1:14pm: The Pirates are indeed interested in Ward, per Noah Hiles of the Post-Gazette, though he’s one of multiple targets on their radar and a deal isn’t near the finish line at present.
11:24am: The Pirates and Angels are in talks on a trade that would send outfielder Taylor Ward from Anaheim to Pittsburgh, reports Paul Zeise of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and 93.7 FM The Fan. While a deal isn’t yet complete, Zeise adds that Pittsburgh is actively trying to get the deal across the finish line.
Adding to the outfield is a sensible pursuit for a Pirates club that is in the NL Wild Card hunt but has received poor production from its outfield. While Bryan Reynolds is having one of his best seasons (.280/.344/.486, 17 homers, 131 wRC+), the rest of the group has been lacking. Even with that standout production from Reynolds, the outfield has combined for a .225/.297/.357 batting line overall. The resulting 84 wRC+ indicates that Pittsburgh outfielders have been 16% worse than average at the plate. Each of Jack Suwinski (.187/.269/.349), Michael A. Taylor (.202/.259/.274) and Edward Olivares (.216/.285/.324) have struggled mightily in the outfield. Connor Joe has roughly league-average numbers on the whole but hasn’t hit well when tasked with patrolling the outfield (.205/.292/.270 on those days).
Ward, 30, would give the Bucs a steady bat to plug into a corner spot, with Reynolds manning the other. The 2024 campaign hasn’t been Ward’s best, but he’s hitting .238/.321/.417 (107 wRC+) with 14 homers on the year. And dating back to a 2021 breakout, the former first-round pick carries a .259/.340/.441 slash with quality defensive marks, particularly in left field. Ward’s below-average speed limits his range, but he has a strong and accurate arm that’s helped him to be a solid defensive contributor.
For a perennially cost-conscious club like Pittsburgh, Ward makes extra sense. He’s being paid a reasonable $4.8MM in 2024 and is controllable for two additional seasons beyond the current campaign. He’ll earn a pair of raises in arbitration for 2025 and 2026, but his price tag isn’t likely to balloon to untenable levels, even by the Pirates’ standards. Those extra two seasons of control make him a particularly appealing target for a club that doesn’t have a top-ranked outfield prospect knocking down the door at the moment but is teeming with young pitching talent that looks like the foundation for a competitive core.
The Angels are reportedly reluctant to trade their players who are controlled beyond the current season, though it’s always possible that stance is at least partially posturing. It’s also feasible that the Pirates feel Ward checks enough boxes for them that they’re willing to make an offer the Angels don’t feel they can pass up, even if their general preference is to only deal from their stock of rental players. That talks are ostensibly substantial even with three weeks to go until the deadline would suggest that Pittsburgh is at least willing to discuss the possibility of parting with some compelling names.
Zeise says Pittsburgh IS actively trying to get the deal across the finish line.
the Pittsburgh media are taking turns making up stories of insider connections, but really it’s just other Pittsburgh media people feeding them rumors. Alex Stumpf and Jon Mayo are only Pittsburgh media with real connections.
DK has legit connections too.
No he doesn’t. Tell me the last story he broke?
Mayo got the Skenes pick scoop. Stumpf got Keller extension.
DK is too concerned about grandstanding downtown and finding a third. Ask his former employees how he is and you’ll understand why he has no connections. Works in the City of Bridges and he’s burned damn near every one of them.
Zeise and Hile both work for the Post-Gazette. Zeise is a sports columnist that writes about all sports and Hile is the Pirates beat writer.
Good sources I think. I’m just hoping they can make a few legit moves to get this team over the top to consistently good offensively and one more solid pen arm
I’m fairly certain that Chapman is on the block or at least taking inquiries from other clubs
I’d be 100%ok with that. He makes me nervous every time he’s in.
exactly, Walkingtheplank!
He reminds me of a one time closer for the Pirates, Mitch Williams. His nickname was “ wild thing “ because he made every save opportunity a wild experience
Chapman does the same thing
I remember Mitch, and he remembers Joe Carter,lol. Grilli was the same for me in 2013. He’d get it done,but not without giving me a minor heart attack first.
Notice how there are no direct quote from Zeise? Would be far too many ‘ummmm’ and ‘uhhhhs’. “The ummmm pirates are uhhhhh in ummm talks with uhhhh the uhhhh angels…” No clue how the guy has the career he does.
notice how I don’t care. If the trade is made it will be reported, if it isn’t, we will know that too
people get too wound up over stuff that they have no control over
Williams never played for the Bucs, but did play for the Phillies
Gives us something to talk about. 2 awful Pittsburgh sources. And the national source is meh. If Passan said Angels don’t want to trade controllable players I would say this story is bs. Although I can see the Angels saying this thinking it will increase players value.
Could be Pirates marketing. Will find out soon enough.
or it could be Nutting just trying to fire up the fans
That’s what I said to. It was fun to talk about. I had a big lunch so this article came at the perfect time.
But the tweet says this. ‘I have been told that Taylor Ward is one of many players the Pirates have inquired about in recent weeks. However, there looks to be nothing more than interest at this time.”
How many baseball trades has Ziese broke the news on? Nutting just found someone stupid enough to do his marketing for him.
Could be as simple enough as Pirates asked if he was available and Angels said no.
I expect Winker or that type or well Jack’s been much better of late we like what we have here already.
keeping Taylor out of the starting lineup is best if they continue to play well offensively. He might be a good defensive center fielder, he has trouble putting the bat on the ball
Joe isn’t in the lineup again for tonight’s game, Ben is pretty much going with the same one as last night except without Taylor
@theman I don’t think Ward is what the Pirates need in the OF. I like Louis Roberts Jr from white Sox and is controlled for 3 more years. If White Sox are serious about a rebuild, I’d offer Chandler as a starting point and maybe Jack Suwinski to immediately jump in to replace Roberts. I’d make a fair offer without trading the system (a repeat of Archer trade). I’d love to have Roberts Jr on the Bucs. He’s a .239 ba .800 OBP 12 hrs but with 21 RBIs. He’d be maybe the cleanup hitter and place Rowdy in the 5th hole. If they deal for Ward after a move for Louis Roberts, I’d be convinced the Pirates are going for it the next 3 years. Add a BP arm and string a couple series wins, Pirates would look like contenders this year. Right now they are sniffing around last years record
I don’t think the sox are worried about immediately replacing Roberts.
