As Spring Training gets underway, many fans are watching top prospects. For the Pirates’ Konnor Griffin, however, it’s not just fans in Pittsburgh watching to see if he’ll be in the starting lineup on Opening Day; it’s the entire baseball world.
Griffin won’t celebrate his 20th birthday until the end of April. The ninth overall pick in the 2024 draft opened eyes all around the sport with his performance in his first professional season last year, slashing .333/.415/.527 in 122 games across three levels, topping out in Double-A. That was enough to make him the consensus top prospect in the sport. The Athletic’s Keith Law called Griffin “the most exciting prospect in the minors since Mike Trout” last month, while FanGraphs’ Eric Longenhagen described Griffin as “a franchise-altering entity whose talent rivals that of Bobby Witt Jr.”
It’s hard to get much more impressive than comparisons to Trout and Witt. Between the hype prospect evaluators of all stripes are heaping onto Griffin and his unbelievable start to his pro career, it’s understandable that he would be in the conversation to start the season with the Pirates on Opening Day, even though he’ll still be a teenager.
For now, the Pirates are saying all the right things. Every indication has been that the team will give Griffin the opportunity to earn his way onto the roster. The players currently standing in his way, Nick Gonzales and Jared Triolo, aren’t the sort of slam-dunk regulars that would normally give a club pause when it comes to pushing one of them into a bench role. That open avenue toward a roster spot is great news for Griffin, and so far he’s made the most of the opportunity he’s been handed during camp with two homers in his first ten plate appearances this spring.
There are other factors to consider as well. The most obvious is that Griffin is extremely inexperienced as a professional. He’s played only 122 professional games. Elite prospects have been getting called up more quickly since Trout made his debut 15 years ago, but even by more recent standards Griffin would be among the fastest to reach the show. Witt had 161 games in the minors before his big league debut, and Juan Soto‘s short stint in the minor leagues lasted 122 games, the exact amount Griffin logged last year.
The Pirates are entering a year where they’re clearing trying to win, more than in other recent seasons. They added Ryan O’Hearn, Brandon Lowe, and Marcell Ozuna to help bolster a stagnant offense and added Gregory Soto to the bullpen as well. That quartet cost around $60MM in total, which is a notable chunk of change by the Pirates’ typical standards.
Reigning Cy Young Award winner Paul Skenes is under club control for just four more seasons before he’ll reach free agency and could see his arbitration price explode by 2027 or 2028. The Pirates are acutely aware of that, and getting the most out of Griffin they possibly can while Skenes is still in town should be the team’s top priority.
Service time is another factor the Pirates will need to consider, and that cuts both ways when it comes to the Griffin decision. Holding Griffin down for even just three weeks to start the year could unlock a seventh year of team control over Griffin by ensuring he doesn’t earn a full year of MLB service in 2026. The counter to that, of course, is Skenes himself. The Pirates didn’t promote Skenes until May 2024, but he was still dominant enough once he arrived to win the NL Rookie of the Year Award and earn himself a full year of service anyway. Had they simply brought Skenes up on Opening Day, the Pirates would’ve been able to secure an extra draft pick thanks to his Rookie of the Year win.
Another wrinkle in the service time conversation is Griffin’s apparent willingness to consider an extension with Pittsburgh. If the sides were to reach a deal either this spring or in the early days of the 2026 campaign, that would negate the service time concerns. While explicitly holding a player down due to service time considerations or promoting them only if they agree to an extension is frowned upon, it has happened. The prospect promotion incentives added in the 2022-26 collective bargaining agreement have somewhat lessened the frequency with which such situations occur, but they’ve also prompted some teams to wait until late August with prospects who otherwise look ready, so as to preserve their rookie status (and potential PPI gains) the following season. The Pirates didn’t call Bubba Chandler up until Aug. 22 last year. If they do agree to an extension, the Bucs would be incentivized to not finalize it until after Griffin’s debut. A player who signs a pre-debut extension is not eligible to earn a PPI pick for his team.
How do MLBTR readers think Griffin’s candidacy for a spot on the Opening Day roster will play out? Will he make the team, or start the year in the minor leagues? Or, perhaps, could his status on the MLB roster be determined by how extension talks between the sides go this spring? Have your say in the poll below:
If they extend him that would make their off-season an A- for me. Currently it’s a B- which is still good for the buccos.
