The Reds have made it no secret that they want to add a top-of-the-rotation starter this winter, and today GM Walt Jocketty reiterated to John Fay of The Cincinnati Enquirer that starting pitching is the team's top priority…
“I can’t comment of other team’s players," said Jocketty, "although others are OK talking about ours. I will say we’re looking at improving pitching. The first priority is finding a starting pitcher. If [Francisco] Cordero leaves, we’ll have to look at finding a closer.”
The Reds have been linked to Huston Street and Andrew Bailey this week, and earlier this month Jocketty said the team is more likely to seek upgrades via trade rather than free agency. Internal solutions are also "something we'll discuss" according to GM, who said that Aroldis Chapman "probably" won't be one of those solutions. The hard-throwing southpaw was supposed to work as a starter in winter ball before a shoulder problem put that plan on hold.
Yonder Alonso is the club's primary piece of trade bait since Joey Votto is off limits. Tim Dierkes broke down the trade market for starting pitchers earlier this month, though not many of the clubs with available starters are in need of a first baseman.
Guthrie and Alonso as centerpieces.
Guthrie is not a TOR.
I could see the Rays dealing Shields for Alonso+
I think it would be Alonso+ insane amount of talent
Shields for Alonzo and Grandel.
only if they throw in zobrist
you’re nuts if your thinking shields and zobrist for alonso and grandal. there is no way that the rays do that unless you want to throw stubbs in that deal also
fine, but you throw in Longoria.
i could do this all day
fine, but you throw in Longoria.
i could do this all day
id be fine with that
James Shields just makes too much sense. The Rays need a better 1B bat, which Alonso could certainly provide. Obviously, there would be more to the deal than that, but I feel like it’s a perfect fit.
I think the Rays would want a catcher, first base is easier to fill. Kotchman could always come back.
Which could be the rest of the deal. Grandal/Mesoraco and Alonso in a deal for Shields seems like a pretty big haul for the Rays.
I think it’d be more like Alonso for Wade Davis, which I’d be fine with.
Don’t think I’d do that if I was Cincinatti.
nope…..top of the rotation, not davis
If you’re talking about Shields, you’d probably be talking about one Grandal or Mesoraco as well as Alonso. Cincinnati and Tampa Bay match up very well.
No way Tampa would get both (at least not Mesoraco for sure). Grienke/Haren type package is what they would get for Shields. Garza could be another comparable.
way too much
meso+yonder+bailey for zobrist and sheilds is what id offer
Good thing you are not a General Manager. Why would you trade 3 of the Reds top 10 prospects whom are all on the 40 man roster for a pitcher with a career ERA of 4 and is 72-63? You don’t move Yonder and Meso unless it is for a top 10 pitcher in baseball. Where would Zobrist play? All Reds fans have been waiting for Zack Cozart for 2 years and with Billy Hamilton about a year out, he would be expendable.
last i checked james sheilds was close to being a top 10 pitcher with an under 3 era… zobrist can play 1st/2nd/ss/3rd/LF so id play him in LF…. did you watch homer bailey the last couple years? he isnt a prospect anymore, also you have to give up something to get something….meso is expandable because we have grandal
but your right i did check his carer stats and now would rethink that…still a move needs to be made
I think they might make a play for Wandy. After this year, the Astros wont have to worry about the fact that they made an intra-division trade since they will be moving, and as everybody knows, the ‘Stros are looking for prospects, of which the Reds have a good supply of. Perhaps get Alonso or mayyybe Hamilton from them.
“The Reds have made it no secret that they want to add a top-of-the-rotation starter”
Wandy Rodriguez is not even remotely close to meeting the description of the player Walt Jocketty was quoted as looking for above.
Jocketty should call Frank Wren. I’d say Atlanta has a little bit of pitching they could part with.
They want to move Jurrjens and that would end badly for Cinci
What do the Reds have that the Braves need and willing to part with?
Alonso and Todd Frazier would certainly interest the Braves.
Alonso in a platoon in left with Matt Diaz or as a trade chip?
Platoon in Left for 2012 with the hopes he develops into a regular. Lots of team controllable years in Alonso so it would talk a big package to get him.
