The Giants were 2-12 in the 14 games leading up to the trade deadline, a cold stretch that convinced the team to deal away some impending free agents (i.e. Tyler Rogers, Mike Yastrzemski) and a controllable asset in Camilo Doval. According to Shayna Rubin of the San Francisco Chronicle, the Giants also “briefly considered” the possibility of trading another notable player under longer-term control — catcher Patrick Bailey.
The way Rubin phrases the club’s thought process could mean that the Giants front office was simply doing due diligence in assessing its trade chips heading into the deadline, or perhaps another team made an interesting enough offer to at least get Buster Posey and company mulling the idea. “There isn’t a strong motivation to trade” Bailey, Rubin writes, which makes sense given Bailey’s defensive excellence and pre-arbitration status.
Bailey was the 13th overall pick of the 2020 draft, and his emergence and Joey Bart’s struggles led the Giants to opt for Bailey as the team’s proverbial “catcher of the future.” Through three Major League seasons, Bailey has hit only .230/.287/.340 over 1253 plate appearances, but he has won the last two Gold Gloves and Fielding Bible Awards for his superb glovework. In addition to his latest Fielding Bible Award, Sports Info Solutions also named Bailey the defensive player of the year in all of baseball for the 2025 season.
Bailey fell just a couple of days short of Super Two status and an extra year of arbitration eligibility. As a result, his first trip through the arb process won’t come until next winter, and he isn’t eligible for free agency until the 2029-30 offseason. There’s no rush for San Francisco to move the 26-year-old, and trading Bailey would then leave the Giants trying to find a new backstop within a thin catching market.
Creating a new roster need probably doesn’t appeal too much to the Giants, whose offseason to-do lists includes a focus on both starting and relief pitching, plus right field or second base as areas of concern around the diamond. That said, Rubin suggests the incoming Automated Ball-Strike challenge system might give the team some reason to move Bailey before the ABS system is implemented next season. While Bailey is a strong all-around defensive catcher, his elite framing skills are his bread-and-butter, and Bailey’s ability to frame pitches (and steal strikes) could be hampered now that opponents are allowed to challenge umpire calls.
It remains to be seen exactly how the ABS system will impact day-to-day play in the majors, though we’ve already seen the system in use at the Triple-A level over the last four seasons, and big leaguers got a taste at last year’s Spring Training and in the All-Star Game. It may be that the effect on Bailey or other excellent framers will be relatively minimal, though it could be argued that anything that diminishes his glovework has an outsized impact on his overall value, since Bailey isn’t providing anything at the plate.
San Francisco’s catching position should get some attention anyway this winter since the team might non-tender Andrew Knizner, creating the need for a new backup. The Giants are likely to bring in a veteran or two to compete for the job in Spring Training, plus Jesus Rodriguez is an internal candidate for the role. Rodriguez was one of the four prospects acquired from the Yankees for Doval, and Rubin notes that Rodriguez would’ve made his MLB debut with the Giants last year if Rodriguez hasn’t been set back by a shoulder injury.
All that hardware could make his arb years expensive in spite of his offense. Leading to the idea of a trade. Cheap defense only catchers aren’t rare
Defense like that is pretty rare lol. He’s basically Pudge Rodriguez back there
He’s the top framer. Which will have little value next year
3-4 challenges a game. Dozens of borderline pitches.
It will obviously still have plenty of value
He’s also a top 2-3 thrower and above average blocker
Spring training will tell us how teams will use their challenges. Was a little surprised to see 4.1/game in AAA this year. Thought it would be higher. 50% overturn rate. Not sure what to think of that. Their umps must be decent?
Still less value for framing but yes not as much as I expected
I think most of it is that if *ANY* part of the ball touches *ANY* part of the strike zone it’s called a strike by the ABS even if 99.9% of the ball doesn’t.
So yes, the Umps are pretty decent.
Umps are better than people think, alot of it is perception and narrative.
Those pitches really are toss ups. It’s not practical to ask a person to make live calls with today’s pitchers imo. A fully automated strike zone would be a scary thing. Sweepers will be landing in the opposite batters box for a strike after clipping the front on the plate
Maybe Bailey will be traded Michael’s or Hobby Lobby, where there will still be a reward for “framer of the year”.
Seriously, Patrick is not going anywhere on 2026. Giants do need to get a couple of starting pitchers.
Not so. His framing will have to be challenged and only two -three challenges a game will be available. His defense will still be a major asset.
“Dozens of borderline pitches.”
But only ~2 per game are actually influenced by pitch framing. Framing will still have value, but it’ll be greatly diminished.
Interesting that you think it’s going to favour the pitchers, I generally think it’s going to favourably impact the hitters. I’ve seen enough 3-0 3-1 balls called strikes to last a lifetime.
Arbitration salaries are more weighed by counting stats and offense than by defense, even with the awards he’s won. If anything, he’d probably be underpaid relative to his value because of that.
I also briefly considered getting a tattoo.
Then I thought why pay for torture…
A season-ticket holder, I presume.
I kid, I kid.
