The Reds officially signed free agent lefty Aroldis Chapman to a six-year deal worth $30.25MM today. Said GM Walt Jocketty: "We have to make some bold moves from time to time." The Reds got involved just before Christmas, and Jocketty said he was happy to stay under the radar. Chapman's payments will be spread out over ten years, and Jocketty noted that the contract will not significantly impact the Reds' 2010 payroll. The Reds' GM wouldn't predict when Chapman would join the Major League rotation, but wouldn't rule out the possibility of him breaking camp with the team.
Chapman, 21, defected from the Cuban national team in July and established residency in the small European nation of Andorra in September. An agency called Athletes Premier International represented Chapman along his path toward big league free agency, but he switched to the Hendricks brothers in November. Armed with a mid-90s fastball and a plus slider, Chapman generated widespread interest. The Red Sox, Marlins, Nationals, and Blue Jays reportedly made strong offers, and ESPN's Buster Olney tweeted that the Athletics finished second. The early notion that Chapman's price tag would limit bidding to large-market clubs proved false.
News of Chapman's agreement with the Reds broke yesterday via Yahoo's Jeff Passan. John Fay of the Cincinnati Enquirer and MLB.com's Mark Sheldon added details.
Tim Dierkes contributed to this post.
come on Reds. I dont even care if hes a bust I just want to see them having a pulse.
wow a shocker….if this kid pans out the reds are going have a monster rotation with what they already have and him probably 2 years away but still this could be huge for them.
Volquez, Cueto, Bailey, Chapman *shivers*
Bailey sends shivers down the backs of the AAA players he has pitched against, but has not lived been nearly as effective in the Majors…IF (and it is a HUGE if) Chapman works out Volquez, Cueto and Chapman could be a huge 1-3….until Dusty Baker blows their arms out….
At least the Reds seem to understand that given their home park they need guys with good K rates….they can’t have any pitch to defense type starters, they won’t survive there.
Bailey added a sinker the last half of this past season and was pretty lights out. I’m thinking the the kid has finally turned the corner, but we’ll see come the start of this next season.
That’s very true. I guess I’m still reminiscing of Bailey’s top prospect days.
how can you forget leake?
I don’t know… That makes it even more impressive. Good catch.
Plus, you forgot two decent innings producing arms that most teams would love to have.
Edinson Volquez is so good
Reds!
Wow…..30M’s to start at AA maybe AAA, on MLB Network it was said to be around 20 M’s not close to 30M’s…..
Reds or Mets
wow really, i doubt the mets would be involved, i wouldnt pay 30mil for this guy, he hasnt pitched a game in the majors
He’s better than any free agent pitcher left.
Based on what?
Just look at who is left. Bedard: durability issues. Sheets: didn’t pitch at all last year. Wang: Barely pitched, sucked when he did, won’t be ready till May. Piniero: One good year the last 6. Smoltz: Really not more than a 4/5th starter in the NL. Washburn: got injured last year. Not much more than a 4th starter. Pedro: Only started 9 games last year, 12 if you count the post-season.
That’s just about everyone worth looking at. Anyone better than a back-end starter has health issues.
And then there’s Chapman: A guy no one’s seen in the Majors and supposedly has character issues, not to mention the fact that he won’t help anyone with that horrible BB/9 ratio. If he signs, he’s not here to help this year, he’s here for the future. You’re basically buying a draft pick.
CUBS. This would give them the best rotation in all of the majors.
Get it done Hendry!
Please don’t comment when you don’t know about an issue. He wont be in the majors. He’s going to start in the minors at either AA or AAA. Either way, that wouldn’t give the cubs the best rotation in the majors.
Even if chapman becomes all he is cracked up to be, cubs still wouldn’t have the best rotation. That title belongs to the red sox, white sox, cardinals, and braves
uh, how bout the Giants??? Its shameful to leave them out.
After Cain, they’re nothing but garbage. I’ll agree that they have a strong 1-2. The Diamondbacks have a better overall rotation.
Oh please. Nothing but garbage? You don’t know baseball if you think J. Sanchez is garbage. He is lefty who throws in the mid-90’s with unbelievable movement and he is progressively getting better. Yeah Zito is WAY overpaid, but he is strong number four, and above average at times. And their fifth starter could very well be Madison Bumgarner, who is touted as one of the top prospects in the game.
One no-hitter followed by an average season and now your touting him a star? Zito = BP. Numbers don’t lie. 1-5 there are at least 6 teams better than the Giants, and that’s just the truth. Cold hard truth.
“He is lefty who throws in the mid-90’s with unbelievable movement and he is progressively getting better.”
It doesnt seem like I touted him as a star anywhere in there, does it? I stated the facts. He is a lefty = true. He throws in the mid-90’s = true. He has unbelievable movement = true. He is progressively getting better = true (see stats below). NO where do i ever say he is a star.
Sanchez Stats:
2008:
Season ERA: 5.01
WHIP: 1.45
K/9: 8.94
OPPONENTS BA: .257
2009:
Season ERA: 4.24
WHIP: 1.37
K/9: 9.74
OPPONENTS BA: .221
ERA Before All Star Break: 4.69
ERA After All Star Break: 3.83
Sanchez improved in almost every category and the guy strikes out more than a batter per inning.
You said: “1-5 there are at least 6 better than the Giants, and thats just the truth. cold hard truth.”
Man, you really should check stats before you say stupid things like that. The cold hard truth is that the Giants had the third best starter ERA in the MLB (3.58), the most complete games (11), the third most innings pitched (985), the most strikeouts by a longshot (894), and the best BAA (.234).
Your right on one account: numbers dont lie.
C’mon, you were drooling all over your keyboard as you were typing. You’re just using semantics, surely you can understand that reading comprehension involves something called tone. Read about it. And since you provided numbers that would of course enhance your point, I’ll give you a rotation of Lincecum, Cain and Sanchez. Good 3-man rotation. Still not in the top 6. And since were discussing about rotations, your following point is not valid:
“Man, you really should check stats before you say stupid things like that. The cold hard truth is that the Giants had the third best starter ERA in the MLB (3.58), the most complete games (11), the third most innings pitched (985), the most strikeouts by a longshot (894), and the best BAA (.234).”
If you honestly believe that Lincecum himself constitutes the best rotation in MLB, then you can have it.
“And since you provided numbers that would of course enhance your point.”
I’ve provided almost all of the major pitching statistics. THe happen to enhance my point. Its not like I picked and chose which ones backed up my point. they all did.
“I’ll give you a rotation of Lincecum, Cain and Sanchez. Good 3-man rotation. Still not in the top 6.”
OK, I’ll bite. List the six teams that have a better rotation along with each of their front three starters. There are NOT six teams that have a better front three than the Giants.
“And since were discussing about rotations, your following point is not valid.”
Actually those statistics ARE valid. I was very careful to take the statistics of ONLY STARTERS, NOT the entire pitching staff.
“If you honestly believe that Lincecum himself constitutes the best rotation in MLB, then you can have it.”
Lincecum contributes to the starting staff’s statistics just like aces on other teams contribute to their staff’s statisitics. its no different in this situation. Lincecum is absolutely part of the reason the Giants have one of the best rotations in baseball.
You have yet to provide any real evidence that there are six teams with better rotations. So far we have figured out that statistically your point is not valid in any way. So, please enlighten me. What is your reasoning behind saying that the Giants staff is not top six in the MLB?
you should also note that I never claimed the Giants have the best rotation in baseball. I just think it is ignorant and idiotic for you to say they aren’t even in the top six. Give me a break.
since when is an era of 3.46 average?
“you don’t know baseball”
“After Cain, they’re nothing but garbage”
lol you clearly don’t watch enough baseball.
You don’t know me, so I’ll just dismiss it.
Yanks have a good 1-4 too.