I’ve seen a lot of grades in the B-, B+ range which seems a little odd to me. Just based on the last decade, I don’t see how this offseason isn’t an A++++, they signed two all-star free agents, acquired a third along with a great addition in Mangum. Not to mention top 100 prospect in Garcia, all without drastically depleting any area. They were a historically bad offense last year and made all these moves and spent legitimate money for legitimate players. How is it still a B-, I’m genuinely just wondering.
all good moves but nothing major that alone jumps the needle. ie swarber would have been major…
I hear you, I just think the rhree hitters they added cumulatively will make a bigger impact than Schwarber alone. They wouldn’t have added anyone else if they signed Schwarber and would still have tons of holes everywhere.
Couldn’t agree more. Schwarber would have only been a good signing if they also got two other bats to help him, too.
Schwarber was only leaving Philly if Philly didn’t want him. They did. Wasn’t possible to sign him.
Pirates
They might be the most improved team in baseball. Argues for A+.
They might be fourth place with around 79 wins in NL Central. Argues for C.
Far exceeded expectations because people expect zero from Nutting.
I will split the difference and call their offseason a B+.
I wouldn’t say A+ but I would give it an A-.
These offseason ratings are hilarious to me because they seem to be done in isolation to the quality of the team for some and not for others.
The Mariners didn’t do much this offseason, in terms of improving their roster from what it had been. They kept Naylor, which is neither improving nor weakening their lineup, lost Suarez and Polanco, not to mention Harry Ford, and replaced them with Donavon. A great player but does not make up for Suarez and Polanco. Yet, they’ve been seen to have had a great offseason because they are still in a good position to win because they honestly didn’t need to do much as they were so close to winning the Pennant last year. So they are judged based on their competitiveness not on their improvement from where they were last year. By that measure, the Dodgers could have done literally nothing and had a good offseason because they didn’t really need to do anything to remain competitive.
Yet, the Pirates clearly improved a lot from where they were yet had a worse offseason than the Mariners? I don’t get it.
Sandlot…beautifully said. To fairly evaluate each team….look what each team added….in COMPARISON to where they were the year before. You said it perfectly
There is nothing legitimate about the money they spent. Offseason gets a C.
The only way they compete this year is if Griffin is their best position player… which is certainly possible.
Based on what? Illegitimate in what way? You’ve made some claims that are not exactly backed by statistics or popular opinion, which is fine, but you’ve not supported it in any way.
A lineup that has Horwitz, Reynolds, Cruz, O’Hearn, Lowe, and Ozuna who are all projected to be 100+ wRC+ is a competitive lineup, even without Griffin. Add in Griffin, and it’s even more competitive.
Combined with a top five pitching staff, I don’t see how you can say they won’t compete. They might not get into the playoffs but, on paper, they are competitive.
Magnum is ASSssssss
You must be a Rays fan
Mangum was the biggest steal of that trade
Brandon Lowe alone is earth shattering for this organization, add O’Hearn and Ozuna and my oh my Pittsburgh won’t be able to stand so much newness and prosperity. Add Konnor Griffin to this, it’s a great new team to follow in baseball. I’d give it an A, A++++ if Griffin makes the OD roster no matter the reason.
I think he’ll absolutely be the opening day starting SS.
As for extension i think theyll buy out his arb years, but nothing more
They have to promote Konnor just to save face from the Bubba debacle. Besides why not give the fans an additional reason to come to the park or tune in. I do think they et an extension done.
Bubba is an interesting case. I can see it going both ways. They should have brought him up but he also didn’t have an easy time in AAA all of last year.
No such thing as a Bubba debacle. Fans don’t give a it. If anything they are thrilled they can get a draft pick if he does well. They added 3 all star bats and got the best prospect in baseball a generational one. Confidence is high. Attendance sponsorship is going to rise. Hypothetically if there was a debacle who cares. Certainly not Bob Nutting. He has had multiple debacles multiple years. It’s not the slightest concern to him.
Eh there was definitely a Bubba debacle and it started right in their clubhouse so there’s that.
Only in your mind maybe a few other fans.
Erm it was pretty well documented last season. Here’s the ai breakdown, a language you should understand better, which of course is aggregated from multiple articles. Enjoy!
Here is a breakdown of the situation regarding Bubba Chandler’s 2025 call-up:
Player Frustration: Chandler expressed that he was “mad” about not being called up sooner. He felt that his performance in Triple-A warranted a promotion earlier in the season, telling reporters”I was mad, yeah” when asked about the delay.
Support from Teammates: The frustration was not isolated to Chandler; some members of the Pirates’ MLB roster were reportedly so frustrated with the organization’s unwillingness to promote him that they contacted him to express their support or apologize for the situation.
Service Time Manipulation Accusations: Fans and analysts strongly suggested the delay was to manipulate service time to avoid “Super Two” status and save money. This sentiment was echoed within the organization, with teammate Henry Davis reportedly advising Chandler on how to deal with this exact scenario.
