Pirates catcher Jason Delay underwent surgery to repair the meniscus in his right knee, the team informed reporters (via the MLB.com injury tracker). It’ll be six weeks before he’s cleared to return to baseball activities. He’ll surely need to embark on a minor league rehab stint once he’s ready for game action.
Delay only made one appearance before going on the shelf. He’s currently on the 10-day injured list but should move to the 60-day IL once the team needs to create a 40-man roster spot. The righty-hitting backstop got into 70 games a year ago, hitting .251/.319/.347 in 187 trips. That’s below-average but hardly disastrous production for a solid defensive catcher.
The Bucs lost presumptive catcher Endy Rodríguez to an offseason injury that required season-ending elbow surgery. They signed Yasmani Grandal to a $2.5MM free agent deal. Plantar fasciitis sent him to the IL before Opening Day. Delay’s injury almost immediately put a third catcher on the shelf. The Pirates acquired former #2 overall pick Joey Bart in a DFA trade with the Giants. He’s splitting time with another one-time top draftee, Henry Davis, behind the plate.
Davis has had a very tough start to the year, hitting .173/.286/.231 in 64 plate appearances. He has nevertheless remained the clear #1 option above Bart, who has only gotten three starts. Bart is out of minor league options, so the Bucs could be faced with a tough roster decision once Grandal is ready to return. For the time being, the Pirates figure to stick with their duo of former top picks.
The Pirates also provided an update on starter Marco Gonzales. The southpaw went on the 15-day IL over the weekend after he was diagnosed with a forearm strain. Gonzales will be completely shut down from throwing for a few weeks, but there’s presently no consideration of surgery. Pittsburgh recalled righty Quinn Priester from Triple-A to start tonight’s game against the Red Sox. He could hold a rotation spot while Gonzales is on the shelf.
I thought they might Delay the surgery
Instead they’re surgery-ing the Delay.
Bobby Dalbec
This team couldn’t hit a ball off of a T for a single or extra base hit at this point of the young season
And they average at least 10 ks a game
Henry Davis should return to the minors once Grandal comes back from the IL, he’s regressed from last year and take most of the hitting coach staff with him
How can an entire team be in a perpetual hitting slump and repeatedly?
Well, the Pirates are trying to have a player development system that can draft, and develop young top prospects and lower level prospects that can be called up to replenish the big league roster, while simultaneously spending in moderation without having to sign long-term free agents, just like Tampa has been able to do. Not impossible, but it will take time to get that into place. Unfortunately, I think Nutting wants to see results this year, and that might happen this season.
LOL. While I like your synopsis, it reminds me that this is a franchise in perpetual rebuild. Two years away from being two years away
Yes, and their player development department has continually failed them for years now. Hard to figure which department is worse; player development or scouting.
We keep hearing about phenoms coming up through the system and yet, they get here and usually have a season long pass on the Indy-Pittsburgh shuttle.
I like Jones. I hope Skenes will be a big timer.
But where position players are concerned, there is no one who has come through the system and looks to be a star for years to come
Whoever told you phenoms are coming lied to you. Hitting development is awful. A good but disappointing compared to expectations TJ is coming. Few nice contact guys are coming. They got some upside lottery tickets. But the only phenoms coming are pitchers. I don’t know what a hitting coach can do but Haines hasn’t gotten results. Needs to go just to shake things up. Send Davis to AAA. Cruz can join him. Lots of guys don’t hustle and or have a attitude problem but Cruz isn’t producing enough to have it. I can’t recall so many players slumping at same time for so long as last May June. Another long slump seems to be happening now. I can live with Sheltie. Cherington is good. But I would fire both for not firing Haines. Just my overreaction. Hitting instruction at mlb level isn’t my expertise. Would be nice though if Shelton Cherington would defend Haines. He seems awful to me. So tell me why he is good. Or tell Nutting and he can come out and say as a fan he felt the same but after talking to Cherington I came away with Haines is doing a good job and is our man. Something anything.
Only 3 players have a 700 ops. 4 if you count Olivares 46 abs. 2023 6 players. No 800 ops. All of those players had 700 ops years before Haines except Suwinski. 1 player mostly developed by another team. Reynolds looked best before Haines. Hayes looked best before Haines and when he went behind Haines back to another hitting coach.
Scouting is fine. Easiest of the two. Mph and spin. Cherington has won most his trades and majority by a lot. They had to draft Skenes and TJ. They seem to have done well with rounds 2 3 4.
Pitching development has been alright. Thanks to the scouting they have fantastic arms to work with.
Hitting though see below. They haven’t developed anyone. Gonzales had a major flaw when drafted. We will see if it gets fixed. Head major flaw not fixed. CSN major flaw. Never fixed. Bae major flaw never fixed. Hayes flaw only fixed in real small sample sizes and not by Haines.
Only thing worse than hitting coachinh is the defense and base running. And the worst is catching coaching. I off season did for Davis what 2 years of Pirates coaching couldn’t.
Rebuild is over. Rebuilds are easy. Sure many teams fail but because they have idiots running them. Trading away all your veteran talent for prospects and drafting high is the easy part. Development is the hard part. Trading prospects for veteran talent is hard. Like Boston needed to do. Nutting might need to hire another gm to finish the job.
It’s either the coaching or the talent the gm provided. YourDreamGM would blame the coaching and try some new guys or gals before taking the fall themselves.
If scouting is fine, explain their repeated failures in drafting position players? Isn’t that what scouts are responsible for?
Pitching prospects are exceptional, hitting prospects are horrible
Either the scouting is fine or it’s not and with recent results, scouting is average. You can’t describe scouting as fine when the position players drafted don’t meet the same criteria as the pitchers drafted
What happened to the personal hitting coach that Cruz hired two years ago?
