Red Sox owner John Henry and CEO Larry Lucchino declined to discuss the Cubs’ request to talk to GM Theo Epstein this morning, insisting that rival teams express interest in Boston’s personnel every year. In an extended appearance on WEEI’s Dennis & Callahan Show, Henry allowed that a “certain protocol in this game” generally dictates that teams allow employees to consider promotions.
Epstein could theoretically add president to his title in Chicago, which would be considered a promotion. It’s fair to assume that the longtime GM will move on from his current role at some point, though the transition won’t necessarily occur in the near future.
"I think there's a certain shelf life in these jobs," Henry said. "If you're sane, you can only be the general manager, you can only be the manager for a certain period of time. … Theo is not going to be the general manager forever."
Henry confirmed that the Red Sox would probably not have picked up their two-year $8.75MM option for Terry Francona after the season. The owner suggested that the decision to part ways wasn't completely mutual, since Francona made a decision before his bosses did.
Epstein has been searching for Boston’s next field manager along with assistant GM Ben Cherington. Sean McAdam of CSNNE.com hears that Dale Sveum is a candidate on their list. The former Red Sox coach has managed on an interim basis in Milwaukee.
I still gotta think that if Epstein jumps to Chicago it won’t take much time before Cherrington will be named the new GM.
Dale Sveum? Isn’t he the guy that used to send runners home from third no matter what the play?
Please…….that art was perfected by Wendell Kim way before Dale came along.
A Red Sox tradition that continues on with Tim Bogar.
Seriously, will we ever get a third base coach who knows better than to send guys like Jason Varitek on a shallow fly ball to left at Fenway?
O, Wendell.
Ah yes, Windmill Kim. Good times … good times.
Maybe Rac Slider from Joe Morgan’s days or anyone else other than ones the team has had of late. BTW.. Who was the 3B coach Damon was hollering at in post season back in 2004 for the late stop sign at 3B??
For opposing outfielders to show off their arm and hose people at the plate…
Send ’em Sveum? No, he never did that.
Who would the sox rather have? Larry or Theo? Who does more for this organization? If Larry isnt an owner then I’m ditching him and I’m doing what I have too to keep Theo and Cherington together….say Theo as President and Cherington GM and ADIOS Lucchino!
Dont tell John DiRienzo or soxfan0928. They think that theo will be in boston forever and they also think the the redsox are the greatest thing under the sun. I guess that they will see that its more than just a few people that are talking about theo leaving boston now.
If the redsox insist on compensation for theo I am sure that the cubs could send carlos zambrano to them if they paid his 2012 sallery.
You obviously have no clue how this works. Teams always get compensation when a manager or general manager leaves to go to another team when he still has time left on his contract, that’s just the way it works. The marlins gave up 2 of their top 5 prospects to get Ozzie Guillen (a manager, and not a great one), so what do you think the compensation would have to be for Epstein (a General manager, and a great one)? It’s certainly not going to be the privilege of paying for an overpaid clubhouse cancer.
I think that you are over playing the redsox hand here guy with all of the “clue’s”. The sox aren’t that extremely interested in retaining theo. The only
reason that theo is still with the sox is because the cubs want him and
btw the angels want him also. So lets give up 1 of our best prospects in
brett jackson for a guy that the sox would be firing if cubs and angels
had GM’s. That makes no sense and that is why I made the comment
earlier that “If the redsox insist on compensation for theo I am sure
that the cubs
could send carlos zambrano to them if they paid his 2012 sallery”
You’ve herd this before SARCASM a nown BS from yesterday.
Why in the world would the Sox fire Theo if the Cubs and Angels didn’t want him? That’s complete nonsense.
the cubs compensation to the redsox for theo will be the sox wont be paying his 2012 sallery after theo gets his “promotion” to cubs president of baseball operations.
Where have you heard that Theo Epstein would be fired or is in the hotseat with John Henry? ESPN Boston chat rooms (no hate Bean Town) aren’t reliable sources. The Cubs would absolutely have to give up something to get the Sox to allow Theo Epstein to opt out of his contract. Brett Jackson is absolutely going to start any type of compensation package. Or, would you prefer the Cubs give up their All-Star short stop?If John Henry was so intent on firing Theo Epstein, why is Epstein leading the managerial search? You aren’t making much sense.
if you will notice epstein’s name is allways followed with cherrington’s name in any business decisions especially after the season ended thats 1 more reason why.
