Joe Strauss of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch is reporting (via Twitter) that discussions between Albert Pujols and the Cardinals about a contract extension have "evaporated" for the time being. Further negotiation will have to wait until after the 2010 season.
Nothing weighs heavier on the minds of Cards fans than the idea that the team might not be able to lock up their franchise player beyond his current deal, but this latest news shouldn't be too much of a cause for concern. Pujols has already stated that he didn't want negotiations to reach into the season, lest they become a distraction. The slugger is under team control through 2011 (the Cardinals will obviously pick up Pujols' $16MM option for 2011) so there is still plenty of time for the two sides to reach an agreement.
im callin it. 8/200. or 10/250(a-rod’s first deal).
I just don’t think the Cards will be able to keep Pujols.
You guys just can’t keep putting out numbers when it’s not even clear that the Cards have the money. Okay I think Pujols deserves 10yrs/250MM but we can’t say that because there are so many reasons why the Cardinals can’t spend that kind of money.
I say Pujols won’t be a Card after his contract is up.
A team would not give Holliday big money with a guy like Pujos on the team unless they were willing to spend on him as well. Yes, this may do terrors to their payroll in just these two guys, but I think they’ll live.
Granted, they could have signed Holliday knowing they’d give up Pujos… but if you had a choice between the two… I doubt that’s the case.
They can Pujols but they won’t be able to have any good pitching or any other good players on their roster. its not a 2 man roster its a 25 man roster. If they sign Pujols they won’t be able to compete because they won’t be able to have any pitching that can help them.
and how do you think their won’t be any pitching? lohse’s arbatross contract is gone in 2 years, thats 10million a year for a good #3 starter. Penny’s 7.5million is gone soon as well, thats a good #4starter we can get. carpenter will be gone soon and the 15million a year we pay him, 4 or 5 will go to wainwright. then their is jaime garcia, lance lynn, and shelby miller. whats the problem here?
I don’t think that’s going to happen. They will need every penny possible to sign Pujols.
I disagree. I don’t think Pujols is gonna squeeze the last dollar out of this deal like a-rod texeira, etc. Those two guys were always great but bounced around alot looking for the biggest payday (which to everyone surprise came from NY). I can see Pujols wearing a cards uni for a while.
If a while means 2 seasons then I agree.
let me rephrase……”I can see Pujols signing an extension to stay in St. Louis” Stop being a moron.
w00t 100 likes!! but anyways, whats the problem? a rotation doesn’t come from free agents. its a home grown thing that is filled with free agents. i can’t think of a single, i repeat, a single rotation that is comprised of players all gotten elsewhere.
yes, even the yankees. petitte was homegrown.
I’m just saying not only the rotation, the bullpen, injuries, signing draft picks, adressing other needs on the roster, 6 other position players, and more. There are so many reasons why the Cardinals will be in trouble if they sign Pujols.
There is no reason to think that Lynn, Miller, and Garcia will be healthy, ready, and even good. Thats like saying that the Red Sox should let Beckett, Lackey, Lester, and Bucholz walk because Pimentel, Kelly, Tazawa, and Bowden will be Nolan Ryan, Randy Johnson, Greg Maddux, and Bob Gibson.
A Major League Baseball team needs to be taking care of. If Pujols does stay with the Cards, they will not at all be able to address other needs. Rasmus will be due for a raise, they will need a right fielder. Yadi, a bullpen, and the rest of the infield.
You have absolutely no rationale to say they “will not at all be able to address other needs”. That’s ridiculous! Can the Twins afford other players now that Mauer has the big contract? Absolutely they can!
And the Twins also have a left fielder with a 120MM contract right. Come on you can’t deny this. They can’t take care of the rest of their team with these two potential huge contracts in the small market.
The Cardinals were the 4th-highest draw in baseball last year, following only the Yankees, Dodgers and Phillies, so this “small-market” bullshit is getting pretty old. They’ve been in the top 4 in sales for 5 years running, and have drawn over 3 million each year for a decade. We’ve had a competitive team for a long time — 3rd-highest number of victories in the past 10 years (behind Boston and the Yankees) and 2nd-highest number of playoff wins. To keep up this level of excellence DeWitt will be writing a big check sometime soon. Book it.
