Hopefully Mike Napoli's suitcase is still packed. Just four days after acquiring the catcher/first baseman from the Angels, the Blue Jays have sent him back to the AL West. Napoli is heading to the Rangers for Frank Francisco and cash, the teams announced.
Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports first reported the deal (on Twitter) and Evan Grant of the Dallas Morning News reports (on Twitter) that the Rangers are sending less than $1MM to Toronto.
As Rosenthal points out, Napoli will likely spell Yorvit Torrealba and Matt Treanor behind the plate and see playing time at first base. This likely means the Rangers don't have room for free agent slugger Vladimir Guerrero.
Napoli hit 26 home runs last year, reaching the 20-homer plateau for the third consecutive season. He hit .238/.316/.468 overall, with a career-high 137 strikeouts. The right-handed hitter has a .931 OPS against southpaws in his career, so he is a potential complement to Chris Davis and Mitch Moreland, two left-handed hitting first basemen who hit righties but struggle against lefties.
The Blue Jays acquired Napoli from the Angels in the deal that sent Vernon Wells to Anaheim. J.P. Arencibia and Jose Molina figure to catch regularly for the Blue Jays now that Napoli is headed to the Lone Star State.
In an odd twist, Francisco joins the same bullpen as Jason Frasor, the only other Type A free agent to accept his team's offer of arbitration this offseason. New additions Jon Rauch and Octavio Dotel join Frasor and Francisco in Alex Anthopoulos' remade bullpen.
Francisco, 31, posted a 3.76 ERA with 10.3 K/9 and 3.1 BB/9 in 52 2/3 innings for the Rangers last year. He saved 25 games in 2009 before relinquishing the closer's job to rookie Neftali Feliz in 2010.
As MLBTR's Arb Tracker shows, the midpoint for Francisco is $4.19MM and the midpoint for Napoli is $5.7MM, so the Rangers would have been taking on payroll even if they did not send cash to Toronto.
What the heck?
Seems like out of nowhere but apparently not all of us were blind-sided. I was just reading this on the “Blue Jay Hunter” this morning:
With the Silent Assassin as the General Manager, there’s always a chance Mike Napoli gets dealt before Opening Day anyway….
Then suddenly – BOOM! – by afternoon it’s a reality!
(the Napoli post is from yesterday but still, it just feels really weird).
No one can stop the Double A Train!!
2nd flip of the bird to the Angels. Naps is gonna be a beast in Texas! HRs away!
Damn my Angels!
pretty much my thoughts…i didnt want to get rid of him in the first place…he can hit 30 homers a season easy…if theres a catcher we should have gotten rid of it was mathis….
now we get to face him in our own league…
although i dont think ill be flipping off the angels…more like out buddy regains..what a guy eh? 🙂
Is this what happens when interns become GMs?
A lesson in how to get fired for general managers. I hope it’s coming.
you and me both pal
Hope not….Anthopolous was the intern at one point….
No, this is what happens when morons become GM’s.
Harsh, but that trade was a really bad decision. I’m not exactly sure if it was the GM’s decision or perhaps ownership demanded this trade but someone needs to get the blame.
Going to be a lot of pissed Angels fans…
my hair is gonna fall out before spring trainning is over.
What Angel fans …
We’ve all decided to either adopt other teams (until our team gets a clue) or simply boycott baseball because it’s too painful to watch.
HAve fun adopting another team, Angels don’t need any bandwagoners. I guess Reagins is just trying to weed out all the fake angel fans by doing all these lousy trades. NOW is when he starts managing a professional baseball team.
Seriously though, I don’t know why u would call yourself a fan of an organization after if you’re going to quit on them after just a few boneheaded decisions by one person. Go ahead and jump on another bandwagon, and bring your fellow so-called angel “fans” with you. Us real fans will stand by our Halos even if they finish with 100 losses.
LOL – real fans …
I saw Jim Abbott pitch in the Big A. Had my heart ripped out when Donnie Moore met Dave Henderson. I’ve been there through the horrid (Kent Bottenfield and Adam Kennedy for Jim Edmonds), the rough (Mo Vaughn), and the downright putrid (seriously considering the exercise of Garret Anderson’s $13m+ option in 2009). I’ve seen ownership move between Autry to Disney to Moreno. I don’t need a lecture about being a good fan. And I’m certainly anything but a bandwagoner.
However, I won’t support an organization that makes stupid decisions. My endorsement for the direction of the team comes in the form of my financial support for the team. No way will I endorse or support this team until drastic changes are made. True fans aren’t idiots. They don’t just take bad decisions and say shucks. They get pissed about it and let ownership know. Standing and supporting a team with 100 losses and $150m payroll is lunacy in my mind.
Offending you was not the purpose of my comment, so I hope it doesn’t come across to you as that way. But I stand by what I said when I question the loyalty of a fan who ditches a team because it is going through a rough patch. Through your accounts, you actually did endure many difficult season that, since I am still a teenager, I have never witnessed first-hand, even though I have been an Angel fan since I could walk and talk.
All these comments by Angel “fans” who are truly bandwagoners about how the Angels are going to suck next year, so they are not going to be fans anymore. I banded you with these group of “fans” because to me, your comment about quitting on the Angels seems very bandwagon-like to me. I believe tru fans stick by their team through bad seasons AND bad ownership (Cubs fans comes to mind). But you may have a different intrepatation of bandwagon, and I respect that.
Also I am definately NOT saying “shucks” to Reagins decisions. Why in the world would I want a team that I love and support to sink to mediocrity? It’s even more painful when I think about the numerous opportunities we had to vastly improve our team. But I’m still going to stand by the Angels, even if this season is a disaster, and after hearing about your experiences, I hope the Angel fan in you will stand by the Halos too.
Wow, if this goes through, Toronto could have a killer bullpen. And AA is the man, seriously.
Also, Vladdy to Toronto, anybody?
Amazing! Vlad will sign in Toronto now on a $2M DH contract, and basically Toronto gets Francisco AND Vlad for the price that Texas will pay for Napoli.
Damn Blue Jays…you are starting to pull trades off like Jackie Z in Seattle!
Congrats!
Jack Z the guy with the terrible Seattle team?
Not every GM inherits an ideal financial situation. However, I don’t blame you for this comment, your limited perspective is likely a byproduct of being a Yankee fan.
The guy we got Morrow from?
how is Vlad’s defense behind the plate?
You’ve got to think that to move someone like Napoli who can play 1B and catch that they would have to be bringing in someone do DH or play 1B. Vlad is definitely an option to DH now that he doesn’t have to worry about the turf!
I mean, the Jays already have Encarnation who can do 1B/3B, so Toronto can sign Vlad to be the everyday DH, and they can use Encarnation to platoon with Lind a bit (Lind doesn’t hit lefties well at all, and Encarnation hits them better than he hits righties). They could also use Encarnation at third and shift Bautista to left on days when Rivera needs a break.
Vlad still needs to run on the turf on the basepaths – Rogers Centre has those stupid cutouts still.
ok maybe the first head scratcher move from AA
trading Marcum for Lawrie straight up was more then a head scratcher.. it was downright idiotic..
Overall I think AA has done well, the Wells deal was phenomenal, but the Marcum deal was ridiculous and I dont like this move either
how was it ridiculous?
Marcum is a solid SP with a nice contract.. They traded him straight up for a 2B prospect when they have Aaron Hill..
Aside from the fact that Lawrie is the most arrogant prospect in years, why trade a cost controlled pitcher for 1 good but not great prospect.
Lawrie will fizzle out i guarantee you..
1) Lawrie is a hitting prospect who just happened to be at 2B in the Brewers system. He’s already said he’s working out at 3B.
2) Marcum was a completely superfluous player on the Blue Jays. He struggled against the big boys of the East and they have tons of pitching depth.
3) Why would we care about your guarantee?
4) please refer again to #3
two days before the Marcum trade the Jays approached Marcum about a contract extension. I don’t know what come of that, but I assume because Marcum was then traded 2 days later that a contract extension was unlikely, and the Jays got something great for the future.
wow a guarentee about a prospect? Considering i guarantee you have no clue what your talking about no one should listen to you. Marcum is a decent solid pitching nothing great nothing bad. He wont single handidly win you games but he wont lose you games either. And yeah they got a very good 2ndbase prospect who is only 21 already made it to AAA in 2 seasons(pretty damn fast if you consider how loing it usually takes) and his slash line in AA(edit thanks guys i was reading one screen and typing here too fast) last season .285/.346/.449 thats an amazing line for a 2nd basemen. and not to mention he stole 30 bases in AA(edit from AAA again thanks guys) last season.
yes they already have Hill but who is to say hills options are picked up? whos to say he isnt traded? and whos to say he or lawerie dont change positions(to 3rd to move bats to right or even to first to move lind to DH) they got a top 50 prospect(says fangraphs) for a guy who had TJ surgery
EDIT: Not to mention according to fangraphs lawrie was the brew crews #2 prospect, and actually their #1 considering escobar is in the majors already…so the blue jays traded their 3rd pitcher for a #1 prospect thats a win no matter what
AA last year . Every thing else is nails
AA not AAA, but still he did well there for a 20-year old
why would you even listen or comprehend a guy whose name is “GMwannabe” He doesn’t know what his talking about. One thing I’ll Guarantee for everyone! I guarantee AA doesn’t listen to “fans” like him and JP probably did!
will you still say that if Lawrie becomes an allstar?
not saying he will, but its too early to judge
GM wannabe, you have a lot to learn.. The Marcum trade, while not spectacular.. was a very good deal for the Jays, because they dealt from strength and acquired premium talent
I have a lot to learn? Marcum was the ace fo the staff and they didnt even get a package of prospects for him.. You can imagine Lawrie becoming dan Uggla all you want but chances are he wont be close..
you dont trade good, cost controlled pitching for prospects, especially in the AL East
How was marcum the ace of the staff? When last year he was our 3rd best pitcher and struggled against patient deep lineups.. which so happens that our division has 3 of them..
Lawrie is a stud prospect, youngest kid in AA last year and still had the most total bases.
Dude, don’t argue with the guy. His name says it all.