He’s the freaking assistant GM! Do you think GMs of successful front offices work alone? Cherrigton is and has been a major part of baseball operations. You still haven’t given a source for your statement that Epstein would be fired if it weren’t for the Cubs and Angels having GM openings. Or, would you like to just admit now that you are full of crap?
You never hear the assistant GM’s name mentioned with the business decisions untill the red sox implosion this September. The decision to let theo walk is allready made they are just working on the exit strategy now as to trying to get something for the guy that they want to fire anyway.
I think you need to do yourself a favor. Go through the MLBTR archives and read through all of the Red Sox rumors. If what you say is true, then all of those interviews where Epstein is discussing his strategy for selecting a new manager, offseason plans, etc. must just be BS. I also went through the archives since 9/28/11, the day the season ended. Cherrington’s name is mentioned once in reference to working with Epstein and that was today. Every other time his name has been mentioned it has been in a discussion about the Cubs’ GM or a replacement for Epstein.
According to a week old article at boston.com, Theo has an option that must be picked up by the Sox on 10/8. This option has not been picked up, if it has it sure has not been announced. Why are the Sox waiting until the last hour and going on the air as saying Theo will not be the GM forever(maybe he is getting a promotion with the sox, but highly unlikely), if they are trying to show Theo they want him to stay around, It seems to me, that tomorrow is that day that will tell all. If they don’t pick up the option, then the Cubs would give nothing to hire him as Theo would be a free agent on 10/9. If they do pick up the option, I am betting the Cubs are not in the equation at all and Theo is still in Boston come 2012. The next 48 hours will tell all, it will be decided within that time frame/
“People around the game [are] getting [the] idea that” Theo Epstein will likely remain as Boston’s GM, reports Jon Heyman of Sports Illustrated (Twitter link). Yesterday, Heyman reported that “a slight majority” of people around baseball believed Epstein would turn down a job offer from the Cubs.
Good point. Hendry did it all on his own and you see what it got Cubs fans like myself, and underperforming overpaid ball club.
No, he has had an assistant GM since the offseason after 2006. Or, do you think Randy Bush was just some guy Tom Ricketts met on the street, and hired as an interim GM?
No, he has had an assistant GM since the offseason after 2006. Or, do you think Randy Bush was just some guy Tom Ricketts met on the street, and hired as an interim GM?
If I’m the Red Sox I don’t start out with Jackson. I call their bluff and say to them; “If you hire Theo we want Starlin Castro and a couple of minor league pitching arms.” Why set your sights low if you have something that someone else covets greatly?
I think you are mistaken and MaineSox is correct. Ricketts is desperate to hire Theo, for several important reasons. First, he is the face of big market sabre-metrics. He’s widely regarded as among the smartest GM’s in the game, despite some poor results in his big-name F/A signings. Second, he has had lots of success in amateur talent evaluation and building a decent farm system. Remember, much of the top talent that Theo has drafted or signed internationally has been traded away to obtain big names. Its not just ranking. And third, and probably most importantly, Theo has experience in dealing with milking maximum revenues out of an old, small ball park. He knows the renovation process and knows how to turn the 35,000-capacity turnstyles into big dollars. The Sox are not going to fire Theo. If the Cubs want him, they will have to pay dearly. But he would be absolutely perfect for them.
My prediction on compensation would be the Sox get the rights to Aram (so we could either sign him to play 3B or offer him arbitration), the Cubs take Youk and pay his salary, and your number 4 prospect, pitcher Trey McNutt.
Steve what are you posting here for? You make more sense than 99% of the obnoxious posters here that think that they are GM’s.
That was 1 of the most logical and reasonable statements that I have ever read here at mlbtr.com.
I dont agree with the compensation package but thats a minor disagreement.
What is left on youk’s contract as far as years and how much per year?
