the Pirates for a player to be named later, per announcements from both clubs. Prior to the official announcements, Alex Stumpf of MLB.com reported on that Brubaker was going to the Yanks for a PTBNL. The righty is on the 60-day injured list, recovering from last year’s Tommy John surgery. He won’t need a roster spot with the Yankees but won’t be available to them immediately. Per Stumpf, via Bryan Hoch of MLB.com, Brubaker is targeting a return around the All-Star break. He’s controllable via arbitration through the 2025 season. The bonus pool money is worth $550K, per Francys Romero.
Brubaker, 30, missed the entire 2023 season after requiring Tommy John in mid-April. In the three preceding seasons, he had been one of the steadier arms on Pittsburgh’s staff. He tossed 315 2/3 innings over the 2020 to 2022 campaigns, one of which was shortened by the pandemic, with an earned run average of 4.99.
Though that ERA may not be terribly exciting, it’s possible that it doesn’t represent his true skill level, with some underlying metrics painting a more favorable picture. He struck out 23.3% of batters faced in that stretch and walked 7.8%, with both of those numbers being slightly better than average for a starting pitcher in the modern game. His 44% ground ball rate was also right around typical league average.
The discrepancy may be down to luck, as his .313 batting average on balls in play and 70.1% strand rate have both been on the unfortunate side of par. ERA estimators like his 4.43 FIP and 4.04 SIERA suggest he may have deserved better. That was especially true in 2022, when he had a 4.69 ERA but a 3.92 FIP and 3.97 SIERA.
But it’s also possible the difference is down to Brubaker’s struggles with lefties, something explored by MLBTR’s Anthony Franco prior to Brubaker’s surgery. He only throws his changeup about 5.5% of the time and hasn’t had great results with it, meaning he doesn’t have a great weapon for tackling lefty hitters. They have hit .269/.339/.481 against him, compared to a line of .272/.342/.391 from righty-swinging opponents.
Whether the Yankees can help Brubaker find another gear remains to be seen, but there’s likely some appeal even if he remains a back-of-the-rotation kind of guy. The Yankees were looking for starting pitching this offseason, even after signing Marcus Stroman. Their need for rotation reinforcements was only increased with the recent news that Gerrit Cole is going to miss some time with an elbow issue.
Cole and Brubaker may be on somewhat similar timelines, as Cole was also placed on the 60-day IL, putting him on the shelf until at least late May but with an uncertain timeline after that. Brubaker won’t be able to help out during Cole’s absence but other injuries could crop up throughout the season that could require reinforcements. The Yankees currently have Stroman, Nestor Cortes and Carlos Rodón in three rotation spots, all three of whom missed significant time last year. Luis Gil won a rotation spot out of camp despite missing most of the past two seasons recovering from his own Tommy John surgery.
Brubaker comes into 2024 with exactly four years of service time. He first qualified for arbitration going into 2023 and earned a salary of $2.275MM. After sitting out the whole campaign, he agreed to the same mark this year, with one more arbitration season remaining.
For the Bucs, they were looking at another season and a half of Brubaker’s services, including next year and the post-All-Star portion of 2024. Once healthy, he would have been entering a rotation mix that currently consists of Mitch Keller, Martín Pérez, Marco Gonzales, Jared Jones and Bailey Falter, but prospects like Paul Skenes and Quinn Priester might be in there by midseason. Bubba Chandler will be a bit behind that group and Johan Oviedo, who will miss 2024 due to his own Tommy John, will be back in the picture next year.
General manager Ben Cherington spoke to Jason Mackey of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, saying that the club preferred to get something in return now. That return is unknown at this time but will become more clear when the PTBNL is revealed. In the meantime, they will save a small amount of money.
The Yanks will be taking on slightly more than the Bucs are saving, since they are over the fourth line of the competitive balance tax and a third-time payor. That means they are paying a 110% tax on any money they add to the payroll at this point. On top of Brubaker’s $2.275MM salary, they will also have to pay $2.5025MM in taxes.
If Brubaker is healthy in a few months but the Yankee rotation is in decent shape, he has a couple of options and could be sent to Triple-A. That could provide the club with some extra depth, it could also give them an extra year of control. As mentioned, Brubaker is coming into 2024 with exactly four years of service time. He’s currently accruing more service time while on the 60-day IL but an optional assignment of a few weeks would prevent him from getting to the five-year mark this year.
Regardless of how that plays out, the Yankees are adding some rotation depth for the latter half of this year and for the future as well. Additionally, they’ve added some unknown amount of international bonus pool space. The Bucs have saved a bit of money and bolstered their system with another player who is presumably younger and more controllable than Brubaker, though the details of their return have not yet emerged.
angryyankeesfan1
This is actually a neat pickup.
angryyankeesfan1
It’s like basically a trade deadline acquisition.
Salvi
Except trade deadline acquisitions come with a half-season track record. This is a complete lottery pick. If Yankees win that lottery, they get a 5th starter.
JackStrawb
@APBA — yeah, that’s the realistic assessment.
Cashman kept trading away pitching, adding only a Stroman, then found himself in a jam. Brubaker is who you end up with when you get yourself in a jam shortly before Opening Day.
If this is a deadline acquisition, it’s like adding 43-year old Rich Hill.
SODOMOJO
Interesting for sure.
A'sfaninLondonUK
@jackstrawb
Whilst I’m astounded that Cashman still has a GM role, him and his team are very good at tying together bullpen pieces on the fly. This is a piece of cheap insurance. If the top six SPs are healthy come the ASB he’ll stretch out in long relief. Otherwise Brubaker will a #5 starter with a short leash.
Intrigued who will be the PTBNL. Good move for Brubaker too, unblocking the Pirate youth movement…
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
Is Brubaker going to reform the Yankees Rotation like he reformed the Prison system in 1980
Old York
@Lefty_Orioles_Fan
He should be a top of the rotation guy. Probably give them 400+Ks and a sub 1 ERA.
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
@Old York
Is he Roy Hobbs?
underdog
Was hoping someone would reference this.
“You can’t hide in prison forever, Coombes.”
TheMan 3
The movie “ Brubaker “ with Robert Redford is a classic
Mad Hatter
Good one Lefty!
Old York
Good. I support removing beards from MLB.
briar-patch thatcher
Can you grow a good one? Probably not.
Old York
@briar-patch thatcher
I am clean shaven. Why would I want to look like a caveman?
Joe says...
So you can sell insurance?
User 2161944466
And less likely to be pulled over and searched for contraband.
Old York
@Joe says…
Cavemen had insurance for sale?
Joe says...
It’s so easy, a caveman could do it.
alwaysgo4two
Yep….so easy a caveman can do it.
Blue Baron
@Old York: To say nothing of judging those who make choices different from yours.
Old York
I judge people by their character of presenting themselves as a caveman.
Skeptical
@pld york, where I live, beards are more indicative of mountain men, you know outdoorsy types. The clean shaven are ….. well, let’s leave it at that.
TheMan 3
Everyone I know including myself has a beard and we live in the suburbs.
dponkell
Well that’s just gay then
dponkell
Well that just means you’re a bunch of sissy’s
larkraxm
When you reach a certain age, your body goes through changes, and you start to get hair in places you didn’t before. Do you scrape all of your hair off your body with a sharp piece of metal? Everywhere? Why would you attempt to look like a hairless prepubescent teenage boy? Men have facial hair.