In no way shape or form does Chandler get put into anything that doesn’t have a substantial gain to it. Even with getting a whole lot of gains this year they aren’t ready for that bigger stage yet. They are slowly getting there I feel. Need the outfielders in the system to get going. Was hoping Bowen in Altoona would take a big step forward this year but has just 3 home runs up to this point. Although his average continues to climb.
I never said I was in favor of this trade, PiratesFan1981 and would prefer an outfielder who could actually change the projectory of the season. Ward isn’t that outfielder
an article in the Post Gazette describes how two state legislatures are demanding that Nutting increase payroll and make the team more competitive so the taxpayers who funded the construction of PNC Park get something back from their investments
It’s an embarrassment for Nutting knowing that even elected politicians are sick of him being frugal
Ward and Robert are essentially the same player
Roberts is younger and has more potential power
I didn’t realize how good Robert was last year.
That contract makes it unlikely the Pirates are even looking at him tho
Still, I think people are sleeping on Ward. Good defender, good power, can run. I think he helps this lineup a lot
Local media and sports radio talk is so messed up. It’s a joke. Especially 93.7 the fan. Much like qanon conspiracy theories and you know who’s lies.
Sports Illustrated yesterday reported that the Orioles offered their top infield prospect, Holliday for Jarod Jones and Cherington said NO and this was after Jones’ injury
I don’t necessarily want Ward but the Bucs need to do something that will improve their pathetic offense.
The 12 run – 5 homer barrage on Monday was an anomaly. There’s no rational consistency to their offensive failures. 4 hits was all they managed in last night’s game without having scored a single run. Yes the pitching was terrible but to only manage 4 hits and no runs, that’s the bigger problem
In order for them to be serious contenders for a playoff spot, they will need a more aggressive offense. Pitching alone won’t be enough
I can’t wait until MLB implements automatic strike zones, these umpires all have a different idea of where the zone is located
He said he heard a deal is imminent by the end of the brewers series. He’s backtracking a little now. I’ve been listening to his show between all the commercials
Realistically for Ward I can see something like Olivares, Shim, and a young A player that the Angels liked.
No other team wanted Olivares and even less reason to want him now. If they have no one else to play they will take him as a throw in but he has almost no value.
Rest your trade sounds fine. Shouldn’t take Bubba Ashcraft or even Harrington. If it does Pirates Should move on. Barco Kennedy Solometo Mueth Reilly. Whoever they like. Even better they fall in love with a position player.
With Palacios playing better than Olivares, it would be possible that he is included in any trade, even as a throw in
The Pirates have to move someone and Angels need an Outfielder he was more of a throw in to make the trade work both sides
Have to move might mean dfa. Angels are trying to lose so they don’t need anyone. Dump salary and add players for future. Probably better off with another option.
Hmm. Pirates can do better than that. SO many better outfielders out there on bad teams. They are trying, again, to do this on the cheap: Get a marginal upgrade, another journeyman they can squeeze a few more hits out of than what they’ve got now. They’ve got a deep farm. USE IT. Go make an offer a team can’t refuse for a real difference-maker. The window does not last forever. Before you know it the kids are going to start costing arbitration money. Reynolds turns 30 soon.
Ward is a solid outfielder who would be a good addition. Leaving the Angels cesspool would be beneficial to him.
ever been to Pittsburgh, mendy? Or have you ever been to PNC Park?
My guess is no on both counts and everything you think you know about Pittsburgh is what you read in comic books
? Best ballpark, best fan’s when winning. They are a team with that young pitching coming! They will be around the top in next year or two!Mets hung around for years with Seaver,Koosman,Matlock young Nolan Rryan.
Ward combined with Joe is a All Star!
Add in Michael A Taylor and the three could be Hall of Famers
Oops meant Jack. Jack Ward all star. Joe Winker another all star. Ward is good enough to play everyday. Get our Haines on him and he can hit RHP like a all star as well!
Getting Haines on him, he might go into a tailspin
I think the players are doing well despite Haines’ direction
best fans when winning? lmao…that makes them fair weather fans
Do you know how AJ Burnett is, Mendy?
A strike out pitcher who began his career with Florida, pitched a hitter there, became a free agent and signed with the Blue Jays and was traded to the Yankees
He didn’t enjoy the atmosphere playing in NY and when a trade proposal was made, him being a 10-5 veteran, he jumped at the chance to play for Pittsburgh
Know why? Less pressure, better fan base and a real chance to shine as a veteran pitcher
He helped to lead the Pirates to 3 consecutive playoff appearances and after signing another free agent deal with the Phillies, he realized that he had made a mistake, got out of that contract and came back to Pittsburgh so he could retire as a Pirate
Hr became a fan favorite and on his last day of the season, ownership celebrated his contribution to the club by having a special day just in his honor
Do you know how 10-5 actually works ???? He was never with the Yankees for 5 yrs so he didn’t have 10-5 veto rights
10-5 is 10 yrs in the league with 5 yrs on the same team
Need to know what your talking about there buddy
You could have just corrected me without becoming indignant so you are now muted steelerlosernation
see how that works?
Who is better? The guy is playing on a horrible team and lost all of his protection. Teams pitch around him with Trout and Rendon out. Lt year he had Ohtani. He’s on pace for close to 30HR and leads their team in RBI…. and they don’t get on base for him. Ward is one of the best left fielders in the game and is controllable for three-years. of course we go get him. Angels need pitching– pick one and go. Pirates might want a reliever along with Ward.
Which reliever do you give, because ours aren’t exactly lights out either
Look at last night’s game as proof
this franchise hasn’t put a consistent winner on the field since the 1970’s so it only makes sense that the fans have become fair weather types
If you knew the history of this team you wouldn’t be such an embarrassment
Reynolds turns 30 soon but you fail to mention that he’s currently having the best season of his career
Like who? Jazz or Robert? 2 overrated players that would cost way more than Ward? pass.
Agreed. Pirates current team has had some dud prospects. Deal them now. This WAR argument needs to stop. I’m watching a player in Toronto with so-called good WAR with more negative impact than positive in Varsho. Ward doesn’t move the needle.
