The Reds are telling teams they plan to trade from their bullpen, report C. Trent Rosecrans and Ken Rosenthal of the Athletic. That is not yet a signal about their deadline direction, though. According to the report, Cincinnati anticipates having a bullpen surplus as they expect Emilio Pagán and Ian Gibaut to return from the injured list next month.
Cincinnati has somewhat quietly had one of the better bullpens in the league. Reds relievers rank seventh with a 3.52 earned run average and are eighth with a 24.5% strikeout rate. The relief group had been a recurring problem before turning into one of the team’s strengths this year. Swingman Nick Martinez has thrived when working from the ’pen. Fernando Cruz has developed into one of the league’s better strikeout arms, while underrated lefty Sam Moll has continued to excel after coming over from the A’s at last year’s deadline.
The Reds don’t have a ton of maneuverability with their relief group. Cruz and Moll have locked down two spots with their performance. Closer Alexis Díaz has been inconsistent, but Cincinnati isn’t going to send him down. Justin Wilson, Buck Farmer and Lucas Sims all have the requisite service time to decline a minor league assignment. Cincinnati can’t option Tony Santillan back to the minors after selecting his contract two weeks ago.
That leaves one bullpen spot with a five-man rotation. Martinez is currently working from the starting five but could slide back to the ’pen once Carson Spiers returns from the injured list. That’d essentially complete the bullpen without having any obvious candidates to bounce between Great American Ball Park and Triple-A Louisville.
If they needed a fresh arm at that point, the Reds could designate someone for assignment. While Farmer has a 2.80 ERA over 45 innings, his strikeout and walk profile is pedestrian. Santillan had spent virtually the entire season in Triple-A, but The Athletic writes that the Reds view him as a key piece and would not want to put him back on waivers. Cincinnati could get Gibaut, Pagán and lefty Brent Suter back from injury later in the season.
While they’ll likely deal with other injuries along the way, the Reds obviously won’t be able to make any trades after next Tuesday. It seems they’re preemptively trying to get something in return for at least one or two of their relievers rather than lose players via waivers in August. The most obvious candidates for such a move are their impending free agents: Sims, Farmer and Wilson.
None of that trio would bring back a significant return. Sims, who is playing on a $2.85MM arbitration salary, has the highest ceiling of that group. He misses bats and has worked in a high-leverage capacity for the last few seasons, but he issues too many walks to be an in-demand trade chip. Sims is handing out free passes at a 13% clip over 33 frames this year after walking more than 15% of batters faced last season.
Wilson missed virtually all of 2022-23 because of Tommy John surgery and a lat injury. He returned this year with his typical velocity and has fanned more than a quarter of opponents with a 5.2% walk rate. A .365 average on balls in play has led to an unimpressive 4.85 ERA, but the 36-year-old is a fine option for teams seeking another left-hander in middle relief. Wilson is making a $1.5MM base salary.
Martinez is making $14MM this year and has a $12MM player option for next season. He’s pitching well, turning in a 3.88 ERA with excellent control over 72 frames. The fairly lofty salary and ’25 player option could lead teams to look elsewhere, though. It’s also not clear if the Reds want to deal Martinez, whose versatility they could value if they still anticipate making a playoff push.
General manager Nick Krall told Gordon Wittenmyer of the Cincinnati Enquirer yesterday that the front office had not decided on their overall deadline outlook. They’re five games under .500 and in last place in the NL Central, yet they’re within 4.5 games of a Wild Card spot in a wide open National League. Cincinnati’s game against the Braves tonight was rained out. They’ll make it up with a doubleheader on Wednesday. They play a weekend set in Tampa Bay and one game against the Cubs before the deadline.
Bullpen depth? They have one of the worst pens in the league. You can find those same guys that are considered “depth” on any Triple A team. Its sad that MLBTR are running out of ideas
Ev Analytics does rank Cincinnati’s bullpen at #27
@LFG You could always try reading the article. It was reported by Ken Rosenthal for The Athletic. It’s sad that people can’t even read the first sentence….