TheMan 3
it’s spelled “ sissies “,
BoJuBi
Cause the ladies love it
StudWinfield
If I owned the Yankees I would ditch the beard policy but implement strict man-scaping standards .
dasit
Pirates just issued a statement “We thought it was in JT’s best interests to go to a team with competent coaching. We look forward to watching JT work with Matt Blake to take his game to the next level.”
Grumpofm
Sure. With over $150 million more in payroll last year, the Yankees managed 6 more wins. Clearly their management gets the most out of their players.
Bronx Bob
I’m so old I remember when the Pirates made the playoffs that one time.
I speak the truth
I’m so old I remember when the Yankees were know for more than over paying for over the hill players.
Bronx Bob
I mean… they extended DJ and shouldn’t have. Not sure what “over the hill” player you’re referring to. I guess maybe the Donaldson trade (which they also got IKF). Bad trade but hardly an indictment of an institution philosophy.
TheMan 3
you mean when they beat the Yankees in the 1960 World Series?
Despite having the best offense in baseball they still lost to the lowly Pirates and with the score tied in the bottom of the ninth inning, Bill Mazeroski creamed a Ralph Terry pitch over the left field wall to win the game and the series
Is that the game you remember?
Bronx Bob
I’ve seen film clips!!
jam
Im pretty sure Terry threw the ball over the plate on a 1-0 count.
Despite 19 runs being scored, the game went 2:36. Nobody
Blue Baron
@Bronx Bob: Which time? 1960? 1970? 1971? 1972? 1979? 1990? 1991? 1992?
Bronx Bob
I was thinking the McCutchen team actually
User 3815330533
Yeah, you’re a funny guy, Bob. That makes about as much sense as overspending to win every year and going home with nothing. Guess that misery must eat you up
TheMan 3
I’m so old I remember when the Yankees spent the most money in payroll and still didn’t win the World Series
TheMan 3
Mazeroski wasn’t known for his power and only hit 11 in all of 1960
Bronx Bob
If by “nothing” you mean that they haven’t won WS since 2009 unlike the 10 teams who have… yes that’s correct.
Blue Baron
@Bronx Bob: Perhaps Jay Buhner for Ken Phelps, Willie McGee for Bob Sykes, Fred McGriff for Tom Dodd and Dale Murray, or Doug Drabek for Rick Reuschel.
Bronx Bob
I read about all of those transactions in the baseball Encyclopedia
User 3815330533
I like the Yankees. I just think their fans are boors, as you have illustrated. Point was that given the spending of the franchise over the eons, the ends have hardly justified the means
As a Pirates fan, I never have expectations. To me, that beats the almost yearly heartbreak of an underachieving bunch of overpaid players.
But yeah, the pretzel logic works
dasit
i believe bobby richardson was the last WS MVP who played for the losing team
larkraxm
It’s great that a Pirate’s fan is saying that the Yankees spending isn’t an advantage, and all of their spending has been a waste. The Yankees have played winning baseball for over 30 years in a row, but I’ll give you the point. Spending isn’t a substitute for scouting and player development. Even when the Yankees were great, it was their homegrown core four (plus Bernie!) that was the foundation of those teams. You have made an excellent case for not having a salary cap in MLB.
Blue Baron
@Bronx Bob: Baseball Reference is more current, but either is a good resource if you don’t remember them.
Blue Baron
@larkraxm: I have long wondered why Bernie wasn’t considered part of a Core Five, even though it doesn’t rhyme.
Kruk it
Rick Rhoden who was a very good pitcher at the time. Good golfer too
Mendoza Line 215
Dasit-He was the only one ever.
Richardson was and always has been a classy guy and was a fine player.I remember when he caught the last out of the 1962 WS.Willie McCovey hit a ball as hard as is possible and Richardson’s glove hand must still hurt to this day.
He was the Yankee rep on the 50 Th anniversary show of the 1960 WS headed by Bob Costas along with Bill Virdon and Dick Groat from the Pirates.
They also had in the audience the guy who had the most important hit in Baseball history.
Mendoza Line 215
Lark-The Yankees were great long before the team at the end of the last century.
The WS winning % of 675 is second all time though.
To the Pittsburgh Pirates of 714.
dasit
when i was a kid i inherited an old Peanuts collection from my uncle and there’s was a strip where Charlie Brown and Linus are sitting on a curb in silence for 3 panels, then in the last panel Charlie screams “Why couldn’t McCovey have hit the ball five feet higher!!!”
decades later i finally realized what he was screaming about
Blue Baron
A foot or less might have done it.
dasit
you’re right the yankees don’t have much to brag about lately but they do have a track record of unlocking potential of relievers a la holmes
larkraxm
If you watched the Yankees last year, then you would know that winning 82 games with the starting pitching injuries they had was a coaching miracle. Matt Blake is the best in the biz. He turned Johnny Brito and Randy Vazquez into Juan Soto.
TheMan 3
According to an article in today’s NY Daily News, Brubaker will be used solely as a long reliever
alwaysgo4two
Arbitration eligible. That’s why.
Human Being
Good to see JT move up to the big leagues.
Mendoza Line 215
I have no idea why the Pirates would do this trade unless they are actually going to get a minor leaguer who is potentially of future service to them unlike the results of BC previous deals with the Yankees.
mazbilleroski
Pirates gonna Pirate
Four4fore
Pittsburgh has always served as the Yankees AAAA affiliate.
panj341
Another Clay Holmes like deal? Why?
alwaysgo4two
The Pirates farm system has a lot of high ceiling arms. Whether they reach it, that’s another thing. Brubaker was never any more than a 4 or 5.
Mendoza Line 215
Two-Agreed.But they spent 1/3 of the year last year with three starting pitchers so depth is important to everyone but the Pirates.
I doubt that Nutting wanted to pay him $1M for not pitching like they did last year for $3M to Garcia.
He may not be good when he comes back and he was just OK before.
But he is a bona Fide starter and they do not exactly teem with them now.
And remember that other than perhaps Skenes none of these guys are going to become even Mitch Keller right away.It could take several years for them to get good.
TheMan 3
I’m still not convinced that we will have the pre AS Keller this year or the post AS version
User 3815330533
Careful, my friend. You’ll have the true believers here quoting stats and saying those homers and bombs he serves up when he “loses the feel of his pitches” are all a result of shoddy defense
I like Keller. He’s just not in rarified air of elite pitchers just yet
User 3815330533
Mind-blowing. Before the starting pitching staff even begins to take shape, they trade a guy who has tremendous upside. Maybe they’ll dump Keller next
I guess you can read this as them having great faith in Skenes, Jones, Burrows, Solometo and Chandler as the future With Mitch, of course
mlb1225
I don’t think Brubaker have tremendous upside. I think at he’s a #4 starter, maybe #3 if he is consistent. He also already 30 and probably won’t return from Tommy John surgery until around mid-season this year, assuming there are no set-backs. It’s not like Brubaker was ever consided the Pirates’ best pitching prospect. Best I can find was their 21st best prospect from Baseball America back in 2020.
Buccoprojectory
You are right…Brubaker was very overrated. And very inconsistent. Good luck to him.
CeruleanDrew
OlderDude, “tremendous upside”? Seriously, he’s serviceable at times. You sound like a used car salesman hawking a 2010 Kia Sorrento on a buy here, pay here lot.