@its_happening No offense but a comment like that demonstrates a likelihood that either you only watch the team you root for, only care about offense, or both. The league average slash line is .243/.312/.396. As bad as his offense has been, he’s only hitting 10% below that in this modern age of very poor offense while being a fantastic baserunner and arguably being the best defensive outfielder in baseball. There’s a reason why WAR likes him. The game isn’t measured solely by what happens at the plate.
the Bucs rank near the bottom in runs scored and average
The game might not be solely measured by what happens at the plate but if you can’t score more runs than your opponent you aren’t going to win
To be fair teams have proven that (gulp) you don’t need offense to have a good record look at the mariners
Never thought I would say that but however you do need a good offense to win a World Series
No offense myaccount, but I mentioned Toronto thinking it would be a giveaway that the Jays are my team. Seeing you didn’t understand that I’m not sure if answering what you just said will matter. But here it is…
League average proves my point; Pirates need to go bigger. They’re not signing big free agents, so go get controllable pieces.
As for WAR, it doesn’t measure (properly) what happens in the field either. Scorekeepers do not count errors, legitimately, anymore. The very player I referenced has committed errors that has not been counted, missed “hits” because he cannot take control in the outfield, and is hitting below .200 with about a .670 OPS and 11 bombs. He’s just under a 3-WAR.
Time to find new measurable because WAR ain’t it.
The Bucs have been af the bottom of offensive categories for 3 years and if scoring runs wasn’t important, Paul Skenes would be 10-0 instead of 5-0
In his other starts they didn’t score enough runs to win
Huh? I knew Toronto was your team. What in my comment suggested I didn’t think that? My point is you watch Varsho a lot so you think he’s below average when tons of everyday regulars for other teams are performing just as poorly at the plate (or worse) with much worse defense and baserunning, and obviously you aren’t watching those players because you would appreciate Varsho’s game much more if you did. LF is the worst position in baseball currently. You would hate watching at least 25 other LFs if you think Varsho is a negative.
I made no comment about how the Pirates should approach a trade. My statement was solely directed at you referring to Varsho as a net negative. I don’t think your eye test on Varsho is accurate nor do I agree with your take on measuring defensive value.
A deeper dive into the facts about this offense is required though. Yes, it was a dismal offense for the first two months, very typical of a young team. That said, since June 1st, we are averaging 4.6 runs per game, which ranks 13th in all of baseball. There isn’t a single player trade that’s really out there right now, but if adding a player or two that keeps this team in the top half of offensive teams for the rest of the year and the cost isn’t high, you’ve got to make that move. Ward is essentially Connor Joe with more power and that is a boost to this team.
yes they have improved offensively but they are also known for losing to teams that they should beat and from lack of run production
There really hasn’t been any consistency from the starters other than Reynolds
Check the Rangers average during last years WS and your argument goes poof
@myaccount you haven’t watched the Jays and Varsho enough to make that assertion. Not only has Varsho been an easy out, he’s not playing CF for a reason; Jays knew they needed a big bat and opted to overpay Kiermaier with virtually no competition to get Kiermaier. Why? Because they know Varsho is not a field general.
We have seen many balls fall in due to lack of communication, and these are all called hits BTW. Varsho’s arm is not strong either and teams test it. His high assist total is a reflection of this. The mathematical equation of WAR needs to be re-assessed. Not all walks are valued, and the defensive measurements are still not accurate for a variety of reasons.
With that, id take a masher in LF which is what the Jays need.
WAR overrated defense & Varsho is nowhere near the best defensive OFer in the league
Until they have a true calculation for WAR it’s all subjective
who cares what you think!
Varsho – reason 7 why Atkins should be slimfasted out of the Jays organization…
Then you only follow the Pirates and not other teams.
name these “ dud prospects “
who are the dud prospects , Its Happening?
name them or are you all bluster?
Henry Davis, Nick Gonzalez (who’s somewhat performing), Bae, Contreras, Swaggerty, Peguero, should I keep going? Ok…
Termarr Johnson not performing, Solometo not performing and they’re arguably 2 of your top 4 prospects. Kramer, Tucker, Newman, Kranick….they’ve been perpetually high in the draft order for most of the last 30 years. Trade these alleged studs for controllable assets. Pirates track record for development is not as good as people think.
Gonzalez has found his offensive stride, Davis has had injuries and concussions, Contrares plays for the Angels, Swaggerty is gone and the others you listed were drafted by a different General Manager
What you did manage to get right is the organizational structure for player development. This has been an issue for years, at least with the position players. Pitching prospects not so much
Johnson went through a long period this year where he wasn’t producing but he’s picked it up recently
But you forgot Ashcraft who will probably make his major league debut at some point this season
Journeyman? Ward has only been with the Angels since the time he was drafted. Right now is a weird time in MLB where there is a shortage of productive hitting outfielders. There’s not a lot available and many teams looking for upgrades in their outfield. If the Pirates were to acquire a star player, they would have to pay a lot in both prospects and salary. The Pirates aren’t doing that…
Knowing Pirates fans living around here, they were perfectly happy to throw in anyone and everyone to get a guy like Ward. I trust Cherington more than that but my biggest worry is they throw someone in, the guy goes Tatis Jr (but keeps improving) and then I get a decade to hear “how could you give up so and so” who is the same guy you had no problem handing over at the time.
Yeah, no. Don’t sell the farm for a guy over 30, 2 years removed from his last good season.
do you know what the definition of the word “ journeyman “ is?
In baseball terms, it’s a player that has played for many teams
Taylor Ward does not meet your definition of a journeyman
SMH
Why would they burn the farm just to make a mediocre team with 2 of their best pitchers on innings limits have a chance at making it to a wild card spot?
Teams hardly ever give up top prospects anymore and still make trades. No player potentially on the move will seriously impact a teams farm other than maybe Robert or Mason Miller. The Pirates can acquire upgrades without losing guys in their top 3-5 prospects. And if they do have to give up a good pitching prospect, so be it.
Like who? Arozarena? Too expensive. Chisholm? They want a ton at this point. Who do you know who’s on the market possibly?
lol no there are not
Agreed, and Ward is already 30!
