The Mariners are expected to shop outfielder Michael Saunders at next week’s GM Meetings, reports ESPN’s Jerry Crasnick (Twitter link).
Saunders and the organization have had a recent falling out based on some comments that GM Jack Zduriencik made at season’s end. As chronicled by Ryan Divish of the Seattle Times, Zduriencik made comments suggesting that Saunders needs to reassess his offseason workout/maintenance habits in order to be better prepared to play over the course of a full 162-game season. Saunders declined to comment on the words from Zduriencik, but agent Michael McCann expressed both surprise, disappointment and frustration at the comments, feeling that they called Saunders’ work ethic into question.
Zduriencik later attempted to clarify, telling Divish that the comment was a general statement that could be applied to any player and wasn’t intended as an attack on Saunders’ drive or work ethic, but the situation does appear to have fractured the relationship between the two sides. Crasnick notes that both the team and player seem ready to move on.
Injuries have definitely been a problem for Saunders, who has averaged just 116 games and 428 plate appearances over the past three seasons as he’s battled shoulder and oblique injuries. However, there’s no denying that he’s a productive bat when healthy. Formerly ranked by Baseball America as the No. 30 prospect in the game, Saunders has batted a healthy .248/.320/.423 with 39 homers and 38 steals over those three injury-prone seasons. Context-neutral stats such as OPS+ and wRC+ (which adjust for his pitcher-friendly home ballpark) suggest that he’s been nine to 11 percent better than a league-average hitter in that time. His 2014, in particular, was impressive. In 78 games, Saunders hit .273/.341/.450 — good for a 126 wRC+ and a 128 OPS+.
Saunders is capable of playing all three outfield spots, though defensive metrics are down on his work as a center fielder. However, Ultimate Zone Rating and Defensive Runs Saved both agree that his work in the outfield corners is well above average.
I speculated in my Mariners Offseason Outlook that Saunders would likely be shopped, listing the Reds, Mets, White Sox, Giants and Phillies as a few teams that might have interest in the highly talented but injury-prone Saunders. I’d think the Blue Jays, Twins and Orioles are also among teams that could make sense, though all of these suggestions are purely speculative for the time being.
Bummer. I was just starting to really enjoy watching him play in Safeco. Definitely a very talented dude. I’m sure someone will be interested even with the injury history.
Get it done Toronto
He’d make a great Canadian DL duo with Lawrie!
That’s what Hanley Ramirez is for. 3B DL buddies. And Lowrie to go with Reyes.
How about Gose for Saunders?
I would do that in a second but I don’t think the Mariners would give him up for that. Maybe Gose plus someone like mitch nay? But I feel like the Mariners would want more immediate value. Too bad we already traded lind. Lind plus Gose would have made some sense.
You might have to pay to get the Ms to take Gose. He would have to be given up as fodder in a real deal for someone else for the Ms to be interested. He’s about as valuable as Endy Chavez. Realisticly, I don’t see any deal with the Jays that both sides would want. The Ms want a major league ready RH 1B or OF. The Jays wouldn’t be interested in trading Bautista, Encarnacion, or Pompey.
Kevin Pillar/Mitch Nay for Michael Saunders
I get the impression that Gose, because of his youth, speed, low pricetag and great defence, is valued higher than his offensive performance to date would otherwise seem to warrant… thus making him a reasonable return for a guy like Saunders.
The Mariners had the worst offensive outfield in the AL last year and they want to trade their only above average outfield bat?
LOL first thing that came to my mind.
No kidding. This team is depressing.
They don’t want to have to depend on him, because you cant, because he will get hurt immediately when he becomes a focal point.
So don’t depend on him. Let him be your third best OF and get offensively capable pieces to put with him. Saunders is an asset overall, not a liability.
A little easier said than done… If they trade him and get an outfielder who doesn’t always get hurt to replace him, it’s a win in my books. If we could get someone like Jon Jay for him, I would be all over that.
The Mariners aren’t exactly building his trade value though…
No, they definitely aren’t haha
Jack Z isn’t exactly a smart GM, though…
“Uh, yeah, you can have Saunders, but we want an equal player in return who doesn’t get hurt when he crashes into walls or when he dives for balls.”
Jon Jay and Saunders are not the same player. Saunders has more potential and has shown flashes of it, and maybe it would take Saunders and someone like Avery, but I would do that, to get someone more reliable, and likely won’t cost much to obtain.
Jay’s value went up by default with Craig being traded last year and Tavares’ accident. Cardinals might be looking to keep the reliable guy.
That’s true, I think I blocked Oscar Tavares’ accident from my memory
The word M’s fans spout to no end, potential lol. Hows Smoak doing btw or Ackley the cant miss prospect lol?
Plenty of veterans on the market too if you want to go for some “bounce back” candidates.
Smoak is mercifully gone and Ackley looks to be panning out finally. So ha
Yeah, lolzies!
Avery is no longer in the Seattle organization. 6-year minor league free agent.
He’s really not above average either. He’s much better against righties, as per his splits. Low power at a corner OF position really doesn’t cut it.
Hello, Melky Cabrera!
Realistic replacement for Toronto.
Trade him in a package deal with Iwakuma for a couple of Boston’s outfielders (maybe with other things to even it out, but this as a basis)? Boston has too many OFers and trading multiple for one would consolidate that some as well as giving them a pitcher they so badly need, and Seattle could significantly improve their offense and overall outfield in one move.
