MLB commissioner Rob Manfred spoke to members of the media about the future implementation of an automatic ball-strike (ABS) system, also known as “robo umps”, in the majors. Mark Feinsand of MLB.com and Evan Drellich of The Athletic relayed some of his comments. The commissioner said that there will likely be a challenge system in place when ABS first arrives in the big leagues, but that isn’t likely to happen next year.
Robo umps have seemed inevitable for some time now. Many other sports have seen technological advancements gradually take over duties previously carried out by human officials and the improvement of ball tracking technology has allowed baseball fans to clearly see calls missed by umpires in real time. As various websites track and grade umpires, fans have become increasingly vocal about their disappointment in umpires and the desire to move towards robo umps.
MLB has been trying out various methods in the minor leagues and in independent partner leagues for years now and Manfred said there is a “growing consensus” that players would prefer a challenge system as opposed to letting the ABS system take over completely. “Those who have played with it do have a strong preference for the challenge system over ABS calling every pitch,” Manfred said, “and that has certainly altered our thinking on where we might be headed.”
In a challenge system, the game is still called the traditional way, with the human umpire calling balls and strikes. However, each team gets a set number of challenges each game, where they can appeal to the ABS system to see if the umpire made a mistake.
This is something that Jayson Stark of The Athletic took a detailed look at in August of last year. While some fans may simply want every call to be rigorously made as the machine sees it, Stark got various reasons from baseball people as to why it would be preferable to do it with challenges.
One reason is feel for the game, with the example that a human umpire might expand the strike zone during a blowout to move the game along, something the robo ump wouldn’t do. There’s the entertainment factor of seeing the challenge play out on the scoreboard at the ballpark or on the broadcast. As an example, a minor league game last month ended on a challenged call, with video relayed by Foul Territory on X. Some want pitchers with consistent control to get a more favorable zone from the ump, as compared to a more wild pitcher. Some also don’t want the skill of catcher framing to go away.
The last point is something that Manfred touched on yesterday. “I think the players feel that a catcher that frames is part of the art of the game,” Manfred said. “If in fact framing is no longer important, the kind of players that would occupy that position might be different than they are today. You could hypothesize a world where instead of a premium catcher who’s focused on defense, the catching position becomes a more offensive player. That alters people’s careers, so those are real, legitimate concerns that we need to think all the way through before we jump off that bridge.”
Though the challenge system may be coming to the big leagues at some point, it doesn’t seem like it will be next year. “We still have some technical issues; I don’t mean technology, I mean technical issues in terms of the operation of the system,” Manfred said. “We haven’t made as much progress in the minor leagues this year as we hoped at this point. I think it’s becoming more and more likely that this will not be a go for ’25. One thing we did learn with the changes that we went through last year is taking the extra time to make sure you have it right is definitely the best approach. I think we’re going to use that same approach here.”
Per Feinsand, those issues are related to whether the strike zone is determined by a player’s height or by camera systems. “I’m not sure that anybody is wholly satisfied with either approach,” Manfred said. “We have not started those conversations [with the MLBPA] because we haven’t settled on what we think about it. It’s hard to have those conversations before you know what you’re thinking.”
Drellich also relayed some of Manfred’s thoughts on other topics in a separate piece. In that one, Manfred discusses the uniform situation with Nike, improvements to the Sacramento ballpark that will host the A’s for the next three years, the rise of pitcher injuries, the 2028 Olympics, Diamond Sports Group, pretacked balls and more. MLBTR covered some of these topics last night.
Disband the umpires union!
That can only happen if the umpires themselves agree to disband their own union, and we know that will never happen. Anything else would be illegal. And if, at the end of their CBA, MLB decided to hire non-union umpires, there would be years of lawsuits, DOL investigations, and other such nonsense that would interfere with the game we love.
A skill that is far more important than pitch ‘framing’ – is a hitter’s ability to RECOGNIZE a ball from a strike!!
And an umpire blowing one ball/strike call, after another- does not reward a hitter that is good at that skill. A player gets his livelihood hurt by bad umpiring – a bad umpire usually isn’t affected.
Manfred is a true clown. He never says precisely what the ‘kinks’ are, that still need to be addressed. There is no reason that ABS couldn’t be implemented by 2025.