Apparently January 27 in your mind is “ soon”
That’s exactly the kind of thinking that prices a team out of the trade market. Depth is about getting as much out of every position/roster spot as possible. The best teams will often have the most positions with at least league average or better production. The article says the Pirates are getting nothing out of their OF outside of Reynolds. That means there could be negative production from the rest of the OF, and just going back to zero alone is an upgrade. Think of it like this. If a position has a -2 WAR, and then the team in question gets a league average 2 WAR player to fill that hole, not only does that position go back to zero, but it actually becomes a 4 win upswing. Same thing applies to calling up prospects who then perform. That’s how teams suddenly become contenders.
Good job pirates this will bump the attendance up
Good job angels you are actually doing what you are supposed to do
Let’s see what the Angels return is before praising them.
Nice to see the Pirates turning their attention to buying in an average division. Would be happy to see them beef up as they pursue a Wild Card spot.
when Paul Skenes pitches at PNC Park, he draws a sellout crowd
Bringing Cutch back has increased attendance too
Jared Jones is no chopped liver either. Steve’s preseason ROY pick, if you didn’t know. lol
The conversation was about attendance not who’s a good pitcher
pay attention
Very true. But Skenes can’t pitch everyday. Our attendance is 2nd from the bottom and even a double digit winning streak wouldn’t help it much.
It’s not 2nd from the bottom.
How would you know? They haven’t had that kind of sustained winning streak for years. When Skenes pitches, he puts at least another 15k in the seats.
What if this increased attendance and optimism makes bob nutting keep his word and increase the payroll?
Skies are blue in Pittsburg right now
The Bucs made the playoffs 3 years in a row about a decade ago and Nutting still didn’t raise the payroll
All with the team setting home attendance records
Exactamundo
Baloney. Look at the numbers. Payroll increased from 2012 ($63m) to 2017 ($100m) before plummeting to $35m in 2021. Nutting kept his word. He may not have spent as much as you would have liked him to, but payroll did increase. Spending other people’s money is always easy.
Not really. Since 2012 the Pirates have been 27-30th most season with just 3 years that were higher than that and never higher than 22nd and even that was only once, in 2015.
legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/na…
The franchise is valued at $1.3 billion dollars. Nutting can easily afford to raise the payroll significantly
It’s the least he can do considering our taxes funded the construction of PNC Park
Skeptical- Please do not introduce facts into any discussion on this site..
Pads-Really.The salary totals were raised during the period of Pirates contention to reasonable small market levels.
Nutting spends very little money when they have bad teams or mediocre ones.
He will spend when they have good teams.
He depends on internal development which unfortunately the Pirates has never been very good at.This includes now with hitting and fundamentals development.
did he increase payroll at the trade deadlines?
Not really. The facts are there. Sorry you don’t like them. They are what they are.
Pittsburgh is spelled with an “ H”
$5 tickets! No fees? Taxes? No wonder they are selling out!!!!!
It’s PITTSBURGH…..NO WONDER YOUR SAD,AND TORMENTED…TRULY SAD…ONLY EUROPEANS SPELL PITTSBURGH WITHOUT THE H. AND EUROPE WAS THE PLACE OF 2 WORLD WARS. SKIES ARE BLUE HERE, BUT FOGGY IN YOUR HEAD
Not sure about the sellout crowds. At his Sunday June 23rd start we went with a friend that lives there and bought last minute tickets at the box office for $5. There might have been 25k in the stands.
Granted that is one game and it was a Sunday, not a Saturday.
Fans are flocking to see Skenes pitch as it is a potential highlight film each time.
Once he is allowed to throw more than 100 pitches it will become a potential no hitter every game.
Milwaukee drew 36,000 plus fans for today’s game with Skenes pitching
Knowing the Angels, they will probably want some MLB ready talent. Maybe Bailey Falter to plug into their rotation.
Falter is out with an elbow problem. If the Angels want a close to major league ready arm, Braxton Ashcraft is the guy.
Ashcraft is far superior in a trade for Ward. The Angels would have to throw in a sweetner to get him
No he’s not. Pirates would need to add to the deal most likely.
yes he is because he’s not yet under control for free agency and is a better pitcher than Ward is a hitter
No chance the Angels get one of the top 5 pirates prospects for Ward. Maybe like their number 9 prospect and an MLB ready guy but that’s about all it would cost.
The Pirates will need to overpay for Ward as he’s under team control for two additional seasons. The Angels are in no rush to trade him, so it seems that Pittsburgh is being aggressive in their pursuit of him. It would definitely take more than just Ashcraft.
Ashcraft isn’t getting traded for Ward lmao. The best prospect they could get is someone like Mitch Jebb or Mike Burrows, and even they are iffy.
Ashcraft is the type of prospect you trade for Robert, not Ward. I think your expectations on a return for Ward are way too high.
I mean, you’re not wrong. Ashcraft is/was a top 100 arm. But it’s a sellers market right now.
I’m hoping Barco isn’t part of the deal, but it wouldn’t surprise me if he were.
I’d hope Barco isn’t a part of the deal either, but he’s far more likely than Ashcraft. You don’t trade top 100 guys for Taylor Ward. That’s reserved for big impact players haha.
That’s not an insult to Ward either, he’s a solid player and he’d improve the Pirates (especially against LH pitching).
I said this the other day and I will say it again. I don’t think Pirates fans understand what it takes to be a buyer at the trade deadline.
I am a Cardinals fan. Look at what the Pirates got for a couple months of Quintana. Ward is under control through 2026.
Ashcraft is not a top 100 prospect.
The Pirates have been buyers at the deadline 6 times since 2012, we definitely know what expectations should be.
The Quintana trade turned out well for the Pirates, but he only returned a young reliever and a B/C prospect (who still hasn’t cracked the MLB). That trade only turned out well because the Pirates saw the starting potential in Oviedo and gave him a shot, but even he’s now out with TJ.
Ward isn’t that good, he’s just a little above average and 30 years old. You aren’t trading a top 100 prospect for him. The Pirates have got better players for less at the deadline.
An average outfielder is a valuable player. Average isn’t bad. That’s average for a big league starting caliber outfielder which the Pirates certainly could use.
And like I said Ashcraft is not a top 100 prospect.
Name a better trade. Name one.
What about Priester? Or Harrington? The Pirates don’t need all these starters.