Being an ace for a staff doesn’t mean he is an ace. In fact he is not. He is a #3 starter on a contender and Jays took quality instead of quantity. They could have received a couple of good prospects but they wouldn’t be as good as Marcum and no team would give up bluechip ++ for a player who just pitched well after a surgery and his delivery is scary.
*Edited
Dude didn’t want to extend at any form of reasonable price and his cost control ended before we were expected to really contend.
Say what you want about Lawrie being a douche, but he was their #1 prospect for a reason. Not like he’d be the first @$$hole elite athlete.
is Marcum the ace of the Brewers?
no, he is their #3.
you can imagine marcum being the next halladay bu the chances are he wont….lawrie was the teams #1 prospect…….
consider this when trading a pitch of marcums caliber(AND INJURY HISTORY) a GM will either take one great prospect(exactly what AA did and got the teams #1 prospect at the time) or they will get a few mid level guys….
considering yes marcum was a good pitcher but not an ACE at all and not a great pitcher they got an amazing return for it just because you want every trade of a blue jays pitcher to be like they are trading halladay all over again does not make it wrong….it was a great trade for both teams, both trading from positions of depth, and maybe the brew crew lost this only time will tell but from the looks of bret he will go one to be very very good
“you dont trade good, cost controlled pitching for prospects, especially in the AL East”
THATS EXACTLY WHAT YOU DO!!!!!!!!!!!
1. Marcum is going to be cost controlled for 2 more years only before he will become a FA
2. Marcum is 28, Lawrie is 20, the Jays gain 8 yrs in age, and 4 years of MLB service time
3. Marcum at times had a tried/dead arm in 09, probably due to TJ. Struggled mightily against the heavyweights of the AL East
4. The front 3 of the Jays starting rotation are Romero, Morrow and Drabek. Marcum is at best a 4th starter in 2012
I do agree that the Jays overpaid slightly for Lawrie but good hitting prospect are very tough to find. Lawrie may very well flame out just like any top prospect, but the potential is certainly high enough for AA to take a chance on him.
That’s why most experienced GM will go for both quality and quantity in trading for prospect as it is so damned hard to predict who will make it and who will not
Cecil > Drabek for 2011
in terms of spot yes, to break up morrow and drabek..but in terms of performance..who knows
“4. The front 3 of the Jays starting rotation are Romero, Morrow and Drabek. Marcum is at best a 4th starter in 2012”
Cecil definitely cracks the front 3 before Drabek. Maybe by 2012 this will have changed, but it’s too early to speculate. Its also hard to assume that Marcum would be their 4th best starter by 2012 considering the only other pitcher as effective as Marcum last year was Romero. I do like this trade by the Jays, but lets not sell Marcum short…
Marcum is a control pitcher; it won’t take long for the ultra-patient heavy hitters in the AL East to figure out his change-up. You need stuff to pitch in the brutal AL East. That is why I think both Marcum and Cecil will not be in the top 3 by 2012. True that it may not be Drabek who will crack the front 3, it could be someone like Stewart or one of the young starter that they draft in 2010… but this trade is great for everyone involved, the brewer, the jays and marcum himself. He could have easily pitched a couple more productive years in the NL Central than if he stays in the AL East
when did rickey romero change his name to marcum?…..ohhhhh your convinced marcum was our ace….i see
What if you have six good starters and you have a chance to pick up an elite level prospect by trading a starter you won’t be able to extend? AA could have gotten a package of prospects in return for Marcum, but none of them would have been as good as Lawrie.
The Rays were in a similar situation with Matt Garza. Six starters, one of them had to go. So I guess you do trade good, cost controlled pitching for prospects when you are in the AL East.
Does that mean the Rays lost the Garza trade?
Marcum may have been the ace of the jays staff last year, but he isnt and will never be an ace quality pitcher. Hes a solid 2 or 3 starter. they made the trade to get better for the long run and lawrie fills that. Lawrie will likely be moved to 3rd and if that doesnt work out than the outfield. The jays just cant keep holding on to players that JUST get the job done, they need to take some risks. I think alot of baseball minds feel that this was a good trade.
I thought trading Brett Wallace for Anthony Gose was the worse
lol really? Houston was looking for 1B help this offseason.. nuf said
i seriously doubt that’s Wallace’s actual talent. Not saying he’ll mash, but he’ll be decent
I like Lind better.
His ceiling is lyle overbay sans the defense..
While he does have talent, the fact that he is positionally challenged will hold back his career
Lyle Overbay was pretty darn good before coming to Toronto
for 1 year yes
3 year avg (2004 – 2006) over 162 games:
296/375/479 … 120 OPS+ … 84 runs / 46 Dbls / 20 HRs / 86 RBIs. Averaged 2.5 WAR.
Not a bad line.
Of course…
The former doubles champ…no baseball video game or real life commentator ever lets us forget that miraculous 2004 statistic.
I think what John P was trying to say was why would any give up a power bat infielder for a light hitting outfielder.
the only reason i questioned this trade was wells big contract was hard to get rid of and gose would become the cf of the future which would block him and at that point we had no 1b or 3b of the future. Now there is room for gose and lawrie become the future at 3rd… with all the money saved i hope we go out and get prince fielder at 1b or a legit star. i realize getting pujols in toronto would be extremely hard, but i could see the prince here.
Relax Blue Jay fans…you have one of the TOP 4 farm systems in MLB! And NOW a sub-$60M payroll in 2011.
Enjoy your future is looking indeed BRIGHT getting rid of your 2 albatross contracts the past 2 offseason!!!
I think our farm system was very underrated going into last year. baseball america had us at 30th i believe or right aground there. Maybe they had us rated so week because are top prospects were major league ready? I mean snider, arencebia, cecil, romero, rycepski, and to an extent, hill and lind are all just out of the system. Our system is def one of the best in baseball now with gose, drabek, lawrie, the cuban ss, stewart and others
I’m personally very high on Marcum. I think he’s a highly underrated pitcher and could easily end up being the Brewers’ #1 pitcher.
That said, I’m fine with the trade given a) the Jays aren’t contending next year; b) the talent that was returned; c) Marcum probably didn’t want to extend.
I think next year some people will call the trade a win for the Brewers, but hopefully Lawrie develops into first-rate talent and five years from now it ends up as a win for the Jays.
I think he’s a highly underrated pitcher and could easily end up being the Brewers’ #1 pitcher.
does Zack Grienke’s arm fall off in your little scenario??
i lvoe marcum but there is no way he is an ace on a good team. i don’t even see him as a 2. I think he’s a solid 3 or 4. I will miss him tho
Yeah….not seeing this one as much, but whatever.
I would have thought he could get more than Francisco, who’s nothing special.
Yeah, he should’ve at least been able to get Vernon Wells for Mike Napoli.
and make the Angels pay for Wells!
10.3k/9. Not too bad at all… Plus cash… I think they did fine here.
Um, ok.
AA has preached the last 2 days in interviews about how having Napoli gives Lind insurance at 1st Arencibia insurance at C and a DH on other days.. then he trades him for a reliever …
after signing rauch & dotel and acquiring Villanueva..
molina gives them ins at C, EE is the ins at 1st and DH so trading napoli actually makes sense also depending on what they do with rivera he is 1st base ins also
EE isn’t insurance for anyone, he needs insurance (or a platoon partner) if anything..
and if Arencibia struggles at any facet of his game, Molina, offensively is not a good solution
no but defensivly he is a decent catcher…plus there is always the older molina out there still maybe he might want to play with his brother again
EE is actually decent insurance at 1st since most of his errors at 3rd were throwing, he won’t be doing that as much. Plus he actually has a plus glove. If he can stay a bit consistent at the plate, then he might be a pretty decent 1 year plug.
Molina is not a very good offensive catcher, but he makes that up for his D. There’s always the factor that the jays are not really competing next year. Even if JP struggles and you let Molina take over, it doesn’t really affect him in the future. Next year is about giving him playing time, that’s fine, it allows him to struggle and work to get better for when the jays are competing. In fact, if the jays lose due to 1st year struggles, they get a higher pick in the draft. I think it comes down to the fact that the jays are just using EE and Molina as backups/one year plugs untill they are ready to compete in 2012/2013.
Maybe Frasor is getting traded elsewhere? Way too many righties in the pen.
This is what I was thinking. There basically HAS to be another move, right?
cubs wanted him apparently
FRASOR FOR CASTRO
I approve of this trade
The Castro that plays short stop? Bwahahaha yeah right. And I don’t give an eff about either of these teams.
he was clearly joking
Oh it’s tough to tell with some of the clowns on here… (in other words, no, it wasn’t clear)
It was clearly sarcastic. Verbal irony, if you will. Hendry is an idiot, but nobody would trade their very young, very high ceiling shortstop of the future for a 33 year old reliever who would rather accept arbitration than test the free agent market. And that’s why it was funny.
Nobody would trade a valuable catching asset for an aging outfielder signed to one of the worst contracts in baseball history.
Castro for Francisco is more probable than Napoli for Wells.
One GM makes an incredibly stupid move and all baseball logic goes out the window. I guess sarcasm is off the table forever. Thanks a lot, Tony Reagins.
As asinine a trade as it was, it was essentially a team swapping one giant, horrible contract for two less horrible but still undesirable contracts. Don’t forget the Jays are on the hook for Juan Rivera as well, a $5.25 million outfielder who OPSed .721 last year.
Castro for Francosco would be a young, cost controlled possible future superstar shortstop for one year of an overpaid, inconsistent relief pitcher.
If you use the analysis that was suggested on Fangraphs today the Angels lost essentially $50m+ worth of value in that trade (difference between Wells’ expected WAR and his contract + the off-set of value in Napoli/Rivera).
Meanwhile, the Cubs will pay Castro a pre-arb salary for next year. Then they go into arb (if he ends up being a super 2) for the next 4 years (or arb for 3 years if he doesn’t qualify as a super 2). I have a hard time believing that Castro’s WAR value for the next 5 years offset against what he will earn through arb will result in a gap greater than $50m.
