The latest on Athletics lefty Gio Gonzalez, a 26-year-old who is under team control through 2015…
- Talks between the Phillies and A's on Gonzalez were brief, tweets Joe Stiglich of the Bay Area News Group. Stiglich says the A's didn't like Domonic Brown enough as a centerpiece.
- The Blue Jays are one of 12 teams in on Gonzalez, reports Susan Slusser (Twitter links).
- Evan Grant of the Dallas Morning News hears from multiple sources that the Rangers inquired on Gonzalez, but moved on after the A's asked for Martin Perez, Mike Olt, and Leury Garcia.
- The D'Backs were kicking the tires on Gonzalez but don't expect it to go any further, a source tells Nick Piecoro. Jon Paul Morosi would be shocked if Gonzalez is not traded by Opening Day.
- The A's will not trade Gonzalez at the Winter Meetings, tweets Joel Sherman of the New York Post, as they're using their Dan Haren haul as parameters and no one has come close yet. Four years ago, A's GM Billy Beane acquired Brett Anderson, Carlos Gonzalez, Chris Carter, Aaron Cunningham, Dana Eveland, and Greg Smith from the Diamondbacks for Haren and Connor Robertson.
- The Phillies are definitely out on Gonzalez now, tweets Danny Knobler. They would have dealt Kyle Kendrick or Joe Blanton had they acquired him.
- The A's seek players with zero or little big league experience for Gonzalez, tweets Danny Knobler.
- The Diamondbacks are pushing hard to acquire Gonzalez, tweets Bob Nightengale of USA Today. Danny Knobler tweets that the Tigers inquired but did not like a price tag that included Jacob Turner, while the Phillies don't look like a match. Ken Rosenthal says the Nationals, Tigers, Reds, D'Backs, Phillies, and Marlins are pursuing Gonzalez.
- There is some buzz about A's reliever Craig Breslow being of interest to the Phillies as well, tweets Susan Slusser of the San Francisco Chronicle.
- The Phillies and Athletics discussed a package deal involving Gonzalez and outfielder Domonic Brown, tweets Jim Bowden of MLB Network and ESPN.com.
Tim Dierkes and Luke Adams contributed to this post.
I hope Billy knows that Brown is going to be a bust. Philly needs to send something more than that. There is a reason Philly offered him up and its not you have to trade value to get value. Philly hasn’t really done that in recent years.
Philly is definitely going to have to send more of course. This is not a straight up trade.
(Notable Phillies trades since 2007 off the top of my head)
2007 – Gavin Floyd and Gio Gonzalez for Freddy Garcia
2008 – Michael Bourn for Brad Lidge
2008 – Adrian Cardensas, Josh Outman + for Joe Blanton
2009 – Greg Golson for John Mayberry
2009 – Jason Donald, Carlos Carrasco, and Lou Marson + for Cliff Lee
2009 – Cliff Lee for Phillippe Aumont, JC Ramirez, and Tyson Gillies
2010 – Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor, and Travis D’Arnaud for Roy Halladay
2010 – JA Happ, Anthony Gose, and Jonathan Villar for Roy Oswalt
2011 – Jarred Cosart, Jonathan Singleton, Domingo Santana, + for Hunter Pence
There’s only two trades the Phillies 100% won in that and that was the Greg Golson/John Mayberry swap and the original Cliff Lee trade.
The Halladay trade is a trade I’d do 100 times out of a 100.
I would too but it was a fair trade. There’s a difference between “fair” and “winning.”
Both sides got what they wanted out of that deal.
Only really bad trade so far is the Garcia trade. The rest I’m cool with.
Still gave up a ton of value despite what John said.
I’m fine with all of those trades too and wouldn’t take any of them back besides the 2nd Cliff Lee trade and the Freddy Garcia trade. They were all good trades for both sides. You don’t have to “Win” a trade for it to be good. I’m not really sure you understand what I’m saying, which is fine.
Almost all of those trades benefited both parties.
they didnt trade for cliff lee a second time. they signed him as a free agent last off season or did you forget that?
The 2nd trade being the trade of Cliff Lee TO Seattle .
They traded him to Seattle, did you forget that?
yea but thats how they brought in roy
But by resigning Lee a year later, they pretty much admitted that they never had to trade Lee to afford Roy in the first place
yea but thats how they brought in roy
IMO it seems like phi won just about all of them [or at least a draw], to be honest
They gave up a ton of blue chip prospects or guys who developed into blue chip prospects.
I’m not really seeing it. Even if they did “win” all of those trades, which I don’t really see, they gave up plenty of value. Anthony Gose, Jarred Cosart, Jonathan Singleton, and Travis D’Arnaud come to mind.
I think a lot of them were draws or at least teams getting fair value back in any of those trades.
Yeah – prospects. Lets wait to see if they produce in the bigs, plenty of question marks on all of them
… whatever. I’m not even wasting my time with this anymore. They gave up quality talent. Whether or not they develop into anything is to be determined but they gave up fair value in almost all of those trades.
Prospects are prospects… they gave up some very good ones. All I’ve said. They gave up value.
… whatever. I’m not even wasting my time with this anymore. They gave up quality talent. Whether or not they develop into anything is to be determined but they gave up fair value in almost all of those trades.
Prospects are prospects… they gave up some very good ones. All I’ve said. They gave up value.
Can’t write off Drabek yet either. Supposedly he’s in good shape, and is working really hard this offseason
Absolutely, they’re just the guys that at the time, I were disappointed to see leave the system and I think have the highest ceilings.
I was surprised by how bad Drabek was this year, I was and continue to expect big things from him. I’ll add him to that group.
Yeah, me too. He was pretty good his few starts in 2010. His thing is all mental though. He’s got nasty stuff, just needs to learn how to control it, and control himself on the mound. I still have hope, he’s just a kid. And really this is probably the first adversity he’s ever faced in his baseball career. I’m sure his old man is going to help him with some of the mental aspects over the winter.
