The Cubs have claimed Marlins righty Jacob Turner off revocable waivers, ESPN.com’s Jim Bowden was first to report (on Twitter). (Chris Cotillo of MLBDailyDish.com also reported the claim by the Cubs, on Twitter. Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports first tweeted that Turner had been claimed by a National League club.)
A deal is likely, of course, because Turner was designated for assignment and therefore would ultimately go back onto waivers if Miami were to pull him back. In that event, the same waiver priority order would apply. Only the Rockies (worst record in the National League) had a higher priority than the Cubs, meaning that Colorado passed on the chance to add the 23-year-old, once-hyped righty. That, seemingly, is a mystifying decision for an organization that has been clamoring for young pitching, especially given Turner’s increasing propensity for generating grounders.
Meanwhile, the Cubs seem likely to add yet another interesting young arm in need of a fresh start. In addition to showing a willingness to sign and flip veteran free agents, Chicago has targeted struggling-but-talented young pitchers through trade. After picking up Jake Arrieta and Pedro Strop last year in the Scott Feldman deal, for instance, the Cubs recently took Felix Doubront off of the Red Sox’ hands.
From the Marlins’ perspective, this move comes at an odd time. Had the team decided to part with him just a week ago, it would have had a much stronger position from which to craft a trade. Instead, Miami’s only leverage against the Cubs would be the possibility that Colorado might not pass on Turner a second time if he were to reach outright waivers.
Turner has talent. He just needs a chance to succeed. The marlins never really gave him a chance to get going. Great get by Theo and company.
Yeah, why on earth would the Rockies want a young pitcher with a bunch of upside. Not like they play in a park that requires extra-good pitching, especially ground-ball pitching, to avoid getting hit hard. Perplexing non-move by CO.
Yeah, Turner was a good low-risk gamble for any team. Surprised the Rockies would pass up on a starter like him.
Baffling. Would’ve been justifiable just to add someone just to throw for the rest of the year, even if he didn’t have some promise yet. If you want, stick him in the pen and try to work with him over the winter. Or showcase him and consider dealing him if he throws well. Whatever, just … do something.
Brett Anderson is about to hit the DL, which gives them at least an active roster spot and perhaps a 40-man. And I’m thinking a) Yohan Flande would pass through waivers; b) I’d take the upside of Turner on the off chance he doesn’t.
Yeah, there was no logical reason for the Rox to pass…and yet, they did.
Hah I was wondering this as well.
Great buy low move by Theo. Let him and Strailey get their confidence back in AAA and then have him compete for a rotation spot in spring training next year ala Arrieta last year. Colorado looked a gift horse in the mouth here.
he’s out of options…no going to AAA for him. He’s got to improve while on the job.
although, you could DL him for a “injury” and get him 2 starts or so in AAA.
he could replace Wada right now. wada has no future upside and I’d rather look at Turner, Straily, or Beller the rest of the way.
Straily is a solid #4 starter…Turner has that top of the rotation potential and he’s very young still. Marlins and Tigers organizations rush their prospects too often, and I think Turner given some time will develop very well into a #2 or #3 starter
Call up Doug Melvin re: Wang to learn how to do that
True, but it’s a very, very low pressure “job” right now. He’ll learn just like they’re doing with Baez (who always struggles for a bit at the beginning of each promotion). Hoping to get the kinks out for the rest of this year while focusing on starting 2015 strong.
Were the Rockies FO asleep or something?
they have been for a long time
Unfortunately, this is what the Rockies owner thinks is a great GM as well. That’s why he has had the job for 15 mind blowingly unimpressive years.
One tends to run out of excuses.
The Rox will always have 2007.
You mean the year where it took a nearly 20 game winning streak at the end of the year just to get to a play in game. One four week winning streak should not grant a lifetime job to the GM. They fired manager Clint Hurdle less than two years after that run.
You knew this was coming..fits just like Arrieta and Doubront. Just a change of scenery/coaching and he will be pitching just like a first round pick again. Atta boy, Theo.
I was under the impression that Doubront hasn’t thrown a single pitch for the Cubs yet. A bit early to be praising that one.
By my post I mean the same criteria, not that Doubront is fixed or changed like Arrieta.
Love this move. Hes only 23 too
What would be a realistic return to the Marlins? I’m having a hard time thinking of what Miami would want for him. On one hand, they DFA’ed him, so the return should be a minimal PTBNL type. On the other hand, this guy was a legit, top 100 prospect just 2 years ago.
Would a low-level, marginal upside player like Gioskar Amaya be too little? I would think a guy like Dan Vogelbach would be too much given that Turner was DFA’ed.
Side note, love this claim. In Theo and Jed we trust.
Yeah, Vogelbach would be ludicrous
I don’t know. I personally would like to see Turner + good pitching prospect for Vogelbach. He’s got no place on the Cubs other than a trade chip with Rizzo manning 1B till 2019 or 2021 if the Cubs pick up the options at the end.
