The Pirates announced Monday morning that manager Don Kelly has been signed to a contract extension. He was named manager back in May, after the team fired Derek Shelton, but there was never any commitment beyond the current season (despite Kelly not having an “interim” label included in his title). Today’s announcement makes it official that he’ll continue managing the team beyond the current season. Pittsburgh did not specify the length of Kelly’s new contract.
“Donnie has earned the respect of the players, front office, and our fans –- and he has certainly earned mine,” chairman/majority owner Bob Nutting said in this morning’s press release. “Donnie took over the team at a true low point. Since then, we’ve seen meaningful progress, not just in the clubhouse culture, but on the field. His connection to the community and passion for the franchise make him more than just a manager. He is a Pittsburgher; he is part of our community. He’s the right fit, at the right time, and is the right person to lead us forward.”
“I’m proud to continue leading the Pirates,” said Kelly himself in the press release. “Our clubhouse is full of players who care deeply about each other, about winning, and about representing Pittsburgh the right way. I was a Pirates fan first. I know our fans deserve a team that delivers on the field, and it’s on me to make sure we reach that standard.”
“Donnie is an elite communicator. He is deeply trusted by our players because he’s credible, consistent, and unafraid of tough conversations,” said general manager Ben Cherington in the press release. “His background as both a scout and a coach gives him a rare perspective: patience when it’s needed, and an unwavering belief in players’ ability to improve. Above all, he values people and winning. His ability to adjust, lead, and do the hard work makes him the right leader.”
The Pirates have been mired in mediocrity for a long time now. They last made the postseason in 2015. They have only finished above .500 once since then, which was back in 2018. They lost at least 100 games in 2021 and 2022. They showed a bit of promise in 2023 and 2024, flirting with contention at times, but finished both of those seasons with 76 wins.
Ideally, they would have taken another step forward in 2025, but they got out to an awful start. They were 12-26 when Shelton was fired in May. Kelly took over from there and the club fared better the rest of the way, though their 59-65 record under the new skipper was still subpar.
Going into 2026, there will be pressure for the club to finally get to another level. The Bucs have graduated a large number of pitching prospects to the majors. That’s obviously a good thing but it’s also a bit of a ticking clock. They have four remaining years with Paul Skenes. The Mitch Keller contract runs another three seasons.
In the past, the Bucs have traded some of their most prominent pitchers before they have reached free agency, a consequence of their consistently low payrolls. Pitchers like Gerrit Cole and Jameson Taillon are a few of the notable examples. As such, it’s common for people in the baseball world to speculate about Skenes being traded before those four years are up. Keller was in plenty of trade rumors this past summer but ultimately stayed put.
On the offensive side, the club has had far less success. They didn’t have a qualified hitter post an above-average season in 2025, by measure of wRC+. Spencer Horwitz did finish the season with a 119 wRC+, though his offseason wrist surgery limited him to just 411 plate appearances. Joey Bart got just over the line with a 101 wRC+ but in just 332 trips to the plate. The team-wide wRC+ came in at 82, behind all MLB teams apart from the Rockies. Improvement will obviously be required there for the club to be a real threat.
As the skipper, Kelly can only work with the players he is given. While the club still lost more games than they won with him at the helm, the organization seems to feel he did a good job regardless. A lot of a manager’s duties occur in the clubhouse, communicating with players on things like preparation, usage, strategy and the like. The Bucs are presumably pleased enough with Kelly’s work in those areas to keep him around as they try to find a new gear in 2026 and beyond.
Photo courtesy of Rick Osentoski, Imagn Images

Good for Donny Kelly Baby 💪
Kelly was the choice for a while now. But removing the “interim” tag during the season would have cost Nutting a few hundred grand.
Only in pirateville does an interim manager with a losing record gets tagged as manager. Cherrington and Kelly and Nutting, the 3 stooges revival
He was never interim
You are wrong
AI Overview
+3
Yes, Don Kelly was named interim manager of the Pittsburgh Pirates after Derek Shelton was fired on May 8, 2025. Following Shelton’s dismissal, Kelly, who had been the bench coach, was promoted to take over the team.
While some reports indicated that General Manager Ben Cherington initially appointed Kelly for the remainder of the 2025 season without using the “interim” label, it was effectively an interim role. Kelly’s performance in the second half of the season was deemed a success, and the interim tag was removed when he received a contract extension on September 29, 2025.