User 3815330533
Comparatively speaking to what the Pirates have had as starters the past few years, Cerulean, he’s other worldly.
Point is, they’re putting a lot of eggs in the basket of their minor league studs. I get that and hope they pan out. But why trade him now, before we know for sure and before we know if this current starting staff is worth anything
Mendoza Line 215
BC better have great faith in them because if they do not produce this will be the last GM job that he will ever have.
Card AG
Brubaker isn’t even young. He doesn’t have tremendous upside. He’s a #4-5 starter at best
JoeBrady
tiredolderdude15 hours ago
they trade a guy who has tremendous upside.
======================
LOL! I like this for the NYY, because everyone needs a cheap #5. But do you really believe this guy has tremendous upside? I’m thinking the upside is being league average for one year.
User 3815330533
Joe, if your pitching coach can have him throwing as he did in spring training one year ago, it’ll be a steal
Look, everyone throws heat these days. Brubaker is no different and finally was not only hitting corners but pitching with intelligence according to the count
But more importantly, his breaking pitches were “dropping off the table” variety
I get that it was only spring training and only exhibition games, but it all reflected the fact that the guy was working hard to put it all together
To me, that’s indicative of upside.
Not that I’m a huge fan of his, but I applaud athletes willing to put in the work
Grumpofm
Not sure, but must be trying to get something for someone who’s not in the future plans.
TheMan 3
It doesn’t make any sense to me either Mendoza, but not much of what they do, does
Card AG
He has zero future in Pittsburgh
Card AG
The pirates have a lot of young pitching knocking on the door. By the time he’d return we’ll have Paul Skenes and probably another ready or already promoted. Brubaker has no future here
User 3815330533
Wait a minute. Your analogy is much like going out on a spending spree based on the idea that you have a bunch of cash coming thanks to a hot tip
A lot of maybes
I share your hopes about the young Pirates pitchers. But we’ve heard about their prospects for years and few have shown anything
Yeah, trade this guy…but after a couple of the wonder boys show something at this level
TheMan 3
They have alot of pitching prospects, none have faced or thrown to major league hitters
Skenes hasn’t pitched against major league hitters yet and he’s their #1 prospect
This franchise has a history of under developing players and not that Brubaker would have made a huge difference, he does have major league experience
User 3815330533
Exactly my point, TheMan3. I’m all for trading guys when there is someone who’s proven he can do better
We’re not there yet
Add in their current staff that has Marco, Falter and a rookie, and it defies logic
TheMan 3
Too bad they couldn’t have traded Bailey Falter, he absolutely sucks and should be a long reliever not a starter
They’ll be going to the bullpen early in today’s game
TheMan 3
That’s what they said about Kris Benson when he was drafted #1 or Bryan Bullington
I get that Skenes has the potential for greatness but this organization has a tendency of not having the ability for player development so until these prospects prove me wrong, I will remain a cynic
User 3815330533
Any older fan of the Pirates should have the “ I’ll believe it when I see it” approach to news of can’t miss Pirates prospects just for that reason, TheMan3. Too often, they fizzle out quickly here or are traded and truly coached and make a name elsewhere
I saw enough of Skenes at LSU to know his potential here. But like the rest of the studs on the farm, he has to prove it here
Chuck from Uniontown
I feel like they’re going to get some bullpen guy.
case
Their business model of slashing payroll and fielding bad teams made them one of the 5 most profitable teams in the league… so I’m guessing pocket his salary and hand out executive bonuses?
wvsteve
Hopefully the pirates actually get a player with ML potential. Last 2 trades with Yankees they got their butts Burnt
Joe says...
Pittsburgh did well enough with Nova, Cervelli and Burnett.
panj341
But that was with prior GM. This GM not so good. Don’t know why he would risk getting fleeced again.
Mendoza Line 215
Panj-I had the same question but I can now answer it with the help of other posters.
They are cheap and saved $2M for a guy who is hurt and may not be able to help them this year.
Doh!
I do hope that they do get someone in return though who at least has a chance to help them in the future.
mlb1225
Brubaker was just inconsistent. He’d have stretches where he’d look like a solid #3 starter, but then struggle and barely look like a #5 arm. Who knows what he’ll be like after Tommy John surgery and a year and a half off. I always liked Brubaker though.
User 3815330533
You described a young Keller pretty well here. 5 good starts, and then three or four where he gets hammered. But Mitch has progressed. Now it’s 8 or 9 good starts before he goes through his doldrums.
Point is, this is a mystifying move.
mlb1225
He’s 30, never had nearly the same ceiling or outlook as Keller, and recovering from Tommy John surgery. Keller was much more consistent in early-2022 to mid-2023. He had a stretch of 243.1 inning/41 start+2 bullpen appearance stretch where he had a 3.25 ERA, 3.50 FIP, and 1.25 WHIP. Brubaker never had a stretch like that.
mlb1225
Also, by the time he returns, he’ll only have a year and a half of control left, again assuming he returns when he’s expected to.
User 3815330533
Yup, you’re right. Exaggeration on my part. While I’m not sold on Keller being an ace of a pitching staff, Brubaker isn’t in his category.
Card AG
Keller is a solid #2 or #3. Skenes is our ace in waiting
TheMan 3
you mean like how Keller looked last night?
mlb1225
Eh, not really. Keller has shown he can be much better than a #3 starter in the past, as recently as 2022 and 2023 (see comment above). It was only one mediocer start that was ruined by some botched defense. Not much different than last Opening Day against the Reds, nearly the same line too.
Mendoza Line 215
MLB- I would say that Keller is a solid #3 on a good team and a passable #2.He has not proven to be consistent enough to be a #1.
Of course on the Pirates he is a #1.He has talent,but a true #1 shows it almost every game and season after season.
User 3815330533
Baloney. Abject baloney. You’re much better when you quote stats rather than this Botched defense? Do you watch games or just sit around and read statistics?
He got hit hard on a number of occasions last season after the All Star break. Homers and bombs off the wall aren’t a matter of botched defense
Were the 4 earned runs yesterday attributable to botched defense?
Buccoprojectory
One game and everyone seems to be down on Keller. It’s a fact hitters are always a head of pitching starting the season. I have reason to believe Keller will be one of the top 5 in the game. And Brubaker had no future here. Hasn’t pitched since last April. No one knows how he will pitch after he returns,if at all this year. No trainer trade.
And mazeroskis home run was on a 1-0 pitch from Ralph Terry. To me historians don’t seem to rate his home run as one of the greatest. It’s always Bobby Thompson, shot heard around the world. I was 5 in 1960, but I can remember riding my tricycle with a beatem bucs sticker. And I can remember my dad taking me to a game at Forbes field in 1960. I can still remember smelling the cigar smoke. Memories
User 3815330533
You’re missing my points, bucco. Im not down on Keller and I’m certainly not basing my thoughts on “one game”. Seriously?
But please, spare me the idea that he’s Gerritt Cole in waiting. And the idea that when he’s lost it’s largely due to poor defense is entirely laughable. He still has stretches where he falls in love with dead red, whether it’s his fastball or breaking pitches.
I’m glad he’s here. He’s the ace here. For now. He has a ways to go however
I was a baby when Maz hit the homer in ‘60 but dad took me to numerous games at Forbes. Cigar smoke? Yeah. And other smells, some less appealing.