He needs to be rehired
Hayes used the instruction from Indy’s hitting coach last year but he left the organization at the end of 2023
And TJ won’t be here until July or August, by then the season is over and it will be another promise of next year which never seems to happen because of injuries and failed player development
It’s a recurring cycle with this organization
When can’t or won’t (Nutting) $pend, then you have no other option than to develop your players early BEFORE they’ll leave for greener pastures after the Control Years are over? Small market teams with limited resources CAN be successful. Just not a lot of margins for error
Nutting allowed Cherington to increase payroll to roughly $100 million dollars
Problem is, the players BC signed aren’t worth the paper that their contract is written on
The bullpen was supposed to be their strength and it’s been anything but
It’s probably time to boot the entire coaching staff, after + years, the players have regressed
Given that Termarr was at the lower levels and hitting .191 a couple days ago, I’m guessing that given this pace and the logjam in front of him, you’re not going to see him this year
They spent the entire season in 2023 giving their young players the opportunity to win a middle infield spot. Everyone and their grandmother got a shot. They’re still at square one
Either I’ve been misreading Dream for years or he has sunken into our frustration level. He and I still disagree about the idea of ‘rebuild’ but so be it. I look at it this way: there is literally no position player here who could start for one of the big time contenders. I used to put Reynolds and perhaps Hayes solely on the basis of glove as two guys who can start anywhere. I just don’t believe that’s so anymore
What’s more troubling to me is that no young position player stacks up well against similarly aged players in places like Baltimore or Cincinnati, among many others. We all point to player development. Sure. But the scouting department brought these guys in, first and foremost
I was never fooled into thinking this squad would contend this year. I am now rethinking next year as being a break out. Dream touches on lack of hustle. THANK YOU. Someone noticed. 20 games in and there’s no hustle, no passion, no urgency. You’d think this is late September.
Lastly, I’m not about to give player development applause for pitcher development. For who, exactly? Priester? Ortiz?
Perhaps Oviedo before injury
Jones and Skenes came here as the real deals. Let’s see how things progress in a few years
If I recall correctly, #1 draft pick Kris Benson was a can’t miss prospect yet 2 years after making his major league debut he had TJ surgery and was never the same
Skenes and Jones are indeed the real deal but I’m concerned that one or both will eventually have to have TJ surgery from being either overworked or mishandled
No offense, @tiredolderdude, as much as I respect and appreciate your viewpoints, the logic of next year being a contending team, next year never arrives
If the rebuild is indeed over as Dream and even Cherington have said, they should be contending this year
But…. there’s too many issues that must be addressed and I have serious doubts whether this management can successfully overcome them
Yeah, I’d hoped that the end of last season would carry over into this season. And I thought there would be some semblance of evolution going into 2025. As a response to all those saying, “This is the year,” I said no, they’re a year away
But I agree with you, TheMan3. There are too many issues here that will preclude them contending. I mean, how? The entire division is improving while the Pirates tread water?
What I was referring to about Jones and Skenes is that drafting can’t miss pitchers who already are hitting 98-100 on the gun is a bit different than drafting a catcher number 1, who has defensive deficiencies, or a shortstop who has a propensity to strike out a lot. In the case of the former, yeah, maybe you teach spin pitches or strategies. In the case of the latter, you literally build a player
In other words, the jury is out on the young guns in the Pirates system. But where players are concerned, they’ve failed miserably.
And to me at least, it starts with mental approach to everything
This afternoon lineup is what I expect from Shelton though I get that he wants to shake things up
For as surprisingly well Williams has been with his bat, Cruz remains in the lineup. And batting Oliveras first is a mystery
He freely swings at just about every pitch thrown in his direction.
The Red Sox pitcher has an ERA of .042 and is a strike out pitcher. The Pirates batting order is loaded with batters who strike out often
At least Davis is sitting so Bart can play
What is the over under for total strikeouts by Pirate batters?
Disconcerting times for management. They’ve placed a great deal of hope in guys like Cruz and Bednar as two faces of the rebirth here. I’m sure they’re preaching patience. What else can they do?
Cruz reminds me a great deal of Gregory Polanco in this regard. A young guy with a great deal of promise who showed some flashes.
Jeez, I hope he can get right the ship
As for today, is Russell Wilson available?
At this rate I’d take Jack Wilson over Cruz. At least he knew how to bunt effectively and didn’t strike out with any frequency
Cruz hustles like he got a big extension. Acuna who was a stud you could live with. Cruz right now you are hoping can be as good as Polanco Gallo. Tellez runs to 1st like a guy who got a 10 year deal vs 1 year prove it or will be a minor league contract in 2025.
Priester Ortiz Contreras all stopped throwing hard. I have no idea why. Neither do pirates coaching. Apparently no coach does. If it happened to me I would see every coach i could during off season. They are actually development wins. Contreras was better than i thought he would be when was a Yankee. Ortiz came out of nowhere. All the sudden started throwing harder. All the sudden stopped.
Personally I forgotten all about Contreras Priester Ortiz Bae. I gave a bit more hope for Gonzales Peguero. But if none of those guys never amount to anything I won’t be surprised. I hope coaching improves them but I am not counting on them being good players moving forward. Maybe Haines will surprise us!
TJ has taken the Haines approach. Lots of walks and lots of strike outs. Gallo at 2b. He isn’t a scouting mistake. Read every scouting report from when he is in highschool. You won’t find anything negative other than he can’t play ss. Worthy of #1 pick. Best prep hitter in the draft. Best prep hitter in last 10 years. The famous 1 scout said he has Vlad SR hitting tool with Wade Boggs plate approach.
Maybe they’ll turn it around at some point this season, but what more can be said? Reynolds and Hayes are about all they have offensively.
Cruz is lost and Suwinski, with the bases loaded, can’t lift a fly ball.
And John Wehner opines that “maybe it’s not being able to see the ball coming out of the pitcher’s hand” with the shadows and all
Five minutes later, Yoshida launches a two run homer. After Keller—you know, the ace and all—walks a guy who isn’t hitting .200
Sell those tickets, John
I think that’s enough for me
Rebuilds are over and teams don’t contend all the time. Royals Tigers had 2 3 year head start on pirates and look no better or worse.
Tj surgery is better nowadays. And there are no can’t miss prospects especially in baseball. Benson is too far in the past for me to say if he was worthy of being called can’t miss or not.
Pirates were ready to contend last year. You can’t lose 3 pitchers to tj and contend. Well actually they could have but on top of that Contreras Ortiz lost their velocity. Then that May June slump was the worst I have ever seen anywhere.
There’s some great pitchers coming. But Perez Gonzales and even Falter have put up great numbers. Bats are the problem. There aren’t many coming up from the farm to the rescue. If Cruz Suwinski Davis 2b don’t hit contention is never coming.
Yep, and this is where our friend Mendoza would disagree with you about “rebuild.” Well, me too
Can you really call a rebuild complete if you’ve replaced lower wrung players with non-performing players?
