THURSDAY, 7:50am: Blue Jays third base coach Brian Butterfield is also a finalist for the job, according to Rob Bradford of WEEI.com. Butterfield has managed in the Yankees' minor league system, but never in the major leagues. He has been on Toronto's staff for nine years.
WEDNESDAY, 12:36pm: The Blue Jays’ exhaustive search for a new manager is nearing completion and the club appears to be choosing among three American League coaches who don’t have any managerial experience in the majors. Red Sox coaches DeMarlo Hale and John Farrell and Indians coach Sandy Alomar Jr. are finalists for the Blue Jays managerial opening, according to Sean McAdam of CSNNE.com. Rob Bradford of WEEI.com confirms the list of names and says they are the three finalists to replace Cito Gaston.
The Blue Jays are expected to decide among the candidates within the week, according to McAdam and Bradford. Hale managed in the Rangers system and coached with the Red Sox for five years and Farrell has been the Red Sox pitching coach for four years. Alomar has worked as a bullpen coach and is now Cleveland’s first base coach.
Interesting.. not sure who’s the best man for the job but I’m sure AA does.
John Farrell is who I’d go with.
I agree. History in player development. Several years learning strategy and winning ways from Francona and the Sox organization. Sure to be more knowlegable on pitching management than Cito. Sounds good to me.
Few pitching coaches have become good managers….and even fewer guys with no managerial experience at ANY level have. Bud Black is the one comp…..jury is still out on him IMO.
Hope he is the guy though, as I hope the Tribe doesn’t lose Alomar. He worked so well with the Tribe catchers. Both Marson and Santana were ranked near the top in nearly all defensive metrics for catchers.
Hale is by FAR the best candidate here. Has manged in the minors successfully and been a ML coach for a number of years now in 2 organizations (Rangers and Red Sox).
2 things all managers should have: A) mangerial experience at some level, B) ML coaching experience.
Hale is the only guy with A of these 3.
If a Pitching or Bullpen coach position comes open in Boston is there any chance it would be offered to Varitek instead of a playing position? Would he accept it?
No chance the pitching coach position would be offered to Varitek. Possibly bullpen coach, but I don’t think he’d immediately move into a full-time major league coaching position next season. He’d probably rather play anyway; whether in Boston or not.
Agreed, I can see him getting a bullpen coach offer one day, but he seems pretty set on playing next year.
This post’s sources are both from Boston-area, thus the promotion of two Boston coaches – they seem to have forgotten Brian Butterfield. Everyone that has followed this story expects him to be a finalist as well.
Toronto-area sources have suggested Butterfield is going to move to Baltimore. If true, that would make him not part of this final 3.
He would move to Baltimore under Showater only if he does not get the TO gig.
This post’s sources are both from Boston-area, thus the promotion of two Boston coaches – they seem to have forgotten Brian Butterfield. Everyone that has followed this story expects him to be a finalist as well.
If they are going to keep signing young Latin players, the new manager is going to need to speak Spanish. Which would make Alomar the best fit of these three, no?
No. They need to pick who they feel will be the best manager. A coach on the manager’s staff or one of the players can translate if he has to.
or you can just teach them English.
The vast majority of Latin players understand english. They’re often uncomfortable speaking for interviews, but for the most part they can get by. Beisbol is a univeral language.
I guess I don’t get it. I keep hearing specifically about the Jays needing a manager who speaks Spanish. Meanwhile, there are plenty of other teams in the league with a number of latino players, but nowhere else is does it seem to be such a big concern that the manger speak Spanish. Exactly where is Toronto’s concern coming from?
Delusional peoplel like Greg I.
Delusional peoplel like Greg I.
based on nothing at all, i’d go with alomar
This does not bode well for Boston. Really hope from a greedy standpoint it’s not John Farrell, then he would be deserving of it also.
John Farrell is who I who pick only based on reputation, though.
jays may be nervous about introducing a new pitching mind into the coaching staff, especially given the nice job bruce walton did with the top 4 this year.
jays may be nervous about introducing a new pitching mind into the coaching staff, especially given the nice job bruce walton did with the top 4 this year.
As a Red Sox fan, I would like to see Hale and Farrell stay. However, if they do leave I wish them well.