And the ‘human element’ is a lot of bs. Fans want a true outcome – not something determined by inconsistency from a human being trying to perform an impossible job.
I have seen Cutch called out numerous times on obvious balls. Some veteran players know the strike zone better than the umpire. Time to replace these guys with technology if it is reliable.
Dog one: Like weather and field conditions, umpiring by actual people who, like all humans, have their flaws, missing a ball or a strike has been part of the game for 200 years. I’d rather have a guy miss a call now and then than turn it over to robots. I can see it now: An abs breaks down. A guy in a blue jumpsuit and an oily rag hanging from his back pocket runs out to fix the damn thing. What will that do to manfred’s idiotic idea of shorter games?
An oily rag? Are we to have analog instead of digital ABS systems?
Avenger: it’s NOT like the umpires miss ‘a ball or strike’, every so often! Ball and strike calls are often missed, multiple times in the same at bat to a hitter.
IMO b/s calls are missed ‘on average’, at least 3 times per half inning. I know you know enough baseball, to understand how that can affect what happens to the approach that a pitcher or hitter has to take during that AB.
I swear baseball commissioner’s are suffering from low testosterone. They don’t have the balls to make right calls.
-Forgiving the Astros
-Forgiving the Redsox
-Taking 20 years to introduce universal DH
-20 years to have every team play each other
– ABS hesitance.
Shadow: Yeah, and don’t forget Manfred dragging his feet on robo players. That would cut down on arm, knee, big toe injuries. All they would have to do is build ramps so the robot players will be able to get in and out of the dugout. Time to get the Federal League going again so we can watch baseball the way it was meant to be played
Avenger this is what I propose:
-Full ABS
-125 game season
-Even more interleague play
World baseball class should be played AFTER the World Series.
This would cut down on injuries and promote more teams playing each other like the NBA.
Shadow, it’s not about testosterone. Commishes are just actors, assigned to do the bidding of the mega-entities that own and control sports leagues.
Your first two points: The controllers want to encourage rule-breaking and criminal activity.
Your last three points: They all suck and helped / will help to ruin baseball.
The game we love is more and more distant everytime Manfred opens his pie hole.
From Little League to MLB, the strike zone is defined as from the armpits to the knees. For over 100 years. It’s not where the effing cameras are…Good Lord, Manfred.
Aside from a blowout game why would anybody want a subjective strike zone? It’s either a strike or it’s not
Are YOU a robot, Shadow?!
The MLB strike zone is “the midpoint between the top of the shoulders and the top of the uniform pants” and “the bottom of the knees.”
If umps could adopt one consistent strike zone and get the vast majority of calls right I’d be against the system but umps adopt their own strike zone. They can give Most of them don’t know where a ball even crosses the plate that’s why pitch framing is tracked because when it’s close umpires just look where the catchers glove ends up. The umpire epidemic goes far beyond the strike zone too it’s also behavioral. Umps like Angel Hernandez try to start issues with players then toss them when they respond. I think he actually makes bad calls to start confrontation. In his mind he’s the star of the show. Players have been arguing with umps since baseballs inception but umps are inciting these confrontations like never before and holding grudges. If Angel Hernandez is protected there’s a serious problem
Good, let’s keep getting thousands of ball/strike calls wrong. As long as they keep employing terrible umps too this is perfect
Anything will be better then seeing Angel Hernandez throw a person out of the game, because he is a defective umpire that does not know how to ump a game.
Angel Hernandez will have to retire when this happens.
Robo-Angel Hernandez . . .
Ump score cards has done some interesting work on the value of the missed calls and it really seems to impact things. The difference between the team with the most umpire luck (CLE) vs the worst umpire luck (OAK) has been about 27 runs. It would be nice to get ABS to help cut back on a lot of this randomness that can help/hurt teams so much.
Is it random? Why won’t they let it go?
That’s one way to keep control of the game.
Who cares how catchers are effected. Really? good framers will still be needed even with a challenge system. You cant challenge everything .
Why would anyone want catchers deceiving umpires?
Dah, deception is part of the game and has been since almost the beginning. When the curve ball was invented, there were those who spoke out against it because it was deceptive.