The Twins for years have been competitive and won their division with a $60 million payroll. If Pujols and Holliday are $40 million per year, that leaves, *suprise* $60 million left in the Cardinals budget. What could the Twins have done over the last ten years if they just added Pujols and Holliday to what was already a competitive team?
Just because most teams DON’T fill all their needs on a limitted budget doesn’t mean that they CAN’T. I personally think that the payroll budget goes up, but even if it doesn’t it is possible for the Cardinals to compete at $100 million in salary with Pujols and Holliday taking up $40 mil of it.
You’re normally pretty good on these boards but on this point you are reading the Cardinals wrong. I’ve said it many times — if they lose Pujols they may as well sell the club. Ticket sales will evaporate along with most fan support. Also consider that Carpenter and Lohse are signed through 2012, and Wainwright through 2013 (club options).
Thank you. I think they still have to plan on winning for the future and I’m not sure if they can still maintain the club if they have the two albatross contracts.
The Cardinals will still be able to be great without Pujols. He won’t be the first Franchise Player to leave.
i say 8/250 or 10/300 and possibly more per year. this guy is probably the best player to play baseball. he has no flaws in his game. he is crazy good.
He’s slow.
i’ve never seen someone run as fast as they can when they hit a homerun.
i have , have you heard of Adam Rosales? The kid sprints everytime he hits a homerun and always have so there is someone who does
10 years/225
oh boy here we go! Bring on the Pujols will be a (insert team name and amount here)
I know you are being sarcastic but I’m taking it seriously, so…
Orioles, Royals, Red Sox, Mariners, or Phillies 8yrs/210MM
I’m not like most Cards fans you will meet! I am a CARDINAL fan…don’t get me wrong I love Albert and I want him to stay….but if it’s in the TEAMS best interest for him to leave so be it! The only thing I have to say is we better not lose him to free agency. We have to know by this time next year wether we are going to get a deal done or not. If not we HAVE to trade him…Trading ALbert would set us up nicely for the next 6-8 years!
Now that said….I have said all along the Royals worry as much as anyone. He loves being in Missouri and that would keep him close to where he grew up and where all his foundations and everything are. Also his family wouldn’t have to move. Orioles are a very interesting option. They are my 2nd favorite team since I lived out there for a couple years. But he could really fit well with that young team.
I replied to you on your post down there.
Disagree…………….. It would be better for Pujols to leave as an FA. If Pujols goes to a big-market as a mercenary even after the Cards offer him a very lucrative offer, then frankly I don’t think anyone will be unduly upset if the Mets or something like that throw money at him. If Pujols “sells-out,” (not that I think he will sell out,) than so be it.
If he is traded, than it is basically just an admission of defeat and the fan-base will see it as such. No matter what prospects come back for Pujols, they will always be stuck with the terrible onus of being “the chumps that were traded for Pujols.” They will most likely never be able to live up to that standard. So I don’t see trading Pujols for prospects as a wise idea as no prospect should have to fill the shoes of Pujols.
Trading would basically be tantamount to a surrender and the fan-base would most likely turn against the FO. Trading Pujols might potentially retard the Cardinals for decades in the way that other teams in the past were stunned for generations after trading their franchise players(Ruth, Connie Mack, etc.)
If Pujols walks for an absolutely ridiculous offer, than at least we can say “so be it,” and console ourselves with the fact that we did not commit 300 or so million to a mercenary mentality. I’m obviously not suggesting in the slightest that Pujols is a mercenary, but I suppose his true colors will come out as the impending watershed approaches.
I’m a Cardinals fan myself and I hope that Pujols stays.
that looks about right. he wont get the ten years like everyone is speculating but the per year he will be the highest ever
isn’t this probably a good thing for the Cards? Like, will Pujols value seriously ever be higher than it is right now?
That’s a really good point…and with his recent back troubles and his elbow the way it is I would say it’s definatly in the Cards best interest to wait and see what happens over the next year-year and a half.
If Pujols is Pujols this season then waiting will just raise his price.
I don’t think his stock can go up! Basically if he hits the market you are going to have to use every free penny you have to sign him! That’s what it’s going to take right now so it can’t be any better than that!
Pujols price doesn’t go up or down.