Yeah a lot of them have turned out terrible. Haap really comes to mind. do you think it was overhype or they just simply didn’t pan out?
Which ones have turned out to be terrible? Happ wasn’t expected to be any more than a back of the rotation starter.
Drabek needs to work on his approach.
Carrasco had a good season before his Tommy John Surgery.
Some of its over hype but I think a lot of it is guys still developing. We won’t know until 10 years from now who won what trades but I think the Phillies gave up a ton of talent to acquire the players they did. Whether or not they won those trades, they gave up talent to acquire talent. There’s a ton of blue chip prospects in all of those deals, guys who have even gotten more hype since leaving the organization.
how do you figure they won the golson mayberry trade? golson has been decent with the yankees when he comes up when they add to the roster in september. he just dont come up and play as an everyday player because of whos already out there playing. if anything the trade was as even as anything. Mayberry hasnt done crap really for the phillies, and golson hasnt played but a total of two months in the majors. i remember in 2010 Golson threw out Carl Crawford at 3B after he fielded the ball 10 feet from the right field wall. perfect strong line drive throw straight to Arod at 3b. if anything you guys gave up a strong arm in the OF, for a tall lanky slow guy who has an average to decent arm. and btw you forgot the halladay trade. that was your guys best trade out of all of them. both times you guys got cliff lee you didnt win the series. maybe thats a hint, hes a world series jinx. Rangers couldnt win it with him, phillies couldnt the first time around and the second time around didnt even make it ou of the first round. typical philly teams this year.
Mayberry hasn’t done crap?
.273/.341/.513 for the Phillies.
I’m not even going to waste my time replying to you until you do some research.
Great post! I personally think the Phillies are a better team now than with all of those prospects. Without those trades they are a still a good team, but with them they are one of the best in baseball. I could live without the Garcia trade.
Even Blanton played a part in the world series win so still a win on that trade.
Prospect hugging is all well and good, but I think the phils made good choices here.
I think they made a great trade I just wanted to point out the fact that they gave up talented pieces to get these MLB guys.
They all look like great deals to me. You have a short memory if you don’t think the Blanton or Lidge trades were good…Blanton was unbeatable when he came here and Lidge was perfect. I’ll trade everyone for a world series ring.
You can’t even debate trading for 2 of the top 3 in Cy Young voting, consistently at that.
Never once said they were bad deals. You clearly didn’t read what I wrote or are misinterpreting me, either way, you’re missing the point.
I’m done with this, if people aren’t going to even read what I’ve written, I’m not going to reply to them.
The original post I replied to said they gave no talent/value back. I just threw all those trades up there, including the trades they lost, to show that they in fact have given up a ton of MLB players.
out of all of these trades all of them have worked out besides # 1 if that trade never went through we would of had no doubt the best rotation in the history of baseball and give up d-brown i dont like him if u trade him and kendrick 4 gio i would love ruben even more kendrick sux at starting he can only long relieve give up blanton and his use contract and 5 years from now when the phils have won the 2012, 2013,2014,2015 ws bcause of roy, cole, and cliff, and vanimal that roy halladay trade will b the best trade to ever go through if drabek is a ryan leaf
I said they gave up talent. The original post I replied to said they never gave up value. They did. They gave up blue chip prospects. End of story.
Never once said they didn’t work for the Phillies. In fact, quite the opposite. They, with the exception of two, were all great trades.
Just because I don’t think the Phillies outright won them doesn’t mean I don’t think they were good trades. I don’t see why a trade can’t benefit both sides.
out of all of these trades all of them have worked out besides # 1 if that trade never went through we would of had no doubt the best rotation in the history of baseball and give up d-brown i dont like him if u trade him and kendrick 4 gio i would love ruben even more kendrick sux at starting he can only long relieve give up blanton and his use contract and 5 years from now when the phils have won the 2012, 2013,2014,2015 ws bcause of roy, cole, and cliff, and vanimal that roy halladay trade will b the best trade to ever go through if drabek is a ryan leaf
You’re talking about the same team that traded Cliff Lee for a bunch of mediiocre prospects right?
That trade remains TBD. Aumont looks like a stud now and is going to be a setup guy or closer. Gillies is finally healthy and could be a productive CF. We’ll see.
exactly, we’ll see. But the point is they gave up Cliff Lee in that deal and those weren’t exactly the M’s top prospects. They may or may not have gotten hosed in that deal, but they did give up great value in Lee. So his claim that Philly hasn’t given up value in trades is just non-sense.
Technically, they gave up ONE YEAR of Cliff Lee for those guys. And Gillies may very well yet make a name.
Oh, and by “win” a trade, you mean “improved the team,” not “hosed the other GM,” right?
Yeah, it was one year of arguably the best pitcher in the league. Gillies may make a name for himself, but who knows. The point was they gave up a significant value in Lee, which is exactly the point I was making. I don’t see where I said anything about winning a trade.
It was an awful trade they could have gotten Jesus Montero and Arodys Vizcaino from the Yankees and could have gotten a better package elsewhere.
No they couldnt. They just got beat by the Yankees in the WS where the star was Cliff Lee. How would the fans react?
Who cares? It’s still a better package and that was the rumored package the Yankees offered. That’s a better package than what they got.
My point: There were better deals out there. I doubt they trade him to the Yankees, they obviously didn’t. But there were better offers on the table, they rushed to get a deal done.
I’m sure that World Series loss played a part but that doesn’t mean the Phillies didn’t still get a horrible package for Cliff Lee and there’s evidence there were better deals out there.
Ruben blew that trade. It worked out in the end but it’s still a terrible trade.
And you know Brown’s going to be a bust because…you’re psychic?
because hes 25 and hasn’t done squat in the mlb?
Really? That’s what you’re going by? He won’t be 25 until Sep 2012 btw. AND HE’S ONLY HAD at 50 AB’S!!!!!!!!
He still had respectable #’s for a rookie, especially like that 25/35 walk/ko rate. A .725 for a rookie power slugger is respectable.