You guys get silly with this prospect hoarding stuff. Ashcraft probably isn’t gonna make the rotation anytime soon.
yes we Pirate fans are dumber then dirt when it comes to being a buyer at the trade deadline
Ashcraft is on Baseball America’s updated midseason top 100 list and he’ll be on multiple others once they release. He only wasn’t on preseason ones because he was newly back from TJ surgery. He’s been lights out this season and is in AAA now dominating.
Name a better trade for the Angels? There isn’t one because they aren’t getting a prospect that good. For the Pirates? There are dozens of better offers with the “best” prospect being someone like Mike Burrows or Mitch Jebb.
Someone has unrealistic views on the trade market and it isn’t me.
Ashcraft is the #5 prospect in the Pirates organization according to MLB.com
What about Priester or Harrington? Priester was a highly rated guy but he hasn’t looked very good so far.
How many starters do the Pirates need? They have Skenes and Jones that’s 2 sure things. Keller just signed an extension I believe. Who takes the other 2 spots in 2025?
What about Priester? Or Harrington?
Priester is fine to include in the deal and I’d be okay with that if that’s what the Angels want, but it would be him and a C type prospect or utility player. Harrington is too good of a prospect for Ward.
I’m not a prospect hoarder, I want the Pirates to trade some. But, you don’t just give them away for average 30 year old players. Harrington and Ashcraft should be in a package that fetches you Robert or Chisholm, not Ward.
Again, prospects have value just like MLB players. The Pirates should be open to trading most of their prospects, but they have to be fair trades. No more Baz, Glasnow, and Meadows for Chris Archer type trades.
Yeah you are afraid to lose the deal and acting like a weirdo because of it.
Good gosh man. Sometimes you gotta stop staring at prospect lists and focus on winning games.
“the Pirates don’t need all these starters “
Jones is out until sometime in August, Skenes’ innings will be limited at some point, Falter is on the IL as is Marco Gonzalez
Sounds like you really don’t know what you’re talking about and have this impression that you know more about what is going on in the Pirates organization than their own fans
If I’m not mistaken MLB redid their top 100 prospects this week and Ashcraft isn’t on the list. Only 3 Bucs are on it.
Termarr, Chandler and Solometo.
Yeah, the Bucs did well on the Quintana trade
You’re the one acting like a weirdo. You’re acting like Ward is Luis Robert Jr.. He’s four years older than Robert and half the player at a non-defensive premium position. Ward is going to fetch half as much as Robert, I don’t know what’s hard about that concept.
I am not talking just 2024 fella I am talking long term. And if it’s all about 2024 why do you keep talking like Ashcraft is untouchable?
You aren’t making any sense.
Skenes
Jones
Keller
Falter
Oviedo
Ashcraft
Priester
Harrington
And then coming soon
Solometo
Chandler
Now why do the Pirates need all of those guys?
One would hope that the Bucs FO would indeed deal some of their pitching for a bat or two. But it’s a sellers market and they would have to spend more for less in return, at least right now.
The Pirates probably could get Robert except I don’t know if they want to pay him he’s got big salaries coming the next few years. And that would require a lot of those precious prospects.
MLB.com doesn’t have Ashcraft in the top 100 at midseason. With Skenes and Jones no longer “prospects” they have Chandler, Termarr and Solometo
Ashcraft isn’t untouchable. The only “untouchable” pitching prospect is probably Chandler right now.
Ashcraft is just “untouchable” in a trade for Ward. He’s perfectly fine being involved in a trade for Robert or Chisholm.
What is so hard to understand about this? Pirates fans are perfectly fine trading their surplus of pitching, but the trades have to be somewhat fair lmao.
add to coming soon
Barco
Meuth
Kennedy
Kellington
Burrows
Shim
Cherington would screw it up if he did.
Greatangus, Baseball America bumped Ashcraft up into the top 100, not MLB. The others haven’t released midseason lists yet (if they do at all).
See how many top prospects moved last season.
Not according to Baseball Trade Values, which suggests the Pirates would have to throw in, eg, Hunter Barco, to make a Braxton-Ward trade fair.
People are undervaluing 2.5 seasons of a very cheap Ward, who is pacing to his fourth straight season of above average OPS+, with a steady glove at the corners.
Ashcraft would be a nice get for the Angels – the sort of AA and above pitching they should be targeting – but he’s still a 24 yo who has been in the Pirates system for seven years without an MLB visit, so I think he’s appropriately valued by the BTV model.
maybe injuries? TJ surgery? suspensions?
Oviedo is out from TJ surgery and might not be the same pitcher when he returns
Falter has already matched his season high in innings pitched and is 27
Priester is 23 and until last night really hadn’t made an impression
It seems that you don’t put much thought into your comments before posting them here
Skenes is on a limited innings schedule as is Jones who is also on the IL
Not sure where this top 100 business is coming from. Ashcraft is not currently on the top 100 for either MLB Pipeline or Fangraphs, and isn’t really on the bubble. Depending on the rankings, he falls into the 5-10 range among the Pirates prospects – totally what a team would expect to forfeit for 2.5 years of an MLB regular with a 4 year track record of above-average offense.
Looked good last night
Falter, Oviedo, possibly Ortiz, Priester, Ashcraft . If everyone stays healthy they actually may not need to add a starter next season
That’s not happening. I can guarantee that’s not the return for Ward. There are 10 other outfielders on the block and Ward is the least sexiest name out there.
Yes the Angels can ask but they will settle for less or hang onto him. I would bet younger upside prospects seeing how far away the Angels are!
Baseball America has him top 100 on their updated list. He’s wasn’t on any preseason because he returned from TJ last year. Anyone who has followed the Pirates knows he’s probably the third or fourth best prospect currently and that’s where he’ll probably rank headed into next season (if he’s not traded).
The only two prospects clearly better than him are Johnson and Chandler, and then Harrington is right there with him for 3 and 4.
They certainly didn’t expect Oviedo to need TJ surgery or Falter to have elbow problems
It’s difficult to predict what injuries will occur when determining the rotation for the next season
They didn’t expect Perez or Martinez to get hurt this season either
Long gone are the days of pitchers not having serious injuries. The first TJ surgery didn’t happen until 1974 I believe
If the Angels get a top 5 prospect Cherington needs fired and Pirates fans need to find another team until he is.
Ward is a weak platoon on a real team. Pirates really need a strong platoon to pair with Joe. But Joe and Ward hit RHP well enough to be average.