So was pitchers trying to hit, and there was even more whining about doing away with that for years. Yet no one misses it at all. It’s never even mentioned and it’s only been gone a couple of year.
That’s a different kind of deceptive, Skeptical.
CardsFan: I’ve always felt that catchers who pull caught pitches into the strike zone should be ejected and fined.
If it’s like the challenge system they are using in AAA games on Friday through Sunday this season, teams can continue to challenge as long as you get it right. Each team has 3 challenges to start with and lose a challenge each time they are wrong. A recent game I was attended there were 17 challenges combined by the 2 teams, 13 of the HP umpire calls were overturned. Both teams had one challenge still available at the end of the game.
I would be ok with something like that in the majors. I would also be ok with how they do it the rest of the week in AAA where the ABS makes the calls and the HP ump just repeats what the machine tells him.
With these 17 challenges, how long did the game last?
2:39 in that game. You could look up what the average is in AAA.
Interesting!
If that many pitches were challenged, that makes a nice case to just go to ABS full time. I mean, why not?? Get it right!
I would like to see pitch framing gone from the game. I think of it as cheating. The pitch should be called a ball or strike on where the ball crosses the plate, not how the catcher catches the pitch. Look at older videos, umpires are calling pitches almost as soon as the pitch is caught. Now, pitches are caught on the corner, if the catcher just sticks the glove right there, should be a strike. However the catcher yanks his glove to the middle of the plate and umpires are less to call it a strike.
ABS will do that. Human umpires obviously cannot do that. If they could pitch framing would not be such a valued skill for catchers.
Some day we’ll have robo players who can hit 300 home runs a season or strike out 1,000 batters a year
If umps could do their dam job
This wouldnt be necessary
Complaining about umpires has been part of the game since it was invented. Try thinking of a new grievance.
Or, as we are, try thinking of a new solution.
The point and your response aren’t in the same zip code!
It has def gotten worse over the years
Really? And you know this how, exactly?
It was pretty bad in the 90s as I recall.
At Blue Skies:
Because we WATCH baseball. Obviously you don’t pay much attention to it.
Haha.
Idiotic idea. Just train them better. They are part of the game for good or bad. Manfred is human garbage
Agreed
So what “skill” is actually involved with pitch framing?
Moving your glove really quick. I mean, quick.
All the catchers do that now, and since the actual strike zone is several feet in front of the catcher’s glove it makes no sense to say this glove flick influences the umpire’s call. There are so many good and actually plausible reasons why umpires miss calls. I have never understood the interest in one that basically defies logic.
Many catchers routinely get the calls. There could be some relationship element but if the ball is close the umpire is subconsciously effected by where the glove is. They are used to the glove being in a certain spot in relation to the plate when the balls on the corner for a strike. A catcher like Kurt Suzuki routinely gave up on pitches that missed location and even if they were easy strikes the umpire would often not call them because Suzuki fling his glove towards the ball and immediately towards his hand to throw in disappointment instead of presenting the pitch. Moving the glove too much is distracting with the umpire looking at the pitch as well. It’s often less about stealing a strike than it is holding the glove as still as possible on a breaking ball so the momentum doesn’t take your glove further off the plate. There is also a matter of where you setup. If you setup far inside on a righty and the ball takes your mitt to the right a bit it’s gonna look like a strike cause your glove is moving towards the plate and the umpire will hardly notice a little exaggeration in that case either.
So your theory is umpires can reach the major leagues without knowing how to not be distracted by a catcher’s glove three feet behind the actual strike zone? That’s a hell of a concept. I mean no wonder some of us are skeptical.
This is also the reason for the catcher’s interference epidemic. They keep moving the catchers up trying to deceive the umpires. Automation would remove that motivation.
My theory is actually that human beings are fallible and easily influenced. Above you seem to say people should stop complaining about umpires yet here you seem to be complaining about them. What you said about umpires isn’t much different then saying “a major league hitter went through all those years of training and are fooled by a pitcher.”
I suspect the reason for more catcher’s interference calls has at least as much to do with throwing out runners.