Yeah, they do. One of, if not, the best rotations in MLB!
lol he wouldnt even start in the majors his first season
Why is this myth still around? He is NOT ready for ML action, he will start in AA/AAA for whatever team signs him
No he will start in the ML. You dont pay someone 30MM to play in AAA, but then again your used to yankee bucks.
The average intellectual human being might not pay the guy $30MM to play in AAA, but we’re dealing with the Cincinnati Reds here.
Walt Jocketty said today that they’re hopeful he makes the club out of Spring Training, surprising everyone the way Cueto and Volquez did two years ago
No it wouldnt.
I am guessing Mets, Nationals, or Astros. Not because the Astros have the money – they don’t – but because they seem to be fans of overpaying out the wazoo.
Wow. I feel bad for Toronto fans. I thought they had this.
I say the Angels. The loss of an ace, 3rd basemen,2 relievers, and a DH they need to replenish the goods. If Toronto signed him they have a rotation for the future. With Chapman, Drabek, Romero, Morrow, and Rzepzynski.- Or how ever you spell it
Close, it’s Rzepcynski. Just think Zep-Chin-Ski, which is how it’s pronounced.
And don’t forget Stewart, Alverez (top prospects prior to Halladay trade), and Jenkins (2009 first round pick) when talking about their future rotation.
don’t forget jesse litsch, dustin mcgowan, and shaun marcum lol
watch it be Washington. Strasburg and Chapman at the top of the same rotation in a few years.
If that’s true, I don’t know whether to be happy or upset that we’d be paying him almost double of Strasburg.
(edit)
DC needs something like that. If true and both players live up to their potential, Stasburg/Chapman will rival any 1-2 punch in the majors (Big IF, but it’s an ‘era of hope’ around the capital).
i am hoping that it is the nationals even as a phillies fan it allows them to be competitive.
This can’t be true :O what can afford to make such a risky deal?
Just putting this out there, but are you sure that’s the real Passan? Only his second tweet, could just be a troll account looking for attention.
If it’s true, thats a lot of money to commit to him. I was thinking $25m would be the highest bid.
Yea I’m skeptical as well
yeah its not even on Yahoo yet, pretty sure it’d be up there because thats who he writes for a lot
Dodgers
You think the Dodgers are going to spend that much money before going to arbitration with Kemp, Eithier???
Dodgers seem HIGHLY unlikely given the arb cases they have upcoming and with the divorce. Can’t see them laying low and then doing this. That divorce is going to wreck the franchise if it gets as nasty as it seems it will. They may not turn into the Padres but they may end up trading young salaries.
I agree.
30 MM? Wow… That’s a TON of money for a guy who doesn’t have the same makeup as Stephen Strasburg… Just WOW !
You cant compare the contracts, signed in completely different situations.
I read this and immediately thought Nationals. Strange but true.
Come on NATS!! Strasburg and Chapman in a couple years would be nasty.
Nationals.
i dont really think the mets would be willing to give this guy 30 mil unless its over a couple of years
IF true Nationals hands sown
I dint think think he would get that much money to play in the minor leagues for his first year
Nationals, a few years down the road if Chapman comes close to what people are saying he can be, that’s a damn good 1 2 punch.
Detweiler, Strasburg, Zimmerman and Lannan. The Nats already have some very good arms in the system. I don’t see them signing Chapman when they will be spending big bucks to sign Harper after June.
If the Dodgers got him they will have a nice rotation next year, plus he could be ready be midseason.
Most scouts think Chapman will need at least a year in the minor leagues. All agree he’s not as close to the MLB as Strasburg, who will have at least a few months in AA and AAA to tune up. Chapman could be a September callup, I guess.
Pirates. Bout to blow your minds……not really, but so long as it’s a mystery it may as well be the Bucs for a few minutes.
Ha ha ha ha
But honestly, this twitter account seems questionable.
Anyone joining Twitter has to begin with an empty page. They all have to start somewhere.
I know they have to start somewhere. I have a Twitter account and I just think part of setting it up would be to choose a picture.
definitely
Welp, if 30 was the magic number, glad AA didn’t bite.
A National League team? This is quite a surprise. There was so much hype about him going to an American League team, especially the Blue Jays and Angels, and even the Red Sox right up until they pretty much dropped out.
This may seem dumb, but I can’t see a team that is rebuilding to step up and pay this guy 30MM dollars. Teams like the Nationals, Pirates, etc. should focus more so on drafting than shelling out 30MM dollars to a potential starter, and possible reliever.
My bet is that he signs with a team on the Eastern Coast, with a high payroll and good shot at winning a World Series. My bet is that he signs with either the Phillies or the Mets, and even as a Phillies fan, I think the Mets have the best shot to sign him. They have an inflated payroll and a couple of Latin guys that Chapman may be more willing to play with.
As a Phils fan, I hope it’s the Mets.
id guess reds unless omar surprises
reds are looking to cut payroll i doubt they go out and spend money on a guy whose not gonna be in the majors right away..
It is not the Cubs, because that would mean Hendry is taking a risk involving a young player. I would say it will be a team in the NL Central though.
If it’s NL Central and not the Cubs then who? Milwaukee already has $ trouble adding pitching for this year. St. Louis probably spent their way out of this when they signed Holliday. Reds and Pirates probably don’t have the money or the market to take a $30 million dollar chance on this guy. If Houston had enough to spend they’d likely have gone after a top tier free agent pitcher like Lackey this off season. Plus with Myers and Lyon making $10 million they probably don’t have much left to pay Chapman. The Cubs have financial issues of their own but to me they seem artificial, like ownership set a limit but that they could spend more if they wished. Not like another $10 million this year is going to keep them from making money, they’re a cash cow. IF they wanted to spend, they could.
30mil but how many years?
isnt anyone calling BS?
who is this twitter guy?
he has 2 tweets and not even a picture.
what type of credibility does this guy have?
are there any other sources?
Ya, not sure if I’ll believe this tweet
sadly, idiotic enough to be the reds.
“Left Ft. Lauderdale airport this a.m. to sign.” mmmmhhhhhhhh
do the reds even have 20-30 mill to sign anyone, not to mention just one player? imo, this guy is one of the best #2’s in the game in a few years…..
They can fit 5 million per year in. Especially if its back loaded a little.
Yeah I guess it it’s 6 years then it makes more sense, but if it’s 5/30 I think that’s an overpayment
Nationals.
To me this doesn’t make any sense. Last everybody heard the steepest deal was at $23. It would be the dumbest thing u can do to overpay that by $7 mil. i feel this isnt true but there could be an agreement at $25, possibly with the Angels.
do the mets even want this guy lol
no they were out of it a few days ago…
i hope its not the phillies….
Just had a contributor to Yahoo vouch for the twitter account’s legitimacy. He says the source who says Chapman has signed may be questionable, but that account is really Jeff Passan.
Thanks. All these people on here saying it’s fake and expecting an account to be legit by it having more tweets and a picture. It is evident, Passan just signed up recently and wants to start in the Twitter race just like all the other journalists. Everyone starts off with an empty page, they have to begin somewhere. He will certainly put up a picture as soon he gets the grasp of Twitter.
If you go to the guys twitter page, the post about Chapman, is the the accounts second post. The lack of an Avatar and lack of any effort put into the page is misleading. Since something in that particular job field would want to promote themselves.
Why would he goes out of his way to say a National League team, when this entire time, He has been labelled to go to the AL. To me this seems to be a fake post.
Of course if it is true, I’d say Nationals. But my gut is telling me this was made to give us something to post about lol.
its was the marlins
I know they said the Mets were out but I’m still hopin they signed him.
$30MM/10years might be OK.
My guess is that this is fake.
Has to be the Mets!
or the Marlins possibly.
Mets please
Yeah Mets actually make SOME sense, i’ll put my bet on them.
