It'll be a surprise if Zack Greinke is pitching for the Brewers after the July 31st trade deadline, Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports writes. Here are some more details from Morosi, starting with the Brewers right-hander:
- Greinke didn't offer much detail on his contract talks with the Brewers — “I don’t know anything about that. I’m not really talking about it" — but the Brewers are preparing to trade him if an extension isn't possible.
- Morosi is almost certain the Brewers will be sellers and notes that the Braves, Dodgers, Cardinals, Orioles, White Sox and Indians would like to upgrade their rotations. Morosi adds that the Rangers, Angels and Yankees had scouts at Greinke’s most recent start. Greinke, a free agent after the season, figures to obtain a qualifying from the Brewers this fall if he stays in Milwaukee. No other team can obtain draft pick compensation for Greinke if he leaves as a free agent this offseason.
- Mark Kotsay will be one of the most sought-after bench bats in summer trade talks, Morosi writes (Twitter links). The Padres have outfield depth in Carlos Quentin, Chris Denorfia, Cameron Maybin, Jesus Guzman and Will Venable.
I still think the Reds should go hard after Greinke. They need a top of the line pitcher and if they are serious about winning their division and going deep into the playoffs I would rent him.
Brewers would be asking for Billy Hamilton (SS), Corcino (SP), and Frazier (3B) or Stephenson (SP). It would deplete your farm, but you already have your main players locked up in lengthy contracts at your key positions.
HAHAHAHA. That’s not going to happen. It’s pretty pointless to argue this, since we aren’t going to trade for Greinke.
Oh yeah, what team in their right mind would trade 3 of their 5 top prospects or 2 plus Fraizer (who is our only 3B once Rolen is gone after this year) for a few months of a SP. Hamilton and Corcino are #1 and #2 also. Let me repeat that, all of that for 15-20 STARTS FOR THE ENTIRE FARM. No. Just no.
Those prospects would be traded for somebody with years of control left, not 3 months. We sent less to the Pads for 4 years of Latos, so what makes you think you’ll get more for 3 months of Greinke in the division?
Hey, the price is steep to trade to a division rival. You’re lucky we’re not asking you to include Votto, and pick up most of the money on his ludicrously long contract.
Votto is arguably the best hitter in the game. For my money on the long contracts, I’d take Votto over Fielder/Pujols every time.
And we’d take Braun’s contract over Votto’s anyday
Lots of guys are “arguably the best hitter in the game.” Chances are slim that he falls into that category in the last third of that deal.
And you think Pujols or Fielder will be the same guys they are right now at the back end of their contracts? You have to pay to be able to get the best players during their best years.
I don’t think that either. Never said I did… but they were free agents as well. Gotta expect to pay retail there.
Just like I never said that Votto will be one of the best in the back end of the deal. Right now though, I’ll take Votto. His is OPS is ridiculous.
Cueto? We have a top of the line pitcher.
Cueto is not at the same level as Greinke.
Lol, Cueto has out pitched Grienke by far since 2010. Not to mention he pitches in a very HR prone ballpark.
Are you high, sir? Greinke has pitched far more innings than Cueto. Zack has also struck out more than 480 batters since 2010 (including this season) compared to….300 or so for Cueto. Sure, Cueto’s ERA has been lower, but he hasn’t even come close to the ammount that Zack has pitched since your referenced 2010 season. Ha, even more funny is that Greinke has walked less batters while pitching way more innings than Cueto.
Who cares about strikeouts when Cueto is still getting batters out? He pitches in the toughest park in the majors and has only given up 2 homeruns all season there. If Grienke was so valuable teams like the Yankees wouldn’t favor Garza over him. Cueto has also put up a higher WAR since last season.
False, you’re thinking of the new Yankee Stadium as the HR Happy Park of MLB. GA Ball Park certainly fits that category, but so does Miller Park with the roof. Cueto is not even close to Greinke. Let me know when Cueto can actually pitch a full season OR win a Cy Young with the worst team in baseball a few years ago.