I’m saying that people should understand that fans have complained about umpires since the beginning of time, long before they had little boxes to look at on TV or slo-mo instant replay, so this is far from an original complaint. I’m not complaining about them at all. I am also not saying that they can’t be deceived. What I am saying is they are probably deceived more by the same pitching factors that deceive hitters than anything the catcher can do by himself.
What I said probably couldn’t be more different. In fact a low-A ball umpire would have just about as much success in the majors as a low-A ball batter. Neither of them get to that highest level just by hanging around and waiting for their number to be called. Playing the very old hate-the-umpire game doesn’t change the fact that the umpires we see in the majors got there the same way the players did.
I think the last part you said is really agreeing with me. I said saying “the umpire who trained all that time is tricked by the glove?” Is like saying “A big league hitter who trained in the minors can be tricked by a pitcher?” I’m saying it’s because it’s hard and they are human. And I agree the pitches themselves fool the umpire more than the catcher. But I also think catchers do, on accident or on purpose, for better or for worse. Really I think we agree except the framing we are just not hearing each other properly.
The computer says the ball touched the strike zone line. After further review, the computer was right . . . every time.
Once you start using the computer, will the ball have to be over halfway into the zone? If they are that accurate, then I think you will need to do more then just paint the line.
That has already been gone over ad nauseum and they have come up with the ABS strike zone is at the front of the plate.
I have wondered if 99 percent of the pitch is out of the strike zone, but one percent touches the corner, is that considered a strike in the automated strike zone?
Also, it seems to be an universal strike zone for everyone no matter the height of the player. How can Aaron Judge and Jose Altuve use the exact same strike zone?
Trackman is accurate to within 1/10 of 1 inch. It adjusts the strike zone in height automatically when the player comes set in the box. Its much more accurate than any umpire can be,
Catchers have to know all the various pitches of all the pitchers on their team even the new rookies that got called up yesterday. They have to know the tendencies of all the opposing hitters so they can select the appropriate pitch at any given time and get it right often enough that their pitcher wants to work with them. They have to block wild pitches, throw out runners stealing bases and put out runners on close plays at the plate..
They also need to hit well. The same thing that is required of all the other players.
They have more than enough to do without framing. Catcher framing is proof that there is something wrong not something that needs to be preserved.
Assuming this skill actually exists. Since nobody seems to be able to explain what this skill entails, I doubt that it does exist.
No way you really need someone to explain what pitch framing is, right?
I know what it is supposed to be, but nobody can really explain how it’s done. Yours is a pretty typical answer to this challenge.
For me if a ump sees you move your glove it won’t be called a strike, so catching a ball and moving the glove after for a strike doesn’t work. To properly frame, you need to use the natural motion and recoil that happens when a baseball enters your glove. So catching a ball close and moving your arm angle or glove placement slightly during the recoil process is what framing at its best is to me. Also the power of suggestion In Holding it there or moving your glove after recoil is a real thing and generally catchers that the ump likes better will get more of these calls, be it sub consciously or not. This my best explanation for what framing is and how to do it.
Well, credit for having a theory. It’s the very first one I’ve heard. The problem is all catchers do the flick now, so somebody must believe it works. To me, a more plausible theory is umpires are fooled by the very same tricks pitchers use to deceive batters: velocity, location, break, sequencing.
It’s no mystery to me why the curveball that touches the top of the zone is often called a ball. The pitch was above the batter’s head for most of its travel. It’s also no mystery to me why the slider that starts on the inside of the plate and ends up off the outside of the plate often gets called a strike. It was in the zone for most of the trip. It’s also no mystery why pitchers who are around the zone a lot get more edge pitches called in their favor than pitchers with less command.
So many aspects of pitching and ball travel seem to logically have way more influence on how umpires see ball and strikes than anything the catcher does three feet behind the plate. Why this gets no discussion at all and “framing” gets so much is really strange, I think.
Anyway, if we ever do go to full robo-umps. the game will likely be altered way more than anyone imagines. A lot of pitching craft will change because what pitchers do to “get the call” has always been a lot more important than anything catchers do on the other end of the pitch. Change that, and you’ve changed the game.
There’s a limited amount of effort I will spend trying to convince a grown-up that 2+2=4. Not sure what you are trying to prove by saying that since no one has explained it clearly enough, it doesn’t exist, but best to you in your journey.