“Whatever it takes” millions dollars over “However many he wants” years…
At the end of the day, the Cards will make him their best offer, which will be the best he will receive. The question is whether or not they can afford to keep Pujols at the salary he commands. If Pujols asks for 50 million/year 10 years (exaggeration), the Cards will give it to him, but what kind of team will they be able to put around him? Will Pujols want to play on that team? I think Albert (his agents) and the Cards already know the answers to these questions, it’s just a matter of sitting down and being as creative as they can with the contract to maximize the team’s success and long-term financial stability.
I think Pujols will ‘pull a Mauer’ and leave considerable money on the table to stay with StL his entire career, but Bill DeWitt is going to write the biggest check of his life.
I think the Red Sox will offer more money. Same with the Royals and Mariners.
Pujols’ value is highest to the Cardinals. They’ll offer him the most money.
No way he’d go to the Royals, as all he’s ever said is that he wants to win. I’m not cynical enough to believe he’s been lying his whole professional career (well since he signed his 1st big contract anyway). BoSox and Mariners could certainly make a play, but at the end of the day, they won’t offer Cards money.
Seriously, I think if Albert asked for 35 million a year, the Cards would pay it because that’s what he’s worth to the team. I don’t think any other team goes quite that high.
My point being I don’t think the Cardinals will be able to pay him since there are 24 other players to worry about and they signed Matt Holliday to that terrible contract.
Exactly, there’s TWO years left on his current contract…maybe being a Jays fan has me really worried about doing these kinds of extensions. Wells’ extension came with 1 year left on his contract, and he put up a .245/.309/.402 turd after being handed 126M. It’s just a pointless risk, if he wants to be a Card now, what would stop him from wanting to be a Card in a year/1.5 years/2 years from now? And if his mind changed, would you really want a guy on a 10 year contract who hates the team?
If its ALL about money, it’ll still be all about money in 2 years.
raise his price to what? it’s already astronomical. whats the next step, 35-40M/Y? its just not gonna happen
Yeah I understand. And trust me I don’t want to rain on your parade. But I just can’t see the Cardinals and Pujols agreeing to the deal he deserves. The Matt Holliday signing was just so bad for the Cardinals. If they either had waited for his price to go down, locked up Pujols before they signed Holliday, or chose other options, Pujols would be in a Cardinals uniform for life.
So yeah I’m taking the Royals.
really eh? I can’t see the Royals haha
I think Pujols will want to stay at home. If the Royals offer him something that he thinks he deserves, I think he will accept it.
If not, the Royals could go after Adrian Gonzalez, Ryan Howard (also a guy from the area), Prince Fielder, or Lance Berkman.
Are you killing off Billy Butler here? Also Moustakas and Hosmer, two of their best positional prospects, play at the corners. The Royal’s two most talented bats in the majors play 1B/3B and the two most talented minor league bats play 1B/3B. It just wouldn’t make any sense to go out and break the bank to upgrade one the only real offensive strength in the organization. They should be spending money on up the middle players way way before they look at 1B/3B/DH.
I think as Butler can continue progressing he will eventually be moved to DH. Hosmer so far has done absolutley nothing. Moustakas is not a 1st Baseman.
why the hell would you move a 25year old up and coming first baseman to DH. that wasn’t even his natural position in the minors. give him time to adjust. besides, its not like he is Adam Dunn or anything.
Come on Ferriman are you serious? If Albert Pujols is on the market any and/or every team wont pass by this possible once in a decade (at least) opportunity. We saw the Yankees move A-Rod to 3rd. Plus, Billy Butler is horrible defensively. The reason he is at first is so he can learn to hit Major League Pitching without sitting on the bench throughout his non-at-bats.
Think how many people that would put in the seats….It would put the Royals on the map! If they could fork out the money to be close to what else is offered I could see it happening…. But Span I really think you are selling the Cards a little short! The Holliday contract will not be that bad, especially the next 3-4 years. The deferred money brings it down to 15m a year he is making! Ownership is getting close to having the new stadium paid off and then I expect a good jump in payroll. They haven’t raised payroll since the new one was built because they are trying to pay it off to avoid all the interest. That is because they did what very few teams do and paid for their own stadium instead of having us tax payers do it! It will be good in the long run….all they need is to be able to handle about 10-15mil more per year in 2 years to be able to keep Albert and still field a great team. That shouldn’t be a problem at all
Yeah, I don’t quite get the whole ‘Cards will be broke with both Holliday and Pujols on the payroll thing’. They will still have well over 50M to use to pay for extentions and as long as they develop some cheap talent to augment their superstar core they should be just fine.