So, to address your point, trading Castro for Francisco would be LESS damaging to an organization than the Wells / Napoli deal (from a financial perspective). Obviously it would be a boneheaded decision but at least there is a precedent for making a mistake of such proportions.
It might be less damaging, but it would never happen.
You’re funny…
yah thats my guess.. but what would we get back for frasor?
then again whenever i think something AA does the opposite
So I’ll wait for the next post
Jays sign Jason Frasor to a 3 year deal worth 13 Million
Haha no chance of that happening but I could see him getting traded an OF who could play CF. Obviously it won’t be a good starter or anything but perhaps someone who could be fill in.
I also wouldn’t be surprised if Napoli told AA he wants to play catcher instead of full-time DH. He’ll get that chance in Texas but he wouldn’t get that here.
your second point does make sense
maybe AA can trade Frasor to the Angels, afterall, he now has a new best friend in Reagins lol
Frasor for Trout!
Frasor for Tallet!
no joke, i would do this deal.
we have a gazillion RHRP, and Tallet destroys LHB
bahahaha
Yeah, but the Cardinals are also quite a bit stronger on the RH side of their bullpen, so they wouldn’t do it.
For Wells, and the Angels pick up 50mil of his contract.
Actually the EE signing is trying to turn him into a draft pick. EE was close to being a type B free agent but his fielding percentage brought him down in the 2B/3B/SS category. AA brought him back into the mix on a very cheap deal as a 1B/DH because fielding percentage does not come into consideration when determining the status (A or B) of a free agent in the 1B/DH/OF category.
In the end it is a risk that he will net the Jays a draft pick next year. If he continues to hit like he did last year then AA will get another pick (likely a type B). If not it was worth the risk.
Fransico was a type A guy this off-season but accepted his arb, same with Frasor. With another good season they could be a type A free agent again, and the Jays get four picks as a product of them. Napoli was a Type A player in the off-season as well.
Rauch, Dotel, Villanueva, and Camp finished the season as type B players. They can net the Jays a sandwich pick if they continue to produce at the rate they did last season. AA targetted Dotel, Rauch and Dotel for that reason as well as having a strong pen for the young starters.
EE and Molina finished a few spots out of type B consideration. Letting Napoli go gives Molina and EE a chance to become a type B FA with more playing time (Napoli would play EE and Molina’s positions at 1B/C/DH). Factor in Fransico’s already type A status the Jays can net 4 draft picks as opposed to 2 if Napoli stays at a type A status (which is likely).
Fransico, EE, Molina > Napoli
4 potential draft picks (3 possible sandwich picks and a possibly 1st) > 2 draft picks (1 sandwich pick and a possibly first)
AA is a smart guy!
lol i totally agree but i do like the trade
Napoli will hit 40 bombs in TX
If he gets 650 PA as the DH maybe… that OBP is pretty crappy though.
Napoli will be a full time player for the rangers. they need that right handed power bat in there to balance is out…he will split time between C/DH and 1st getting most of his at bats at C but he will for sure be a full time player
His OBP is just fine. Last year sucked but historically Napoli is a typical 3 outcome hitter. K, BB, or HR.
Huh?
Tony Reagins = Worst GM ever!
hes got to be getting fired soon…
You young guys forget Buzi Bavasi. You know, the guy who didn’t want to pay Nolan Ryan $1M? I think his greatest quote was “for a million bucks, I can get two guys to go 8-6.” (in reference to Ryan’s 16-12 record the previous season)
Now that guy was a bad GM. Reagins must be making a run for title, though
hah great observation 🙂
One of the LA guys… he or “Mr. Veteran Presence Guy” Ned.
I 2nd that…but Bavasi is pretty tough to beat!!!
That Wells trade is carrer suicide. He should take notes from AA, who is quickly becoming one of the top GM’s in all of MLB
Well at the very least, it clears some more space for Arencibia….
Napoli will rake in Arlington.
I don’t get this one at all. Napoli was a great fit with the Jays, and this likely now means that Encarnacion is back as the DH. Unless the Jays are going to go and grab Vlad Guerrero for what would likely be a very cheap deal at this point.
Jays bullpen is overflowing now too, especially with righties. Francisco, Dotel, Rauch, Frasor, Camp, Villaneuva, Jansenn all righties, then you add in David Purcey and potentially Jesse Carlson, not to mention Josh Roenicke.
smells like a trade.. you have to imagine Jfras is on his way out
all this means is they could now swing a trade for either a DH, 1stbasemen or 3rdbasemen(moving joey bats back to right) with all their BP guys…and you dont want rauch or dotel closing at least fransisco is a decent closer this is a good move for both teams
ohh, trade for a 3b…I like that idea.
Which kills the versatility the Jays gained with Napoli…I really don’t like this move.
Agreed.
Best.Name.Ever.
Stopgaps at first til Votto is available?
Too bad….Napoli was a great Blue Jay!
i dont know man… slash line of .00/.000/.000 thats not that great..
But as a Blue Jay he never made an error. Hell, he never even made an out!
I think the Blue Jays will retire his number!!! True Class Act, and Great in the Club House!!!
Okay okay, it is safe to say he set some records in Toronto.
this is very very true his UZR must be huge!
perfect fielding % though
thats what im saying he will go down in history as the blue jays best defensive catcher tired with olivo
actually, his fielding is 0, so he’s technically the WORST ever.
It’s the same slash line Miguel Olivo put up for them, and he netted a supplemental pick. 🙂
He was even better than Michael Taylor.
What has happened to Michael Taylor? I followed his progress a bit when he was in the Phillies farm system.
Napoli’s flippy floppy
…And the Blue Jays turn the knife. It must suck to be an Angels fan right now.
-C
yes it does.
What? I mean…. WHAT?!?! I’m failing to understand the logic here, but whatever. Looks like Toronto will be seeking another DH. Cue Vlad?
Maybe he just really really wants Encarnacion to be DH
I mean, I guess… I understand that this is another bridge year and we’re clearly not going to want to compete, but still… I dunno. Seems weird. But then again, if we’re not going to compete, what does it matter anyway, right? Maybe Napoli and AA couldn’t work out an extension, or maybe he just didn’t want to be here? We’ll see…
doubt he didn’t want to be here..
I think that something else is coming, and then it will make sense..
Perhaps bringing in a 3rd baseman
Hmm…. it just seems kinda iffy right now. But for the sake of fun and wasting time, lets play the “what if” game.
What if nothing else is coming? Then what? Does it still make sense?
no. then it doesn’t make much sense..
but in the end if the deal is Rivera + Francisco for Vernon Wells + 86 million..
its still a damn good trade
I mean, of course. It’s good for what it is. We trade Wells, get rid of his albatross of a contract, get Riveria and Francisco, along with some cash in return? I’ll take it, but it just seemed like we lost some much needed power in our lineup. Maybe it’s just me, I dunno.
to be honest the last thing this lineup needs is more power..
if AA can swing a reliever and a young prospect arm in to someone who is good defensively and can get on base, then the team will be much better off
Not to mention whatever coin they got from Texas, that $86mil off the books is actually higher.
a good pitching staff+ a very good very deep bullpen+a decent defensive team+ an offensive team that will be at the tops again…yeah it has the possibility to make sense if nothing else happens and the amount of money cleared this off season too dont forget that
Chone Figgins anyone? You heard it here first!!!
probably possible not going to lie…2 BP guys and rivera for figgens…no cash changing at all the jays dont get any and the M’s dont get any….slot figgens at thrid and move bats back to right figgens 1 YE-2 bats 3rd hill 4th lind 5th Catcher 6th EE 7th snyder 8th davis 9th decent line up
3rd hill? huh what??
you land figgins
and you do
Figgins 3b
esco ss
lind 1b
Jbau rf
snider lf
encarnacion/vlad/ guy with a bat/ dh
hill 2b
arencibia c
davis cf
lind returning to his 2009 form, and jbau hitting 35 jacks and that team just misses the wild card
ewwww please god no.
not really, I’ve been preaching that for months!
me too.
Have a DH that can play the field if he has to isn’t the worst idea. Not that EE is good but…
EE would be the worst DH in the AL!
I think AA as something big in mind. Another blockbuster trade coming up?
maybe it’s in the cards for AA to deal for a 1B, or he’s planning on signing Vlad….I’m sure there’s more to come.
In AA we trust, all others (including the Rangers and Angels) pay cash!
Napoli for bullpen help? ehhhhh, I don’t really like this on the surface.
If AA brings in Vlad, he will cap off the best offseason the Blue Jays have had in a very long time. I personally think Frank Francisco was a great pickup. Not to long ago, he was an extremely solid reliever. Vlad is an upgrade over Napoli anyway
Ditto that!
Jays have announced this trade, they’re also getting cash, though no word on how much.
Hey Tony Reagins! You CAN get money on your trades too! Loser.
lol maybe the rangers are sending the 40 million the Angels should have
Has the Rangers always have had this kinda money…It’s like whatever the Angels do to boast their lineup the Rangers do the same or even better.
No, Tom Hicks ran this franchise to the ground until the sale last year, to the point where field maintenance was an issue. He used luxury tax dollars to pay off his many debtors. They just had a crafty front office with limited funds and great scouts over the last 3-4 years that culminated in a WS berth.
These new owners, so far, seem to be focused on at least trying to put a quality product on the field, and have made major improvements to the Ballpark that will be evident, and the outfield grass may even stay green this year! I’m a skeptic fan, so I’d like more proof than just one offseason that these owners will continue this path, but all signs are pointing up for a change.
As for this trade, Rangers have a lot of RH relievers, and Frank Frank is a volatile part of that. When he’s on, he will go thru long stretches of unbelievable pitching, but he’s also injury prone and will go thru a week stretch of getting nobody out. Napoli has seemed to love hitting vs Ranger pitching at the Ballpark in the past, so I’m interested to see what he can do hitting in this Ballpark as home base as that extra RH bat. I was holding out hope that Vladdy would come back in a lesser role, but apparently all signs are he wants to be a full time DH, which TX will not offer with Mike Young getting most of the playing time there. Even though Vladdy tailed off in the later parts of the season, with a lesser role, I can see him being a force with around 400-450 plate appearances.
i wonder if moreland is still getting all those votes of confidence and that means either torrealba(sp) is gone after signing or teagarden is going to start in AAA again…or or or…that young might be on the move now and nap will DH full time….i wonder what the rangers are going to do with the freed up money from FF being gone?