You are stupid
nice retort, Dream
Now why are you calling me stupid, when I just proved you wrong. Swallow your pride and admit you goofed…you clown
AI Overview
+3
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fc/…
Whether signing “Don Kelly” to an extension was a wise move for the Pittsburgh Pirates is a matter of perspective, as the decision was made by the team’s management despite a 71-91 record and a lack of playoff success. Proponents see him as the “right fit” at the right time, a leader for the team, and a beneficial choice financially, while critics question the decision given the team’s poor performance and the management’s standing with fans.
Arguments for the extension:
“Right fit” mentality: The Pirates’ management believes Don Kelly is the right person to lead the team at this time, according to a report by Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.
Positive clubhouse environment: The team believes he will rally the players and foster a winning atmosphere, fostering loyalty within the team.
Financial benefits: His extension is seen by some as a cost-effective decision, providing a cheaper alternative for the organization, according to fans on MLB Trade Rumors.
Arguments against the extension:
Poor team record: The Pirates finished with a losing record of 71-91 in 2025, leading to criticism of the extension’s decision.
Fan discontent: Some Pirates fans are displeased with the extension and are calling for the firing of General Manager Ben Cherington, according to Yahoo Sports.
Stagnation: The extension may signal a commitment to the status quo and a lack of progress in the team’s performance, according to fans.
Cherington Nutting made it a point not to use the interim tag. They are the only ones who matter. Not the ai overview. Kelly being the manager in 2026 was decided months ago this is just a formality.
We already heard from AI overview Wikipedia and Yahoo.
What does bleacher report msn aol have to say about it?
And you know this as fact?
Well since the AI overview doesn’t matter, then all of your posts don’t matter. Right
Pirate fans thinking Joey Bart is going to hit better (or defend better) probably should start looking for another team to root for; your hopes are unfounded.
@Baseball Before you try and claim being right you might want to read what you posted or work on reading comprehension. It clearly states he was never given the interim label, so with the Pirates having not deemed him an interim manager, it seems a stretch for anyone else to do so.
Actually AI overview statistically does not really matter if gauged on accuracy.
Google AI overviews in 2025: Confidently wrong, impossible to avoid | Mashable share.google/pKLwcmaCjE9oCMQcY
My reading comprehension is OK. Your understanding of reading comprehension is another story. But I can understand your post as you try to console your AI companion.
3232 and AI always resort to name calling or insinuating that one is STUPID when replying to a post. From AI calling me stupid to 3232 challenging my reading skills. One should look in the mirror. An orange reflection will be shown. Shows how thin skinned one can be.
Tigers-I look at as just some more of the Pirates BS.
The Pirates made it a point up front to say that Kelly was not an interim manager and would finish the year.
It seems to me that because the firing did not happen near the end of the year and they liked Kelly and presumed that he would be given a contract at the end of the year that they de emphasized the term interim.
What would have happened if they did not improve from Shelton’s record or Kelly showed obvious previously unknown deficiencies?
A well managed front office and ownership would have fired him.It is questionable of course whether this is a well managed front office.
They were hedging their bets,implying that the well liked Pittsburgh guy would stay put for another couple of years.
They probably told him privately as such.
But this is just another example of their lying to the fans and saying that he was not an interim manager when he very well could have been in reality through his or the teams deficient performance.
@Baseball Im gonna have to side with the Pirates here who decided to not refer to him as an interim manager.
As far as AI companion, the data on its accuracy speaks for itself. Sorry if you do not like reality but that does not change it.
The standard of being better than Shelton isn’t a great endorsement. He can certainly learn, but it doesn’t thrill me he’s been extended more so bc I think it will mean more front office status quo
“He’s a Pittsburgher; he is part of our community. He’s cheap. He’s the right fit, at the right time, he isn’t going to cost is a lot, and thus is the logical person for us to hitch our wagon to. Will Paul be gone soon for prospects and twilighters? Absolutely but the savings will be through the floor. Did I mention how cheap Don is going to be for us? He’s a Pittsburgher.”