The redsox / john henry want cherrington to takeover the GM’s job this year but dont want to fire epstein and pay his 2012 sallery. Hence the problem with the compensation problem the sox want something big in return for someone that they would be firing in the right situation anyway.
I wouldnt personally want epstein as a first choice to replace jim hendry. I would want Ben Cherrington, Rick Hahn or first choice would be Billy Beane.
If the cubs did sign cherrington as GM the redsox and epstein would have ALOT of making up to do this comming year.
Look at it this way the cubs could potentially sign epstein’s replacement and epstein could walk after 2012 and then where would they be?
The red sox org. shouldn’t get to greedy with this epstein compensation thing because it could get much worse for them in the next 365 days.
Thanks for the plug. Youk has 1 yr. at $12MM plus a 2013 option at $13MM, or a $1MM buyout.
Henry wants Cherrington to co-GM with Theo for 2012 to improve the transition to him at the end of Theo’s contract. That’s why they wouldn’t fire him. I’m certain the the BoSox would not give permission to the Cubs to talk to Cherrington, whereas they will do so on Theo. And I say this despite the crap that Lucchino spewed this morning about not holding people back from considering promotions.
I don’t think the package I suggested was greedy. The Cubs need a GM now. Theo is not contractually free, but he is perfect for the situation. There’s a lot of value for the Cubs in being able to hire Theo, and to get the ball rolling on reforms. I’ve tried to approximate fair value and consider mutual needs.
I kind of get the impression that they want Theo to replace Lucchino and Cherington to replace Theo (I think that would be their ideal scenario), but I don’t know that Theo is sure that he wants Lucchino’s position.
“People around the game getting idea that, unless something changes, theo will stay with #redsox”
When is Lucchino’s time up with the Sox? I thought I remembered them extending him through this year, but there hasn’t been so much as a word about his contract/him leaving; was it through next year?
his contract expired after the 2011 season (i.e. now). not one word from ownership about it and not one question asked by the boston media about it. what that means, i have no idea. i assume they are taking it for granted that he’s staying or that they’ve already come to an agreement but haven’t publicized the details
it’s entirely possible for that (whatever has happened) to be a factor in epstein’s thinking
Yeah that’s what I thought. Weird.
Lucchino is a part owner of the club. I believe he can be president for life in this situation. I doubt the Sox want to reissue him a contract right now, but I have no doubt he’s staying unless he’s offered the commissioner’s job.
his ownership stake doesn’t permit him to renew his own contract as present & CEO. it isn’t a question of him leaving the organization, but specifically of him retaining his current role and the power that comes with it
if epstein is looking for anything, it’s not more money – it’s more autonomy. if they’re talking about his long-term future with the sox, you can bet that lucchino’s role has and will have everything to do with it
Not saying his stake permits him to renew his own contract. But a principle of common law essentially does. A stockholder in a close corporation has an entitlement to a position as an officer and continued compensation, if that is what he bargained for at entry into the enterprise. My point is not to get all legalistic, but rather to say that Henry and Werner are not going to be dismissing their partner here. Lucchino is the “baseball guy.” The other two know nothing about how to run a baseball team. Lucchino is the guy who brought Theo with him from San Diego. Theo is Larry’s boy. Larry mentored Theo into what he is. Theo is not going to be taking Larry’s job. The plan appears to be that Cherrington is going to be taking Theo’s job, and Theo is going to be leaving for greener pastures in 2013.
If that really is the case I’m not sure why they had to extend his contract after 2004 then
‘larry as mentor’ was over by like 2003 and lucchino’s insistence on pushing that story through the media is largely what led to epstein’s resignation in 2005. his return later that year had everything to do with power being conceded by lucchino
you could very well be right that lucchino won’t be making any other concessions now. but i’d bet that — and baseball autonomy in general — are central issues in epstein’s calculus about whether to stay long-term
Not saying his stake permits him to renew his own contract. But a principle of common law essentially does. A stockholder in a close corporation has an entitlement to a position as an officer and continued compensation, if that is what he bargained for at entry into the enterprise. My point is not to get all legalistic, but rather to say that Henry and Werner are not going to be dismissing their partner here. Lucchino is the “baseball guy.” The other two know nothing about how to run a baseball team. Lucchino is the guy who brought Theo with him from San Diego. Theo is Larry’s boy. Larry mentored Theo into what he is. Theo is not going to be taking Larry’s job. The plan appears to be that Cherrington is going to be taking Theo’s job, and Theo is going to be leaving for greener pastures in 2013.