Spend it and more on Napoli.
Teagarden was the 3rd catcher last year. Matt Treanor was re-signed with the intention of being the backup, but this trade probably decreases his role significantly. In fact, it’s probable that either he or Teagarden don’t stay with the team very long (unless Texas is content to keep Teagarden in AA like last year).
Napoli’s playing time will be split between C/1B/DH. He’ll platoon with Moreland at 1B since Moreland is weak against lefties and Napoli crushes lefties. He’ll spell Torrealba frequently, as he’s never been the type of catcher to play a full schedule. And he and Murphy will split DH duties whenever an infielder is given a day off and Young plays the field.
I figure that’s already 100+ games and we haven’t accounted for injuries yet. In my mind he’ll be an everyday player… essentially an infield version of David Murphy. On April 1st you’re not really sure how he’ll end up with 100+ games played, but he always does.
Boston’s always in the market for a Texas catcher.
Agreed. The Marcum deal was awful. AA is good, but not the god people are making him out to be.
oh common, we got the 2nd best prospect at 2B. And its cleared future starting spots for young pitchers. And we knew that it was coming AA has said that he wants power starters who strike people out, marcum was never in the long term plans for the jays. It was a swing for the home run kind of deal for AA who prizes quality over quantity.
#3 starter for a top 30 prospect, seems pretty fair to me.
I agree. It isn’t that bad of a trade. Not his best, but def not bad.
Agreed. On the whole, AA has been excellent I think, but not every move has been flawless. Wallace obviously didn’t work out, I don’t think he maximised value for Downs, they bottled it on Chapman, and the jury is definitely out on this Napoli trade. Still damn glad he’s the GM, mind.
no one bats 1000!
Indeed they don’t, but I think AA has dropped the ball more times than most Jays fans would care to admit. Not beating up on the guy at all – I think he’s done an excellent job on the whole, and I am sure he is the type to learn from mistakes.
well he plays the whole high risk/high reward game
usually those types of moves have a higher tendency to not work out, but when they do you look genius..
I’m sure we’ll look back one day and say something like, boy that Gose kid never panned out, but who cares cuz Brett lawrie is so awesome.
Yep! Agreed. I have no problem with his philosophy. And mistakes have to be made, it’s inevitable. Just saying that the section of fans justifying AA’s every single move need to reign it in a little.
There’s no guarantee that Chapman’s arm will hold up as a starter if the reds go that route and 30 million dollars for a relief arm isn’t some steal of the century. Also, if you’re going to fault the Jays for not signing Chapman then every team not named the reds deserves blame as well. Saying AA dropped the ball on Chapman is silly. While I agree that he dropped the ball on this trade(unless the cash is substantial), Anthopolous has made very few trades that have been panned at the time they were completed.
AA said in an interview, that he felt he dropped the ball on Chapman, and that it is his biggest mistake thus far..
Yup and he also stated that was because he didn’t scout him much earlier so he didn’t feel comfortable going 30+ but he still said that was his biggest regret.
But AA is the first to admit he dropped the ball on Chapman. The Jays made a strong push for him, but lost their nerve in the final stretch. Perhaps understandable given that AA is a rookie GM with paymasters to satisfy, but equally he knows – and has admitted – that he made a mistake.
how has he dropped the ball? he cleared over 100 millon from the team with the wells rios deals…that alone makes up for any other bad trades…he got a supplemental pick for a catcher no one wanted apparently. He got a ton of draft picks this off season, he spend his money on the draft and has a great eye for tellent….yeah he could have gotten a bit more for a few of his deals but e got a good pitcher who has the best experience closing out of the bunch in his pen now…the wallace thing was bad but he got a ton of good tallent for halladay and again the money saved since he came in makes up for everything
we forget that he turned taylor into wallace, taylor who has completely fallen of the map for oakland. and wallace who didnt have a good mlb debut. gose is unkown but he is dynamic, a game changer if it all pans out.
Oh, that’s not forgotten. It’s more to do with the big talk about Wallace’s “pure hitting” and being the 1B of the future, only for the guy not to work out. And equally, not having enough “confidence” in Chapman to push the boat out a little further. He’s capable of making mistakes, but in the Wallace case he should certainly be applauded for having the guts to flip the guy instead of making him a GM pet project.
Agreed — Not one of them has done anything yet. Furthermore, AA said that the Phillies wouldnt give him up (instead of Taylor) in the Halladay deal. Meaning: Philly valued him higher than Taylor, Taylor is traded for Wallace who is traded for Gose. So who knows…
Awful? The numbers Lawrie put up for a 20-year-old at Double-A were fantastic. Marcum has two years of control left, is about to get expensive, is already 29, and saw DL time again this season after missing a year and a half with Tommy John.
Taking an injury risk that you paid $850K last season and flipping him for one of the game’s better prospects based on 195 innings of work is a solid move. Lawrie, Gose, and Snider will make up a strong outfield in the coming years, if they don’t retain Bautista anyway. If they do, Hill can be shifted to third with lawrie at second.
It’s really silly to claim the Marcum trade is awful at this point.
If Marcum goes on to be a top of the rotation pitcher without injury problems, and Lawrie never pans out – then yeah. It’d be terrible.
But there’s nothing wrong with getting a team’s #1 prospect for a guy you view as a good #3 starter with injury and durability questions.
agreed and the chances of marcum figuring it out and being a go to win every time true ACE at 29 with TJ already is low…lawrie has a better chance of being better then marcum
Don’t forget, the Brewers are only getting 2 years of Marcum. Even if he pitches great for the next two years the Jays will have a good rotation without him and they added a 6 years of a very high ceiling position player.
they got a top 50 prospect who had an awesome season in AAA in only his second professional season at 21 why was it a horrible deal? they had huge starting pitching depth they traded from an area of huge strength to get a premium guy. yes they have hill but who knows if any of his options will be picked up…also lawrie could be moved to the OF, 1st, 3rd(moving bats back to right) its a great trade considering how good the other 4 starters for the blue jays are
AA!!!!!!!! not AAA, AA lol
sorry i edited that in a previous post..i was flipping back and forth too fast between here and fangraphs to realize there were only 2 A’s not 3 haha
No, the Marcum deal was great. They got a blue-chip prospect for Marcum.
LOL. Marcum deal was awful!? You lost a guy who is injury prone that probably won’t succeed much longer in the AL East for a potential Joey Votto type player that is under control for the next 6 years?
Again, it’s hard to comment on what AA has planned when it’s only January. There are still months to sort out the lineup.
This is krazyyy!!!
Napoli is going to hit 10 very spiteful HRs against LAA this year.
His only 10 over the course of the season. I see decreased play time in texas for him
More spiteful than that Bautista HR against the Yanks last season?
Saw this coming, but not to the Rangers!
I think AA is looking toward the trade deadline. He’ll be able to clean contenders out of their prospects with some of these arms. Maybe not top of the line prospects, but prospects nonetheless. Until then, they have plenty of options in the bully for mop up duty when they’re getting rolled by the Sox, Yanks, and Rays.
If his demands are as high as last season, he won’t be cleaning any GMs pockets. He’ll just wait and hope they are ranked as Type B or A FAs.
Good point. I’m sure he’d love some additional draft picks.
Absolutely excellent point. I stole it and tweeted it. (at least I put RT in front of it though. LOL)
I fail to see this as a good move for Toronto. Has-been closers are cheap, and fickle.
when u need relief help and have a good catcher already, it makes a lot of sense.
And, i think they are trying to help protect their young starters.
They don’t have a good catcher though. They have a rookie who might hit but isn’t great defensively and they have a catcher who can catch but can’t hit. So they really could have used Napoli.
Does AA even take some time off ?? Man that guy is active
i believe there was an interview posted on this website or maybe a different one a few months back saying he is always on his blackberry always checking guys, texts scouts, gms..he is literally always working…in other words…he is a great GM probably the best in the MLB right now
I don’t mind this move either way. I don’t like Napoli much as a hitter, mainly because of his inconsistency and his propensity to swing for the HR, but he would’ve been helpful at catcher, 1B, and DH, and I’d much prefer him to get playing time over Edwin Encarnacion. Frank Francisco is a bit inconsistent himself, but I think the Jays could use better relief pitching. Dotel is old, Rauch isn’t much of a strikeout pitcher (which could prove to be difficult in Rogers Centre), and Villanueva hasn’t actually proven much. The returning Jays relievers are all kinda iffy too, whether because of inexperience (Purcey, Roenicke, etc.) or just inconsistency (Camp, Janssen, Frasor, etc.)
Regardless, Napoli should bring back more than a once-average closer.
napoli at around 5.5$ mil dollars brings back an average closer.
Napoli’s not a stud by any means, but it’s incredibly easy to find a relief pitcher who can put up Fransisco’s numbers.
you could say the same about napoli, ramirez got 2 mil, damon got 5.5 mil, vlad will get less than 5, thome got 3.
rauch got 3.5 dotel got 3.5 down gurrier blaufor got more than that, this is a fair trade value wise, but need wise it is confusing, the jays dont need another reliever and the rangers didnt need another dh/1b/c
In terms of WAR it’s not close (value-wise). Napoli doubles Fransisco.
Given the reported interest in Napoli was much higher than for any former-closer on the trade market, and I can’t help but think AA could have done better here.
I think AA is still high off the wells trade, and felt kinda bad lol nah but seriously its a slight win for the rangers when you take into consideration there inlcluding just under a million with fransisco.
i love it that the jays got the rangers to include cash when they got away with sending nothing to the angels.
errrr no.
0 hits over 0 AB= INFINITY (or was it 1?)
