As the offseason’s free agent market has developed and with Spring Training looming just over the horizon next month, a report from Ken Rosenthal and Will Sammon of The Athletic this evening suggests that some of the major free agents still available are weighing the possibility of turning towards short-term deals with high average annual values, as the so-called “Boras Four” of Blake Snell, Cody Bellinger, Matt Chapman, and Jordan Montgomery did last winter after not finding the long-term pacts they were hoping for in free agency.
Per Rosenthal and Sammon, outfielder Anthony Santander and right-hander Jack Flaherty are both now open to considering that sort of deal. Sammon also confirmed previous reports that indicated the camp of first baseman Pete Alonso had made an three-year offer to the Mets that includes multiple opt-outs, though it remains unclear if he’s open to similar short-term offers from other clubs at this point.
It’s a notable update to the market of all three players. Both Santander and Flaherty were reportedly looking for five-year deals that could have reached into the range of nine figures. Santander in particular reportedly has a contract offer on the table from the Blue Jays as of last week, though given the fact that he’s now open to exploring short-term deals it seems as though that offer may not have been one the switch-hitter was interested in accepting. It’s easy to imagine the possibility of getting a high-end free agent on a short-term deal opens up the market for these players, or perhaps convincing teams already connected to the players to become more serious about their pursuits.
As one example, Flaherty has previously been connected to the Cubs but there’s been some suggestion that Chicago (who signed Bellinger to a short-term, opt-out heavy deal just last winter) has reservations regarding the right-hander’s asking price. The Tigers, meanwhile, have been connected to both Flaherty and Santander but have remained opportunistic in free agency, locking down one-year deals with Gleyber Torres and Alex Cobb to improve their roster without making long-term commitments. Either of these clubs could theoretically be enticed to step up their efforts if their target is now open to considering a short-term deal.
While shorter-term deals can be attractive to teams as a way to mitigate risk associated with a particular free agent, they can still come with complications. While the deals Snell and Chapman signed in San Francisco last winter were clear successes for both sides, with Snell dominating down the stretch in a Giants uniform before signing a lucrative deal in L.A. back in November while Chapman had a resurgent season and extended with the club long-term, not all deals of this variety work out quite so well. Montgomery’s deal with Arizona quickly turned out to be a disaster as the left-hander endured the worst season of his career, got demoted to the bullpen, and has been shopped as a potential salary dump by the Diamondbacks this winter. Bellinger, meanwhile, posted a solid but unspectacular season in Chicago that led the Cubs to dump his salary in a trade with the Yankees last month in order to create an opening in the lineup for the addition of a more impactful bat than Kyle Tucker.
Even with those potential downsides, it’s easy to see why clubs could prefer a short-term deal rather than one that puts them on the hook for a player’s decline phase. After all, the Cubs were still able to shed the vast majority of the money owed to Bellinger in trade even after a pedestrian 2024 season, and the Diamondbacks could end up doing the same even after Montgomery’s disastrous campaign. Swinging those deals would be far more difficult if either player were on lengthy deals with larger overall guarantees, even if the AAV of those deals would likely be lower.
For the players, this sort of approach comes with both pros and cons. There is of course risk involved that injury or poor performance leads to them hitting the market with less value than they had in their initial trip through free agency. In the case of Flaherty, who is currently unencumbered by a Qualifying Offer, taking a short-term deal comes with a bit of extra risk given that even a wildly successful season could end up not leading to the sort of lucrative long-term deal he’s hoping for given the fact that he could be tagged with a QO in a future offseason. For a player already tagged with a QO like Santander, however, signing a short-term deal and hitting free agency after another strong season could provide an even larger boost to his value by allowing him to re-enter free agency unencumbered in the future.
While a willingness to consider short-term, high-AAV offers should open the market up for these players to an extent, that shouldn’t be taken to mean that a massive shakeup is guaranteed. Those high annual salaries figure to be an obstacle for clubs in or on the cusp of luxury tax territory as well as those dealing with budget crunches. As one example, Rosenthal and Sammon suggest that Alonso could look to seek a deal that offers an average annual value of $31.1MM in order to land the AAV record for first basemen. While that appears to be speculative on the part of the pair and they go on to suggest deferred money that would lower the net present value to be involved, even an AAV in the $25MM to $30MM range is the sort of figure that the majority of small-market clubs and even big spenders deep into luxury tax territory could be even less willing to stomach than a somewhat longer-term deal with a lower annual salary.
Mets should take petes offer
Then sign vladdy 2026
Vlad is likely not to age well. Whomever inks him long term better win it all in the near term. That said, I’d love him next year on a high AAV shorter deal (not happening as multiple teams will still bid him up).
Why is he likely to not age well?
Body type, but he lost a lot last year and had a great season.
Gave up grandma’s cooking. All the big Dominican dudes used to chow down on her cooking, Even the opposing team players got fed! Legendary in MLB circles. No joke.
Why is he likely to not age well?
===================
Fat.
body type?
babe ruth was nothing but a fat man with little girl legs and he played 22 years & hit 714 home runs
I remember when (uneducated) baseball fans used to say that about David Ortiz.
That’s a common misconception sure, but how fat he was has been greatly exaggerated.
@brady – just stop. Vlad’s out there raking and banking. What are you doing? No need for comments like these. Just enjoy the game.
Papi was never one of the highest payed players in the league or locked into a long term deal. Vlad is about to get PAID
Ruth actually wasn’t fat. Common misconception. He definitely gained weight in his later years, but he wasn’t big when he played.
To be fair, what would you pay Vladdy if you thought his career line would look like this:
SUMMARY
Career
WAR
55.3
AB
8640
H
2472
HR
541
BA
.286
R
1419
RBI
1768
SB
17
OBP
.380
SLG
.552
OPS
.931
OPS+
141
Those were PAPI’S numbers when he retired in 2016…so, I ask again…would he get a long term contract and PAID ? Ortiz played in a different era, with different economics.
@jcoltrane. Because..that’s just what you’re supposed to say. =D
That is a myth. Was actually in great shape most of his career.
Babe Ruth was trim, and fit early in his career. But by the end of his playing career, he was noticably overweight.
Jays_Jen
No need for comments like these.
====================
Why not? Someone suggested he would not age well, someone asked why not, and my reply was that he was fat. Fat players generally don’t age as well, same as in real life.
johncoltrane
body type?
babe ruth was nothing but a fat man
=========================
So there was a guy that was a little fat, late in his career, 100 years ago? And so we can therefore assume players can be fat without repercussions?
Vlads numbers won’t be that good though. He’s been pretty i consistent year over year.
Fat or not fat-Ruth could play for my team. Arguably, the greatest who ever lived. Revolutionized the game and saved it after the 1919 World Series.
He wasn’t fat, true, but he was a legendary smoker and drinker. He was basically soaked in alcohol when he was playing.
MAC, Vladdy ain’t Papi. You can throw those numbers out of the window. There has never been anyone I hated to see come up to bat with the game on the line anymore than Ortiz. Vladdy, not so much. Vlad is going to get paid for sure but he ain’t a pimple on Papi’s butt.
Is that a risk you’d take with $400m? Most uneducated fans know that’s a huge risk for a guy with weight issues.