his ownership stake doesn’t permit him to renew his own contract as present & CEO. it isn’t a question of him leaving the organization, but specifically of him retaining his current role and the power that comes with it
if epstein is looking for anything, it’s not more money – it’s more autonomy. if they’re talking about his long-term future with the sox, you can bet that lucchino’s role has and will have everything to do with it
Ramirez has said he is going to opt out and select FA
That’s fine, but we would then get the draft pick compensation for him, not the Cubs. He might, however, have a change of heart if he is receiving a quality offer from us to play 3B at Fenway. Ya never know. Either way, we come out good on such a move.
The Cubs have also said they are parting ways with Aram. He is not in their plans for 2012. I frankly am tired of his lazy attitude, his dry spells, and then his revival when all there is to play for is his own stats.
Please post a link to that. I seem to have missed it. I seem to have missed any on field personnel plans.
Please post a link to that. I seem to have missed it. I seem to have missed any on field personnel plans.
Ramirez has said he is going to opt out and select FA
Ramirez had no trade rights that would, at a minimum, complicate sending him to Boston as compensation. Boston will get compensation, but it will be in the form of prospects.
I had considered that, and its an utter non-issue. What does Aram care which team offers him arbitration if his heart is set on declining? The fact is, he will waive his no trade clause in a heartbeat because he is going to at least get an offer of a contract from a big-market perennial contender, which he can either take or decline, and end up in either the same place he would have been in declining the Cubs offer of arbitration, or possibly much better. His no trade clause is absolutely no barrier to my suggested compensation scheme.
That seems to make sense!
Sox already have one in Lackey. Why do people think think Zambrano is moveable?
Name one time a team was compensated for a manager/general manager/any executive switched teams for a promotion: ready, go.
Name one time, besides Ozzie and Lou, that a team was compensated for a manager/general manager/any executive switching teams for a lateral move: ready, go.
Lou Piniella went to Tampa Bay and the Mariners received Randy Winn. I don’t have the motivation to look up the other players involved, but there’s the one other time you requested.
that wasn’t a promotion either guy
No one said it was…
“Name one time, besides Ozzie and Lou, . . .”
Only saw Ozzie, that’s my bad. Still, looks like some hooked you up with your request.
Only saw Ozzie, that’s my bad. Still, looks like some hooked you up with your request.
Chuck Tanner to the Pirates for catcher Manny Sanguillen and $100,000. And Before the Sox promoted Theo to GM they were trying to get Beane from Oakland and Oakland wanted compensation, though it obviously never happened.
Exactly, Chuck Tanner, Ozzie, Lou, and the Jimmie Dykes John Gordon swap. All managers being traded. Never a completed GM trade (and Beane had 5 years left, not 1). Never a proposed compensation for a promotion.
That’s because they almost never happen, not because people don’t ask for compensation. Compensation is always asked for, which is the point I am making, it’s not ridiculous to ask for compensation – it’s normal practice.
It’s unwritten etiquette to allow an executive to move organizations for a promotion. Asking for compensation, in this case, never happens (name a time that it did).
Lateral moves a rare, but do happen. Usually a team just denies the request. I hardly call 3 times of compensation for the move in 100 years of baseball “normal practice.”
It’s normal to allow coaches to move to other organizations to become managers, or to allow front office workers to move to other organizations to become GMs, but I can’t think of a single time where a current manager or general manager was allowed to switch organizations without some sort of compensation.
For what it is worth, youkilis was the player going back to Oak for Beane if Beane hadn’t changed his mind.
It’s unwritten etiquette to allow an executive to move organizations for a promotion. Asking for compensation, in this case, never happens (name a time that it did).
