The Braves made a run at Orioles outfielder Adam Jones earlier this month, according to Dan Connolly of the Baltimore Sun. Connolly reports that Atlanta offered Jair Jurrjens, Martin Prado, and a pitching prospect for Jones, but the O's "didn't bite," indicating how much they value their center fielder.
However, a source familiar with the negotiations tells Mark Bowman of MLB.com that the Braves merely expressed interest in Jones and did not offer any particular package. The O's told the Braves that Jones was unavailable, Bowman adds, then got back to the Braves later and asked for Jurrjens, Prado and "two other premium guys," which the Braves declined.
It was reported earlier in the month that the Orioles and Braves talked about Jurrjens and Prado, though it hadn't been confirmed that Jones was also discussed. Here are the rest of this morning's Orioles notes:
- Connolly and Roch Kubatko of MASNSports.com both address a report indicating the Orioles are in on Prince Fielder, concluding that Fielder coming to Baltimore is an extreme long-shot unless his asking price drops significantly.
- Although the Orioles are looking for starting pitching and Roy Oswalt is reportedly willing to accept a one-year contract, the righty probably isn't a realistic target for Baltimore. The O's play in the wrong ballpark and wrong division for Oswalt to boost his stock on a make-good deal, says Connolly.
- Connolly adds that the Orioles continue to discuss Wei-Yin Chen internally and externally.
I’m not sure I would’ve been happy to see them give up that much for him anyway …
i am an orioles fan and i would have wanted them to complete this deal. it would give us a solid pitcher to help our young pitchers, a solid utility guy in prado, and a prospect. i like jones but i believe he is a little overrated. he is a good player but not great like some people make him out to be. then we could have gone out and signed a center fielder like carlos beltran or coco crisp
Yeah, I think I would have bit and swallowed on that one, especially if the prospect was a tasty one.
I’m an orioles fan and i’m glad they didn’t. JJ would get crushed in the AL East. Prado only has value as a trade chip. The prospect was likely low as well. Let’s trade Adam Jones and not get back a single A or even B+ prospect. Great idea.
This confirms that the NL mystery team for Beltran is Atlanta…
I’d be okay with that, depending on the terms of the contract.
Its going to be at least 2 years maybe 3.. you ok with that?
Id rather wait and take a shot on one of the many outfielders hitting the market next year
Never gonna happen.
I would do two years on Beltran, not three. I agree that Wren will not spend the money to get a solid outfield free agent. The money will be there, but Id rather use it to lock up young guys. There will always be the Willingham/Ross types available to fill out a roster
I don’t think so. The Braves don’t have that kind of money.
The story from the Braves side is they wanted Jones but Orioles said he was unavailable and then the Orioles called back and asked for JJ, Prado, and two prospects and the Braves rejected that offer. atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=201112…
depending on the prospect, the O’s were so dumb. But it doesn’t really help them to get JJ and prado. Maybe now, but not at all 3 years from now. And that is more of the O’s timeline
So the Os were dumb, but Prado and JJ don’t help them? Make up your mind!
I know it sounds contradictory. But it would definitely be a good trade if we were a pitcher and 3B/util away from contention. But we aren’t, so regardless of how heavily it favored the Os, it isn’t for the type of players they should be investing in.
If you are looking at 2013 a package of C.Martinez, Z.Cox, J Jay & K McClellan would meet your needs. Martinez is a potential ace and Cox is a 3rd baseman. Both should be ready in 2013-14.
I would freaking love that package.
Are you high? Why would give away 4 pieces of the Cardinals 2013 or 2014 team to supplement the O’s 2013 or 2014 team for Colby Ras…I mean Adam Jones?
Cards 2013 team? Cox will not replace Freese, KMac is not needed in a rh loaded bullpen and may not even be with the team in 2013. Martinez is the prize but the Cards are loaded with RH pitching prospects. Also it wouldn’t be just for Jones, it would have to include a ss prospect such as Schoop or Givens also coming the Cards way
Freese will move to first when Cox is ready, as I expect Matt Adams to be a trade chip. Ryan Jackson is our shortstop of the future when Furcal’s deal is done. K Mac is not really needed, I agree, but Martinez is untouchable. If we were to deal any RH arm in our system, it might be Swagerty, but Miller and Martinez are totally untouchable..
Freese has less value at 1st, why move him. Cox is the trade chip, not Adams. I much rather have Adams power potential over Cox’s.
Swagerty along with a lower level pitching prospect such as Kelly would be the better move, might get the deal done.
Freese may have less value at 1B, but he at least has value there. In a couple years his ankles/range may not allow him to play 3B at all. Not to mention that there is no guarantee that Cox will stick at 3B either.
I was more replying to how you said it above as opposed to will actually be in STL in 2013. Martinez won’t be here yet, but he is untouchable. I agree Swagerty or perhaps Jenkins is a better choice. K-Mac isn’t a necessity in the bullpen, but will still be under team control. You just traded Colby Rasmus to allow Jon Jay to play everyday, so someone in the front office thinks pretty highly of him. And Cox quite possibly could still be moved to 2B or 1B like Brett Wallace as well.
That’s the thing, it’s all dependent on the prospect. As you said, Prado and Jurrjens are absolutely useless to the Orioles. Unless that prospect was a good one, there’s really no point in the Orioles accepting.
Except I would guess that Prado and Jurrjens could be flipped for a Haul
What kind of haul? That’s two separate deals for Jurrjens allegedly falling apart in just a few days. He’s a middle to back of the rotation starter with his peripherals and it’s not like he has a boatload of team control left. Jones would probably get the Orioles a better prospect than Jurrjens would get them, so unless that pitching prospect was a really good one, it’s just not a fit.
A middle of the rotation starter would = the Orioles #1 pitcher
The fact that the Os are bad doesnt make him better.
This makes no sense. Perhaps he would have been a #1 for the O’s but it doesn’t mean he’s a true #1. so we’d still be using a 3 or 4 as our ace. No thanks.
He’s not a true #1, I agree, but he’s still a good starter when healthy, and both him and Prado are more valuable than Jones. Dumb dumb dumb of your O’s to not take this trade. If you want to get younger, you still take the trade, and then if you want to you can trade Jurrjens (who is not old at all, and he’s younger than Jones) and trade Prado
younger with injuries. so basically older. And your arguement boils down to the idea that the O’s should pay for him above his performance level based on the team’s performance level.
Jurrjens is, what, five months younger than Jones? Who cares?
Regardless of any arguments about Jurrjens and Prado, this deal still makes zero sense for the O’s, unless the prospect was Julio Teheran. And since the O’s turned down the deal, the prospect probably wasn’t Teheran.
The fact is, Jurrjens and Prado are what they are. A middle to back of the rotation starter and a glorified utility player aren’t going to help the O’s in 2014 or 2015, which is when they might be competitive.
If the O’s were an arm and a decent bat away from contending, this would be a great deal for them. But they’re not. So it’s not.
LOL at Teheran being traded for Adam Jones.
I agree that Jurrjens is a mid rotation pitcher. However, Prado is MUCH more than a “glorified utility player”. How many utility players have had an .800+ OPS in 3 of their 4 years in the majors?
Maybe “glorified utility player” was the wrong term.
How about “poor man’s starting second baseman”?
So making the All-Star team the only year that he was used exclusively as a 2B makes him a “poor man’s starting second baseman”?
By any type of metrics Prado rates as an above average 2B.
Somebody mentioend the O’s should keep Jones because he’s still young, and I mentioned Jurrjens is younger.