He was a great athlete early in his career. He didn’t become a blimp until the early 1930s (when there was more film of his play). He also was a unicorn. He changed the way the game was played. Had the plate discipline and absolute power of no one else (until Gehrig came along). No one tried to hit HR routinely before him. The goal was to make contact and put together extended innings. He had great contact skills and also tried to elevate the ball.
Babe Ruth was born in the high 90s. Not facing pitchers throwing in the high 90s.
Papi always reminded me of Willie Stargell. Willie was actually not the large early on but put on weight during his career. Vlad’s BMI is over 30. That means he’s carrying some amount of unnecessary weight for playing a non contact sport. Unnecessary weight makes certain parts of your body do more work than they should have to. This creates a higher chance of injury while not contributing to a higher chance of success. It all becomes about work ethic as an athlete wishing to have a long and productive career.
@ Already
This pic is from Nov. 2020.
But he took steroids.
The juice helped big papi stay young
The loose jerseys made him look way bigger then he was.
Also he had them baby cheeks which also made him look fatter then he was
Not would he play that Many years.
He has a chance at the counting stats as he’s way way ahead of Papi as both entered there age 26 season
Vlad would only be the third wheel on the Mets, Soto and Lindor are the top dogs!
A lot of the time when the big fat Fatty’s lose weight they actually get worse.
The fat layer was just camouflage for the giant ripped roid muscles underneath. He was like the Macho Man Randy Savage but wearing a sleeping bag all the time.
@trillinionaire
I heard once babe stayed out all nite drinking & smoking cigars, showed up to gm next morning & hit 3 hrs
@Phyguy, VonPurpleHays
Not by today’s standards, but by the standards of thr 1920s he absolutely was
I love John Kruk, but his comment “I am not an athlete, I am a baseball player”, while obviously funny, helps to retain the image that it should be okay to not be in tip-top shape in baseball.
If you are getting paid millions to play at an elite level, and this is your job…your only job…then a part of your job is to be fit. Body shapes are all different, of course, so there has to be some variance and consideration, but playing weight IS a part of fitness for athletes and no amount of nonsense to the contrary can alter that fact.
I know that the mlbpa forbids weight clauses in contracts, but if I were an owner or POBO / GM I would not be signing out of shape ballplayers to any long term deals.
@inkstainedscribe, one additional physical attribute of Babe Ruth was his eyesight. I have read reports that his eyesight was better than 20/20, it was reported that he could see detail at twenty feet that people with 20/20 eyesight only saw at ten feet. Superior eyesight greatly helps with hitting. In the same piece I read years ago, I believe the author also attributed George Brett with better than 20/20 eyesight.
@komark, comparing players from very different eras is very difficult.
We don’t know how fast pitchers threw back then. In 1917, Walter Johnson, visiting a munitions lab, threw a 91 mph fastball. However, he was wearing street clothes, had not warmed up, and throwing on the flat ground, no mound. Further, today’s pitch speed is measured coming out of the hand. Due to the laws of physics, the speed of a pitch declines significantly as it travels from the hand to the plate. 9-10 % on average. Johnson’s pitch was measured as it crossed the plate. (The contraption used to measure the speed was a two sets of wires, one located at the front of the plate, the other at the back.). Was Johnson throwing at least 100 mph on flat ground in street clothes?
One additional consideration in comparing players is the nature of the baseball itself. Today’s hitters benefit from getting to hit pristine baseballs. Pitched ball gets hit, it gets replaced. Pitched ball gets dirty, it gets replaced. Pristine balls are easier to see and go farther when hit and provide more hard contact when hit, not to mention are actually really round. Babe Ruth, like everyone in his era, got to hit baseballs that degenerated as the game went on.
The game has changed in significant ways over the years and not just in player physical attributes.
And different “supplements”
Carrying extra weight puts extra stress on your joints, on your knees effects your agility which is important to have any decent range.
Some may view it as an issue with discipline – taking care of your body and less “peak” years
The same could be said if a player gets a reputation for drinking or smoking a lot. I’m sure some teams notice things like that.
Every situation is unique
This is a fat thing to say.
And here I thought that I was just trying to give the real skinny instead…
Blind squirrel eventually finds a nut…
Totally different eras
Nowadays, players just stay out all night until they’re spotted at a local casino just to get DFA’d the following morning
Ortiz extended his productivity by using PEDs. Vlad is in a different era and testing is legit now. I think Vlad will age like Miggy and fall off a cliff, but not have nearly the same peak.
ortiz used steroids
ortiz used peds ,
Yeah, but those Stolen Base numbers POP off the page!
Haha.
I’m curious as to your reasoning for saying that. His father was a very durable player. He has spent next to no time on the disabled list over the last 5 years and plays through injuries that never seem to keep him out for more than a day or two. While his “physique” does lend towards the heavier side, this is a guy who has won a gold glove at first base and can do the splits right to the carpet to catch a ball. Do you know something the rest of us don’t?
No one’s spent time on the disabled list over the last five years, c’mon man it’s been half a decade time to quit pouting and call it the IL.
I don’t know if he will age well, but his body type has zero to do with it.. Injuries might but that’s a risk every player faces regardless of body type or fitness. Judge is in great shape and has missed significant time in a couple of seasons because of injuries. And then there’s also lesser injuries that don’t keep a player out long in the short term but overtime catch up to a player. But if you ,mean that the numbers begin to decline faster than other players, maybe. In Vladdy’s case, the knock in Toronto has been about his inconsistency.He had a great 2021, hit 48 with 100+ rbi and hit 311 with a great slash. But then hit 32/97 and then 26/96 and 264 and 274. and his slash line numbers went down dramatically, then went up just as drastically in 2023. His hr total did not however. In six years he has 160. That doesn’t mean he wont hit a ton from now, Ortiz had less than 60 through age 26, but then he hit 30+ five years in a row including 41, 47, and 54., through age 31. Then in nine seasons ages 32 through 40 he hit 30+ five times plus two at 28 and 29, and two at 23. From 38-40 he hit 35, 37, 38.He hit 300+ 7 times, 8 if you count his first year when he had like 50 at bats. That shows a great deal of consistency., which is what it takes to crack 500+ Vlad has two 300_ years but the other four he hit 262, 264, 272 and 274 and his ops was sub 800 3 times and slg sub 480 four times. There is no question that he can mash but objectively the inconsistency is there. If he doesnt resign with Toronto before 2025, he needs to put up numbers closer to 21 power wise and 21 and 24 avg wise.If he has another 22 or 23, can you justify450-500+ and like 15 years at age 27? So in that sense, a deal like that would be a massive overpay. But given salaries today, he will probably get it.no matter what.
@nahnvrmnd (great screen name!)
You make some excellent points about Vladdy’s inconsistencies. His 2024 season started out just awful (as did many of the Jays’ players’…), but then he went on a torrid stretch, leaving him with a fantastic line. There’s a perfect example of this inconsistency dichotomy. This is likely why he wasn’t extended earlier, and reports of his “asking price” have always been incredibly high. But I believe the front office missed their window and could have signed him for way less than what he now wants. It’s hard to say which seasons were actual outliers – the really good ones, or the not so good ones? His underlying metrics have always been great. He’s also been a somewhat inconsistent fielder, despite winning a Gold Glove and his crazy acrobatics at 1st.
He’s going to get paid, whether it’s from the Jays or elsewhere, but is he really worth $450mm+? He’s going to make just under $30mm in 2025. But he’s the “face of the franchise”, the fans love him, he said over and over that he wants to stay in TO, and he fills seats. Will he be an overpaid DH someday? Almost certainly. But we have to remember he came up as a 19 year-old and he’s still just 25. Shatkins need to sign him, IMO. It’s a good risk.