On paper, they rebuilt the team
And that’s where it ends
Most of these guys aren’t everyday players.
Where do we begin? Tellez? Triolo? Olivares? Bart? Davis? Jack?
Truthfully, other than Reynolds, it’s maddening to watch this team hit?
Glad they got off to a good start this year, albeit a shorter one than last year. But boy, this is again a difficult team to watch
Dream, the problem with your scenario from last year actually comes in your second posting. That is, even if their starters were intact last year, where the runs going to come from
This has been a replay so far. Good starts. Lousy offense. Leaky relievers.
But again, a staff of Skenes, Jones, Keller, and a couple more had better be able to go 7+ innings every time out and have ERA’s around 2 if we are talking “contend” with the current make up. And that’s not gonna happen
Looking more and more like a repeat of 2023 collapse. Only solution is fire the manager since you can’t fire the players.
Another double digit strike out performance by this offense. Bases loaded one out and Jack is swinging at pitches nowhere near the plate.
Cruz adds 2 more ks to his league lead
While they did out hit the Sox, other than Triolo’s run scoring single, they couldn’t do squat with runners in scoring position
That’s 8 losses out of their last 10 games
Off topic, has anyone heard from Mendoza?
We have been waiting for 3 years for Haines to surprise us. If it hasn’t happened yet, it probably won’t
There’s a valid reason why the Brewers fired Haines and there’s one for him to get fired here.
Unfortunately it’s complete. No one left to trade. Lose for 3 more seasons then you can trade the players from the previous rebuild Bednar Suwinski Davis Keller Reynolds Hayes Cruz
@Tiredolderdude and I mention this frequently
The Bucs are in perpetual rebuild mode every year and are themselves to blame for it
Player development lacks depth and formative instruction. Drafting middle infielders when a first baseman is widely needed.
Other than Skenes, Cherington has failed to draft impact players
Unless Gonzalez and Davis turn their major league offense around, and this current year, Nutting will be looking for new management for 2025.
I see him losing his patience at some point this year
I liked Mark Madden’s column in this morning’s Trib. It’s like he reads the comments here
As for Nutting, every spring he says all the right things about winning and being competitive. But it’s like Dubas and the Pens or Rooney and the Steelers. Good PR. Nothing more
Nowadays, sports is about the game day experience, from tailgating to the food and the gimmicks at games
Fandom means buying into all of that and not critiquing a team’s play or player’s abilities
Just look at the comments you see here, oddly quiet these past few days
In other words, I don’t put much stock in Nutting caring about anything except his bottom line.
I’m ok with a .500 team. I’ve resigned myself to the idea. But jeez, it would be a plus if this team wasn’t so ‘ok’ with losing
I just now read that article in the Trib and even an outspoken critic like Mark Maddon got it right about the lack of player development in this organization using Cruz’ regressive performance as a 25 year old with major league experience
36ks vs 4 walks is evidence that player development has failed this once promising individual.
I don’t disagree with your assessment of Nutting’s only concern except that if people don’t attend games because of the recurring offensive issues, he might start paying attention
I get why Shelton keeps penciling Cruz’ name in the lineup but at some point if Cruz doesn’t improve the organization must consider a demotion to Indy as he’s only hurting the team with his failure to improve
I find myself in agreement with Madden in most instances, and I’m referring to his columns. (His radio show monologues are good but few seem to understand that his interactions with callers is really just him playing a role)
I like his take that Cruz “doesn’t know how to play baseball.” And his query, “ Is winning important? Or is it better to have 100% healthy arms on a losing team?” in regards to pulling Jones early or keeping Skenes on the farm
Exactly
They signed Hayes as “the cornerstone of the franchise”. They followed with the signings of Reynolds and Keller. While agree with you 100% about Cruz, I’m thinking it would take an elongated slump into mid season before the Pirates wave the white flag and put him in the Indy shuttle. If there really is a face of the franchise right now, the poster child for a brighter future, it’s how they’ve portrayed Cruz. Like Polanco, maybe they jumped the gun. At least they didn’t make the same mistake of signing him long term as they did with Polanco
Upon opening this site on my iphone, immediately what strikes me are the number of teams bringing players up from their respective minor league teams.
The number is astounding, except for the Bucs who seem to be content with the status quo.
Bae is eligible to be activated from the IL and is playing better than several of the current players on the parent club
Which is part of the problem with this manager, he won’t activate Bae until a current player gets injured, instead of putting the best team on the field to win games
Cruz couldn’t even catch a pop up in the infield today despite being directly underneath it.
Base running blunders, errors, bad pitching, a catcher interference call and lack of offense.
Six consecutive losses, it’s an embarrassing time to be a Bucs fan
I will say this again, how can every player be in a slump at the same time and repeatedly?
Shelton and Cherington need to make changes to the coaching staff starting with Haines.
Taking pitches to get to the bullpen earlier is not working. He also teaches them to swing in an upward motion. That explains the pop ups.
On the bright side, what there is, Suwinski hit the ball hard and Cutch also hit the ball well, even though he didn’t get any hits
And both Jack and Rowdy got hits off a lef
One measly run. Embarrassing to be sure
They have built this culture here—kind of like the young Orioles in reverse—of losing and being ok with it
Harken back to the last game of the O’s series—their shortstop made a helluva stop, diving to get the bag at 2nd but throwing wildly at 1st allowing the Pirates to score the winning run
Kid was beside himself for making that throw
Their expectation is to win every time out
I’d love to see that fire here but it’s like watching zombies. All of them
No idea where you start to rebuild the culture. Leyland is retired. Billy Martin is deceased.
But hey, we have pierogi races to fall back on
Don’t forget Fireworks night and Bobblehead giveaways
Tired-Yes,we disagree with Dream on this,but I have come to conclude that his definition is just more basic.
Ours is that a rebuild produces a mountain.
His is that a rebuild can produce just a slight molehill.
In the Pirates’ case,I hope that their rebuild does not produce a valley.
Just a different definition at this point.
Welcome back, old friend
I’m interested in Dream’s crystal ball.
Let’s say this team continues to flounder and is well out of it come trade deadline time. Then what?
Burn down the “rebuild” for prospects? Reynolds, Keller, Bednar, Chapman and perhaps even Hayes become tradeable?
Or do they point to ‘25 as “the year” despite a disappointing ‘24?