Resulting Decline in Performance: The extended stay in Triple-A, coupled with his frustration, seemed to affect Chandler, as he later admitted to being “in his own head” about the situation. His performance in Triple-A Indianapolis waned after a dominant start, with a 7.43 ERA and 1.99 WHIP in six starts after the 2025 All-Star break.
Delayed Call-Up: The Pirates finally called up Chandler on August 22, 2025, to work in a “bulk relief” role, a move that was criticized for happening too late in a season where the team was already out of contention.
Nothing I didn’t already know. Not a debacle at all. With the ppi rules unless him and his agent are idiots he should have known he wasn’t getting called up.
“a move that was criticized for happening too late in a season where the team was already out of contention.” Team was out of contention before the season even began. Bubba wasn’t changing that. 2 or 3 Bubbas weren’t changing that.
“Chandler, as he later admitted to being “in his own head” He admits himself to be mentally weak. Going through that would be beneficial to me.
“Fans and analysts strongly suggested the delay was to manipulate service time to avoid “Super Two” status and save money. This sentiment was echoed within the organization, with teammate Henry Davis reportedly advising Chandler on how to deal with this exact scenario.” Fans and analysts don’t know much as seen in comment sections everyday. Davis apparently doesn’t either. Super two and saving $ wasn’t the issue at all. Could have called him up in June and he wouldn’t been super two. Issue was being eligible for the ppi draft pick in 2026.
“some members of the Pirates’ MLB roster were reportedly so frustrated with the organization’s unwillingness to promote him that they contacted him to express their support or apologize for the situation.” Other than Skenes they should have been more concerned about their own performances or lack their of.
Could see extension getting done later in season but why rush Griffin,Davis was rushed and now you’re ready to write him off as bust … Let get Griffin in AAAfor a season,he’s ONLY 19!!!!
Dude may be 19, but he’s got the body of a middle linebacker….
Is that good or bad
They aren’t won’t rushing him. If he isn’t mlb ready they won’t call him up.
Davis wasn’t rushed he had like a 1000 ops in minors. Nothing there for him to do.
Also, Trout was 19 when he made his debut. Worked out just fine….
Trout also debuted in July. Big difference between breaking camp and being called up for the last 40 games of a season.
Point being Trout would’ve broke camp with these new rules…..
So Trout was the exception, not the rule. Please name all the other 19 yr olds that debut in the majors in the last twenty years. Obviously, there is a reason.
Manny Machado was 20 and 34 days. Not 19, but close enough for comparison, and he’s done ok.
This debate ignores the excitement of an opening day debut. Wouldn’t every camera be on the pirates? Skenes AND Griffin?
That would be amazing. And the division isn’t a pushover, but they could seriously contend.
This needs to happen.
Davis’s bat was rushed leading them to change his position. I still wonder what he could have been if they just let him catch and come up.
There isn’t a great reason to keeping griffin in the minors if he lights up minor league and spring training pitching
But spending a year in triple A never hurts
Gotta disagree with piratessandbacks fan. If Griffin looks like he’s ready after playing spring ball, let the kid play. I’d say former MLB player Harold Reynolds knows a lot more about players than any of us.
Reynolds is amazed at how well Griffin is hitting cutters & breaking balls…he’s seeing how other minor leaguers can’t hit these pitches…as well as many big league hitters can’t…but Konnor Griffin IS able to hit these pitches.
I’m ok if he starts in AAA….if he shows he’s not ready. However if he continues to hit all spring….lets please keep an open mind to let him do what hasn’t happened since 1989.
Ken Griffey Jr is the last player to debut on opening day as a teenager. We may have another case with Griffin.
Henry Davis is not a fair comparison to Griffin. Yes he was a 1/1 selection…but he was never close to being the #1 prospect in all of baseball. Entirely different case here.
Scouts and pros everywhere are making amazing comparisons….Trout, Witt, ARod….Willie Mays.
If Griffin shines in the spring….let him make the roster. He can always be sent down if needed…like Mickey Mantle in 1951. Mantle struggled as a rookie. Got sent down. Then proceeded to hit 11 home runs in 40 games (batting .361). He returned to the Yankees and never looked back.
It’s ok to start Konnor in the bigs. Great chance he’ll succeed. If he’s struggling mightily…go the route of Mantle.
Anyone citing Harold Reynold makes me laugh, he’s a goof and no where near an expert. Saying that I believe he’s ready. MVP ready no, good enough to help the Pirates, yes!
While you think he’s a goof, I trust his judgement more than yours
Even if they don’t extend him, which is looking like a reality, they gotta bring him up with the big league team. He would have to have an atrocious Spring Training to not force their hand.