Prince Fielder ring a bell? Pablo Sandoval?
Nice comment rondon.
Both Fielder and Sandoval are the prime examples of Big Men whose bodies don’t age well in baseball. Therefore, the reluctance to go too long when decline is up ahead ( if it hasn’t already started for Alonso) in years 4, 5 or 6.
David Ortiz did pretty good ? A 10 year deal would be fine for him anything over and you’re probably asking for trouble.
Vladdy is coming to the Sox next offseason, if not sooner, and the Sox will pay the freight, so let’s not start taking the veneer off now.
If Toronto was smart, they’d make a deal with Breslow now, when they’d get more. Casas, Campbell and Arias should more than get the deal done. If Toronto ends up letting Vladdy walk next offseason for a draft pick, they have to be aware that to this point they have drafted a pretty bad farm system. Much better to get into the Sox farm now.
Why would the Sox give up Campbell, Casas, and Arias for 1 year of Vlad? That’s an extreme overpay for a player making almost 30MM. Also there is no guarantee he resigns with RS, Yankees and Mets at very least will be in the market for a 1b next year so this whole comment makes absolutely no sense.
It’s the wild inconsistency that makes committing to V Jr on a long deal a real gamble:
2, 6, 4, 2, 6 bWAR in his five full seasons to date.
That performance isn’t close to being worth the $400m he’s looking for.
He puts up 6 WAR in 2025, it’s a different story. He puts up 2 WAR in 2025 and why would you go near even $300m?
In the latter case that’s a 27 year old in his first FA year, whose performance is completely unpredictable. He already got fat more than once, and struggles to keep weight off—and that’s while he’s had a few hundred million motivations to stay fit, but didn’t. Sign him to a 10-year deal and you want to trust he’ll retain 100% of his motivation, particularly after a third 2-win season?
No wonder the Jays are holding the line so far.
Don’t worry Padres fans, neither will sign in San Diego.
So we can stay below the CBT!
Which to me, is the most important factor.
Let’s see how far below the CBT we can go and win the offseason fiscal responsibility award for the most prudent spender.
Lol towin-at-it-again smdh
Adorable little gwynning following up every post I make like a puppy dog following his owner.
A true “Budget Warrior” battling for the bottom line beholden to who, I don’t know.
Quick to take up defense at a moments notice, even on a Saturday.
@gwynning always glad to throw you a bone
Spare us the same boring woe-is-me posts, dog.
And yet every post you feel the need to respond haha
You’re on every post with the same sob story bro bro, not me! Lol have another one, towin, but don’t drive anywhere!!
Padres hasn’t spent a dime. Cheers compadre 😉
The roster is almost full. 😉
Would you rather sign everybody and DFA quality guys like the Dodgers and Giants have done the past couple days?!?! They’re “overspending” beyond their 40 Man! That’s nuts, bro… but they can obviously afford to eat money at this stage. Cheers amigo
Rather have my team overspend and win than underfunded and lose.
Ask any Pirates fan about underfunding a team.
Yes I’d rather spend on a roster the way the the Dodgers have.
They won a WS last year so they must have been doing something right.
The “roster being full” just to be full doesn’t mean a fourth of the roster isn’t necessarily MLB worthy.
You’ve been spoiled. Nobody outside of possibly SF and the NY two can literally burn truckloads of money like the Dodgers. Comparing the Pads situation to “either spend like the Dodgers do or end up as the Bucs” is absolutely ridiculous, but then again, you’ve been spoiled. Come back to Earth, towin! Aloha
Lower the bar, conditioning fans to expect less.
There isn’t a salary cap in baseball and as fans it’s pure speculation on our part one way or the other what each organization has to spend.
Back to earth? You mean back to the 2011 to 2014 Padres, back to “hope” back to penny pinching and the “feel good” “rah rah” cheering for mediocrity Padres?
No.
You spend and you win. You don’t spend and you don’t.
You can sing kumbaya/”foster community” all you want, while praising and selling a low payroll. In the end, it doesnt matter, the Padres, won’t win a WS unless they spend money.
The Padres do spend. 7th largest 2025 payroll. You’re spoiled if you think they should buy everybody to just DFA somebody else. It’s never going to happen in SD, so get used to it or become a Dodger fan. At this point, please do.
The Dodhers spent and won a WS.
If the Padres want to win a WS they ha e spend money.
Preller has been uncharacteristically not involved.
Santander should sign with the Rockies. Book it.
Weight comparisons to papi are very valid. Career/salary comparisons are not. Vladdy has been top prospect his whole life, son of HOFer, and has alredy put up MVP #s and is headed for FA and he’s still 25. At that age papi had only 38 career hrs and was cut by twins the following yr. He made his first all star appearance at 28. He spent the rest of his career with 1 tm. He never rly hit free agency, he just kept signing in season extensions. The last 10 yrs he earned $142.5 mil. Vladdy will make 3x that but he’ll also be a FA at a young age with alot of achievements alredy. Ortiz played til age 40. Vladdy doesnt need to be skinny like soto or run like acuna. He can DH and still smack 30 bombs every yr for a long time. Enough of “he’s fat” comments. Bartolo colon was a whale & he played til he was 50.
I think Vladdy will be productive for as long as he wants to play.
Will he be Elite like Papi as he enters his mid 30s, i don’t know.
But I can say this confidently, I believe he will reach 500 homers. Possibly flirt w 600. I think he wants to become a legend in Canada and HOFer like his Dad. He truly loves the game and plays it that way.
I know it’s a cliche, but watch come march, the reports will be out ” vladdy has come to spring training in the best shape of his life “
Absurd, friend. He’s a bad 1Bman in steep decline turning 30 who can only slug. whose SLG was .459, 3rd on his own team, barely better than the Mets’ backup IFer, and 40th overall in MLB. He’s not great at it, and he’s below average at everything else, and it’s why he was only worth 2.1 fWAR in 2024.
And that’s the guy you want to give a record AAV to, and with opt outs to ensure you’re stuck with him at $30+ million when he probably declines even more and probably sticks around to decline even further on your dime. Why? $90 million because home runs are kool?
Awesome prank, Farva
Can I get a liter of cola?
Tigers need to go get Flaherty if he’s willing to sign for 3 years or less. It’s a perfect match.
Agreed 75/3 with an opt out after Year 2 would be right.
Same deal with an opt out after year 1 is probably what Flaherty is looking for.
Opt-out after one year is what Flaherty and Santander are looking for now.
Santander definitely.
Flaherty not so sure. He can get hit with the QO next off-season and unless he has another repeat year that will effect his market. Now if he puts up two good to very good years with no injuries and say 300ip combined then a QO would have little impact on his FA.
He’ll be 2 years older. QO is always going to impact his market. Best case scenario for him was to find the deal now but it doesn’t look like he’s going to.
Yep. You’re right about that I believe.
Would be nice for the cubs to sign flahery
And a closer! Is Hoyer really going into another season without an established closer in the pen? It basically killed the Cubs last year, as they blew 17 save chances before the all-star break. Those losses do more than put up a W; when you’re winning the whole game and suddenly the opposing team gets 2 runs in the 9th and steals the victory, it breaks their spirit.