Rentals will be traded if team is losing. Chapman Tellez Perez Gonzales if healthy I haven’t heard anything but arm health is not good more times than not. Taylor Borucki. Maybe Bednar. Would take new gm to trade long term guys as Cherington would want to convince Nutting team will contend next year. They would be negative trades. No team is going to pay for 4 5 years worth of talent. You will get half their value. New gm probably keeps them. They would get new manager. New coaches. Free agents and trades to add. Rebuild is over. They have a top 10 farm system. Enough pitching to contend.
Someone needs fired. If players don’t like Haines it’s easy call. If they do like him that works as well. They are responsible for the man losing his job. If Shelton Cherington won’t fire him then fire them. They are replaceable. Would be a good look for Nutting. Show fans you are paying attention and want to win.
Things might turn around with Haines. All these players have been productive in the past. Milwaukee is smarter than Pittsburgh and they got rid of the guy. Can’t let the same thing happen 2 years in a row. If they don’t start hitting he has got to go.
I always appreciate your views Dream but there’s something obviously missing with this team’s inconsistency on offense.
It can’t be all of the players, so it’s obvious that the hitting coach has a different approach to how the players should be performing
He was fired by the Brewers over their own lackluster of offense and they always have a much better group to work with. If he couldn’t fix their offense he certainly isn’t going to fix ours
Thanks for the prognostication
Whether the rebuild is over or not is semantics. That is, if you’re 20 out at the trade deadline and can again load up on prospects, do you go that route and admit that this particular rebuild failed miserably or do you give it another season? For the most part, you’re of the belief that they’d keep the young core in place
Agree with you about Nutting here. To me, all management from Cherington to Shelton and his coaches should go if this style of play continues
Unfortunate that you can’t fire the players. Most here deserve pink slips
I do believe guys like Skenes, Jones , Chandler, Ashcroft, Burrows, Solometo represent a bright future where starting pitching is concerned. But as I’ve asked for the past two seasons when people carp about this team being a contender: where will the runs come from?
To me, other than that core of young pitchers, no one should be untouchable in trades
One year ago today, Shelton was given an extension, due in part to the amazing record 28 games into the season ( 20-8)
Does anyone think that upper management regrets this decision?
I do, but I don’t pay his salary, either in full or directly.
Cutch would retire if they tried to trade him
They won’t trade either Hayes or Reynolds but everyone else would probably get traded, including Bednar and Keller.
And I expect that if Shelton can’t get this season turned around by July, those players will be traded and we will be in yet another rebuild mode, something Pirates fans have grown accustomed to under this ownership
Disagree about Reynolds. The caveat would be outfield depth. They have none. And it appears only Lonnie White at the minor league level. Great scouting system they have But load up on middle infielders. Never have enough
Not sure the .260-hitting Reynolds would bring back a haul of prospects as he would have two years ago but so be it. If the team a doing poorly, why keep him?
And I place Hayes in the same boat. That grumbling about going to a contender late last season was quickly set aside, but you wonder. Good glove who had a nice hot streak at the plate in the second half last year but seriously, if the team is going badly, why keep him?
I’m not a fan of Shelton or any manager nowadays but I said this last year and will repeat: you can’t get blood from a stone. Poor in game strategies, mystery days off, too many gut feelings and disregarding percentages….ok. That’s on him
But this team can go 20-8 from this point on over the next 28 and the fact is, it’d be a facade. The personnel at the MLB level just isn’t that good
Shelton’s most egregious sin is that he can’t get these young players to play with fire. No passion. No guts.
Maybe a Showalter could inspire some of that
But watch young teams in Baltimore, Cincinnati—guys who are young and just establishing themselves—and then watch these zombies
Reynolds Hayes Olivares Joe were all productive before Haines and are the most consistent best bats. Cutch if he fails to be productive it’s because of old age. It’s the young players Haines effects the most and they are the ones doing awful.
As a strike out hater that’s the only Haines improvement I seen. Suwinski no longer hits hrs or hits at all but his strike outs are down drastically.
Rebuild was over in 2022. 2023 they signed too many good free agents and prevented a elite draft pick. During rebuild what did the players traded have in common? 2 years remaining team control. There’s no players left to trade that will move the needle other than Bednar. Trading Reynolds Hayes Keller would be a hard sell to fans but Nutting doesn’t care about that. I think Cherington if he doesn’t succeed will. E kept around too long and then trading those players would be more reasonable. I would bet Cherington is around in 2025. If fired in 2024 the new gm if decent will try to contend. Teams didn’t offer enough to get Cherington to trade Reynolds Keller with 2 years left.
They love Shelton. Just gave him credit for the brilliant idea to limit Jones to 5 innings. He doesn’t make enough $. If they they weren’t pleased they could fire him anytime. No regrets.
Suwinski has improved dramatically, and his well against lefties
Oliveras’ one issue is swinging at just about every pitch thrown in his direction. I am all for being aggressive but you should still be selective in the pitches you swing at
One of the problems with limiting Jones to 5 innings is using the bullpen more frequently and this bullpen, just isn’t good enough to keep the Pirates in a game
Especially when scoring runs is yet another problem
they haven’t had a good player development system since they drafted Cutch nearly 20 years ago.
Look at their first round draft picks over the past decade
Will Craig
Cole Tucker
Tony Sanchez and more recently
Henry Davis
There are exceptions like Gerrit Cole but they traded him even before he hit free agency
And regarding Nutting, he permitted Cherington to increase payroll to $100 million. He’s been patient with this management but if they don’t start to show signs of improvement soon, someone’s head will be on the chopping block
Andy Haines will go first though I would include Derek Shelton too
Need to send some messages. Some guys at triple A are hitting the ball. Cruz make have 250 k’s by the end of the year.
This has be going on for years! Need need better contact hitters. Madlock, Parker,Oliver,Stennett,Garner,Hebner! Somebody step up for God’s sake. Hitting coach isn’t doing his job,or the players aren’t that good. Been Pirates fan since 63 . Life time of losing has taken its toll on me. The fan in me still has hope thou.
We all have hope, but the results show a different outcome
Haines was plucked from the Brewers where he caused massive problems with their offense so what does BC do?
Hires him for us and his failure continue.
But birdbrain Shelton will defend him and unfortunately we will be stuck with him until Nutting, under pressure from BC, he’ll be canned
Question is, will it be too late by then?
Looks like a Delay in his season.
