The Hall of Fame announced a change to its Era Committees eligibility. Beginning with the upcoming year, any candidate on an Era Committee ballot who does not receive at least five of 16 votes will be ineligible for consideration during their era’s next cycle. A candidate who receives four or fewer votes on two separate occasions is ruled permanently ineligible for future consideration.
The Era Committees, formerly known as the Veterans Committee, is the less common path for enshrinement. It is designed to reconsider players who were not elected by the Baseball Writers Association of America. The Era Committees also considers non-players (i.e. managers, executives, and umpires) for induction. The BBWAA voting process is exclusive to players.
In order to be elected, an Era Committee candidate must receive 12 of 16 votes. The voting panel generally consists of longtime coaches and executives, as well as Hall of Fame players. The smaller voting pool means they’ve generally had a slightly lower standard for induction than has the BBWAA, which requires 75% approval from a much larger body of media members.
The Era Committee process is on a rotating three-year cycle. In one year, it’ll consider individuals from the “Classic Baseball Era” — those whose most significant contributions to the sport came before 1980, including veterans of the Negro Leagues. The other two years have subsets of the “Contemporary Baseball Era.” That consists of one year for players whose greatest contributions have come since 1980, and one year for managers/executives/umpires of the same era.
Last offseason considered the Classic Baseball Era. As it does every year, the committee voted on eight candidates: Dick Allen, Ken Boyer, John Donaldson, Steve Garvey, Dave Parker, Vic Harris, Tommy John and Luis Tiant. Allen and Parker each received at least 12 votes and will be inducted this summer alongside the trio of players elected by the BBWAA: Ichiro, CC Sabathia and Billy Wagner. Of the remaining six candidates, only John (seven votes) received at least five votes.
The rule change is not retroactive, so this doesn’t impact any of the other candidates for now. However, under the new system, those who don’t receive five votes will not be allowed on the ballot when their era comes back up for consideration in three years. They may be considered four-plus years later, but falling shy of five votes again would end their Hall of Fame chances for good.
The Hall is hoping to diversify the candidates it evaluates. The logic is presumably that anyone who only receives a handful of votes from multiple committees is unlikely to ever garner serious consideration and should be removed in favor of someone else. In that sense, it’ll serve as an analogue to the sometimes controversial 5% voting threshold necessary for a player to stay on the BBWAA ballot each year.
This December’s class will consider players from the Contemporary Era. Contemporary Era managers/umpires/executives get their turn in 2026. The Classic Era will be up again in 2027.
Can we start having a ballot to remove guys from the early 20th century who got in after a bazillion eras ballots in the past? [ducks]
The Hall of Fame ought to be abolished. The criteria for selection are hopelessly vague. Some voters don’t select a player because, they say, he’s not worthy of a first-ballot induction, resulting in unintended tiers among inductees. Some players are denied induction, only to be selected later by voters who never saw them play. And on and on.
100% agree. The voting system is terribly flawed. Who would vote that Ichrio, Maddux, Jeter and Griffey were not Hall of Famers. Well someone did, they weren’t unanimous. No ballots should be anonymous. I’d hate to see the HOF become watered down, but they could easily double the size and go from 1% to 2% admittance. There’s no reason Jeff Kent isn’t in.
Guys like Kent and Sheffield are probably excluded due to the character clause.
I’d love to know what character issues they had/have. Two great guys.
I can easily rebut why players rarely get unanimous scores — it’s all about who is on a ballot at any given time. If the limitations remain that voters can only vote for a maximum of ten players, what happens when you get one of those ballots where more than 10 guys are Hall-worthy? Look at the first year Kent was on the ballot in 2014. He was up against 3 1st ballot vote-getters, 9 others who made it in shortly thereafter, plus guys like Clemens, Bonds and Schilling. How does a voter limited to 10 picks choose when there were 15 or more completely worthy candidates? The problem isn’t the Hall itself, it’s the method of voting that hurts things.
Stud – Any time there is voting involved, there will always be renegades who go against the obvious because they are either ignorant or heavily biased. But you don’t throw away the baby with the bathwater, that’s just silly.
Plenty of other Hall of Fames have similar issues, such as the Rock Hall of Fame.
Dick Allen was definitely — initially left out of the Hall of Fame because of the character clause.
I’m sure Sheffield fits in that same category from his excellent playing years.
Although I totally agree that the Baseball HOF and the Rock N Roll HOF are both HOF’s with issues but using them for comparison I don’t think really works maybe the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame and the WWE Hall of Fame might be better. Just a thought
Abolish? It’s just a museum. A museum with a lot of fanfare around what they put in one room of it, but just a museum. The issue is treating it like it’s something more than that.
Meow – Well, not really ….. it’s officially a Hall of Fame and Museum.
thisiscooperstown.com/listing/national-baseball-ha…
Unlike other places that are just museums.
I don’t think anyone voted the Mona Lisa into The Louvre ;O)
But a “Hall of fame” is just the theme of a museum. And all museums have a curation process to decide what’s displayed in them, so in effect some small group of people did “vote” the Mona Lisa into the Louvre.
Meow – I think the big difference is all HOF’s honor people, whereas museums basically contain just very old objects.
Not all museums are also HOF’s., but all HOF’s are also museums.
No —-
A “Hall of Fame” for a specific Sport —— let’s say Baseball —-
It’s for the absolute “Icon Players”, “The Best of the Best”, the players who legitimately, (without artificial aids) — set the individual records in the sport such as; HR, Consecutive games played, Stolen Bases, the Most Career Hits —- etc. etc. etc.