I seem to remember how many “untouchable” phrases I heard about Brown and Drabek. How soon you jump ship Dino.
Domonic Brown’s a great OBP guy, it’s just a matter of him regaining his confidence and his defensive tools clicking together. I’d give up another 2-3 of our Blue Chip prospects in addition to Brown to acquire him.
I want Gio, just not at the expense of Cole Hamels.
Another 2-3 blue chip prospects? That’s crazy. Never happen
Our blue chip prospects really aren’t that good other than Brown. Trevor May had a good year but there’s a ton of question marks with him and his success came with him repeating a level, Biddle has questions about his velocity, Sebastian Valle can’t take a walk, and I don’t know who else could be considered “blue chip.”
If the Phillies don’t keep Hamels after 2012, its not because they traded for Gio.
Not talking about that, I’m talking about if they dump him like they did for Cliff Lee.
agree— it would negate the point of trading for Gio to turn around and trade Hamels.
No it wouldn’t. Gio would be under relatively cheap team control for a few more years whereas we will have to shell out $20M +/year in the near future for Cole in a year. From a production standpoint, they “negate” to use your term but the move gives us significant financial flexibility.
would you at the expense of flipping Hamels to the Yankees?
I would do Brown, Aumont, Colvin and Jiwan James for Breslow and Gonzalez
then flip Hamels for Betances and Mason Williams seems like a heck of a haul in both deals.
idk why, but i like that lol. Hamels has the playoff and world series experience. Gio would be new to it all and could fall apart in the post season. i wonder what brian cashmans twitter name is lol. but i think the phils would need to give up a better pitcher, someone like worely for gio.
I’d prefer Montero or Banuelos back. I think there’s a good market out there for him I just don’t trust Ruben to get a good package back given the history of teams trading aces.
I don’t think I can evaluate Hamels properly. He’s my favorite player and I’m obviously biased with him.
I think the Yankees are a great fit, Boston’s a great fit and I’d love to see the Phillies get Middlebrooks back in a deal.
can tell you right now thats who the A’s are going to want. prob even vance worely. and as the phils owner and gm are trying to turn the phils in to the yankees by trading or signing all of these old guys lol. here the yankees will give you aj burnett for mayberry straight up. lol
You really should just stop typing.
Michael Taylor in LF, Dom Brown in RF playoffs in 2012 not a doubt in my mind
The Phillies could really use another arm
😐
lol its funny everytime the yanks get involved in trade talks of someone they like it always seems every team follows suit.
Doubt they were the first team that liked Gio Gonzalez.
they had been tryin to get Gio since last year. oh well, send betances nunez and another prospect to oakland for Cahill.
Considering the Yankees weren’t even close to being the first team to talk about Gio, your entire post makes no sense. But isn’t it just so funny?!?!?!?!?!?
Don’t like it for the A’s. Brown has not been that great above the majors and the A’s have been stuck with many former great prospects that do nothing.
Looking beyond the numbers, the only real glaring weakness with Domonic Brown is his defense and base running. He turned his 2011 around in July with a .300 batting average and close to .400 obp (?) and was only sent to AAA because the Phillies acquired Hunter Pence. Offensively, he was showing signs of turning it around.
His confidence got shattered when he got sent to AAA and sulked.
Phillies fans should not get to excited because the tigers and yanks have upped their offers too. Brown would be just part of a package. So far A’s beat writers are saying that the Tigers are in the lead.
I’m not excited and doubt anything would get done because I realize my team’s prospects aren’t good enough to get a deal done.
It’s just something fun to think about.
im surprised the tigers even has anyone left to trade lol.
Looks like the Phillies are doing with pitchers what the Rangers used to do with batters. Collect each and every one of them.
Horrible trade partner for the A’s, I don’t think Beane wants or needs Dom Brown, he’s too old.
A guy born in 1987 is too old how?
When Beane says he wants A and AA players for Gio. That usually means players under 21. Therefore a guy born in 1987 is too old for a team that isn’t competing anytime soon.
He never said that he wanted A or AA guys for Gio. He wants a package similar to the one he got for Haren and there was only 1 guy in that deal that was in the A or AA range which was Chris Carter.
24 years old is “too old”?
Beane specifically said he is looking for under 21 players at A or AA.
Pete is right. The sad thing is most phillie fans on twitter think Brown is worth more than gio and they expect prospects in return… LOL.
this phillie fan doesnt like Brown he wouldnt take advice from Hall of Famer Schimbdt.
Well, the A’s would have Dom Brown from 2012 – 2017, and a stadium in San Jose should be built by 2015-2016. Conceivably, you can sign Dominic Brown thru 2018 (with an option year). The goal is to be World Series competitive Day1 in Silicon Valley.
dom brown is 30 by then
The A’s, with all their offense issues and with their entire 2011 outfield in free agency, don’t need (arguably) the third best outfield prospect in baseball (behind Harper and Trout if he’s still eligible)?
Obviously, there needs to be more in a Gio deal than Brown, but Brown’s a great centerpiece. He’s a better prospect than anyone that was in the first Haren trade.
The trade would give Dominic Brown playing time, but I think trading Gio might be a HUGE risk.
I agree. It’s a huge risk, and there has to be other players in the deal besides Brown.
He’s still the best outfield (or any position player, to boot) prospect the A’s can realistically get back in a trade of any of their players (since you’re not getting Bryce Harper and Brown/Trout are somewhat on the same level).
I think you are going too recent, Beane’s looking at 2010 & 2011 draftees here, not guys on prospect lists.
The trade would give Dominic Brown playing time, but I think trading Gio might be a HUGE risk.
He’s not eligible, lost his rookie status sometime last year since he had to sit on the MLB DL.
He’s not eligible, lost his rookie status sometime last year since he had to sit on the MLB DL.
You over-rate Domonic Brown greatly, he’s not worth being the centerpiece of a Gio deal and Phily doesn’t have anyone else the A’s need. I’d do McCarthy for Brown 1-1 though.