Hodge could turn into a bonafide closer if they don’t sign someone else for that role. Alozay was an accidental closer that got the job done for awhile, but Hodge has lights out stuff.
As a Cardinals fan, I agree. Cubs fans need to be frustrated with him too! haha
It appears Harris is taking a “waiting in the weeds” approach. If he gets Flaherty, Bregman, or both, he will look like a genius. If he misses, signing Cobb for $15mm will be his legacy.
Flaherty would be smart to sign with the Giants or Astros. Have great defense and big yards behind him.
Everyone still available should be open to short term contracts at this point.
Mets need to sign Santander for DH.
The Mets might also need Santander to play corner OF, given Nimmo’s feet are still bothering him.
Can they live with a Santander-Siri-Soto OF, with Nimmo doing a lot of DH’ing? They may have to, or something like it. They can’t even be sure Taylor will fully recover from the two surgeries and be ready to be the backup or co-CFer.
Both are not worth even a short-term deal. Overrated.
Yeah! They both be mopping floors at old York’s house.
Do you even watch baseball?
I think Old york is a troll and just says random stuff to see how people react..
Old York is definitely a troll. Flaherty is overrated, but Santander is definitely not.
@Poolhalljunkies
I’ve never done for that purpose. I state my opinion. Should I assume you’re a troll?
@SewaldSwansonSwoon
How am I a troll?
Again with the unqualified opinions SSS. Why is Flaherty overrated and Santander is not? Put some stats behind your argument or something. It seems like you are the troll when these are the only comments you make. Let me guess, you think Skubal is overrated too?
Lol Flaherty has 1.75 good seasons under his belt, plenty of injury, a fade in the postseason, inconsistency, and a problematic mouth.
Santander has continuously improved defensively and offensively year-over-year and is known as a clubhouse guy, while Flaherty is not.
Anyone with a brain can see the disparity.
But lemme guess… Tigers WS champs LOLOLOLOL
SI and MLB predict they will lose to the Dodgers in the WS but who knows. No one thought we would have a Texas-Arizona WS two years ago so anything can happen.
And that “anything” won’t be the Tigers in the WS LOL
Santander had an extremely low .225 BABIP in 2024. Even so, Statcast has his xBA at .228 on an actual BA of .235. That’s… weird.
That his defense got better is nice and all, but he’s still a little below average. Playable, but hardly even “good.”
He’s also so slow that if he can’t hold serve he may become unplayable out there in the next couple of years.
And for all the encomiums, he’s still only a 2-3 win OFer with just the one season better than 2.6 fWAR, and he’s turning 30.
I’d rather have him than Alonso, but it’s not as if either one, at best, is going to do more than competently fill a hole in the lineup at a non-premium position.
York. i rarely comment on your “opinions” anymore because i think you are a troll..and you can take that however you want idc..and others seem to agree
@Motor City Beach Bum
I’ve watched ever game since MLB started in the 1800s.
That’s why you are “Old” York! Cheers dude
Santander really doesnt want to go to the Jays, but thats okay its time to rebuild.
Hmm…I guess he didn’t have access to the same tax accountant that the others have.
Desperate times……
3 years/60 million with an opt out after year 1.
Frontload it as $25MM-$28MM in the first year and I think he signs it tonight.
Both of them or just Santander? I think Flaherty gets a little more $ guaranteed with an opt out shot.
I assumed DD meant Santander based on the amount… and I agree. A similar deal for Jack s/b 3Y/75MM with a $30MM+ frontload. (Both with hypothetical year 1 Opt Outs)
Jack has got to get as much as Manea right? He had the better year of the two and is younger.
If Flaherty doesn’t get 3/75 in this market something is up. Either medicals or blackballed. That guy is far better than Manaea.
There is a third explanation. He waited too long to sign. All the large markets have filled their needs. Now they have to deal with mid market and small market teams. They have to adjust their price accordingly. Can’t expect large market pay from the teams still in need.
Thats a good point, but in reality pretty much every baseball team can oay 3 years 75 million for a TOR starter.
Some just choose to cry poor like Tommy Nickels Ricketts or be cheaper like The As n Marlins owners
The A’s can afford him at that price!
Left handers are sometimes more valuable than Right handers.
Not Always. There is that.
Don’t get me wrong I have always liked Manea and would have liked for the Tigers to sign him the last few years. He had a great season too. It’s just that Flaherty’s numbers were up there with Burnes and Fried and he doesn’t seem to get enough credit for the great season he had.
Bummer, I wondered if it’s less to do with his solid ’24 but more of his current back issues/medicals. Idk anything, to be fair…
You certsinly have to wonder if that is the case. The Yankees saw something and neither Detroit nor anyone else seems to be circling back to him. The Tigers skipped some starts with him later in the year and we were all worried his back would go put near the deadline.
He’s looking for a higher AAV in a short-term deal. He’s definitely going to want to at least match what Eovaldi got (25M AAV).
Santander would excel in Cincinnati. They need a RH smasher in that lineup. Up and coming young team. And a chance to play under a future Hall of Fame manager in Tito.
Short term deal with a small overpay would push payroll to $130M+ which is realistic as it’s happened a couple of years ago. With Santander batting behind Elly would discourage teams from pitching around 44. The lineup would go from good to very good.
I’m a reds fan and the line up isn’t good. I “might be” but we’ve been burning the potential fuel now for a couple years. San would help though, eliminates Fairchild and or Benson getting everyday starts if they roll with Hinds as they should.
Could definitely see Houston sniping Santander from the rest of the market just like Hader last year.
imo, what makes a good lineup is one with no holes and a catcher who doesn’t bat 9th or a great leadoff hitter. Reds have the middle order catcher coming off a career year, they traded India bc they prefer McCain to him, and not just have the 1 hole in their lineup they can fix big time with Santander. His power is that missing link
@ Oct, They can pay him 20’mil per over 4 years and he’ll opt out latter first like castellanos. Also drives down the price for profar. Reds could really use either
I’d actually prefer taking a chance on profar but at this point I’ll take almost any attempt at improving
Cinci or Denver would be fun. What other cities are home run friendly?
@JTSmith
If they need a RH masher, Santander is not the answer. He is a much stronger LH hitter, and passable as a RH one.
Get on it reds
3 of the 4 main outfield cogs in the Orioles magical 2023 are now gone. First Hicks then Hays and now Tony Taters. And over the past 3 winning seasons, Santander was right in the middle of it all.
Agree. Get on it Reds.
Agreed. There he is Bob and Phil, the goldilocks player/contract, the exact puzzle piece you’re missing, like the universe was listening and giftwrapped him for you. A perfect fit for all parties. Now go and get him, now not later, NOW
Castellinis ain’t scratching a $20 mil aav check for nobody….
A thinly veiled cry for anyone but the Jays to step up to the plate.
Yup. Guy really didn’t want to deal with the hassle of crossing the border. It’s having to put your shoes on the conveyor belt. You would think with that much money he could afford socks without holes. Or perhaps Odor Eaters were not included in the contract.
Perhaps he was afraid of the sniffer dogs finding his stash.
Or maybe he just couldn’t live without packing heat…
Does he currently call in sick every time they play in Canada? /s
Maybe he gets the latex glove treatment every time he crosses. Could even be allergic to latex.
Allergic on his butt…
Maybe it’s just because Toronto’s team is full of prima-donna losers and their fanbase sucks
So you aren’t a proponent of the allergic to latex full body cavity search theory?