A 7 through 12 should get it done. Quantity would be best route for both teams if they can’t find the right higher guy. 2 top 30 guys.
Cardinals gave the Pirates a ok reliever they didn’t see as a starter and a raw power dh that they couldn’t develop. Angels will do better than that.
Ward is above average. Average outfielders have little value.
Has nothing to do with prospect hoarding. If you trade Harrington Ashcraft it is for a stud. Not a weak platoon.
amen to everything that you said, Dream
No priester is not fine to add to the deal. The team is dealing with injuries to its rotation. And you want to trade another away? No way
Do you know the status of Falter?
Has Ashcraft or Harrington pitched a single in the MLB?
I’m not sure Cherington wants to follow the Neal Huntington approach of trading top prospects for a has been
I would like to believe he knows where it would lead to
The unemployment line
Average outfielders have a lot of value. That bum Oliveras isn’t anywhere close to average he’s below replacement level. You replace him with Ward and your team is much improved.
The Pirates have pitching. What they don’t have is outfielders. If you want to get hung up on Ashcraft because he’s playing well then fine. Solometo is a good prospect. Priester was a former first rounder.
I really hate when we have these kind of discussions this time of year and the fans of the team who will potentially trade away prospect tell everyone how great their prospects are. If I was a GM and you talked like that I would hang up and call someone else.
Either you want to win or you dont.
What did they get? Seriously
No sorry average outfielders have average value. Much less than good outfielders. Average outfielders are for rebuilding teams or desperation moves. Last thing you want to do is trade for a average outfielder if you are trying to win.
Pirates can trade for anyone they want. Few guys would require Ashcraft or even Harrington. Pirates don’t need those elite guys. They need a Jesse Winker. Maybe splurge for a Ward. Those type it only takes 20 to 40 guys. Maybe 10 to 30. Quantity not quality.
Average isn’t bad it’s average. I don’t know why you don’t understand that. It’s all about who the average player would be replacing. In this case the Pirates are very weak at corner outfield so it would improve the team a good amount.
Pirates aren’t weak at corner outfield at all. Joe is average vs rhp and all star vs lhp. Reynolds is a all star. Palacios is average. Goal is to find another average all star like Joe. A strong platoon would be perfect so you can have another all star to pair with Reynolds.
Pirates certainly don’t need average.
Joe can play 1b which is another weakness of the Pirates. That’s what would happen if they got Ward. Duh.
Ashcraft AND a low level prospect for Ward. That is the only deal that will get Ward to Pittsburgh. You Pirates fans are delusional—maybe all those years of being sellers instead of buyers. Buyers almost always overpay. Ward is an above average bat due to his power. He is streaky and batting average correction will come as soon as he gets hot again. Expect .260-.275 batting average. While his range is below average, is actually decent with the glove. It’s that affordability AND extra year of control that is so valuable. So sending the Halos the 9th best prospect for Ward is not going to get it done.
30 years old is prime for most players. Ward is an above average bat. Don’t forget about Ward’s affordability and extra year of control. That has value. Actually if I were the Angels, I’d ask for Ashcraft and another low level prospect.
Exactly. Contenders almost always overpay at the deadline. You have to in order to take your best shot.
Disagree! Pirates have one Outfielder. A good platoon and that’s it in the OF! No competitive team has this kind of OF
As long as Rowdy doesn’t start listening to Haines 1b isn’t a weakness.
Pirates can easily get Ward without Ashcraft. This isn’t my first rodeo.
30 is downhill for majority actually.
Buctober, you over value prospects. The difference between your top 100 prospect and Ward is that Ward has proven himself at the highest level. He has done nothing but demonstrate that he is reliable on both sides of the ball. Often times a prospect doesn’t stick because they can’t be consistent at the highest level which makes yours and everyone else’s prospects a gamble. He also has 2 additional years of control. How foolish would you have to be to trade away consistency and create another hole to fill on your own team? One of the few spots on the field that the Angels don’t have to worry about? How long is it before Skeenes asks for 300 million? Are the Bucs going to pay it? No… so the window is small and Ward makes perfect sense for the Bucs. I’d rather not see Ward go unless he brings a significant haul and that means more than just one of these top 100 prospects that might not cut it at the MLB level.
No I don’t. I accurately evaluate them.
Ward has proven himself to be an average regular. He’s a solid, but uspectacular player that’s best suited as a weak side of a platoon. You don’t trade top prospects for that. I can’t think of a single time it’s ever happened.
The rest of your post is nonsense. The window is small? What are you smoking? Skenes and Jones are rookies, Reynolds is signed long-term, and Cruz is controlled long-term.
If the Angels want anything other than prospects ranked in the 10-30 range they can keep him because he’s not worth a top 10 prospect. I’d be fine acquiring nobody rather than trading a top prospect for a player the caliber of Ward.
Not my first rodeo either. Based on what you’re putting out there there won’t be a trade happening. You highly undervalue Ward’s value and I believe that you’re way off the mark.
An average regular is absolutely not best suited for the weak side of a platoon. That’s simply false.
Hopefully they keep Ward because Angels fans are going to be disappointed. Don’t see a top 100 pitching prospect going back. Stove doesn’t seem hot on this one.
Joe is overexposed in a fulltime role and would do best as small side platoon 1B and spot starter in the OF with some pinch hit PAs. Palacios is a AAAA guy who the org likes because he has “energy”. Ward is better against the big side platoon than Joe is and enough so that he wouldn’t have to be a pure platoon guy. The problem is, Suwinski, Taylor, Joe and Ward all historically have hit lefties best or not hit at all. I’d not bother with a Ward if I didn’t also get a Bleday or someone better in CF who could hit RHP.
Stinkinthepink is just another wannabe know it all like dream gm…both talk like they know everything…yea everything but their real names
Right now Palacios is hitting better than Joe, Taylor and Suwinski and doesn’t strike out as often
Ward’s numbers are his numbers. You’re acting like we all can’t just look up his splits.
He hits right handed pitching well enough to be passable as a regular, but he should be hitting at the bottom of the order against them. He crushes left handed pitching, so against them he can hit in the middle of the order.
Hmmm, that sounds like someone else the Pirates have. Oh yeah, Connor Joe.