Cubs maybe? Perhaps this is the reason they limited payroll so much this year? If so it’d be a surprise, Hendry usually telegraphs his moves well in advance putting himself at a disadvantage. If they kept this close to the vest it would be a nice change of strategy.
If Aroldis Chapman gets $30 million, then Yuniesky Betancourt is the greatest shortstop of all time.
So assuming it’s a five year deal, there must have been some unreported bidding going on to get this thing up to 30, no way a team just jumps to 30 from 23. This whole thing has felt pretty underreported.
seriously doubt this account, but if it’s true, it wouldn’t be the Marlins. He’s leaving South Florida. I can’t see the Nats signing him if they expect to sign Harper next summer. Maybe it’s the Mets if anything.
FULL ARTICLE – Jeff Passan – not just on Twitter – check the Yahoo! Sports homepage.
First paragraph: “Cuban left-handed pitcher Aroldis Chapman, whose defection sparked a bidding war among major league teams that coveted his 100-mph fastball, agreed Sunday morning to sign for $30 million with a National League team, according to a source close the negotiations.”
it wouldnt give the cubs the best rotaion in their own division.
True. Hate to admit it but until proven otherwise St. Louis has that honor with the Cubs second. Chapman won’t be in the bigs this year anyway most likely, I’d guess at least one and probably two years in the minors before he’s ready given he has to adjust to a new league and a new country and he’s so young. If $30 million is true I’d guess it’s six years, $5 million aav with him hitting free agency at 27. Four years in the bigs if he pans out then he could make a killing on the free agent market at 27.
Well, As a Jays fan that was excited about the possiblilty of Chapman joining the stockpile of Drabek, Romero, Morrow, Cecil, etc, I would be disappointed if this were true.
Like some others, I have wondered aloud in a post that the Nats could try to do something big and try to develop a Stras/Chap 1-2….based on potential, that is silly.
Still hoping Jays 25/5…
but
Nats 30/5 looks a bit better……….
Time will tell. How long is AA on his honeymoon? LOL.
Marlins/Nats/Mets/Stros.
Marlins are out of it, they don’t want to pay him the money.
Mets and Stros both withdrew.
Nationals are the “winners”.
why would the mets want him anyway they need pitching NOW! they would be better off getting pinero then waiting till 2011 so chapman could go to the rotation
Using info from Ft Lauderdale airport departures and Jeff Passan, we can narrow it down to the Cubs, Mets, Nationals and Cardinals. Those are the cities to which he could have departed this morning on a commercial aircraft, from that airport.
(There were also flights to Oakland and Baltimore.)
Now that’s research
You only to the Nats or Mets if you dont ever want to win
when was the last time dodgers went to the world series ?… oh yeah they dont
“The Cincinnati Reds were “going after him like crazy,” according to a source, but were skeptical about landing him.”
Quote in the Passan article.
So Mets or Nationals
if the Reds get him does this open up a salary dump move where the Mets could either Arroyo or Harang and maybe Brandon Phillips..for some prospects
If this is true I’m thinking Mets or Reds
what does that mean to bryce harper next year.. i hope this will give the bucco’s a shot..!!! drafting him…
If the Nats did get him, and he is all he is hyped out to be, they will have one disgustingly good top of the rotation in a few years. Strasburg, Chapman, and Lannan? That’s a high quality 3.
Don’t believe it. But if true, the Nationals could be it. They are not reluctant to spend money.
so he starts out in either AA or AA but if he does good he will get called up?
If the Reds could move Harang or Arroyo they would have plenty to spend on Chapman.
Reds?
30M…Too much high.
“Narrowed it down: It’s an NL Central team. Cincinnati making more and more sense. Reds “going after him like crazy,” team source said.”
Passans twitter now. Oh man im getting excited.
Well, It seems as though Passon trusts this source.
Daaaaamn. Was hoping Jays. I guess the good of it is AA stuck to his guns and didn’t go bidding more just to bid. Seems like he set the pace at 23/5 (assuming accuarcy in the info posted here) and let it go after that.
Now it falls on the 9 picks in 3 rounds to find a gem!!!
Mets would be funny..Such a New York team thing to do. Price everyone else out of the market.
Dont hate cuz we know how to make money and spend it like we are gonna make it back….!!!
on twitter if you go /whois @JeffPassan it says when that twitter was created. April 2009. if that twitter was created by Jeff Passan in April on 2009 why does it only have 2 tweets, both coming today..
1st- If I’m going to start tweeting, might as well make it something important …
2nd- Cuban LHP Aroldis Chapman agrees to $30M deal with National League team, according to source. Left Ft. Lauderdale airport this a.m. to sign.
if that is infact his twitter, could it have been hacked?
that does happen
It’s also on his Yahoo article.
Passan also wrote an actual article on Yahoo! which you can go read…
I’m hoping it’s the Cubs but I’m guessing it’s the Nats with the Mets a possible second. Can’t figure out why people think it’s the Reds, this isn’t their MO.
when is the last time we were kept in the dark on a Hendry target? JimmyBoy and his crew have about the lossest lips in the game.
If Passan’s Twitter is right, it’s the Reds or Cubs.
If you are in JFK airport anytime soon, stake out the Cincinnati departure gates, because Chapman will be transferring flights there if he hasn’t already.
This is hilarious. Where did you get the belief he is one of the best defensive SS? He is one of the worst everyday players in the history of baseball
if the reds do sign him, they would be willing to trade arroyo
Or Harang, whichever one they won’t have to pay much salary on.
Non-stop Delta flight left FLL for Cincinnati at 9:20 this morning. Another source said $30 million deal is for five years.
I guess he’s a Red now
some on twitter are saying the Reds.
Um, the Reds? Didn’t they just have issues with payroll? I believe I remember a report about trying to shed some heavy contracts..
Rolen restructured clearing up a few million. They could fit in a contract if the money is allocated right.
Yeah, like I said earlier this type move doesn’t seem to fit their mo. Why would they drop $30 million on this guy when their major league team could use the money to fill holes. Maybe they’re looking to truly contend in a couple years? Doesn’t seem like they have the system in place for that. If Dusty is still there when Chapman makes it to the majors he’d have his arm in tatters before his rookie year is over!
The Reds would be a shocker but:
Volquez
Chapman
Bailey
Cueto
That’s some crazy heat for the future. You could round out the rotation with a soft tossing finesse guy just to thow the opponents off balence.
don’t forget Leake the most polished and ready
The Reds are definitely looking to 2011, when they get Volquez back to full speed, Cueto, Bailey, Leake and maybe get Chapman the 2nd half of 2011.
if you believe that twitter, 2 more tweets..
Narrowed it down: It’s an NL Central team. Cincinnati making more and more sense. Reds “going after him like crazy,” team source said.
Non-stop Delta flight left FLL for Cincinnati at 9:20 this morning. Another source said $30 million deal is for five years.
12:27pm: In a follow-up tweet, Passan narrows the mystery team down to an NL Central club, speculating that the Reds look like the best bet. Passan adds that the $30MM deal is for five years.
Someone just overpaid in a big way.
yup
So seems like it’s going to be the Reds. Shocker. Didn’t see this coming from them.
no planes scheduled to pittsburgh?
Another large Reds contract.
12:36pm: Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports confirms via Twitter that the Nationals are not the team signing Chapman.
Looks like the comment I made the other day about a mystery team (ie. NOT Red Sox, Marlins, Yankees, etc) signing him might come true.
Reds were actually mentioned couple weeks ago in interested in him. And Rosenthal a couple days ago said the Reds were hot on the trail but Jays still leader.
They may have been mentioned a couple weeks ago, but as of a couple days ago, the Reds were not being mentioned at all. At least not on this forum.
great point pageian. why would a young pitcher CHOOSE to go to a dusty baker coached team?
$$$$$$$$$$
Why else?