I don’t know if you really can compare Brown now to Gonzalez then. I would really give Gonzalez a bit of an edge because he was labelled a 5-tool guy whereas Brown does not have the speed that Gonzalez does or the arm.
Sad thing is, by judging from your previous posts, this isn’t a troll post. This guy is serious.
Yes, I am serious because I go off what comes out of Beane’s mouth and he said that he isn’t looking for ready-now players for Gio, he’s looking for guys at A and AA. See what I’m doing is talking about things that we all know, rather than pull wishcasts out of the air.
Hopefully they don’t trade with the phillies. They don’t have any good young prospects.
how is he too old
I don’t see how this helps the Phillies. If the goal is cost control, you’re basically getting a cost controlled replacement for Hamels, but giving up your cost controlled replacement for Pence in 2013.
Pence is under control until 2014.
If I’m the Phillies I’d trade Dominic Brown for Gio and sign Willingham.
There’s no need to sign Willingham if they’re going to platoon Mayberry and Nix.
I can’t stand how the Phillies handle prospects. Never let them learn in the Majors, and always give them a shot real late if they escape the gauntlet of being traded. I’d rather re-sign Oswalt and give Dom Brown a fair shake, which is something he hasn’t gotten yet.
Think Toronto is going to be in this mix. We’ve certainly got the farmsystem for it, and we’re looking for a #1-#2 starter. Plus, we’re not mentioned at all, which is certainly our GM’s style. If our name was linked to Gio all over the place, it would mean we definitely aren’t in on it.
I thought they were the favorite for him going in. Romero/Morrow/Gonzalez is a great top of the rotation.
Ya, that would be pretty great, particularly if you fill the rotation out with Alvarez and McGowan. It would have some real question marks going into the season, but it would have the potential to be one of the top 1-5s in the AL.
So I’m a bit confused;
Dominic Brown from the Phillies
Josh Reddick from the Red Sox
Jesus Montero, Manny Banuelos, Delin Betances from the Yankees. I think I got it. No wonder Cashman is giving everyone the finger left and right.
..and reading this is just what PMO even more. Teams throwing spare parts around, but the White Sox and A’s want the Yanks entire farm and why not, throw Cano in as well. Braves want Swisher, Nunez and Montero for Jair freaking Jurrjens. Dominic freaking Brown who’s been in prospect status for 4 years straight up for Gonzalez? Meh..Cashman should just get up and walk out of the meetings at this rate. I’d feel pretty damn insulted as well.
Ok Century you need to get your facts correct. Reddick was for Bailey and no time have the players the redsox offered has been posted. the A’s did want middleton for Bailey and sox said no. Second all the Yanks offered for Gio was 3 prospects and not one was Montero. The A’s asked for the Yanks 3 top prospects including Montero. The tigers has offered their top prospect too plus 3 more prospects. The Phillies offered Brown plus other players for Gio not alone. The cost for Gio is more than just montero so if you can’t compete just go home.
WHY ARE YOU SO SAD. THERE IS NO CONSPIRACY. IS IT NOT POSSIBLE THAN YANKEES PROSPECTS ARE OVERHYPED
If they were overhyped, teams wouldn’t be trading away their best players for them. There is obviously a reason why Montero and Betances are asked in every trade offer.
Ahhhhh….so all the experts are biased towards the Yanks but every other evaluation of YOUR teams prospects are certified legit? Wow.
WHAT–AHH–“SYSTEM ERROR”–WHAT PROSPECTZZZ–WHAT–NO–THAT IS NOT–YOU MADE AN INTERPRETATION—NO–IS WRONG–OH GOD
What, exactly, is the problem with team asking for huge ransoms for young pitchers that they have no real reason to move?
The Braves have two cost-controlled years left on Jurrjens, and there’s no reason to believe they won’t compete next year.
The A’s have four cost-controlled years left on Gio, and he’s a 26-year-old left-handed ace in the making.
So, first off, get your offers right, and second, stop complaining.
When guys like C.J. Wilson are getting offers of around 4/60, teams with young, cost-controlled starters have every right to ask for the moon.
a) The Braves and A’s are actively shopping those guys for a reason. Doesn’t mean they HAVE to trade them but they are actively soliciting offers.
b) Just because a team doesn’t want to fork over what they feel is too much doesn’t mean they or anyone, is in the wrong.
Josh Reddick was about Bailey, not Gonzalez. That’s completely different.
Yeah, but you saw what the conversation quickly evolved into.
What? The A’s asking for more and the Red Sox saying “no”?
The A’s have a young, talented closer who’s under team control for three more seasons.
Why can’t they ask for what they want in return? It’s not like they’re forcing someone to overpay. They’re just not that motivated to move Bailey, so they’re looking for an overwhelming deal.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
It seems to me the Phillies have much bigger needs to fill than another SP. Their last two playoff runs have been marred by a stagnant offense. They are too left-haded in their lineup, they swing and miss too much, and they get limited production out of their corner outfield spots and third base in the post season. They really need a big, right-handed bat at 3B (Polanco is really a utility player at this point), and they need an upgrade in LF (whether you’re talking about replacing Ibanez or Brown). Personally, if I were a Phillies fan I would be all about them signing Aramis Ramirez and committing to John Mayberry in LF.
Hunter Pence offers limited production?
If you consider
.324
.394
.560
to be limited production, you might need to lower your expectations.
At this point, I think they’re committing to John Mayberry Jr. Nothing really to lose if they go with him, there’s always outfielders available at the deadline and he’s a good defender.
If you consider
.324
.394
.560
to be limited production, you might need to lower your expectations.
At this point, I think they’re committing to John Mayberry Jr. Nothing really to lose if they go with him, there’s always outfielders available at the deadline and he’s a good defender.
I think Amaro is scared of the possible Pujols, Reyes, Ramirez, Stanton combo that’s being assembled..