Ya, can’t afford to pay for that kind of torture either.
oldgfan
Was it going to be a Giant tattoo? Or just a regular one?
Probably a Duck the Fodgers one.
The mighty ducks?
At 60, I kinda wish I had gotten that tattoo, now all my skin looks like bubble wrap anyway! Aging is not for the weak!
Thanks, lots to look forward to…
Things that make you say hmmm? Wonder what that package was.
I can’t imagine they were offered much; he’s essentially an automatic out for months at a time and his pitch framing skills won’t be worth nearly as much with the upcoming challenge system.
He flashes talent with the bat, and believe he has a chance to be better at the plate. I’m definitely glad they didn’t trade him if you’re right. Pitch framing will still be valuable. Especially if the team has burned their challenges.
Exactly.
You can’t challenge every pitch.
Patty barrels is in there somewhere.
Change in coaching may help him too.
The best framers are estimated to affect 1-2 pitches per 100 thrown.
Pitch framing value will diminish with the challenge system.
You can challenge like two pitches a game lol
Wild comment
You get two unsuccessful challenges per game. You can challenge as many pitches as you want if you’re right.
Have you watched minors baseball? They’re 50/50 on being right and not every time a hitter challenges if it’s a borderline call
One of the reasons hitters are in the minors is because they don’t have as good a handle on the strike zone as those in the majors.
That still results in significantly more than 2 challenges per game by major leaguers teams.
Would depend what they are offered. Bailey is a zero with the bat and his framing isn’t going to matter starting next year.
lol there are like 170 pitches a game and you get 2 challenges
But yeah
You really just clearly haven’t read the rule or don’t understand it
You think that a called strike just missing by a hair is getting challenged in the first inning ?
Yeah. Nah. I don’t think so. Framing will have its place. I’m thinking challenges will be for obvious misses and tight ones in big spots. Less important….sure. Obsolete……no way.
I do understand it. It’s gonna be like 50/50. So you maybe average what, 3 challenges a game? And there are dozens of borderline pitches
Trying to be condescending with no clue is a pretty bad look
You’re really underestimating the strike zone judgement of major leaguers if you think they’ll only be 33% accurate on average. Very obvious that you haven’t put any thought into this.
Once things settle in, I think it’ll be better than 50/50. Major leaguers have a better sense of the strike zone than minor leaguers.
There was an average of 4 challenges a game in both spring training and aaa last year
Just take the L dawg
Exactly GMoney. Framing will still be an art. Hitters won’t challenge borderline calls, they want the obvious ones turned over. Not risk it
Especially non veterans. No chance they are risking blowing challenges unless it’s obvious.
All teams will want to have a challenge to use in the ninth inning so it will only be like one unsuccessful challenge in the first eight innings. But why are the umpires still involved at all? You have a system that you rely on to settle disputes yet you don’t use it all game? Something is fishy here.
“And there are dozens of borderline pitches”
Yes, but what matters is how often those pitches get beneficial calls because of the catcher.
Statistically, that really only happens a couple times per game. So yeah, ABS could pretty well neutralize that value.
And so many are cutting the lines.
You get 2 missed* challenges
Rally goose:I don’t agree with “Bailey is a zero with the bat” at all. He did have 55 RBI’s which is not bad for a defensive gold glover. He also started hitting pretty well late in the season when lots of catchers are pretty worn down. He’s also a pretty clutch hitter at times. Lots of teams would like to have him. He’s also really good with handling pitchers. So I would say he’s pretty valuable to the Giants for “a zero bat”
Any discussion of a catcher’s value is incomplete without the consideration of his work with the pitching staff
So many people say that catcher is only just a position but it is 2x harder than shortstop, and catchers have to spend so much more time getting up early in the morning to look at game plans and techniques with pitchers
This is why I believe Raleigh is barely MVP over judge even though judge had another historic season because of the work that goes into catcher
Catchers become very in tune with their pitching staffs techniques. Yes they are going to review scouting reports in opposing hitters, SS and all other position players are reviewing scouting reports as well.
Catcher might be a bit more challenging from a mental aspect. It is also would in no way be easy to catch MLB pitching, but from a physical standpoint it would be easier to catch than field SS.
Others have said it, but just to make it clear: Framing isn’t going away. Teams only get to challenge a couple ball/strike calls a game. Love it or hate it, framing will still matter next year.
Framing will matter, but not as much. The best framers affect an estimated 1-2 pitches per 100 thrown.
I suspect we’ll see more successful challenges on the best and worst framers than on average framers.
In 2023, Patrick Bailey was credited with +16 framing runs, which was best in MLB. That translates roughly to 16 runs ≈ 1.6 wins, or about 150–200 extra strikes over the full season. So that’s roughly 2-3 pitches per 100. So pretty close.
With roughly 4 challenges a game one would assume 2 right and 2 wrong. Also not all 4 will be used by the hitters.
If it’s equal that would be 1 right and 1 wrong by hitters. So there are roughly 2-4 strikes stolen a game. 1-2 over turned by hitters. Reduces his value by about 50% when it comes to framing. So he will still have some value but stealing 1-2 strikes per game really isn’t much.