HES A FIRST BALLOT HOF
I don’t see how this works out for the Jays. They have enough pitching and they needed a decent hitter who DOESN’T strike out a ton
You can’t have enough bullpen help, and Napoli certainely wasn’t that hitter.
will this hurt Napoli’s chances at making it onto the Level of Excellence at Rogers Centre?
nope
hes got an INFINITY BATTING AVG, INFINITY OBP, AND INFINITY SLG. but having no HRs might hurt his chance
He’s the guy who came back in the VERNON WELLS TRADE
He will forever be enshrined in all of our hearts
Wait… They don’t want Juan Rivera too??
not a good deal or a bad deal. just confusing
I have no rooting interest involved in this, whatsoever…but I can’t help but scratch my head at this deal. It would seem to me that Napoli is worth about 2 Fransiscos based on WAR. Plus he’s younger and has positional flexibility.
You are absolutely right….AA jock swingers are trying to suger coat this one…Napoli should have fetched more….
Couldn’t agree more. Jon Daniels is the one who pulled off a great move here but all you see is a bunch of mindless AA praising. If the deal was the other way around everyone would be saying that Daniels just got fleeced by AA.
And I have no rooting interest in the Jays either. The Vernon Wells trade was amazing, but this one not so much.
If Vlad comes to Toronto, they certainly come out ahead, getting a better hitter and a quality reliever for the same amount of $$. However, it’s going to be a bit puzzling if we don’t get him.
Dollars aside, what about the trade value? A Napoli could have built significant TV at the Rogers Center. Vlad would be a stopgap.
I like the deal for the Rangers, but what are they going to do with Michael Young? With that offense stacked, there just doesn’t seem to be alot of AB’s for him.
dammit, i’d rather have manny!
Ben, can you make a “Where will Vlad end up?” poll now?
blue jays find there closer
Found him about a week ago actually.
AWESOME AA !! I love this pen, Dotel is pushed down to 6th/7th inning where he belongs, or on the trading block which would be even better, it also sends a message which says: we (Jays) we will compete in 2011, and that’s very cool. Francisco, Rauch, Purcey, Dotel, Camp, very solid pen.
wat
There’s no way the Jays will compete in 2011. Scratch that. There’s no way the Jays CAN compete with the current line-up. Don’t get your hopes up. I love them, too, but just be patient. Won’t be 2011. MAYBE 2012, probably 2013.
The Jays aren’t competing in 2011.
I would say it’s unlikely the Jays will contend in 2011, but the future does look bright.
They’ll compete for 5th place with the Orioles. These moves made in the past few days have made the Blue Jays a worse team in 2011. The reason they are so popular is because they give the Jays more flexibility in in the future.
So Texas is just totally folding up pitching, and going all-in on offense?
This pretty much means Feliz is staying in the closer role all year. So much for trying to stretch him out…
Texas Fail.
Is it possible for both teams to lose in a deal? I think that just happened…
agreed. fair trade value wise, but need wise it is confusing, the jays dont need another reliever and the rangers didnt need another dh/1b/c
The Rangers absolutely needed another DH/1B.
how is it a fail their pitching staff was very very good last year and feliz is an amazing closer maybe they wait till next year when the market is flooded with closers to sign one to stretch feliz out…its always nice to add a ton of offense..now they are not resting solely on hamilton and kinsler
Without Lee their rotation is far from “very very good”. It’s decent, but
they’re leaving the guy with the best arm on their team to pitch the fewest
innings.
Lee wasn’t all that great in the regular season, results wise, and removing the performances of Harden and Feldman had last year will be a plus for the Rangers pitching staff. Wilson and Lewis will probably regress some but could both give very good years. If Holland reaches his potential the Rangers pitching staff probably will be better than last year, if he doesn’t they won’t fall that far from the results of last year.
Without Lee or possibly signing Pavano, the Rangers staff won’t be better than last year. Your forget about the As in your overreaction.
The Yankees have done this with Rivera and it has seemed to work pretty well.
Francisco didn’t pitch well at all last year even when he was healthy. This has zero impact in the Rangers bullpen and does nothing to affect Feliz joining the rotation. Great move by JD.
I thought because Napoli was such a good hitting catcher that the Jays could have gotten more than Francisco, but maybe I’m not giving enough credit to Francisco.
I can’t imagine Jays getting that much cash from Texas, but the cash I’m sure helps.
Wells entire contract to Angels. Jays ave A LOT of money there. now get even more money with Fransisco from Texas.
ch-ching!
There is another deal coming, either in the way of signing Guerrero, or a trade. Plus look at it from this perspective, Would you have traded Vernon wells and his contract straight up for Francisco and Juan rivera? I would have in a heartbeat.
the Jays probably would have taken a lot less in a trade for Wells if the other team was willing to pay the ENTIRE contract. still surprised by that, something most(if not all) other teams would not have done.
Whoaaa AA trades Wells and his entire salary and ends up with one player likely to be a Type A Free Agent (Francisco) at the end of 2011 season and another (Rivera) a Type B at the end of 2011. I am impressed.
except FF would just accept arb if he was a type A
Like he did this off-season.
OK…let him become Type B 😉 Still not bad return for Wells and his contract.
And free agent comp. is likely to be wiped out pretty soon.
Thats the most sensible response in this entire thread.
except when you remember that Francisco accepted arb this year, the fact that he is a type A doesn’t benefit the team
That could change if he has a great year as a CLOSER instead of a set-up man. Just sayin’
doubtful…
I wonder if AA has caclulated what it will take to convert both Fraser and Fansisco into type Bs. Don’t saves have a large impact on the Elias Rankings? ex…If Fancisco pitches 50 innings of 3.8 era and 5 saves, he drops to a type b. Then I get my juicy picks!!!
I wouldn’t put it past AA He probably has Excel spreadsheets popping out names as possibles for the next two years while waiting for top prospects to graduate to MLB level.
I suggest people should brace themselves for Yunel Escobar to be part of a big package within one year.
If you exclude his first three appearances in 2010 coming out of the spring, his ERA for the remainder of the season is around 2.75.
You can never have enough arms down in the bullpen. Francisco doesn’t look pretty, but he gets the job done. Pitching for the Rangers certainly doesnt help your stats in that ballpark. Napoli can be a good pickup too with the thunder. Good deal for everybody.
Now the Jays have 4 guys with closing experience, Francisco, Frasor, Rauch, and Dotel. Pretty nice pen.
they also have a no risk, no gamble, huge potential payoff in Cabrerra…
Is that supposed to be Cordero?
unless AA picked up Cabrera and just didn’t tell anyone? lol
Wouldn’t be that big of a surprise
AA might be the best GM in the game right now. im not giving the honors to epstien or cashman because, lets face it, a brain damaged monkey could do that job with the money they are given to work with. great move.
There are different challenges for large market teams, not everybody can manage it, Omar Minaya for example.
FWIW, Minaya didn’t do well with small-market teams, either.
-C
AA hasn’t won a thing yet.
He might be the hottest name on MLBTR, but that’s a far cry from being a great GM – the goal of which is to assemble championship teams.
he hasn’t exactly had much time since taking over from Ricciardi. give him time to see what HIS moves can do for the Jays.
So we agree its way too early to be crowning him great or terrible…
if the only GMs that are great are the ones that win championships, then there are a lot of GM that have made great moves that would not be classified as being great GMs.
Jays GM AA has made some great moves. getting what he did for Halladay when Ricciardi couldn’t was great, and trading all of Wells contract was another great move.
AA has done a great job at being the GM thus far.
Acknowledging he’s made some great moves is one thing. Declaring him the
“best GM in the game” is another (which is what the original poster did).
No, you don’t have to win a championship to be a great GM. But you need to
do more than break .500 and ship off Vernon Wells to be considered great.
AA looks clever right now because he’s turning that ship around. But if he
doesn’t prove he’s put it on a winning path, he’ll only be great at grabbing
headlines.
All in all its been a great 18 months as a Jays fan. AA has done well. Clearly the goal is to win a championship, but that takes time and many nice moves along the way.
I’d like to point out he’s done a lot more than shipping off VW and creating a team that breaks .500. Getting Morrow for a marginal reliever leads that list.
These are the same ppl declaring Wells to have little value and Wells trade the worst baseball move in history. That’s debatable on both points.
In defense of JP:
-AA didn’t get MORE than what JP was offered. He simply dealt with reality once Halladay made things more urgent and took the best deal that was on the table that met their needs. I’m 99% sure the Phills offered the same package to JP as well.
With regards to AA. What deals has he done thus far?
-Releasing Rios and getting nothing at all in return thru a wire waiver. Not exactly a move that took savy, intellect or negotiating skills. He literally had to fill out a form and hope that some team was willing to pick up Rios’ and his contract and get nothing in return. No credit for that. If he went unclaimed THEN AA would have to get creative to move his contract.
-League for Morrow- A very good deal thus far for both teams. Who wins might come down to how well of a starter Morrow turns into vs how good of a prospect/mlb’er Johermyn CHaves turns into. 21 @ A+ 32 hrs, .315/.387/.577
-Wells for Nap,Rivera- Great deal. Dumps a ton of sunken cash. From all reports, Reagins approached AA about the trade during the winter meetings and again a week ago. Give AA a solid A but I still wonder if it was a factor of him being a superior GM or Reagins being a complete fool.
-Napoli for Francisco- TBD
JpR released rios, and you can add the alex gonzalez for yunel escobar for AA.
rios was JPR
you can add the buck signing, the gonzalez signing and trade, the olivo 500,000k for a pick stroke of genius, the taylor for wallace deal.. those are all top notch moves
there are a few TBD of course. but so far so good
You should probably stick to the Yankees, as you’ve missed a bunch of moves/signings that AA has done that were very good moves for now and for the future (acquiring good major league talent and tons of picks), also the Rios release was JP’s doing.
Edit: Also…Chanvz put up those numbers in the most hitter friendly league in A ball. I think i’d still take Morrow, who could turn into a legit top of the rotation guy with excellent stuff for a middle reliever and a guy that is highly unproven. That’s just me though.
No it’s just fine to call him great for the deals he has done. Because really all of them have been above average deals. No mistakes yet.
Apparently mailing it in for a few seasons and dumping payroll for the suits while not making any real improvements to the team makes a GM great.