He’s best suited as a weak side platoon in a perfect world, but passable as a full-time player. He’s not a needle mover at all and everyone knows that (except a couple of Angels fans).
Guys of Ward’s caliber NEVER bring back a prospect as good as Ashcraft, but they do bring back multiple prospects in the 10-30 range in a good farm system.
Buctober, are we doing this just to dance? Ward has a positive WAR as a regular who has a track record of consistency and that somehow equals a low side platoon in your opinion? Can you actually look at this scenario objectively? I am struggling to see your rational?
It will take more than Priester for Ward. Ashcraft would need to be the centerpiece of the deal.
But I would trade Jordyn Adams (OF) straight up for Priester. They are both former first round picks and top prospects that haven’t performed in their limited big league experience. Maybe a change of scenery…
Oldhalo, his numbers are free for everyone to see. He barely has an OPS above .700 against right handed pitching. For a guy that doesn’t play a defensive premium position, that’s a platoon player in most cases. He’s an average regular because of the platoon splits and okay defense at the corner outfield position (which I’ve already said). He’s a slightly better version of Connor Joe (look it up)
I don’t know what else to tell you, you’re the one not looking at it objectively, which is why almost everyone below this article is on the same page with me. Guys like him don’t return top 10 prospects in a good farm system, they just don’t.
The only people who are “on the same page as you” are other Pirates fans.
A 700 OPS is about league average. Average isn’t bad you keep pretending it is but it isnt.
Connor Joe can play 1b. It’s not an either or situation.
Nah, it’s basically everyone except a few Angels fans. Which is fine, everyone has a little homerism in them.
I never said average is bad, stop making stuff up. I also never said it’s an either/or situation. I’d take Ward on the Pirates, but it’s going to be for two prospects in the 10-30 range in the system that average out to about 20th.
Stop making up things and putting words in my mouth. Hopefully you understand better now. I didn’t think it was hard in the first place, but glad I could explain further.
Hoarding good young starting pitchers is good unless you get a very good deal for any of them.
Injuries are commonplace for these pitchers .Just ask the Marlins.
Ward is too old to get the best pitching talent.A deal should not be made for the better Pirate young pitchers unless they get real talent in return.
And they are not going to want to pay Robert nor should they.
Buctober, 77% of top 100 pitching prospects fail (see article below) to stick at the MLB level. Getting back to my unbiased point, why should the Angel’s trade a proven player with control for a 23% chance at getting lucky? Are you sure that you’re not putting too much stock in the Bucs prospects? Or do you know for fact that they can’t miss?
twinkietown.com/2021/3/10/22314722/mlb-minnesota-t…
I dunno about BucJuly but you sold me. He’s gonna fail anyways so why not just trade him for a weak platoon!!!!!!
But how about Solometo instead? He’s in the top 100!!!!!
Oldhalo, I’ll simply say one thing for you to ponder.
Why has a player comparable to Ward never returned a top 100 type prospect in a trade?
I think if you ponder this, and think about value, you’ll come to the conclusion that you’re expecting too much of a return for Ward. He’s an average regular that’s best suited to be the weak side of a platoon and fill-in/part-timer against right handed pitching.
Buctober keeps making this claim that a 700 ops outfielder has never been traded for a teams top 10 prospect! How would it be possible to even know that? A top 10 prospect from a team whose prospect ranking is in the bottom 5 is much less valuable than a top 10 prospect from a team ranked in the top 5! Looking up the Pirates prospect ranking being at 20 out of 30 speaks for itself!
An injured pitcher? That sounds like he is right up the Angels alley.
Not giving up Ashcraft!,AA A pitcher Kennedy maybe. Pegero ss at AAA.
Paul Skenes, let’s get it done!
Nice. This would be a decent pick up for the Bucs, on their way to an appearance in the 2024 fall classic.
Whatever is offered to the Angels make sure Taylor is included in the deal
Throw in Suwinski & I approve
Ward isn’t too exciting and I still don’t think the Pirates are contenders in 2024 but he shouldn’t cost a bunch to acquire and he should help them so yeah why not.
Love Taylor. Great guy and steady player.
His offense is streaky. He always starts and ends hit with a swoon in the middle. I’d love to see him follow suit, get hot, and help the Pirates
They certainly need an upgrade over Michael A Taylor and Connor Joe
Connor is fine. As a platoon bench guy. He’s be fine since BC acquired him. He’s not a problem when used correctly.
Joe went from having a BA around .300 in early June to having one now around .240
He’s 31 and Shelton rarely plays him anymore because other players are picking up the slack and hitting the ball well
That makes him expendable
Hate to tell you but Ward pretty much is Connor Joe. Lil better but about the same guy.
Ward is much better than Connor Joe. Ward has 24-26 HR power. He’s not an exciting name, I get it, but he’s the type of guy that quietly produces and would complement any lineup.
we get it. He gave you an interview
Sounds like the Angels let something leak to drive up other teams offers.
Being that the source is Pittsburgh media I doubt it. More like Nutting advertising he is trying. It’s either a marketing scam or the deal is done and they are throwing the local guys a bone and bigger guys will break the official news then another guy the prospects going back.
Glad to see at least someone in the division outside Milwaukee who is trying to improve.
You don’t think the other teams are trying to improve right now? Cmon man.
I’d expect the Bucs, Brewers, and Reds all to be buyers. St Louis should probably hold, and the Cubs should probably hold or maybe do a small sale.
I hope the Cardinals stand pat. Because they ain’t that good either.
Reds have already started lowering expectations on buying, as we expected them to. That is the history of this front office at the deadline.
The Reds have a fairly good young team.
We are not in love with our front office either.
Nor with our management.
Pham would be a nice addition. Big upgrade from the current OF and reasonably priced
Ward is like 5 years younger and putting up better numbers. Not by a lot, but it is what it is.
anyone who thinks that Pham is an upgrade from the current OF which includes Bryan Reynolds is delusional
I am not even sure he would be an upgrade from Suwinski who has been pounding the ball lately
Maybe Michael A Taylor but that’s not saying much
Did you read the thing? A combined 84 wRC+ from OFers not named Bryan Reynolds. Pham’s got a 104 wRC+ going through today, can play a bit of CF and while he hits lefties better he’s just below average against RHP so he’d be a solid platoon bat for Suwifski. There are other options, too. Pillar. Jesse Winker. They’re all much cheaper than Ward. Ideally Don’tCarington would get someone who can play CF and trade Michael A Taylor to someone who has a long enough batting order to suffer a guy who can’t hit at all for his up the middle defense.
the Bucs are near the bottom in runs scored and average
will the exceptional defense drive in any runs?
