With the Yu Darvish contract all wrapped up, the Rangers have found themselves in the middle of the Prince Fielder rumormill whether they like it or not. Team co-owner Bob Simpson told Evan Grant of The Dallas Morning News that the slugging first baseman is likely not an option for them at his asking price, and that he'd prefer to re-sign his own star player.
"I think he's, given our set of cards, too pricey," said Simpson. "And if that were to change, I guess they would look at that harder. But right now I think he's priced himself out of what we could do."
"We've got guys, frankly, like Josh Hamilton I would love to see re-signed. And frankly, my personal preference at this moment would be to re-sign him instead of helping Fielder. We (the ownership group) could all debate that."
Simpson said yesterday that the team is operating at a deficit and will continue to do so until their new television deal starts in 2015. Extension talks with Hamilton were put on hold until Darvish and the club's arbitration-eligible players were signed, though assistant GM Thad Levine told Todd Hollandsworth and Jim Memolo on MLB Network Radio that the two sides were "in active discussions" yesterday (mp3 here).
Then get it done.
Ugh. I hope this owner is just talking crud to throw other teams off, but I wonder. He needs to trust his people like JD to decide what’s best for the team and having Hamilton
Having Hamilton and Fielder together makes the team a better contender now. This mentality to keep aging injured players is great for the fans, but doesn’t make the team a winner…just ask the Astros.
Not when it takes up all your payroll.
I doubt “the team is operating at a deficit” is crud.
” helping Fielder” Strange word to use there…
Caught my attention too. Interesting choice of words.
Wow. I don’t care if Fielder is more expensive. He brings way more to the table than Hamilton. Younger, better numbers, can play a full season, etc.
the only thing prince has going for him over hamilton is health. health is important, but to say prince “brings way more to the table” is nonsense
hamilton has been the better offensive player over the last two years, the better baserunner, and the better defensive player – at a much more valuable position
prince has age and durability – and nobody is very sure how long the latter will last. but prince will also cost a lot more
edit: even though 2009 is a clear aberration, i feel a little dirty leaving it out. but here’s how things look even adding in that lousy half-season:
p.fielder: 15.3 WAR in 485 games (5.0 WAR per 160 games)
hamilton: 14.1 WAR in 343 games (6.6 WAR per 160 games)
Exactly, thank you.
The more valuable position is what Josh has going for him. But remeber he is about to turn 32-33 yrs old.
he is about to turn 31
good defense in LF would still be a lot better than bad defense at 1B. for equal money over equal years, i’d go with prince. but that’s not the choice
Better #s? You mean home runs? He can’t run like Hamilton, which hinders his defense and him on the basepaths…which is where alot of our game lies…speed on the basepaths.
hamilton has actually hit for more power than prince over the last couple seasons, both in terms of extra-base hits and in terms of HRs per plate appearance
I think both of you are right, but you are trying to undermine the injury aspect of Hamilton. When he is on the field, he is a great contributor. But how long does he stay? I think if Rangers can get Prince with a backloaded, opt-out clause included contract, they should go for it. They should also try to extend Josh, but not too many years.
It would be a slap in the face to Josh for us to pay Fielder his asking price, then try to lowball Hamilton. We still have to re-sign Kinsler, Napoli, Lewis, and Adams too.
WOW lot of free agents after this season for you guys. Anyways, I understand Josh is a fan favorite but having him for a long contract given his injury history, not too confident I am.
You’re forgetting Michael Young as well. If you think he was ticked off about the signing of Beltre. He will blow his top and mean it this time, and then ask to be traded. His playing time would be hurt the most if the Rangers sign Fielder. He would have some options though. The Detroit Tigers, Baltimore Orioles, or Philadelphia Sillies. =P, they would be very interested. The Rangers have no place for Young, he’s the one who should or would be upset. If the Rangers sign Fielder, there would be a bigger Soap Opera than the State of Texas itself!
Young is in the top 20 players in baseball. Period – They don’t need Fielder – sure younger but is going to have a ton of health problems down the road. Why do you think no one has signed him. It is not money.
Young is in no way in the top 20 players in baseball. He was tied for 62nd in hitters WAR last year at 3.8 and another 30 pitchers were also higher. It was also his best WAR since 2006.
Young would be the DH and give people days off in the field. The Rangers would probably trade Moreland, so MY10 would be unaffected.
the rangers would be thrilled if michael young demanded a trade. he’s their biggest financial problem
” you are trying to undermine the injury aspect of Hamilton”
then i suck at doing that, since health is the very first thing i mentioned and i’ve highlighted the discrepancy in games played over the last 3 seasons
then you quickly tried to downplay your own argument by pointing out how Hamilton is the better player and choice to extend, which I don’t necessarily disagree with. But like I said, more emphasis on his health is needed when in last 3 seasons, one player has missed close to one season (143 games) and other has missed just one game. demanding position or not, more athletic or not, I think the decision is not simple.
“quickly tried to downplay my own argument”? these are just weasel words you’re using. i didn’t do anything like that
follow the thread. dude says prince brings more to the table than hamilton. in response to that comment, i acknowledge prince’s better health and then point out that hamilton actually brings way more to the table. better defense, better baserunning, better position, and better offense
prince brings one thing to the table instead of 3+. he’s just at the table more often (how fitting is this analogy)
i don’t know what you want done to ’emphasize’ the durability issue, but at least as much emphasis is needed for the contract issue. their asking prices are not similar
then you quickly tried to downplay your own argument by pointing out how Hamilton is the better player and choice to extend, which I don’t necessarily disagree with. But like I said, more emphasis on his health is needed when in last 3 seasons, one player has missed close to one season (143 games) and other has missed just one game. demanding position or not, more athletic or not, I think the decision is not simple.