Theman I agree . Time to send down those who are not hitting and bring up those that are , such as Gonzales who has been batting around .400 all year.Also maybe Bae can spark this offense.
Priester again awful, should not be in rotation.
More ABs foe Bart sign me up.
Bart has hit well, maybe they should make him primary until Davis shows more progress when he spells Bart on his days off.
As a Giants fan who hated to see them DFA him (especially after a really good spring), I was looking at Bart’s stats with PIT. Only three games, but an OPS of over 1.600, 2 HRs and 5 RBI in 13 plate appearances. With Davis struggling, shouldn’t they be giving him more of an opportunity? He DOES have some talent.
The best thing I saw tonight was Russell Wilson taking BP He has a better, more powerful swing than most of the starting lineup
Might as well give him a shot. Can’t hit any worse
I don’t think there is any question that BC and his staff have a much better feel for drafting/signing pitchers than position players. The talent has to be there before the development process can produce good hitters. BC’s drafts and trades have not secured good hitting prospects. I looked today at the Tribune’s summary of yesterday’s minor league games and was totally dismayed when reading the batting averages of nearly every position player mentioned.. Nearly all are batting on the low .200s. Also show a complete lack of power. The current minor league system will not produce much offense for the Pirates in the 2-4 years. Ouch!
Andy Haines needs to be let go. I’m not a hitting coach, but the approach he’s teaching guys isn’t working. It feels like they want the opposing pitcher to walk in all their runs. There has been zero aggression at the plate. It’s frustrating too because the starting pitching has given them plenty of chances to win. Only two of their losses this year was by more than runs.
The players are taught to take as many pitches as possible each plate appearance in order to get into the opposing team’s bullpen early
That strategy isn’t working as most of the bullpens the Bucs are facing are as good as the starters
But you’re right, mlb1225, Haines needs to go
I’ve told Dream that Shelton is a middle of the pack manager to me. Nothing special about him. As vanilla as every other manager. Fails to play percentages at bat and in mound far too often, assembles mind numbing line ups, rarely puts pressure on defenses
But to me, if you have a roster comprised mostly of young guys who won’t run through a wall to win, who jog on routine ground balls and appear to be just fine with losing, that’s indefensible.
Not sure where Shelton is.I Hope Dream reads this and responds.I have come to the conclusion that BC dictates lineups,and perhaps even pitching matchups.That is my sense but I need someone more knowledgeable than me to opine on it.
My man TheMan is correct on getting rid of Haines and his philosophy.If it ain’t broke,don’t fix it.If it is broke,get someone else.The leadoff man should be patient,all hitters should If the pitcher walks a lot.But if not,these are ML pitchers,and you end up striking out looking.I learned even in Little League not to do that.
Many of us have said to get rid of Haines three years ago.This does seem to be BC’s philosophy,and he who does not learn from his mistakes should be the one who is forced to change.
An invested and knowledgeable owner would force it.BC has to learn on his own.He will gone soon if he does not adapt.
I pondered the same thing last year regarding Shelton getting orders from brass about the lineup card. I do believe he played a huge role in trying to assess just which middle infielder and right fielder would stay here. Funny thing is, no one separated himself
Paul Zeise’s column in the PG yesterday stated that it’s clear to him that the “five year plan”. Cherington came in with was a facade. In his view, there never was a plan. He pointed to the poor player development here but also said it was time both Skenes and Nick Gonzales join the big team. In the case of the latter, it’s his view that Nick should play 30 straight games
Although 2nd is still up for grabs and I’d say why not, I’d have to ask if Zeise was in a coma last year
Point is, the only element that will consistently win games here is the starting pitching. Every so often the bats will wake up—even a blind squirrel gets an acorn sometimes—but it’s a team full of average or below players. And there’s no cavalry on the way
Ironically, articles in several current Pirate publications have all agreed that it is time for Cherington to cut ties with Haines, and not just from the major league club offensive decline. @Tiredolderdude and I had this conversation the other day about how badly the top prospects are following the take as many pitches as possible philosophy and are struggling to produce with a high number of strikeouts
TJ is the perfect example
Otherwise, a team that is struggling to score runs, in last night’s game, Jack was walked intentionally to pitch to Taylor. The Brewers knew that Taylor is a free swinger who strikes out frequently. Bases loaded with 2 outs, why didn’t Shelton use Olivares as a PH for Taylor?
Olivares ks often too but it would have been worth the risk
Paul-I have been in Gettysburg and Virginia visiting Civil War battlefields.Turned 71 yesterday.Still good lookin’ though.My friends tell me that I look 69.
Still keeping ahead of you youngsters.
You ask. I deliver. Shelton is a 100 percent full believer in analytics. Pirates have a small army dedicated solely to analytics. Even someone who puts together the perfect lineup for each game. Shelton ultimately decides but he is a company man.
Tired-Always nice to be back with my friends.
It’s good to know you’re doing well and offering your insight here
by the way I am 68, not that much younger than you
I have grown tired of hearing from the broadcasters that every team goes through a slump when this team makes a habit of it.
Players are taught to protect the plate and both Cruz and Joe failed to swing at pitches close to the zone and it’s disheartening to repeatedly watch this happen
By the way who was it that claimed Ryan was the real deal should have his baseball head examined and Bart hasn’t exactly shown why he should be in the lineup today either
Hopefully they can find a way to come back and win but I won’t be betting on it
Their broadcasting teams have a long history of being PR guys
Lanny was almost impossible to listen to
Prince talked about a thousand things during games not even related to baseball and somehow he’s fondly remembered. Someone once told me it was because these guys are employed by the Pirates. That would explain it
I was actually surprised when Brown and Wehner went after the plate ump in the 1st inning yesterday for his Angel Hernandez-like strike zone
4 innings later, I realized why, as they continually explained that Keller pitched well and didn’t deserve being tagged for 4 runs
Sheesh. And I used to teach pitchers they had to be mentally tough in such situations—that umps and errors would make things dicey—but truly good pitchers bear down and overcome it
Guess I’m a dinosaur and what I actually see happening *after* such instances aren’t real
Thanks fellas. Sell those tix
I was reminiscing about the endless conversations that you and I had last year about these very same issues with this team, @tiredolderdude
Come to think about it further, we exchanged similar concerns for several years here
It’s like deja vu all over again
Every morning I come on this site looking or should I say, hoping to read a headline that says Andy Haines, Pirates hitting coach has been fired and every morning I am disappointed
I just now read an interesting article on the Bucs Dugout website
Apparently the entire organization including all of the minor league teams are using the same approach for their hitters as the parent club
Taking the first and sometimes second pitch before swinging
This is resulting in below average offense and a lot of strikeouts
This is what Cherington believes in and preaches to the minor league managers
Dream said Termarr has adopted this idea. Maybe it explains his 16 K’s in 14 games and .205 average. And he’s at A level.