Pham might be a good defender but his best offensive days are long over
Taylor is a good defender and his best offensive days are over too
Pham is lower value version of Joe who is lower value version of Ward.
A nice addition would be a lefty bat.
Your assistant says that they should trade for Winker.
Skenes please! I’m going back to sleep to live that dream. Don’t pinch me.
Pham is on the downside of his career, the Bucs already have one of those players
Michael A Taylor
Does it really matter when he will be gone next year.
he’s under control for 2 years: It says that in the article
@theman3 was talking about pham I replied from your comment about him lol.
Shows what you know
Pham is a cheap rental who would be the 4th best hitter on the pirates instantly, that’s not insignificant and would cost a lot less than ward who is not going to be worth what they’ll have to give up imo.
4th best hitter? Aim low whydontcha?
When your team only has 3 or 4 good hitters, adding another good one is an upgrade. I didn’t say he was a savior, but he helps and doesn’t cost an arm and a leg
except that Pham isn’t better than Reynolds, Cruz or even Tellez at this point in the season. He is better than Taylor but my dog could hit better than him and he doesn’t have thumbs
I don’t see him as an upgrade
Pham’s contract is for $6 million. The Bucs don’t want to spend even half of that for an older rental player
If they are going to trade a prospect they will demand a player with a few years of control
Pham is a PR nightmare. A jerk who would be looking for a strip joint after his first game. No thanks
Might want to check on Ward’s leg after he ran into the outfield wall on Sunday had had to leave the game.
He played the last 2 games
I think the Angels really want another win-win trade like O’Hoppe – Marsh. But from what I see that is the exception and not the rule.
Could that be in the form of a Henry Davis?
I might sound insane but a change of scenery would help him especially with endy Rodriguez in the catcher room
Davis would have to be shoehorned in the outfield in Anaheim (because of Logan) but there might not be a better manager to help discover his game than Ron Washington
Teams already know Davis was atrocious in the outfield. He’s a catcher/DH. And Ron Washington has coaches to work with Davis, he’s too busy wondering why his last gig is with the Angels.
Actually Davis wasn’t atrocious at all the plate when he played right field but he had never played in the outfield before last year
this year at catcher he has struggled
Davis just came out from concussion protocol so I am not sure he would either be available or if the Angels would want to take a chance on him
Fan- If the Pirates have any brains Davis will be the starting rightfielder for them next year.
Not sure if they do though.
I’d be fine with this I guess. Won’t move the needle but an upgrade. Him, Reynolds, Palacios/Suwinski OF, Tellez/Joe strict platoons. Make Palacios learn CF.
Try to get Estevez too.
Keep Ward, he’s young enough and cheap enough for the Angels to build around! So trade Pillar!
@kings pillar will get a ptbnl. They need to reset I like ward, but they need to change it up. They can get something in free agency.
A.) he’s 30
B.) you don’t “build around” a league average hitter
C.) Angels don’t have anything to “build around him” with.
Hell no!! Deal Ward for anything you can get! The Angels are going nowhere anytime soon and Ward is avg at best!!
@radhippo agree you even deal rengifo and the whole bullpen even if you get a ptbnl.
Last 30 games Ward hasn’t put up good numbers at all. That being said, he’s an upgrade
Weird trade. 2 jobber teams.
Time for some new blood on the Angels roster. I’d like to see Adell packaged in it too.
I could see a swap including him too. My conjecture would be include Suwinski (essentially the same player as Joe), Kellington/Barco, and maybe a Shalin Polanco type. Sometimes you gotta overpay for controllable hitters
Maybe some new scenery would help Adell finally figure stuff out too. He’s athletic but can’t hit a baseball and still has defense issues, although that’s improved.
You guys would like jack then. Better d than you’d expect from a pure power guy. Kind of like a better version of Joey Gallo or Duvall lite
Olivia Dunne and Reynolds for Ward.
Whoa, Whoa, Whoa…put some respect on Livvy Dunne’s name. She’s worth more than Ward. You’d have to trade half the Angel’s roster to make that trade happen. Still might not get it done.
Bailey Falter should move to the pen. The Buc’s two LH relievers, Aroldis Chapman and Josh Fleming, are not very good.
Borucki is about to come back. Pitched in maybe his final rehab appearance last night I believe (might have him throw in one more game).
Moving a good starter to pen. Bold. I’d let him struggle first.
Get it done Perry!!! Deal Ward for anything you can get!!
Not just “anything”. Ward is actually a decent player with value. Perry should be able to receive a nice package in return.
He’s average in every way, and is completely emotionless. He’s too boring to watch any longer. If Perry can get even a mediocre offer he should do it.
I like the idea of picking up Ward depending on the price. Given his control and Salary the talent given up would be more than I would like but fair chance worth it.
Wow! MLB Trade Rumors is reporting on a rumor!
Boob nightingale reports this might be true. Skenes for ward
I hope for the sake of my good friend John Perrotta this isn’t true. Or that Cherington was fired and new gm or Nutting himself made this trade.
Ward is a premium version of Winker. 2 extra years. Better. More upside. Not as good a fit for PNC but no rule against getting more than 1 player. Ward enough is fine though. Another bat is really going for it.
A trade rumor that makes perfect sense. It also makes sense that its not coming from Bob Nightengale.
Hayes is going to the Angels for Ward
Angels have needed pitching for about a decade or more now so I think the Pirates line up pretty well since they have Skenes, Keller and Jones locked into the MLB rotation and several high caliber pitching prospects. If this deal does happen the Pirates will keep Bubba and Ashcraft out of the conversation so someone in the Solometo, Burrows, Barco, Harrington, Kennedy group would be the headliner.
Get er done Perry before he gets smacked in the head yet again.
Maybe can swing Detmers as well. He’s not doing to well in AAA. He would be a great left handed project to have
Angels aren’t giving up on Detmers so soon. He still has plenty of talent and has shown he can be a solid #2 or #3 pitcher when on his ‘A’ game.
1 hit 5 innings Paul