As much of a non Fielder fan as I am.. Must point out that Hamilton has played half of his games at homer friendly Arlington, where Fielder may have played mostly in the NL, but not nearly as friendly of a home stadium.
You are bang on with preferring a decent defensive OF over a pretty much liability at 1B tho IMO.
Miller Park isn’t hitter friendly? Give me a break…
Not like Arlington. Balls fly out of there, like in every direction as they did out of LF at Fenway before they built the new press box.
Miller Park isn’t hitter friendly? Give me a break…
the stats i’m using to distinguish them are park (and league) adjusted
i don’t have anything against fielder other than his contract demands
I’m sure he could disappear in the playoffs like Hamilton.
Hamilton had a torn groin muscle. I’d like to see you even get up off of the couch with that same injury.
I won a wrestling tournament with a partially torn MCL. Does that hold any weight?
Also, he was in the playoffs before an hit sub .120 in two series.
I’m surprised that you would be so quick to discredit your rotation in SF. The Rangers as a team batted poorly in that Series.
Oh and, yea, I bet everyone on here has played minor league ball.
That’s great for you, but why come on here and knock a guy that nearly won the Series for the Rangers with a torn groin muscle with no pain medication, just because you won a HS wrestling tournament?
I’m not knocking him, but I totally disagree from the standpoint of a 1-5 year deal that Hamilton is better than Fielder. Hamilton is an aging outfielder and has durability issues, which you have stated yourself. That being said, I wouldn’t take either player on more than a 5 year deal.
What he did with his torn groin was great from a standpoint of pain threshold, but he didn’t play well. You could argue that he hurt his team more than he helped it, but that’s with the great advantage of hindsight.
You’d care of we sign Fielder then couldn’t resign a majority of Hamilton, Cruz, Kinsler, Adams, Napoli, and Andrus.
I don’t know why the Rangers are even interested in Fielder in the first place. Yes, he will make their lineup even more dangerous, but Moreland is more than capable of holding down that position. Their lineup is as good as it gets. If they focus on starting pitching, they have a team that could win the World Series year after year after year. If I’m Nolan, I try and see which starting pitchers are available via trade.
I’m pretty sure they’re waiting to see what develops with Felix or Kershaw. There isn’t anyone out there worth trading for right now.
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again: Prince is 100% a better long term investment than Hamilton. He has better numbers, he’s younger, and he is never hurt. It would be a much better move for the Rangers to sign Prince now and collect the draft picks when Hamilton leaves because if they give him (Hamilton) the money he is asking for, they will be regretting it for a very long time.
Yeah but in my mind Hamilton plays a position much harder to fill and First base is covered pretty good with young, napoli and moreland. But If we take positions played out of the equation then fielder is the better option by far.
It looks like Fielder goes to the Nats.
If it (Fielder to the Nationals) hasn’t happened already, why now? It would seem there is no market for Mr. Fielder at the current asking price (price = both dollars and years). Mr. Boras will need to reset the market by coming down on the total price (most likely by reducing the length of contract he’s requesting, perhaps upping the yearly price a bit in doing so). Once he’s done that, a new market will have to be established and develop. That’s when the real bargaining will begin, as a lot of the teams now ‘out’ of the Fielder chase will suddenly be ‘in’ again. This is going to take some time.
I think that the Nationals have realized that they are bidding against themselves. Boras may have screwed the pooch this year. I think that Fielder may have to take a shorter deal, like 3 years and $60-$69M.
Or the Ms, but I get the feeling Prince has no interest playing there.
At this point in his career he might be thinking legacy (hof) and if so he’s not going to be able to put up the necessary numbers in Seattle.
left handed power hitter hit well in Safeco Field.
Safeco is a better hitter’s park than Miller according to park factors–especially for LH’s.
Nats should offer Prince 5 years 110m, not a dime more. I really don’t think there’s any other suitors if Texas is out
Doubt that happens. That contract is too good a deal.
There are a lot of suitors out there. But not over a three year contract. Teams project him just like his Dad. Overweight DH.
Sure his dad wasn’t as fat though and was taller too.
Bingo. Plus by now GM’s probably have a long list of Boras’ long term, team-hindering contracts they keep in mind during negotiations.
Ha! When Boras slides that absurdly thick client profile binder across the conference table before the meeting begins, I would LOVE to see a GM slide across an equally thick binder containing all of Boras’ horendous contracts, extensively breaking down in every facet just how much each one has completely and utterly screwed the respective club.
As much as we all keep hearing about these Boras player binders I would love to see one leaked out so we could all get a glimpse of what is really in there.
Regardless of the value & performance of prince, isn’t the problem that Boras is demanding some team sign up for a bad (too long) contract? Apparently he’s declined offers of dozens of millions per year to the point that there are just a few (possibly undesirable) teams that can even consider the asking price. No offense to those cities, but if my agent isolated all potential employers except the Mariners, Nats and Tex, I would fire him.
Texas isnt really potential IMO. I dont see them fitting more money into their budget unless its backloaded and they plan to let a few guys go next year. Mariners are pretty bad, and probably wont be very good for a while. Washington could be intriguing for him. Theyve got a solid core to build around. Adding Fielder this year, and probably a first full year of Harper in 2013, with Strasburg leading the rotation, as well as the other good young players on the team, they could take control of the NL East for a good while, and possibly string a WS or 2. Washington has to be the best on the rise team right now, and they are shooting up. I would take their offer if there was one.
I’d take Hamilton over Fielder largely as a character guy in that clubhouse. Hamilton can be a great teacher in the clubhouse on what to do and to not do, given what he has gone through and his past troubles.