Maybe they can lure Kevin Seitzer or Kevin Long to come over from their teams and perform some miracles
so much for Cutch being too old
I know it’s only the 4th inning and anything can happen but our hitting woes continue ( minus Cutch) and against a 25 year old journeyman pitcher.
Last week, Dream mentioned that Cutch’s age might have finally caught up with him
I would have to say that might be true about Rowdy but certainly not Cutch
Actually think Cutch is like a player-coach, too
But these last two games had no secret formula. Like their wins this year and 20-8 start last year, it’s pitching
Rare that a pitching staff can consistently keep you in games over a 162 game schedule but in Perez, Falter and Jones, they have three nice surprises
And in relief, Holderman looked pretty damn good and Bednar seems to have righted the ship
They did manage to beat a very good team with better hitters than we have, hands down
Using Holderman in the 8th inning, makes me wonder if Chapman is injured or that Shelton doesn’t have enough confidence considering his bases loaded walk-a-thon the night before
Still. and while a win is a win, where is the offense hiding?
Has Cutch age caught up with him? Absolutely. He switched to a shorter lighter bat. If you know anything at all about hitting you know why he did this. I rest my case my case is ironclad. Can he still be a useful player? Absolutely. He has elite k zone knowledge and not only willing but looking to draw walks. Still has enough power to be respected.
Analytics wise there is concern. These numbers were worse until recently. Career 19% k rate. Last 2 years 21. This year 34. Career 89.9 exit velocity. Last year 89.6. This year 87.7
Too early to call. Cutch starts off slow more times than not. Missed too much spring training. Eye test I still see flashes of last years Cutch. Will have to watch the matchups but he can still have a solid year. Has to cut down on the k’s though.
The team’s hottest hitter isn’t in tonight’s lineup.
Cutch who is 5 for his last 8 plate appearances with 2 homers is sitting on the bench
I swear either DS or BC devises these lineups with the intent to lose rather than win
If any player should be sitting it’s Jack or Rowdy. Both are mired in slumps
Just when I think they have it together, I read the lineup and remember Josh Van Meter and how he was inserted into the lineup often enough then showing pathetic performances regardless of them
Typical of Shelton. Have to give the guy some rest. Sheesh
And they’re facing Bryse “Dead Red” Wilson tonight, who is already 2-0. Maybe he’s another guy who learned how to pitch after leaving town
Wilson is averaging at least one strikeout an inning and has met that average against a team that still swings at pitches nowhere near the plate.
There’s an interesting article on RumBunter today that several pitchers at Indy who have started their season very well.
Plus Gonzalez and Bae are hitting the plate better than last year
If this game gets out of hand soon I will be watching something on HBO instead tonight
I can only handle so much disappointment
Four hits through 8, but hey, only six K’s. Maybe Cutch’ll grab a bat in the 9th.
Made the right move in batting him, at least. Best option. Oh well
4 measley hits, and against what was basically a bullpen performance
Cutch historically isn’t a good pinch hitter, he should have started instead of playing Joe, who historically is a good pinch hitter
I think it’s past time to either fire the entire hitting coach staff or start demoting players in favor of those hitting well ar Indy.
it’s past time for Rowdy to be benched in favor of Joe at first base, Triolo sent down to Indy, promote Gonzalez, Hayes moved down in the lineup and when Grandal is finished with his rehab, exchanged for Davis
Tellez has one XBH in 26 games, Hayes only has 8 RBI, Davis can’t throw nor can he hit and Triolo has suffered from the sophomore jinx
How can every hitter always be in a slump at the same time and all of the time?
If I was an opposing manager or pitching coach, I wouldn’t have done anything differently in how they pitched Cutch last eve
Sweeping curve for a strike. Fastball for another. Fastball out of the zone to set him up then another curve. Always was a good hitter, but always freezes with that kind of assortment
Agree with all of your thoughts here
I thought Triolo was an up and coming everyday player. He’s had the opportunity and he’s not there yet
Tellez is the guy we saw last year. He’s a PH at best. How do you sit Joe?
Hayes is spotty and needs to move down for sure and I have said all along that either Davis was a bad pick or how they used him last year messed with his head. Like Dream said earlier, a program like the Dodgers would likely get the most out of him as a catcher and hitter. With Grandal almost ready and Endy coming back next year, I hate to say that maybe he would benefit by being moved
Pitching continues to keep them in most games. Hope that continues because it’s still a mystery how this team will score runs over 125 or so more games on a consistent basis
How does this manager do anything that makes sense?
I keep hearing from the broadcasters that Rowdy and Jack are almost there? Where exactly is there located?
Both continue to be mired in deep slumps with no end in sight.
If I am not mistaken, only 4 XBH this series t is absolutely stunning and equally as pathetic.
And we are getting the post All Star 2023 version of Mitch Keller for the second consecutive start. 101 pitches in 5 innings is absurd
The true believer Pirates fans take offense when you mention such things about Keller. Look, he’s a good starter but he’s not the second coming of Cole, Drabek or Blass. At this point, this is who he is. The ace of the staff as of right now but in a perfect world in ‘25 or ‘26, the number 3 behind Skenes and Jones
That said, I see why Chapman signed here. No one else wanted him. Extreme overpay. Wasn’t needed at signing time and not needed now. Taking a bullpen spot from a young guy with more stuff. The 100-102 on the gun, the stare downs….nice. But you can trade him tomorrow and I’ll help him pack
As for Jack and Rowdy, yeah, I’ve seen enough, too
Jack looks really promising. If Haines has got through to 1 player it might be Jack. He has regressed in hopes of progress. He is so close I am interested in seeing how it plays out. And if it doesn’t can they go back to what he was.