If he doesn’t start in the majors this year, he never pitches under Baker. Even BC is tired of Baker but is to cheap to eat the 3MM he is owed. Baker will absolutely not be back in 2011.
don’t forget Mike Leake their most polished and ready arm with Travis Wood
Its not going to be the Cubs. Meanwhile the RedBirdies just spent a grip of money, and the Drunks dont seem to have any.So,AstrosRedsPiratesPersonally I would say the Rats and Stros are more likely because Wade loves spending tons on guys and it would fit into the Pirates rebuild plan time frame while they have the money after the housecleaning they did. But if Passan says Reds, they must have been heavier in pursuit.
You forgot about J-Zimm
Passan tweets that it is indeed the Reds.
where does he say that?
reds
Brien Taylor.
It’s the REDS!!!!!
I have heard that it is the Reds, 5 years at 30 million. I kinda hope it is the Mets though.
does this guy even know…hes just giving us hints ! WTF!
I will never figure out the reds.
mystery team (in recent memory) has been Pirates or Mariners far too often. If the 30M is true, I sure hope it aint the Bucs!
It’s the Reds from everything people are saying.
if everybody knows how much(reporters) then why wont they tell us who the team is! i hope its the reds so they can trade arroyo
ya stop telling us who it ain’t and tell us who it am.. lol
If it’s the Reds, they will definitely try to trade Arroyo or Harang to free up cash.
Maybe the Marlins?
they already said its not the marlins
wow now they say its not the braves or rockies…just tell us stop giving hints!
I’m going to go out on a limb and say the Pirates, just because I want to believe they would.
Maybe thats why they did not pursue sano, and they need SP….
so i like this limb, but deal Nothington prolly is watching NFL or something
This is getting retarded just say who signed him and not who is not signing him.
Maybe they’ll go through all the NL teams that DIDN’T sign him, then leave the last team that signed him left >.<
not thebraves,marlins,rockies,national
First, how great is Olney’s job? He probably spoke to six GMs in 10 minutes. I’m jealous.
I think the Reds are looking to 2011/2012, which is what small market teams should be doing, especially teams like the Reds who see the Brewers and Cards as teams they cannot top in 2010.
I see Luis Castillo in a Reds uniform with the Mets paying 1/2 is contract.
Brandon Phillips and Bronson Aroyo at Citi Field with Pelfry or Maine going to Cincy with Castillo and others.
And who else would be going to the reds??
Nobody else from the 40 man roster. The idea is the Reds are dumping current salary.
Not Ike Davis, Thole or F-Mart but another top 10 NYM prospect.jerse
Phillips salary for 2010 is 6.75 million and castillo is for 6 million why would the Reds trade a 30-30 guy for Castillo. They would be better off keeping Phillips or they can get a better offer for him from someone else. For Arroyo if the Mets eat at least of the salary i bet the reds would not ask for much in return.
The Mets would pay half of Castillo’s contract (3mil). Aroyo is due 11mil this year and Phillips is owed 11mil for 2010 and 12mil for 2011.
3+11+11+12= 37 milion. Now can you see the logic?
And Phillips is getting 6.75 for 2010 not 11 million. Still it would be a waste for them to trade Phillips for almost nothing when you can easily lets say for example turn to Minnesota who is in need for a second basemen and get good prospects in return it would just be a very very stupid move by the Reds if they do that. Phillips is worth all that money its not like he is over priced like Arroyo now if Phillips contract was over priced then okay but other than that no.
anybody think this guy is gonna be overrated just b/c he can throw 100mph
I think he is.
completely true, and say overrated before the kid has shown anything in the majors…
overpay mostly counts after aomebody did not showed his goods in the future..
i said is gonna not is yet…….hes overpayed and has not even pitched a MLB game yet! someone said he pitches wild
He might be overrated but you have to admit that if lets say each of your respected teams signed him you would be excited.
Well he has talent. The problem is people proclaiming that he’s the second coming or that he will do great his first year. His talent is so raw, its tough to call him a great pitcher at the moment. People need to realize that he’ll need at least a year of work, if not more, in the minors to polish up his pitches.
Brown said its not the Brewers
I have just confirmed it is not the Philadelphia Athletics, the Boston Braves or the Georgia Bulldogs.
Rosterbating here but………Maybe it’s the Giants who are looking to replace Jonathan Sanchez so they can trade him to the Fish for Dan Uggla?
Just heard it was the Red Sox
Oh yeah…care to share details?
This is a shocker for sure….I thought it might reach 25 mil, but 30? That is huge money
its the reds
Reds writer on twitter says that it is the Reds. He (Chapman) was on the 9:20 delta flight from Ft. Lauderdale to Cincinnati.
As a Jays fan, I am disappointed they couldn’t get him, but if that is the money involved I can see why they steered clear-its just a little too much. If it is the Reds, good on them, I just hope it wasn’t the Yanks or Boston
I hope its the Reds. They may be wiling to trade Arroyo now(to the Mets)
Yeah, the Twitter page of Jeff Passan says”Cuban LHP Aroldis Chapman agrees to $30M deal with National League team, according to source. Left Ft. Lauderdale airport this a.m. to sign.””Non-stop Delta flight left FLL for Cincinnati at 9:20 this morning. Another source said $30 million deal is for five years.”Cant post the link because the site wont allow it, but if you paste that into Google it will probably come up
Thank god it’s not the Jay’s who got the winning bid and have to pay $6 million a year for the next 5. Sounds like Billy Koch 2.0. The red’s just got screwed….
$30M… that’s ridiculous.
overpaid
You may be right…it is a very expensive deal. But consider this, if he develops for two years at that price yes it is expensive, but if he turns into something great the remainder of the contract is potentially cheap
Wow, so much for the theory that Chapman would take less to go somewhere with a large Hispanic community. Like pretty much every athlete, he went to the team that pays the most. Can’t really blame him.
Well the Hispanic community theory was argued as one factor among many, if all other factors being more or less equal. The rumor right now looks like a major overpayment in years and money. Everything goes out the window.
giving 30 mil to a guy who never pitched in the mlb is a mistake…………..i thought he was going to get 20 not 30
“Non-stop Delta flight left FLL for Cincinnati at 9:20 this morning. Another source said $30 million deal is for five years.”
——-
Wow…I am thoroughly empressed. That’s a fans dedication right there.
sorry pirates fans……….its definatly the reds now!
brewers out
astros out
pirates out
left with cubs
cards and reds
“It’s starting to look like congrats are in line for Jeff Passan and Yahoo Sports.
Chapman’s a great sign for anyone in my opinion. But I still can’t see Dusty Baker taking him north on opening day. But, who knows. I can’t see him in the minors for long when the team’s not expected to be any higher than fourth place on paper. I’d let him learn at the ML level, myself…but no one’s given me a team!”
So he can get acclimated to a new country and culture while getting his brains bashed in on the job? Yeah, makes sense to me.
Baker will kill his arm like he did in the past with other pitchers. The best thing who can happend to Chapman is to NOT pitch for Baker…
He is 22 yrs old.
If he were a US citizen he’d be in college projected as a lottery pick if not already a minorleaguer. People seem to think he’s somehow so special that he only needs a few months in the minors before he explodes into the majors and have a Felix Hernandez type rookie season. Ridiculous.
Not saying it couldn’t happen but such projections are based on what facts? Rumors of touching 100 mph? Some scouts see him as a easy 93-94 mph, max effort upper 90s guy. How he pitched in the WBC? There was a few occasions he lost the strikezone in that tourney. He’s never pitched close to 200 ip. He’s never faced the level of competition he will in the minors or MLB. He has rumors of makeup issues a la Milton Bradley, Delmon Young, Elijah Dukes level. He has to make a cultural transition too, not insignificant. None of this is to say he can’t overcome this stuff, but it’s an argument against that it’ll just take 2-4 months before an MLB debut. At the very least it’s a lot of question marks for that amount of money
o well jays fans we tried. lets keep our heads up going into the 2010 season. thank you AA for atleast making an appropriate offer.