Sorry, I apologize heartily in advance, but I really wanted to do this: Who else has noticed the Red Sox have consistently seen coaches from their staff be promoted to other clubs, while the Yankees have not seemed to have any luck other than Torre in that regard? Sorry. I don’t mean the Yankees have a bad coaching staff. I just meant it intrigues me that we hear about Red Sox bench coaches, pitching coaches, etc. get offered higher jobs all the time, while very little from NY. 😛 We’ve already seen Jed Hoyer, Brad Mills, aaannndd another I forget, move on to better and bigger things, and now two of our current coaches are finalists for another managerial position. And the Yanks have…Joe Girardi. xD
Okay. Sorry for polluting this site with Red Sox/Yankees crap. I couldn’t help myself. *sigh
Good point. Comparatively, the current Red Sox coaching staff and front office do more with less.
The Red Sox do more with less and are devout desciples of Sabermetics, so they do more with less as you say. But NY, pays their staff better than most organizations do, just as they do with their players. Coaches don’t make anywhere what the players do, so they’re more apt to stay unless it’s a managerial position thats availabe, ask Willie Randolph or Lee Mazzilli.
You are absolutely correct. Coaches have to bear the high cost of living that all New Yorkers face but lets not forget… Willie did leave when the Mets made him an offer to become their manager. In his case, Willie, as a native New Yorker, with, I believe 4-5 children attending schools in New York, jumped at the opportunity because he wouldn’t be rerquired to spend 6 months a year on the road… The vast majority of coaches in MLB want to manage (Dave Duncan, in St. Lo is the only exception who comes to mind)…and will move if an opportunity to manage presents itself..
Randolph has two daughters that are past high school and he lives in New Jersey.
Close enough..
BTW, my money is on Alomar…… His family has a long association with the Indians…
The biggest reason is probably that the Yankees don’t allow their personell to interview elsewhere while under contract.
That aside, though, isn’t Mattingly being promoted to Dodgers Manager?
Oh wow. I didn’t realize that.
That seems a bit selfish of them, the richest team not letting people interview their coaches…meh.
actually, they are only not allowed to interview with other teams, if they have a multi year deal with the yankees.
Red Sox seem to “develop” coaches, if you will, whereas the Yankees bring in experienced coaches.
For example, a few years ago the Yankees had a staff made up entirely of manager’s except the pitching coach. I believe they had Torre as manager, Mazilli as bench coach, Bowa at third, Pena at first, and Kerrigan in the bullpen.
Meanwhile the Red Sox take on people like Farrell, who was in Cleveland’s front office and new to coaching, or Bogar, who was a quality control coach with the Rays, and turn them into managing candidates. The only veteran coach they have is Tuck, and he’s out in the bullpen.
Yankees don’t care. They’ll just spend more money to make up for it.
Too bad, was really hoping Butterfield would get it. However gets it I hope they keep a lot of the current staff around – especially the bullpen and pitching coaches who have done a good job.
I think I remember reading somewhere that AA will require any new manager to keep Bruce Walton as pitching coach
Perhaps AA’s alterior motive is to pull cogs from the Red Sox Coaching wheel in hopes of derailing them…..I highly doubt this is the case, but fun to speculate 🙂
Take Alomar Jr please … There are no good Pitching Coaches Available and IDK about Bench Coaches but I assume those are kinda easy.
since STL’s duncan wants a multi year contract. if farrell gets the TOR job, could the sox throw money at duncan and get him to be the sox pitching coach?
Trust me when I say that’s my second baseball fantasy just after seeing Pujols in a Red Sox uniform in 2012. But I just don’t see either leaving St. Louis.
If LaRussa would have retired then maybe you could see Duncan in Boston, but as said, he’s not leaving St. Louis. Him and LaRussa will coach together til one or the other retires.
I don’t want a pitching coach with no managing experience to become the manager, that recipe has a long history of failure.
That being said I think today it’s important that a manager has MLB playing experience, if only for the fact that today’s players wouldn’t look at the manager and think ‘who the hell are you, do you know how much more money I have than you?’
Sad but probably true
Not sure the money thing makes sense, since even if the player has ML playing experience, he won’t likely have the kind of money players today have. Even a guy like Alomar. Salaries didn’t explode til he was in the twilight of his career.
Don’t think Joe Girardi got any of those comments….despite the fact that a number of yankees make more in 1 year than he probably did in his entire playing career.
What about Bud Black?
If players on a team had that kind of attitude about their manager, they shouldn’t be playing in the MLB. Those aren’t the kind of people you want on your team.
What about Bud Black? Guy hasn’t won anything yet.
As I said, the jury is still out on him as a manager. The collapse this year can’t be put on him (young team, shouldn’t have been their in the first place)….but we’ll see how they rebound.