Nutting can justifiably use the excuse that he hasn’t played AAA yet to keep him for an extra year. Griffin could still conceivably be top 2 in ROY voting to negate that down time. What’s worth more to Nutting – the PPI pick or an extra year of Griffin?
That’s actually really accurate reality. I’m not saying it’s right but that’s on brand for Nutting.
They probably do the same as they did with Skenes barring an extension.
Skenes was an entirely different situation. They were concerned he was overworked at LSU, so they had him pitch in the spring gimmick game and that’s about it. Check his stats – he had 3 IP his entire rookie spring. They effectively started his ramp up at AAA in April. Iirc Skenes was on board with this plan, since it meant they wouldn’t have to shut him down in September.
I’m sure the Pirates also loved that it manipulated his service time, but it was a pretty well thought out plan imho. And Paul earned his way past the service time manipulation, so everyone won, other than that whole PPI thing. But hard to complain when they’ve gotten a ROY and a Cy out of it.
Interesting thanks for the context.
That ppi draft pick isn’t a big deal. Just something to make the union feel like they negotiated and won something.
Skenes pitched as many innings as they would have allowed. So it’s either let him start season in mlb and shut him down and get the 30 something pick or whatever if he is healthy and amazing or protect his arm and let him get a lil more seasoning in minors and we get an entire extra year of him unless he is the best pitcher in baseball from day one. They made a bet and lost but it was the right bet. And it was probably about developing him to his max and protecting his arm much much more so than service time and draft pick. TJ surgery can easily take not only 1 but 2 years away.
The Pirates developed Skenes and probably Bubba as they should have done.
Contrast that with the Phillies and Painter three years ago when he blew his arm out the first game of Spring Training due to the hype.He lost two years entirely and one trying to get back to where they had hoped that he would be.
It is easy to be critical of Cherington in many ways but sometimes he shows a wisdom that is not always as common as posters may think.
And yes it would be nice to have Griffin start the year and enjoy the excitement of Opening Day but he is a human being and they can fail especially if they are only 19 years old.Let him play in ST and see how well he does but more seasoning in the minor leagues is probably a good thing to keep the pressure off him.
Pirates are just doing their job. Most fans wanted to call Bubba up in May June for a lost season. Now he can earn them a draft pick. Old rules he gets called up in May June.
That draft pick is worth next to Nutting compared to a year of KG
You have a front office that if fired you wouldn’t think we would be in high demand for future top level employment. If I was them I would be singing everyday how valuable that draft pick is to Nutting. Don’t think it’s going to matter though. Extension seems likely.
Acoss – Roman Anthony would like to have a word with you.
Fever,
Yup you have a point!
if they work out an extension before he’s in majors he’s ppi ineligible…
However if they work out the extension, but not announce it until after he makes his MLB debut, the team IS PPI eligible
A bit premature as he only has 10 plate appearances. On base 3 times. 2 HR and 1 HBP. Right now he is an all or nothing hitter in a very small sample size. Will have to see how it plays out over the spring. If he starts raking all over the field then sure he is going to start on the opening day roster. If he is not, it would make much more sense to start him in AAA for a month to play every day and settle in to start the season and start to consistently hit, he would be better off getting the call up oo a roll and a much better shot at never getting sent down again
Im just trying to think how many times I’ve heard the “most exciting prospect since” and it still never pans out. Not to say they won’t have a career but I think I remember hearing comps about Jackson Holliday and Trout as well.
Did he look good with his home runs? Absolutely. But a .222 average currently against a bunch of pitchers that may never see day one in the majors is what make me think he will be in the minors. He has plenty of time to get hot I get it. They need to keep him in the minors for what a 16 days to add a year of control? I could easily see that happening.
10 plate appearances and posters are labeling him inexperienced
He hit mammoth homers two days ago, one traveled 445 feet at a 113 mph clip
One of those shots was against Ranger Suarez…..
Thats why these posters comments dont mean a thing. They are just complaining about him just to get on with their miserable day
Please explain where I complained? I spoke the truth that you do not like.
@baseball
You post like you know something but you don’t. Look at what happened I was right
10 plate appearances does make you inexperienced.
Here ya go boogerman
Did he look good with his home runs? Absolutely. But a .222 average currently against a bunch of pitchers that may never see day one in the majors is what make me think he will be in the minors. He has plenty of time to get hot I get it. They need to keep him in the minors for what a 16 days to add a year of control? I could easily see that happening.
Thats you completely complaining
@ baseball
Sorry I did not realize you were five with your lame come back. That’s ik you found out you do not know any today with the prorated sending Griffin down
You do not know anything apparently since the pirates sent griffin down today.