But, I strongly agree, Aramis Ramirez would cure our 3B production woes and give Mayberry time so he can be an all around good player out in left. I think why Dom is being packaged is that he was outplayed by Mayberry in every aspect of the game in their time in the majors. There is no loss in this as Dom Brown resembles too much of B.J Upton and that’s not a player we want on our team.
I’d be okay with this if the phillies added another solid prospect
The only way this makes sense is if the Phils turn around and move Hamels to Yanks/Sox/Blue Jays, perhaps in a three-team deal. Phils would send Brown to As, As would send Gio to Phils, and the third party would send prospects both ways in return for Hamels.
THat was my thought exactly, although then I though about how much Hamels would cost, and it would make more sense for the Jays to just get Gio straight up. Thames, A.J Jimenez and Aaron Sanchez? High upside Catcher, a local boy in Thames with Speed and Power for the outfield and a very high upside pitcher.
not sure that is enough for either Hamels or Gio.
Maybe every team should do what phi does..have good “prospects” and trade them away for a great player, and those prospects turn into garbage (i.e. J.A Haap).
JA Happ was never a top prospect.
JA Happ wasn’t a prospect when the Oswalt deal happened. He was a mid 20s dude balding and pitching with an armory full of smoke and mirrors.
Is this the same JA Happ that all the Phils fans said would be too much to give up for Roy Halladay? I remember calling him a joke back then and being torn a new one by Philly supporters.
Just to add into it: JA Happ was also on the DL with a forearm strain.
But yeah, it got ridiculious. I was a fan of what JA Happ did with us but I didn’t expect him to be more than a 4th starter. The same people thought Happ was a better pitcher than Hamels and should’ve started over him in the playoffs. Same people also think Vance Worley is going to develop into more than a Joe Blanton.
Why the hell does Philly need another top of the rotation pitcher? It’s becoming a joke at this point.
Also, I think it’s a given that Brown will be traded soon. Manuel seems to despise him and he’s been too inconsistent to nail down a starting job. Combine that with coach’s lack of patience, and it’s not going to work.
Yeah, I think at some point, the value added by continuosly adding top SP just isn’t worth it. For example, the difference between having two elite SP and one is massive. But the difference between having four elite SP and three is not nearly as huge, especially at the cost of getting such pitchers, and if it’s at the expense of your lineup.
I mean, when you’re talking about a 3 game series (or, god forbid, you’re one of the two new wildcards) having four great starters is not alwways going to help if you don’t have some firepower in your lineup.
You can have a kind of paradoxical situation where you’ve got a team built to dominate the regular season and win the World Series….but only if you can figure out a way to win the wildcard playoff, or manage to get out of the LDS.
It’s a huge advantage in the regular season when you have a #4 starter like Cole Hamels or Gio Gonzalez matching up against a lesser #4 type.
For the playoffs, it’s not an advantage especially since Halladay is willing to go on short rest, just for whatever reason they refuse to use him.
We don’t, this is very odd of us to be dangling Dom Brown for… Gio Gonzales? Not to mention that Gio was already on the Phillies in their farm system and now they’re going to dish out our future star just to keep a window open. I guess this means Amaro has a plan for LF in the future that doesn’t involve Dom. I think is strictly due to the fact that the Marlins are going heavy on their lineup and that the Nats are getting good finally. The Phillies should be going after Ramirez still and pushing to get Rollins back, because their lineup would be upgraded from last season which was our demise.
BECAUSE. YOU. CAN. NEVER. HAVE. ENOUGH. PITCHING.
Also they don’t have Oswalt anymore, and Hamels is most likely gone after this year too, so they really do need another front line SP.
I just believe Dom Brown isn’t the answer for the A’s (they were burned on another Phily guy, Taylor, before) and they don’t have enough prospects to get it done, now put Bailey in the mix and make this a 3-teamer and you might be onto something…
I hope they don’t trade with the phillies. Tigers and Yanks have much younger and better prospects than the phils.
Last 2 postseasons the Phils lost because of their horrible offense. Why then would they deal for another SP. Look at their lineup with brown in the system, let alone without him. It’s garbage!!!!!
1st-mayberry/nix
2nd utley
ss (maybe) rollins
3rd palonco
of pence/victorino/nix
c ruiz
Their SP is fine. Signing lee and now paplebon was a big mistake because you neglected an aging offense. Those 2 contracts have and will continue to hold the phils back from improving their lineup.
All i casn say is have fun losing 3-1 games to the likes of lohse,westbrook,garcia….
The Phillies starting pitching is “fine”. Its aging too don’t forget Halladay will be 33 aswell as Lee.Their offense is garbadge now. Mayberry is no Howard lets get that straight and Utley is noone to rely on due to his Knee Chromoliga (dont know how to spell that).Polanco will be traded and they have very little future.
The problem with the Phillies offense isn’t really something you can buy or fix. Utley and Rollins were on base in almost every game against the Cardinals. The problem is after the 2nd inning in Game 2 the guys behind them got shut down.
Nix isn’t going to play 1b.
Gio to Reds,Frazier/Bailey/Hesiey to Phils,Alsono/Brown and so on to A’s?
Interesting, maybe to much going to phils, and they have paps why need bailey
Would love for the dbacks to pick up Gio!
Next update: “Yup, all teams interested in Gio Gonzalez.”
I would take Gio over any of the available arms right now.. Not sure what it would take to get him though, Nationals have a good enough farm to make a trade
Dbacks definitely have a trade history with Oakland the past few years. Hopefully they find a way to get Gio without giving up too much. I’d love Kennedy-Hudson-Gonzalez at the top of the rotation.
All teams are interested in Gio, the problem is the price is way too high.
plus…A’s only want players making between $450k & $1mil dollars who are 5 to 6 years away from free agency.