He did have a team stacked with talent and a 1st place team…..and did squat with it (lost a big wild card lead to the rockies too).
Are you for real? Bud Black deserves props for doing what he did with a mediocre offense (Gonzalez not included) and working with what he had. The pitching, and his skills kept that team going.
Again, WHAT did the Padres win? Nothing. As said, they played well….but you’re ignoring the talent he had 2-3 years ago and lost still.
The pitching kept them going, agreed. He’s a good pitching coach. Managerial skills are still in question as the team choked massively down the stretch.
Again, not his fault as it’s a young team…..but if the team can’t build on this, then Black needs to be held accountable. Had this team not played this well he very likely would be on the hot seat.
managers are always overrated, not to pick on black cause i dont know him that well. but seriously, was he throwing the ball for the padres or swinging a bat?? evaluating a manager is not as simple as saying that their team was better than it should have been. a managers influence pretty much stops when he fills out the lineup card, other than making logical decisions once in a while during the game. i cant say i’ve ever seen a manager win a game with a certain decision, and no one can say that unless they have a working crystal ball.
the biggest way a manager influences a ballclub is with the intangibles: keeping guys focussed but relaxed, not pissing anyone off, and helping guys work through slumps. there is no way for the average fan to evaluate any of these things by watching the games, you have to be on the field with the team everyday.
saying that a guy is a good manager because his team played well is insane, he might have had nothing to do with it. conversely it is equally insane to beat on a manager when his team plays badly, cause he could be pulling all the right strings and still his team loses.
Are you for real? Bud Black deserves props for doing what he did with a mediocre offense (Gonzalez not included) and working with what he had. The pitching, and his skills kept that team going.
What about Bud Black? Guy hasn’t won anything yet.
As I said, the jury is still out on him as a manager. The collapse this year can’t be put on him (young team, shouldn’t have been their in the first place)….but we’ll see how they rebound.
He did have a team stacked with talent and a 1st place team…..and did squat with it (lost a big wild card lead to the rockies too).
What about Bud Black?
If players on a team had that kind of attitude about their manager, they shouldn’t be playing in the MLB. Those aren’t the kind of people you want on your team.
I think AA feels who the manager should be. I’d go with John Farrell though. He has an excellent track record, and the young pitching there would thrive, as well as the other young players. Sorry Sandy.
I think AA feels who the manager should be. I’d go with John Farrell though. He has an excellent track record, and the young pitching there would thrive, as well as the other young players. Sorry Sandy.
I’m kind of reluctant to take this report as gospel; AA has usually kept things close to the vest so far, and you wonder why it hasn’t been announced that Butter is out of the running, since many other out of the running candidates have been. But if it’s true, and you take into consideration AA’s remark about a guy who may not be quite ready, but whom they think is going to be an elite manager eventually and they might want to sign him now before any other team locks him up, you gotta think he’s talking about Alomar. There’s no doubt the guy’s a real baseball thinker, one who’s really studied the game, and who’s been praised for the catching program he started with the Mets and brought over to the Indians. Check out some of the interviews with him on YouTube: he’s a pretty impressive baseball mind. Yeah, he doesn’t have managerial experience, but he had a 20 year playing career, was a catcher, has been valued as an instructor and coach, speaks Spanish (which I don’t think is that big a deal, but it doesn’t hurt), and is an articulate and enthusiastic speaker. Listening to him talk about the game and players, there’s no comparison between him and Cito. You never heard Cito talk about the game or the players in anything but the most shop-worn cliches. Alomar will be absolutely refreshing in that regard if nothing else.If he’s the guy AA was referring to, then I hope they make the bold move and hire him.
AND, he has a name that interests casual fans in Toronto. Even if he isnt Robbie, fans will relate to him more so than Hale (for example).
Of course, that is not how you should be selecting a manager, just saying…
I’m kind of reluctant to take this report as gospel; AA has usually kept things close to the vest so far, and you wonder why it hasn’t been announced that Butter is out of the running, since many other out of the running candidates have been. But if it’s true, and you take into consideration AA’s remark about a guy who may not be quite ready, but whom they think is going to be an elite manager eventually and they might want to sign him now before any other team locks him up, you gotta think he’s talking about Alomar. There’s no doubt the guy’s a real baseball thinker, one who’s really studied the game, and who’s been praised for the catching program he started with the Mets and brought over to the Indians. Check out some of the interviews with him on YouTube: he’s a pretty impressive baseball mind. Yeah, he doesn’t have managerial experience, but he had a 20 year playing career, was a catcher, has been valued as an instructor and coach, speaks Spanish (which I don’t think is that big a deal, but it doesn’t hurt), and is an articulate and enthusiastic speaker. Listening to him talk about the game and players, there’s no comparison between him and Cito. You never heard Cito talk about the game or the players in anything but the most shop-worn cliches. Alomar will be absolutely refreshing in that regard if nothing else.If he’s the guy AA was referring to, then I hope they make the bold move and hire him.