Mendoza Line 215
I was 7 and walking home from second grade class and somehow heard about Maz.
Pittsburgh fans went crazy that night since it had been 35 years.
My first game was April 22 1962 when Bob Veale beat the Mets to tie the 1955 Dodgers at ten wins to start the season.
Now that you mention it,I remember cigar smoke too.
Never thought that that would bring back fond memories of a great old ballpark.
Mendoza Line 215
Bucco-Thompson shot famous mostly because two NY teams were involved.
I have seen Maz’ home run ranked #3 and #5 all time.#5 said that the Pirates had a 50% chance to win.
Tony Womack’s base hit for Arizona in 2001 was #2.
We should all know what #1 was.
panj341
I was 8 and ran home from school and arrived just in time to see Maz’s HR.
Loved Bob Veale and his big handkerchief that he would pull out of his pocket.
Don’t see anyone doing that today.
Mendoza Line 215
His glasses would fog up and he needed it to clear them.
He was just wild enough and certainly fast enough that I think that John Kruk would have done what he did with Randy Johnson in the All Star game if he ever faced Bob Veale.
TheMan 3
one game? The Keller of pre AS last year was excellent, post AS, more mediocre.
Granted he pitched a few gems but nothing approaching his first half games
By the way, in Suwinski’s second plate appearance in todays game, he looked like the Jack of old
Never took his bat off his shoulder and called out on strike 3.
TheMan 3
I vividly remember when my father took me and my brother to Forbes Field for several games, once watching Willie Stargell clear the right field roof with one of his tape measure shots, becoming only the second player to do that
Babe Ruth was the other
And that odor you smelled, @tired, was sulfur from Jones and Laughlin steel, Before the EPA was established, you could smell sulfur throughout Oakland on any given day
TheMan 3
Bob Veale led the league in strikeouts with 250 one year and holds the team record with 274
He was my favorite pitcher until Blass came along
mlb fan
“Take his game to the next level”…You mean like how Matt Blake helped Jordan Montgomery “take his game to the next level”, by completely mis analyzing his potential and true talent level? The Pirates have transformed more pitchers than Matt Blake ever did and don’t bother mentioning Gerrit Cole, because he was excellent long before he ever met Matt Blake.
StudWinfield
Monte’s performance has been very consistent since 2020. Which happened to be Blake’s first season as pitching coach…
mrmackey
More like he helped Clay Holmes, another ex Pirate.
Card AG
I mean it’s been vise versa as well. Russell Martin and Francisco cervelli both faired well in Pittsburgh once they got out of New York.
Joe says...
Cervelli was good in NY as well but they had Brian McCann at the time.
TheMan 3
New York’s fans add pressure to players not accustomed to having to always produce
AJ Burnett excelled once he was traded to Pittsburgh from NY
Same with Russell Martin.
jerseyjohn
You’re acting like Montgomery became an ace. He had a career year in his walk year. He’s a very good #3, likely to age badly as his stuff is pedestrian. As he loses more velocity he will give up more loud contact.
mlb fan
“Montgomery became an ace”…First off, Monty had a better year than every pitcher on the Yankees staff not named Cole. And he certainly was good enough to pitch(and win)playoff games, something Cashman and Blake thought he couldn’t do. I’m not sure I’d trust a pitching coach(or GM) that would trade a highly serviceable, valuable pitcher like Monty for a broken down, injury prone outfielder like Harrison Bader.
jerseyjohn
If Monty’s an ace so are Cortes and Rodon. Jacoby Ellsbury was a 5 tool star in his walk year… Monty is going to regress right back to the solid, unspectular pitcher he’s always been. The guy you don’t want to match up with the other teams 1&2 in a playoff series.
Roll
Sadly this very good#3 would probably be the ace of the yankees right now.
jerseyjohn
Well you obviously hate the team. Stroman is better, and one or both of Cortes/Rodon will be better.
Roll
the rodon that gave up 4 hr in 5 games in spring or 15 hr in 14 games last year with a major injury history
the cortes that just gave up 4 runs in first game of the season along with era around 5 last season and also gave up a hr a game and is also injury prone i dont think he has made it a full season yet
both of them im probably taking the under on 20 starts for either of them.
Stroman maybe if you squint your eye at the rignt angle but at best he would be tied with montgomery and i dont think he even does that. he came back from injury and did not do well at all especially in a weaker division so i would say no.
jerseyjohn
So your case is only 2023 counts? Makes sense if we were playing MLB 2023 on PlayStation or whatever. Here are the ERA+ numbers for the 3 pitchers for the years 2021 and 2022.
Rodon .185, 137
Cortes 148, 161
Montgomery 113, 126
So you can go on pretending Monty is an ace and his 2023 year wasn’t the outlier. Cortes and Rodon have both had better years than Monty’s career year which was last year with an ERA+ of 138 dude’s just not that special….
Roll
So what you are saying is as they exit their primes they are going to get better? Outside of them becoming knuckleball pitchers not many pitchers do that and you are hoping 3 of them do. Cortez is still young enough to try and turn it around but he has a lot to turn around and so far has not shown it.
I never said he was an ace in mlb i say he would be the ace of the yankees right now as there are no pitchers on that team thats better than a really good 3. Also one thing an ace should be able to do is be available to pitch and montgomery has more 30 games started in a season than all 3 combined since covid where he was starting 30 each year and stroman has one and rodon has one in his walk year. also why dont you show the trend of 3 years.
stroman 133 119 113 … whats that a trend of… going down
rodon 185 137 63 … whats that a trend of… going down
montgomery 113 126 138 … look a trend heading up.
rodon hopefully isnt that bad and atleast returns to average but even that is probably going to have to be a comeback of the year type season.. who knows maybe he is the new montas this year as there is always one per year for them.
jerseyjohn
Monty is 112,113, 138, you have to take the TOTAL for the year. What a shock looks like a dude who had his best year on a walk year, you never see that. Rodon and Monty are literally days apart in age, Nestor is 2 years younger.
I’m not saying they’re going to get better they have both shown very good years 1 season back, generally, dudes don’t come out of their prime at 31. I loved Monty and hated the trade but done is done. There is big boom or bust potential with this rotation. We shall see what the season holds.
Roll
its a pain to read baseball reference sometimes so i grabbed the wrong line. But either way the statements are still true as he has been trending up. … rodon 2 walk years which got him his big deal and dogged it just like garcia did a few years ( and funny enough i believe both had butt injuries they claimed).
Will he turn it around maybe but hasnt looked the part yet and to me doesnt seem like the has the urgency now that he has the money he wants. Also, he is not durable and has been injury prone his whole career. With him you are pretty much guaranteed to miss 1/4 to 1/3 of his starts. Cortez has been worse than Rodon. If they would have played a full season im willing to bet they would be tired out and you see that number drop more than they were. Cortez is just injury prone like rodon and also seems lost and homer prone.
Stroman did well to start last year but got injured and especially down the stretch looked very bad and i wouldnt consider him an ace or a number 2 i would put him around montgomery but again durability is an issue for him as well.