Lateral moves a rare, but do happen. Usually a team just denies the request. I hardly call 3 times of compensation for the move in 100 years of baseball “normal practice.”
That’s because they almost never happen, not because people don’t ask for compensation. Compensation is always asked for, which is the point I am making, it’s not ridiculous to ask for compensation – it’s normal practice.
for beane that would have been a lateral move not a promotion.
godzilla is right.
for beane that would have been a lateral move not a promotion.
godzilla is right.
In 1960, Joe Gordon was the manager for the Indians and was traded to the Tigers for their manager, Jimmy Dykes.
Prior to the 1977 season, the Athletics permitted Chuck Tanner to become manager of the Pirates, in return for catcher Manny Sanguillen.
After the 2002 season, the Mariners allowed Lou Piniella to become manager of the Devil Rays. In return, they got outfielder Randy Winn from Tampa Bay.
Those were the top 5 prospects from a year ago. At this point they amount to a relief pitcher and a utility infielder. Then also bear in mind that the Sox had the threat of tampering charges to get even that much. The Red Sox will get a prospect or two, but it won’t be at the level that some people seem to think.
I honestly have no idea how well those two did this year, all I know is as of the last ranking they were two of the top 5 in the Marlins system.
They both had bad years and have slipped. They still look to be MLB ballplayers, though, just more like role guys. But you’d have to think that the Red Sox would get more than that from the Cubs.
Yeah, I would have to imagine they would get something more than what the White Sox got for Ozzie. I also kind of wonder if the Red Sox would try to add a player or two with Epstein and trying to get something to actually fill one of their holes (if you’re going to do it might as well go big right?). Probably not, but it would be interesting (actually I’m saying Theo probably stays put, so none of this will end up mattering anyway).
It’s possible, but I think the Castro/Garza talk is wishful thinking. I could see them getting a good player though. If I were Boston and shooting high, I might ask for Sean Marshall, top lefty set up guy, originally from the east coast– and the Cubs have some depth with some young lefty relief prospects. Doesn’t hurt to ask…
Yeah, when Cafardo (I think it was Cafardo) mentioned Garza and Castro I basically just laughed.
marshall+ makes a lot more sense to me than prospects, but i do think ownership would be aggressive about compensation. unlike the white sox with guillen, they aren’t motivated to move epstein
unless ricketts is totally in lurve with epstein, i don’t see why it would be worth it to get him. there are plenty of good candidates out there who don’t require the same cost. and i’m saying this as a card carrying theo fanboy
How much does membership cost?
Agreed…nothing against Theo, but when you’ve got other great candidates out there like Friedman and Cashman…or would-be first time GMs like Cherington or Coppolella all out there, it seems silly me to fixate on one guy to the point of overpaying. It’s like paying 200k for a Mercedes when you can have the Lexus for 100k.
they’d have to pay for friedman too i believe, but yes to the rest of it
Friedman doesn’t work on a contract. Could the Rays really ask for compensation and get anything of value?
I’d be happy if Ricketts sent Garza as part of getting Theo. Then we can go after CJ Wilson, CC Sabathia, or even MArk Buerhle. Buehrle is an innings eating left hander who may not want to leave Chicago if the Cardinals don;t offer him a contract/
What!?!?!?!? You want to trade the best pitcher the cubs have to go after CC Sabathia, who will likely resign with the Yankees. CJ Wilson, who has as recenty as this past week made comments that all but say, “I have no interest in playing for te Cubs.” Or, Mark Buhrle, who publicly stated that he would either play for the White Sox, Cardinals or retire. Seems logical…
What!?!?!?!? You want to trade the best pitcher the cubs have to go after CC Sabathia, who will likely resign with the Yankees. CJ Wilson, who has as recenty as this past week made comments that all but say, “I have no interest in playing for te Cubs.” Or, Mark Buhrle, who publicly stated that he would either play for the White Sox, Cardinals or retire. Seems logical…
This is getting funny with regards to compensation Maine.. Not only would Epstein GET compensation, but if that dolt Guillen is worth 2 top guys from an organization, who is trying already to bring the biggest club house cancer in the *GAME* to his new team, the Epstein, who built one of the finest farm systems, 2 WS champs and multiple playoff teams to Boston would by comparison be worth 4-5…. not that they would get that many, but Epstein at least brings things to the table and keeps his trap shut, unlike that chicago habit of guillen that Miami is now stuck with.