ZG has only pitched 4 full seasons in his 9 year career compared to Cueto pitching 3 out of 4 through last season and on his way to make it 4 out of 5. I guarantee you Cueto will continue to be the better pitcher going forward. His injury in 2011 by the way was also not from attempting to play another sport.
yankees favor garza because A) he isn’t a true #1 starter which they don’t need so he wont be as expensive as Greinke (although with cc out it couldn’t hurt) B) Garza has shown he can pitch pretty well in the AL East, and C) garza doesn’t come with Greinke’s risk of social anxiety. IN terms of value, Garza will cost and pitch like a #2 starter, while Grienke will cost through the nose, but still pitch at a high level.
It’s not all about the strikouts, son. A strikeout counts as equally as a groundball or flyball out. Like you said, Cueto’s ERA has been lower which is what matters in the end. ERA dictates what actually happens, not FIP or xFIP.
Very well said, my friend. No matter how good Cueto has been and continues to be he still isn’t taken seriously.
Thank you!!! I had this discussion yesterday with a buddy about Adam Dunn and his strike outs. A strike out equals a fly/line/ground out. It’s just how players make thief outs not extra special about a stikeout. It’s a good stat for pitchers to stat sheet stuff that’s about it
I don’t particularly agree with the guy you’re responding to, but a strikeout is not “equal to a groundball or flyball.” You aren’t putting the ball in play, and you don’t have a chance of advancing baserunners. A strikeout with no one on base is an out. A strikeout with guys on base is completely unproductive.
Yes, but in turn a ground ball could turn into a double play unlike a strike out. There’s pros and cons of every kind of out. Sometimes you wish the out would have been put in play, sometimes you don’t. An out is an out in the end, though.
The only “pro” of a strikeout is that you’re eliminating the possibility of a double play with runners in position to be doubled up. That’s not much of a “pro.” Simply put, a strikeout is never productive.
all this arguing about the Red pitchers and not needing Zach is hilarious when you consider how everyone is ignoring that it’s all moot as long as Dusty “Arm Killer” Baker is managing
that dude would’ve destroyed the arm of Cy Young himself
I still think the Brewers should keep Greinke. It takes pitching to win. If the Brewers trade Greinke their rotation sucks. As a Brewer fan I want a long term commitment by management to win. Signing him does that. Trading him waves the white flag for the next 5 years. The Brewers have allowed too many great players to walk away in recent years. Time to change that ugly trend.
The Reds already gave up 3 former first round picks and Edinson Volquez for a top of the line pitcher in Latos. What else do they have to give for Greinke?
Realistically, what would we be talking about here for Grienke? With the new CBA in place, we aren’t going to be seeing the same types of deals in the past.
In the past the Braves (or any team) would be okay with trading a little more, knowing that he would be testing the market in the offseason and by offering arb they are going to get the pick(s). Now are teams going to be okay with giving up multiple prospects for a 2-3 month rental?
I have so much faith in Minor becoming a #2 for the right team but honestly with the insurance the Braves have with Gilmartin I would be okay with a deal to get Grienke for Minor. I would be reluctant to give up much more than that unless Grienke agrees to an extension before the deal.
I know that some will say why do we need to sign Grienke, but we have to look at 2013 as being down one more starter in Jurrjens and 2014 being the last year for Huddy.
Potential 2012 staff down the stretch
Grienke
Hanson
Hudson
Jurrjens
Delgado
2013
Grienke
Hanson
Hudson
Teheran
Beachy(at some point)/Delgado
2014
Grienke
Hanson
Teheran
Beachy
Gilmartin/Delgado
Easy answer to your question, yes. Teams will be giving up more to land a rental (especially an ace) than before in the new format of having 2 WC teams. There are more team jockeying for a solid hurler than ever before because more teams feel as though they have a legit shot of making it to the post-season. It will cost 3 top 10 prospects, 2 of which will be top 5–possibly even all 3 in the top 5.