Strasburg got under $20MM, and he’s certainly more polished than Chapman. So Reds easily overpaid by at least $10MM. Next…Arroyo to the Mets hopefully.
and brandon phillips!! jk
Strasburg could only sign with the Nats, Chapman was essentially a free agent. Can’t really compare the deals.
also, the 20mil was just to get Strasburg, they’ll have to pay him more when he hits arb, whereas the 30 million is an out the door price, covering all 6 of his years.
How many teams would have bid more than 10 million for the nAtionals draft pick and take Stras
Stephen Strasburg get 4/15.1M for one of the BEST pitching prospects in the last 15 yrs and this guy will get 5/30M WOW what a overpay for this guy. Good for him but the Reds may just bit off to much if this guy if he isn’t a top end of the rotation guy with in 2 yrs….I guess it is better for the Reds to blow money on younger pitching than anything else but gheez this seems to me that this amount is way too much for this kid and his question marks to be the real deal…
Yes, but different market circumstances. Chapman has 10-15 teams looking and bidding for him. Strausburg only had one team to negotiate with.
very true with the market demand for young pitching but it seems abit excessive to double the amount in $$
I agree, I would not want my team to do a 5/30 with such an unknown. In todays market $6M/year can get you a pretty good player (vlad just signed for $5M).
I am not going to jump of the bangwagon now that he signed with another team. I believe he is a top prospect and should develop into a MLB starter. It sucks that the Jays couldnt land him but i am extremely happy to see management and ownership in the thick of things.
I hope they didnt back down because of money. If they were willing to spend 23 million over 5 years, i dont see a problem spending an extra 7 million (1.4 million a year). I am hoping the Jays were in it to the end and Chapman picked the Red. Kudos to Mr. Walt Jockey for landing a highly sought out commodity under the radar (if its true).
I believe AA did his due dilligence and i hope he continues to search for players like these. Keep up the good work AA.
Well, hopefully we can pry Harang or Arroyo now from the Reds
As a Jays fans I am disappointed the team didn’t sign him. I don’t see the 23 million the team offered getting used elsewhere (i.e. the draft), but it is at least encouraging that the new regime will pursue and pay up for top talent rather then targeting guys that will only simply ‘make’ the majors.
Hope Chapman plays well for the Reds (hey at least the Yanks/Mets/Red Sox didn’t get him), and I hope Baker isn’t around when he gets to the majors to destroy his career.
In support of Phillips+Aroyo to the NYM:
The Mets would pay half of Castillo’s contract (3mil). Aroyo is due 11mil this year and Phillips is owed 11mil for 2010 and 12mil for 2011.
3+11+11+12= 37 mil.
Now can you see the logic?
Castillo+Pelfry+Prospects.
Phillips is owed 6.75 mm 2010
LOL its not happening maybe Arroyo but take Phillips out of that equation.
High risk signing in my opinion but I guess small market teams occasionally have to take chances. It won’t matter if Chapman throws 200 M.P.H. if he can’t find the plate. One of the big differences between MLB hitters and the minors is the ability to lay off pitches outside of the strike zone. The Reds will have to be patient. If they rush him and he struggles. he’ll get frustrated and his characters issues may come to the fore.
a. not happening
b. where would phillips bat?
This signing is so random and lame. Yawn…
This is a risk for the Reds for a pitcher that have not pitch an inning for a major league club yet. Like any other pitcher, the risk of throwing the ball is that he will hurt his shoulder, but 30 million is too much for a pitcher that do not have any experience.
How many medocre starters and relievers (looking at you Lyon and others) get about 5-6M per season over multiple years?
My point is giving a guy 6M per year isn’t really that much when he has legit potential to be a dominant #1 starter.
The difference is that those players getting $5-6m/year in their contracts are established big leaguers. The fact is Chapman is simply a prospect who may never play a day of big league baseball.
Also, keep in mind that the team still will need to pay arbitration. So, let’s assume that he is a stud. He spends 2010 in the minors, comes up in 2011. Becomes a super two. In 2013 you are now paying him arbitration – if he’s good maybe $5m. 2014 you are paying him maybe $8m. That 5 year $30m deal is now 5 years $43m. Out of that you got 4 years of performance (one lost due to development). Average annual cost = $10m+. And that’s a best case scenario.
I bet he’s glad he changed agents. That’s one hell of a deal. Hard to tell if the Reds will regret it yet. But if I was an exec I wouldn’t lay out that kind of cash for a prospect yet to play in the majors.
“This signing is so random and lame. Yawn…”
Not nearly as random and lame as your post, Chad.
damn…pretty good rotation for the reds now…even if harang/arroyo leave (which will offer them great salary relief), they will have a high-ceiling, great potential young group of volquez, cueto, and chapman…at a great cost also…
Yah I completely agree with that. Volquez already looks pretty good, cueto looks outstanding at times and chapman just needs to throw strikes. I’m glad to see other teams in the central improving. Makes it harder for 1 or 2 teams to run off with the division.
i give it about 2-3 years until the reds are consistently above .500 team. just gotta wait for Votto to become that .300 hitter with 30 home run pop and Jay Bruce to be that 25 home run guy that bats .285 ish. this is one of the youngest and has the most potential core..second to the dodgers…maybe 3rd to the pirates.
For $6 million,the reds expect this guy to start now.You don’t offer $7 to $8 million more then the last guy to stick him in a or aa ball to get him to to learn a 2nd and 3rd pitch to go along with that 100 mph fastball.I can’t see this deal working out. Alot of guy’s had live arms and were rushed to the bigs to soon. i think guy is going to added to the list of the Koch’s and Taylors (huge arms that fell flat)…
I stand corrected. I screwed up the Phillips money. 6.75m for 2010, 11m for 2011 and 12m for 2012.
This saves the Reds 43.75 million instead of 37 million.
Reyes
Wright
Beltran
Bay
Phillips
Delgado
Frenchy
Molina
Santana
Aroyo
Maine
Perez
Smoltz
how many second baseman do you know that can bat .300, drive in 100 runs, and hit 20 home runs while playing gold glove defense? i gurantee if the reds were to make philips available, its gonna take a lot more then your proposing. Philips is a core player on the reds, i dont see why they would trade him especially sense their just a few years away from having their ballpark completely paid off so they can bump payroll up a tad bit to keep philips around.
10 years? John Fay is such a joke, although, 30 million over 10 years makes more sense than 30 million over 5 years…
THE REDS!!!!!!!!!! I DIDNT SEE THAT ONE COMING!!!!!!!
Ten year deal? Holy hell that’s crazy.
first of all….you do not see a lefty who throws 95 96 97 and Strasburg is more likely to be a bust than chapman because you see rightys who can throw 98 99 100 often and they turn out to be a bust….its hard to read a lefty throwing that high rather than a righty…..chapman’s something special……can’t wait to see him in the video game ( Mlb 10 The Show)
Must be nice to be a biased Reds fan lol. Making up any excuse to why he’s better than Strasburg. Trying to make yourself believe he’s even close to Strasburg you are only fooling yourself.
Too bad he’s a Giants fan, but a stupid one of that.
Wow…just WOW. Better than Strausburg? The thing that makes Starusburg special is not just that he throws 100mph, nut he can locate his FB and locate his secondary pitches which are also plus plus. Nobody has an idea if Chapman will find the plate early on….he may need some time.
When you really think about it, it only makes sense for the Reds to sign the Cuban.
30/10 is a horrible deal, except for Chapman if he turns to be a bust.
don’t forget the reds now will have 4 pitchers with TOR arms…Bailey, Cueto, Volquez, and Chapman along with 2 studs at AA and AAA Woods and Leake
If that rotation reaches it’s full potential, at least it’s not in the AL!