Rowdy I dunno. Everyone was hating on him when he was still a useful player. Past week or 2 he has been awful. Worst part is his effort. 1 year deal with Pirates should have been a wake up call. He lost weight so that was a good sign. I think he is down so far now that up is the most likely direction. Hope he puts in the work and can be average. If not there are other options.
with 2 right handed hitters on the bench and Cruz at second and no outs, why didn’t the worst manager in baseball use either Hayes or Oliveras to pinch hit for the 2 for his last 17 plate appearances, MAT? Or why didn’t he have Taylor bunt Cruz to third then use one of them to PH for Williams?
Mr Analytical Micro Manager never uses common sense
Yeah. Likely was playing a gut instinct. Or trying to show his players what a confident bud he is
And bunting a runner up? In a close game? I remember someone here responding “that’s like giving an out away” when you suggested similar a while back. Almost blew coffee through my nose
Yeah, this guy doesn’t play to win. Doesn’t believe in putting pressure on defenses
Williams is hottest best hitter on team currently. Why pinch hit him? Did you not see Hayes miss games with back? It’s either bothering him or they wanted to rest him. Olivares or bunting I am fine with. I’m not going back to watch but maybe they intended to bunt and defense made swinging the play? Maybe Taylor matched up good against that pitcher. Maybe it was just a bad decision. Honestly with half the team in multiple weeks or even season long slump I am not going to put any detail research on 1 ab.
Williams has a 7 game hitting streak but he doesn’t get a hit every plate appearance either. That said, Taylor isn’t the “ hottest “ hitter on the team so why not use him to sacrifice Cruz to 3rd sp the team’s “ hottest hitter “ can drive him in?
That was my point. And with 2 right handed hitters on the bench with a lefty on the mound, Mr Gut feeling analytics can never seem to do anything right for a win
Hayes was available and not hurting, yesterday was his “ scheduled day off “
It’s not a off day if you have to pinch hit. I would have bunted. Pinch hitting with a average hitter isn’t increasing the odds enough to worry about.
If the rest of the team were productive and scoring runs, a pinch hitter wouldn’t be necessary, but as usual with this team, Rowdy, Taylor and to an extent, despite hitting a double, Jack weren’t productive
They left 9 runners in scoring position yesterday, including when Williams came to the plate
Shelton should have had Taylor bunt Cruz to 3rd and either Hayes or Oliveras pinch hit for Williams
They needed at the time, one run to tie the game. Maybe with the score tied, things would have turned out differently
Nah. Pretty much every manager is going to stick with the guy doing well who played the entire game vs pinch hitting him with a cold average player on a rest day. The numbers agree. You can hate Shelton and think you are right but you aren’t.
you’re not always right either Dream despite the arrogance you portray yourself to be M
Taylor was mired in a slump, 2 for his last 17 , Oliveras was available to pinch hit for him and if you’re trying to win the game, you use whatever means to accomplish that
Even using the player you gave the day off to
If every manager sticks with the hot player why did Cutch sit after giving 5 for 8 with 2 homers in the lead off spot?
I get what Dream is talking about but I’d counter with, how does a guy who’s 5 for his last 8 with 2 homers ride the line when your offense is so anemic.? But hey, right, the guy needs a day off from working in the coal mine.
Don’t go moving the goal post. You said pinch hit Williams who has a 323 ba for the season not for his super small sample size last 8 bats. No manager is taking Williams out of the game there unless they have a mvp on the bench. It was a ridiculous suggestion and if pointing that out to you comes off as arrogance so be it.
I don’t know how cutch is feeling. I would play hot players every game. Baseball must be much harder at mlb level because I always found it non tiring and easy on the body.
I disagree with you here, Dream
Williams has an average based on a handful of at bats. He’s the quintessential punch-and-Judy hitter.
A lot more abs than Cutch 2 game same size that got you guys worked up. If you want to think bad back ground ball machine Hayes would have magically won the game that’s fine. Odds say differently though.
First off, I salute anyone who is still posting or reading posts on this article. We’re now 100 articles since the last Pirates-related MLBTR blurb. You had to do some heavy scrolling to get here. Disappointed that apparently there is nothing MLBTR finds worth writing about with the Pirates
Dream is so out of touch with reality in his latest stream of consciousness that it makes me wonder if he’s finally thrown in the towel with this team
First off, unless the Brewers were going to play a bunt defense that looked like something you’d see in coach-pitch for 6 year olds, it was a proper idea. But proper ideas come to Shelton’s office to die. Again, the idea is to put pressure on the defense. How novel
Next, why are we adopting a defense of Shelton where pinch hitting is concerned? Look, you have two guys with much more experience in pressure situations than the light-hitting Williams. Seriously?
Last, I saw too much of Tellez last season to think any great sea change was coming here
Incredible waste of money. As was Chapman. As was Michael Taylor.
Made zero sense in signing these guys then. Makes zero sense now. Why spend when you have kids who can do just as poorly?
And truthfully, Chapman’s presence has only acted to destroy was one of the NL’s best relief staffs
This is a .500 team at best and in a division where the level of play from young teams is improving. With no cavalry coming over the hill in terms of position players, no amount of Jones or Skenes is going to change that
The closer should only get used in save situations. What if Bednar would have not been scored on and somehow the Bucs scored in the top of the 10th. Who pitches in the bottom of the 10th?
Why won’t Shelton let relievers like Stratton pitch multiple innings?
Why can’t this team score runs?
Why does this team strike out so much?
Why hasn’t Haines been fired yet?
He’s done this a lot over the past couple seasons and if the Pirates are at home, I can almost understand the idea that Shelton is hoping his team pulls it out in their at bat. Especially in extra innings
On the road and in a tie game, I agree. It can only end poorly when your team can’t hit. 11 more strikeouts yesterday and a waste of Priester’s start
I don’t care who pitches. I wouldn’t even have a closer or setup man. I would pitch whoever whenever based on matchups. Bednar is supposed to be your best. Might not be a save opportunity for 2 3 days or week who knows. Pitch whoever in the 10th just as long as it’s not Contreras Ortiz.
Most relievers do best 1 inning at a time. They are simply better and can pitch again the next day. Most have roles 1 inning or multiple.
Can’t score runs because their best bats are only average or slightly above. Runs come from hrs and their only 2 30 hr potential guys are awful this season.
Roster full of strike out guys who hitting coach can’t improve. Then you sign Taylor an insane k guy. Then Cutch is k at insane rate.