No the fact is not Jurrjens and Prado are what they are. The fact is Jurrjens and Prado are more valuable than Jones and this is a deal the O’s should have took.
I’ve mentioned many times and not 1 person gave a good answer to it, or at least none that I’ve seen, a trade for Jurrjens/Prado/Prospect will get them more than Jones. It’s not that hard to understand.
That last sentence actually was difficult to understand.
What exactly are you saying there?
Jurrjens + Prado + Prospect = better trade value.
O’s should have took that trade and then they could have made a good trade for Good young prospects trading them if they didn’t want to hold on.
Jones doesn’t hold much value. He is ranked 21st in the last 4 years in WAR amongst CF’s only.
Dumb proposal by Atlanta, dumber of Baltimore to turn it down.
I doubt the Braves would trade Teheran for Jones straight up, let alone along with other players.
I doubt the Braves would trade Teheran for Jones straight up, let alone along with other players.
He had a WAR of 5.0 last year despite missing over a month. In your dreams is he a back of the rotation starter.
…. In what infeasible calculation of WAR? 1.5 on fangraphs. I think making lies should be flag as inappropriate worthy. You are degrading an internet conversion. Thats pretty tough to do.
According to whom? B-R’s giving him a 4.0 WAR and Fangraphs has him at a terrible 1.5 WAR (The same WAR as one A.J. Burnett).
He’s a middle to back of the rotation starter according to his peripherals who relied on a low .269 BAbip to survive 2011.
Atlanta had one of the best pitching staffs in baseball last year . And Jurrjens was arguably our best pitcher . And going from the Braves to the O’s would make him him easily the Orioles best starting pitcher . He has always pitched against the peripherals and done so consistently and successfully .
Before I get smashed for saying he was the best pitcher on our ENTIRE staff , I will say he was our #1 or #2 in our starting rotation .
100% agree with ya bro. They can sit there and knock Jurrjens peripherals all they want but at the end of the day it’s Jurrjens who isn’t allowing runs across the plate and that’s all that matters. They can speculate all they want as well, but until that speculation becomes a truth it’s laughable to call him a middle of the rotation guy. Outside of Huddy, Jurrjens is our most consistent pitcher and has more promise than Hanson IMO. Most people outside of Atlanta who don’t actually watch him pitch won’t recognize this though because all they have to go on is the stats.
Good call, Jurrjens would have no value. O’s rotation is stacked!
Your sarcasm is indicative of missing the point. Adding Jurrjens to the O’s pitching staff, even if his peripherals don’t get him eaten alive in the AL East, still leaves the Orioles as by far the worst team in their division, so what good does acquiring him do them?
Bringing in Prado and Jurrjens would basically be Duquette emulating the past regime’s problem of bringing in pieces in a half hearted effort to compete when they have no chance of doing so without a full rebuild. Duquette should be trading off every remotely viable Major Leaguer he’s got, with the exception of Wieters (Whom he needs to try to lock up), in an effort to rebuild their farm system.
” Adding Jurrjens to the O’s pitching staff, even if his peripherals don’t get him eaten alive in the AL East, still leaves the Orioles as by far the worst team in their division, so what good does acquiring him do them?”
The whole point in acquiring someone during the offseason is to make the team better . Even if it still doesn’t make the team a contender , you still want to emphasize on making your team better to at least give that team an oppurtunity .And with the extra wild card coming into play this next year , any team could possibly squeek into a playoff spot .
” Even if it still doesn’t make the team a contender , you still want to emphasize on making your team better to at least give that team an oppurtunity ”
The Orioles have been doing that for years and it has been failing and failing and failing while teams like the Blue Jays have managed to blow past them by blowing it up and starting over. The Nationals haven’t even existed as long as the Orioles have been in this holding pattern of mediocrity and they’re leaps and bounds closer to competing than the Orioles are, despite playing in what is the second or third best division in the MLB.
As for the Wild Card, first off, it may not be next year, that won’t be determined until as late as March. More importantly, that should be disclaimered as “Any team except the Orioles” as there seriously isn’t a single team in the MLB in worse position to compete for a playoff spot than the Orioles excepting MAYBE the Astros (And the only reason the Astros count as potentially as bad off is because they’re moving from the MLB’s second weakest division to its second strongest), and that’s a tough call.
Moving players is still required in the process of “blowing up” your team . So if blowing up your team is what you are suggesting , then it would make sense for the trade to happen . Prado and Jurrjens could essentially be moved again for prospects . And chnces are , you would be acquiring a prospect in the initial trade with Atlanta . I don’t believe the whole Prado-Jurrjens-and a prospect for Jones . But I could see Wren offering a Prado or Jurrjens with a prospect for Jones .
Bwa-ha-ha-ha !! Bwa-ha-ha !!
The Orioles could have traded both Jurrjens and Prado for prospects. Everyone on this board knows that the Rockies desperately want Prado. They have a couple of really good CF prospects. I’m also sure there are teams that would have traded good prospects for Jurrjens.
but that is not all certain. Making one move gives you more certainty than trying to trade and then trade again. But you are right, more value is more value.
If the rockies would turn loose of one of those CF prospect, Prado would already be there
I think the Rockies will trade one of them. According to one report the Braves almost traded Jurrjens to the Reds. Had that deal happened Prado was then going to the Rockies. I think the hold up for the Braves/Rockies trade is that the Braves don’t have an in-house back-up for Chipper at 3B. They evidently were going to get that type player from the Reds, probably Todd Frazier.
The Braves will get more than just Seth Smith for Prado so I’m thinking it is Smith and one of their two CF prospects.
Adam Jones doesn’t help them at all 3 years from now either. He’ll be a free agent at that point same as Jurrjens and Prado.
But he has a higher chance of resign. And if the return is for the same thing, whats the point of doing it? Just because?
the point is that the Os would have better players for those 3 years
so what? they aren’t going to contend with or without prado and JJ for the next two years. In the window of 4 years AJ has a chance of a better help to the team, and prospects for AJ has an even better chance.
Most teams would deal Jones for those 2 without thinking twice. Does that not imply that those 2 have more value in trades than Jones does? I’m not sure where you came to the conclusion that Adam Jones is going to land you a great prospect haul. Teams don’t care that Baseball America loved him a few years ago. He hasn’t shown much of anything in the majors.
If someone is willing to give up JJ and Prado for AJ but not one A- level and one B- level pitching prospect for him, then the new market inequality really is overvalued prospects.
you are correct. he has a “chance” to better help the Os…a slight one
The return is for better players. At no point has Jones been nearly as good as Prado was in 2009 and 2010. Jurrjens offers a very good pitchers that has consistently outpitched his peripherals (and his peripherals still paint him as a good #2/#3).
I’m not arguing that! They still help the O’s none! And a bird in the hand is worth 10 in the bush. If we can guarantee some good return prospect wise for prado and JJ, then sure, trade done. But you can’t. And if this rumor is remotely true it speaks volumes about Wren’s confidence in JJ’s health.
It speaks of the Braves trading from positions of strenght to fill needs. Although if you look at Atlantas history of trading pitchers and prospects (not including Wainwright) I would probably stay away too.
If it was not for the logjam that is the starting rotation for the Braves , Jurrjens wouldn’t be going anywhere . Jurrjens was ready to pitch again and was scheduled to make a start in the playoffs if needed before the end of the regular season . So his health should not be an issue .