I’d imagine a price tag for AZ would be something like Parra, Holmberg, and another pitcher. It wouldn’t be too bad if that was close. I don’t really want to see one of the top four arms get traded thou (Bauer, Parker, Skaggs, Archie)
Holy f….listen: Beane does not want 24 year olds, he wants 18-21 year olds. He has 24 year olds now, adding more will not help the team when they get the OK to move to San Jose, which is why Beane is even listening to offers on Gio & Bailey in the first place. What I don’t understand is why he isn’t more clear about this, he’s been quoted about it but no one is taking him seriously. No, he doesn’t want or need Dom Brown, or Parra….either offer up your teams 1st round pick from both 2010 and 2011, along with one of your teams top 2 prospects, or don’t bother.
danny knobler dose not know what he is talking about billy said he wants young players and outfilders for example if the tigers offer austin jackson he has mlb experience and is till young it looks to me like they want mlb ready outfilders plus prospects
Joe Blanton, no offense but I forgot he even existed. Poor guy got buried behind the army of quality starters the Phillies have.
Joe Blanton or Kyle Kendrick and Brown for Gio? LOL … nothing like sending an injury waiting to happen in Blanton and a bust of a prospect for a significant piece. Kendrick? What the hell would Oakland want with him?
You misread it, it says they would have traded Kendrick or Blanton in a separate deal had thy obtained Gio.
Phillies: “Forget the Yankees and Jesus Montero and Manny Banuelos. We’ve got the good stuff. We’ll give you Blanton and Kendrick and both are more expensive than Gio so this totally helps your situation” end quote. And I’m the one who’s nuts on here. Right.
The post didn’t say they would trade Blanton and/or Kendrick for Gio, rather it said that if they landed Gio they would trade one of those players elsewhere.
They would have traded one of those two HAD they acquired him. Not TO acquire him. There was speculation they were trying to get Gio and might then move Hamels. This was simply a follow up to that… they were never offering those two in a deal to get Gio. You shouldn’t even need this explained to you, just think for a second before you post.
Separate deals.
How about a Gio for Hanley trade? Gio likes Miami, and OAK needs a SS.
Almost no way Oakland makes that trade particularly given what they are trying to do.
How about this trade scenario.. OAK gets: Jarrod Parker, Adam Eaton, and Patrick Corbin. AZ gets: Gio Gonzalez
Makes sense for both teams, Parker could end up being better than Gio in his prime alone and has top of the rotation stuff, plus Corbin could be a
very serviceable 3-4th starter and eaton is a solid OF prospect still developing. For the Dbacks, they’d still have Skaggs, Bauer, Bradley and Holmberg in tact, plus adding Gio would instantly make them the favorites to win their division again. (IMO)
Gio Gonzalez has been traded how many times now?
Good player but I wouldn’t give up anything significant for him
Do you know the game of baseball? Gio is an ace, or a number 2 on most staffs and is cheap over the next four years. Good post though.
Yeah..most bad staffs
Oakland is trying to what any other smart GM would do. Try to sell high on a player after a solid year
Yeah..most bad staffs
Oakland is trying to what any other smart GM would do. Try to sell high on a player after a solid year
Easy to say when you’re not in the GM position.
Depends on how desperate you are to save your job
If the only move the Tigers make is Gerald Laird and Ramon Santiago, I am gonna go be a Twins fan!!!!
/angry message board poster
How come I get this strange feeling that this is 1 of the 6 targeted pitchers the Walt Jocketty is going for. I know they mention the Reds here. Wonder what it would take to get this done.
Trade Idea… Gonzalez and Bailey for Grandal, Alonso, and Fransisco and an AA Pitcher
I’d offer up Alonso, Grandal, and since Beane wants young prospects to compliment maybe a Juan Duran + Josh Smith + David Vidal for Gio and Bailey
That might not be enough for Gonzalez but maybe that could get you Jonathan Neise or a starting point for Matt Garza.
Surprised the Jays haven’t been mentioned are we looking for a #1-#2 Starter????
ask and you shall receive.
And AA shows himself, buckle in, here we go…
except I have somehow fallen for that thought that if we hear rumors about it then it won’t happen.
Well, we here about them at SOME point. We heard about Rasmus a few hours before it waws official. Compare that with several days with most teams. But if we’re hearing about it, it means we’re probably in advanced talkks.
Damn, should’ve asked for some World Series to come our way.
Was just weird that I didnt see it before haha
I understand that Gio is under team control for a while at a decent rate, however teams need to be a Little more choosy with the details of a players availability if they are asking for the world for a player. Again, I know the contract is team friendly but acknowledging the want to trade a player should mean reasonable offers are strongly considered.
ruben i hope you look at these posts bcause i say u DO NOT SIGN J-SLUMP BACK!!!!!!!!! u either trade for a ss or sign rafeal Furcal or stick with galvis and save j-slumps money 4 a lf next year
Jimmy Rollins > Rafeal Furcal. I think Phillies fans make way too much out of one series he had against us.
Saw Rosenthal say the Phillies were thwarted but haven’t given up, have been persistent.
This has to be a bait and switch. You come wanting to talk about Gio Gonzalez and end up with Beane trying to sell you Brandon McCarthy and Guillermo Moscoso.
The Twins are the new AL team trying to get Gio
that would be an awesome land for Ryan – maybe a package centered around Hicks or Benson. The only two prospects that should be untouchable are Sano and Gibson.
that would be an awesome land for Ryan – maybe a package centered around Hicks or Benson. The only two prospects that should be untouchable are Sano and Gibson.
Gibson underwent TJ surgery 3 months ago, so I wouldn’t say he’s untouchable. Maybe untradeable.
“Evan Grant of the Dallas Morning News hears from multiple sources that the Rangers inquired on Gonzalez, but moved on after the A’s asked for Martin Perez, Mike Olt, and Leury Garcia.”
The Evan Grant article says that the Rangers inquired about Andrew Bailey and move on after the A’s asked for those players. They have since reopened discussion but the Rangers are now targeting Gio Gonzalez.
AA! about time!