Vogelbach could be another Greg Luzinski type of hitter…….no place for him on our roster, so maybe Theo can pull off a nice package.
Not saying just give Vogelbach away either. But maybe start using some of these lessor prospects to get the pitching they want in a deal like this.
Either Amaya or Hernandez, given all the infield prospect talent that’s blocking them. Not a bad problem to have!
That’s what I was thinking, but I wasn’t sure if one of them would be too little.
They have both been productive, but assuming the highly-touted guys pan out, the most they could hope for is a bench roll with the Cubs. Fantastic “problem” to have.
Even that’s too costly from the Cubs perspective. The Marlins only have 2 outcomes here. Trade to the Cubs for something OR pull him back and then the Cubs or Rockies would get him for free since he was DFA’d.
True, but the Cubs will do everything they can to make sure he doesn’t go on outright waivers. The Rockies would surely claim him in that case. Giving up a low-level, marginal upside player like Gioskar or Marco shouldn’t hurt the Cubs too much.
“The Rockies would surely claim him in that case.”
However, the Rockies SHOULD surely have claimed him in this case. I wouldn’t be surprised if they dropped the ball in that case as well.
Hahaha true, but I doubt Theo/Jed want to test that.
I am thinking Logan Watkins since they paased on him twice already twice to be put on 25 man roster and will need to be cut this offseason to make room for CJ Edwards on the 40 man roster
Both are rule 5 eligible after this year so I think they would have to be picked up by the other team knowing they were going to be added to the 40. Not sure if Miami wants to do that.
Mike Olt would make a lot of sense, but Olt would have to clear waivers himself.
Time to trade Amaya but not much value… he is rule eligible at end of year… so trade him or lose him most likely… or sign him to the 40. I just don’t see that. Cervenka, Edwards, Lopez and another catcher, Rhee and Pineyro are all guys they need to add to 40 man or lose to rule 5 possibly.
I don’t think the move is that odd for the Marlins. If they don’t think Turner can help their major league club win and they don’t have any options left on him, this is basically their only option.
Perfect fit for both
C’mon Rockies, what are you guys thinking? (not thinking much, apparently.)
That high Colorado altitude can make you forget what to do at times.
I don’t think it’s the altitude that’s making them high out there….
2015 rotation of
Arietta
Hendricks
Wood
Turner
Doubront
E Jax….okay… I am just kidding.
Lester / Scherzer
Arietta
Wood
Hendricks
Doubront / Turner / Staily
Hate to break your heart, but Scherzer & Lester are not coming to Chicago…….Ricketts is not ready to spend over $350million on two pitchers.
He was ready to give Tanaka 140 million last year –
This idea that Ricketts is cheap is wrong. The Cubs aren’t going to spend money just to spend it. If they see an Ace they want, they will shell out 150 million for Lester
But Ricketts didn’t….offer was $121 million……….and Lester will rather play in California or with the Yankees for $180 million.
The Cubs have that kind of money if they think that pitcher will be worth that money in 5 years. Renovation has started, new revenues from new signs next year. New TV deal the year after. Money will not be what holds the Cubs back from acquiring an Ace.
if Lester can get a competitive offer AND play for his old buddies Theo and Jed… where’s the downside? Nobody’s suggesting Lester would play for a discount, but if the money’s all the same, why not?
I’m also not entirely sure the Cubs don’t have the money for both Scherzer and Lester. i seriously doubt any team could pull off a FA coup like that, but the Cubs have very little in payroll commitments over the coming years.
You don’t know that. It was Theo and Jed who supported Lester when he had cancer. Don’t t think for a second Lester doesn’t remember that.
Just because Theo & Jed help Lester get through cancer, doesn’t mean he will sign with the Cubs. This game is all about ‘Business”.
Say what you want. People also show gratitude in sports every day. NBA, NFL, MLB players turn down more money all the time, if they feel the situation is right.
I can’t imagine there is a GM in all of Baseball, that Lester admires and respects more.
As I said before….Baseball is a business today….not a friendship club…….not “I owe you a favor” club……..GM’s make decisions to improve a team……not give a roster spot to someone based on friendship or past experiences…..sure Lester is great…….but if he did well in the A.L.,why take a chance in the N.L. with a team that has not proved anything yet !….let alone never been over 500 in the last four years.
Of course its a business but to say past friendships dont play any role at all is just wrong.
If it comes down to working for the Steinbrenner’s for 200 million dollars over 7 years, or Theo Epstein for 180 Million over 7 – I don’t really think Lester will care too much about the 20 million, if he trusts Theo and Jed and wishes to work with them.