The “Best All-Around Players” (combining the Five-Way players Career Stats —- a player such as Willie Mays, Roberto Clemente, Mickey Mantle, Stan Musial)
“Most Valuable Players”, especially players with “Multiple MVP’s”
Baseball, Football, even sports such as Bowing “Hall of Fame” are all composed with Players of strong integrity that set the standards by which the game should be played….
They set the standards by which players following in their footsteps should set as their Guidelines!!
Not just a Museum —-
“The Hall of Fame ought to be abolished.”
Such a bizarre opinion over something you could just ignore. You don’t like how it is put together, so it should be abolished. I guess everyone who enjoys the museum and history can just pound sand, because realsox from the MLBTR comments section doesn’t agree with how the players are selected and therefore, the museum will be demolished.
Totally agree. The museum isn’t just about baseball. It is about the history of America-warts and all.
alcon – Exactly! It’s obvious some of the people commenting here have never been to the Baseball HOF and are not even familiar with it’s history.
Fever: for the record I’ve been to Cooperstown 3 times.
Meow – What did you think of it? I think it’s great, like going back in time. I was a member for several years, every time we made the drive on I-90 between Buffalo and Boston we made a stop in Cooperstown.
Sorry dude, but this is LOL! The HOF is one of the great museums of the world.
Can we start shutting Gen-Z people up who think that only players born after 1960 are heroes?
If it is truly a place to celebrate people who became famous for playing baseball, John Donaldson needs to be in there.
I wish that’s what the HOF was but it’s a popularity contest among a select group of writers/ex players, etc. I hate players like Bonds and Rose but the criteria many in these comments point out are just silly. “Look at that guys head size” look at Mike Trouts head size keep growing. Just because some players got caught doesn’t mean it was all of the users. Many just stayed ahead of testing. Previous players took greenies, now many have adderall scripts so they don’t get Chris Davis’d. Carlos Beltran is a known cheater but he’ll probably make it. Curt Schilling is black balled because of politics or tweets. It’s all high school level BS
John Donaldson doesn’t belong in the HOF from his statistics, his longevity or even his defensive play. This trend has gone well too far.
What about Ty Cline and Dave Adlesh? They’re as deserving as some who are in there now.
Funny thing about Adlesh… I witnessed his sole major league homer at Connie Mack Stadium a very long time ago. While Dave wasn’t Bench or Piazza, it’s likely he was the best ballplayer from his HS graduating class or maybe in his county?
They need to induct Clemens and Bonds, two guys who were HOF players before they started juicing.
Who says they weren’t juicing or doing something else earlier in their careers?
I would argue Bonds having a tiny head and slim body on the Pirates tells us he probably wasn’t on the juice at the time. Also, if you are going to argue this, we know ball players were hopped up on amphetamines back in the day to help with focus. What is the criteria here? Bonds is an inner circle hall of famer. Harold Baines is in, but Bonds isn’t? Ridiculous.
That’s because Bonds started juicing the day he flaked on Pittsburgh and signed with the Giants.
Harold baines wasn’t a known juicer or at least didn’t juice like bonds did
Also if we elect people like bonds in then that means we will have so many classy A holes coming in like a-rod and canseco
Only 176 of his homers came while he was on the Pirates. So no one can say he was already a hall of famer.
His power was very inconsistent in Pittsburgh.
Three time MVP for the Pirates with or without power. That alone gets most guys in the hall.
Excuse me, 2 time MVP.
Did Harold Baines take illegal drugs to enhance his abilities?
Good. Let them in. Spare us another year of pretending someone like Scott Rolen was half as good as either of them
Probably should have been three, though.
sad – There’s already plenty of a-holes in the HOF, look up guys like Ty Cobb.
Darren – Bonds started using in 1998.
He already had 91.8 WAR, .959 OPS and 374 HR by that point …. not to mention all the Gold Gloves, MVP’s, etc.
Phy – He did get robbed of the MVP in 1991, he was more valuable than Pendleton.
ofal – And Clemens got completely robbed of a Cy Young in 1990 with the Red Sox as well.
Thank you Darren as I realize I’m not alone. We know they cheated yet they lied in court and/or to Congress. I’m not for any who basically committed fraud and got paid beyond what they would have had they not cheated. The benefits of cheating shouldn’t extend to the HOF when there are other deserving stars who did not stain the game. Integrity and sportsmanship are supposed to be part of the consideration process. Imagine if this was golf…
dewey – What are your thoughts on spitballers, scuffers and vaseline users like Gaylord Perry, Whitey Ford and Don Sutton? What about Rickey being linked to Balco along with his Oakland teammates?
There are different degrees of cheating that need to be taken into consideration, along with how widespread the cheating was during the player’s era.
My feeling is only the players who cheated throughout their career should be kept out of the HOF …. the players who never would have put up HOF numbers without cheating.
What about Albert Belle? Some people foolishly believe he should be in the HOF, despite the fact all his bats were corked.
Darren – Plenty of people have said it, because there was zero evidence (circumstantial or otherwise) or accusations from people in baseball that Clemens was using in Boston or Bonds was using in Pittsburgh.
It wasn’t until Clemens hooked up with Radomski in 1997 and Bonds got jealous of the Sosa/McGwire homerun chase in 1998, that’s when they started using.