Montgomery is playing for a new contract as he will most likely opt out as long as he doesnt get hurt. So that gives him urgency and pushes him that much more as well as has been counted on for 30 games a season. I think if he gets his big deal he will lay back and not be as good. No rhyme or reason for that other than the vibe he is giving off.
jerseyjohn
Agree hard to read that site. I loved Monty as a homegrown player. I think he has less wiggle room than most due to his profile though. Agreed on Rodon and Cortes high boom bust with both of them but in the past they’ve both shown ability to be #2’s. It will be an interesting year. Enjoy the season!
ssowl
Wandy Peralta, Clay Holmes, Jimmy Cordero, Michael King, and Ian Hamilton all come to mind. Matt Blake has built a top 5 bullpen consistently since he’s been in New York.
Captainmike1
If only they had not given JP Sears away
I am confident he will be a near future all star player
StudWinfield
The same JP Sears that gave up 34 hrs, hit 16 batters and had a 5.15 fip last year?
Captainmike1
Yes,
I know how to evaluate players better than most people
TheMan 3
You should offer your services to baseball
Gwynning
JP should be an All Star this year, imo o/c
Yankee Clipper
30s and injured, you say? YES, we will take him, of course! – Brian Cashman said…. Every single time.
This type of player to Brian Cashman is like a bad bet to Ippei… just has to be done.
jerseyjohn
Has a great slider and peripherals paint a better pic than results so far. I’m reserving judgementa (as you should) until I know who we sent back.
Yankee Clipper
Reserve judgment….on what? He’s 30 and just had Tommy John surgery. It’s irrelevant who we sent back.
jerseyjohn
You spend a lot of time here in the comments yet don’t follow the game very thoroughly. He sat all of last year he’ll be back shortly. He has a killer slider and a power sinker. His peripheral stats are very solid. He has the chance to turn into something. The fact you don’t even care who will be traded doesn’t speak well to your fandom.
Yankee Clipper
Uh, you can’t read well. I never mentioned anything about who he is, what he will become, or whether or not I care about who will be traded.
My comment was specifically about Brian Cashman. For someone telling someone else about how he follows the game, you sure don’t seem to follow it at all…speaking of fandom.
Try a different approach than criticizing someone for something he didn’t say and perhaps you’ll have a better go of insulting him.
jerseyjohn
You’re peeing on the trade (hurt, over 30, etc).. You don’t know how this will turn out and you have no idea what we gave up to get him and 500k international money. Most people actually wait to see who is involved in a trade before taking a deuce all over it., I see you like to make snap judgments and double down on them. If he turns out to be a good pickup I assume you will forget all about this little exchange and make fun of the Pirates for always giving the Yankees good pitchers in small trades.
User 3815330533
Clip, his problems had been twofold until last spring. One, he seemed to be addicted to throwing dead red fastballs and two, he could spot his movement and off speed pitches
He corrected that greatly one year ago and looked like a different guy. Then he blew out his arm
He’s never gonna be Cole, but it won’t surprise if competent Yankees pitching coaches get him right quickly and he has a number of quality appearances in NY
User 3815330533
*…he couldn’t spot…
Yankee Clipper
You seem to assign motive and intent to others. I never said or implied it was a bad trade. At all. Nor am I doubling down (which would imply I agreed I made that statement and then justified it). And again, I don’t have to wait to see a return to know Cashman acquired an injured 30-year-old. What don’t you get about that?
You seem to talk of snap judgments while making snap judgments. You’re obviously unwilling to see the error of your ways so I’ll spell it out, since you seem to be one of those “fans.”
First, I spoke about Brian Cashman’s proclivity for acquiring injured players which is completely separate from what you assert.
Second, if I was implying that it was a “bad trade” (which I’m not), I could easily justify that assessment because of the last several years of Brian Cashman acquiring injured players, none of which turned out well, particularly with pitchers (Montas, Effross, Rodon (although I supported Rodon acquisition), Trivino, to name a few).
But again, you “double down” on the insults while still not understanding the context in which I said my original comment. Am I to assume you will suddenly turn cheek and apologize for being incorrigible? No, I don’t because you won’t. You seem to be the “always right guy” no matter which conversation you’re involved in.
Now, do you understand since I broke it down for you? Or will you triple down on your argument with yourself? If I didn’t know any better, I’d say you were Joel under yet another assumed identity.
Yankee Clipper
Thanks tiredolddude. I appreciate that summary. I’m also very confident in Blake getting the most out of pitchers as he’s done an excellent job. He certainly has a knack for getting guys to accentuate their best pitches and it typically works well for them.
jimmyz
Depends on if the ptbnl pans out for the Bucs. Given Cashman probably doesn’t want to give up any depth for this year I’m guessing it’s gonna be an A ball player. Also since the Bucs are sending international money to the Yankees as well as Brubaker I’m guessing it’s going to be someone kinda noteworthy. My money is on Cherington trying to get Brando Mayea as the return. 100 speculation though obviously.
jerseyjohn
I am not some other guy.
You began this by snapping back about my “reserving judgment” comment. Your first comment talks about he’s 30 and injured of course Cashman couldn’t help but trade for him. You follow up with playing the victim, “I never said the trade was bad, very passive-aggressive behavior.
I’d respect you more if you just owned it but you want to have it both ways. Crap on the trade and when called out stick to some silly semantics game saying you didn’t say or imply it was a bad trade.
I just started posting on this site again after about 5 years of not doing so and you have me with a rich history of being the “always right guy”.
Enjoy the season and all the injured and over 30 players Cash acquires.
Yankee Clipper
Yes, you’re clearly Joel P. Only he would be this determined to look like a fool.
You should take another five years off because you’re not good at this. Go away, troll.
jerseyjohn
You’re the kind of Yankee fan I’m gonna call out all day, every day I actually like the team and get tired of people smashing on every move they make. I’m no one’s troll just a guy who’s gonna call BS when I see or smell it.
See you around bro..
Yankee Clipper
You’re delusional and *not* a Yankees fan. I just applauded Cashman for the Berti move. The problem with BS is you’ve bathed in it so you’ll always smell it. It’s you.
You are not logical, reasonable, or knowledgeable. You just imagine you’re all three and then try to “call people out.” You’re a hero in your own mind.
Go away Joel. I told you before, you need medication.
jerseyjohn
You are not the arbiter of all things Yankee. I’ve been following since the late 70’s when I was a kid. Whoever you think I am, you are wrong. I can see you don’t like being called out but I ran out of F’s to give.
Goodbye again, and good luck finding Joel, you seem to miss him.
Yankee Clipper
There’s something wrong with you. Your incessant need to tell people you’ve “called them out” reflects your inherent cowardice and mental instability. You’re a troll, and a bad one at that. You’re no Yankee fan either.
jerseyjohn
Your need to keep coming back at me is impressive. Luckily for you commenting on sports articles is just a small part of my life. I’ll be sure to call you out at any point in the future when you deserve it. If people around you all seem like richards, perhaps it’s you and not them…
Yankee Clipper
Ironically, it’s not everyone, just YOU. But, you did argue with several people already under your newly assumed name.
Go away, Joel. Nobody likes you here. You’re a persistent problem and you need mental help. I hope you get it. Joel, KingofCards, whatever else you go by, is so easily discernible because you follow the same crazy pattern every single time. So, maybe take your own advice?