If I am the As, I will take Domonic Brown, Jiwan James and Tyson Gillies, in return for Gio Gonzalez. James and Gillies are both lesser prospects with potential huge upside due to their speed. While Gillies was charged with possession, it was dropped and until then, his character was considered a plus. Pitching goes for a premium, hence the Phillies would have to trade three to get one.
And that is why you are not the A’s
“A’s not interested in Brown as a centerpiece”…exactly.
The blue jays acquire Gio Gonzalez for Edwin Encarnacion, Jeff Mathis and a signed Jose Bautista auto bat.
if we trade with bluejays i hope colby rasmus is part of that deal becuse we need a cf bad and he is young and cheap
After all that we’ve been hearing after that trade he will never leave here lol. Also they’ve said no player with MLB experience Gose is probably what you want, or Mastronianni (sp?).
gio bailey and cahill to royals for moustakas hosmer and lorenzo cain
lol
Dom. Brown sucks. The A’s know it. Phillies can’t stand to hear it.
The Indians GM Antonetti mentioned that he’s worked on a trade that no one would guess in 50 tries….Gio Gonzalez?
Tribe did stun a lot of people by getting Ubaldo this summer. One wouldn’t think they could do it again after dealing Pom and White…but if they were willing to include Chiz I think they could get their foot in the door. Many liked Chiz as a prospect better than Pomeranz. Tribe does still have a few lesser guys too, such as a Tony Wolters. Personally I’d be willing to include Michael Brantley as well.
Chiz has the power the A’s could like, doesn’t have a lot of ML experience, is young, and 3B seems very unsettled to me in Oakland (Sizemore was ok, but nothing special).
Normally I’d say no way with the Indians, but after the Ubaldo trade, never say never.
Yes, because his .245/.333/.391 line was amazing last year, right?
What? Gio is already a #1 SP in the majors, with the potential to develop further into an ace. Signed to an extremely team friendly, cheap contract, no less. That is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more valuable then a guy who’s hit well in the minors, but has a sub .700 OPS at the ML level and will hit you 10 -15/HR year.
I mean, come on. Maybe Brown, in conjunction with 2 other blue chip prospects, both of which have to be better then Brown.
Philly just doesn’t have the system to do this trade. In fact, Amaro said so on Evan and Phillips this morning…..his exact words were “to be frank, we don’t have the pieces to pull off another Halladay or Oswalt type trade”
You’re kidding, right? That’s why the guy is going to start 2012 in AAA.
Gonzalez is an All-Star in 2011 and has now had back-to-back seasons of 200+ IP and at least 15 wins on a bad team. He’s a strikeout pitcher and carried a robust 5.0 WAR in 2011 (4.2 in 2010). And he’s controllable through 2015.
Brown still hasn’t earned a spot on the team and through his lingering injuries has put up mediocre offensive numbers. He doesn’t have much power or speed and gets on base about as much as a #7 guy in the order should. Does that really sound like the centerpiece for a major arm? If Beane does this, he’s going to get fleeced.
…in 56 games.
Small sample size is calling
…in 56 games.
Small sample size is calling
May:
.333/.378/.545
June:
.165/.258/.354
July:
.296/.398/.366
He was rushed to the Majors twice.
May:
.333/.378/.545
June:
.165/.258/.354
July:
.296/.398/.366
He was rushed to the Majors twice.
Sure, and he could stil get better. But when you’rre trading a guy like Gio, you need proof of performance, not just hope of one. And if you’re going to trade hope of it (i.e. unproven prospects) you’re going to need 2-3 blue chip ones, to ensure that at least one of them pans out, given the high bust rate for any prospect, no matter how good they are in the minors.
Good luck finding a package of three prospects in which all of them are better than the #4 prospect in baseball (according to BA’s 2011 list, which is the only one I have access to at the moment.)
Considering Gio isn’t on either Roy’s level, this wouldn’t really be “another Halladay or Oswalt type trade”.
Gio Gonzalez is not a #1 pitcher in the majors as shown by his home/road splits & his walk rate. He’s still a good pitcher, but he’s not a #1.
He says that every year. I don’t think they have the pieces to get it done though, might be the year he truly means it.
d’Arnaud, Hech, Gose, Hutch, Alvarez, Deck, even Sierra are all guys who willl prob be ML ready within a year or so, maybe less for some of them. Of that list, every one of them has to be considered a true blue chip prospect (with the exception of Sierra probably). d’Arnaud could potentially be a top 10 overall prospect before the 2012 season starts.
And then just behind them there’s a ton of depth at A and lower. And of course, the big club has guys like Snider and Thames who willl have some value (especially to a depleted Oakland OF) in a trade.
I’d agree with that. I think Biddle could become one but reports on him are that he’s sitting high 80’s, which isn’t something I really like out of my blue chip type prospects.
I was reaching with including Valle and Biddle but I figured they’re our other top guys so might as well throw them in. I don’t think either could be the difference in a trade for anything more than a complementary player.
I’m not going to be a believer in Trevor May until I see him have success at AA this year. Right now I’ve got him as a mid rotation starter/reliever.
That too.
I doubt it when the Yankees are offering (supposedly) Montero and Betances.
Personally, I’d like us (Jays) to offer one of either Snider or Thames, Gose, and Lind.
May and Brown? You’re out of your mind.
I stand corrected. I was just looking at ML stats. Still, prospect rankings are a lot less relevent when you’ve got some actual ML time to look at. I understand small sample size, and 91 games is certainlynot enough to come to any conclusions……but 91 games of crap is certainly enough to hurt ones trade value.
Yeah, you keep ignoring his limited playing time. His .236/.314/.382 in 246 ABs is forgettable.
If NYY isn’t willing to give up one of their top prospects for Gonzalez, that’s crazy. He’s exactly the kind of pitcher they need.
He wasn’t referring to the caliber of player (obviously Gio is no Doc….he’s not far from Oswalt though) he was answering a question about how the phillies were going to bring in talent in the near future, and he was saying through drafting adn player development. He said they don’t have the farm system to bring in proven vets, and in fact if there ARE any trades, they’ll likely be the other way, by shipping off vets to replensih the farm.