I have to recheck my figures because when I went down the list yesterday of ERAs for Reds relief pitchers year to date, only Cruz had a sub 4.00 ERA. But no matter how you slice it your eyes will tell you they truly do have a bottom of the league bullpen.
Their bullpen had been pretty good actually.
They do play in arguably the best hitters park not named coors but that doesn’t excuse people like Diaz not performing
I think you missed. Cruz has an over 4.00 ERA, but one of the best K rates in the game. Martinez is a highlight and under 2.00 as a reliever. Has been very useful for the Reds, making his sixth start today. Any team would want lefty Sam Moll. Brent Suter(L) and Lucas Simms both are under 4.00. Buck Farmer is under 3.00. Justin Wilson (L) doesn’t look impressive but is as good as the pitcher the Royals recently traded for. “Bottom of the league” maybe, I doubt, but it’s conspicuously lead by a struggling closer. They’re not trading the whole bullpen. On the Reds end the problem is maneuverability as the article calls it, lack of options etc. Might also want to check park splits. Home field is a band box.
@Solaris Not sure what roster you were looking at but it certainly wasn’t the Reds. Nick Martinez, Lucas Sims, Buck Farmer and Sam Moll each have an era under 4.00 and that’s just off the top of my head.
They are 5th in the league in Inherited Runners Scored percentage at 28%. They’ve allowed 40 inherited runners out 141 to score. That’s really good.
7th in the league in Holds
The article stated the Reds have bullpen depth. Technically correct. Quality of the depth is ineffective.
You may be right but not sure how much real quality RP is out there to be traded for and what would you have to give up for it?
Oh what could have been! I hope this team can shake off the terrible luck of 2024 and come back strong next season. I can actually see a world where the NL Central is major league baseball’s toughest division.
Given how many years it’s been since the Reds resembled a strong team, I wouldn’t be holding my breath for that.
They won the World Series in 1990, but they haven’t even sniffed the NLCS since 1995, and they got swept by the Braves.
How many times are we going to be reminded of when the Reds won in the playoffs. We already know this. That does not have anything to do with what’s happening now. This year got blown up by injuries and some players who are here not performing.
Might as well bring up the late 50s and early 60s when the Reds traded away a bunch of great Cuban talent for barely any return.
Or how Bob Howsman traded away Juaqin Andujar Because of his quirkiness. Ended up costing them much needed pitching depth in 1977.
I could give you more stuff to talk about which has nothing to do with the Reds now.
That is exactly right, great job. Andujar could’ve paired with Mario Soto for years. Also trading away Ray Knight for a washed up Cedeno and even giving up Hal McRae and Ross Grimsley for nothing. The one I never understood was giving away our closer Rawley Eastwick the same day we got Seaver, made no sense.
The price of having great depth sometimes. Hal was not going to play the field back when you needed sound knees and speed to play on that turf. I understood why they had to trade him. If they had the DH in NL. Imagine him and Driessen sharing that? I wish they would have picked up Steve Busby or Paul Splittorf instead of Roger Nelson.
Ross Grimsley was also considered a head case. I thought Rettenmund would help the offense. It ended up costing then the division in 74 even after winning 98 games. Rettenmund was more of a great bench player. Still Sparky would still use him against a lot of LHP in 75 and sit Griffey. Didn’t trust him fully early on to hit LH.
When you win as much as they did you really have to nitpick at this stuff. When you’re losing it gets magnified.
The Eastwick trade was because his agent was Jerry Kapstein who was having issues with a lot of teams regarding the new FA that happened after the 1976 season. He was going to play out his option and not sign. Gary Nolan was also a client. Got traded too but his arm was shot anyways.
The Mike Caldwell giveaway was also bad. Same day. Who knew he would turn into an ace in Milwaukee. But they replaced him with Joe Horner who was beyond washed up.