That is why there are 3 team trades. Send Jurrjens and Prado to a different team, Orioles get a few prospects in return from the other team (lets say to the Yankees for Banuelos/Betances/Montero (not all 3)), Braves get Jones. Its interdivision, but it was just an example.
Interesting. Jones always seems on the brink of super-stardom but can’t seem to break through that last barrier.
Thats what happens when you are overrated. And I am an O’s fan.
Adam Jones is to CF as Derek Jeter is to SS. Wildly overrated defensively, but a decent bat to have there.
Pretty good comparison
How can you be overrated and win so many gold gloves? One or two maybe but he’s won like four or five (can’t remember)
How many GGs did he actually deserve?
the most recent GGs jeter has won are based on his name alone.
Are you that oblivious or were you trying to further cement his point about comparing Jones to Jeter?
He’s won one .
Rafael Palmeiro won a Gold Glove playing like 22 games in the field…..so in other words, they mean nothing
no he didn’t…
lol…stupid comparssion….one is a hof’er and the other is a avg star…
I have no idea why my previous two replies to you have gone to the moderator. The only thing I can come up with is that they apparently feel your spelling is too offensive to replicate.
yeah mine keep going there 2..bottom line jeter and jones shouldnt be listed in the same sentence unless its alphabetically(spelled wrong i know)
I agree with you there. Good day to you sir.
He’s a HOFer only because he’s played his entire career on the big stage of the New York Yankees.
So if he played his career on another team and got those 3000 hits, he wouldn’t be a HOFer then? I don’t see how he wouldn’t be a HOFer if his batting stats were teh same on another team
Yeah, he’d just be minus a few gold gloves. He wouldn’t be Derek “God” Jeter, discussed in such reverential tones, but he’d still be a hall of famer.
No. He’s a HOFer because of his 70+ career WAR. Something Jones will never sniff.
How about 3,000 hits, most by a SS or the lifetime .313 BA and .383 OBP? How about the fact that he’s 5th in WAR among all players from the last 15 years (Arod, Bonds, Pujols, Chipper).
No offense but that’s a really bad comparison. Jeter’s bat may be nothing special compared to others but then again, he is 36 and way past his prime vs Jones who is in his prime. However, if you judge Jeter as a whole, despite his defense, he’s been one of the best SS in the history of the game and as an offensive player his .313/.383/.449 with an avg of 15 hrs and 20 SB plays well at just about any position except maybe 1B where you might expect more power.
Jones on the other hand has never established himself as an all-star caliber bat though he’s certainly got the talent and age is still on his side.
A .750 OPS is now a decent bat? Bring back the steroids.
A lot of Braves fan overrate Jurrjens and a lot of Orioles fans overrate Jones.
That being said, this would have been a terrible trade for the Braves. My guess is that it was more like Jurrjens and a prospect for Jones…Prado would not have been in the deal too.
I agree . This was written by an O’s writer . There’s no way Wren trades both of them AND a prospect for A. Jones . He’s no moron .
I guess that just depends on what you expected of him. I think he’s doing exactly what I had expected him to do, which was play a decent CF and be decent with the bat. I never really saw him as a guy that was going to break out and lead the league in any particular category.
He is what he is at this point. He’s talented, but his approach at the plate and batting eye are never going to yield a high on-base percentage. There’s just nothing in his track record that suggests otherwise. He’s a good player and a charismatic, marketable guy, which is worth something, but ideally he’d be the 4th best guy on a good team and not the key building block of your franchise.
I agree. He appears to be a .280/.340 25 hrs, 10-15 sb with average defense who will make a couple of highlight reels at best. There’s value to that but never going to be a super star type.
He has never shown the ability to have an OBP higher than .335 , which he has done once . His career OBP is .319 . I would rather keep Prado out in LF with his career .341 OBP .
I wasn’t suggesting they should trade for him.
Let me reword….at BEST he appears to be a .280/.340 25 hr guy.
No . I wasn’t trying to suggest otherwise . I don’t believe that the deal was a 3 for 1 anyways . But I totally agree with you that the numbers you posted are at best his projected totals . And that would be stretching it .
Sucks, that would have been a great addition for the Braves. A Jones/Bourne/Heyward outfield would have been stellar defensively and Jones could have taken over in center if Bourne walks in free agency.
shows how dumb the O’s are. why not take that?
The O’s made the right call. Jones is a terrific defender as well as a outstanding hitter. Jurrgens good but is always injured and Pardo is coming off a down season. Depending on the pitching prospect I don’t think its enough for a player of Jones’ caliber.
sorry bud, but AJ is a below average CFer as far as defense. And his hitting would be a lot better if he could walk more. But near 30 HRs is good no matter how you spin it
He’ not below average are you flippin kidding me….Have you seen the plays he makes? He just needs someone to offer some tutoliage on routs to the ball. Dont even start me about his arm, its a cannon.
below average..psh.
UZR says he’s a below average defender.
UZR doesn’t account for tutoliage
Well then it’s hardly an “advanced statistic” as far a I’m concerned.
Is it enough for a player of Jeff Franceour’s caliber? Cause thats basically what Adam Jones is.
thats a bit harsh. Last three years– Frenchy- 3.8 WAR. AJ-7.3 WAR. Aj is a year younger, and can play CF(if poorly). He also has had steadily improving WARs and is entering his prime.
Jurrjens WAR the last three years: 7.2 (after an injury plagued 2010). Prado’s WAR the last three years 6.8.
Combined over the past three years: a WAR of 14.
comment is entirely irrelevant to the comparison of AJ and Frenchy. But yeah, I know AJ isnt as good as JJ plus Prado. thanks tho.
I think he was making the comparison with the two due to the fact that neither are really any good at getting on base .
Last year was the first year that Jones has actually managed to be more valuable than Prado, and it took a terrible staph infection that wrecked Prado’s season. Jones career best season last year was still nowhere near as valuable as Prado averaged being across 2009 and 2010.
Exactly. Even Prado for Jones straight up is not that great of a trade. Hey why not add in a guy who easily would be the O’s #1 pitcher, oh and a prospect too.
Braves loss /= O’s win. Not how trades work.
Which of these trades do you think would get better young prospects
1 – Adam Jones for ?
2- Jair Jurrjens, Martin Prado, and a prospect for ?
What the O’s should have done is traded Jones for them and then traded Jurrjens and Prado, maybe at some point during the season, next offseason or even right after they acquired them, who are both more valuable than Jones is. Maybe an argument can be made against Jurrjens though because of his health.
I am glad this didn’t go down . I still don’t see Wren trading all three for Jones . I think the O’s FO would have accepted the deal if it were for 3 players .
Jones has a career .756 OPS. He peaked at .792. He’s a decent bat, but he had a WAR of 3.3 on his best year. Jurrjens WAR last year was 4.0. In 2009 it was 5.3. Prado top WAR was 3.0.
The Orioles – if this offer was legit and I doubt it – made a huge mistake.
Prado’s top WAR was 4.4, in 2010.
Prado had a 3.2 WAR in 2009 and 4.4 WAR in 2010. The highest Jones ever got was 2.9.
Jones is +average at best in CF . And a great hitter he is not . His career slash line of .275/.319/.437/.756 says he isn’t anything special .
Because it helps them in the short term which is already basically lost. AJ can still be re-signed, and unless the prospect was one of the braves’ 3 top guys, it doesn’t make sense for them. It probably was a steal, yes, but not one the O’s should make. And JJ would get murked in Camden Yards. Hitters park in the AL East does not fit a low-K, low GB% pitcher.