I’m just saying…
All these comments sounds like the Blue Jays would be “Unofficially” in favor of Canada being acquired as the 51st state of USA.
Just kidding I think 😉
I feel like all of Canada would need to be more than one state. Now Greenland on the other hand…
Pro teams flying into Toronto have another processing portal and aren’t treated same way as we mortals. They go from that infield processing building to their downtown hotels via bus. Easy peasy.
So customs processing isn’t a big deal. All paid in US funds and any expenses in Toronto are in much lower Canadian $$ (rent, food, ubers).
So the border is irrelevant. Better weather than many other cities, and with dome that opens the rain never comes, New facilities in Toronto and Dunedin make for a solid experience. AAA is nearby in Buffalo. Toronto is 3rd largest metro area in North America and a sports hotbed with a very wealthy owner (they own ALL the pro teams in Toronto (baseball, hockey (2 teams), NBA, MLS, CFL, etc.) and arenas, stadiums and fields. They don’t depend on outside cable income. Rabid fans (cuts both ways). Jays in dealing mode. Both players are a fit if contracts signed.
Exactly. If the option is Toronto, we’ll take a short term deal elsewhere.
Is the Alonso situation turning into Chris Davis 2.0?
Chris Davis got paid and not Alonso yet so no. Alonso is also a more athletic player than Davis ever was.
Alonso will never have a season like CD’s 2013.
Other than that, the cliff at 30 sounds about right.
It only makes sense. Kudos for having sense in a senseless world now. Their going to make millions wherever they end up. It opens the league for their services. .
AA, you up?
Offseason Losers.
Alonso, 2 years 55, Giants
Sounds about right at this point. Opt-out after 1 year? He’s got to be kicking himself for declining that huge Mets’ offer a while back. Wonder what his numbers would be at Oracle…
100%. I hope he turned it down because he really didn’t want to play in NY if he had his choice. Although it looks like he turned it down due to greed
Hey, don’t discount the stupidity necessarily involved.
The issue with both Alonso and Santander is they are so one-dimensional. When they’re not hitting homers, they’re piling up negative value in every other way. Both are liabilities in the field and on the bases. And power is the very first thing to go when physical decline begins to take its toll. I think they’re both exciting players when they are mashing, but they are both probably going to wind up being overpays for not a lot of value.
Flaherty, on the other hand, is solid and seems like a quality #2 pitcher, and a big game pitcher. Tigers should have signed him over Alex Cobb.
Exactly, the league is valuing limited players who slug less and less as time goes on.
Honestly unless you’re facing a 1-2 year competition window I wouldn’t sign Santander, maybe the Jays give him 3/60 with opt-outs or whatever and if he doesn’t perform just suck it up and pay him 20/year on a team that’s rebuilding anyways in 2026, 27.
Why do people propose the solution to limited talents in aging players is to give those players opt-outs?
That’s like saying, “your skills are limited. You’re okay for the moment but decline looks like it’s coming soon, therefore we’re offering a contract that makes it MORE likely we’ll be stuck with that decline—and at a higher AAV.”
???
Higher AAV, yes, but lower total. For example he could get 5/90 but he’s going for the 3/60 with opt outs. So yes, it’s more per year, but the whole point is you’re not locking yourself into paying somebody 5 years down the road who isn’t productive anymore, ie Javy in Detroit.
Disagree. Sanatander’s defense has improved every year and he has massive clubhouse impact.
Sewald: Preposterous. BR has Santander at dWAR -1.4 in 2024, the worst of his career. He was horrific in the outfield.
“Massive clubhouse impact” is purely subjective, and how would you know such a thing to be true, and, even if it was, what’s that worth? You can’t quantify it, so probably nothing, and teams don’t pay for it.
Lol Luke. He was not horrendous in the outfield whatsoever. Passed the eye test swimmingly, and was moving the best he ever has. Having watched his whole career, I agree with guys like Jim Palmer and Ben MacDonald that noted his improvement as well. They know more than you, as does Baltimore’s coaching staff. Preposterous nothing. Stupid comment.
Also, teams absolutely pay for clubhouse impact, over and over. And it’s easy to see by how he interacts with his teammates and others in the org.
Clearly you know nothing.
“Power is the very first thing to go,” however, is just something you pulled out of your arse.
Flaherty… “is solid”? That’s another one.
Giants should be looking into these types of deals at this point.
Teams have gotten smarter toward long term contracts for free agents once they’ve reached a certain age, while agents, especially Boras, refuse to acknowledge this change.
Think of all of the high dollar/long term contracts that aged poorly (i.e. Baez, Story, Correa, Zimmerman, Ellsbury, Pujhols, Rendon, Bryant, Cabrera, Bogarts, Trout) and no wonder teams are wary of long term commitments.
Mistakes will still be made as certain owners are willing to spend, but there are just not enough of those owners to fulfill all of these free agents.
C’mon Tigers !!
Detroit fans can’t help saying, if we sign Tony Taters the Tigers are Grrrrreat! Ahahahahaha!
That’s so cute that they’ve changed their minds in order to accommodate possible suitors!
Its right up there with the Yankees announcing they will pay down Stromans contract. Did they ever think that wouldn’t be necessary?
Nows the time for the Royals to pounce on Santander. 3/60 with an opt out.
Do you think he would want a one year opt out after moving to a pitchers park? His numbers would likely go down.
I wouldn’t mind seeing Santander on the Giants on a short-term deal. His switch hitting would help break up the righty power of Ramos, Chapman and Adames.
He won’t sign there short term. That park would hurt his chances of re entering FA next winter.
Although I think his bat is what the Giants need to actually have a chance at .500 ball next year.
Ok Angels. LFG!
There isn’t much logic in presenting the Bellinger and Montgomery deals as “downsides” of short term deals. Those are the weakest recent outcomes, but they would be that much worse if they had gotten their desired contract lengths.
If anything, the way Montgomery won’t linger long with his deal and the Cubs found a taker for Bellinger illustrates the further minimized downside of these short deals.
When compared with the 1-year ‘prove it’ deals that players like this might’ve taken in the past, it’s definitely a downside because the player option and longer term offers the player leverage and security against injury and poor performance they didn’t have previously.
These deals only make sense for the kinds of high-variance players that seem to be getting them. There is downside but I agree completely, it’s minimal, and the structure itself offers plenty of opportunity for win-win outcomes.
But they still illustrated downside. 50/50 proposition for the team.
Mets should sign both Santander and Flaherty, Santander can DH
Real negative giving a QO-encumbered player one of the short term multiple opt-out transactions is that it ups the cost by the loss of picks and international money dor . There’s a lot of value that just goes out the door on the day you sign.
And the Q.O. is functioning as intended – to suppress rising salaries. The O’s have every incentive to circle back to him.
Every incentive EXCEPT 2. Losing a Top 30 pick and finding ABs. They’ve added ONeill and he’ll get 500 or more ABs if he’s healthy. They need ABs for Kjerstad and Mayo. There’s almost no room for Santander on the roster.
Santander is lots more valuable to other teams than the Os.
But it only suppresses rising salaries for the handful of players offered one. I’d argue it increases salaries for everyone else–the players that are equivalent in credentials but don’t have the QO and the players who fill a need that the signing team has for failure to draft/develop talent. The stars always get paid.