If Bailey doesn’t start hitting he may find himself being replaced before long. Of course there is a lot more to catching than just stealing strikes. Like how a catcher works with a pitcher, blocks, throws out runner.
It will be interesting to see but his value will almost certainly be a little diminished.
Time will tell with Bailey. I do think he will figure out the hitting side of it. Maybe not elite but league average. That’s all they need with his defense
Who cares who they ‘briefly considered’?
You mean besides the people who read the article and are commenting?
The season is over. 2025 is “last year” in baseball term now. I guess they could have written “last season”.
“Last year” as in the previous MLB season – 2025. Time marches on.
““There isn’t a strong motivation to trade” Bailey, Rubin writes, which makes sense given Bailey’s defensive excellence and pre-arbitration status.”
That, of course, IS the motivation to trade him.
He has value to other teams
I still don’t get why they thought they had to get rid of Bart to sign Murphy. Bart and him would have been a great 1-2 at catcher
Because Bart couldn’t make contact with the ball and Murphy had a good year offensively prior to joining. It made sense to me at the time.
Murphy never stayed healthy even before his weird giants injuries. Giants weren’t gonna compete that year obviously. They even kept Bart around the first part of the year.
Bart sucked then and Bart sucks now, both offensively and defensively.
Patrick Bailey hit more home runs than him this year!
Yeah, in over 100 more at bats @rhandome
Murphy played a whole thirteen games, and was so bad he was worth -0.4 war. Let me check Bart real quick, 2.2 last year, 0.5 this hmm
It’s kinda ridiculous that framing is what it is when MLB has the technology to get almost all the pitch calls right instead of relying on an umpire who can easily be duped into calling a pitch wrong solely because of the way the catcher caught it.
To show how incredibly valuable framing is, and how incredibly exploited this area of the game is, if framing was eliminated, Bailey is roughly average in blocking and throwing, he’d likely have never even made it into the pros. But, because umpires can’t call balls/strikes better than 90% accurate on average, those 10% of blown calls are so heavily exploited that they turn Bailey into the most valuable fielder in the game.
Bailey is not “roughly average” throwing the ball.
😳 haha, Bailey didn’t win a gold glove because of pitch framing! Haha
He certainly did. That’s where the vast majority of his defensive value was derived from. Most of his defensive value is practically invisible. There’s a great YT about it, highly recommend watching it: “The most valuable defender in baseball (It’s not close)”
Right, because catching 95 mph sliders, blocking pitches in the dirt, calling a game, and controlling the run game are just minor background noise compared to moving your wrist an inch. If you think Bailey’s defense is ‘practically invisible,’ you might want to get your Statcast vision checked. His “pop time” is among the best: e.g., 2024 he ranked 1st in pop time to second among catchers. Throwing / controlling the running game: He caught runners at a rate (~27–30%) well above the league average, and his strong pop time plus arm velocity help here. That doesn’t look invisible to me
Baseball Savant ranked Bailey 3rd best in MLB with 8 Catcher’s CS above average.
They also ranked tied for 10th, among 85 qualifiers Blocks Above Average.
They ranked him 2nd in Pop Time.
So, no. His defensive value is not just his pitch framing.
Luke:Way more than an average thrower. We’ve seen him throwing out some of the best runners in MLB. I’m assuming you don’t watch the Giants too much.
Based on these responses, you both don’t understand how catcher fielding value is determined. As far as handing 95 mph sliders, blocking, game calling… that’s the job of every catcher in the league. Every catcher in the league is capable of throwing out the fastest runners in the league on any given attempt. Pop times are important as a component of throwing, but it is just one aspect. For real, watch the YT video about him, it’s very well done and explains how most of his defensive value is derived.
#Grog, will pitch framing be of any use from 2026 season and beyond?
Grog not know. Grog no have crystal ball.
Who cares… it never happened.
Bailey definitely saved himself with the solid September and game winners throughout. Plus the trade for the young hitter from NY helps the future of the position.
Bailey’s walk-off inside the park homer last season is the stuff of legend.
Giants up the middle defense has one plus defender.
Interesting player in Parks Harber (!?) from the Doval trade.
Focus on pitching pitching pitching.
Non Roster: I saved the video of the walkoff inside the park homer. It was pretty awesome.
The catcher the Giants got from the Yankees looks pretty good. Giants will have depth at catching going into 2026.
I have a different take on pitch framing. I noticed on more than one occasion that Bailey did not get the call on a marginal pitch that actually caught the edge of the zone. It made me think that perhaps Bailey’s reputation worked against him sometimes. Like the ump sees a pitch that looks like it might be a strike, but thinks it’s Bailey framing it to look like one.
And what I didn’t see mentioned in the comments about challenges, is that the batter will not be the only player to be able to challenge. The catcher can also challenge a missed call, and he’s is in a better position to do so. I think a team’s strategy might be to save their challenges to those made by the catcher. Certainly no team wants to risk losing their first challenge early in the game by a batter challenging.