I’m tempted to have you kicked out of here (again). You need help. Go get it, JOEL.
jerseyjohn
Please have me kicked out, I literally beg you. I’m fine with everyone on here, you don’t like being called out on your BS is all. If you have any juice to get the site to look into kicking me out they will see my IP is not your missing friends. You need to stop letting me “John” live in your head rent free. I’m here for my Yankees and lively discussion, you’re here trying to flex on people. I don’t know you personally but I’m already not a fan.
Yankee Clipper
You cannot let it go so I’ll break it down for you:
1) You can’t read or interpret which was problem 1;
2) You cannot accept you were wrong and lashed out from your arrogant positioning of allegedly being a Yankees fan who is protecting the moral high ground;
3) You continually play the victim role.
4) You’re Joel because only he is this crazy
5) Internet is the only place you’ve ever called someone out, it’s apparent
6) Your threat to troll me in attempt to “call me out” just illustrates your lack of desire for any conversation
7) I simply asked a question which set you off in this Joel-esque tirade, which tells me you’re unstable;
8) If you get kicked out (again), you’re simply going to sign in under a different name because you have no life
9) I chose to ignore you before, but now I won’t;
10) With your insane interpretations, you will easily be marked by most people here as JoelP.
Now, good luck with your mental help.
jerseyjohn
I’m still not Joel. You’re still wrong. Get me kicked out bro, please. I’ll be doing my thing enjoying content and periodically commenting when the mood moves me. You can keep your crown as the guy with the most comments, and time patrolling the comment section looking for your lost BFF.
TheMan 3
Please don’t speak for me when you say “ no one likes you here “
I have no beef with you but it’s arrogance to think others feel the same way as you do, Yankee
TheMan 3
No one mentions it but until last year, Brubaker didn’t have an offense to back up his pitching either and he didn’t even play
He always tried to hit the corners for strikes because he was always trying to keep the team in the game
DR2020
Well Clipper, Cashman true to form. we were all making fun of which Tommy John pitcher Cashman would get, and we finally got one of our answers.
Mendoza Line 215
If the Yankees can turn Clay Holmes into a fine consistent relief pitcher after the Pirates gave him 2110 chances to do so then they have a chance with Brubaker.
mlb1225
Holmes always had outstanding stuff. Someone asked me what I thought about Holmes at the time and I remember saying he had 80 grade stuff, but 20 grade control. I don’t know if I could say the same about Brubaker. Maybe 40 to 45 grade stuff and 55 grade command.
Joe says...
That’s a spot on assessment of Holmes. It’s nerve wracking to watch him close out a game.
pando8888
Is Mike Clevinger still available? How much would he cost?
Mendoza Line 215
Pirates should sign him as their #5 as Falter is only acceptable as a long reliever.
panj341
Almost anyone out there is better than Falter including some AAA and foreign pitchers.
Rishi
The pursuit of finding bad luck in stats will almost always prove (seemingly) fruitful (to some degree anyway). It favors the K tho, so of course his case looks intriguing (especially since he doesn’t BB a ton). I too find that many pitchers with better underlying metrics struggle against lefties. It’s a potential hole in many metrics since the underlying stats are contradictory to the basic ones without that context explaining how someone could seem to be decent but still struggle mightily repeatedly in situations. It makes the stats appear fluky when they really likely aren’t. Which is one reason why we need to always look at contact quality especially and splits (as a finishing piece to the puzzle) for pitchers (not just K, BB, HR/9). Any stat that doesn’t consider contact quality is dubious. I never understand how FIP can be said to cut things down to what is in a pitchers control yet not take into account any contact except HR. A pitcher has nearly as much control over a hard hit ball as they do over a batter swinging and missing.
alumofuf
9 wins & 28 loses and this is a good pickup? Has he had injuries his whole brief career?
mlb1225
Yeah, but 9-28 on some really bad Pirates teams. He’s a solid #4 pitcher when healthy.
TheMan 3
exactly, mlb1225. The teams he played on endured 2-100 loss seasons
Joe says...
No, he’s played on bad teams. I’m not the most analytical minded guy but I know enough to know that wins and losses usually tells nothing about a pitcher.
TheMan 3
If your team isn’t scoring enough runs to win games, the pitching has to be almost perfect to keep them in the game
Edde1968
I thought they were mentioning the 1980 movie Brubaker starring Robert Redford. The film was awesome if anyone remembers.
TheMan 3
It’s one of my favorite Redford movies and he’s been in numerous films that were great
Mendoza Line 215
Alum-mlb and Joe are both right.He is a fairly good #5 on a good team.But that assumes that he comes back physically and learns from his new pitching coach.
joew
Yanks get what hopefully will be a year and a half of a decent rotation arm, probably backend if he gets back to near full health. and bonus pool.
Pirates get ?????
PTBNL is probably pretty good. Not like a top 10 elite guy but a top 100 maybe.
Rice looks like a decent target. 1B hopefully as well as emergency catcher?. but with the amount given up hopefully higher ranked player would be nice.
Face it. JT didn’t have much of a future with pittsburgh this year, maybe not next year either. Might as well ensure that roster spot is open later in the year so you don’t have to worry about it.
YourDreamGM
Top 100 would be impressive. I wouldn’t give that. Cashman doesn’t like to part with those guys. I would predict young raw upside. So young and raw they had to give the Pirates time to scout them more and choose who they want.
joew
Young decent upside is nice to have. Someone to stash a way and come out of ‘no where’ in a few years to get in some top prospect lists 🙂
In the pirates current position for this trade i’d want a close to MLB with moderate floor. Preferably at a position of need. In the nearish future.. which is why i mention rice.
They already traded some names, would be nice to see who is in that bucket Ben can pull out of. Wouldn’t surprise me if that bucket quality is tied to any possible setbacks JT might have in recovery.
YourDreamGM
Rice would be a nice get. Cherington will take the best return possible. Named later makes my mind go to the Yankees wouldn’t part with near ready talent that most pirates scouts have seen at some point so they got a handful of younger guys they will look at closely and choose. Could be recovery performance base. My mind just went to needs more scouting.
TheMan 3
or the player who they receive in return becomes himself a PTBN later at the deadline
YourDreamGM
A+ for Nuttings account. Don’t have to pay JT and don’t have to spend 500k on prospects.
Interesting to see ptbnl. Brubaker was just depth. 4 or 5 starter. Hopefully Yankees can get a bit more out of him. Burrows Skenes Solometo should all be available same time he would have came back.
User 3815330533
Welcome back
Disagree only in this:
If Skenes, Jones, Burrows et al show what they can do at this level, I agree
Point is, they haven’t.
If anything, a healthy Brubaker would have brought back more. This was a mindless dump off. Nothing more
Mendoza Line 215
Tired- Hopefully not a mindless dumpoff like Marte and Bell trades were.
If BC gets a fairly good young player in return it could be a win win trade.
YourDreamGM
Marte Bell had to go. Needed to decrease win total for draft picks and let Bob make more $. Marte return was fair. Malone was a late 1st round talent. Peguero was a top 100 prospect at one point. I haven’t given up on him yet but most prospects fail. Bell trade was a lil light but little or no attendance hurts trade value. Part of the trade is to increase fan interest and sell tickets. Most teams didn’t want Bell at 1b. He wasn’t consistent. Yean had some raw talent. Crowe had a sick change up. Bens weakest trade but probably took what was available. Cutting payroll and losing games made it well worth trading him.