Speak english
You still wouldn’t understand. What other language an I explain it in and you still not understand?
The point is you were wrong and I forgive you.
If its mammoth hrs you want, sign Joey Gallo.
Let me know how this rookie is doing the last week of ST, against the better pitchers, with better breaking stuff, who aren’t throwing in their first outing. He may be doing great. Right now, its just too early to tell.
Well, the point is moot if Griffin finishes 1st or 2nd in ROY voting….
@ Jerry
I am guessing you were talking to someone else. I never said he was bad just he was not make the opening day roster.
You are getting caught up in numbers. First off, he homered against Suarez. He’s no slouch. Go online and find the comments made by Harold Reynolds about watching Griffin play. He’s seen him. You haven’t.
Secondly….the .222 batting average results from 2-9 at the plate. Do you realize 2 of his fly outs were nailed dead on? Over 100 MPH velocity fly outs that were only outs because fierce winds prevented them from being home runs. 95% of the time those two fly outs are hits…not outs. And then you would be seeing a .444 batting avg, not .222. But it’s INSANE to properly evaluate him with such a small sample size. However when I constantly hear former pros incredulous about his accomplishments in the spring…hitting curve balls & cutters that other minor & major league hitters are not squaring off….ill tend to side with the guys who know a lot more than any of us. Give the kid a shot. If he doesn’t look spectacular after three weeks of spring…fine…send him down. Yet if he looks like another Mike Trout…and the team feels strongly he’s ready to compete…even at 19….let him play. Ken Griffey Jr proved it’s possible to succeed as a teenager without AAA experience. I’m not saying Griffin is going to be the next Ken Griffey Jr….but he might still be a superstar. Let the spring play out. No need to make up your mind ahead of time to send him down.
I am caught up in reality while the rest of you are living of fantasy value. I never said he was a bust. I simply said he will probably start the year in the minors.
@ Harv
You did all this work yet Griffin did not make the opening day line up and that was all my comment was.
Break wind more like
They still need to add at 3B !! Triolo not going to cut it going out there every day. He needs to be their super utility guy ! Griffin at SS & a legitimate Bat at 3B will give them a very good lineup
1B— Horwitz
LF—Reynolds
2B—Lowe
DH—Ozuna
RF— O’Hearn
CF—Cruz
SS—Griffin
3B—Paredes (wishful thinking)
C—Bart
Here’s an idea about the pirates 3rd base problems. With Connor being 6’4 225. Make him the 3rd baseman. At his height and weight, he’s better suited for 3rd than short. Then you can have Gonzales at short and triolo off the bench. If you can play short you can play 3rd
I agree ! They need more production at 3B
KG is good enough SS to contend for gold gloves. Why would you move him to 3b.
This team is going to be like the White Sox of the 80s. Lots of hitting. Very little fielding. I see some high scoring games.
Yes, he will break camp with them, and will win rookie of the year as the Pirates miss out on the wild card the last weekend of the season.
Yeah, trying to manipulate his service time is useless cuz he’ll get that year for finishing top 2 of ROY voting….
Miss out on wildcard because they win division
I am betting they are trying to extend him right now.
I’ll amend my previous prediction/suggestion to 7 years/$136.5M guaranteed with the option to opt into arbitration and nothing more, except maybe a team option that would trigger 13 years/$810M or something insane like that.
Basically for a team like the Pirates, there is no financial precedent for what an even team friendly but still realistic and sane offer that he might accept could be.
If they low ball him to their standards it’s a hard pass and if they offer him something remotely competitive they’ll be breaking the bank to the point they might as well open up their wallet across the board and enter a stratospherically different budgeting world for the kinds of players they go after to make his contract make a lick of sense.
If they extend him that would be a miracle since if Griffin becomes the best shortstop in the league he might be the 1st billion dollar contract in LA or Queens
7 years makes no sense! You can get him for 6.5 years going through arbitration for some $60M,if he puts up great numbers! The most I would offer is $130M for 9 years, and he could still be a Free Agent at age of 28!
GuateFan- I respectfully disagree! If he’s just over 50% of the value they seem to think he is or will be and he’s called up quickly, he’ll get super two status! Then it’ll cost them a minimum of $15M, $21M, $30M and $40M just to get through arbitration! That’s just 4 years but $106M! Why would he agree to a mere $60M and leave $46M or more on the table from a guarantee!?
Jackson Chourio did 8/82 +2 options. While 19. As your comp from 2 years ago.
If they extend him, then yes. If not, then no. They will manipulate his service time to get the extra year and say he “needs to work on some things”
They won’t get that extra year when he finishes top 2 in ROY voting. It’s so dumb. Dude is the next big thing….