People are very cynical.
He will be a Card for life. Teams that can afford to pay him what he is “worth” don’t need him. The Yankees sign him, what do you do with Texs bloated contract? Can the Red Sox afford to add 25-30m to payroll for the next 7-10 years?
Teams that need him can’t afford him. Do you honestly think Pujols would play for KC? Play for the Orioles? And as ridiculously valuable as his 10 WAR is, he is only one guy…he isn’t going to turn a perennial loser like the Royals or Pirates into an instant contender, especially since they would devoting a MAJORITY of payroll to one player.
I think he gets a huge, but not ridiculous extension and he stays a Card. He is already making 16m, you can place whatever number you want on his value, but when it comes down to it he is one guy, and its stupid to dedicate 30m a year to just one player, even if its Albert Pujols
yeah span i can see why you won’t but here i go again trying to prove you wrong.
1) what the hell is the point of getting holliday if were gonna let pujols walk? we got holliday to be albert’s clean up hitter. what good is that if their is no albert.
2) the stadium loan is up at 2012. thats about 600million dollars finally paid off. you can bet they will raise payroll by a good 10millionish.
3) they can still field a competitive team if he is given 25million a year. you need me to break it down? ok
holliday-15million/year-2mil deffered
pujols-25million/year-say…3mil deffered
wainwright-17million/year.
molina-9millioin/year
the future is looking ok as well. Shelby miller will be cheap. Lance lynn will be cheap. Jaime garcia will be cheap. the pitching is fine.
allen craig will take over right field. rasmus isn’t going anywhere. third base will belong to freese or a FA if he tanks. not a good FA, just a stopgap like FA like Inge.
whats left? shortstop and second base. the cardinals farm is drained. depleted. horrid. but still has some decent second baseman. i like descalso if schumaker leaves but i think he’ll take a discount to stick around. SS is the only spot that worries me because of Ryan’s defense could price himself out of our budget.
i accidently click “post” before i finished my long winded essay.
so the cardinals will have about 68million locked up in core players. the padres fielded a 78win team with about 40million in TOTAL TEAM PAYROLL. the marlins won 80+ games WITH 30MILLION IN TOTAL TEAM PAYROLL.
if the cards become a 110mil payroll team, which is definitly not out of the question AT ALL, they will be the class of the Central for quite a while. their is almost 50million dollars in wiggle room here people. that is plenty if you ask me.
oh and span, what makes holliday’s deal so bad? 15million a year for a perrenial 4.5WAR player seems pretty decent to me. sure it maybe a little excess in a year or 2, but its not gonna like cripple the entire team for years to come like A-rod was to the rangers.
Yep! All things staying equal with Holliday, at $15MM per year and a rebounding economy, it’s a cheap contract in 2-3 years.
Because no other team offered close to as much as they did, they should’ve just waited Holliday out.
Remember that blank check Andre Dawson gave the Cubs back in the 80s? Well consider this in reverse.
i guess we can use joe mauer as an example if a big contract cripplies a franchise or not.
I would not be shocked to see the Cards offer not enough.
Pujols will want EVERYTHING he can get as this is his last big contract. I can see someone offering him FAR AND AWAY the most money ever given to a sports player in the US.
The Cardinals will have to bump up their payroll …which they CAN do. The season ticket holders with the best seats lose their locked-in price starting next year, so extending Albert will coincide perfectly with a “necessary” huge bump in ticket prices (even though reality is that ticket prices are only based on supply and demand). Even if Albert wants $30 million a year the Cardinals will be able to swing it.
Obviously they are going to have to make some decisions and have some cheap players at some positions, but they would be doing that regardless.
The Cardinals could probably be spending more money than they already are. As someone pointed out, they are one of the perennial highest drawing ball clubs in terms of attendance. I would assume they also have fairly lucrative radio and TV contracts.
They can spend the money if they want to.