This is getting funny with regards to compensation Maine.. Not only would Epstein GET compensation, but if that dolt Guillen is worth 2 top guys from an organization, who is trying already to bring the biggest club house cancer in the *GAME* to his new team, the Epstein, who built one of the finest farm systems, 2 WS champs and multiple playoff teams to Boston would by comparison be worth 4-5…. not that they would get that many, but Epstein at least brings things to the table and keeps his trap shut, unlike that chicago habit of guillen that Miami is now stuck with.
“If the redsox insist on compensation”; or alternatively – ‘does a bear crap in the woods’
rick see the comment above or below
touché good sir
oh jeez kid im sorry for hurting your feelings
and by the way, i said you weren’t getting Theo without giving up something in return. and that i don’t want him to go.
but woo hoo for e-fame
you would have to mean something to me to “hurt my feelings” and you dont mean sh it to me
the reality is you were so bent out of shape about my opinion that you felt the need to go back to the other thread to find my name to throw jabs at me. which is fine, not worried about it
i just happen to think that Theo isn’t being given to the Cubs for pennies. no, i dont expect Lackey to go with him to the Cubs. i don’t even expect him to leave, and i don’t believe the Red Sox have any motivation to move him. it’s fine if you disagree; i don’t expect everyone to agree on everything
again, i clearly upset you, so i apologize
I sure hope I never hear my boss say anything like that about me. Henry’s statement seems to indicate one of two things…either Theo is already out the door, or he thinks Theo is insane. Neither one can bode well for Theo.
?? Because he said that people can’t stay in the same position forever? I don’t see the problem there. He’s right, I wouldn’t be able to go to work everyday if I knew that there was zero chance for me to move up or progress; would you want to have the same position at your job for the rest of your life?
To me it sounds like this year is going to be a transition period to Cherington. What Theo does is going to be up in the air. I’m sure the owners would consider a promotion for him, but all indications said Theo isn’t interested in that kind of a job with a baseball team. On the other side – a lot of people say he’s starting to get burnt out.
What that tells me: Rather than pay him $10 million a year, the Red Sox ownership would rather promote Ben Cherington – who’s ready – once Theo’s contract is up and promote Theo in some way, shape or form. Theo’s not sure if he wants that. He may go to another team, take the promotion or leave baseball for a period of time. Sounds like ownership has a fairly clear vision of where they want to go, would like to include Theo, but if he’s not on board so be it. Whether he leaves this year or next is sort of irrelevant. I think after next year he’s done either way.
You could be right, but that only proves the point that people can’t stay in the same position forever.
Making millions of dollars to run a baseball team?
You know, I think I’d be alright with it.
I would too…for a certain period of time. Once I was set for life, though, I have to imagine there’d come a point where the stress, media scrutiny and idiot fans constantly second guessing me would far outweigh padding my bank account further past the point where I and my family are already set for life.
Well yeah, you and I can say that because we are used to our paychecks having fewer zeros on them, but having only worked in a world where that kind of money is commonplace it wouldn’t really be the same. The money isn’t an issue, but working your way up to more prestigious position, and more control/ownership becomes the issue. Regardless, being “stuck” in one job gets tiring after a while no matter how much money you make there.
Hell yeah! I love cleaning Fribble cups! Ain’t nothing going to get in my way 😉
You get it. The sox aren’t that extremely interested in retaining theo. The only reason that theo is still with the sox is because the cubs want him and btw the angels want him also. So lets give up 1 of our best prospects in brett jackson for a guy that the sox would be firing if cubs and angels had GM’s. That makes no sense and that is why I made the comment earlier that “If the redsox insist on compensation for theo I am sure that the cubs
could send carlos zambrano to them if they paid his 2012 sallery”
You’ve herd this before SARCASM a nown BS from yesterday.
Chico65 I completely agree with you. Its the other boston fans that are looking for something very very huge in return for someone that may well be fired soon.
noun*
Known*?