Murphy NFLD – That was an excellent post.
You may want to learn what it is instead of expecting people to explain it to you. Baseball Prospectus has a great explanation including charts and pictures. Its real. It happens. Teams sign and keep catchers based on their skill at it. So instead of trying to argue that it doesn’t exist, read one of the many the 3000+ word explanations of it on Baseball Prospectus.
They have a whole section on it there, but I liked this one.
baseballprospectus.com/news/article/22934/framing-…
This is an oldy but goody
baseballprospectus.com/news/article/25514/moving-b…
Alternately you can read Ben Lindbergh’s weekly articles on pitch framing complete with interviews with catchers explaining it.
Then there are these articles on it over the years. I have 4 bookmarked.
tangotiger.com/index.php/site/article/wowy-framing…
grantland.com/features/studying-art-pitch-framing-…
espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/11127248/how-catc…
Finally, you can choose to remain blissfully unaware.
IOW, you have no answer to anything I just said. I kind of knew that already.
I’d already read a lot of this stuff, btw. I don’t find it very convincing for the simple reason that nobody seems to have a good working theory for how framing is done, only that it exists.
Actually, I am blissfully aware. I’ve read up on this plenty, and find very little of substance about what makes a catcher a good framer. Even the articles that purport to describe this are really just talking about catchers who make good targets vs. poor ones, and even that much is hardly a science.
Catchers who shift around a lot between their setup and the pitch delivery may be signaling with their body language that the pitch isn’t going to the target. Is that framing or just poor communication with the pitcher? I don’t see where anyone really knows, and not especially when framing stats tend to be unstable. Does a catcher who knows how to frame, forget how to frame?
So you can discuss this if you think it’s interesting and discussable, or simply snark away some more. Your choice.
The movement after set up and before the pitch is received, can also be a deception to the hitter who has been trying to sneak a peak at location thru the initial catcher positioning.
Then that proves that you read none of the articles I posted.
IOW, you chose snark. Too bad.
You chose ignorance. Too bad.
Sigh
It’s ready. It will make the game better. Do it.
Clearly you didn’t read the article. The systems aren’t anywhere near ready because while east-west strikes (across the plate) are clearly fixed by easily measured physical dimensions, the zone is subjective north to south (up and down) based on an assessment of player stances while swinging at pitches. Someone, somewhere will make those judgments–and I emphasize the word “judgments”–and rest assured that doesn’t make everyone happy any more than the current human system does. If you think the systems are “ready” you haven’t followed its halting implementation in the minor leagues. There are significant issues with the whole approach, especially when applying it to the sport’s top league. It’s why, if ABS ever does come to MLB, it will be a limited challenge system. The strike zone never has been the box you see on TV and never will be. Thank goodness.
Every player gets measured for their strike zone. The end.
Trackman can determine it and record it in real time much more accurately than any human can. It’s not even a consideration.
Oh please, computers are doing far more complex tasks extremely well. These are excuses.
You are completely wrong. The technology exists to determine if a ball crosses over the plate and at what height.
Just look at the mountain of statcast data collected on every pitch right now. Determining the rotations per minute of a pitch or the exact amount of sweep or rise is much more difficult than just where it crossed the plate.
Not only could a machine determine ball/strike calls but it could notify the umpire by radio before the catcher even catches the pitch.
Every player’s height/weight is already listed in a current database. The top/bottom of the strike zone could be set by height or by individual player. Yes people will complain. They always do. The fact is any system will be better than human umpires.
Different umpires call the zone differently, each according to their own “judgement”. The same umpire in the same game can call a pitch in the same spot differently. A machine will call it accurately every time, every game.. Aaron Judge might complain that because he is 6 foot 7 it is calling the pitch at his knee wrong but it will call it the same way every time. That is many times better then never having any clue how the human umpire will call it.
Trackman adjusts automatically to the batter when they setup in the batters box. Its more accurate at setting what the vertical strike zone is than any human can be.
Avory, almost everything you said is demonstrably inaccurate. They are using ABS and using it successfully in AAA this season. It has now been used in every level of the minors from the AFL to AAA over the past 4 seasons. They have worked out the kinks and decided on how the strike zone will be measured. The technology is accurate to within 1/10th of an inch.