I’ve never been on either bandwagon of Chapman will be great or be a bust though I will admit bias that if he came to Boston I’d much rather believe one way than another. But for me it all comes down to this: young arm, secondary pitches are at best average, and being paid $30M. We all said Strausberg was overpaid… now this guy is being paid double. I just can’t honestly call this anything more than a highly risky investment.
Completely agree.
I think if we look at it as risk assessment. In a parallel universe where Strasburg somehow hit the FA market instead of being drafted, I would feel muuuch more comfortable signing Strasburg for 30M than an untested arm whose opinions vary greatly depending on who you ask. With Strasburg at least you have some data and track record to rely on. Secondly he legitimately works in upper 90s and hits 100 mph. How many times have we heard of a pitching prospect who reportedly hits number X, then in a real game, we see him pitching a click or two below.
The fact that scouts’ opinions vary this much should be a major warning sign. In a top tier deal of any level, it is a top tier because there is consensus. Here Aroldis is basically a Rorschack test where a ballclub seems to see what they want to see.
When guys are this young, with excellent stuff and velocity for their age, scouts are still just making educated guesses. They aren’t fortune-tellers.
Projections should be seen as the likelihood that they would be a majorleaguer of some sort, anything from an average to elite player, measured against how far away they are from the majors. Casual fans incorrectly presume that prospect projections are veritable predictions of what they will be. Sort of the same thing, but not quite. It’s more a risk assessment value thing.
When you spend this kind of money to sign a player, you’re more or less saying that you are pretty certain that this player will be an elite majorleaguer, or at least above-average. If they run into any setbacks that minimizes their effectiveness (not an insignificant concern for young pitchers under age 25), problems which may not be any fault of their own, it raises the possibility of a “bust.” I am not predicting it will sink the franchise (not likely considering baseball scale), but it won’t be a good thing.
This is how baseball franchises gamble.
A ten year deal worth around 75 million would be very interesting. It’s never been done before. Obviously Chapman would consider taking the offer for the guaranteed money. If he turns out to be a stud, he would be commanding more than 75 million his last four years of the deal. It isn’t the worst gamble.
It would be a major gamble.
Most MLB teams don’t offer pitchers deals more than 3 years, because of the high injury rate. Offhand, I can’t remember any pitcher in history getting any deal that is 10 years. That includes Hall of Fame pitchers. Johan got a massive 6 yr extension tho which is kind of close.
This is why teams end up with horrible contracts and horrible players, and also why you have so many horrible players asking for a lot more than they are worth. Cause teams are willing to pay millions for players with “signs” of being good, instead of actually letting them prove themselves in the MLB, ( where the real test is at) then offering the correct contract.
It seems that since the Reds signed him everyone now knows how big of a bust he is. Interesting how things change.
yes tunstel,
i was just ready in posting the same comments.. that also shows how many reds fans truly liked it… as a bucco i still would be thrilled if they signed him as a pirate and be happy despite the big money and maybe bad contract…
but it also looks like nobody is really interested anymore….
You are so right…When the Jays were supposedly close, Yanks, Sox and other fans could do nothing except tell us he was flawed and that not worth the money. It is a coup for the Reds to get him. I don’t know if it will work out, in fact since the Jays didn’t get him I do hope he flops, but good on the Reds for a pulling a major prize
Cards 1
Reds 1
Cubs 0
A 10-YEAR DEAL FOR A PITCHER?!? What is this hockey?? WOW!
Completley agreed and plus you know its definetly not the Cubs……….. If Hendry had signed him it would have been a 10/ 100M! lol
Even if he doesn’t pan out, I think it gives the Reds some credibility. At least they’re not sitting back and letting the big spenders grab all the foreign talent.
And if he does pan out, it would be even better (obviously).
First of all, I totally agree with the guys who were saying that everyone wants to call this a bust now that the Redlegs are the ones shelling out the cash…But this really isnt that big of an investment…If any other “big-market” team had offered him the same deal, ESPN and all these east coast idiots would be calling it a deal…But Reds fans will remember guys like Eric Milton who we paid much more per year to ride in the golfcart to and from the clubhouse…roughly $5 million a year, for a guy (most) people are saying might have the most raw talent in a left arm on earth? This is an incredible bargain…
And to the people from NY or Philly that think the Reds are going to trade you Brandon Phillips? You are wrong, we already have one hole in the infiled, and if we can get a Frazier or Cozart at short and batting 2nd in the lineup, the reds are going to contend…
BTW how much more did the cubs spend then the other central teams? and how lousy are they? Id put Volquez, Cueto, Bailey, and Chapman up against any cubbies Dempster, Lily, and Big Z tomorrow
you left out arroyo and harang, and yeah lol the cubs grossly overspend to stay in the dust of the other NL central teams. cant wait until like 3 years when guys like frazier, bailey, chapman, votto, and J.Bruce are full developed.
I think this is just great!! Just recently someone on the board said something like “no love for the pathetic Reds this season” (I’m paraphrasing) and now look! Now we don’t know – it could be that Chapman may not work out. Still, I am glad that for once a highly coveted arm went to a team that usually doesn’t even have a shot at landing one. Congratulations Reds fans!!
Agreed, I was hoping angels would sign him, but I’m glad to see a smaller market team land him.
I can understand that but I would not be surprised to watch you guys bounce back from losing Lackey – if not this year then next. I watch a lot of Angels games (why wouldn’t I?! Big fan of Soscia, Torii, (Lackey), (Figgy), Weaver, Aybar…I guess I better stop) and although you lost some of that great equation you had in the past few years, you guys have a lot of strengths to fall back on. You also have a very deep farm system, so besides Moseley, do you think you might have some in-house pitching solutions not too far away?
Moseley wasn’t offered a contract in mid Dec, so hes no longer with the Angels, so unless they sign someone like Bedard/Sheets to a 1 (2?) year deal, I think they’ll let Palmer or O’Sullivan get the 5th spot.
This coming season wil be interesting to say the least, I’m looking forward to seeing the Angels compete for the west (and beyond that) again.
Good to know about Moseley. Thanks for the update.
You gotta be proud the way the Angels win the AL West every year but with all the moves the M’s made this offseason things should REALLY get interesting. I think that to do battle with Seattle (no pun intended) will be an excellent test of what the Halos are really made of now, and if they do win the division this year it will mean more than ever before.
We have Trevor Reckling. He’s almost ready if need be.
I can see I haven’t been keeping up like I should, so this is great to know about. I’ll have to keep an eye out for him…the way I used to do with #34 (not to reopen a wound).
Thanks!
Phillips is a stud and IF the Reds moved hom I imagine the haul to include young arm(s) to add to their pile and at a least a mlb ready player that is controllable. Anything else is wishful thinking I would assume.
Hey tunstel,
I am a Jays fan and wanted him there. Is he a risk? Sure he is. But a 22 year old taht throws heat can be developed into a stud. Plan B, a dominant closer, Plan C, oh well, money spent. As a Reds fan, I would be excited by the propspect of maybe getting to see a star player develop with the other studs around him. Certainly any Reds fan sees the risk as well. The point is, if the $$ spent doesn’t handcuff hte franchise in the future, then I say enjoy the ride.
Its ~6 mil per, why is this so bad? Like others have said, if this was Boston/NYY/NYM/Philly etc, this would be considered “low risk, high reward”. This guy is raw talent and shouldn’t be rushed to the majors. The Reds won’t need him unless there are multiple injuries.
chapmans gonna be a bust lol
why because he isnt part of your team? im a cardinal fan which is a rival of the reds, but im glad that a smaller market team got him.
what ever happened to the brotherly love teams once had for eachother..now its just a business..sigh…
i think grown ice knows what he’s talking about -after all – that’s what they said to his mother when she was pregnant with him. grown ice knows “bust” – first hand. after a he’s a bust.Why do you grow ice, just put water in the freezer.