LOL He’s been GM for 18 months and got the job when he supposed to rebuild. “He hasn’t won a thing” LOL
It sure is a different feeling having complete confidence in your GM / front office, no matter what moves they make. They always seem to be looking 2 steps ahead. JPR seemed to have a nac of eff’n everthing up.
And the Rangers bullpen gets even weaker. It was the weakest part of our team in the postseason.
Again, no. SSS.
It’s weird that these boards are now filled with self-loathing Rangers fans. I guess that’s what happens when you go to the WS.
FRASOR FOR TROUT
Won’t work. Not enough salary going to the Angels. If the Jays still had Rios…
Jays could sign Frasor to a 5 yr, 70M contract first or something to make it seem like Frasor’s even better first?
Make it 4/70 and you’ve got a deal, the years are attractive to us.
plus cash
I have no doubt the Jays have asked about him!
But i see them chasing Sizemore (if he returns healthy).
That’s an interesting notion….He’s a major risk because of injuries, but one heck of a ball player. I could actually see AA trying to pry him away from Cleveland, but it would take a lot.
Perennial all star when healthy, still young, speed, defence — i think he fits perfectly, and the type of player they could lock up (assuming he is healthy).
How does this trade effect the Rangers decision on Feliz, and whether or not they try to stretch him out and put him in the rotation?
The word from the Rangers continues to be that Feliz will remain the closer.
When you think about it, AA essentially DUMPED all of Wells Salary, and got a 1 year stop gap in the outfield (Rivera) and a 1 year set up guy (francisco) who he doesn’t have to pay next year. If he’s getting cash back, he essentially cleared 23 million bucks every year for the next four years. How is this a bad deal, especially if he’s being realistic about contending this year, and building for the future?
Pretty reasonable point of view. I think it’s safe to say now that the Jays are stripping down the payroll in anticipation of a reload (Pujols, Fielder?)
I think the thing that surprises some people is that Napoli appears to be a low-sell trade. The guy could have mashed at Rogers Center and, with his versatility, could have been a very valuable trade piece at the deadline.
So 1 year of Napoli (who may rake and become a keeper) for 1 year of Fransisco at around the same price, and clearing up payroll for who? Guys like Crawford, Fielder and Pujols will never come up here, and the only overpaid ‘big name’ FAs that ever will are the ones that want ridiculous deals (see Jason Werth). Why are fans so fixed on contracts and team payroll when the product on the field is getting worse. All AA seems to be doing is saving cash for the higher ups, and tanking the next couple seasons. The Wells trade is a wash and understandable, but this one is just another white flag.
It is possible Napoli didn’t want to DH or wanted to play at catcher at least half the time which was not happening here. EE was also signed and he didn’t hit much differently than Napoli so AA just kept the cheaper one.
I don’t understand how you think we are tanking because we are not. If we were, Jays would not have spent money on getting Dotel, Rauch or even getting Francisco (AA could have just taken some crappy prospect or so). AA wants a strong bullpen because we have a bunch of young starters so he wants some stability back there.
The only way I would question this move is if our pen stays the way it is because we have too many righties. Somebody has to go.
2 years of Napoli
Wow…
I feel bad for a guy like Napoli who just hit 26 hrs , a team like the pirates would kill to have him.
Pirates don’t kill to have anyone.
no they hold them hostage; more valuable
You can never have too many bullpen arms. In the deal we save some money, and we acquire a Type A free agent, who could eventually get us a supplementary first round draft pick in the future. AA preaches building for the future, and like Gregg, Buck, and Alex Gonzalez he brings in a player that will help build Toronto’s future either through the draft, or at the trade deadline.
How exactly does acquiring an old RP who will accept arbitration if offered it help the future? Please enlighten me
How did Gregg pan out for our future? And Gonzo and Buck? All around the same age as Francisco, Buck and Gregg got us draft picks, and Gonzo got us a superstar caliber shortstop, yet everyone criticized those moves because they were aged veterans and those all panned our in the Jays favor. Francisco’s career numbers are better than Gregg’s so technically he’s an upgrade from last year. Enlightening enough?
Your argument isn’t relevant to the discussion. The Jays traded Napoli for Francisco. They didn’t sign him as a free agent to a low-risk deal like the examples you mentioned. Furthermore, it is hard to imagine a scenario where Francisco won’t accept arbitration if he is offered it, as I already mentioned. For the Jays to get draft picks out of Francisco like they did with Gregg and Buck, they would have to offer arbitration to Francisco and have him decline.
If the Jays wanted to help their future, they would have traded Napoli for prospects. They are much more likely to find a team willing to trade prospects at the deadline for a slugging catcher than a mediocre RP.
What I said didn’t come out right but I won’t argue. Sure there is upside with Napoli but he didn’t fit with Toronto going ahead, we save a bunch of money, and we got (according to various sources including Ken Rosenthal) an ABOVE average arm for a guy who AA says does not fit in the future. Personally I doubt you’d get any solid prospects for Napoli considering he’s eligible for arbitration but thats my personal opinion.
Ken Rosenthal and Al Leiter seem to agree with me…so I’m just gonna go with analysts who get paid to do this stuff.
I don’t care how this trade pans out it is so exciting being a Jays fan right now. As for the trade I have mixed feelings. Napoli would have hit 30 HRs at Rogers and now has a chance to hit 40 playing everyday in Texas. Francisco Is a very solid reliever but not an amazing closer but he adds a lot of experience for the bullpen. He also add a possibility of either a big signing for the Jays or another big trade. I can’t wait for AA’s next move.
I don’t like this deal for Toronto. Never like trading good bats for relief pitching, and i’m not that impressed with Francisco, so it’s not like we got a lights out bullpen guy or anything. Napoli would’ve looked nice in Toronto’s lineup, especially since he can take a walk and would be hitting a HR friendly park like the Rogers Centre. This is a nice deal for Texas, he could play some 1B for them as well as DH and play Catcher when they need him to. I was much more excited to see Napoli in a Jays uniform than I am Frank Francisco, so this works out to one of more disappointing moves AA has done for me. Good job by the Rangers swooping in and grabbing Napoli from the Jays, they’ve probably had interest in him before, but obviously the Angels wouldn’t be moving him to a division rival. Also, I really don’t see how this move is some kind of prescursor to a bigger deal, as Toronto didn’t pick up anything worth a ton and they still have EE/Lind at 1st and neither of them are getting dealt.
napoli doesnt take a walk, he was just another agressive hitter that the jays have dime a dozoen.
do you realize that ed encarnacion has almost the same career numbers as napoli. is younger and cheaper.
encarnaion career – 258 .336 .453 .790
napoli career – .251 .346 .485 .831
2010 encarnacion .244 .305 .482 .787
2010 napoli .238 .316 .468 .784
Napoli’s career walk rate is 11%, so yes he does take a walk. Napoli is a much better hitter than EE, come on.
Yeah…you just listed a guy with an OBP .095 higher than his career AVG and called him someone who doesn’t take a walk. May want to check those numbers again.
#3 starter (who gets lite up by the AL East) for a top 30 prospect, seems even better to me
Brett Lawrie is still massively overrated imo. He will be a fine player if he somehow manages to play 2B but if he has to move to a corner OF spot or 3B he isn’t going to be anything special. Yes he is only 20, yes he hit decent in AA (backed by a .350 BABIP with a K% over 20 and a below average walk rate) but scouts still say he is unlikely to stick at 2B and that isn’t motivated to get better on defense. Add in alright speed, and decent power he could be a 20-20 player. Great for a 2B but not very good for a corner OF or 3B.
20-20 is still pretty good for 3B or corner OF and he struggled early on AA because he is so young. He was one of the youngest players playing there but he figured it out and played well towards the end. His defense is below average for 2B but it should be above average for 3B or OF. He’s got a strong arm and he’s got the speed to have good range in RF or LF.
He’s not a top 30 prospect.but I think he is a very good prospect and should actually gain more value as he moves over to 3rd or OF since he wouldn’t be a liability at those positions and he can hit well enough for either positions.
The Blue Jays win the off season! The Blue Jays win the off season! The Blue Jays win the off season!
Touch ’em all Alex! You’ll never have a bigger offseason in your life!!!
If Feliz goes to the rotation that is an awful, potentially division-losing bullpen. Would the closer be Arthur Rhodes in that scenario? LOL.
Ogando.
Feliz isn’t going to the rotation. And the bullpen is fine. Feliz, O’Day, Ogando, Lowe, Kirkman, Rhodes, Oliver is quite solid.
I have no idea where this “Rangers bullpen sucks” meme begin, but it’s not correct.
That lineup is filthy.
word is the Rangers will send less than $1 million to the Jays.
at first I was questioning this trade, because I think the Jays could have gotten more for Napoli. but the Jays didn’t really need Napoli, so trading him was not a surprise at all.
Arencibia is the C of the future and ready right now to take over. the Jays will not be contending in 2011, so 2011 is the time to let Arencibia get a majority of the playing time.
the Jays also have multiple other options at DH/1B, so Napoli was not needed there either.
IMO DH is also a position in which you should not have someone locked in long term, because it seems like now every off season there are multiple DH type options that you can sign cheap and they can still put up big numbers. example, Vlad is still out there coming off a season where he had .300/ 29 HR/ 115 RBI.
for Napoli(who was not needed) the Jays got someone who could be their closer. if he turns out to be a good closer it’s a win for the Jays.
Toronto apparently doesn’t think he is the future seeing as he has shopped in several deals and they have acquired a few catchers, almost making them look unwilling to play him
what catchers have the Jays brought in, that have stayed? they did bring in Torreabla, but he is no longer around. they brought in Napoli, but he is now no longer around. only catchers on the roster are Arencibia/Molina
I think you mean Olivo
your right, meant Olivo. whoever was in Colorado, still thinking Torrealba was there but that was few years back.
I don’t think Arencibia is necessarily the catcher of the future for the Jays. They have D’Araund and Perez in the minors, and JP has some flaws especially strikeouts and his lack of ability to walk. If you think about it, JP’s ceiling is probably Napoli with less walks and better defense. I’m more excited to see how good Perez is going to be, personally.
In what deals has JPA been shopped? And where are the catchers they’ve acquired?