If the challenge system comes to the majors it will be exactly the same one used in AAA right now on Friday through Sunday. Each team gets 3 challenges to start the game. The catcher, pitcher, or batter can challenge the call. If they are correct and the HP umps call is overturned, the team keeps the challenge. If the HP umps call is upheld, they lose a challenge.
Of course the strike zone is a box. Have you not read the rules of baseball?
Trackman can determine and record where the batter was to start the AB better than any umpire can or than you can with the naked eye so the strike up and down is MORE accurate than any umpire. They have shown that over and over and over in the minors.
The ONLY problem they ever had with it was strikes that only caught the bottom of the strike zone or that only caught the zone at the back of the plate. .In other words, 3D ABS was TOO accurate. They solved that in conversations with the players and the strike zone is now measured only in 2D at the front of the plate. The ball has to at least touch the zone at that point to be called a strike. It is so consistent that the players can adjust immediately.
ABS is not in place now because MLB would have to revisit the CBA or wait until the new CBA. Going back into CBA negotiations before they absolutely have to is not going to happen.
Its not an IF ABS comes to MLB, its WHEN. It absolutely will come and the umpires union has already given their ok when it does.
Sometimes you have to dig deeper than just reading the articles on here because as much as they would like to, these guys are not always correct and Manfred is known to spout complete BS and lawyer speak much of the time.
It will help to ruin the game ever further than it has already been ruined. RIP MLB.
I have a hard time believing Manfred is genuinely concerned about the careers of catchers who can frame well versus those who don’t but hit better.
He just wants to go this route anyway, which I’m fine with. But no need to blow smoke up anyone’s nether regions.
The players union is concerned about it, and Manfred is concerned about labor peace, so by extension he probably is actually concerned about it.
Which is why ABS will wait until negotiations for the next CBA.
Why wouldn’t batters and pitchers both prefer consistent balls and strikes? They all say that’s what they want more than anything else.
Rob, how stupid is yesterday’s interference rule in yesterday’s Sox game? It should be runner is out for interference and the ball is dead. Only one out not two..
Yeah, that may surpass all the other terrible calls as chief among the worst calls this season.
It literally affected nothing in the game in terms of the catch: Henderson made the catch easily, and even if he didn’t, it’s still an out. Moreover, it wasn’t like he stood or traversed where the ball was. Henderson was shifted and Vaughn was going back to second base, where he had every right to go.
Again, arguably the worst call this season among some really terrible ones, like umpires ejecting “someone” from the dugout.
Read the rule book, it was the correct call according to the rule book. Luckily, there was an umpire who actually knew the rules and followed them. It is not a subjective call.. (Go watch CloseCallSports discussion of the play.)
Funny, posters on here complain about the subjectivity involved in calling balls and strikes, then complain when an umpire follows the rule book on interference.
Yes, it is in the rule book, but unequally applied. But, the rule doesn’t address this situation specifically, because there is discernment expected. Whenever there are rules used to affect the outcomes of games, they will be scrutinized, like they should be.
Umpires have been taking games out of the hands of the players too often and it’s only getting worse. To compare this to calling balls/strikes is apples to oranges. One set of calls occurs nearly every pitch of every game while the other happens once a season, at the most.
Also, all rules have intent (or spirit) behind their construction. I have a very difficult time believe it this decision is in the spirit of this rule.
Roboumps wouldn’t be necessary if Manfred just had the balls to fire incompetent boobs like Angel Hernandez.
“Some also don’t want the skill of catcher framing to go away.
The last point is something that Manfred touched on yesterday. “I think the players feel that a catcher that frames is part of the art of the game,” Manfred said. “If in fact framing is no longer important, the kind of players that would occupy that position might be different than they are today. You could hypothesize a world where instead of a premium catcher who’s focused on defense, the catching position becomes a more offensive player.”
Getting rid of pitch framing would be the ABSOLUTE BEST part of robo-umps.
What? You don’t want to lose the entertainment value of a guy very slightly moving his glove to fool a 60 year old union member who doesn’t care if he’s wrong?