Clemens and Bonds were HOF “candidates,” before they started “juicing.” They sealed the deal by taking drugs.
Dave – Both had the numbers and awards to justify their induction BEFORE they started cheating.
Unlike guys such as Manny and ARod.
The timeline of their cheating is only guessed at, not known for certain
All of them should be in. A-Rod. Palmeiro. McGwire. Sosa. Etc.
The league knew steroids were a thing and nobody did anything about it. They were allowed to cheat. It was part of the game in that era.
Many of the writers who didn’t write about it at the time – even though they all knew it was happening – are the same voters who denied entry to these obvious legends on grounds of “protecting the game.” Please.
It’s the Hall or Fame. Not the Hall of Fair. You can’t tell the history of baseball without these guys. They obviously should be in. Use their enshrinement to tell that part of the history of baseball.
Like saying a murderer shouldn’t go to prison because he didn’t kill anyone until he was 44.
What….!? No it certainly is not.
with this rule change, they should allow the committee to vote for unlimited people
Yes since they limit the number of players being considered and open the committee up to more than 16 members.
this is the HOF response to Pete Rose getting reinstated – they will use this to keep him out
Or the ped era players out.
The ped era and in the case of Pedey Rose, the pedo era
Good. He doesn’t belong.
kenny lofton deserves to be in the HOF
Absolutely. Lofton and Whitaker.
I second that!
I was just thinking about this the other day.. it was truly amazing Lofton was one-and-done on the HOF ballot.
Watching that guy bust it down the first base line as a member of the white Sox in the early 2000’s was a thing of beauty, so was watching David Ortiz hit two Hr against them as a member of the Minnesota twins, cool!!
Yes but I can come up with a LONG list starting with Evans, Munson, Tiant (who should have gotten more love), Belle, Hernandez, Mattngly and Murphy.
Belle should be a first ballot HOF’er. Bitter sports writers should have no say in who gets in the hall.
Belle does not have the stats to get into the HOF. Neither the total numbers nor the peak numbers. He is HOVG eligible though. Why don’t you start one.
carlos – Besides being caught with a corked bat, Belle’s own teammate confirmed ALL of his bats were corked.
Dewey was borderline, but I think he should be in.
Albert had neither the longevity nor the peak to get in.
Thurman Munson should be in.
Mattingly had neither the longevity nor the peak.
Dale Murphy had 2 MVP awards. Not sure how he is not in other than he was just not good long enough. His peak was incredible. From 82-87 he was as good as I have ever seen in person other than Trout. Then he fell off a cliff.
Keith Hernandez never cracked 11% in the voting and I have no clue why. He belongs.
Outinleft, for Munson just look at Kirby Puckett, as for Hernandez, he’s arguably the best first baseman ever, has a co-MVP and was as good a leader on the field as there ever has been. Mattingly was basically Murphy without the MVP designations and was also an incredible first baseman.
Check out Dewey Evans vs Dale Murphy who everybody thinks is a no brainer. Evans has 20 more War and higher ops+ for a longer career.
MVP awards are a popularity contest. before stats got more defined there were usually 5 to 10 players who had statistically better years than the MVP.
Wheres Bobby Grich? If he were on the Yankees he’d been in decades ago.
Albert belle was so good and he didn’t even use roids even though he had zero defense his bat is HOF enough to put him in
If Belle had played longer, he’d definitley be in the Hall. He only had ten seasons where he played in 100+ games, and was out of the league before his age-34 season.
It was his attitude and anger towards the writers that kept him out, not his longevity. He was that dominant.
dewey – And his corked bats kept him out too.
Albert Belle:
40.1 career WAR | 36.0 7yr-peak WAR | 4.2 WAR/162
Average HOF LF (out of 21):
65.3 career WAR | 41.7 7yr-peak WAR | 4.8 WAR/162
Belle doesn’t have the stats to get into the HOF. He is not even a borderline candidate. He was just not good enough for long enough.
I guess hitting 381 homers and being at least a top 10 hitter during those precious years isnt enough
But let’s keep putting the Joe Mauer type in the hall
It’s a little different compairng a left fielder to a guy who played over half of his career at catcher. Only 11 guys spent at least 50% of their career behind the plate, and had at least 2000 hits. Mauer is one of them. He also has the 3rd best OPS and 4th best OPS+ among those 11. Mauer had a filled trophy cabinet too, with 3 Gold Gloves, Silver Sluggers, an MVP, 6 ASG appearances, and 3 batting titles. He is the only backstop to have to lead the league in BA that many times. If Belle played until he was like 36, he probably would have made it in eventually.
The problem today is many simply use saberstats which while telling a story are still subjective and don’t paint a full picture. Those that saw Bell remember he was Jim Rice in a Cleveland uniform. Some years, he was scarier at the plate and other seasons Rice was.
I’m a Cleveland fan, and I was at the game where he hit #50 for his best year. Albert Belle doesn’t belong.
381 homers is nice, it’s not automatic to the hall like 500. Especially when you made your bones during an era when guys like Brady Anderson were hitting 50. The offensive environment was so weird that Dante Bichette hit 40 in a year and was a sub replacement player. You might argue him in if those 381 come in, say, the 1970s.
Those home runs mean less, *and* he doesn’t have anything else to build a case on. He wasn’t a particularly talented runner or defender. He is not a hall of famer. In fact, of that famed 1995 outfield, he’s the least deserving of a hall of fame nod: behind Lofton and Manny Ramirez.