They took that risk with Skenes.
No need to manipulate it. He should and it’s industry standard for him not to be called up opening day. Zero games in AAA and just a small sample at AA and only 19 years old. This century players don’t get called up for opening day with so little experience.
They just won’t let him get enough ABs to have the counting stats for rookie of the year. Problem solved.
The kid is definitely ready for the bigs. His glove work looks solid. Plus his swing is so pretty, with easy power to all fields. Once in a generation talent. Not based on a few spring training games, but on the stellar evaluations from true professionals.
Whether the Pirates want to get cute with service time shenanigans, remains to be seen. Personally would love to see Konnor start the year in MLB.
With the Pirates would’ve signed Eugenio Suárez. Pittsburgh seems one piece away, from having a good MLB squad. They should make a run at Casey Schmitt in SF, who is a MLB gold glove caliber 3B (with league average bat), who is currently blocked by Matt Chapman.
Yeah, Skenes and Griffin will bring fans to the park and sell jerseys. Too bad, Nutting is too cheap to build depth around them….
Lowe, O’Hearn, and Ozuna are all improvements on their respective positions. Soto’s another solid pickup. $45M or so isn’t a bad level of investment for them, honestly. Would have loved to see them land a better 3B, which is why I’d put them at B+ for the offseason, but they’ve improved a lot.
All small market owners are too cheap. Not just Nutting.
Name a player who is at their age 20 season that has broke camp with their respective team.
He isn’t breaking camp on the major league roster. There is no way, no precedent, and no reason for the Pirates to lose a year of control by having him on opening day roster.
They’ll bring him up when they’re in last while he’s crushin in Triple-A. Then, they’ll lose the year of control anyway…..
Macbeth – Ken Griffey Jr broke camp in 1989 with Seattle. He too was 19….and did just fine.
I want to clarify by stating I believe he can and should he up day 1.
Griffey is the only comp there is to my knowledge almost 40 years ago. I was born in 88, so I’d be curious if the same CBA rules with years of control and service time were in effect. On a quick read, it looks like that started in 76.
So it looks like we might be talking about 1 guy out of thousands. Based on the rarity it happens and the Pirates precedent to ensure they get an extra year of control, I would bet KG remains in the minors to start the season.
I hope I’m wrong.
Fernando Tatis Jr. Griffin’s got the chance to be that kind of hitter. Tatis was 20yrs, almost 3 months.
Tatis is also a weird comp because he was international not through draft. Not exactly a 1 to 1 but even if we counted him that is 2 so far.
Bryce Harper debuted at age 19, and went on to a 5.2 WAR rookie season.
He broke camp with the Nationals in 2013 as a 20 year old.
Harper didnt break camp. He came up late April near May almost.
Andrus also wasn’t a draftee. I should’ve specified that in my first post.
Harper’s first year, when he was 19, he indeed came up in late April.
His second year, in 2013, he broke camp with the team as a 20 year old. So, respectfully, I do NOT stand corrected. Everything I wrote is accurate, you just didn’t read it carefully enough.
I mean, sure you’re not wrong technically.
He didn’t break camp as a rookie but also played 139 games as a rookie and did well so his spot was essentially guaranteed and it was a given that he was going to break camp in the main roster for 2013.
So kind of irrelevant since he was already entrenched on the roster.
Your question was: “Name a player who is at their age 20 season that has broke camp with their respective team.”
I answered Bryce Harper. You attempted to correct me, but I pushed back and clarified that the information I gave was correct. Now your comeback is that my answer is “irrelevant?”
Why ask a question if you don’t want the answer? What a weird exchange. Okay! We’re done here. No big deal.
I mean it was implied that we are speaking about rookies. I thought that was obvious but I’ll be more specific next time haha.
No worries! I enjoyed the discussion. The written word has a way to come across as more terse than intended. Didn’t mean to sound pedantic, my bad.
Macbeth – Elvis Andrus, age 20, debuted in 2009 as The Texas Rangers opening day shortstop.
Directly replying in case you didn’t see my earlier reply on Humm’s reply.
Andrus was another international free agent.
While they meet the criteria for service time I feel they get pushed through sooner because they have faced tougher competition in international leagues compared to high school and collegiate leagues.
The number show that in this discussion with all but 1 player aged 20 or under being international free agents that break camp. Griffey is the one. The rest Chourio, Tatis, and Andrus all were IFA’s and Chourio signed an extension prior to the season which further validates the reason why they called him up because they already had him under control due to that deal.