Nobody’s on Roy Halladay’s level, but he’s still going to require a haul of talent back.
In terms of value for money, Gio is #1 right now unless you think Danks is better (and he might be). Gio is 4 years and somewhere between 12-18M depending on bonuses, there’s no one close to that in terms of production vs dollar value.
I can definitely agree with that. Those 91 games are pretty much the only reason the Phillies might be talking about moving Brown in the first place. If reports hold true, his was the first name asked for in each of the blockbuster trades we’ve pulled off, and it was an absolute non-starter each time.
If only we’d had the good sense to keep Gio when we had him the first time, we wouldn’t be in this mess now. Ah, hindsight…
Your assessment of Brown is weak though. It’s not his fault the Phillies don’t let guys learn in the Majors. It’s not his fault they’d call him up with no real intention of sticking it out with him to see what’s there. He hasn’t earned a spot on the team because he hasn’t been given a real opportunity.
He’s absolutely got power and speed, and you’re basing everything with him off of less than a hundred games. No one has any idea what he’s capable of yet.
Say what??? And you’d have Encarnacion playing first? Who then DH’s?
That won’t even be close to the package that the A’s are looking for. Why would the A’s want Adam Lind when they already have like 4 guys competing for that spot already.
Ummmm….the Yankees aren’t and if they did and Beane passed then he should be fired.
So you say Brown looks like a bust and Beane probably wouldn’t want him and then you offer up Snider?
Well, in my fantasy scenario, we sign Fielder to play 1B.
But more realistically, we could find a servicable 1B/DH somewhere. Gio in our rotation and a subpar 1B makes us a much better team then Lind at 1B and no Gio.
I think you’re overvaluing Gio Gonzalez who has the following career line:
3.93 ERA/4.06 FIP/3.98 xFIP/4.05 SIERA
Yet. Can’t wait to see what he does this year, he really turned a corner in 2011 and is really about to explode into a genuine ace.
Then you get robbed in deals like the Oswalt one, where J.A Happ was the collateral in the deal. The A’s aren’t getting anyone off the Phillies starting roster.
ill tell you now the Phillies barely have the pieces to get him.A SP who puts up good numbers who is under control to 2015.The Phillies will have to have a Farm system firesale and give up May,Brown + whatever is in their farm. Unless they do a three way deal involving the Yanks and swap Hamels to them and possibly take Montero and Maybe Bentiaces
this would work
Yanks:Hamels
Phils:Gio
As Bentiaces,Montero
No way Toronto does that deal
that’s way too much for the Jays.
and then swapped Gose for Lyle Overbay 2.0 (second verion lacks the plus defense).
their not giving up a top prospect for a guy who is only in the second or third slot in a rotation. with the emergance of Nova and having resigned sabathia thats exactly where Gio would be. is third in the rotation if not 4th. and his 3.95 ERA? i think i rather see banuellos or betances come up and start for a season and see where that heads to. everyone keeps talking about Gio this and Gio that. he pitches for the A’s. thier not exactly high on the media pressure list. you take a kid out of that enviroment and you throw him into new york,boston or philly and the chances of that ERA jumping up by 2.00 and his wins going down are more likely to happen then the orioles winning the series next year. hes good, but hes better in a low market area. not a high market team with stars on both sides of him in the club house. and he would have that with halladay and lee. plus i dont think hes worth top prospects.
not sure Hech still counts as a blue chipper. Also not sure Sierra is quite up to that status yet. D’arnaud and Alvarez could headline a trade for a F.O.R arm. Hutch, Deck, and Gose are great trade chips, but probably something of a step below D’arnaud and Alvarez.
Hech is a bluechip prospect? Really? Please tell me you’re not going by the 25 games at AAA last year. Prior to that he’s never had a OBP above .305 or an OPS above .700 and he’s 22. 22 isn’t old but he certainly should’ve shown some promise with the bat by now.
And then it amazes me that you see value in Snider, who has already wasted 2 years of control and has shown in 800 AB’s and yet dogged Brown who is still under control for 5 more years and has only logged about 260 AB’s.
Any relation to Len….Bias?
as a 4 starter any1 would have that hes a #1 or 2 on every team bsides the phils
I think you’re overvaluing Trevor May a little bit.
There would be no need for Trevor May as the rotation would be, for the next year: Halladay, Lee, Hamels, and Gonzalez and quite possibly for the next 2-3 years as Ruben’s said acquiring a pitcher wouldn’t preclude him from doing a deal for Cole Hamels.
Plus Pettibone’s developed into a solid prospect with a 95 mile per hour fastball with great sink. They also drafted Kenny Giles who’s got a power arm and a great splitter and Braden Shull, one of the top lefties in the draft last year. They’ve got guys who can replace Trevor as a prospect in the next 2-3 years.
only in the nl d-brown is better bcause montero cant catch
Hi, I’m the Giants’ rotation and I disagree.
Gio isn’t the ace that Olt and Perez will be used for.
He’s the no doubt about it #1 prospect on the Phillies.
Is he not responsible for his numbers? Yes, I understand that he has limited playing time and 1-2 minor injuries that have stalled his maturity, but I’m also referring to not being disciplined in the field or on the bases, as well. What he has done to earn playing time?
You should know the PHI has been looking for a corner OF and he’d be it if they thought he was ready, but he should be starting 2012 in AAA, unless I’ve read wrong.
Rushed to the majors? Maybe he just had a bad month? Ppl are way to critical on Brown.
Rushed to the majors? Maybe he just had a bad month? Ppl are way to critical on Brown.
Gio would be our #2 dude. Nova is a good pitcher but can we stop acting as if he’s already a legit FOR guy? Let’s not heap all of these expectations on him already.
I am not overrating Chiz. You can argue scouts are overrating him though as they are the ones that liked him more than Pomeranz and think he has 30 HR power.