“pITcH fRaMiNg Is A sKiLl!!!”
So, is taking a pitch instead of swinging outside the strike zone.
One is a legitimate skill integral to game and the other is pitch framing, which is garbage and boring and stupid. You want to reward the wrong one.
Also…where are all of the people who couldn’t stand pitchers hitting? Pitchers hitting was fun. It was like a random guy off the street trying to hit MLB pitching. But, we’re willing to watch wet noodle outs because they can moving their glove an inch and fool Angel Hernandez?
All those reasons for not doing it are lame. Catching will never be a primarily offensive position bc the catcher does more than frame pitches. Even if it were do we hold back change bc we are set in our ways? There is little exciting about replay reviews. They mention the game ending on a review as “exciting” but who wants to see a walk off taken back because of a review? I want calls right but to suggest reviews are exciting is odd. Also as a kid I loved Marcus Giles. One day he threw water coolers on field over a call. That is a bad example for people. When I played I realized I started doing things I wouldn’t have done because if a big league idol does it why not me? All this when we can get the calls right! Why should a zone expand because of a blowout? Peoples salaries get based off these stats. People gamble on this stuff.
I love the arguments for not having the automated zone. The human ump can call a wider zone in a blowout! If a pitcher has better control they should get beneficial calls! Even though the strike zone is defined as where the ball crosses the plate, we love pitch framing! They love that pitches are called incorrectly to the defined strike zone!
These arguments are so dumb. Give a fullautomated zone, and if people have issues with the zone, change it! You can do that consistently with an automated system
Home plate umpires have been so bad this season on balls and strikes it’s almost as if they want the Robo umpires system in place. And Manfred being concerned about altering peoples careers is laughable, he’s done away with I mean he’s killed the left-handed specialist coming in with him now having to face three batters because we have an eye on the clock because we want to hurry up and go home.
Look I get it I used to be one of ‘those’ guys the “human element” to protect the sanctity of the game guys. A lot changes when you you realize how many mistakes aren’t borderline but actual egregious errors. Angel Hernandez aside this is a legitimate problem. Go Robo Umps! As far as the taking away jobs argument, it’s become abundantly clear that human beings have limitations. And while I have seen umpire report cards on certain individual games reach close to 100% accuracy, those outliers are few and far between. I don’t even blame the umps. Imagine being tasked with accurately discerning borderline calls on 100MPH fastballs and breaking pitches that move more than a foot in today’s game.
Yada yada yada, let the cheating continue.
The guy is just terrible no way he believes the things he’s saying. I’ve always wondered if he truly likes baseball
More like a corporate CEO given his talking points that he just regurgitates.
In other words if framing is taken out of baseball that would mean less catchers will feel the need to sit on one knee. Emphasize blocking, pitch and location decisions and throwing out baserunners.
Sounds great.
Getting off the one knee will help protect catchers private parts better
Go F yourself Manfred and this stupid explanation. As an advocate of tech calling balls and strikes going to back to about the mid 2000s and finally seeing it close to possibly happening. This is what we get.
What will they be replaced with? Robots? Zombies? Killer Robot Zombies? How about catchers who just catch the ball since moving it around would serve no purpose. Big deal. They already try to get catchers who can throw out base runners so you have more of those.
Just a lazy ridiculously stupid obtuse explanation. And I don’t have that many issues with this guy other than the ghost runner stuff. Blaming the commissioner for everything is low hanging fruit. He’s an owner mouthpiece.
If you’re scared of the umpires Union just say that. You don’t get rid of the umpire behind the plate. He still makes the call based on the tech with an earpiece if necessary. He still makes the safe or out call. Half swing call if he has to. You get rid of horrible umpires behind home plate. Even Angel Hernandez would be tolerated umpiring without having balls and strikes as an option.
Angel Hernandez has the highest percentage of calls overturned on replay in MLB. Its not a huge number, but he is still the worst at that particular area of the game for umpires.
As I said above I approve of the automated strike zone but imo balls that barely clip the plate (less than 50% of the ball) really don’t seem like strikes (I was never a pitcher.lol). If they actually called every ball that clipped the zone a strike I think pitchers would have more advantage which is also unexciting to fans. Umpires already call them a lot because they know they are being tracked for accuracy (with little consequence but still they can see they were “wrong”), tho umpires did used to have larger zones. A game ended on a review in minors with a ball barely clipping that definitely looked like a ball.