40.1 career bWAR. Unless you have mitigating factors, no way he gets in. For comparison purposes, Reggie Smith had a 137 OPS+ against Belle’s 144, but was much better in every category.
sad – Besides being caught with a corked bat, Belle’s own teammate confirmed ALL of his bats were corked.
“Commissioner’s Office
Considering Petition To Remove Pete Rose From Ineligible List”
.
I’m sorry, but I seen that post from a few days ago with the comments turned off. Here’s what I think of the commissioner, MLB, and my thoughts on that subject
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You can take your idea and place it in a very uncomfortable area of your body. MLB and the commissioner have no class. Literally waited till the man passed away to come up with this? After all the times Pete Rose asked, the fans asked, and hoped that he would be removed from such a stupid list, and now they wanna do it? Well guess what MLB.. he’s not here anymore! Take your petition, roll it up, and you can guess what the next step is
You may want to get your facts straight before commenting. The reason he is considering this is because Pete’s daughter petitioned for reinstatement. It did not come out of the blue, Manfred did not come up with it. He is the commissioner so he has to consider it. Doesn’t mean he has to act positively on it.
And it wasn’t a stupid list. Rose bet on baseball, which strikes at the integrity of the game. He also accepted the ban imposed by then commissioner Bart Giamanti. He absolutely deserved to be on that list and deserves to remain on that list.
Rose bet on baseball and his mistake was denying it for 30+ years. Fast forward to the digital age of pretty much everything. Two major sponsors for mlb is Draft Kings and FanDuel. It’s kind of a double standard to allow betting on mlb games.
I know it’s apples to oranges fans betting vs. A player doing it.
Oh please, there’s always been talk and requests by Rose himself for the ban to be lifted, he was either denied or ignored. But now all of a sudden the commissioner is “considering”? Gee thanks for waiting till after he died to “consider” it.
.
People that aren’t incredibly sensitive could care less that Rose gambled. he didn’t cheat, he didn’t treat the game poorly, he was one of the best to ever play, and he was legit. “Gambling is bad” yea that’s why there’s multiple gambling sites where athletes can now bet.
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Truthfully going by your words “deserves to remain on that list” it sounds like you really don’t like people or baseball.
Baseball, how do you know he didn’t cheat? He apparently bet on Reds’ games knowing who was injured, controlling the lineup and managing the staff and defense.
you’re just assuming he (might) have cheated. there’s no real evidence that he did. That’s like saying that there’s “rumors” that some of the guys in the HOF used steroids. Unless you’re 100% proven guilty, then it doesn’t matter.
We know he bet on baseball.
I know this will sound pedantic but Rose was banned from baseball for life and that was the reason for him being barred from the HOF. Now that he’s dead the ban is lifted and he can be considered for the Hall. I don’t agree with it, but that’s how we got here. Pete was one of the best ever and definitely deserves to be in.
I agree he should be in. But he wasn’t banned for life, he was put on permanently ineligible list. Look it up
A ban from baseball is not a ban from the Hall of Fame. They are two different operations. The HOF has made this very clear.
@Chicken In Philly?
True. However, a person on the permanently ineligible list cannot be voted into the Hall of Fame.
Per the HOF:
“Anyone on the permanently ineligible list can’t be considered for election to the Hall under a rule adopted by the Hall’s board of directors in 1991.”
If Pete was ever enshrined, many would likely boycott and not show up at the induction ceremony. Many more would not watch on TV. I The only reason he wanted in, was monetary.
Pete Rose was not banned for life. He was banned permanently and he agreed to the ban. He does not deserve to be enshrined in the HOF.
The day after Shoeless Joe is reinstated, then Pedo Pete should be considered. Not a day sooner.
The ban on Pete Rose has not been lifted. The Commissioner will consider it because Pete’s daughter requested it. Pete requested it many times and was denied each time. There is nothing saying that the petition will be granted now.
Shoeless Joe Jackson first!
Different situation. Shoeless Joe Jackson only.
Boo hoo to you then
“Literally waited till the man passed away to come up with this?”
LOL at trying to insist upon decorum when discussing a pedo sleezebag like Pete Rose. One of the most classless people to have ever played the game.
Can we please get Sweet Lou Whitaker in?
The hall of injuring themselves while dancing maybe. Think he was doing the cossack split and then was never able to get back up
I never got to watch Lou play, but his baseball reference page tells me he should be in. What am I missing?
Phyguy, in my view a great player who just misses. Sort of like Bill Buckner in my view. Everyone only remembers game 6 of the 86 WS and not that Boston would not have one the division then if he wasn’t their MVP in August and September getting shots in both knees before and after most games. His stats are very good as well but there were others at his position then just a bit better.
Phyguy, Whitaker was a quiet guy who avoided press. He’s an LDS member who didn’t quite fit in the spotlight of pro sports marketing. Yet he had a great career, more for speed early, developed power later, but always a top flight defender and base runner. Him and Tram were amazing to watch for so many seasons.
Grich was a better all-around 2B by a decent margin. No Grich, no Whitaker.
Jeff Kent says hi, would like to wash your truck. You wash my truck, I’ll wash yours. Which I think was also a Whitesnake video
Joe, both grich and Lou should be in. But if one gets his day before the other it’s still long overdue recognition for that guy’s excellence.
That’s fine. HOF has the right to change the rules if it wants. And I get the notion of making room for others by limiting room on the ballot for those who don’t get enough support when they are on the ballot. But then make sure that you don’t limit voters in how many players they can vote for.