Oh. My bad. hahaaha
I’ve learned to decifer the nonsense.
Actually I think he meant “adnoun”. I got tangled up in the nonsense yesterday myself.
please tell me you did that on purpose
Did what?
For fear I might be stretching my sarcasm with that last comment, yes I did. I hope it brought a smile to your face.
A combo of noun and known? Like Brangelina?
I just think people (er the media) have worked themselves up into hysterics over this when this is probably a conversation that would be going on this offseason anyway. With Terry Francona, Larry Lucchino and Theo Epstein all coming to the end of their deals, a serious conversation about succession planning and the future has to be had whether they win the World Series or not. With the collapse factored in I think it’s just increased the focus.
I think Henry and Werner would love to bring Theo in as CEO or President. I also don’t think they’d be particularly bothered if he didn’t. Theo wants to stay in Boston, is burnt out from the GM job but hasn’t shown enthusiasm for a President’s position. He’s undecided. Sounds like management is ready to push for Cherington to succeed Theo as GM. If Theo bolts for the Cubs this year so be it. They’ll figure it out. Still, it’d be more ideal if Theo stuck around for a year and transitioned Cherington into the role.
I think it sounds like they have a clear vision and Theo’s not on board yet. That’s not to say he won’t be at some point, but he’s undecided right now. And if that’s the case – Theo’s gotta figure out what he’s doing pronto. Can’t hold up the Cubs, that’s not fair to them. Can’t hold up the Red Sox, that’s not fair to them. The longer this drags out the worse it is for everyone, so we’ll see.
That’s ridiculous, the Red Sox have reportedly asked for compensation just to talk to Theo, and you think they’ll let him walk without compensation? Right.
where did you read that?
I havent read anywhere that it will cost them money to even talk with epstein. Name your source and I will apologise.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/10/red-sox-rumors-managerial-candidates-epstein-pitching.html
WCVB TV’s Mike Lynch wrote that they could ask for compensation just to talk to Epstein
Note the word COULD. The statement didnt say DID ask for compensation.
This is how BS gets started.
That’s how it was reported here, but if you took the time to actually read the article you would have seen that what Mike actually said was that they had internal discussions about asking MLB for permission; it doesn’t say what the result of those discussions were, whether they asked for said permission or not, and what MLBs response was if they did in fact ask for permission.
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2011/10/05/cubs_are_asking_to_talk_to_epstein/?camp=misc:on:twit:abraham
Third paragraph “Channel 5’s Mike Lynch reported that Red Sox ownership, in internal
discussions yesterday, were considering asking MLB for compensation from
the Cubs merely to speak to Epstein.”
Mike Lynch reported that Red Sox ownership, in internal discussions
yesterday, were considering asking MLB for compensation from the Cubs
merely to speak to Epstein.
Considering asking IS NOT did ask for compensation.
You guys need to get your facts straight.
You’ve resorted to arguing semantics. Being told to get facts straight by you is very amusing considering you’ve not provided one iota of credible information or backed up your claims as I’ve requested you do. My guess is you can’t, and you should just admit to us and remove all doubt that you don’t know what you’re talking about.
That was my story, literally word for word. It doesn’t matter if they asked for it or if they simply wanted to ask for it, the implication is the same, they wanted compensation from the Cubs simply to talk to Theo and you think they’ll let Theo walk for free.
I knew better than to think you’d actually accept the truth though (let alone actually apologize).
Or apologise…
Would that be apologizing with a British accent? ‘Cause that would be pretty cool.
I read his posts in an angry southern/Cajun accent. Think Swamp People.
I posted a link, it has to be approved and will probably show up here shortly. In a piece on the Boston globe’s website by Peter Abraham, and Nick Cafardo they sited a reporter who said that the Sox had had internal discussions and were contemplating asking MLB for permission to seek compensation merely to talk to Epstein.
And as BlueCatuli pointed out they mentioned it briefly in an article on this site a few days ago.
EDIT: and there it is!
approved!
Yay!