The radio contract isn’t great, but might become great if they move from low-powered AM station KTRS back to high-powered KMOX or FM station WXOS (ESPN radio in St. Louis). The TV rights are very solid — Fox Sports Midwest is very competitive with the broadcast stations for Men and Adult ratings. Good post.
The radio contract isn’t great, but might become great if they move from low-powered AM station KTRS back to high-powered KMOX or FM station WXOS (ESPN radio in St. Louis). The TV rights are very solid — Fox Sports Midwest is very competitive with the broadcast stations for Men and Adult ratings. Good post.
I hope it works for Cards fans
1. I am a baseball fan, not just a Cardinals fan, so don’t say this is biased…
2. The Matt Holliday contract although large compared to other offers isn’t all that bad comparing it to like-size contracts, especially in a couple of years.
3. Pujols has already stated that a.) He wants to be a Cardinal for life like Musial. b.) He wants to be on a competitive team. c.) He already makes $16 Million. It isn’t like the Cardinals are adding a FA contract to the mix of $25mil+. Lets be generous and say the number is $30mil, (I think he will take a little discount to stay competitive SEE “b.)” prolly $23-$25) But if he wants $30, the Cardinals can easily pay $30 and be competitive.
4. There are a number of current options that can help the Cardinals raise the $15mil or so it would take to keep him. a.) Raise payroll. They will still be under $100 mil this year with Holliday and they haven’t raised it significantly in a decade even due to inflation, stadium and playoff revenue, and 3 million fans a year. b.) By 2012, the team has roughly $50-$60 mil in payroll coming of the books from Carpenter, Penny, Lohse, Miller, Reyes, Franklin, Ludwick, Schumaker…etc. Yes, Wainwright, Molina, Rasmus will all get raises, but again we already pay them, so it isn’t all new money. With Pujols and Holliday, that is a great core. (4 All-Stars, one potential AS; 1 possible HOF, and possibly the greatest player to ever wear a uniform.) With $40 million left to spend, I will take my chances. Especially with Miller, Lynn, and Garcia as possible internal options.
5. Have any of you posting from outside of STL ever been to Busch Stadium and witnessed the Cardinal fanbase? Pujols IS the Cardinals, like few, if any have ever been. (Kind of like everything that Jeter represents is Yankees, but Pujols is a better player on a team with less money.) There would be an out cry of HISTORIC proportions if Pujols is let go whether it be via FA or trade. More than Ozzie, more than anyone, right up there with Stan the Man. The ownership would not let that happen for $15 million. The only $15million better spent in our nation’s history was for the Louisiana Purchase…barely.
6. For all of you outside STL posters, do you know what Pujols’ personal life is like? He is from KC (high school and college, close prox. to family), he has a kid with downs syndrome in a special program in STL, he has a restaurant, he has multiple STL based charities that he has founded or gives back to, etc. STL is his home.
To sum it all up, for $15million, the Redbirds will never let him go. No reason to let a sure fire HOF (in discussion for the best ever) go just to sign another high-priced piece to replace him.
This is interesting but ridiculous conjecture from ALL of us at this point, but if I were to pontificate with Spandemonium’s certainty, I’d say that Dewitt and ownership will offer him a personal services contract that will pay him something like $18-20 million a year until he reaches the age of 62 (and can apply for Social Security, of course). I think he can get by on something like that…but I GUARANTEE that Albert WILL be a Cardinal for life!
Something tells me he’ll sign a contract before MLB institutes the HGH test. Beyond that, I see Pujols with the Cardinals & the Cardinals alone. He has no reason to leave as the Cards will be legitimate contenders in the Central for years to come.
He’s currently the best player in baseball, and should be paid accordingly. He’s entering his 30’s. He’s had hamstring problems that he’s been able to play through. He has a torn ligament in his elbow, that he has had 2 surgeries on, but not had the ligament repaired. So far, his elbow has held up. A few days ago he got a shot in his lower back because of some sort of strain, so he could play in spring training games. Yes, he’s had a shot in spring training-how’s his back going to hold up through the regular season? The injuries could be just a blip. Or they could be the beginning of the downside of his career. I’d proceed with caution here if I were the Cardinals.
If LaRussa is still in town, Pujols isn’t going anywhere.