His primary goal is to deploy all the players received in the Skenes trade
This will be what nutting says but instead he will use buzz words to make it seem like the pirates are a 100 win team and not a 100 loss team
This basically says GMBC will be back next season. No way you’d sign this guy to an extension if you were changing GMs. Love Don Kelly but tragic that BC will be back
I’m afraid you’re right. I smell a 75 win season for the Buccos in 2026. The increase in wins over 2025 is due to the offensive upgrade GMBC makes when he calls up Konnor Griffin to The Show. We all know that no needle moving transaction will be made this off-season to improve the offense.
Trade Konnor.and Seth
75 wins with an infield of Horwitz, Gonzo, Triolo and Dejong??? An outfield of Kepler, Cruz and Reynolds??? Cutch again at DH???
Why not just say we’re going to win the Central???
Ha…ha…I’m not really able to say that.
Cruz doesn’t seem thrilled about playing here and should be traded
He’s eligible for arbitration this winter for the first time
it was already reported here on this site that Cherington’s contract runs through 2027.
He’s coming back
The leaking of Cherington has 2 years remaining on contract said he was going to be back. Trading Hayes Bednar said.
Nice to see.
Since he took over, the team’s winning percentage improved by about 51%. Can’t be unhappy about that.
Ummmmmmmm, did it? He was 59-66.
Let me get my calculator….. (tap tap tap, click)
Nope, doesn’t math.
Gonna be that guy. Old York is correct as he didn’t state the overall winning percentage, just the winning percentage since Kelly took over.
Shelton—12-26 is a .315 wp
Kelly—59-66 is a .472 wp
.315 x .51 =0.161
.315+.161=0.476 so pretty close
Now whether that’s good enough is a whole other story. And in any event, without a tangible investment in free agency, it’s a moot point
It actually maths pretty well. Shelton’s winning pct was .316. Kelly’s was .476. The difference of .160 is 50.6% better than .316.
Looking at it in more real life terms: Shelton’s .316 wining percentage would yield 51 wins over a 162-game season. Kelly’s .476 would yield 77 wins, or 26 more. 26 is 50.985 of 51
Nutting just rehired a garden gnome
Congratulations, Don Kelly.
A stiffy that’s puffing on a cigarette.
Hopefully FO will hand him some better players to work with.
Won’t be hard
This would be good. Given the Pirates history, I’m skeptical.
I hope this helps improve the Pirates’ odds of contending again, at least a little.
“As the skipper, Kelly can only work with the players he is given …” This is true only if the manager doesn’t have a big say in player personnel decisions. I have no idea about Kelly, but one of the reasons (one of many) that caused the Rockies to finally fire Bud Black was that he was the de facto GM in addition to manager.
How many years?
Pirates don’t want you to know
Now we will see how he changes the staff this off season. Bench coach should be first up
The hitting coach and his staff should go next
The team was worse offensively this year than last season and that’s not saying much
As a team, they were last in runs scored, home runs and batting average
They were, however, second in strikeouts
“The hitting coach and his staff should go next.”
If by “his staff” you mean the those who teach and “develop” hitters,
then I agree. ( For whatever my opinion is worth.)
John Wehner would get my vote for bench coach
I think the posters at the top are right. It’s really not important what anybody else thinks. What does Skenes think is what matters. Maybe the only thing that matters. And was he asked what he thinks?
“If anyone can turn Max Kepler and Michael Conforto into the elite offensive talents who will lead the 2026 Pirates forward, Don Kelly is the man….and, no, we do not validate your parking.”
–Chairman Nutting at today’s press conference.
I did not see the press conference, did he really say that?
Nutting didn’t want to risk trying to find a second person willing to take the job…
“Mired in mediocrity?” They *aspire* to mediocrity.
Another last place finish almost guaranteed.
Kelly’s lineups were not consistent and it was as if he pulled the lineups out of his hat.
Cruz was a major disappointment yet he continued to bat lead off. Canario stunk and should be only been used as a defensive replacement. Suwinski digressed and lost his power stroke
I could go on and on but what’s the point?
These problems fall under the leadership of the manager and his coaching staff
I’m gonna push back on this a bit. Perhaps the lineups weren’t consistent because he wanted to find SOMETHING that worked?
– Cruz “continued to bat leadoff” even though he struggled: who would you pick instead?
– When Reynolds struggled all summer and the clamoring was to drop him in the order: who would you put in his place?
– Kelly didn’t bring in Canario.