This is also known as the if you whine enough about change in your Fangraph articles you get your way Jay Jaffe rule.
Jay will always cry and flip flop. He’s another huge ego who thinks he’s the king of baseball. His writing sucks too. They should give Mike Petriello or another good writer his vote.
Except for two months a year when he’s recycling his narcissistic JAWS nonsense. Jaffe is out of place writing for Fangraphs.
You can tell someone is doing the statistical work for him in his non-HOF articles because that’s not his skillset.
I like it. If a player doesn’t get at least 5 votes in two separate votes then they don’t belong.
Or if you’re a smug teammate who fathers numerous illegitimate kids and then later run for the senate on a family values platform after abandoning said kids you lose eligibility
?
just read about Gsrvey. i hadn’t heard this before
Steve Garvey, the father of our nation.
Steve “Walder” Garfrey. Lord of the Twins!
Smug teammate? You mean the only teammate that attended former Padre Alan Wiggins funeral when he died from AIDS. The same guy that stood up for female reporter Claire Smith because none of the other 1984 Padres wanted to take an interview from a female reporter?
Wasn’t he the same person that actually received a higher vote percentage than Donald Trump in the 2024 election and the highest by a Republican for higher office in California in well over a decade?
Who cares that he’s been married to the same woman for thirty-five years and has raised very successful children from his current marriage.
Instead, it’s the same old tired arguments that the media has fed us for decades that ignores anything that he’s done as a positive.
“Wasn’t he the same person that actually received a higher vote percentage than Donald Trump in the 2024 election and the highest by a Republican for higher office in California in well over a decade?”
Neither of these are high bars to clear and neither say anything about the type of person Garvey is. There are politicians of every stripe who are bad people but get tons of votes.
Shame Luis Tiant isn’t already in and now he’s ineligible forever.
No he’s not Bruce. It’s moving forward, not retroactive.
What will it take for Dr. Frank Jobe to get on a ballot? Marvin Miller is in; it’s time for Dr. Jobe to be enshrined. This site features a story about his legacy nearly every day.
And what about the people who invented “the Creme” and/or “the Clear”?
Let’s put the rosin bag inventor in there too. I’m a big hall guy but keep doctors and executives out. They never even touched the field during games. Start a medical or executive hall of fame for their egos and your fantasies
Do you understand Jobe’s contributions to the game? He’s the reason countless players were able to salvage their careers following a catastrophic injury. No person has had a more significant impact outside of Marvin Miller in the past 50 years. That’s a huge part of what the Hall represents.
I feel like this is a way to make sure some people they do not like getting into the Hall of Fame. People like Steve Garvey, how many other 10x all stars are not in Hall? Loved by fans, not so much by many of his teammates. Who do you think the voting members are going to listen to? I know people find a way to make sure some of these players not in the Hall. The facts are there, he deserves to be in the Hall. They also do not want to deal with the upcoming steroid guys. It will be used to say they are done. They are not getting into the Hall.
Bill Freehan, a 12-time all-star, is not in the HOF.
He should be in… Why is he not? The All Star game used to be fan voted. It was a indication of who the greats are of that year. He has 5 gold gloves also for a reason. Garvey was an MVP and 4x Gold Glove winner for a reason. People want to use WAR or other metrics to try to keep people out. Let’s get them in…
@peyton161816.
Garvey’s Gold Gloves were puzzling. Not a great 1B; he couldn’t make the 3-6-3.
Here is the 1974 MVP voting with player stats. Garvey? Really?
baseball-reference.com/awards/awards_1974.shtml
Hey! He was the 17th best vote getter that year. A little respect!
@El Kabong
Big factor that probably played into the voter’s decisions were how good the Dodgers were that year. They had 102 wins. The Orioles were the next closest at 91.
@mlb1225
The Reds won 98 games. The NL West wound up being a close race. At the time, I thought it would be Wynn and not Garvey.
Thanks for the correction, but yeah. Garvey was arguably not even the most valuable player on his own team. Even using the standards of the 1970s, how does Garvey win over Johnny Bench or especially Mike Schmidt (who didn’t even finish top 5 in voting)? 36 home runs, 23 stolen bases, 116 RBI, .282 batting average, elite defense at third base.
Even if the writers of the day believed that the MVP should come from a winning team, Garvey was the wrong choice. As you stated, Bench and especially Schmidt would have been excellent choices.
Steve Garvey:
First Base (51st):
38.0 career WAR | 28.7 7yr-peak WAR | 2.6 WAR/162
Average HOF 1B (out of 25):
65.0 career WAR | 42.0 7yr-peak WAR | 4.8 WAR/162
Garvey does not belong in the HOF. His stats do not justify it.
@outinfeftfield
As a 16-year-old Dodger fan in 1974, I was stunned when Garvey was named MVP. I expected it to go to offseason acquisition Jimmy Wynn, who I felt made the most significant difference on the team. Modern stat-keeping would suggest Mike Schmidt.
It was the same year Jeff Burroughs was named AL MVP.
10 Time All Star
NL MVP
4x Gold Glove
Come on…
Not even close.
He won popularity contests but couldn’t play the game at a HOF level. His stats say he doesn’t belong. They say he is not even close to belonging.
Using modern stats to judge a player that played prior to the stat being invented is a worthless way to measure someone’s skillset.
Want to know the best way to know this.