Gotta say no to Farrell
Off the top of my head I can’t think of a pitching coach that was ever successful as a manager not to mention that Bruce Walton is already doing a great job as pitching coach. Farrell just complicates that situation.
“Off the top of my head I can’t think of a pitching coach that was ever successful as a manager”
Who was the most recent pitching coach to serve as a manager besides Bud Black??? You’re talking about just a few folks here. Larry Rothschild with the Rays, Joe Kerrigan the last half of one season with the Red Sox, Marcel Lachemann with the Angels, Ray Miller in Minnesota/Baltimore. We’re already going back pretty far in time here.
The sample size is just too small to say a pitching coach can’t make a good manager. Also, look at those manager’s situations. It’s not like they had teams expected to make the playoffs to begin with.
Remember, Tommy Lasorda and Larry Dierker were pitchers and did well as managers. Bud Black is doing well so far.
It seems like the prevailing trend over the last few years has been, for better or worse, to hire former catchers as managers. Scoscia, Brenly, Hinch, Wedge, Girardi, Tony Pena, and Bruce Bochy. And thats just what i can name from the past 8-10 years off the top of my head. Idk if that will help Alomar or not however the fact that he is a former catcher cant hurt.
I would totally agree that in MLB history, catchers have made the best managers. Add Joe Torre, Don Wakamatsu, Bob Geren, Bob Melvin to your list. Jim Leyland, Grady Little, and Joe Maddon were catchers in the minor leagues I believe.
I’m just saying we can’t fairly say pitchers can’t make good managers.
Im not saying that pitchers cant make good managers. However given the trend and track record it seems like given 2 equal canidates. one a pitcher and one a catcher.
it seems like catchers have been the prevailing choice with varying degrees of success. It all depends of each individuals philosophy. Because regardless of background for every Joe Maddon, Mike Scoscia, Joe Torre, and Bruce Bochy you get a Pena, Hinch, Wakamatsu and Brenly
How can you leave Roger Craig from that list who not only was a decent at least manager, but taught the Forkball to so many pitchers as well, turning mediocre pitchers into devastating ones along the way??
Roger Craig is probably the best pitching coach turned manager. Did win the NL in 1989.
Then again, in 1992 the Giants finished with a 72-90 record. He left…and a young Dusty Baker took over in 1993 and led the Giants to 103 wins in the last great pennant race in baseball (before the wild card destroyed playoff races).
Gotta say no to Farrell
Off the top of my head I can’t think of a pitching coach that was ever successful as a manager not to mention that Bruce Walton is already doing a great job as pitching coach. Farrell just complicates that situation.
Totally a guess based on nothing but I’ll guess Alomar.
alomar based on potential, there was already talk of him being a manager when he was still catching. let alomar grow with the team. i would hate to lose butterfield though.
edit: alomar is my choice based on the shortlist, i am still in favor of bobby valentine because i think this team is closer to competing and bobby can push a team for 2-3 before burning them out. rays are gonna retool, redsox prospects havent panned out as hoped and the next generation of prospects is a year or 2 away, yankees are gonna be the yankees, older high payroll, so besides lee they might not add anyone. orioles are a year or 2 away.
I just hope who ever does come in lets murphy and walton stay. .Which is why perhaps the shortlist lack experience, a guy like valentine would come in and clean house.
Walton did a fantastic job here, he needs to stay.
Murphy did good as well but I didn’t like when he said walks are overrated and he likes guys that produce. Sometimes, you just have to play the odd small ball and your team needs be able to take walks and put other teams in pressure situations.
You can only work with what you got. This wasnt a high obp team no matter who coached them.
gotta agree, if murphy had preached too much patience with this team, they might have been a disaster as an offence. you have to put guys in their comfort zone.
hale seems like the easy choice (most experience, etc.), so i dont think it will be him
Oh no don’t get me wrong. I totally agree with what he did this year because there is not a snowball chance this team has a good OBP with any good hitting coach but I was rather referring to future. You want your team to get on base and once Murphy gets those types of hitters, he needs to preach that.