A center fielder that’s not a Scott Boras client?
NO to any pitching trades to the Braves, they always know who to dump and keep!!!
I agree that Wandy from the Astros makes a ton of since. Alonso would fit perfectly too. The Astros are going to the AL next year and he can always DH, plus no Lee next eyar blocking him. Even if Wallace,Singleton or Hiinze become the first basemen of the future, the DH option being there makes this trade very very possible.
Bailey for yonder
RP =/= powerful young 1B
a RP like bailey does
He hasn’t been healthy the past two seasons. I’m not a Reds fan, but I would not like that trade at all.
Beane is going to say “If they want Gio it will cost Grandal, Alonso, Heisey and either Bailey or Wood (maybe both).”
I think a very good reliever is a decent return for a blocked, soon-to-be 25 year old first baseman that figures to post around an .850 OPS.
Justin Masterson / Chris Perez for Alonso / Frazier / Rodriguez / Wood or Bailey
Nice……
You must have missed the “top-of-the-rotation” bit.
lol heck, why not throw in Cueto too?
Shields and another decent prospect for Alonso and Grandal. Rays have to come away with a catcher and Alonso to move Shields.
I can see Shields going to Cincy for Grandal, Alonso and maybe a few more goodies. I don’t think the Rays are dealing Shields for anything less than a Matt Garza-type package.
If Jock deals any of the youngsters (Alonso, Mesoraco, Grandal, Hamilton) for a closer, he’s a retard. I think the Reds could afford to hand over Grandal and Alonso and possibly a Frazier or Francisco type for Shields and someone who can play left field. Although, if the Halos are serious about Hanigan and the Reds could pull off a move for, say, Ervin Santana, I’d have to think Mesoraco stays put until Yasmani is ready for the bigs. AND, I’d be leery of any pitchers the Braves are willing to part with.
Getting Santana for Hanigan would be a coup.
Rays might be willing to move Guyer along with Shields. It would mean that Alonso would play LF and the Rays could always resign Kotchman to play 1st or maybe pick up Barton from the A’s.
Alonso has ONE position that is 1st base he can play the outfield but it must be emergency only situation.
I’m a hugh Alonso fan but he is ONLY a 1st baseman he will be a 30 homer guy and hit about 285 he hits lefties and righties he is a long term solution for any team that needs a 1st baseman or DH.
I wish the Indians would deal whoever ( pitcher or pitchers ) they had to in a deal that would net them Alonso he would solve their 1st base problem now and future.
I wouldn’t deal for Ervin Santana. If the numbers that I have are correct he’s only under team control thru the end of next season ($11.2 mil) with a $1 mil buyout in ’13…not sure what the option would cost. I don’t mind a big contract, but at least try to find a guy who would be under contract for more than a season.
club option is for $13 mil
a SP for a backup catcher?
Alonso, Grandal, and Francisco for Shields Rays dont let shields go for anything else. Shields had a 2.8 ERA in AL East. Moore will replace Shields and Alonso will play 1B and Francisco will DH.
Lots of talk in Seattle is centered on trying to trade Michael Pineda w/ prospects for Joey Votto or a package w/ Alonso in it. We need a bat of any kind or a catcher in Seattle and we have one of the top if not the best future arm available with plenty of other top arms right behind him to make him expendable for fire power.
Votto is not being traded. Period. End of Story. Jocketty has said it a hundred times.
Thats what we are told also but our radio guys are looking at Alonso and prospects for Pineda. What do you here there? Anything on our seattle guy, any interest?
I’m sure Pineda would be an interest to the Reds but haven’t heard any specific rumors.
I was thinking something along the lines of five years of Michael Pineda, one year of Brandon League, Chone Figgins and cash for Yonder Alonso, Yasmani Grandal and two years of Edinson Volquez.
The Reds get three current or former All Stars in Pineda (a potential ace), League (who will close until Brad Boxberger is ready) and Figgins (a reclamation project who is a potential leadoff hitter).
The Mariners get two promising but unproven prospects plus a reeling former All Star pitcher.