I looked up park factors on ESPN and Camden Yards was #12 on the list for Hitter Friendly parks . Turner Field was #19 . Not as much of a difference as I initially thought . I could still see Jurrjens putting up an ERA of 3.50 in Camden Yards . According to his splits , the Yankees and the Royals are really the only AL teams that have done well against him .
I have no doubts that the Braves made an offer for Jones, but I highly doubt it was JJ, Prado, and a prospect. I could see JJ plus a prospect or prado plus a prospect, but not both of them AND a prospect. I feel this rumored proposal will get shot down within the next couple of hours.
Huh? It was already made and shot down earlier this month, did you not read the article?
I get the feeling a LOT of posters on here don’t read anything but the headline before posting.
I believe what he’s trying to say is the Braves will likely deny they ever made this exact proposal … they’ll “shoot down” the rumor, so to speak.
Yes. Thank you. It could also be possible that the writer Connoley could have been wrong. It just seems like the proposal should have been JJ plus a C prospect or Prado and an A or B prospect.
Yes. It was an article in the Baltimore paper. I have a feeling a lot of fans take what their writers write as the gospel. My point is, to me it seems like something that a writer for the hometown paper could write and be wrong. I think that before the day is out, there will be a counter to this article from DOB or some Atlanta writer saying it was not the proposal.
It depends who the prospect was. If it was just JJ and Prado and a C prospect, theres no chance anyone would trade Adam Jones for that. JJ would be destroyed in the Al East.
And Adam Jones would strike out more than normal in the pitching heavy NL East. It can go both ways. I think JJ and Prado is WAY more than enough for Jones, but that is just me. There’s only so long you can hold value on potential, and right now Jones is almost to the point if not past it where potential becomes the word that describes what he could have been. Personally, I think Jones has a lot of talent, but he strikes out way too much and walks way to little.
That is all definitely true. But would you trade for JJ and prado if you were as far from contention as the O’s?
I know I wouldn’t. Which is why when the Braves talking Prado and JJ with the orioles didn’t make much sense in the first place. Now, I can see the Braves interest in Jones, but if they wanted him, I think it would be centered around prospects like Delgado or minor, with guys like JJ Hoover or Salcedo, or something like that. 3 or 4 prospects for Jones yes.
Yay a braves’ fan gets what I am trying to say! It would honestly be basically a Lose- Lose, IMO
That’s why I said in the beginning I thought the rumored proposal will get shot down. And why I said maybe one of them with prospects, because that’s what the O’s are looking for.
You think it is but the Braves obviously did not.
It’s not obvious the Braves thought so. The one source on this trade is Connoley from the Baltimore paper. Think he has ever got a rumor wrong? I mean, this deal makes no sense at all. On the Braves side it is a HUGE over pay, and the O’s side it’s a couple of guys they don’t really want or need.
Yea I agree though that trade would of made no sense for either.
JJ would be destroyed in the AL East? That’s an interesting take considering his 1.86 career ERA against AL East teams.
Small sample size.
Jurrjens in 85.1 career innings has allowed 24 runs total against AL teams . That figures out to the tune of a 2.50+ , 2.60+ ERA . So to say that he would be crushed or destoyed by pitching in the AL East may be an overstatement . His ERA’s per AL teams aren’t horrible , but not great .
Red Sox/3.14 in 14.1 innings
Yankees/6.75 in 1.1 innings
Blue Jays/1.29 in 14 innings
Those are a little more respectable than maybe you originally thought , right ?
I am not a sabermetrics guru like a lot of people on these boards, but if someone wants to step in and help me out on that, I was given a very compelling argument on why Jurrjens stats are likely going to even out later in his career.
Further, I never argued Jurrjens was a bad pitcher, I just don’t like the idea of him pitching a massive amount of innings against the Rays, Jays, Red Sox, and Yankees, especially in that launching pad which is Yankee stadium. We need a pitcher who will help us against the Al East first and foremost, and while the sample size is nice, its just that.
Lastly, two years of Jurrjens vs. two years of Jones? To me Jones is a lot more valuable for this team in two years. The question is who would be willing to be re-signed.
I am not a sabermetrics guru like a lot of people on these boards, but if someone wants to step in and help me out on that, I was given a very compelling argument on why Jurrjens stats are likely going to even out later in his career.
Further, I never argued Jurrjens was a bad pitcher, I just don’t like the idea of him pitching a massive amount of innings against the Rays, Jays, Red Sox, and Yankees, especially in that launching pad which is Yankee stadium. We need a pitcher who will help us against the Al East first and foremost, and while the sample size is nice, its just that.
Lastly, two years of Jurrjens vs. two years of Jones? To me Jones is a lot more valuable for this team in two years. The question is who would be willing to be re-signed.
I consider that a bullet dodged by the Braves. Why offer that much for a guy who has never been more than a 2.9 WAR player in a season?
Not to mention the 2 players offered for him have gone above 2.9 twice already
Orioles are so dumb
If Tehran or Vizcaino was in the deal the Orioles made a mistake.
but how realistic is that? Im leaning towards not at all. Maybe without JJ, Vizcaino or Delgado would be on the table. Then it would be a good trade for the Os.
i was definitely not Teheran or Vizcaino. It was most like one of the next-tier-down prospects like Zeke Spruill or JJ Hoover
I don’t know who is dumber. The Braves for offering that, or the O’s for not taking that.
That package is quantity over quality and it doesn’t fit the Orioles’ needs at all unless that’s a really good pitching prospect. Prado and Jurrjens are absolutely useless to the Orioles who aren’t even remotely close to competing. Holding on to Jones doesn’t do them much good either, but this was absolutely not the right deal to part with him on. A good pitching prospect and a pair of fringe prospects is of more use to the Orioles than this.
Jurrjens is younger than Jones and is only 25. Prado is 2 years older and doesn’t hit much for power but he still has a solid bat and plays hell of a lot better defense.
The O’s are not going to get any kind of deal better than this. The fact that both of them were offered for Jones alone is laughable. Prado’s WAR has been higher than Jones’ WAR the past 3 years total and Jurrjens would probably become the O’s opening day pitcher right away.
2 horrible decisions.
JJ is overrated. Not as Much as AJ, but still. And he would have a 4-4.5 ERA in Camden, (with a 40% GB rate and 5.5 K/9). Like i have said a bajillion times now, just because this favored the Os in the perspective of the Braves doesn’t mean it helps the O’s.
Anyone in baseball can help the O’s.
FYI: Field dimensions –
Camden Yards in Baltimore –
LF: 333 ft
L center: 364 ft
L center (deep): 412 ft
center: 400 ft
R center: 373 ft
RF: 318 ft (note: 25 ft-high wall)
Turner Field in Atlanta –
LF: 335 ft
L center: 380 ft
center: 401 ft
R center: 390 ft
RF: 330 ft
What makes you think that Jurrjens would fare that much differently on the O’s than playing at Turner Field? Yes, the AL East has good hitters, but so does the NL East. Jurrjens has only given up 8 ER in almost 39 IP vs. AL East teams in his career, while not ever having faced the Rays. You were saying that if JJ went to Oriole Park that ERA would be mid-4, but the fields aren’t that different. In fact, I’d say that Turner Field is pretty similar to Oriole Park with one main difference being the 25 ft-high wall in RF at 318 ft in Oriole Park.
Field factors arent just the length of the park. In the last reasonable amount of years, Camden Yard has been the second most favorable park to hitters, behind Arlington. AND, his periphs say he didnt even deserve the sub 3 ERA he got. So I am pretty confident he would have a bad year in Camden.