…in the aggregrate.
Now the Reds have a solid chance to sign Santander. What better ballpark than GABP to help improve your stock for a big payday in 2026?
Castellanos got a big deal after playing there !
Yeah, because other teams won’t notice where you played your home games.
Not to mention possible post season appearances
It’s so funny that free agency stalls every year when the Dodgers, Yankees, or Mets stop spending
*Phillies. Padres.
The Reds need to be all over Santander especially if he’s willing to take a short term deal. His power is exactly what they need in the middle of the order and his HR numbers would be at least on par with what he had in Camden Yards (no idea what the name of Baltimore’s stadium is now in the boring day and age of selling the naming rights) if not go up playing half his games in Great American Ball Park.
They already should have been trying to lock him down when free agency started but more than ever now that he is willing to take the short term deal. Make it happen and get Benson and Fairchild out of the lineup.
Adding Matt McCain and Santander to this Heckyl n Jeckyl offense could really be what this team needs.
For year it was the Reds pitching that would let them down, now it’s the offense. Time to make opposing pitchers fear coming to Cincy to face the new big red machine
It’s kind of a meaningless concept without knowing what they mean by “short-term”.. If Flaherty wants a straight one-year contract, I’d give him $25M pretty quickly.
OTOH, if he wants a $75M/3 with multiple opt-outs, I’d have no interest.
He’s going to get himself a pillow for injury risk.
At least 2 @$25 per given the price of pitching. Probably looking for 3 at this point. Hard to argue him asking to match Eovaldi w/ opt outs at his age. QO possibility remains with him. Can’t see anyway he takes a straight 1/25.
I’d give him $25M * 2, but without an opt-out. I’m not opposed philosophically, but I’d want a return on my investment. Something like Cole’s option seems reasonable.
Or something like Burnes’ deal. A $10M signing bonus. Except if he doesn’t opt-out after two years, then years 3-5 would be heavily deferred. Year 6 can vest with no deferrals based upon IP and/or days not on the IL. Both sides get to hedge.
He has no QO attached and if they do give him an opt out, I believe they can offer him an opt out next winter so that’s something
I’d give him the 2/50 with an opt out. Hope he pitches well enough after year 1 and you can QO and get a pick. Costs nothing but money to bring him in.
I think short term means 3-4 year deals with a bunch of opt outs.
If Alonso wants to be a Met he will have to agree to an adhesion k.
I am likely in the minority here, but I think Santander to the Jays might actually happen. With how inept and frustrating the front office has been over pretty much their entire tenure, this is something they MUST get done. Sounds like they will need to present a new offer; but who knows? Might be better on a shorter-term deal for all involved. They need to jump on this yesterday. Trying to be positive here…but it’s SO difficult!
Jays_Jen;
That organization / team is going nowhere and all FA’s know it.
They can sign a desperate player they overpay…..as happened the other day…..Hoffman went for the guaranteed money…..if he’s doing well he has hopes he’ll be traded to a contender in-season. NBA players have been doing this for decades.
Jays_Jen…..
We have to face the facts. The Jays have dropped to #23 in the power rankings…behind the Pirates.
No one wants to play for a team that has a downward trajectory.
It’s a long season for the players as well as the fans.
Thanks Ross! (Sarcasm for those that can’t see it)
@bestone and @Samuel
Yep, overpay, overpay, and more overpay. It’s the only way they’ll get FAs to sign…with hopes of being traded to contenders. It’s the only way they get Santander. Maybe they will pick up another decent reliever.
I absolutely cannot believe Atkins (and Shapiro) are still employed. It’s mind-boggling. Rogers has zero clue what he is doing. Do you think if Vladdy (and to a lesser extent, Bo) was already signed, the chances for luring FAs would be higher, even given the debacle that was 2024?
I doubt it. Wealthy American athletes, even moreso than Americans generally if that’s possible, are pretty much not interested if the topic is moving to Canada.
I bet Gausman and Berrios would like a do-over. Springer no one else would touch so he stays put. But if Toronto had overpaid for Vladdy, which they would need to do, I don’t see that changing anything.
I’ve noticed people in Toronto like to blame the club owner and Front Office for everything, but geography, i.e. the fact that Canada is not even in the US, is a little out of their control.
Best Screenname Ever…
Probably due to the moose.
I’m sure the beavers probably aren’t much help either.
Rumour is many Americans shy away from the beavers.
Just sayin’
Jays_Jen….
I’m not sure if having those two guys under contract would do anything. The rest of the team is lacking offence. If Santander signed here, there would be huge expectations on him to perform at a level he may not be at. Last year (his last year in his contract) may have been unique. I’m sure he wouldn’t hesitate to play with the dodgers, where he would be 5 or 6 in batting.
At 23 in the power rankings…it could be a long summer.
Kinda begs to question whether the rumor from Hector Gomez were true that the Jays offered 4/82.
He’s silly to not have taken that if that’s a true story if it included opt outs.
He could have another nice season hitting in that ballpark w Vladdy Daddy as protection.
If he can do that along w either cut down his Ks or up his walks a tad, he will be more attractive next winter
If there’s a player opt-out after 1 year, I can see this playing out as a Semien-esque situation (although Semien was on a 1-year prove-it deal). Protection for the player; and if he does well, he’ll have himself a payday in ‘26. (Plus, historically he has raked at Rogers Centre.)
For Santander? Or Flaherty?
Not Bregman?
Angels blowing the 46th pick to sign Santander on line one…
Hopefully the Tigers can reunite with Flaherty.If he’s open to short term contract it should make him even more attractive to Detroit’s front office i would think.
If they can sign Flaherty and Bregman I think thst makes them a strong contender to represent the AL in the Workd Series this year. I just hope they don’t overdo it on Bregman in terms of years.
LOL! Tigers WS because of Bregman & Flaherty? MCBB is always delusional. Tigers got lucky last year and played over their heads. They are not a good team.
Who’s your team troll? You never seem to say in your posts. You also never back up a thing you say, just make bold comments with no supporting arguments.
I have read two articles that predict them going to the WS this year. They have a good young core with more on the way. Who in the AL is so good that they have no question marks? The Tigers are a young team that just made the playoffs and has lots of room to improve internally. Add a couple pieces to fill the #2 Starter and 3B holes and their team can compete with anyone in the AL.
LOL! Are those articles from Sports Illustrated? Bleacher Report? What a joke. Prediction articles lol. Such a fanboy.
Read the Chat transcript going on right now. I tend to listen to people who can form a cogent argument instead of trolls who just make bald face assertions and provuse no rationale to support their opinion.
LOL! Time will prove me right, but keep deluding yourself.
Yes the old “time will prove me right” comeback. How could anyone argue with that logic!
Well, time is all that will tell – or rather, all that will prove what is obvious, which is that the Tigers are not a WS-caliber team 🙂
The question is why are you such a Tigers hater,As far as luck goes.Luck is always a part of winning for any team not just Detroit.I’m not sure what to expect from the 2025 Tigers i’m not a cocky fan.Tigers definetly needed help from Twins totally collapsing.But you can’t totally take away what they did.i’m not as confident as Motor City is.Laughing at someone else is just loser behavior.Show us your better than that.
Don’t base your thinking on what any article says.My confidence comes from what i see on field not what some so called expert says.None of us have a clue what’s gonna happen.i don’t bother even reading the speculation parts of this website.