They can have him as the Reds are not going any where too soon.
If there’s any teams’ fans who understands the risk/reward gamble that a prospect is, it’s Reds fans. I am not saying that to suggest that Reds fans have had more than the normal share of “busts.” Not at all. I am just saying that it’s a fanbase that is pretty focussed and educated on its farm system, and, from having seen many pitching prospects come and go in recent memory, they know the drill.I think the reports on Aroldis have probably been pumped up. We’ve got to understand that unlike other draft-able prospects, international free agents who get this much buzz have a vested interest to put out just enough evidence of their talent to increase the bidding. There is no bidding war for a drafted prospect. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s a pitcher who should really operate in the low to mid 90s, and not the upper 90s (touching 100) that we’ve heard about. We shouldn’t ignore the fact that he lost the strikezone a few notable times in the WBC when operating up there. Even Daniel “No Control” Cabrera who dominated in the WBC operated in the upper 90s in that tournament. That being said, even if he is “just” a 22 yr old pitcher who throws an easy mid 90s fastball, he is still an excellent prospect with the potential to be an top tier starter.
Anyways Reds fans should be excited. I know I would be.
Chapman won’t hit 100 plus consistently. He will occasionally touch 96-97 at most. Worst days he will get around 92-94. Don’t believe the hype of throwing heat. He’s going to have to change that mentality if he wants to locate his pitches.
So you disagreed with me? We said the same thing.
I said to not believe the hype, and, that he probably doesn’t throw nearly as hard as rumors say he does. The only difference with what you said and me is that I think he probably throws a lot less harder than you. I don’t think he will be a 100 mph pitcher at all.
For the record, I bet he’s probably a 92-93 mph pitcher eventually who can crank it up to 96-97 if he’s ahead.
reds backloaded it just like I suspected they would.
I really like this deal for Cinci. He is either going to be a severely underpaid phenom or a slightly overpaid late inning fireballer.
As for the Reds this year I think it would be a good idea to trade away at least one of their two veterans and keep the other so you can free up some cash, get a good young player or two in return, and still have a veteran presense at the top of the rotation. Or they could trade both and just let the young guys duke it out.
They could still run out:
Cueto
Bailey
Chapman
Maloney/Lehr/Owings
and a young starter in return for Harang/Arroyo plus Volquez when he gets back
…and just let them take their lumps and develop in the bigs.
I think too much is being made of this. Not sure how much is deferred in the last 5 years but how mnay times will a small market team like the Reds have a chance to acquire someone like this? Is it risky? Of course but the reward can be a franchize maker. Even if he never becomes a true stud, the attendance on days he pitches should see a major increase. At least now the Reds have given their fans something to be excited for. Assuming the deal is, on average, $3 mil a year, teams would still lineup to try and “fix” him if he needs to be moved. This deal isn’t going to handcuff the franchize anywhere near what Bronson Arroyo and Aaron Haraang have. The annual amount due figures not to be signifigant. I think the Reds would be smart to let him start in AA and AAA before making his debut though.
i wouldnt say Harang and Arroyo have “handcuffed” the team..its the NL Central afterall..any team has a shot. say the cubs have a repeat injury season..or one of the cardinals stars goes down..then every team in the divison has a shot..you gotta keep some reliable players because your never out of contention until your mathematically eliminated. besides, if they didnt have some good players, their attendance would plummet more than it already has.
How are the reds able to afford this kid? I thought they were strapped for cash.
Well I will say, this is going to make me take interest in the Reds for a while now. Sounds like they’ve got some good young pitchers, as well as some core players (Votto, Phillips, Bruce). If they can unload some of their more expensive veterans, such as Harang, hold onto the young guys and build a strong team around them, the Reds could be scary in a couple of years.
Yeah, the Reds could be pretty dang good with a Votto/Alonso/Bruce middle of the lineup and a Chapman/Volquez/Bailey/Cueto led rotation with good arms like Leake in the minors as reinforcements should someone struggle or get hurt.
They could also hold onto Harang and Arroyo til the deadlne to allow Volquez to get healthy and Chapman to develop and take their spots later in the season.
Harang & Arroyo will be gone after 2010. Both will either be moved this yr (if CIN falls out of the race in JUL/AUG as the have the past UMPTEEN yrs)…or both will be bought out after the season. Regardless, CIN will clear $19.5M off their payroll..one way or another.
Yes that opens up funds…but for who?
IMO, It’s for a run at Webb… when he hit’s the FA market after the 2010 season.
Webbs’ a Ashland, KY native, who attended UK & was a boyhood fan of the REDS…Plus, the Reds added his old Diamondbacks pitching coach…
Looks to me like they’d have as good a shot as any.
Add Webb to a healthy Volquez, Cueto, Bailey, Leake, Chapman & Lecure…That’s Nasty SP depth!!!
You forgot about Wood. He seems to be afterthought after this deal.
And remember everyone complaining about sending Stewart to Toronto? Not hearing anything about that anymore.
Reds will still be garbage Baker has already ruined 1 Reds pitcher arm now he’s going to ruin other pitcher they got hopefully for chapman’s career baker is gone before he ends up like Wood, Prior and Volquez and probably soon to be Cueto.
hopefully Baker is gone before Chapman comes up he is on verge of ruining Volquez arm, cueto is next he’s ruined Russ Ortiz, Jason Schmidt, Kerry Wood, Mark Prior so Chapman better hope Baker long gone before he’s in majors.
and let’s not forget that Baker ruined Harang too. Chapman better hope he stays in the minors all season and that Baker is gone in 2011.
Congrats to the all the Reds fans, I was hoping to see Chapman in a Jays uniform.
im jsut hoping hes a bust now lol
Baseball America has said that Chapman instantly goes inside the top 10 of all prospects in baseball.
The wrap on Chapman sounds a lot like the wrap on Bailey 2 years ago. One pitch, lack of control. Well, Bailey’s straightening out now that he’s 23.
The Reds are doing really well with developing pitching, so what’s to say they can’t develop this young guy? Mario Soto, Volquez, Cueto, Cordero, all those guys will be able to speak Spanish with him – plus Baker and the new pitching coach from AZ speak Spanish. These are key elements to his fit in the Reds organization.
5 years, 25 mil, player option for 6th year, backloaded. Great deal. I’m sure you’ll all be agreeing in about a year and a half.
Not surprised to see all the “he’s a bust” crap now that he isn’t with “your” team … Trust me, we all know if he had signed with your team for the same deal, you would be on here defending it to the nth degree … its nice to see a small market team finally get one for once
I’m happy for all of you Reds fans. I read that the A’s were the runner up. That’s my team. I think I’m going to cry.
Who woulda predicted this?
like someone said the reds just sign a draft pick. you never know how this guy gona turn out in the majors.. this guy only seen majors hitters in world classic and only a few
It’s not that crazy to see a small market team sign a elite prospect FA. The Twins got Sano. The Yankees and BoSox are only interested in these guys if they can do it without affecting their more immediate concerns, winning now. Typically these guys are a few seasons away.
Not true, team do have limits, the Yanks sign C Gary Sanchez for 2M and he is more than 3yrs away from seeing the majors. The Sox sign I think SS Iglesias who also plays in the minors and is a few year away.
If what you wrote was true Yanks wouldn’t have Montero either.
I didn’t mean that the Yankees or Bosox don’t bid and acquire top amateurs. I am really responding to someone else who said that they were surprised to see a small-market franchise beat out the big spenders.
I believe the Yanks were never really interested and Boston made one initial offer and we didn’t hear form them again. I’m a Yankee fan a I do like to see small market teams get good international players.