Furthermore, the idea of “oh, the Brewers will unload him at a cheaper asking price because they won’t get a draft pick in return” is complete rubbish. Teams need SP’s more than ever, look no further than the Braves.
I really don’t think we do. I mean, aside from Minor, we’re fine. Delgado is spotty, but he’s a rookie. I can look past it. Lineup needs to know that they need to score some runs for him at times. We can’t win em all, but I like his future. More so than Minor. But with both of them, when it rains it pours.
I think JJ will be ok IF he doesn’t think about his knee too much and just goes out and pitches. He was lights out last year up to the ASG – then got hurt. If he stays injury free, and pitches like he did last week, we’re good.
Obviously we’d like to have Beachy – but I wouldn’t say we’re hurting for SP. Plus, we’ve got a limited budget – so not like we’re going to be able to take on much this year anyways.
Thats a silly answer. He was obviously referring to the lack of compensation picks for the acquiring team under the new CBA. With that said, 3 top 5 prospects is absurd and no team would do that even for Greinke. Realistically, it would take a package better than the draft picks the Brewers would receive. Maybe something like a team’s ~4-6 prospect plus a couple less established high ceiling prospects.
w/ Cozart playing well, Brandon Phillips, Voto, and Bruce all locked up….the Reds could and would deal 3 top 5 prospects (position players).
that is laughable
With the compensation picks, Milwaukee could easily end up landing two top five farm system guys. Just look at last year’s draft: Jungmann and Bradley – granted, the picks may not be as high, but team’s first and comp. round guys almost always seem to be top five guys on next year’s prospect list.
Greinke is not a “3 top 2, 2 in the top 5” quality starter. Sorry, he’s just not.
Greinke is the top guy out there. There are at least 5 teams that would trade for him and try to win a world series.
Really? Greinke, who won a Cy Young in the AL and already has 9 wins this season (yes, I know they’re just wins, but still) isn’t going to be the most sought-after player before July’s trade deadline? Especially when pitching at home, Greinke is unbeatable (quite literally). You guys just lost Beachy and you’re in 2nd place in a wide-open NL East (DC will never sustain this level).
Mark it in the books, he will command 3 top 10 (possibly even top 5) prospects in return.
It’s a new world, new format that has far more buyers than sellers. The times they are a-changing.
I just don’t see how a GM in his right mind could deal 3 top 10 prospects for 2 months of a player. Think about that again, from a Braves perspective your asking for them to give up:
Teheran
Bethancourt
Simmons
for 2 months of Grienke.
Honestly I could see a Minor/Pastornicky deal working out nicely for both clubs…Two players that can contribute as soon as now at the major league level for the Brewers for 2 months (3 if playoffs) of a top 10 NL pitcher.
Mike Minor has little to no trade value right now.
I have lost all faith in Mike Minor. I think he should be replaced with Teheran this year, asap. Trade him for something we need (OF/SP). I don’t think the Braves will go after Greinke, but I’d be ok with him on our rotation.
Greinke is at the top of the Braves wish plans…I have already read that. Mike Minor is trash he always has been I never liked him when he was at Vandy. Why would you not like Greinke in our rotation with Hudson Greinke and Hanson at the top we would be nastyyyyyy!!! Jurrjens will be fine and we need to move Medlen to the #5 spot in the rotation because it would take Minor and Delgado to get Greinke in my opinion. I am okay with trading both of them because we have Teheran, Gilmartin, Spruill, Graham, and Lucas Sims down in the minor plus Hanson. Jurrjens, Medlen, and Beachy are all still fairly young. I say do whatever you have to..to trade for Greinke then sign him to a long-term extension. I say offer Minor, Delgado, Pastornicky and maybe a lower pitching prospect and that should get the deal done!!!! GO BRAVES
Do you read what you write? You just said Mike Minor is trash and then said you’d try and include him in a deal to Milwaukee. Why would the Brewers want trash for Greinke?