Coys Bacon: But imagine if they had given up a player of genuine quality for Seaver, such as Dan Driessen or Ken Griffey, instead of marginal guys like Pat Zachry, Doug Flynn, Steve Henderson, and Dan Norman?
And yet, even adding Seaver and his greatness to a team coming off back-to-back championships didn’t help them win any more.
Padura41: Shoulda, woulda, coulda, didn’t.
Since when do the Reds have a monopoly on poor trades, and where would they be without players like George Foster and Tom Seaver that they received in lopsided trades?
The Mets once traded Amos Otis for Joe Foy, Nolan Ryan for Jim Fregosi, Rusty Staub for Mickey Lolich, and Tom Seaver (to the Reds!) for a bunch of nobodies.
The Yankees once traded Fred McGriff for Dale Murray, Willie McGee for Bob Sykes, and Jay Buhner for Ken Phelps.
The Phillies once traded Ryne Sandberg for Ivan DeJesus.
The Cardinals once traded Steve Carlton for Rick Wise.
The Cubs once traded Lou Brock for Ernie Broglio.
The Giants once traded Gaylord Perry for Sam McDowell and George Foster (to the Reds!) for Frank Duffy.
You get the idea. Quit crying the Ohio River.
It didn’t help that they traded Eastwick due to who his agent was and he was playing out his option.
Mike Caldwell also and replaced him with Joe Horner. Jack Billingham had about 5 games where he pitched into the 5th-6th innings with big leads and would turn into Frankie Montas. He would just lose it. Suddenly and quickly. You could not get Borbon who was the only reliable reliever up that quickly. Dale Murray was bad.
Just never had the pitching.
Knight was a head case.
Imagine though if Kuhn didn’t overrule the Vida Blue trade. Blue and Seaver in the top of the rotation.
Bobcastelliniscat: Knight was 1986 World Series MVP. Have you forgotten?
My baseball people liked Ken Phelps bat they said Ken Phelps, Ken Phelps!!
I was waiting for someone to post that! LOL.
100% correct. Reds were a team IMO that could least afford to have all the long term injuries to key players. We had so much hope and have suffered so long waiting for a team that could contend.
redsorbust: Newsflash – No team can afford to have long-term injuries to key players.
That’s why they’re key players.
If you put aside your Reds bias, you would see that.
Blue Baron scream at the clouds much?
Bobcastelliniscat: Nothing like you Reds fans are doing with all your shoulda woulda coulda crap.
Blue and Seaver together. Whining much?
It’s not bad luck it’s a poorly constructed team with a less than mediocre manager.
Nick Martinez is tied for the highest-paid player on the Reds. He’s making $14 million this season with a player option for $12 million next season. I would expect him to be dealt. He’s been effective enough to entice other teams to pick up the tab on that salary. 46.1 innings of 1.94 ERA as a reliever this season.
they’d definitely need to pick up most of that salary to get anything valuable
I don’t know if most is accurate, but some. He’s owed like 6M for the remainder of this year. Is he worth 12M next year? Likely not but 6-7M is definitely reasonable. I could see the Reds taking on 8-9M total if and only if Martinez exercises the option.
Depth as in they have available arms to replace.
They have to do one or the other. Do not try. Do.
Sell or Buy. No excuse of well we talked and stuff and we couldn’t find a fit. When Krall starts sounding like prime Mike Brown speaking in the 90s that’s when it’s hard to take.
This reminds me of a Craigslist add where someone’s selling a “like new 2013” MacBook for like 800 dollars.
So are you saying I should be ignoring those Craigslist ads??? Dang.
Well, click on the listed players, theres a few of them i would be interested in.
The NL Central is the most difficult division to pitch in.
Especially if you have a crapola pitching staff.
What depth?
The Reds’ pen is pretty sad. Buck Farmer, Lucas Simms, Justin Wilson and Alexis Diaz are the reason they’re in last place.
Farmer and Sims have value for a contender
They had the opportunity to reinforce the backend of the bullpen in the offseason and blew it as usual.