It is a really fun discussion because look at the names we have here in this little thread. If KG hits a ceiling of any of them it is a great win for Pittsburgh.
Macbeth – It is a fun discussion. For Andrus, I have to disagree with facing better competition in Venezuela as an international free agent. He had been playing rookie ball with Atlanta since 2005 at age 16 and in affiliated ball stateside for 4 years before making his debut. However, I agree that is it more common to see this type of expedited development with international free agents than with draftees.
KG seems like a heck of a talent. I think his floor is around Elvis’ ceiling. I do not see KG breaking camp, I think they want that initial extra year.
He is certainly the biggest hitting prospect to come to Pittsburgh in a very long time. Cutch was very highly rated, but not as high as KG is.
I really loved the pick when they made it, and I think he is going to be truly exceptional. Could end up saving Ben Cherington his job.
Who cares what other teams have done? Pirates probably don’t. When they have been good it was is because of innovation. Doing things other teams don’t do.
They probably want the extra year. But if he is willing to sign a contract they probably won’t have any problem with a 19 year old making opening day. If not they have a great reason to wait until June. It’s all dependent on contract. His age and what other teams do shouldn’t and probably don’t matter. Pirates don’t do the same things as other teams. Why they have a good team despite them missing on so many early trades and draft picks.
Jackson Chourio just did it. 18 days after turning 20.
Chourio did yes, but he had already signed the extension. Clarifying again, this isn’t about KG’s ability, it is a question about controlling his eligibility.
Chourio also wasn’t drafted and is another international free agent signing.
This seems like the most logical and reasonable post
I don’t think the extension has much to do with him hitting the MLB. some sure but not a lot. I probably wouldn’t bring him up just for the lack of experience factor. I did say that about Skenes too though he did have more years under his belt pre-draft.
If he does break camp it is important to not have high expectations. Even Trout wasn’t an all star his first season. I also hope I am wrong and he does make the MLB roster out of camp and takes MLB pitching like crazy. He has the talent and seems to have the baseball mind to pull it off.
If I was Griffin, I’d only take a short 9-figure extension. Otherwise, there’ll be $ to be made in a few years…..
I think it’s all extension. Get year 7 and 8 or wait until June and get year 7 at least.
Joew – Trout was AMAZING his first full year. Trout only had 123 AB’s in a partial debut season…no one is going to be a star with less than 125 at bats.
However…At age 20, in 2012 in his first full season, he led the AL with 129 runs scored, he had 182 hits, 27 doubles, smacked 30 home runs, drove in 83 runs, led the league in steals with 49! Oh…and he hit .326, slugged .564, and finished 2nd in MVP voting. Still think he wasn’t a star in his 1st full season?
fair, yeah it was a small sample
So waiting until Griffin is 20, like Trout, and Tatis, and Andrus, is starting to sound more reasonable.
I think cherington is feeling the heat. If he has the say, the kid may make it.
6 losing seasons in a row maybe lil warm
“Never turn down your first fortune.”
Konnor could give the Pirates all they want for a price. If he shows in Spring Training, give him the good faith of starting the season with him. Let negotiations for an extension include a seventh year. That covers the service time manipulation possibility, ensures the Pirates get that value without compromising League incentives, and defines his payroll cost.
It will also set him up to be still in his 20s with a legitimate shot a signing a precedent-setting contract then in Free Agency …if he comes close to meeting expectations. If we assume the best, his value will only increase.
Pirates will be in an uncomfortable place because all of that in any configuration WILL be expensive. This little side show figures to be interesting!
Will be at least 8 years. Just wait until June get 7th year.
6 year -$100 mil contract should get it done….
Post-arb….
Pre -arb…..
More like 10 year-$180 mil. He’d take that….
Would you rather see Skenes get an extension or Konnor Griffin? Just in general as w baseball fan. I think we all know it’s gonna be only one that gets paid handsomely by the Pirates.
People were calling 93.7 being worried about skenes’s bad outing yesterday. These people are nuts. It’s his first spring game.