Medlen isn’t going to be put back in the starting rotation. Pen is still somewhat shaky before you get to Kimbrel so he’s needed there more than in than as a starter. And I will agree that while Braves do have young pitching on the way with Teheran and Gilmartin in a few years, I disagree on lumping Zeke Spruill in with them. Yes he provides depth but AT BEST Spruill will get a cup of coffee at the majors with the Braves. IMO he’s too buried on the depth chart to see significant time on the major league roster in this organization.
I digress, back to Greinke. I’d throw Minor, Spruill, and Todd Cunningham out there and see if the Brewers bite. For 2-3 months of Greike services (assuming he doesn’t sign an extension) I think that would be a more reasonable offer.
As a Padre fan I can’t help but laugh, Kotsay isn’t getting us anything better than a C+ type prospect.
sure, but when SD signed him, I thought it was a waste of a roster spot and would rob Kyle Blanks of playing time. Now look at him and his 123 OPS+.
Kotsay was highly effective for Milwaukee last season. He’s a good veteran bench guy that is still a decent pinch hitter.
so if I’m understanding this right, if Greinke is traded, whoever signs him in the offseason doesn’t have to give up a draft pick?
If the Braves trade for him, and he leaves in the off season for Colorado, Braves don’t get a draft pick for compensation. I think.
Would love Braves to snap up Grienke – but he really doesn’t seem much like a Braves kinda guy.
I assume you mean with he’s mouth, which can be unfiltered at times, because pitching-wise he very much fits in with the Braves kinda guy. Atlanta is a perfect place for Grienke to thrive, low-key media attention, fair playing park, and supporting young players who excel at defense (Simmons, Heyward).
Would anybody but me laugh uproariously if the Royals traded for Greinke?
He’s not thought of in a good light in KC.
It would be really weird to see in Greinke in Cardinal red. He talked trash on Carpenter last year so that would be terrible for team chemistry I think.
Greinke would be an excellent pickup for the WSox, problem is they don’t have nearly the prospects to make that trade happen. Even if they did, if he signs elsewhere for next season they get no compensation and will likely have lost what few even moderately valuable pieces they have.
Greinke would be a good addition to the Cards, no doubt. But I really think we need to work on the bullpen first. Aside from Boggs, there really hasn’t been a shut-down/get out of trouble type guy we can count on. Wainwright, Lohse, Westbrook, Lynn and even the youngster Kelley have done pretty well, IMO. Not to mention that being in the same division, the Brewers would ask for a bit more than others.
I wonder what it would cost the Dodgers for Greinke.
If Milwaukee starts showing signs of life with their homestand this weekend, they could easily turn in to buyers in that pathetic NL Central. Reds fans, don’t fool yourselves, no one is a clear cut favorite and there’s still another half of baseball to be played. Of course, Milwaukee has absolutely no prospect to deal if they do become buyers. Kottaras & Ishikawa doesn’t sound like appealing trade chips.
I was thinking that the Brewers would be hesitant to deal Greinke to a fellow Central Division team in fear that he’ll sign an extension, but the Reds have no shot of being able to pay him 125MM +/- this winter, seeing that they should just about be tapped out with their piggy bank.
Certainly possible.. depends on the farm system. Probably would make more sense to reference these prospects at their overall ranking rather than team ranking.
It depends how much the pitcher in question is deemed to be a difference maker. In 2008 the Brewers gave up Matt LaPorta (their number one prospect at the time), Michael Brantley (a top 10 prospect) and two other prospects to the Indians for half a year of C C Sabathia.
It took 2 top 10 prospects, including a number one. I think you’re minimizing by saying it only takes one top prospect.
If the Rangers lead with Martin Perez and Mike Olt, that would be a strong package to beat. That’s why all this talk of Mike Minor makes no sense. Greinke is the best pitcher on the market, and there are going to be a number of teams bidding up his services.