The main thing I think people don’t get is many strike systems we see on TV or online are calculated before time based on height and stance presumably but those tend to be wrong because a hitter doesn’t always finish at the same height, tho they generally do. They would have to use sensors obviously. I assume they do in minors. Idk.
This will be the end of Nestor Cortes. Without the dumpires expanding the strike for him, he is toast. Can’t happen soon enough.
His future is as a middle reliever. Hopefully Gil can be stretched out without blowing his arm out.
To be honest, I don’t have a problem if an umpire calls a pitch a ball or so off the plate, as long as he’s consistent with it. That’s an in-game adjust a hitter can make.
The reason that some umpires, with widely inconsistent and expansive strike zones, are still calling games is because there’s no repercussions, they should be suspended. But they can’t be because of on word ‘Union’.
So now when they go to the challenge system, you’ll see hitters putting their hands to ears to review it. Just like a lot of infields and base runners do now.
The old consistently wrong makes it right or OK argument, eh? That is just sooooooo tired.
“Likely not ready for 2025” means “we will implement in new CBA”.
Also regarding framing, I was once watching a high school/college showcase camp where a catcher caught a ball at least a foot & half off the plate, pulled his glove in to the middle of the plate and held it there. The umpire told the catcher ‘son, please don’t insult my intelligence’.
Sadly, there are some major league umpires that get fooled that badly.
Except that there isn’t.
Manfred the guy that sold MLB to gambling sites. The Block Sox would be so proud.
Also the guy that looked the other way with the Ohtani Rose thing.
Manfraud to hell!
The challenge system might be ok for a few random calls, but tell me this, does the 6’5 6’6 6’7 hitter get the same ‘robo zone’ as the 5’6 5’7 5’8 hitter, because quite frankly one could have longer femurs. If you’re going to use a rough indicator of around the belt to the knees for the ‘zone’, does the taller man get a larger/bigger zone called on him. This is quite patently discrimination against taller people that play baseball
The problem with the media and people that have never played the game is that they just look at that frame on the screen of their TV/Laptop/phone, and immediately see a dot within it and say ‘that’s a strike’, and a strike is not necessarily where the ball is caught/received by the catcher, it’s where it passes through the plate. Although there are some ‘pro’ umps who have horrible zones, I am not for dehumanizing the game of baseball by ‘getting rid’ of human umpires.
What’s next, robo waiters and waitresses?
The dehumanizing of the game comes from human umpires. The human element should be the players performance, uncompromised by errors by the umpire, not the umpires’ mistakes. The players deserve the close calls the most. The talent for the perfect take, or pitch. That is the human element to showcase, not the pompous umpire that doubles down when they are wrong.
The challenge system is unnecessary. Go right to ABS, it’s better. Let the umpires sit there and relay the ABS calls. Let them have their union. Price of doing business.
If they had ABS in the 1800s, they would have just used it.
Any system that uses the least accurate method or concessions to taking a call in error is skirting the issue. Catcher framing is only an effort to cheat the call, and abuse inaccurate human umpiring. Time to change is at least 10 years in the past, already. Screw the challenge system. If you use ABS to correct the challenge, just use it all the time.
2017 was the first season MLB parks had the Trackman system. Pitch F/X was good, but not as accurate nor as able to automatically adjust strike zones for the individual batters.
This is stupid!! There have been pitch machines around for decades so why not replace pitchers too? I am sure Apple or Google could invent a machine that can swing a bat as well. Lets take humans out of the game completely!! The umps and their bad calls at the most horrible times helps to make the game exciting. Robo umps?? Ugh!!
Rob, Snoopy always played short, and he was great. So let’s implement your suggestions, and also replace human fielders with animals!
If the ABS system means NO MORE ANGEL HERNANDEZ, then I’m all for it!
Technology should solely be in support of humans and not replace them. There should be up to one challenge per inning of a missed ball/strike and reviews should never be longer than 10 seconds considering what we see on the TV as fans. Or coaches continue to get challenges until they lose.