Good Luck explaining how defensive WAR (which is a major reason for his low WAR total) was measured for Steve Garvey (or anyone who played in the 1970’s or earlier for that matter). It’s just pure guessing by stat heads.
Unlike today’s game, video footage doesn’t exist for most games prior to 1980 (it’s even spotty until the late 1980’s) and in Garvey’s case, there isn’t any footage of him at all when he played third base prior to switching over to first.
Garvey had a .775 OPS as a 1B which translates to about 17% better than league average. He played a lot of games so his numbers look more impressive on a cursory look. When you look in depth they don’t stand up and that’s why he’s repeatedly fallen short of voters requirements for induction. Other than a high hit total he didn’t offer any noteworthy stats. A career OBP of .329 from a defense first position isn’t impressive.
Footage of Garvey playing 3B is etched in my mind. I still have nightmares about possibly being hit with one of his errant throws.
OBP and OPS were measurements that weren’t used (and in the case of the later didn’t even exist) when Steve Garvey started his career.
They’re both products of the sabermetric revolution. OBP only became in vogue when Bill James started analyzing stats in the mid-1980’s and OBP is a stat that wasn’t even used until the mid-1990’s.
In the 1970’s, #3 and #4 hitters aimed each year to have a .300 batting average, 100 RBI’s, 200 hits and 25 home runs.
That’s what Steve Garvey focused on.
When Tommy Lasorda asked him to increase his power output when he first became the Dodgers manager in 1977, Garvey was able to do that without compromising his other stats.
Besides Garvey’s hit total, you’re ignoring that he was a 10 time All-Star which by definition means that fans thought he was one of the games great for a decade. He received MVP votes in nine different seasons including five top ten finishes. He’s the National League record holder in consecutive games played. He was the 1974 MVP and was one of the best ever in post-season play.
Mr. Wholesome also had many children to feed — an entire upper deck’s worth.
No, OBP was conceptualized by Branch Rickey in the 40s or 50s, but introduced as an official MLB stat in 1984. So it was well in place by the time he retired and was voted for as a HOF—and declined.
Really, you’re using that tired troop. It’s 2025.
And still is nowhere close to being a HOFer.
That is the most worthless opinion I have heard. It indicates a complete lack of knowledge of how the stat is calculated for that era. I do appreciate you showing us all why we should completely ignore you from this point on.
If you prefer troglodyte stats, Garvey’s .922 fielding percentage at 3B was dead last in baseball those three seasons. Not by a little bit either. The 2nd worst were tied at a .940. His defense at 3b was absolutely terrible and it’s why he was moved to 1B in the first place.
BTW, of the 2261 games he played in during the regular season, 1628 were televised. About 72%. It’s amazing what you can find out if you just look instead of assuming.
I remember a Sunday game of the week in 1970 against the Phillies. In the 7th or 8th inning Garvey hit the Dodgers 2B Lefebvre in the back as he ran to back up the play with a throw that was supposed to go to Billy G the SS who was covering 2B. It was part of blooper reels for years. I am sure that Dodger fans have a lot of those stories from watching the games.
Do you even know what those stats ARE? Apparently not. People that vote for the HOF do know. Its why Garvey is not in the HOF.
I literally said, “OBP only became in vogue when Bill James started analyzing stats in the mid-1980’s.”
Regardless, OBP wasn’t a stat for the bulk of his career so measuring his career and his Hall of Fame candidacy with a stat he couldn’t focus on attaining during his career makes zero sense.
If it was a priority while he played, he would have focused on taking more walks just like how he would occasionally try for a drag bunt in order to break out of slumps and keep his average about .300.
As for why he was ‘declined’, he along with contemporaries such as Dave Parker, Ted Simmons, Dale Murphy, Keith Hernandez, Thurman Munson and Dwight Evans didn’t get elected because their time on the writers ballot overlapped with the start of the steroid era which in turn made their stats look unimpressive.
As for Garvey, it’s why he had his peak vote total (42.6%) in year 3 of his candidacy which hasn’t been common for HOF candidates that stayed on the ballot for 15 years (now 10 years).
Fortunately for Parker and Simmons, they were bailed out by the Era’s committee.
If you go to BBREF and look at the top ten vote getters during his years on the ballot, he and Tommy John (who has a good case as well) are the only non-HOF in most cases.
1993
5th most votes – 41.6% – Steve Garvey
10th most votes – 16.3% – Ken Boyer
All other top ten voter getters are in HOF
1994
6th most votes – 36..4% – Steve Garvey
All other top ten voter getters are in HOF
1995
5th most votes – 42.6% – Steve Garvey
All other top ten voter getters are in HOF
1996
4th most votes – 37.2% – Steve Garvey
9th most votes – 21.7% – Tommy John
All other top ten voter getters are in HOF
1997
6th most votes – 35.3% – Steve Garvey
10th most votes – 20.3% – Tommy John
All other top ten voter getters are in HOF
1998
6th most votes – 41.2% – Steve Garvey
9th most votes – 27.3% – Tommy John
All other top ten voter getters are in HOF
1999
7th most votes – 30.2% – Steve Garvey
All other top ten voter getters are in HOF
2000
7th most votes – 32.1% – Steve Garvey
8th most votes – 27.1% – Tommy John
10th most votes – 23.2% – Dale Murphy
All other top ten voter getters are in HOF
2001
7th most votes – 34.2% – Steve Garvey
8th most votes – 28.3% – Tommy John
9th most votes – 28.2% – Don Mattingly
All other top ten voter getters are in HOF
2002
7th most votes – 28.2% – Steve Garvey
8th most votes – 26.9% – Tommy John
All other top ten voter getters are in HOF
2003
10th most votes – 27.8% – Steve Garvey
All other top ten voter getters are in HOF
2004
All top ten voter getters are in HOF
11th most votes – 24.3% – Steve Garvey
2005
10th most votes – 23.8% – Tommy John
All other top ten voter getters are in HOF
11th most votes – 20.5% – Steve Garvey
2006
8th most votes – 29.6% – Tommy John
9th most votes – 26% – Steve Garvey
All other top ten voter getters are in HOF
2007
9th most votes – 23.5% – Mark McGwire
10th most votes – 22.9% – Tommy John
All other top ten voter getters are in HOF
11th most votes – 22.1% – Steve Garvey – 15th and final year on ballot.