You have no idea what Lester would rather do
Dont think he said both of them, he just said one of them. I think the Cubs are going to go after Lester and then hope Price hits the market in 2016
If the Cubs have a chance on any FA pitcher….it could be Shields.
Too old, no thanks. I dont understand how people say Cubs have zero shot at Lester, explain please lol
We can laugh together this off season when Lester signs with some other team than the Cubs.
They will sign Lester
I wouldn’t spend big on a free agent SP just yet if I were the Cubs. 2015 will probably not be their banner year, but it’s coming. Bryant, Alcantara, Hendricks, Vizcaino, Baez, and maybe Soler will be heading into their first full season in the bigs. The Cubs still have Wood and Jackson under contract, although I could see them flipping them at the deadline if they pitch well. After that, depending on how they pitch the rest of the this season, Doubront, Wada, Turner, and/or Straily could all realistically get some starts for the 2015 Cubs. I’d evaluate the talent next year, and possibly shoot big for 2016.
Why not? Their first round pick will be protected and the SP free agent list is not too bad this year. Of course they go get a guy this offseason
The protected first round pick is a good point I suppose. I would just hesitate spending big on as starting pitcher without the intention of contending right away. 2015 probably won’t be Chicago’s banner year, but 2016 might. The Cubs have enough rotation depth they need to evaluate.
you also never know what’s gonna be available next year… there could be nobody of Lester’s caliber to be had. And if there’s not, the Cubs are in deep trouble.
Exactly
I’m not saying the Cubs are going to be a playoff team next year just because the younger guys will struggle at times next season. But lets just say for the most part they click, you add a top starter, then with a bullpen which has been not too bad this year and the NL being pretty weak, the Cubs can maybe get a wild card spot
This basically sums up the fact that the Marlins and Rockies are two of the worst led organizations in baseball…
I agree completely. This only confirms some teams, including the Rockies, are run by people who really don’t know how to judge baseball talent and put together a solid team on a consistent basis.
so are you saying the Rockies FO did not stay in at a Holiday Inn Express last night ?
Marlins got some very good arms in their system….and great scouting.
no present infield or future infield though
Marlins are an expansion team with 2 WS. Can’t be that bad….
different owner, different GM, different players, different logo/name, different ballpark now…
Of course they have. Any sane club would. Only a dysfunctional group would give up great talent for Cosart and then cut loose away a younger pitcher with higher upside.
Just because Turner was placed on waiver doesn’t mean he will be traded, teams place tons of players they have no intention of trading on waiver this time of year.
But Turner was DFA so it would be dumb for the Marlins to not accept a deal with the Cubs because then they will just get nothing for Turner. Turner will not be going back to the Marlins
Miami needs to replenish young bats they gave up in Cosart trade. Cubs need young pitching. Both teams farms are mirror opposites. Match made in Baseball heaven.
let’s hope this leads to something more substantial than just Jacob Turner, though. let’s be honest, he’s not the pitcher he was once hyped to be.
if the Marlins and Cubs want to talk real prospect swaps, though…. now THAT could get interesting.
Not so sure. Just got done reading an article that said in 2014, Turner had a 63% GP rate on his 2 seamer put in play. In Wrigley Field, that plays nicely with the slow infield.
Jake Arietta wasn’t the player he was hyped up to be in Baltimore. Now he has a 2.11 ERA with the Cubs. As long as Turner is healthy, I will take him. 94 2 seem FB with good movement you can work with. Pound the zone with it. He obviously got off track somewhere in his head.
all true, but i’d rather not give up somebody good based on what Arietta’s done. Turner, for all his potential, has never managed to translate that potential into production… hence why he’s getting DFA’d.
I like the idea of picking up Turner as a project, there’s a lot of upside to be had… but he’s so much more a project than prospect at this point.
Cubs wont be giving up anything to lose sleep over.
I don’t think so at all. He is 23, with a 94 MPH FB, that Major League hitters beat into the ground at a 63% clip.
Start there.
He was brought up when he was 20. Change of scenery, new voice – will go a long way for a 23 year old kid that has been roughed up a bit.
He was called up way too early also by the Tigers in my opinion. Last year should have been the year when he made his debut
i guess that’s where we disagree… it COULD go a long way… it could also go no where.
Bosio, the Cubs pitching coach, worked miracles with Feldman and Arietta and Hammel, sure… but he couldn’t get anything out of Baker and Jackson has been a disaster since day 1.
Guess what, if it doesnt work out. So what, Cubs dont lose anything. Its a no risk, very high reward deal with Turner. Cubs dont risk a thing
so long as they’re not trading real prospects for him, which i can’t imagine they will, i completely agree.
I’d give them Almora and Olt, for Turner and Justin Nicolino
i’d go Olt for Turner, yeah… only Olt would have to be DFA’d as well which could complicate things.
Not happening !