The Sano to the Twins hurt me, probably just as it hurts when the Yanks sign other team players, so can’t complain
Well, if Aroldis ends up being the special breed of player who matches his hype, there’s a better than average chance he’ll find himself in the AL EAST one way or another. For better or worse, it seems to happen often enough. I remember having this same conversation right after Teixeira was drafted a ways back. Haha 😉
Again I didn’t mean to suggest that the Yankees or Red Sox DON’T invest in signing strong amateurs. I was just suggesting that, signing Non-drafted Free Agents is the one area where a small-market club doesn’t suffer the same degree of disadvantage they do in signing MLB Free Agents. From a small-market perspective, it can be argued as being the overall cheaper investment in the longrun so it’s advantageous to them.
Damn who knew. Reds would be the ones
Chapman
Volquez
Harang
Arroyo
Cueto
More like Cueto-Bailey-Harang-Arroyo-????
More like volquez-cueto-chapman-bailey
Or the fact that Volquez is rehabbing from TJ surgery & Chapman will most likely start out in the minors…Know what you’re talking about before you post.
Yeah, at least to start the year, it’s looking like
Harang
Cueto
Bailey
Arroyo
Lehr/Wood/Maloney
But it improves substantially when Volquez gets back and Chapman is ready
More like, maybe he wasn’t talking about 1/11/2010
IMHO, his proposed rotation makes no sense for any point in 2010.
The worst move that the Reds could do now is start Chapman in the big leagues. Limit his innings in the minors and only give him a cameo appearance at the end of the year.
Then again we are still talking about his manager being Dusty Baker eventually. The man who ruined the arms or Prior and Wood.
Chapman isn’t remotely MLB-ready. Most scouts I saw quoted put him at AA-level.
He will more then likely start the season in AA in Mario Soto’s hip pocket. By the time he makes it to Cincy in a year or two, my hope is that DustBag is long gone.
Where were the posters with the “sources” on this one?
Reds rotation next year:
Webb
Volquez
Cueto
Bailey
Chapman
Dominating? Reds sign Webb who wants to be closer to home with the cash saved from Harang/Arroyo’s options turned down.
Larry, who from philly said they were gonna take b phillips?? our infield is set for at least 2 years w jroll, howard, chase and (unfortunately) the 34 yr old placido polanco. True, i would have loved to hear the phils in on this deal with chapman…the money, after the contract is backloaded, is a GREAT deal even if he is a bust. but the bphillips to the phillies comment doestn make any sense…maybe to NYmets bc their infield is in flux and basically terrible outside of wright
Phillips isn’t going anywhere. Let’s all just stop that nonsense right now.
At least not until the ASB/non-waiver wire….
They will dump BP before they have pay him $11M in 2011. Period…End of story.
Why do think Walt had Frazier fast tracked to 2B????
Maybe because he realized that was the least crowded position in our system.
Phillips isn’t going anywhere. Let’s all just stop that nonsense right now.
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I think this is probably true, I only say probably because weirder things have happened. A lot of Met fans envision the Chapman signing as the key domino to fall in order to propel a Mets/Reds trade that somehow involves Brandon Phillips and it’s mostly wishful thinking.
Before the Chapman signing I was dubious the Reds were as anxious to dump salary as others thought because they restructured Rolen’s contract. Now, they might be more willing to part with Arroyo or Harang and the Mets could be a match. I’d love to see Phillips included in a deal with the Mets but if I were the Reds I wouldn’t trade him, and I don’t think they will.
A deal for Arroyo or Harang could still happen now that Chapman is a Red, and I’d still like to see that as long as the Reds’ demands aren’t outrageous.
Bold prediction, but this guy seems like a bust to me. Just because you have a gorilla arm, and some dangerous stuff, doesn’t make you a good pitcher. He will need to work hard in AA/AAA to make it but I’m betting based on his attitude that it isn’t going to happen. I hope this signing works out for you, but IMO there is plenty of talent with high upside out there that costs less than 10% of what you are gambling on this guy.
Bold prediction, but this guy seems like a bust to me. Just because you have a gorilla arm, and some dangerous stuff, doesn’t make you a good pitcher. He will need to work hard in AA/AAA to make it but I’m betting based on his attitude that it isn’t going to happen. I hope this signing works out for you, but IMO there is plenty of talent with high upside out there that costs less than 10% of what you are gambling on this guy.
Funny how non-Reds fans are hedging their bets that Chapman will be a flop. Kind of reminds me right after the Reds got Volquez from Texas he was going to be flop too. Very funny.
Washington is the only NL team seriously in the mix according to Heyman yesterday.
He was making a joke, like “If you really won the lottery, then I’d be the queen of England”.
And Benancourt is a horrible SS, just talk to some Mariner fans.
No, I’m not. Lannan is a good arm for #3 in the rotation. That’s all I’m stating.
Just so I understand …
You believe a guy with poor control, no secondary pitch, who hasn’t pitched against great competition with success, is worth every bit of his $30m?
There are other young pitchers who throw 100 mph fastball. Are they all worth $30m?
Chapman isn’t going to be an immediate MLB-level contributor, even for a team like the Pirates. He’s gotta refine his secondary pitches and get his walks under control.
He only said he believes its the Reds according to all the reports floating around
Has anyone seen him compared to Randy Johnson at that age…you can’t teach 6 foot 10 with his velocity from the left hand side. He does have decent secondary pitches but his bread and butter he throws predominantly strikes
He hasn’t built up the innings for pro ball yet. Winner or losing team or not, you can still ruin your prospects by rushing them. If your comment were true, a losing team’s best prospects would regularly be in the majors which is not the case. Just check any bottom dwelling team’s prospect lists and they regularly have their elite pitching rising more or less one rung at a time. Of course a team wants them in the majors asap but there’s basic real physical preparation these talents need to take care of to give them a chance at success. There’s a long list a guys ruining their mechanics and getting injured from being rushed.
With all this hype it’s easy to forget that he’s only 22. To keep it in perspective if he were a US citizen he’d be either in college projected as a lottery pick or already in the minors right now. What would make him so different than any other elitely talented 22 yr old here or Latin America? The Cuban factor?
You saying we should expect him to be good sometime around the age of 30?
102mph…its not like hes gonna throw 102 all the time
The kid is 21. Seriously its not like hes the age of Dice K or some others. Hes younger than majority of the Reds top prospects. I think its a safe deal especially when you dont have to give up minor leaguers to land him.
I really thought that the Blue Jays would get him though. But out of all 30 teams the Reds were the last i would think would get him. I’m so happy about this deal! The have some REALLY good pitching.
10 months of winter? my god your retarded
Again. There’s no need to defend Betancourt. He was making a joke.
So, Your saying…Since the Reds spent $1M in 2010 (on Chapman)…That’s proof CIN doesn’t need to move Phillips’s $6.75M 2010 coin?? (or his 2011..when his salary goes to $11M)????
I’m looking for him to be gone at the ASB/Non-waiver deadline…Especially if Frazier blows up on the AAA scene…or if Valaika has a rebound from 2009’s doldrums.
By the fifth year of the contract he could be worth 20 mil a season and been worth every penny when they trade him alla CC
Easy with the hate, pal. I definitely understand why you feel the way you do but there will be a lot of Cuban-Americans AND “regular” Americans rooting for him, no matter where he lands – and regardless of the politics. Remember that Aroldis also has a say, and that the MLB is a greed-driven business all around. Whether it’s prospects or proven players, not many folks are giving breaks to anybody these days. You gotta keep it all in perspective.
Didn’t backtrack at all.
I never called Toronto a small-market. I just said that under J.P. they have been a conservative spending club. That is, when a bidding war starts, the big spending clubs go all-in a la Boston or Yankees; with the Jays, they’ve mostly gone for bargain guys and stayed away from the top dogs of the Free Agent market. They increased payroll by 30M a few seasons ago, but their drafting philosophy has fit the mold of a low risk college oriented franchise for the last decade. I am not criticizing Toronto. No need to be so defensive.