The cash component gives each team room for negotiations.
no to figgins
The pitching-poor Reds can’t expect to obtain two reigning All Star pitchers for two prospects without taking on some baggage (and the Mariners would be paying some of the salary for Chone Figgins).
The Mariners would have to pick up enough salary to make League/Figgins salary equal to what the Reds would be paying Volquez.
The Mariners would be doing the Reds a favor by taking on the projected $2.3 milliion 2012 salary of Edinson Volquez, who last season posted an ERA of 5.71, an ERA+ of 68 and a WAR of a NEGATIVE 0.3 in 20 starts (Volquez has not posted a WAR above 1.0 since 2008).
Getting Michael Pineda at the league minimum salary is the true bargain in the deal.
And the Reds would be doing the Mariners a solid by giving them 12 years of cost controlled offense while taking back the near worthless Figgins and his 8 million dollar deal.
I’d say this deal would be feasible if the Mariners kicked in 5 million, or the Reds would pay half of Arroyo’s 2013 salary if the deal had him instead of Volquez.
That assumes that Yonder Alonso or Yasmani Grandal, or both, become productive MLB hitters … despite being older than Michael Pineda, Alonso and Grandal are risky because neither has established himself at the MLB level.
Bronson Arroyo may be less tradeable than Chone Figgins because his deferred salary of $15 million becomes due immediately if the aging righthander is traded (coming off a NEGATIVE 1.3 WAR season nonetheless while awaiting a combined 2012-13 salary of $13.5 million).
Otherwise, Safeco Field could negate some of Arroyo’s extreme-fly-ball tendencies (just as Brandon League’s sinker would be well-suited for the Great American Ballpark).
I believe that Alonso will, though I’m sure he’ll become even a top 15 1B. He has some power but I think 25-30 homers will be where he settles, especially in Safeco, and he’ll get on base around a .375-.425 clip while hitting around .300
Grandal advanced three levels in his first year of professional ball (though it was only a few games at AAA) Usually when players can do that they’re going to at least be solid at the major league level.
Its not like either are some Brandon Larson look a like and near 30 dominating AAA after a career of nothing.
Pineda though would absolutely be the best player in the deal and I wouldnt’ trade him without both of those players at the minimum.
League is a solid pitcher but I can’t see paying a premium for a closer that has only been a closer for one season for a team that lost 95 games. Is there really that major of a difference between him and David Pauly other then the fact that one of them got to sit in the closers chair. Of course this deal isn’t treating League at a premium either especially since he’s in his last year before FA.
Volquez has been average to horrible the last two and a half years, but when he’s on he has the ability to be excellent, perhaps a few years removed from TJ surgery he’ll be closer to the all star pitcher he was in 2008, regardless I think he’s a far better choice to rebound then Figgins
Which brings us to Figgins I really have no idea what happened to him once he got to Seattle, his game has nothing to do with power so he shouldn’t have been hampered at all with the move, in fact with the larger OF he should have seen more his hits fall. Because of his ability to play all over I can’t say I haven’t been intrigued if the price was right mainly because the Reds need a caddy for Rolen, and it would be nice if said Caddy could hit leadoff or cleanup while playing LF as well. Figgins can’t do any of that if he’s the Seattle version, but the player he was with the Angels would work very well.
I think the Reds are giving up two high quality prospects and Volquez for Pineda and League and just taking on Figgins without Seattle eating the entire remaining contract (which would be a win for the Mariners in itself)
I would do the first part of the deal I think its fair to both sides, but Seattle probably wouldn’t sign off on it because Pineda is outstanding and you just don’t deal young cost controlled pitching unless you are winning big. So the Reds would have to take on Figgins along with say 3 to 5 million of his contract to get this done.
And honestly I would still likely do it. Alonso and Grandall are very good prospects and I think both will be solid to all-star level pros but Pineda is outstanding.
The Mariners would be doing the Reds a favor by taking on the projected $2.3 milliion 2012 salary of Edinson Volquez, who last season posted an ERA of 5.71, an ERA+ of 68 and a WAR of a NEGATIVE 0.3 in 20 starts (Volquez has not posted a WAR above 1.0 since 2008).
Getting Michael Pineda at the league minimum salary is the true bargain in the deal.