Pirates probably believe in if you want to hire the best talent you have to give them enough time before you fire them. Who are you going to find during the season? I dunno. I would have fired him in 2023. Actually I would have never hired him. If I took over right now I would fire him and force Shelton to be hitting coach. Or have a open audition of former players looking to get into coaching.
You made a salient point last year about scouts and development guys, saying they’re a lot like top tier players. Not a lot to go around and not every team is blessed with a staff that can turn players around, however quickly
It’s not that I’m a Haines supporter. Or Shelton. Or Marin. It’s just that a great deal of mechanics should have been sound before arrival. Plate discipline, approach, situational knowledge—things you learn early on
We can debate the efficiency of the scouting department until the cows come home. The great failure here continues to be within the system first and foremost. Again, you can’t get blood from a stone
Good hitters work on their craft year round. And they have their own instructors. How many of the current Pirates could you say LOOK like they’ve made strides in their hitting since day 1 at the MLB level? In fact, name one
I understand your point about pitchers late in close games. I differ from TheMan3 in that I don’t see Bednar as elite anymore. Hitters adjust. The book on each pitcher becomes well known
(I will say that given Chapman’s propensity to walk batters, well, no way I’m throwing him anymore). But where an elite reliever is concerned I’d stand by my original thinking above
125 articles that you have to scroll through before finding the Pirates. Sheesh. My thumb is sore
Oddly, both Contrares and Ortiz have pitched multiple innings in several games this year and Ryan was sent down to Indy while a pitcher by the name of Nichols was promoted today
In fact, there are other pitchers and players that could be promoted at this time to help fill in innings and at the plate
Gonzalez and Bae are ready but Shelton would rather stick with single or strikeout champs Taylor and Rowdy
What is tonight’s prediction for runs and strikeouts?
Would have went 1 run 13 k’s. But no Cruz and Davis I will be positive and go with 2 and 10.
You were close on the strikeouts, Dream, they had 11. Plus Bednar came close to blowing yet another lead
On the positive side, Hayes finally hit his first homer and Tellez shockingly drove in a run though his pitiful one XBH in 27 games continues to be an issue
I have to salute Dream. He called the Perez signing an A+ (well, he calls all their signings A+ but no matter) and the guy is a crafty pitcher
I have to wonder if Joe can keep this up all season. Given this pace, Tellez should be their version of Vogelbach.
They have two hitters beyond him in this lineup in Reynolds and Hayes, at least at present. Maybe Cruz will come around. But I’ve given up on Suwinski and Davis. So many guys here who opposing pitchers must have no fear in challenging
And like I said yesterday, it’s kind of obvious that hitters have the book on Bednar now. He’s gone from being an automatic 3 up, 3 down to a guy whom you shake with when protecting a lead. Sheesh.
Davis needs a trip to Indy to get his swing back in order, Jack has been a major disappointment, and hasn’t progressed yet despite having 2 previous seasons under his belt
When I see Rowdy bat, I quickly think he’s either going to strike out or hit a weak grounder somewhere in the infield
It still amazes me that out of the nine hitters in the daily lineups it’s almost predictable to what each will do when they stand in the batters box
They have Jones going today which to me at least, gives them a decent shot unless Shelton pulls him after 5
Their starters have literally been amazing to this point and they’re at .500 largely because of them
As stated above, I don’t think Suwinski or Davis will ever be more than what they’ve shown, at least not in Pittsburgh. Honestly, Bart has shown more reason to be here this far and if he continues throughout the season, just where does Davis fit with Endy coming back
And in this regard, Jack benefits. There is no one other than Reynolds who’s shown a reason to be in the lineup daily
And down on the farm, Lonnie White has come down to earth with a .222 average, as has Palacios. You wonder how a farm system can be this threadbare
But Bae, Gonzales and Peguero continue to hit well while biding their time
Davis should be going to Indy. Jack could get things going. They cut his k’s. Now need to get his power going and see if he can do both.
Call as I see them. Chapman for instance got a C. Nothing impressive there. Still isn’t. He is what he is.
I agree, their starting pitching has been exceptional and other than just a few hitters, their offense has been lackluster
You ask how a farm system can be this threadbare? Have you been watching the player development over the past decade?
Bae, Gonzalez and Peguero should have already been promoted. Surely players like Taylor, Truilo and Williams could use a trip to Indy. None have shown any consistency and Truilo has regressed this year
In fact I opposed the signing of Taylor to begin with
By the way Rowdy was a waste to sign
Jones doesn’t seem to have it today and as usual, the offense isn’t working either
I just can’t spend my time watching these overrated players bat
Taylor, Davis and Hayes struck out in succession which can be expected and it’s just not worth my time watching them anymore
They make every opposing pitcher seem like the reincarnation of Cy Young
In giving Jones a compliment, I guess I gave him the hex, too. Although you’d never know it from the Pirates broadcast team, Jones looked a lot like Keller today
Fastballs down Main Street. Off speed and movement pitches hanging dead red. And the fastball was down a couple ticks
But like Bednar, major league teams get the book on a pitcher and make adjustments. Well, most teams. The Pirates tend to look sick against anyone
Tellez and Triolo manufactured a run today
The blind squirrel analogy applies
But Davis? Taylor? Cruz? Oy.
Taylor was 4 for his last 21 plate appearances before today, his slump continues after today’s game
The team record when Cutch bats lead off is 5-1, so who batted lead off today? Not Cutch.
I get it that Shelton wants to get Oliveras in the game, just don’t do it at the expense of a potential win. Taylor should have been benched and finally, Cruz is not a #3 hitter, he hits better at the #6 hole
Shelton is always tinkering with the lineup and mostly for ridiculous reasons
Tellez. Taylor. Chapman. Perhaps Grandal. All useless signings.
And Shelton is throwing everything at the wall where Cruz is concerned. I compared him to Polanco hype-wise recently but I think I had more faith in him being a star than I do Cruz
150 articles since the last Pirates article here. Guess we’re the last two who care
The Bucs don’t make enough headlines for this site to write articles about. Everyone already knows how mediocre they are, writing articles about that isn’t worth either their time to write or for baseball fans to read
I don’t see them sweeping the lowly A’s this series and if memory serves me correctly, the A’s swept them last year and at home no less
Shelton’s tinkering of the lineup for every game is just part of the problem, the other is the batter’s swing selection and taking pitches to get to the bullpen early
They aren’t the 2002 Athletics and shouldn’t have that same Moneyball approach
Ben needs to make a A+ dumpster dive.