– Suwinski “lost his power stroke” way before Kelly got here.
After Triolo was put in the lead off position, he did fairly well batting .300 since August 1st
I realize that Canario was brought in by Ben, but he stunk and should not have even been on the roster.
You don’t think that the manager never tells the GM of players who aren’t worthy of a roster spot?
It was Haines who tried to make Jack more of a contact hitter but under the leadership of Hague, Jack’s power stroke was actually worse
– This happened in August, after he had already been demoted to AAA. Boilerplate hindsight. What would you have done earlier?
– Again, Kelly is not in charge of roster decisions.
– Who hired Hague?
so, you’re saying that the manager has no input on roster decisions?
Nice dodge. Have a good day.
TheMan 3
Look at other teams and you see players who play in all 162 games without losing their ability.
Why do Shelton and Kelly constantly rest players ?
They will play every day in Indy but will need to rest up hear.
Cal Ripken would never have broken any records with these two.
The only position player that needs a day off is the catcher.
They have even rested Cutch to his dismay and he only DHs.
I have been perplexed at how both managers have given days off during the season
They can rest due the offseason
I remember this season, IKF had been hitting the ball very well for about a week, was given a game off and came back and went into a slump.
Was it coincidence?
@TheMan 3 Canario put up an .840 OPS from August 20th to the end of the season.
The Pirates have to let castoffs prove themselves at the MLB level, and Canario showed something.
Did you really want another year of Tommy Pham?
I don’t want another season of either Pham or Csnario
Striking out is contagious with this team
Big mistake already in the off-season. Im afraid moron 1 and moron 2,will blunder this off-season and do nothing. YES Kelly is a cheap hire. Local guy. Well nutting the pirates need new blood. Kelly is a loser,like his mentor Shelton was. And cherrington is just an overrated moron who’s addicted to ANALYTICS. Yep the pirates are doomed. Nutting sell the team if you don’t want to field a competitive team. Absolutely disgraceful decision.
This move will be a disaster for the young buccos, who’s playing time will be given to scrub journeyman. Kelly will screw skenes and bubba by pulling them after 5 innings. Gonna be another long hot losing summer in buccoburgh. That for nothing nutting, YOU BUFFOON
I can live with Kelly as I hope that he has learned on the job and will continue to do so.
I knew that he would be rehired because Nutting is loyal to a fault,especially to Pittsburghers.
But Cherington needs to go because hitting development has been atrocious and he cannot make a good trade.
Six years is long enough.
But Nutting giving him a contract through 2027 shows how poor of an owner he is.
I am afraid that this announcement means that he is returning.
I predict by the all star break the team will be under 500 by 15 to 20 games. All 500 people who attend the home games will be calling n g for morons firing. Nutterbutter and cherrios will proclaim we are moving ahead. With pham, triolo, bart,suwinsky Davis and Canario leading the way. Team batting average of .177. Goon Kelly moves skenes and bubba to bullpen. His exclamation is we need to preserve their pitch count. Goon cherrios signs Heanly and tries to talk Steve Blass to come out of retirement. Yes folks this is the twilight zone, or as I say the TWITZONE
If The Bucs can somehow return to the offensive juggernaut they were in 2024 or 2023 theyd have a good chance of getting into the playoffs
The Pirates need a shortstop,catcher,and a right fielder,all of whom need to actually be able to hit a baseball.
They will not spend enough money to get good ones,and Cherington is a bad trader.
Why do I get the impression that the end of each year under him is Groundhog Day.
Left fielder.
My point is if they score runs at the pitiful 2023-24 rate, while giving up runs like this year, they have a very good shot at the playoffs.
They need Cruz to hit, or it’s futile.
No good free agent hitters are going to want to play for them.
Even verdugo turned them down last year
Where’s Joe L Brown when you need him? He fired Harry Walker in mid season in 1967,after 2 3rd place finishes. He fired Bill Virdon after winning seasons. Only in Pittsburgh do you get rewarded for being a loser manager
A+ bargain basement cheap manager extension.
Been pulling for those underdog Pirates for years….but until they actually start investing more MONEY to fill some of those holes the new kids can’t fill, they will never get any better….Geez, what a mediocre lineup.
They are not gonna block Griffin with a big SS signing. C looks like Endy/Bart remix.
3b and LF and maybe give Cutch his send-off as a platoon year at DH with another signing.