How ’bout Hultzen for Alonso?
I wouldn’t do that.
doesnt matter cause they cant do it anyway
ptbnl
i guess so but isnt that a long time to wait for a ptbnl? esp a pitcher.
The Reds are looking for an ace!
seattle talk radio chatter is a long way from the reds and mariners even discussing joseph votto. dave cameron has a wild imagination.
A lot of you on here are way over valuing Shields. Sure the Reds and Rays match up well, but I think the proposals that I’ve read suck. I’m thinking more Haren then Halladay.
Yeah, I mean, all he’s done is pitch 200+ innings for five years in a row, averaging 13 wins and 185 Ks a year. For a team who gets no fan support. In the toughest division in baseball. But yeah…he’s definitely overvalued.
Very well. But definitely no Halladay!!
I would want Alonso + Mesoraco for Pineda since he’s a guy you know can pitch in the bigs. Alonso looks like he’s a bit light on power for a 1B/DH.
Reply fail. This was for Phillip Miller.
Holy cow, Alonso’s only under team control through 2012 at $1.4 million. That’s cheap, but there’s not a ton of extra value there. I wouldn’t trade much pitching for him alone. Shields sounds about right if I’m the Rays. For the M’s I’d look at League and Vargas, M’s pay the salary difference.
He’s under team control until 2018. He’s not arbitration eligibile until 2015. He signed a major league contract which pays him more in his early years, but it doesn’t move up his free agency window.
I see, Cot’s is helpfully not showing his Arb years, just his first pro contract. He looks like a player that can get on base and has some pop. But his minor league numbers make his 2011 season look a bit flukey. His SLG was higher in the majors last year than it’s ever been in the minors. Still looks like a good hitter.
I don’t think I’d give up a Pineda or a Hultzen for him straight up, though. Those are potential #1 guys and Alonso has little defensive value.
Reds will want someone who can help this year and Hultzen isn’t that person. And I don’t think Alonso is enough alone for Pineda, but him + a decent piece or two should be.
Alonso has 6 years until he’s eligible or FA.
Which ever “top” starter they go after needs to have a high ground ball ratio considering that bandbox they play in
Justin Masterson but hes not gonna get traded
Guthrie for Alonso and Carlos Fisher
we are not getting alonso for guts. i would love to. but it isnt going to happen.
the fisher part is what kills me. “yonder’s not enough for our 17 game loser!!!” lol
Gio + fuentes or Balfour (former red)
for
alonso, grandal, leake, heisey
id say that still less than nolasco, morrison, yelich, ozuna asked from marlins + A’s include a serviceable reliever
I would stay away from Stubbs
Reds are not going to give up their #3/#4 starter + their likely LF starters (one of the two will be if not traded) + a top prospect catcher for Gio and a reliever.
wtf is up with all these fans coming up with offers of decent starting pitching for the reds top prospects? jj, if walt jocketty sends his #1 and #3 top prospects, plus his #3 SP AND the reds fourth OFer for gio gonzalez and some relievers, i will personally write your biography as a prophet of baseball. check gonzalez’s stats away from yellowstone national park in oakland; he’s ok but nothing special.
People must hate the Cincinnati Reds, that’s for sure.
“The Reds will trade Joey Votto, Yonder Alonso, Johnny Cueto for Brian Giles.” That’s practically what I keep reading.
If this happens the Orioles would have to go out and sign an SP or two though. Bedard and Capuano come to mind. Making their rotation look like this 1: Bedard 2: Capuano 3: Johnson 4: Britton 5: Arietta.
And the line up 1: Roberts 2B 2: Hardy SS 3: Markakis RF 4: Jones CF 5: Wieters C
6: Reimold LF 7: Reynolds DH/1B 8: Alonso DH/1B 9: Davis 3B
Im just tired of watching a bunch of slick fielding guys behind a decent pitcher with an offense who cant hit there way out of a paper bag. So if that means we pick up anyone who can flat out hit but is a bit average on D, that is fine. Cant we just be a bit average at some fielding to get a guy who can RAKE? Go M’s, make a deal with the Reds to get a bat.