(buzzer noise) try again
I Would love to see Vladdy Swing for the 5th deck at the Rogers Centre!!!!
this team isnt going anywhere this season so why take away atbats from lind/encarnacion, i rather find a young reclamation project and see if he can be part of the team long term.
EE doesn’t deserve that many AB’s….Vlad would be a much much better option at DH, but I don’t see them going after Vlad anyways.
If EE gets 500-550 PAs, mostly at DH, he will hit 35 HRs this season. Will Vlady? Possibly. But if EE works out, he’s controllable, signable, younger, etc.
But if EE works out, he’s controllable, signable, younger, useless, defensively challenged and a hazard around fireworks
Well, apparently the Jays don’t think he’s “useless.” Not sure about the fireworks thing. And defensively challenged is moot at DH, as you are no doubt aware, so I wonder why you make the point.
EE is never hitting 35HR’s, and if he does i’m sure it will be coupled with a .230 average and a .300 obp. I could really care less about EE, he’s very expendable in my eyes, but I doubt anyone even wants him.
ppl underrate ee’s power so much, if he plays a full season, 30 hr is very attainable, and more likely to be close to hit 250 given full playing time.
agreed: e5 bat was stronger then napoli. 66% of plate appearances and better percentage of power numbers. 21/26 hr, 29/42 bb vs 60/137 k, .244/238 avg etc… ppl are underating the underlying potential with this guy imo. francisco arm more valuable to us as a team.
i don’t even think you believe that statement and you’re the one who said it
Take at bats away from EE? as if he is a developing rookie a part of the long-term plans of the Blue Jays.
This is AA doing what he loves to do getting high draft picks and with Francisco being a type A maybe we get lucky and he turns down arb at the end of the season and get a draft pick
I’m pretty sure free agent comp is likely to be wiped out at the next winter meetings but someone can correct me if I’m wrong.
Agreed jwredsox – the free agent compensation scheme will probably get sorted once the CBA is renegotiated. But I can’t imagine it will get phased out /amended straight away, probably something around a 1-2 year lead time in order for GM’s to alter their current strategies.
not wiped out but I think changed
Wow…how about killing two birds in one stone. Trading Napoli then all of a sudden becoming a division rival again?
Jays bullpen has a chance to be great. Solid job by AA this offseason.
Bad deal for Toronto.
How so? Yes Napoli is the better player, but Toronto already has an excess of catchers and first basemen. This makes the Jays Bullpen stronger for a player who would have to platoon with many others. This deal is good for both teams.
I wouldn’t call JPA, Molina, Lind and EE an excess…JPA and Lind are unproven and EE and Molina are more or less not very good at all
Molina is one of the best game-calling and defensive catchers in the game, not to mention he’s a backup. Nobody is looking for him to be a offensive wonder, so calling him “not very good at all” is moronic.
My point is that without Napoli, if JPA struggles or can’t catch at the big league level do you want Molina to become your starting catcher? I don’t. Sure, he’s a good back up, but he should only ever be a back up. Not a platoon guy and certainly not a starter.
If Arencibia isn’t capable- which I believe he will be if playing on a consistent basis, The Jays have a glut of catchers in the minors. They could bring up Jeroloman or make a trade.
Jeroloman’s the only one who’s major league ready and I don’t think he’s much more than a younger, less slow Molina. And they already made a trade, for Napoli, who could have been the catcher, DH or 1B…based on whatever the Jays needed. Napoli gave the Jays so much flexibility and they wouldn’t have to worry about making a trade if Arencibia struggles. And they traded him for a righty reliever they don’t really need. I still don’t think it makes much sense.
Well then we’ll have to agree to disagree. Only time will tell as the season unfolds.
I guess so…as a Jays fan, I hope you’re completely right though.
Also considering that this frees up space for the Jays to sign Vlad. Cito frustrated the hell out of me with the way he handled players such as Snider and Lind. EE I agree is horrible but does provide some power, and Molina and JPA will do just fine behind the plate. Yes, Napoli was an insurance policy for these guys but Jays received a much needed bullpen arm, especially after the way the division has been establishing themselves this offseason.
I guess if you’re convinced JPA and Molina will do fine then the deal’s not bad. I’m not though because Arencibia is fairly old for a rookie, struggled his first year in AAA, and his numbers last year were likely inflated by hitting in Las Vegas. I also don’t think they need another bullpen arm, especially a righty. They have Rauch, Dotel and Frasor. Not great but I wouldn’t consider relief pitching to be a dire need.
JPA’s numbers away from vegas were far better than his home numbers. he struggled in ’09 due to vision problems during night games, which have since been corrected surgically. i’m not sold on him either, but i think theres a decent chance he sticks with the team
i think napoli would have been a nice fit if EE wasnt there. that said i doubt EE gets traded for anything of value (he was unwanted by both the jays and A’s early in the offseason). plus theres a solid chance that EE hits as good as napoli this year anyways (i still think theres some upside in that bat).
Huh, you’re right. Good call. Still, isn’t the PCL a good overall hitter’s league? Yeah I’m not convinced he can’t stick but Napoli just seemed like perfect insurance for two positions and if everything goes right he’s a pretty good DH. I also thought if everything goes right and Napoli put up good numbers – which is a good chance considering he’d be moving to the Rogers Centre – he could build up some real value by the trade deadline.
I wouldn’t call Lind unproven, as he’s already had a very good full major league season. He is coming off a very bad year though, but he definitely has the hitting tools to be able to bounce back and have an above average year at the dish.
Sorry, should have clarified…I meant he’s unproven at first (thanks Cito). If he’s a butcher at first then they could have moved Napoli or Arencibia to first and had the other catch, while Lind goes back to DH.
um e5 bat was a lot stronger then napoli last year in case you were wondering and napoli is not much use for us where as franciscos arm is.
A lot stronger how?
EE hit .244/.305/.482 with an OPS+ of 111
Napoli hit .238/.316/.468 with an OPS+ of 113
Pretty damn close to me. Plus Napoli has better numbers over his career (OPS+118 .251/.346/.485) than EE (OPS+103 .258/.336/.453) and can play first and catch (though not great). And he’s much better versus lefties than EE (OPS+ of 125 to EE’s 116) so that makes a perfect platoon with Lind if you ask me.
EE’s cheaper.
So? Napoli has better career numbers and can catch. I really don’t think money was a factor for that trade.
a lot 4mil tbd…
many ppl can play first base. napoli couldnt catch angels rotation he wont be able to catch ours, is two years older, and seems to have taken a step back in the year that texas and oakland had solid pitching… i don’t believe the latter is a coincidence.
Crazy old Scosia wouldn’t let Napoli catch the Angels rotation. He may not be great, but he’s serviceable. You say taken a step back, I say had a bit of an off year but still absolutely raked against lefties (.305/.399/.567 and OPS+158). Meanwhile, 2010 was EE’s best year since coming from Cincinnati, where he wasn’t facing the same level of pitching. So I would argue that EE’s “up” year was similar to Napoli’s “down” year.
Having a better bullpen as a result of trading away a slugging sub-par catcher/ 1B/ DH isn’t a bad deal in my opinion.
Toronto doesn’t need more of those kind of players. I’d say it’s a win-win based on need for both teams.
So is Napoli a bad enough catcher to where he shouldn’t even be an option behind the plate? Or could he possibly be the opening day catcher for the Rangers? Even if he’s just a bench bat, I like the move. But I’d REALLY like the move if he could be a competent catcher behind the plate, and add more offense to the catcher’s spot in the order
Also, I wonder if Tanner Scheppers’ chances of making the bullpen just went up. If they want a power arm to replace Francisco…well, there you go
napoli’s no stud back there, but picking up a perfect platoon 1b, a very quality DH, and a capable 2nd or 3rd catcher all in one player, and all needs for the team. I think its an awesome pickup. chances for scheppers, kirkman, harrison, lowe filling out the bullpen all went up.
And wouldn’t it be something if Anthopolous’ next move was to trade Francisco to the Angels?
and for my next trick….
For Vernon Wells and $70 million
(pssss Francisco is better than Rauch)
actually, since closers are overrated, francisco might be better as a setup man and Rauch be the closer
what’s with disqus these days?
can’t reply at all
So the angels basically traded Mike Napoli to the Rangers for nothing, The Blue Jays basically signed Frank Francisco, recieved Juan Rivera for nothing, and most importantly found a team that would claim vernon wells off waivers and pay his entire remaining salary. Blue Jays A+ — Rangers B — Angels F
Love the deal. Napoli is a good platoon option at first with Moreland, and can catch if either Torrealba and Treanor get hurt, and adds some more home run power to their lineup. Plus, now he now has a chance to directly stick it to the Angels.
I’m sorry, but Matt Treanor is not a major league calibre catcher. Napoli is a great addition for the team as a platoon partner for Torrealba; and Treanor should be relegated to the minors
Treanor’s definitely 3rd best on the team now. I wonder if they’ll DFA him to clear a roster spot for Napoli anyhow. With Teagarden in the mix, he’s no worse than Treanor as a 3rd catching option, Treanor is expendable.
John Farrel was a pitching coach – he would want lots of pitching options, no? And Farrel’s publicly stated he wanted more balance in the lineup; less mash the ball & more speed + OBP. So it doesn’t surprise me at all that AA would make this move to fit better with the philosophy of his new coach. Napoli is like Bautisa light. He’s really more of the same so I’m fine with him being moved. I’d be surprised to see him get 350 PAs with the Jays. EE is set to spell Lind at First, Bautista at 3B if necessary. It’s been publicly stated (by Farrell) that if today was opening day, Bautista would be the everyday thirdbaseman. Aaron Cibia needs the majority of time at the plate & the Jays know this. They didn’t coincidentally go out and hire a former catcher to be the assistant coach for nothing. Wakamatsu was picked partly because he can bring along one of the Jays better assets who plays one of the more challanging positions.
This is also about asset management for AA. Shouldn’t we come to know this by now? AA’s now got a player likely to be a type A FA again next offseason who he’ll offer arbitration to, which will likely be declined due to the weak FA market thats already shaped, and AA has another 2 early picks in his pocket. That, or he has a solid verteran bullpen asset to move at the deadline.