I’ve been following every Jurrjens rumor – and there’s been a lot – for 2 years. I’ve been clamoring for him to be traded during the All-Star break, to no avail. But I have to admit, that the man pitches above his numbers. For example, take a look after the All-Star break 2011 where he only started 7 games to a tune of 5.88 ERA. What was wrong? Knee injury. Now, I’ll certainly agree that he won’t pitch 1.87 ERA like he did before the AS break every year, but if you look at his career numbers, he won’t be that far off. He’s the type of guy that simply falls under the radar, but take in mind he’s a very different pitcher when he has a nagging injury, which has been the case much of the last 3 years. That, in my mind, is his scarlet letter. Not his stuff. His fastball lost 2-3 MPH last year during his All-Star campaign of him putting up that 1.87 ERA. Explain that to me. Also, take in mind he’s only 25 (26 in Jan), so according to history, he’s not even at his peak yet. Considering he doesn’t look like he’ll have arm trouble, that’s pretty scare stuff when you think that he has some room to grow.
Still not a good fit. Jurrjens is vastly overrated and Prado’s coming off a bad year. Like I said, it comes down entirely to the pitcher involved. If it was a good one, the Orioles flubbed, if it was a useless one, the Orioles didn’t have any incentive to move him.
I agree Jurrjens is overrated but he is better than any other SP the O’s have. And yes Prado is coming off a bad year but it’s the first bad year he’s ever had. Jones has a career OBP of .318. Prado’s OBP has only been that low just 1 time (happened to be in 2011)
Jurrjens may be better than anything the O’s have, but the O’s don’t need any pitchers with only two years of control left as they don’t have even a remote chance of competing in the next few years. Swapping out Jurrjens for another prospect would be a better fit considering the demand for Jurrjens doesn’t seem to be particularly high.
And then they could of traded Jurrjens and Prado and got something better during next year or next offseason, and if Jurrjens played healty and if Prado had a rebound year, then they would get something better than what they would have for Jones.
exactly. Jurrjens has a decent first half and imagine what you could flip a #2 pitcher for at the trade deadline…
seems like a very high risk. an injured player who doesn’t fit the Os at all, has to get lucky for a 1/2 year in order to win this trade
lucky or pitch like he consistantly has in the past
… no, lucky. Like he was last year. And he wasn’t the year before. Jurrjens is two years removed from numbers that would fly in Camden Yards.
On the other hand, Jurrjens could’ve pitched to his peripherals (I.E.: Poorly) and Prado could’ve repeated his 2011 numbers and suddenly the Orioles are left holding the bag with absolutely zilch to show for it.
Jones isn’t elite or anything, but he’s a good starting CF which will probably net them more in trade than a utility guy and a back end starter. I just don’t see that the reward outweighs the risk for the Orioles here unless that pitching prospect is a really good one.
And at the same time Jones could be back to what he was (.260/.300/.400, 20 homers). Can’t predict baseball.
he is young, and has improved his WAR every year. My money would be on less risk with AJ
But my money would be on getting higher prospects in returns for JJ/Prado than for AJ alone
Does Jurrjens continually outpitch his peripherals?
Also both Prado and Jurrjens have histories of success, id rather trade for someone who has continually been a plus player for several years before having one off year, rather that for a player who might reach his perceived potential in his late 20’s.
no, he doesn’t
Why not go after pitcher’s with 2 years of control left? They can’t get anyone to sign with them because they’re the Red Sox/Yankees lap-dog. Why not take a different approach, trade for good people, find some success with them, make them feel welcome, then pay them market value rather than making an unsuccessful bid to go after free agents out of your reach like Prince Fielder or Mark Teixeira – whom they’ve been rumored to have interest in. The Nationals should take the same note.
“Why not go after pitcher’s with 2 years of control left?”
Because they don’t have a snowball’s chance of competing in that timeframe. Part of your equation is “finding some success” and that’s something that you simply don’t have much shot of in Baltimore right now.
Baltimore’s been trying to compete for ten years now to disastrous results, if they want to compete, they need to emulate Toronto and stop trying to tread water and go full rebuild. Gut the MLB team, fix their awful farm system and work to the future.
Check out a recent article on the Braves site written by MLB writer and Braves beat-writer, Mark Bowman. The article states that the Braves never offered JJ, Prado for Adam Jones and that they did ask about Jones only to be told he was not available. Then, they were contacted by BAL to see if ATL was interested in trading JJ, Prado and “2 premium prospects” as the source put it, for Jones.
Take in mind that Mat Latos was traded for 1 MLBer (Volquez) and 3 prospects (2 premium). So, if this is true and BAL wanted 2 former All-Stars and 2 premium prospects (most likely pitching) for Adam Jones – who is a FA in 2014 and also a former AS (’08) – is laughable.
Something told me this rumor was too dumb to be true lol.
i don’t really understand why the braves would do that… if there was a prospect offered it had to have been a very low rated one. I don’t know how the orioles could turn it down if it was jj, prado, and someone like minor/delgado/vic/…
Good for the O’s. Giving up Jones for 3 B-listers would have really taken them back. Jones is young and is slowly but surely improving. I’m looking forward to a better season from him.
Prado > Jones
B-listers? You saw what Jurrjens was doing before he got injured, correct? He was better than Halladay, Lee, Kerhsaw and Verlander in multiple categories at one point
Yea and when he was injured the year before that too. Stop overvaluing an injury prone pitcher.
I was merely stating what he is capable of doing when he is healthy.
“Wen Jurjjens was healthy, he could leap tall buildings in a single bound.”
Well, he ain’t healthy. So I ain’t gonna pay full price for a broken car.
How do we know he is not healthy? Reports were that he was going to start a game in the postseason, had the braves made it.
Obviously Braves would be getting a stronger response on him had he not finished on the DL, but its not like he just had Tommy John where there is a strict time frame for recovery.
if I was eating food I would cough it back up. If you are comparing ERAs, then yes, I suppose. Otherwise no. Ks? no. BABIP? no. GB%? no. FIP? no. xFIP? hell no. BB/9? maybe. AND he did get injured. so no matter his value before injury, that is not his value now
I don’t buy into BABIP (like most sabremetrics) and GB% doesn’t matter as long as you are getting guys out. Strikeout, ground ball, fly ball, line out, pop out it’s all the same except strikeouts and ground balls are sexier.
“Strikeout, ground ball, fly ball, line out, pop out it’s all the same except strikeouts and ground balls are sexier.”
Really? A strikeout is the same as a groud ball, fly ball, line out and pop out?
Tell that to the Pitcher who has a horrible defense behind him. Tell it to the pitcher who has to pitch his way out of an inning b/c one of his teammates didn’t hustle and let a guy get on base. Sorry. The reason why those pitchers w/ high K rates are valued so highly is because they don’t allow players to reach base. You are VERY, VERY misguided on this one.
notice the word “out” at the end of the terms i listed. A pop-fly could drop between two clueless outfielders like we see far too often but a pop-out means it was a pop-fly that was caught. Sorry if you misunderstood my terminology
Strikeouts are “sexier” because they almost always result in an out. Jurrjens is grossly overrated by Braves fans.
strikeouts also lead to 6 inning starts. I’d say Braves fans overrate Jurrjens, but not “grossly”. Id also say everyone underrates Prado. Neither of these guys were labeled “prospect” as was Adam Jones, which has led us to this whole production vs potential quagmire.
you keep going back to AJ being overrated to validate your overrating of JJ. They are completely separate. JJ is very much grossly overrated. AJ too.
i see it as relevant if they are being discussed in trades for one another.
i was making the “prospect” point to make light on the larger issue of promise vs performance
I meant for this strand of convo, which was about the overrating of JJ. And regardless of him living up to his promise, if someone else sees it worth the risk for YOUNG talent, we should trade him.