The Reds and the 29 other teams are looking for pitching.
the only reasonable offer ive seen is shields for grandal and alonso. that might work. the reds won’t deal mesoraco and alonso unless a huge fish comes available.
Mesoraco and Alonso for Pineda and League/Vargas, would be great for both teams…
im a reds fan and i like this….id rather have grandal than mesoraco imo
from the reds perspective, that’s such a huge price. but it’s also fair considering the return. as a reds fan, i would probably bite as well, though it would be tough. so much has been built up about yonder and mes as the future, but this team needs an ace. bad. i like it
That’s two reigning All Star pitchers — Brandon League and 22-year-old Michael Pineda — for two promising but unproven prospects who are older than Pineda. I can’t see the Mariners doing that deal.
Yonder Alonso is no guarantee to be an upgrade over Seattle’s Justin Smoak and Mike Carp. Smoak, who is only four months older than Alonso, was listed ahead of Alonso in Baseball America’s Top 100 prospect rankings in 2009 and 2010 before losing his prospect status. Carp was the American League Rookie of the Month for August by hitting .313 with six homeruns and 25 RBI after posting a .343/.411/.649/1.060 line with 21 homeruns and 64 RBI in only 251 at-bats at Triple A in 2011.
Wow, I think you all are on crack!
Would the Braves/Reds Consider a Jair Jurrgens for Jay Bruce Swap? Then the reds can move Y.Alonso to RF & possibly sign Josh Willingham to play LF?
Reds Lineup:
C- Hanigan
1b- Votto
2b- Phillips
SS- Yanish
3b- Rolen
LF- Willingham
CF- Stubbs
RF- Alonso
Rotation:
Volquez, Cueto, Arroyo, Jurrjens, Leake
Braves:
C- McCann(3)
1b- Freeman(5)
2b- Uggla(4)
SS- Pastornacky(8)
3b- Chipper(2)
LF- Bruce(7)
CF- Bourn(1)
RF- Heyward(6)
Rotation:
Hanson,Hudson,Beachy,Minor,Teheran
Uhhhhhhh. WHAT?
Jurrjens for Bruce!? HUH!? Considering Bruce just got locked up to a deal, is only 24 and has enormous amounts of potential, that would make 100% no sense. But yet again you have Volquez in the front for the starting rotation so you might of not watched the 2011 Reds so if that is the case I forgive you.
Jay Bruce has his limitations (low batting average) but I think the Reds will probably do the Gonzalez for Alonso/Grandal and co. before they deal Bruce for Jurrjens. Which is to say, neither will ever happen.
Bruce has increased his homers in each of his four years in the majors and is primed for for a 35-40 HR with decent peripherals and is still just 24. He has 100 career homers before his 25th birthday and is signed to a team friendly contract. He’s well before his prime and is already on the cusp of elite status. No way the Reds trade Bruce for a pitcher who hasn’t made a full allotment of starts in three years.
Would the Braves/Reds Consider a Jair Jurrgens for Jay Bruce Swap? Then the reds can move Y.Alonso to RF & possibly sign Josh Willingham to play LF?
Reds Lineup:
C- Hanigan
1b- Votto
2b- Phillips
SS- Yanish
3b- Rolen
LF- Willingham
CF- Stubbs
RF- Alonso
Rotation:
Volquez, Cueto, Arroyo, Jurrjens, Leake
Braves:
C- McCann(3)
1b- Freeman(5)
2b- Uggla(4)
SS- Pastornacky(8)
3b- Chipper(2)
LF- Bruce(7)
CF- Bourn(1)
RF- Heyward(6)
Rotation:
Hanson,Hudson,Beachy,Minor,Teheran
I really like big game james, but i worry about him in GABP. His inconsistent past also worries me a little. If it was Alonso+ (not one of the catchers), then I might bite, but I’m afraid to send both of our big chips for him. If I have to give up both, and still maintain a realistic return, I think Pineda is more attractive. Younger, cheaper, more years, etc.
How about Greinke for Alonso, Cozart, Hamilton and Wood?
How about no chance in hell?
Seriously guys, where are you getting the good drugs from? All I can say is, THANK GOD you are not the Reds GM!
What about a JJ for Heisy and and another pieces or two??