This part i agree with you.Predictions are nonesense.Not sure why some fans read them like religion.
I base my thinking on everything I can find on the topic. What a beat writer who reports on the Tigers says is of more interest to me than someone who doesn’t but its not gospel. Like you say what they do on the field is the most important piece and the second half improvements and at of several young players like Meadows, Carp, Greene and Sweeney was a very positive sign, especially when you combine it with the other youngsters who got experience down the stretch and the others youngsters coming hrough the minors behind them.
I’m just a realist, and MCBB is naive and annoying. The Tigers had a surprise hot streak, but they are not built like a Championship contender. Not last year, not this year.
I see MCBB’s drivel too often to not laugh. Reminds me of a pathetic roommate I had in college, drooling over the Tigers come hell or high water.
That’s not nice calling your ex roomate pathethic doesn’t make you look very nice person saying stuff like that..i see a lot of annoying people online but i don’t think MCBB is.I’m more interested in if someone is a kind person,Lot of annoying people with a need to act like their smarter than everyone else.If he wants to be Naive how does that hurt you.Try being nicer i bet you’ll like it.just my 2 cents.
I know, I know. Boras is going to push Skubal to hit FA and get max $$. Absolutely the likeliest of scenarios.
But if the Tigers signed Bregman (along w/Torres and others), could it help encourage Skubal enough to sign an extension? Because in that case, overpaying for Bregman suddenly becomes easier to digest.
Maybe Skubs is irritated w/Tork’s struggles at 1B to the point he wants an upgrade at 1B? Skubal worked hard battling through TJ rehab in order to get drafted in the 9th round, and here’s a 1-1 drafted teammate who seemingly refuses to make adjustments. That would irritate me.
Unlikely, sure. But who knows?
I don’t see Tork getting many at bats this year if he isn’t traded.
If Tork hits he will get ABs the Tigers are in serious need of RH power.
I agree but he would need to show a lot of improvement to even make the team let alone grab the bulk of the DH at bats and/or some tine at 1B. Articles say he will be battling Malloy, Perez and Jung for at bats and they are all more versatile. If he reverts to his 30 HR 90 RBI days that would be great but it doesn’t seem like the Tigers are betting on that happening.
Who knows what’s in Skubal’s mind none of us are mind readers.All i know is Tigers better take advantage and improve their roster while they still have him in case he walks.i think if the Tigers open up the pocket book and pay him what he’s worth they have just as much chance to resign him as anyone else.it’s always scary though to lock up pitchers to long contracts as injury prone as today’s pitchers.Maybe Jackson Jobe will be just as good as Skubal we’ll have a replacement if we can’t resign him.
If they don’t plan on playing him much i’d just trade him.i’m not giving up on him yet.As far as Bregman goes i don’t think he’s worth money he wants and i think he’s a declining player and benefited from short porch in Houston.i’d be interested if it was for a yea but if Boston or someone else wants him long term they can have him.
I’d rather have Kim if his shoulder is healthy as hes more versatile. He’d fit in nicely at the top of the order and could move to SS if they finally turf Baez. Jung could get some at bats at 3B and move to 2B next year when Torres leaves (or maybe Lee comes up too). Lots of good young guys on the way up.
Trade Tork and bring back another bat who hasn’t lived up to expectations.
Sure any team that has a good chance to at least grab a WC could get hot and make it to the WS. Tarik is a true Ace who can shutdown many high powered offenses. Seriously no sarcasm intended
Do people think Bregman’s bat will play in Detroit? That park will do him no favors, and fans expect he will come in and be the marquee offensive piece. He can really only do that in a park friendly to RH hitters.
I read somewhere that last year, when adjusted for Comerica Park, he would have had around 20 HRs. Nothing to sneeze At when you factor in the defense and OBP.
Here we go again. Just like last offseason. Alonso Bregman Flaherty & Santander find themselves having to make decisions they were not expecting. Neither is going to get the $$$ & years they (player & agent) felt they deserved.
For whatever reason the FA market has left them & reached a point where each are going to have to make a decision as to where & what they’re willing to accept. Long term contracts aren’t happening & their only hopes now are short term deals with opt-outs.
All the more reason for a FA signing deadline (possibly 01/01). FAs signing early this offseason has gotten many players big paydays & contracts
Players don’t want a deadline. The regular season (and possible playoffs) schedule is the longest grind in pro sports. Players then blowoff a month to unwind and recover and spend time with family. Execs take their feet off the pedal until the GM meetings. There hasn’t been much of a push for a signing deadline except for fans.
i’m happy nobody wants to sign players to long term contracts.Except for the elite players lot of these second or tier platers you never know what kind of seasons they’ll have so i like the one two year contracts.
I’m all for short-term deals with higher AAV as long as there are no opt-outs, especially to players that received QO’s as losing draft picks for one year of a player isn’t worth it
I dunno- neither of these are guys who could realistically get massive deals anyway, so I don’t think any team will be, effectively tricked into “front loading” a short term deal for them, where they would be like “yo, we were gonna give you 5 years/$100 million or 5 years/$150M, but since we clearly aren’t actually gonna give you that, what if we gave you 3 years/$100M with opt outs or 2 years/$75M with opt outs?” etc.
Nah, they may have to settle for like 1 year/$20M (either one) or 5 years/$78M to 5 years/$90M (Santander) or whatever because ultimately they are second tier players and honestly? Beware guys with low batting averages who hit a career best number of home runs in their walk year going into his 30’s.
Basically same thing goes for Flaherty, but even moreso. He’s a guy that teams seem to toy with signing long term to big money and then come to their senses- and he had a *very* up and down season.
That said, he is a pitcher, so they do tend to get a premium on any general level he’s on, so if some really truly awful pitchers are getting $13M or $19M or whatever, he could absolutely argue for $20M+ under any circumstance… I think I read contract guesstimations for him ranging from 1 year/$15M to 5 years/$125M, so maybe something in between with opt outs, like 1 year/$20M w/ a mutual option on 2 years/$50M and a $5M buyout.
Manea got 3/75 and Flaherty is the better pitcher so he’s at least worth that unless his arm is mush. If Detroit signs him then I’d say rumors of him being an injury risk are overstated because they would know better than anyone about his medicals. He didn’t pitch great in the playoffs is what everyone points to. He pitched almost 200 innings this year and was one of the best pitchers in baseball…check his stats. Skubal had one bad inning in the playoffs which doesn’t make him a bad pitcher so why is Flaherty?
Independent of all the other reservations a team has for signing a player – Sometimes players get reputations without the social media emotional comments.
Good news is not every teams management thinks the same
Flaherty has performed like a #2,#3,#4. He is not alone. I’m sure someone will give him a 3 year contract soon.
The “better” pitcher despite having had one good year since 2019? 4.16 FIP after he went to the Dodgers, and all by himself Flaherty nearly knocked LAD out of the postseason.
2020 to date:
Flaherty 4.2 bWAR
Manaea 6.1 bWAR
6 years ago, sure, but no projection system in the world weights that with even 0.1% the value of his last 3 or 4 seasons.
Flaherty was the better player last year. I agree with you based on the stats you quote Manea was better from 2020 on but I was talking about last year. I don’t have a bad word to say about Manea. Great pitcher.
Manea was a really good pitcher not any more,He’s been horrible most of games for Tigers.it started 1st game he pitched for us.