GB are hardly sexier. And you can not buy into sabermetrics if you like. But probability says the a strikeout> groundout> fly ball> line drive. If JJ possesses some skill to control the ball after it hits the bat that no one else possesses, then throw all the nerds out of the window. But since he doesn’t have telepathy you can’t compare him to Halladay, Lee, Jershaw, Verlander, or two dozen others. That is all the time I will spend on someone who refuses to recognize any usefulness of statistics.
What are you talking about? Jake Westbrook screams sexy…:S
“B-Lister” is a little strong, but what your saying is a terrible point.
If pigs could fly, no one would be worried about bird crap and…
IF JJ was that strong of pitcher consistently, and was expected to replicate that performance consistently, at 26 years old (in 2012)…
A. He wouldn’t be traded, but locked up long term.
B. If he was being traded, there would be 29 teams calling about him.
C. He would not be in a trade rumor with others for Adam Jones.
D. I actually like Adam Jones!
His peripherals don’t match, his competition doesn’t match, his injury history doesn’t match, and your fantasy world future projection of JJ doesn’t match.
He is a nice pitcher but to try and compare him to those 4 is laughable at best.
“Giving up Jones for 3 B-listers would have really taken them back.”
Seriously, taken them back? Unless they want to duplicate what the Houston Astros did last year, how much further back can they go? This team will still finish in last place in the AL East next year and won’t be relevant anytime soon. Maybe if they played like the Texas Rangers did that point may be valid, but its just laughable when they had the worst record in the AL.
WAR the past 3 seasons
Jurrjens – 6.6
Jones- 7.3
Prado – 8.8
Terrible move by the O’s.
That would have been an overpay. 2 all stars and a prospect for basically Jeff Francoeur. And it would have hurt our depth. We need Prado to cover 3rd. We need JJ just in case Hanson or Hudson can’t go. I think we should just find a backup shortstop and head into spring training.
I agree that it would have been an overpay but let’s not try to fool ourselves into thinking that Adam Jones compares to Jeff Francoeur.
Jeff Francoeur career OPS – .746
Adam Jones career OPS – .756
Both are guys with a little speed and a little power who can’t take a walk to save their life. They are very comparable.
I agree, luke scott and a backup SS and were done until the all star break.
I have a real hard time believing that package was offered for Jones. But if it was, tyhe O’s just showed the ineptness their FO has.
PHEW!!! Dodged a bullet on that one. Adam Jones is barely worth trading ONE of those players, let alone both of them. As well as a prospect to boot? What were the Braves thinking on this one? I am so glad that nobody in the Orioles office has a clue.
It was a steal, yes, but he is worth more than one of them. He is still only 26 and coming into his prime. I applaud the Os for not taking this tho, as it doesn’t make sense for them long term. Unless they moved Jurrjens for pitching prospects before he played one game in Camden.
I agree with many of the people posting here that Jones is seriously overrated and his signs of ‘improvement’ are statistically insignificant and marginal at best. This guy is a bust. Orioles would have been lucky to have moved him for such a drastic over payment by the Braves. I fully expect this rumor to be shot down in the next few hours. Both the Orioles and Wren look like idiots if this offer was true.. and us Braves fans are taking a big sigh of relief.
He is overrated. I am not arguing that. And the return was greater for the Os. But it still makes no sense for them! What the hell is having JJ and prado going to do for the O’s? Improve them 3 Wins over having AJ? Maybe. But 2 years is it. AJ has more potential to sign long term, OR, if he doesn’t, we need a return that is younger than this.
Yup Jones should be traded for younger controlled guys, not someone who is gonna walk soon
As I said, Jones is not really going to get younger controlled guys. For 1 thing, Jurrjens is younger than Jones, and secondly Prado > Jones. They were better off getting both and then trading both of them. They would have got something much much better than they would have for Jones.
Younger in terms of service time.
I believe someone mentioned all of them have 2 years left of service
Yes, I understand the obvious. Younger than that would mean guys with 0-2 years, or perhaps a couple of prospects that might be a year or two away from the majors.
I disagree. Seth smith and change is uninteresting for AJ. AJ absolutely could return young prospects. He is overrated, which makes for a market ineffiency. Trade him to ATL for one of the top 3 pitching prospects or minor, or shop him elsewhere.
i would trade minor plus a B prospect for him. would not want to let go of delgado or tehrahn for him though
Yeah, only thing that scares me is he has a worse GB% than JJ. sends my mind to thoughts of Matusz.
Yea just like Jurrgens and prado are overrated.
Jurrjens is overrated. Prado is actually underrated.
prado is rated justttt right.
As a Braves fan….thank god.
I am an Orioles fan and that is a terrible trade. The only incentive I’d have to do it is if I knew Jones was going to walk. Theres good reason the Braves are pushing so hard to trade Prado and Jurrjens. Jurrjens statline is not sustainable, especially not in the Al East.
Yeah but the Padres would have given them Rizzo for Jurrjens, and the Rockies or Tigers would have coughed up talent for Prado
? I doubt Jurrjens would get you Rizzo. If so Id be so happy. And if they want to flip JJ and prado, they should do it – ala a 3 way trade. Having them on the roster doesn’t guarantee a flip, and does nothing to help the team. JJ would have to be moved before he pitched in the AL East or in camden. If you could trade AJ to the Braves, JJ to the Pads, Rizzo and Prado, and a SP prospect from somewhere to the Os? Freaking deal.
i am an orioles fan and i would have wanted them to complete this deal.
it would give us a solid pitcher to help our young pitchers, a solid
utility guy in prado, and a prospect. i like jones but i believe he is a
little overrated. he is a good player but not great like some people
make him out to be. then we could have gone out and signed a center
fielder like carlos beltran or coco crisp
Uhhh…Adam Jones hasn’t once posted a .800 OPS yet in his career and strikes out an excess of 110 times…OBP is barely .300 vs LH, has only hit 20+ HRs once.
Yeah…he’s worth Jurrjens, Prado + prospect. Yeah.
Wren must be desperate trying to find Bourn’s CF replacement if this report is accurate.
I have to agree. We’ve already heard rumors this offseason about Cain, Fowler, Wheeler, and now Jones as possible CF replacements if Bourn leaves. The fact that Wren has inquired now on 4 CFs tells me he either isn’t very confident he can sign Bourn to an extension or that he already knows Bourn won’t sign an extension.
gotta give duquette the benefit of the doubt here and assume that the offered prospect wasn’t one with a lot of upside.
Jones is going to walk. worst kept secret in Baltimore is that he wants out as fast as possible.
If that’s the case, Dan Dumbquette should have taken that trade if it was indeed valid.
You mean best? I’ve yet to see anything from Jones that he wants out. I wouldn’t blame him, but it hasn’t been in the media.
An interesting note on this trade is that Jones, Jurrjens, and Prado are all eligible for free agency in 2014. As not a fan of either team, I thought this was a very fair trade offer. My guess is that the Orioles think that Jones is only going to get better and that this might blow up in their faces if Jones learns to take more walks and starts boosting his stats to .300 / 30+ HR consistently.