That’s all well and good, but it doesn’t mean they’re going to get it. In fact, they almost certainly won’t. They’ll get compensation if the Cubs hire Theo but I wouldn’t expect more than that.
No I wasn’t suggesting that they would, simply that they were seeking it. And if they were seeking compensation just to talk to him you can be certain that they’ll want compensation to acquire him. If they don’t get compensation to acquire him he doesn’t go anywhere.
No question about it. The Red Sox will get compensation if the Cubs hire Theo. It’s common practice.
And a respected member of the blogosphere confirms it. Thanks, John!
Thanks BlueCatuli. You’re check is in the mail!
Any time, man!
That is bulls**t coming from you. There is no way the Sox are saying we want money or a player just to talk to Theo. Dream on dude!
Is it? Because I posted a link to a reporter saying that they did just that.
You must be selective with what you read on this website.
Wow just realized MLBTR left out a pretty important part of that quote from John Henry. Here’s the full quote:
“So Theo is not going to be the general manager forever. Just as if Tito (Francona) had come back for the last two years, would he have gone past 10 years? I can’t imagine that he would have. I think that Theo will. He’s the guy now, he’s been the guy, we’ve had tremendous success.”
Seems to paint a different picture.
Wow towney. If that’s the full quote then I am in 100% agreement- that certainly seems to paint quite a different picture…we’re talking preschool fingerpaintings to Rembrandt
no no no, he’s just “saving face”
Read the name Dale Sveum in this article then thought…wait that dude was 3rd base coach for the BoSox and loved playing windmill with his arm and always send runners at the wrong time and worst time. Then I scroll down and see people also remember it as well. Good times indeed.
Also being a Yankees fan, to be 100% honest the Red Sox would be much better off without Theo. He pulls the trigger on too many trades and horrible signings. The man is trigger happy and the farm system is thin these days with position players and pitching. It looks like my Yankees’ farm system from 2000-2005 where they had pretty much nothing! Theo is a waste of money. I am a baseball lover and I love seeing tight Red Sox – Yankees races and I was greatly disappointed in their collapse. Theo needs to go just as much as Cashman needs to “gtfo” of the Yankees front office. Theo and Cashman are polar opposites. Like I said with Theo, he is trigger happy. Cashman is extremely conservative and all the major moves have not been because of Cashman either. The major moves were made and forced upon him through the ownership. The Yankees were never supposed to get Teixeira or Soriano if you recall. Thos are just two that come to mind.
This Theo would get fired stuff is kinda funny. His positives WAYYYYYY outweigh his negatives. I’m tempted to get in on this convo, but reading these comments is making my head hurt already.
I don’t think it’s that very many think it should happen, but are worried that it may. But that’s just me, of course.
Sveum was an aggressive 3rd base coach. Not much aggressiveness for the Red Sox’s late this season. Maybe the season outcome would have been different.
“Sveum was an aggressive 3rd base coach. Not much aggressiveness for the Red Sox’s late this season.”
Funny story: one of the one run games the Sox lost late this season (Either the clincher or one of the TB games, I forget, reasonably sure it was the O’s as I think Markakis was the fielder) involved Scutaro getting thrown out at home by a mile after being sent by an aggressive third base coach.
If anybody thinks that Epstein will jump ship & go 2 the Cubs …U are all dead wrong…there have been reports all over the internet and other sources that Epstein will deny the Offer..and the Cubs will try and get Cherington word has it that a replacement for Cherington is being considered but not been confirmed…But the Cubs need 2 get something done..NOW..Cashman is a NO…Espstein will be a NO….so there goes the top two GM spots on the wish list…Friedman and Hahn and Cherington…and now the Former Angels GM they all maybe interviews I would not be surprized if Cherington or Friedman gets it…Rumors are being said Friedman would rather concider Houston because it’s closer to his hometown and family…I’m rooting 4 Friedman and Cherington….as far a compension 4 Epstein…that will not happen…it would be dumb 4 the CUBS 2 give compension 4 a guy that has pretty much said NO what would the cubs get nothing….and thats WRONG….
John Heyman does not qualify as reports all over the Internet.
John Heyman does not qualify as reports all over the Internet.