2 bullpen arms that matter
This is what it would take to contend, with some realism about the roster spend. Not old realism but optimistic realism that they have 2 years to keep Skenes and they have to jump start the dead fish offense this offseason
They are not gonna block Griffin with a big SS signing
Well that’s good news. I was really worried Nutting was going to go out and sign a big ss.
They need a shortstop now.
Griffin will not be ready until the end of next year.
I did not say to sign a young Cal Ripken.
They can move Griffin to CF and should put him out there soon to see if he can play there.
Endy is injury prone and should be given a chance to make the major league roster during spring training.
Plus he still hasn’t learned how to hit major pitching during his brief time in the majors.
My point, he needs to earn a spot, don’t just give it to him
Kelly has a lot of Jim Leyland in him, like he doesn’t chain smoke. He’s not as gruff, but I never really thought Leyland was nearly as touchy as he seemed.
Lots of great quotes from “Ol Smokey. My favorite is, “If you lie to a player he will hate you for the rest of your life. If you tell him the truth, he’ll only hate you for a day.”
I think that’s Donny Kelly’s approach too. Be honest and tell everyone what you think. There was never any ambiguity about Leyland. I suspect the same with Donny. Good for him. If the Buccos can find some players, Donny will get everything out of them. I love Donny Kelly Baby. Love PNC Park. Pittsburgh deserves a winner.
Jim quit on the Bucs because he did not want to go through a rebuild. He did the same thing in Miami. Lasted one season of losing ball in Colorado. Went to Detroit to a pretty good roster to end his career.
Marlins ownership quit on the franchise not Leyland. The gutted the roster, payroll, and we’re in the process of being sold when he invoked his buyout.
As for Tigers, he inherited a losing team that he took to Wirld Series in first season. That team had a handful of castaway veterans and a lot of young unproven players.
And yet, Roberto is right about the end of the Leyland era here
I enjoyed that period more than any other in my almost 60 years of being a fan. But Roberto is right. Leyland bailed.
Old-He bailed after four bad seasons and iffy ownership at best.
He was not the culprit.
He may not have had a crystal ball but they were the first of 20 losing seasons.
He was not obligated to stay and manage a losing team.
You can say that he bailed.
But what would you and I have done in a similar situation?
Didn’t say he was the culprit, my friend
And I’m not discounting the idea I wouldn’t have done the same. In a much smaller sense, I did.
Very difficult to get used to having a winning program with guys like Bonds, Bonilla, Van Slyke and Drabek and then rebuild completely.
I get that.
I did not mean to imply that you said that he was a culprit.
I just think that he saw the writing on the wall.
As a KC, AL Central, small market guy, I’m stoked for Kelly & Pittsburgh. His ejection rate was high. You could tell Cutch & Pham were there to play for DK. The only thing that’s scary is this is still Nutting’s team and if StL goes out and spends this off season, it could be just another 5th place finish for Pittsburgh. That’s in light of the sales at the deadline this year that really returned nothing (and the rest of Nutting’s history).
Cutch was brought in by Nutting, not DK
That is correct
I’ve enjoyed the past two columns from Noah Hiles in the PG. The first was unfortunately too short and discussed players’ thoughts—with anonymity in place, of course—on the franchise. The bottom line is, it’s as pathetic as we thought. Players trashed Shelton as having become desperate this year but the real target was the carpetbagging owner
The latest column has to be parody. In it, Nutting calls this past season and losing as “unacceptable”. Perhaps it’s the only word he knows that describes his own franchise. When the subject turns to spending this off season, in-out-of-his-element team president Williams refuses to discuss the topic and provides the standard, we are close to being able to compete rhetoric.
Nutting wasn’t there for the Kelly announcement today which is no surprise, of course. He’s not a local, not a baseball guy and feels no civic responsibility to fielding a winning team. It’s noteworthy that the article discusses the lower attendance figures and how it may influence spending this off season
*Maybe Hiles was unaware of the expose his very paper did on Nutting’s revenue streams 3-4 years back. Or maybe he swallowed the propaganda.
The point remains, this is a carpetbagging owner whose only concern is profit. He has a hockey guy in charge of baseball operations solely for his financial watchdog prowess.
It’s a pathetic franchise and nothing will change this off season. Even the players know it
Nutting has no sense of urgency.