I’m getting the vibe that the Braves are really trying to cut ties with Jurrjens…I wouldn’t want to be the sucker with the imploded pitcher after giving up a decent CF either. At this point, it’s not what Jurrjens has done in the past. It’s what they expect from him in the future and if ATL doesn’t expect much, imagine what he’d be facing the AL East in OPACY.
I still would like to trade Jones but for younger, more controllable talent.
I don’t see how can the prospect be a good one when they are including two years of JJ and Prado. That is probably the reason Orioles turned it down. They might be looking for more younger and high ceiling guys.
You can’t expect younger guys with high ceiling for Jones. The O’s are not going to get a better package than that.
..why not expect younger guys? Wren set his market value of AJ if this rumor is true. So the os could reasonably return younger guys from the braves, of which there are a plethora of, or shop him elsewhere using this as an arguement point.
I said younger guys with High Ceiling.
if this report is true..which im having a very hard time believing it is. I’d like for the braves to have Adam Jones, but not for a list of solid prospects
Im not asking for more than they offered, just different. does that make sense? If they offer the worth of JJ and prado in prospects, deal.
For some reason the Orioles have thought for years that Markakis, Jones, and Guthrie can carry this team when they can’t.
Wrong. They have failed because they have overvalued and relied heavily on their own pitching prospects AND they have continued to sign aging, declining vets like Vlad and D-Lee.
D-Lee was worth the shot. Vlad was a horrible signing. You forgot to mention the complete overvalueing of mediocre to downright bad RP. I think DD will stay away from at least those mistakes.
The O’s need at least one top pitching prospect in return. They are most likely not going to compete in the next two years, so why would it benefit them to trade for two guys that will be FAs in two years?
this is a good point
One problem, Adam Jones is not landing you no top pitching prospect.
Wow, the Orioles really are not trying to win. I see Angelos is still trying to keep attendance down in the hopes MLB will not allow the Expos to move to Washington.
And that is why the Orioles will continue to suck
The summary says that this deal was offered “earlier this month.” On Dec. 11, it was reported here on MLBTR that the Braves “he Braves have some concern about Tommy Hanson’s shoulder, meaning they may end up holding on to Jair Jurrjens rather than dealing him.” This deal of JJ/Prado/prospect for Jones could’ve been offered before the Braves concern of Hanson was reported, and so the Braves probably aren’t so intent on cutting ties with JJ, as so many people here are stating.
I think Adam Jones, regardless of his defensive skills, would warrant several high level prospects at least. I’m glad the Orioles turned down the trade, because I think the Braves need to hang on to Prado and JJ, at least until the All-Star break. If Hudson (back surgery) and Hanson (injury) hold up through the first half, and JJ has a decent year up to that point, I think that point is the right time to trade him. His stock, with a good year, will be higher, and the Braves will have a better idea on whether or not to keep Prado.
All you people saying that Adam Jones isn’t worth it need to look a little further into a philosophy I am heavily in to. Changing teams can often lead to changes in a players game. Everything from the barometric pressure to the amount of people in the stands affects how a player performs so a change in ballparks might be good. The NL East is a competitive division but it’s theoretically competitive so maybe he’ll thrive on that. The NL is played differently and consists of better teams (in my opinion) than the AL so maybe he’ll thrive on that as well.
cue the arguments on that one
on the flip side, maybe he’ll flop in a competitive environment. i.e nate mclouth
very possible. I wanted to include negative effects in there but i figured i’d keep the glass half full
If the NL is better than the AL, why has the AL absolutely dominated the inter league games the past 7-8 years?
why has the NL won the all-star game two years in a row?
lol, really?
So, you’re basing your argument on 2 exhibition games? Why not look at the 1500 games the actual AL teams have played against the NL teams?
Oh, perhaps it’s because the AL leads 844-785 since 2005.
So, which league is better?
which league was better in 2005 or which one is better now?
The NL last won inter league play in 2003. I think that is quite telling, and much more so than the results of 2 exhibition games.
The N.L East was 44-37 against the A.L. last year.
Braves were 10-5.
In 2010 the N.L East was 44-40. Braves were 9-6.
well. one major reason is because the AL has a DH on their team. that makes a big difference when an AL team is hosting an NL team
And the NL has pitchers that have swung a bat before when they host an AL team.
As a Braves fan, I’m thankful the Orioles didn’t do this. The Braves would definitely have been hosed in this deal. It’s disquieting to hear Wren is shopping two very good players for such a paltry return. Adam Jones is not all that.
he’s a very good player at a premium position. i’m not sure there are five CFs you would take over him, no questions asked. it’s easy for any half-assed fan to pull up fangraphs and cite his low UZR as evidence that he’s a “terrible” defender, but that selectively ignores that fact that a) the defensive stats are, by their creators’ own admission, enormously flawed and b) you’ve probably never watched him play. great defender? no. more than capable of holding his own? yes. upside? no doubt.
I can name more than 5
Ellsbury, Granderson, Kemp, Hamitlon, McCuthen, Victorino, Chris Young, Bourjos
Might even be missing other easy ones
You’re could right on 5 (you could argue the point), but IMO I think there’s 3 any other team would definitely take over him no questions asked…..Matt Kemp, Andrew McCutchen, and Michael Bourn.
1. Ellsbury
2. Granderson
3. Kemp
4. Victorino
5. McCutchen
6. Bourn
7. Bourjos
Those are 7 guys off the top of my head that I’d take over Jones in a heartbeat.
the actual number of guys you would take over him is immaterial. the point is that he is, regardless of how many guys you would take over him, a very good player. not a star. a very good player at a premium position. so while he might not be “all that,” he’s certainly worth more than that alleged package unless the prospect had real upside.
Prado has more value by himself than Jones when playing at his natural position (2B), another premium position. Then adding JJ AND a prospect? I don’t buy it.
not for the orioles, who have Roberts (deadweight right now) and an interesting prospect in Adams (bat upside, glove downside). furthermore, 2B is not a premium position.
id throw bonafacio out there considering money
How about his offense? Never has posted a .800 OPS, hit 20+ HRs once, strikes out 110 times a year, barely .300 OBP vs. LH, etc. etc. He’s overrated.
Five: Kemp, Victorino, Granderson, Ellsbury, McCutchen.
no argument with anything you said right there.
ive seen him plenty, and I think he would be a great defender if he wasn’t so darn lazy out there.
strongly disagree, and i think that’s lazy analysis from someone who has “seen him plenty”. he played HARD last season, which is much more than i can say for our “working-class hero” in RF.
I don’t think this is true, guys. Wren isn’t dumb enough to offer that much, and the Orioles aren’t dumb enough to turn it down.
I’ll bite.
OriLOLs.
Give up one decent player for 2-4 good ones? No thanks, we’ll continue to be the worse run franchise in baseball. Come on, Baltimore.
Shows how bad the orioles front office is… Adam Jones is way overrated …
Yeah, zero chance that the Braves offered this. Wren isn’t that dumb.
A lot people seem to think that Prado doesn’t have a lot of power because he doesn’t hit a lot of home runs.
However:
2008 OPS – .838
2009 OPS – .822
2010 OPS – .809
2011 OPS – .687 (given the other three years this is likely an outlier due to the .260 BABIP)
Prado has a lot of power for a guy who can play 2B, LF, 1B and 3B.
Prado’s WAR in 2010 was 4.4. Jones has never even come close to posting a WAR like that. There is no chance that the Braves would have included Prado AND Jurrjens for Jones.