YourDreamGM
Yankees may have paid what JT would have been worth at deadline or off season. Or close enough to it. Pirates had little incentive to trade him now for a much lesser return. Yankees may have wanted $ to sign someone and or didn’t want competition in July for adding pitching depth for stretch run.
Won’t tell fans what to do. But Cherington has fielded solid teams 2 years in a row. Pulled off one of the fastest rebuilds ever. Built a top 5 farm system with the best pitching talent in Pirates history. Might want to give him the benefit of doubt that he got something he liked to make this trade.
Even if you think JT is better than his numbers suggest you can’t expect these other teams to realize it. They are dumb. They gave away Marco Gonzales for free twice. Let the Pirates sign the best free agent in baseball because they wouldn’t go more than 8 million.
User 3815330533
You’re missing the point. Why trade him now when really, your starting pitching is almost entirely a hodge podge of “ifs?”
Given the return here, his value would only improve if healthy. Meanwhile, the starters who are here could sink or swim while the young studs and surgically repaired all align to form a bonafide staff later this season
Not that I’m a big Brubaker fan. Just seems like they jumped the gun
YourDreamGM
Didn’t miss your point. They got a offer now that they liked. That’s it. End of story. Something about a bird in hand. By the time JT gets back who knows what the situation will be. They might be healthy and won’t need him. They might be out of contention and won’t care who the starters are. It’s hard to imagine that they are in the thick of a playoff race and it all comes down to JT. If anything they would trade for someone better. Look at his stats. He hasn’t been someone who moves the needle. He will have to build up and be on a innings count. You are thinking they traded away their depth. You should be thinking what did NY give to make Ben trade JT and 500 grand international $. What are the odds that 1 back end starter coming off tj will make a meaningful difference? I love depth but not going to worry about this one.
User 4095290658
There’s not much room on the high minors rotations in the Pirates system either. Brubaker needing starts in Indy would no doubt be clogging up the pipeline and taking up a 40-man spot. There’s a roster crunch coming for BC and now JT is one less guy to worry about.
Mendoza Line 215
Dream-Not sure what you mean by “solid teams two years in a row”.I presume that you mean this year’s team which is only two games into this season and last year’s team which won 76 games.
Like disagreeing on the definition of rebuilding,we will have to respectfully disagree that 76 wins on a team with often suspect fundamentals and the worst hitting coach in baseball is solid.
And if other teams are so dumb why do the Pirates consistently have losing records?And I presume that you mean Perez in your last statement and for the money he may be a good find but the best this year?
With all due respect I think that many of the long term veteran Pirate fans on here lost their rose colored glasses many many years ago..
Mendoza Line 215
But what are the odds that a non top 100 level low minor leaguer is ever going to add to the Pirates?
Much less than Brubaker would,and these vaunted current pitching prospects will take time to adjust to the MLs.
How close is Priester to doing so?
The more that I think about it the more that I realize that this is first and foremost a salary dump pure and simple.
Mendoza Line 215
AAA has the retreads that could help the Pirates but we will know whether they can within 5 weeks.If they cannot Skenes will be up health being good and Brubaker could easily fit in for 3 or 4 starts which is all that he would need.
They will not keep him at all if he cannot improve from his previous performance.
User 4095290658
If BC had to sacrifice Brubaker to sign MA Taylor then I’m on board 100%.
Let’s see what kind PTBNL comes back before passing judgement.
YourDreamGM
76 wins is solid under the circumstances. Injuries will happen but losing 3 of your 6 best starters to tj is on the extreme high end. Not many position players miss an entire season and for it to have been Cruz was a huge blow.
Priester isn’t even in their plans. They have so many better better prospects. If he somehow figures it out great it’s a bonus.
Perez was my number 1 free agent. Sure some guys probably put up better numbers but they cost 3 4 5 6 7 times as much. He may bust. Anything can happen. It’s not an exact science. But my projections had him as the best free agent pitcher per dollar. He has looked like it so far.
Pirates lose when they want to and win when they want to with the exception of 2016. A lot needed to go wrong to keep them from winning and it did. They tried in 2013 2014 2015 and won. 2017 they knew they were in trouble. Won in 2018 but it wasn’t because they were trying hard. 2020 2021 2022 they were trying to lose. They will be trying the rest of this decade and should succeed most if not all years. You can’t predict 3 tjs or Cole getting hurt with Liriano Locke falling off a cliff rapid decline.
Mendoza Line 215
It was embarrassing to be.a Pirate fan for those three years.
They were so bad basically because they were cheap and so bad.
They did not have any depth last year and an injury or two derailed their season,although they did very well with the makeshift pitching that they did have.
The division is for the taking this year and Brubaker provided depth.If the cavalry do not come over the hill well and if they have injuries they will be in the same boat as last year.
Priester has been heralded and I agree that he may not be an answer but they seem to be giving him every chance.
I hope that you are right about the young pitchers and we shall soon see how they are doing in AA and AAA.
But serious arm injuries are common and pitching depth is always needed.
YourDreamGM
Pirates fans that think like that deserve to be embarrassed. Getting 70 wins instead of 60 is the same thing imo. Getting 70 wins would cost you Suwinski Bednar Endy Davis Skenes TJ Bubba. So instead of winning 80 90 100 games the rest of this decade you would just keep winning 70. Why would any owner want to lose $. It’s a business. Bob will make so much more $ by tanking those 3 years. And winning wasn’t possible those 3 years. Pirates did their rebuild just as I advised. Rebuild is over. Bob is going to rake in the $ with over 2 million attendance and playoffs revenue.
Mendoza Line 215
Tanking gets you the #1 pick and nothing more.
That is the difference between the worst team and the best team.
Marte and Bell were traded for nothing.
The first three they got for Musgrove and Frazier.
They lucked out on Skenes.
BC did well with Davis and Bubba and TJ and we will see how they turn out.
This team has proven absolutely nothing at this point.It is Year #5.of the rebuild
The Dbacks went to the WS last year after losing over 100 games a few years ago.
And only you think that they will ever win 100 games in a season.
It is a dream for all of us but not all of us are completely fooled.
YourDreamGM
Tanking builds your farm period. Trade all your expiring players for more years. Besides getting the elite talent a top 1 3 5 pick provides you also get a larger draft pool. You can bribe highschool players to sign instead of going to college. Lower payroll allows you to invest elsewhere or make your greedy owner happy.
If you are a large city you don’t have to tank but even they trade away expiring players when they aren’t contending. Pirates can’t buy a winner so tanking and building farm system is the only known way to contend.
Rebuilding isn’t fun for most. But if Pirates are paying attention to me or Tampa they won’t have to. A reload here or a mini rebuild will be all they need to do.
Rebuild is over and it only lasted 2 years. Trading 1 player a corner outfielder isn’t a rebuild. Rebuild didn’t start until they traded Bell Frazier Musgrove Taillon Stallings. That’s a rebuild. Rebuild is over. No one left to trade. Teams too good to lose 100 games. Now the rebuild might have failed and a new gm will need to do another one but it’s over. I think it was a success. But no matter what it’s over.
Mendoza Line 215
We may have different definitions of tanking..It works in basketball and for quarterbacks in football.Not nearly as much in baseball.
Small market teams have no choice but to trade expiring contracts.That is not tanking.
No one wants to be caught in a do loop of 68-78 loss seasons.
The Pirates just had 3 1/2 years of 100 loss seasons.They would have been getting high draft choices because they were bad anyway.