you also literally said “OBP is a stat that wasn’t even used until the mid-1990’s.”
and remonstrating for a guy that topped out at 42% really just proves the point everybody else has already made about him. you talk about Garvey almost as much as he talks about himself. nobody is buying him as a HOF.
Garvey is not HOF worthy. He’s even below Baines and nobody really thinks Baines should be in.
baines would have had 3000 hits if not for the strikes. 22 years .290 average, 300+ home runs. Hall of Famer.
Incorrect. Between the 1981 and 1994 strikes he lost a potential total of 102 games. He was not an everyday player but for the sake of argument I’ll give it to you.
In his best season he had 198 hits in 160 games, for an average of 1.275 hits per game. Extrapolated across 102 games that gives you 126.225 hits per game. I’ll round that up to 127 for you.
127+2,866=2,993. Not 3,000.
Doesn’t matter, he’s in the Hall of Fame but most people would agree—not worthy. He never received even 7% of the vote but got in thanks to Larussa cronyism.
god damn i was off by 7 hits…
facts matter.
Sorry, he’s not retiring with 2,993 hits. The added bump in ticket sales from reaching 3,000 is enough for the final team he played for and the one he got inducted into the HOF (the Chicago White Sox) to roster him.
No, he’s retiring with 2,866.
Agreed.
This is all about the Hall finding a way to not deal with the PED crowd as they become eligible for the Era’s committee ballots.
Baines:
6x all Star
Silver Slugger
Baines also had a good amount of counting stats. 2866 hits, 384 home runs. The only players not in the HOF with at least 2500 hits and 350+ homers are Albert Pujols and Miguel Cabrera (who will be first balloters when they’re eligible), Carlos Beltran (who was at about 70% this past year in just his third year on the ballot), steroid users like Bonds, A-Rod, Palmeiro, Gary Sheffield, Manny Ramirez. Then there’s Luis Gonzalez.
No one in the world would choose to have Baines on their team over Evans, Grich, Reggie Smith, Whitaker, Dale Murphy, or at least a dozen other players.
They might choose him over Grich and Smith. Grich only became popular when people started valuing WAR. Was he that renowned when actually playing?
Grich seems pretty under-appreciated but he was a six time all-star, received MVP votes in five seasons as well as receiving multiple Gold Gloves and even a Silver Slugger award.
Fair enough.
Baseball HOF is a joke. They let that liar Bud Selig in the HOF even though the previous commish sent him and every other owner a memo about stopping steroid use in baseball. Selig then tried to contract the Twins so his daughter’s team, the brewers, would have a bigger market. He let Montreal go to Washington but gave the Orioles majority control over the TV rights despite them being an AL team and the Expos/Nats being in a separate league. Ignoring precedent set by Oakland, Anaheim, Mets, etc. Bud Selig was a money squeezing worm and his legacy of rampant steroid use has left a black eye and fighting that persists to this day. It’s the baseball hall of fame missing the greatest players of my generation but we get Buddy in there who benefited the most off roids.
Selig, MLB and SF screwed Oakland. Their ridiculous territorial map was a joke. Had MLB supported Oakland as they should have, things would be a lot different.
Selig and MLB alone weren’t going to solve Oakland. It’s a city with much bigger issues than professional sports.
Keith Hernandez should be in on one of these Era committees
At least we now know how they are going to screw Pete Rose if he gets reinstated. They will give him like 3 votes and that’s it for Charlie Hustle.
That’s too bad.
Oh well. That’s the way things go. Charlie Hustle will have to live with it 🙂
whitaker
mattingly
garvey
dwight evans
hernandez
rick rueschel
all now
rick reuschel has the highest war of any pitcher not in the hall of fame besides kershaw, verlander, greinke, clemens, and clemens! an almost 70 WAR!!!!! higher war than like 50 HOFers
Agree on all these guys other than Garvey and Mattingly. Add Grich and Lofton to the list in their place for me.
They all belong (Grich and Lofton too).
Ken Boyer is also an obvious miss as well. An 11 time All-Star, the 1964 MVP, 5 time Gold Glove and a World Series winner at an under represented position seems like a future inductee.
Yes 100%
Yes grich and lofton too!
To add to reuschel, he played for incredibly crappy teams so he gets 0 love. Also in his all star appearance he gave up a major blast from Bo Jackson lol
Great, let’s find more ways to not put guys in the HOF until after they die. It seems almost cruel.
Lets get Sweet Lou in before they find a way to keep effing him over and put in Jabronis like Hal Baines
sigh.