Oneil Cruz also should have caught the one hit he gave up and 2 of his walks wouldn’t have been last year without ABS and he missed by .025″
Triolo 2.3 war last aint bad for a part time player. 5.6 in 3 years. Solid 2nd choice till he’s ready
I think Konnor Griffin goes to the minors for 10-14 days and makes his debut in Pittsburgh on their season (or day or two after) opener. On a business standpoint, second or third games of the series against Baltimore for Griffin to debut, is huge money. I think Skenes will pitch the opener if I looked at the schedule right. Follow by Keller and potentially Chandler in game 3. Having Griffin debut in game 2 or 3, does potentially fill the stadium that whole series. Maybe a national spotlight game if they go with Griffin debut with Skenes pitching in Game 1 of the opener. Either way, it’s huge money maker if they hold off until Pittsburghs opener to debut Griffin. And other way, doesn’t have the “build up of the long awaited phenom” the Pittsburgh Pirates brass would use to get people in the stands. It worked when Skenes debut but stadium was bare afterwards. Having Skenes in game 1 and Griffin debut in game 2 or 3, has the liking of 2 sellout games. Something that hasn’t happen in over a decade and could be as far as when PNC Park opened that the Pirates had 2 sellouts in their opener series. It’s been a very long time and I think a move like this is in the cards
I’ve never been a fan of the name Connor especially Konnor with a K but hey. To each their own am I right? Let’s see what the kid can bring to the game. If im being honest I’m hoping for a career .230 hitter.
Strategically he will either make opening day or won’t play first 2 weeks. The few tickets he would sell wouldn’t come close to the value of the draft pick or extra year. They could still get the draft pick but it’s better to give him a full 2 week look and be able to send him down if he isn’t ready and get the extra year.
Yea now ur thinking
I need him to get sent down for at least a week so I can use my first overall pick to pick him in the taxi portion of our Roto league! If he makes the roster everyone else can bid on him and I won’t have the cap space to win the bidding. Auction leagues are ONLY way to go in fantasy baseball!!
The only question I would ask would be will he help the Pirates win games. In my mind that would be a big YES. He absolutely would help them. Opening Day with Skenes pitching. Sort of a no brainer imho
Yes to opening day. No to an extension. He’s already signed 6.5M at draft. Pittsburgh can’t believe sitting him in minors for 10 games to gain a year would happen. Destined to be a top 2 RoY. So he’ll have a full year service time regardless.
The next thought is keeping him in minors through the typical post Super 2 status. Imagine the grief when his numbers cant deny a call up before that threshold is passed? Then he still goes on to a top 2 RoY? It’s in Pittsburgh’s better interest to start him opening day for the RoY finish and that draft pick reward.
Note that they currently have two players on the 40 man that are legitimately SS/3B capable – Gonzales and Triolo. And I honestly think Gonzales is a stretch to call a SS since he has poor range. They’ve been trotting out various folks on the left side of the infield to have them learn the positions, and they have Alika Williams who can provide decent defense and zero bat.
My guess is they’re giving Griffin a real chance to earn his spot. How you earn a spot in spring training, when you get a handful of at bats and are largely facing backups, I don’t know, but wouldn’t be the first time the Pirates had a questionable development plan.
Every time you say “Alika Williams”, an angel loses his wings.
I keep hoping that if I say this enough, they’ll realize what a terrible plan it is and do something about it.
If it were me and that was my budget, I’d let him spend a few weeks in AAA.
The Kingery and Evan White deals probably still linger in a lot of GM’s minds, but Griffin’s floor is so much higher (and obviously ceiling as well). Very rarely does a #1 overall prospect not end up at least being decent in the big leagues.
This is the case of should he break camp with them or will he break camp with them? Without the extension, I think the pirates will manipulate the extra year time clock and leave him down, but with the extension, I do think he will make the opening day roster. As he should, regardless of contract stipulations.
I have a question:
If Griffin doesn’t make opening day, the team can’t get the extra pick even if he wins ROY.
BUT
if he DOES make opening day, and then is sent down for a time, comes back and wins ROY, does the team get the extra pick?
Or does he have to remain on the roster all season?
He doesn’t have to make opening day to get draft pick. They can send him down but it needs to count as mlb service time or not long. Basically he needs mlb service time all but 2 weeks to get draft pick. If he say gets sent down for 2 months of minors time and wins Roy pirates don’t get pick or extra year. Aka Skenes rookie year outcome.
Thank you.
So let the boy play!
Ty
And he gets 1 year service time for finishing 2nd roy but for pirates to get draft pick he needs to actually win. They can also get draft pick if he finishes top 3 mvp in pre arb years.
Yeah they didn’t make it simple. I could be mixed up or left something out.
Usually though teams going for draft pick will have player start opening day. And before 2 weeks are up they can send them down and go for services time. Theoretically you could wait almost 2 weeks and call them up and go for draft pick but it doesn’t make sense.
Some posters are saying send him to AAA for a week to 10 days. Be honest, how is that going to make a difference. It’s absurd. He starts the regular season with the pirates.
Nope but Lando Calrissian Griffin will make the team. Konnor’s step brother he never knew he had.
Unfortunately it looks like he’s going to start in the minors. They will keep him down for a few weeks. If he’s down there longer, it will show cherringtons mind boggling dumbness