You are not a Pirate fan.You do this as a hobby.Many posters on here posting on Pirates threads have been one for 20-40 or 50 or 60 years.Hopefully none of them were happy with being the worst team in baseball for 3 1/2 years.
When your friend Bob gives away players when he does not need to it invites 100 loss years,
Any additional improvement is minimal,and negated by having a poor development group of coaches.
A rebuild means developing the young players that you have acquired to get the team to a point of being competitive.
The jury is still out on that one.I think and hope that it will be as BC has an eye for drafting talent.Whether he can develop it is another story.
YourDreamGM
I’m a huge Pirates fan. No team uses my philosophy as closely as the Pirates. Generally everyone thinks they are idiots and losers and going to be awful forever. I get to tell them how Perez was the best free agent signing. How great the pitchers are in the farm system. How they are going to make numerous playoffs the rest of this decade. Etc etc etc. I’m going to look like the genius I am. No rose colored glasses needed. I’m that confident in my abilities. From laughing stock of mlb to dominating it. It’s happening. Already happened. Just only a select few are capable of seeing it. Theman is far away, he might be the final hold out. Mendoza isn’t close but there is some hope. Tired old dude though…. I think I almost got him free from the Matrix. I think before the season is over or late 2025 at latest he is going to be A+++++ everything the Pirates do. By 2026 he is going to be assistant dream gm. Pirates sign 30 something lefty pitcher coming off a awful 2025 season to a 1 year deal. Tired old dude going to comment A+++++++ for the Pirates. Pirates trade all star closer Bednar for 3 Dominican teenagers. A+++++++
Tanking works great in mlb. Worked great for Houston Baltimore. Worked great for Pittsburgh, you just need to wait to see the results in the win totals.
YourDreamGM
People are going to say Nutting should just go big once and sign Juan Soto. Tiredoldestdude is going to be like they already have Juan Soto with the Suwinski Joe platoon.
Mendoza Line 215
No fan wants their team to lose,and especially to want to lose.
Sorry,but I doubt that Perez will get any Cy Young votes.
You might want to run it by Tired in renaming him as he has had several already.
Houston and Baltimore drafted well and were awful teams in the first place.The Royals will improve this year because of Witt and free agents.
I concede that BC has drafted well but we will see how the young players are developed.
Nobody will say Soto should come to the Pirates.And nobody but you will compare him to Connor Joe.
And the Pirates May become a good team but never one that dominates baseball.
TheMan 3
Jones showed why they kept him on the roster in today’s game
YourDreamGM
Yep. Anyone who watched him last year in minors or this spring isn’t surprised. They didn’t have a choice. He was so good. His stats were amazing. And he didn’t have any competition whatsoever. Maybe he hits some adversity and they send him down for a few weeks. More likely his innings get to high and they shut him down. They think they are protecting the arm and lets face it would love the extra year of control.
Skenes is the opposite. They are limiting his innings early so he can go longer into the season. If he keeps dominating and he should he will be up sooner than later.
User 3815330533
Agreed. Solid showing. Very impressed. Maybe it reinforces your idea as to why Brubaker was dealt now
Mendoza Line 215
Skenes will be on an innings limit like Strasburg was.
He is too good to chance injury.
They may send him down later in the season and maybe bring him back towards the end if they need him.
YourDreamGM
I don’t think Jones has much to do with Brubaker trade. I think #1 major factor was they were able to get a player they wanted. #2 was they don’t need Brubaker. They will either be out of contention and losing for slightly better draft pick will be most beneficial or in contention and will need someone to start playoff games. A over 4 era guy isn’t moving the needle. The Braves just gave us one of those for free. Remember the the Tyler Anderson return? Philly gave us one with a lot more years and left handed for Castro. JT might be better than that last one but not needle moving better. #3 it’s 2 million dollars. They were paying the guy for 2 months. And like I said likely 2 months that are irrelevant or 2 months you need a better arm. He might end up being a better arm and good for NY if they get more from him. Depth is nice but by the time JT returns it will be trade season. They can trade for depth if needed.
YourDreamGM
He had his innings limited already. 5 or 7 all of last year. 1 or 2 in spring training games. 3 today. 5 innings might be his max all season long. Washington should have saved their innings for the playoffs.
YankeesBleacherCreature
The int’l pool money is the real get here. The Pirates get to take him off their books and receive a PTNBL who probably isn’t anyone noteworthy.
YourDreamGM
They could have just non tender him. They didn’t give 500k to get a non noteworthy. You might have never heard of them but it should be someone of value.
PiratePartyTime412
Yankees love taking our Garbage just to shave em down
fbf923
Opening up a roster spot for Bauer. 😉
Salzilla
First time I’ve had a chance to peak at MLBTR today and didn’t hear about this move until Alexa told me lol. Anyway, not sure what the consensus is here, but it’s not a bad option for the second half. Kind of a cheap jump on the trade deadline.
Yankee Clipper
What worries me far more is the closer status. That is becoming more and more a necessity. I don’t know how good this team will be yet, but there are some notable differences, obviously.
However, if they’re really competitive as they approach the trade deadline, Cashman must acquire a reliable closer. Heart attack Holmes is too inconsistent for that role.
Salzilla
Yep, it’s why I wanted Hader so bad. I don’t think Holmes is it and if he’s not replaced this season, I doubt he’s coming back.
JoeBrady
I don’t get this for the Pirates. They paid $550k of international spending to get rid of a guy that could be a #4/5? The PTBNL better be somewhat decent.
Mendoza Line 215
Joe-As Dream GM first poiinted out it is probably one of a handful of A players that need to be scouted before picking one.
BC has been good at drafting but none of the young lower level players that he has received in trades have worked out.
He needs to find one like his predecessor found one in O’Neil Cruz.
Or at least someone who can be good enough to add to the ML team.
Prospects are fine but they are Suspects until they prove themselves in the MLs.
RShore05
Another nice solid pick up by Cashman and the Yankees. Adding guy’s like Burti and Brubaker definitely aren’t needle moving acquisitions, but they’re moves that can/should make a solid impact on a team with WS aspirations over the course of 162. Very solid and cheap pickups by the Yanks. I have a good feeling about their potential this season. IF Cole’s able to come back fully healthy then I think the Yanks can/will win not only the AL East crown, but they’ll be representing the American League in the Fall Classic this season.
jerseyjohn
Here’s a brief portion of what Axisa had to say in his Patreon. For Yankee fans I’d highly recommend getting it (after you buy you mlb traderumors subscription of course)
“A sinker, two high-spin breaking balls, an occasionally average changeup, and control that is at least average seems like a decent foundation, no? I’d be curious to see what pitching coach Matt Blake and the rest of the organizational pitching gurus could do with Brubaker. I mean, the Pirates couldn’t make Holmes and his 97 mph sinker good. There’s probably more here than Brubaker has shown.”
AwsumPawsm
As much as I liked Brubaker, I think this move makes sense dependent on the PTBNL.
Hoping it is Ben Rice. 1B/C prospect out of Somerset in the AA. Kid has some sneaky power and also has positional flexibility. We need more hitting prospects in our future ranks and definitely need a future 1B. Not saying he will end up that way, but there could be a shot.
Piratepete7
Look at the Yankees churning through fringe major leaguers.
How the mighty have fallen.