And Prado was playing close to his career averages before his staph infection last year. He’s been remarkably consistent otherwise. Prado isn’t as valuable as a LF as he is as a 2B, but at the latter position, he’s more valuable than Jones has ever been. AND adding Jurrjens AND a prospect to this? Ridiculous. Wren wouldn’t ever propose that.
I have been saying the Os to get Prince for a while and i think it would be perfect for Prince too. He will be playing in 4/5 ball parks that are hitter friendly for left handers. I think its time the Os make a splash and get some attention
Well if the Orioles did this trade who would have been our Center Fielder?!?
The trade I have been suggesting would be the Orioles getting Hanley Ramirez and Chris Coghlan from the Marlins and they in return would get Adam Jones and others.
Also, I am sure the Brave fans were all for this trade….I doubt it.
Plus, what are the Braves Baseball Writers saying about this, we have the O’s side, what about the Braves?
Lastly, no to Prince Fielder, why are the Orioles still being mentioned?
Yes to Oswalt and Kurada!
PS I don’t care if I am the only one for all this, I like standing alone! =P
Beside I am better off that way!
prado is a better hitter than jones, just sayin
Facts are Baltimore needs a Black athlete for marketing purposes and Jones is that guy.
Everyone saying the Os are dumb clearly don’t know anything about rebuilding. If the Os trade away Jones, it will be for a top level prospect. Some say he’s overrated, and that’s fair. He’s not an elite CF, but he’s a damn good one. If Carlos Beltran can get the Giants’ top pitching prospect for only half a season, I think Jones (younger, cheaper, more years until arbitration) can get plenty in return. The Os are looking for a front line pitching prospect with a #1 ceiling.
The Braves clearly weren’t offering one of their top level prospects in this deal. That’s just flat out obvious. So the trade was Jurrjens and Prado for Jones. Jurrjens had a good season last year, but his FIP and xFIP were 1 and 1.3 points higher than his ERA, showing future regression, especially with a move to the AL East. Both would be decent additions for the Os roster next season, but neither would come close to contributing when the Os are good (assuming they can have winning seasons in 3-4 years). Jones on the other hand could. The Os have a better shot of signing him long-term than any other team. And he should still be highly productive into his early/mid 30s (like Torii Hunter).
though not as good defensively as Hunter.
This is well thought out and makes perfect sense. Although I firmly believe that Jones is going to be a flat out stud, I myself would oppose this trade. I think the leaked information is incorrect, I do think we were trying for Jones using JJ, not both however.
I do think however, that Jones is on the block, and they are using information like this to drive up the return they could get.
Fact is if the Braves package is that great of a haul they wouldn’t have to deal with the frustrating O’s management and would have much better offers then AJ from other teams.
The only way I see ATL getting a better return for JJ/MP is if JJ shows he is injury free and Prado fills a hole in for a contending team.
JJ could be a great addition to any team. But after SEA got killed in the Bedard trade everyone is going to be cautious of trading for pitchers with an injury risk no matter how severe it is.
While AJ has issues with batting discipline, a CF with numbers like .280 20HR 75RBI 15SB is going to demand more prospects and less risk.
Players I would support trading JJ and Prado for:
Kemp
McCutchen
Hanley
there’s probably a few others but you get the gist.
The O’s have made a rather large mistake here thank goodness. Jones has never posted an OPS over .800, barely walks, and strikes out way too much to be a superstar which is what is deserving of a package like this. Not to say I wouldn’t be interested in JJ for Jones
Clearly, the O’s aren’t intending to compete at all this year, they would of had to accept this is they were but they want prospects.
Thank god wren didnt pull the trigger on this one, so glad o’s turned it down, jj,prado and a prospect for jones? crazy, stupid, idiotic, the kid is no better than prado and we would end up just giving them jj and the prospect. Helll no!. Go get luke scott and a SS and be done with it.
Thank God the O’s turned this down! what was wren thinking? just wait till next year and get a REAL CF’er plenty will be available. or resign bourne. We will have plenty of money next year. This year just sign luke scott and cedeno and be done with it. We cant compete for #1 in the east this year anyway, we need some major lumber.
Wait till the all star break and then trade JJ and prado to contenders in the AL. They will get twice the money or trade value if boston or NY are in the hunt come august. trade JJ,prado,oflair,hudson,jones should be coming off the books. Then go for an exciting youth movement, maybe by then we have a new owner with some money.
This is not true at all. Completly false. The offer was jurries or prado and a pitching prospect for Jones.
This rumor has been officially debunked by the Braves.
markbowman.mlblogs.com/2011/12/21/braves-did-not-o…
“The source said the Braves were told Jones was unavailable when they asked about him a couple weeks ago. The Orioles later called the Braves to see if they would trade Prado, Jurrjens and two other “premium guys” in exchange for Jones.
The Braves said they were not interested and the two clubs have not had any recent discussions about these players.”
Not at all surprised.
duplicate
lol at everyone calling Jurrjens a back end of the rotation starter. Keeping talking about his peripherals. All those are good for is estimating how many runs he gives up. As it stands now his peripherals are a terrible prediction of how well he’s done. It’s not the other way around. You can have your peripherals if you want and I’ll take the guy who’s actually not allowing runs to score. End of the Jurrjens discussion.
While we’re on the topic of peripherals, I’m so glad all the O’s fans are quick to point out how Prado is some glorified utility man, but neglect to mention that this utility man has a higher OPS than Jones. A higher average. A higher OBP. And a SLG percentage that is .003 less than Jones.
But yes Prado and Jurrjens are the ones who aren’t worth your god Adam Jones. If anyone is being overrated in this thread it’s Jones. I’d be skeptical to trade Prado for Jones straight up, let alone include Jurrjens plus two prospects. Pretty clear the Braves never offered this because if they did the O’s would be idiots to reject such a ridiculously lopsided package for center fielder who is worse than our current left fielder.
Hamels, Dom Brown, and a score of prospects would make more sense for the O’s
First, I do understand what Oriole fans are saying about not being a good trade…its not that JJ and Prado aren’t enough, its the fact that the O’s will not be good next year..they need players with 3-4 yrs of team control to improve. Straight up, man for man…JJ and Prado are better than Jones. Its a great trade for the O’s in fantasy baseball. If JJ and Prado had more yrs left under team control then they would have jumped on it. Lets not overvalue Jones, highlight catches in CF but not a great defender, low OBP and plays in a hitters park. Prado did have a down year so that can make you nervous but Prado in the last 3-4 yrs has been a better offensive player than Jones.
I think Connolly’s report that Atlanta offered Jurrjens, Prado and a pitching prospect for Jones was wishful thinking. I’m sure Baltimore asked for that like Bowman says, and the Braves turned it down.
It’s real simple to see that Jones is a product of hitter friendly Camden Yards (check his home/road splits the last 3 years). I doubt Wren was going to give up 2 years of Jurrjens, 2 years of Prado and 6 years of the prospect for 2 years of Jones. Jones can’t hit outside of Camden Yards. He would be lucky to hit 10 homers next year while playing 81 games in pitcher friendly Turner Field.
No way. Come on, this is an Oriole’s “fan” talking here and the supposed offer is outlandish. Frank Wren would not have given up 2 regular players plus a prospect for Jones. Adam Jones isn’t THAT good.
This Duquette guy is hilarious. JJ, Prado + two of Minor, Teheran, Beachy, Vizcaino, Delgado for Mr. never posted .800 OPS Adam Jones? That gets a big Keyshawn Johnson ‘COME ON, MAN’!
I was wandering about those comments about the O’s not being remotely close to competing for the next few years. Lol