He spouts the same thing year after year,and Cherington mimics it.
I had hoped that it was just Shelton but it is the others too.
I hate to say it but this team is run by the same types that run Colorado,the White Sox,and the Angels.
This explains why Reynolds shows no energy and partially why Hayes was what he was and Cruz is what he is.
They are pros yes but when ownership and management do not buy into winning year after year it weighs the players down.
They expect Kelly to be a miracle worker but he can only do so much.
Hiles’ first column pretty much is in line with what you are relating, my friend. Cutch and Skenes both go on record as being miffed that they need more talent here. A couple of anonymous guys go further in saying that this is what you get for the Pirates payroll.
Enlightening and simply confirms what most here think. I wish Hiles would have gone a bit deeper, that’s all
Because the expectation here is losing. I’ve never seen a team so ok with the idea. Kelly could be a Leyland protege but it wouldn’t matter. You can’t get blood from a stone.
Watching Cruz play as he does must bother some of these kids who are gamers. But what’s the recourse?
The Pirates have rewarded guys simply on the basis of trying to portray the franchise as having turned the corner. They paid Hayes who in my mind was a huge bust here. He repaid the Pirates in continually being Mister Aloof. They have worn kid gloves with Cruz and have allowed him to dictate where he’ll play, when he has not shown any ability at short or in center
Maybe Kelly can engineer a culture change, but it’ll take a real overhaul. And with Nutting, I just don’t see some sea change that entails bringing in guys who hustle and want to win badly.
That’s my problem here. A lifeless team that often looks like it’s going through the motions.
Need a break from the Mets thread, I see? Hahahahaha (breath) hahahahaha.
He earned it. Now it’s the job of Nutting and whoever the GM is to go out and get some hitters.
I’m curious if we swap O’Neil Cruz for another outfielder; He just means to be pressing at the plate and can’t get out of his head
Trade Cruz for a decent pitching prospect with a likely rotation quality arm (even if back end) that is near mlb ready
Trade Keller for a league average mlb bat with some control.. something like Horwitz type and maybe middling prospects.
Use the saved Keller money to get another 1y contract on a back end rotation type pitcher and another hopefully league average + hitter preferably to a multi year deal. also keep cutch around for as long as he wants to 😀
Big bats are nice but just getting more consistent league average bats would be huge with this rotation.
Pirates don’t need veteran journeyman pitchers. They have a excellent young starting nucleus. If they were contending, I would say ok. But the last few veteran pitchers that moron cherrington signed were busts
Thanks for stopping by. Enjoy the off season. Non playoff teams breaks the bank. Roster underperforms. Good luck with that.
Couldn’t happen to a nicer fan base
Soto- I would humbly suggest that you wait for the Mets to actually win something before you poke another team’s beehive.
Smrt-Your suggestion on Cruz is excellent but it would take thinking outside of the box and admitting that the Pirates have been wrong in their continuous hype.
Plus do you really want Cherington to screw up another major trade?
I like Kelly in the Organization but not sure I like him as the manager.
Don Kelly is a good man, player, coach manager.
He will get the maximum out of the players that he is given.
1) However, Cherrington and Nutting must step up their games if they are truly serious about the Pirates contending for the playoffs anytime soon.
Ben Cherrington must hit on position players who can both hit and field in the draft and quickly
And, Nutting must open up his check book to sign some complementary free agents who can hit and field.
The Leyland signed by the Tigers comparison makes the case for giving your POB/GM all the tools in the Front Office tool box to build a long term contender in Pittsburgh: Smart drafts: Verlander, Granderson and many others) smart free agent signings: pitchers Kenny Rogers, Todd Jones, Position players: Ivan Rodriquez, Magglio Ordonez, Victor Martinez and smart trades (Cabrera, Scherzer and many others).
That Tigers plan would be the fastest plan to contention for the Pirates.
2)
OR run the Pirates like the Brewers and consistenly make great trades, great drafts and find gems in free agency.
Either of #1 and #2 may required substantial changes to scouting, Front Office etc.
Ownership?! Nutting needs to be open to major change OR sell the Pirates.
Otherwise, Don Kelly will use this opportunity to get managerial experience and be in high demand for other managerial jobs in 2-3 years.
Moron Kelly and new pens coach Muse look like twins