I realize that actually understanding a process is not popular on social media, but hear me out anyway.
this is what the HOF actually tells the voters:
“B. An elector will vote for no more than ten (10) eligible candidates deemed worthy of election.”
does it say that the voter should choose his 10 favorites, in ranked order? NO.
let’s say you’re a voter, and you deem 11 candidates worthy. you want to vote for all of them, but you can’t. you also know that one of the candidates is a stone-cold lock for election (more than half of the ballots are publicized before the deadline, so this literally is true).
so you bypass the lock, and choose the other 10 that you like.
does that mean that you “don’t think [insert player here] is worthy?’ NO.
so if you have a problem with the HOF voting criteria, that is where you should be venting your anger.
this outrage also is weird because it implies this fantasy that Mariano, Jeter, and Ichiro are even among the 20 greatest players in history. no sentient being truly believes that. so given the fact that voting rules have varied wildly over the years, resulting in “percentage of the vote” being a useless way to measure players, who cares about unanimous or not unanimous?
all 3 player sailed into the HOF in their first year, with little to no objection. why isn’t that good enough?
(btw, I don’t personally agree with the ‘I’ll leave the no-brainer off the ballot to give me my other favorite 10 picks,’ but if the HOF wants to outlaw that clearly allowable approach, then they should change the rules.)
btw, many of the names above are in the Hall of Merit, which doesn’t go by PEDs or cronyism, etc
Well, this is how Bonds and Clemens permanently get ousted from the hall of fame.
Tear the hall down tbqh
Only in America…where we have freedom of speech… Does the HOF enact character clause…. Curt Schilling on line one….( aside from asinine statements he’s a HOF’ER) enough said… oh and sweet Lou!!
olm – If you think Merloni is a HOF’er, then so do I ;O)
Pitch.. getting serious… one more start each before first Saturday in May!!! I usually look at a small price ( one who threw a clunker in last race leading up) 9-2/ 5-1 etc..( giving a little more value. Than if he won last race… Nice field shaping up…
olm – Yes hard to believe less than 2 months away, so excited! Just did my taxes, have to pay $800 because of my winnings from last year ….. not the 12th but the 9th 2-4-3 Trikari.
No matter what… that’s a nice problem to have!!! Just saw watching tvg Trevor hanging it up… Racinggg!!!!Blessed in Chicago had a great one… Phil Georgeff… what a rush hearing his calls at all the tracks I frequented growing up….( occasionally having a winner lol)
Olm – Yes definitely blessed, makes for such a better experience when you hear the excitement in their voice.
Just once I’d like to get the Super ….. 9-4-1-8 bx ….. you know what those numbers represent, right?
Pitch…. I’d lose my President of RB fan club if I didn’t…funny thing when I came to the Fen’s way back when on baseball tour.. I have pic in front of monster/ Fisk pole.. of course just netting and your superfecta numbers!!! John Marzano had game winning hit in 10th!!
Agreed. I don’t like they guy—at all—but his career on the field is very obviously HOF worthy.
I understand not wanting to dig up the same old ground again & again on these Veterans Committees, but something bugs me about permanently de-listing guys just for the crime of not meeting a voting threshold two times in a row. I realize it likely won’t torpedo very many likely HOF’ers, but it just feels like a self-imposed limitation that will be lifted someday.
1-All votes should be public. It is not just the guy who said that Ichiro didn’t belong in the HOF. It is also the writers that vote for their friends, like Carlos Gonzalez, Philips, Dickey, Bronson Arroyo, Pierzinski,, Hawkins, etc. They vote for guys that most fans say “Oh, I remember that guy” after a couple of seconds.
2-If the writers are voting, they should write an article about the guys they voting for and against. Either that, or you aren’t really a writers.
IMO
1-Grich (#8 among 2B in fWAR & #5 if fWAR/PA)
2-Boyer (Through 1970, he was #2 in HRs among 3B and a GG)
3-Freehan (tougher position to put stats to, but 11x AS, 5x GG, 112 OPS+ before you had a DH to fall back on)
4-Reggie Smith (64.5 bWAR, much higher WAR/PA than guys like Vlad, Raines, Dawson, etc.)
Joe Brady,
I will add Thurman Munson to your list. Screw the counting numbers. He was an MVP and the first step in the Yankees’ turnaround. He was also as good a clutch hitter as anyone in his era. I know Fisk had a longer career, but it’s weird that he’s in and not Munson.
I agree that Munson should be in the HOF. There was a big four when it came to catchers in the 1970’s and he was a part of it along with Johnny Bench, Gary Carter and Carlton Fisk. A tier below that was Ted Simmons, Darrell Porter, and Jim Sundberg.
Bobby Bonilla should be inducted into the Hall of Fame for simple fact that we have “Bobby Bonilla Day”every July 1!
Technically, Dennis Gilbert (Bobby’s agent and the guy with seats right behind home plate at Dodger Stadium) should get inducted into the Hall of Fame for coming up with the deferred payment on Bobby Bonilla’s contract.
Complete ban on a candidate for not receiving at least 5 of 16 votes two times is not right for me. I prefer this version instead.
If a candidate does not receive at least 5 of 16 votes then that candidate shall be ineligible for consideration during their era’s next cycle.
If a candidate does not receive at least 5 of 16 votes two times or more then that candidate shall be ineligible for consideration during their era’s next 2 cycles and place that candidate on list B.
Maximum of two candidates can appear on ballot from list B.
Joe about Vada Pinson so overlookedbetter then some other HOF,s