None of these guys can be counted on when it counts. We gave seen them blow too many leads this season. You have to feel sorry for the starters who pitched well in those cases.
Too little offense is why we floundered this year although the bullpen also had a hand in it.
Once again. Like the other expert Reds fan. The Reds bullpen had only lost 1 game when leading after 7 innings going into the Detroit series.
They lost 1 game vs Detroit and then another against Washington. They still have the fewest blown games or at least within the fewest by a bit.
This has been explained and yet we have to hear this stuff again. This team has lost because of the inability of an offense to consistently score runs.
Um I would respectfully disagree. It is the long term injuries to key players that did that. While these guys have their issues and are not the best relievers out there they are and will give you acid reflux at times they are at least serviceable. As for Diaz I don’t know what happened to him. He seemed like he was on track to be a blue chip closer. Why they can’t fix him I don’t know.
T
Agree to respectfully disagree.
But they knew Fraley was injury prone and Benson only had three good months in a brief career, plus neither could hit lefties. With Bell’s love of platoons, that should have been addressed.
I think Diaz was burned out last year like most of the bullpen, him especially since he had to pitch two innings several times. How that carries over this tear, I am not sure, unless there is something physical going on. How many bullpen games have they had this year because of the hole in the rotation that was not addressed?
It’s the coaching staff, not the talent at hand. As long as reds refuse to acknowledge their management team can’t get the job done – they’ll remain at the bottom of NL central
It is a lot more, down to conditioning, medical staff, etc. When you are cheap, that’s what you get.
The altar worshippers can’t get in their head that scouting/player development and putting together a roster that can withstand bumps on the road are two different things. The Reds relied on too many ifs.
The Braves have had injuries and they are still doing well. But they have competent leadership.
If they fire Bell and the HC and 3rd base coach. I’m fine with that. Bell is weirdly stubborn when it comes to sticking to players that are not producing in situations. Behind closed doors they might be leaning on these guys harder than it appears.
Boone does the same thing with the Yankees. Despised by the majority of the fan base. So is the Braves manager.
The Braves are barely 500 since May 1st. They are Not doing well. Injuries do catch up to you.
The Braves have more experienced players no doubt. But injuries are derailing them. They just got off to a great start.
The Yankees I don’t think are playing close to 500 for over a month with their injuries catching up.
It’s basically Soto and Judge and that is it.
No one is alter worshipping. They just don’t espouse the sabe cheap this and haven’t won since that. Are the Yankees. Braves or Dodgers cheap? Have they not been hit with tons of injuries?
The Dodgers are the ones not fully being affected by it. Their analytics department is the best. Yankees are great too especially at turning cast offs into bullpen gold.
The Reds need a stronger analytics dept. the majority of injuries they’ve had would not have mattered who the medical staff is to prevent it.
It is sad to see what has happened to a once model franchise.
This offseason, this organization will have to decide if they are serious about actually winning or will keep stringing people along until they start breaking up this group in a couple of years.
Small markets have a small window with a good group. You either go all out and exploit it or do what this team has done for three decades now and urinate on their loyal fanbase, those who have not already abandoned them.
This team has the longest postseason drought for a reason.
Sam Moll is pretty intriguing for the Orioles after taking a good look at him, plus I already wanted Martinez.
McDermott for both?
The Reds starting rotation is pretty solid with Greene, Lodolo and Abbott. Plus, they have Rhett Lowder and Chase Burns on the way as early as 2025. What they need is a middle of the line up bat, who bats right handed and can play multiple outfield positions. Who is also young enough to fit into their competitive window.
The Mets could definitely use Nick Martinez. He’s a good candidate when and if the Mets use a 6 man rotation and he can be part of the bridge to get to Edwin Diaz.
Getting rid of Martinez and moll
Is wrong, as soon as u lose them you’ll be looking for players like them, injuries and a fantasy of all the young players having great seasons was just that. Put this one in the books, the management always says next yr,
You’re right it has been quietly