This was another move more about the future than it was for the present – good riddance.
I think with Francisco, Dotel, Rauch and Frasor in the bullpen that we’re likely to see the Jays attempt to trade Frasor. There’s no need for all four relievers (not to mention the glut of other righties they have in Villanueva, Camp, Roeneke etc…). I think AA will continue making (hopefully smart) moves, and the roster doesn’t appear likely to be fully settled yet.
I think most of the names listed will be shopped. Just like Frasar and Downs last year. Like last year, AA will have a high asking price.
One thing I can say is the Jays have a pretty nasty strike-out trio in Dotel/Frasor/Francisco. Toronto is also going to be pretty nasty against righties late in games, but they’re going to have issues with lefties, even though Francisco isn’t terrible against them, every single one of Toronto’s best right handed bullpen arms have worse splits against lefties (not surprising), with most of them walking over 4.5 lefties per 9. Rauch is pretty good against lefties, so there’s a plus at least. I think they could still use a LOOGY though, unless they think Purcey takes another big step next year which isn’t inconceivable.
I think now, if ever, is the time to give Purcey a shot. Better to let him work through those things during a building year.
AA was on the radio. Said is not certain Francisco remains Type A by end of this season. Suggested there is a chance of him becoming Type B
I think this is all about draft picks. Next year Francisco, Rauch, Dotel, Frasor, Camp (people forget), EE, and Rivera all have a chance of netting the Jays picks and I think that’s the main objective here. Ideally they’re all Type B so they don’t accept arb because they’re worried about potential suitors not wanting to lose a pick (supplemental pick per player would suffice). I liked the idea of Napoli as a Jay but I see how AA doesn’t want to pay him the $7 million he’s going to be due in 2012 (his last year of team control) to either DH or block JP. None of this is about winning in the short term, so I say forget about the idea of extending Bautista and dream about the prospects he’s going to net via trade or 2 draft picks.
My thoughts 100%. Well said!
You want a veteran reliever at trade deadline? Who you gonna call?
Damn Rangers are getting loaded. Now we can expect the Rangers to trade either Chris Davis or Mitch Moreland. Maybe even both if Napoli is playing 1B.
C- Torrealba
1B- Napoli
2B- Kinsler
3B- Beltre
SS- Andrus
LF- Hamilton
CF- Burbon/Murphy
RF- Cruz
DH- Young
I’d hardly call their offensive loaded just because the got Napoli if that’s where you’re going…their offensive has ALWAYS been loaded. The difference last year was the different facets of their offensive, including a running game and their SP. Oh yeah, acquiring Cliff Lee didn’t hurt either. Wished they could have kept him.
My first thought on hearing about this trade was Michael Young. He is obviously done in Texas. Trade him now.
Kind of hard to trade him when he’s making 16mil per year. That contract isn’t going anywhere.
What will his role be with the Rangers? I figure if Napoli isn’t playing the field, he will be DH.
Injuries do happen and it’s nice to have a Michael Young who can play pretty much all of the infield positions besides catcher. You know Kinsler is going to get hurt, it’s just a given during an Major League season these days. I’m sure Napoli will get some time behind the plate and he’ll DH, while Young will play all around the infield, especially 1B and whatever position is open due to injuries or perhaps players not playing as good as they can. Rangers have a lot of offensive depth, which i’m sure they like…plus like I said Young is making a lot of money for a guy that is on the wrong side of 30, doesn’t play great defense and doesnt have a huge bat. I really don’t see him getting traded, but like you said of the Wells deal…you just never know.
people are underrating the ability of young to DH
he hit .284 21HRs 91RBIs and runs better than most DHs
what is so bad about that from your DH?
Angels will take him and his whole contract. Maybe even throw in Weaver or Morales.
thats what was said of vernon…
Wish Zambrano didn’t have a no trade clause…we’d take Young off their hands.
You people act like Napoli is some huge difference maker.
The Angels or A’s will win the West and the people of Dallas will be crying for the Cowboys come August.
Not really. Not so much. Care to elaborate on how the A’s or Angels will beat a loaded Texas team?
Two words. Vernon. Wells. Nuf said.
A’s starting rotation…it’s loaded and its young…nuff said. Napoli is being portrayed as the hero and Wells is being portrayed as the villian.
Wells is in no way a villian, and Napoli is no hero. All Wells ever did was accept a huge contract, it’s not his fault they were willing to pay him that much.
He asked why the Angels or A’s would beat the Rangers and I (sarcastically) implied that they would beat them solely because they got Vernon Wells. I never said anything about how good or bad I thought the A’s are.
Not impressed. IF he hits like he did 5-6 years ago it will help. But he is not enough. He played well last year but the Angels lineup cannot compare with Texas. By the way I am not a Rangers fan.
I guess you missed it but that was complete and total sarcasm.
Sorry, that went right over my head. Not the first time, probably will not be the last….
This is a great fit for the Rangers. It addresses two of their three offensive needs and deals from a position of strength.
This is a nice win+ upgrade, and you can use all of them you can get. They’ve got 6 months to try to find another SP trade (or perhaps have someone like Holland really break through), but in the meantime they’re roster is perfectly capable of winning the ALW.
In my mind it becomes much tougher to move him into the rotation. Without Feliz, it almost turns into a closer by committee. Alexi Ogando would probably have the best shot to lock down the job full-time, but he’s got half a season of ML experience. The bullpen is strong enough to withstand the loss of Francisco… but I wouldn’t feel comfortable if it lost Feliz too.
what are you basing your statement that Moreland struggles against lefties?
stop being lazy and look up his splits in the minors, and I know you aren’t going to use the VERY SSS in the big leagues
what are you basing your statement that Moreland struggles against lefties?
stop being lazy and look up his splits in the minors. I know you aren’t going to use the VERY SSS in the big leagues.
Napoli was arguably the Angels 2nd most productive player last year. He doesn’t have to be a huge difference maker batting 7th or 8th, but he still has a lot of value. You’re just bitter.
Numbers are not the only thing that defines a player’s productivity. I watched almost all the Angel games, and at least gamecast all of them. And I cannot tell you how many times the Angels had their first two batters in an inning reach base, and up comes might Napoli or Rivera, grounding into a double play. It was agonizing. Then in the 8th inning with the game out of reach, Nap decides to jack up a solo shot.
You may be right about Nap being the 2nd most productive player. But then again, we’re talking about the Angels offense, productivity is super hard to find. Just because he is the most productive in a group of least productive ( which i dont believe he is ) doesn’t mean we have to keep him. Getting someone better would be a huge improvement.
i dont know why people are so in love with napoli. He does nothing special. sure he hits home runs, but those are always with no one on or when the game is already decided. He does nothing with men on, except hit into double plays. Than there is his very below average defense. He is not worth it.
Finally someone with a PAIR OF EYES on this place. Napoli is not a good player. The people thinking the Wells trade was a steal for the Jays (ie. everyone) didn’t watch him play. He sucked, and Napoli with Rivera for Wells straight up would be a steal for the Angels, instead, the money tilted it to the Jays favor. But that’s a few million in one of the biggest markets, who cares?
The Angels get a bat in the middle of their lineup, which they needed to support Abreu, Morales and Hunter. The Jays freed up money, and got a decent reliever. Works out well for both sides.
all I have to say is…LOL.
I guess you could say the Wells trade was a steal for the Jays because they were really really desperate to get rid of him, not because of his ability but his money. Heck Rivera for Wells might have worked if the Angels took all of his salary, Nap was just an added commodity. But definitely Napoli was waaaay overhyped due to his homers, which is pretty high for a catcher. Except he is a gargabe catcher LOL.
As for the money, 20 mill a year is kinda expensive for a player like Wells, who is a excellent ball player, but not for 20 mill. Even in this market 20 mill has to go to players on the level of Hamilton or 2009 Kendry. But we needed a bat, and if Arte can afford it, Wells is better than Rivera dropping flyballs and grounding into rally-killing double plays. There’s no denying he’s overpriced, but hey if Arte says it can be managed, why not?
Everybody knows angels won the talent part of the trade , it was the fact that the Angels paid the extra 70 million for Wells, its not a few million its 70!!!
an experienced low 90s fastball with solid change working with farrell and walton…. nice…. to boot salary will be more or likely 1.5ish mil less plus some more cash kicked in…. for a player (no offense mike) we didn’t need? sweet….
fransisco throws 94-98 lol and uses a slider primarily
Wish we had AA…
i know people were high on napoli but we already have 2 catchers. 1 is our highly touted prospect that needs to start playing full time followed by a very good vet. catcher that can be a good mentor to our rookie. having napoli would of just complicated things. plus Francisco could be our closer going forward, could be another gregg story where he just needs a change of scenery.
In AA we trust.
has anybody looked at naps stats last year. It took about 140 strikeouts with under 500 AB. His lowest BA ever, his lowest BA with runners in scoring position. He strikes out a lot and can’t catch…
26 hrs WOW! Lol
The Rangers must have been desperate to get Napoli that they had to add cash incentive along with Francisco, 2009 closer for the Rangers.
or they just want a bench bat? its essentially signing a guy for the cash added because Harrison/Kirkman/Scheppers slides right into Fransisco’s spot
(In Reply to TwinsVet) It might be easy, but it hasn’t been easy for the Rangers as he was easily one of the best pitchers in their bullpen while Napoli is a weaker bat than Vlad’s so the Rangers are a weaker team than last year by going in this direction. The only way this makes sense is if the Rangers were thinking that Francisco was too injury prone to rely on so they picked up a catcher who could hit.
No one cares to look that Young is 2 rangers players right now…
Your DH and your utility player.
To be honest i think if you look strictly at utility players i think hes considered the best in the league? he could start in a few places in the MLB..
As far as DH… 284 with 21HRs and 91RBIs with decent speed… sounds fine to me at DH.
yes he is over paid but the way to look at it is your paying him 10mill for DH and 5mill for IF
Don’t like this deal yet but I will get over it 🙂 I really want to see Frank bring in type A status though, if that’s the way AA is playing it.