Almora Noo! Give them Dan vogelbach, Gioskar Amaya and Olt for Turner and Nicolino
Jackson has been a disaster on 8 teams. 10 million dollar arm, and a 2 cent head. Even if he pitched out of the pen for a year throwing 95 MPH 2 seems almost exclusively – mix in a cutter or change while he develops an above average 3rd pitch, he has value. As soon as he can command a 3rd pitch, it sounds like he will have the career everyone thought.
Developing a 3rd pitch at the Major League level as a 20 year old starter – would have been hard for Doc Gooden. But he was dealing at 98.
Except the Cardinals, he decided he be good there of course lol
The Marlins are not going to replenish their infield off of Turner. You might get a lottery ticket for him ( 3rd base lower minors or SS lower minors ) but that is it.
But Turner was DFA so Marlins are going to make a deal with the Cubs because they want to at least get something for him. If they dont, then just just lose him and get nothing
Read the second paragraph of the post, man.
Turner was traded for Anibal Sanchez and Omar Infante two years ago. I love this move for the Cubs
Turner is 6’5. In my opinion he fits the mold of someone the Cubs can tailor to Wrigley,
in that he can throw high velo two-seamers with good plane. It worked
well with Jason Hammel and Scott Feldman the past two seasons and Turner
is more gifted than either pitcher has ever been.
Also, the Marlins and Cubs are a good match here. The Marlins have a bright future of pitchers (Fernandez, Alvarez, Eovaldi, Cosart, Hand, Koehler) but lack hitting prospects. The Cubs obviously have the infield depth to give the Marlins what they need here.
Cubs wont be giving up anything to lose sleep over, they really wont. They have the leverage here. It will be for a PTBNL and it will be a guy like Gioskar Amaya, Wes Darvill, Marco Hernandez
How do you feel about Olt?
No, I wouldn’t give Olt up. Cubs hold all the cards against the Marlins. Marlins want to at least get a guy for Turner. They dont work out a deal with the Cubs they just lose him for nothing.
Amen. He only threw his best pitch, 36% of the time this year. He needs a new voice in his head. When teams put his 2 seamer in play, they beat it into the ground 63% of the time – 0 home runs.
When he goes to his secondary Fast Ball and his cutter, he gets crushed. Needs to gain better command of his curve and or change up also.
But this guy just needs to pitch to contact. Bury that 2 seamer 50% of the time, and when it looks like a hitter is cheating on it, slam that cutter / slider in there in there.
Looks to me he is thinking too much and going away from his best pitch, and teams are only hitting 217 against his changeup – but he has only thrown 87 of them all year.
fangraphs.Com/pitchfx.aspx?playerid=10185&pos…
So he’s 11 days younger than Pierce Johnson and three months older than CJ Edwards. He throws a sinker that averages 92.6 MPH, doesn’t walk very many, and has MLB-average perpiherals.
And the Cubs get him for more or less free? The Marlins can pull him back and run him again, but they won’t get anything the second time because it’s irrevocable the second time you run a guy through August waivers.
Weird.
Jeff – just an FYI, only trade waivers give claiming priority to the league the player is in. If the Marlins can’t make a deal with the Cubs, and later have to ask outright waivers on Turner, the claim goes to the team with the lowest winning percentage regardless of league. That puts Texas and Houston back in the mix before the Cubs could claim again. Turner is designated now, so if Miami pulls him back on trade waivers, they would most likely ask outright waivers in the next couple of days. Either way as you said, they have no leverage. Might as well take the breathing body you get from the Cubs. If you even get that.
Wrong………..Turner goes through NL teams first……..Colorado gets another chance………….Turner is good as Gold that he is a Cub.
Colorado gets first chance regardless of the waivers because they have the worst record. If he is put on OR waivers, COL still has first crack, but TEX and HOU have rights before Cubs. The only waivers that stay within league first are Trade Waivers.
It was way harder than it should have been to find an answer to this, and in the end the document I found was from 2008 so it’s possible it changed since then.
Major League Rule 10(d)(c): “(C) If the waiver request is for Outright assignment waivers, Optional assignment waivers or Unconditional Release waivers, and more than one Club makes a claim, assignment shall be to the Club with the lowest winning percentage among the claiming Clubs, without regard to the League of the claiming Clubs.”
I think we are saying the same thing. Rule hasn’t changed since 2008, that is correct still.
The second paragraph stated…
“A deal is likely, of course, because Turner was designated for assignment and therefore would ultimately go back onto waivers if Miami were to pull him back. In that event, the same waiver priority order would apply.”
So, is the writer wrong as well for saying the same waivver order applies if thrown onto waivers the second time?
good move for both teams…cubs can literally trade a bucket of balls for the kid and it’s a better return than the marlins would have gotten had they just put him on outrights…just take it Miami.
Arrieta/Wood/Doubront/Straily/Turner sounds like the 2015 rotation?