Sean Manea with the Mets not Kenta Maeda who sucks who i believe you are referring to! Cheers dude
Yes your correct i was thinking about wrong guy 🙂
I don’t remember any team offering Flaherty a long term contract.,i don’t think he had up and down season he was pretty good the whole year last year,Every pitcher’s gonna have a few bad ones.I’m leery to sign any pitcher longterm unless they are really elite.And none of them are left.i wanted Blake Snell.That would of showed me Tigers were serious if they tried to get him. But they seem too cheap for that.
Snell spent more time on the injured list than Flaherty didn’t he? When he pitches he’s excellent, as he was in the 2nd half.
Santander is not right for Detroit. The ball park plays big and his power numbers would be down
Baltimore, other than a qualified offer didn’t try very hard to resign him either. Flaherty would be welcomed back to Detroit. 25 m for one year and trade him again at the deadline
Detroit isn’t looking to trade a yone at the deadline. They are looking to compete.
The money is the main thing for Santander , Bregman, and Alonzo, they are all 30+
I agree with you about Santander. I think he blocks young guys and the OF/DH is not an area of need.
i’d love another 1 year contract for Flaherty but 2nd part of what you said trading him deadline means they sucked again at trade deadline.you don’t get much at deadline for these players.Trey Sweeney who they got for Flaherty has long way to go to to prove he’s a really good player.If thet hadn’t traded Flaherty at deadline they might of gotten past Guardians in playoffs,
Sweeney is at least good defensively. There’s some positives with him given that he almost put up 1 WAR in just 36 games with a paltry 81 OPS+.
i personally don’t get exited till a player shows me what he does for a long stretch.36 games isn’t enough of a sample size,Tigers have lots of young players.Young players can look great then league finds out their weakness.Torkelson prime example.,i wish we had more proven vets sprinkled in.You look at our offensive stats last year they were dismal.i’m still worried it might be same in 2025.odds of having another miracle comeback isn’t likely.plus i don’t think AJ Hinch can make the opener thing work over a full season.lots of big question marks.
Does it really make sense to lose a draft pick or two for a short term deal? Like giving Santander a 1 year contract then losing him seems like folly, I’d rather just have him around for 3+1 vesting or something
It just depends how the contract is viewed. For a 3/4 rounder – yeah absolutely sign him knowing he’s only going to be there one season bc by then all the elite talent is gone and you save the bonus money too
No, it doesn’t make sense to a GM or owner to sign a QO shorty. None at all.
I’m thinking it takes at least a 3-year contract for some teams to give up what is potentially, in 2-3 years, a starting player on a minimum contract.
It’s a lot to give up if you traditionally draft well.
A QO pick is worth 7-8m, on average. No one treats it as other than something like a 10% shot at “a starting player on a minimum contract.”
For a baseball site, how is it no one knows the monetary value of a QO pick?
That sound they hear dimming is the music and there are less and less chairs…of course they are going to be interested in a short-term deal and try it again next year or year after. All of these guys have over played their hand and what they think their value is versus what teams think it is are obviously two different things…Alonso turns down an offer from the Mets and finds out he has no market so he makes the Mets an offer and they are just waiting him out and he will sign for less than he turned down…Santander and Flaherty will sign for much less and shorter than what they wanted or what their agents told them blowing smoke up their backside. Profar is a 4-6 million a year player at best and actually will end up signing for maybe 2 years and 10 million. All these guys are still in their productive playing years and they want to play and cash in before they can’t play and their earning power drops off the table.
Flaherty…3 years and 59.5 million (21-20-18.5) with an op out after 2025 (3.5 million) and after 2026 (3 million)
Santander… 3 years and 64 million (22-21.5-20.5) with an opt out after 2025 (3 million) and 2026 (2 million)
The feeding frenzy by owners is over and some team is going to get a deal and some players are going to be scrambling to find a job and will be lowering their sights quite a bit…Bregman, Flaherty, Santander, Profar and just guys are just hoping for another season…Peralta, Solano, E Diaz, Rizzo, France and the list goes on and on and some of these guys are just done…game, set, match.
Here are the remaining free agents and who has already signed…I see a lot of minor league deals with invites to spring training.
mlb.com/news/2024-25-mlb-free-agents-by-position?m…
Profar at 2/10m after a 3.6 bWAR season? And people upvoted this?
braves should be all over both. especially short term deals
If the owners were smart… and that’s a big if… almost everyone they’d sign would be no more than a few years. 2-3 year contracts should be the norm. Obviously they’ll be guys who get more.
Every few years there’s guys coming in who can replace people. At least league / market wide. Not necessarily organizationally.
Eating $$$ on a short term contract is manageable. Not so on a ten year contract.
To BP
Teams can do some of this but you know there will be accusations of ownership collusion which may be partially true.
Both sides are going to have axes to grind in the next CBA contract which I believe starts at the End of the 2026 season. I wouldn’t be surprised if the 2027 season is delayed and there are calls for NEW leadership/voices to reach an agreement. Some rules may benefit younger players over veterans and vice versa. New NIL rules could be a big source of revenue.
To earn lifetime $ young player with early good results have to balance signing an extension in the 1st or 2nd year. The players within the top 80th percentile without major injury baggage can probably be more patient. Some rare players who take care of their body can probably have a long career signing short term contracts. They may have to flexible and be willing to play for many teams (including Japan/Korea/Mexico/Independent Leagues) Kind of an outlier/rarity or as they say today a unicorn.
Players who hit less HRs will continue to get devalued even if their runs scored, RBIs and OBP is still fairly good.
The Owners tried to be smart decades ago to try to stop player salary escalation and the whole collusion thing happened,
‘open to short term offers’
Translation: ‘We are not getting long term offers so we will need to settle with what we think is available,”
Dear Braves…. Make a move for both… thank you
Philly should’ve gone with this guy instead of wonderbread Kepler.
Ok Detroit, now that it’s not 5 +, get em both on 2 yr. Sprinkle some Bregman on top for 4 and were good.
They really do need all three, but I think after the Gleyber deal, they ran out of room for Bregman which is unfortunate. But if they got Santander and Flaherty on short term deals, it would be quite the offseason for them. I think AS is more crucial. This lineup needs a big offensive weapon.
If they aren’t going to extend Skubal, then their window is open this year and next year. They really should sign Bregman to the long term deal (though I don’t like the fit in Detroit), Flaherty, and then Santander/Alonso on short term deals with opt-outs.
sooooo…. just to clarify you think Bregman isn’t a good fit for Detroit but you also think they should sign him to a “long term deal”?
Really?
They need to go for it and there aren’t a lot of better options out there to improve the team. He still improves the team, I just think his bat plays better elsewhere.
They’re gonna have to be open to short term deals since it’s all they’re gonna have as options.
I’m just not sure how Santanders bat will play in Comerica. His obp is low. If he only hits 25-30 for 2 yrs that would be hopefuly worst case scenario. Tigers would have to make sure he’s got proper protection in lineup. I dont want to lose Jung. If we had to choose between 2 yrs of Flaherty and San over 5 yrs of Breg, I’d take Fla and San and play Jung in ’25.
How about these two guys and Pete?
“Meanwhile” has to START the sentence. It can’t come in the middle between commas.
Meanwhile, in Toyland the toys have all fallen down.
Or
Meanwhile… I am trying to start sentences with meanwhile.
The only way it works is if you read it like a Narrator on a kids show.