The Mariners really don’t need to create a hole in their pitching to fix one hole in their outfield, especially since there are some decent options out there instead of having to trade away their number 2 starter.
Allen Craig would fit great into Seattles line up. He can play LF, RF, 1B & DH. Right handed clutch bat.
Of course they do! The challenge will be making sure he goes to a division rival, rather than some other team, and assuring the return is weak.
I’m kidding. Seriously, these are just rumors. Hopefully they remain just that.
Zduriencik needs to go. Take that manager with you, too.
Lloyd did a hell of a good job and I think that Jack will be getting 2 outfield bats this offseason.
Could have fooled me. Sitting the best players regularly. Pulling Felix out of the game as soon as he hits 100 pitches, costing him like 5 complete games. Using platoons that didn’t makes sense, ALL THE TIME. Horrible base running. James Jones was the only thing keeping the team’s stolen base/caught stealing ratio from being embarrassing.
Sitting the best players regularly, you mean Saunders? When he got hurt and came back and McClendon would only play him 4 out of every 5 games, giving him a break every fifth game for someone who is always injured? That seems pretty reasonable to me.
No, like sitting Saunders in the beginning of the year in favor of Almonte. Sitting Ackley when he was the only outfielder getting hits. Playing Endy and Jones and Hart in favor of anyone else.
Do you actually watch M’s games?
James Jones the negative war player lol.
Look for the Mariners to acquire Alex Rios
Mariners fans will be awed by the intangibles Rios brings with his hustle and overall commitment to winning.
Wow. You clearly have never watched Rios on a daily basis.
Hustle? Hahahaha. He is lazy. Runs half speed to fly balls and jogs out grounders.
<—Joke—-
Your head
Lloyd played favorites in spite of results. Hitting his CFer first regardless of production cost this org a playoff birth. Lloyd is a good baseball guy but should not be a manager at this time.
What are you talking about? McClendon did an awesome job last season and Jack Z earned another crack at it.
I agree with you on McClendon, but not on Jack Z. On the whole, he hasn’t done very well with trades or free agent signings (Cano notwithstanding). He’s basically forced the M’s to rush prospects to the majors before they’re ready, and with the exception of Kyle Seager, none of them have panned out. Ackley, Smoak, Montero, Miller, even Zunino… all of them could have used a few more months if not a full season in the minors. I don’t believe he was worthy of a contract extension.
I agree, and earlier in the season, I was ready to let him go, but something Eric Byrnes said earlier this season has some truth to it. Not all the moves Z has made has been bad until after the players came in and “puked all over themselves”
If your profile pic is to be taken into account, Jack Z hasn’t really made any mistakes… just happy accidents.
Touche… 🙂
The players won in spite of McClendon. CF leading off all year and having the worst OPS in the majors killed the M’s chances at a playoff birth. Cano had no one to drive in, thus his worst rbi totals in a long time. Also, had Mac played Saunders down the stretch the M’s would have won enough for the wildcard.
Scooby Doo could have managed that team to a better record.
McClendon was adequate. When a team completely collapses down the stretch, the manager of that team can no longer be credited with an “awesome job”.
I wonder what kind of package it would take to land him. He’s a useful player and I’d imagine most teams in the league would be at least kicking the tires.
Tigers should be all over this for RF.
I was thinking the same thing. He would be phenomenal if Torii decides to stay as a healthy platoon option. Tigers need some LH bats and some speed, Saunders provides both
Torii and his .283 average should not be platooning
Wonder if the Braves could have some interest if JUp and Gattis are on the move.
I don’t think the Braves will move both JUp and Gattis. One, possibly.
Both could move. JUp is more likely because I don’t think he will re-sign with the Braves after the season. I would like to see him go to the Red Sox if he is willing to resign there. The only thing is would he play LF or RF.
He’d be a stud on the Red Sox, but they’d need to free up a spot for him and ensure he wants to be there long term, unlike what’s apparently swirling around with Cespedes. Additionally, no quarrel here having Upton in LF or RF.
Yea I know Cespedes is not going to stay here long term. So if there was interest from Upton staying in Boston I would not mind him. And the only reason I said I don’t know which side he would play is because I don’t know if he has the athleticism to play in RF.
Converted CF with an arm. Probably won’t be 2013 Victorino, but I doubt I’ll hold my breath if a ball was hit to him.
The Red Sox have too many OFers as is.
Cespedes, Victorino have one year left, Craig, Castillo, and Betts are a ?. Who knows where they’ll stand next off-season in regards to OF’s?
“Who knows where they’ll stand next off-season in regards to OF’s?”
I’m sure there are better options than Saunders. Betts had a great year and will likely be a starter, and I’m pretty sure they will be playing Castillo after giving him $75 mil. The Sox don’t need Saunders.
We were talking about Justin Upton. I don’t want Saunders on the Red Sox.
Whew, good, nevermind then. My bad man. Still, I don’t see the Sox going after him.
No, not likely unless they move Cespedes this off-season and the Braves are in fact shopping Upton.
Need? No. But I’d certainly take him; I like him as a bounce back guy out of Seattle/SafeCo.
In all honesty, if the Sox are serious about Upton and the Braves are about moving him, this offseason would be a good time to look into it and get Upton extended in a sign-and-trade. Braves get prospects/MLB players for him instead of a comp. pick, and the Red Sox can move some pieces to mold the outfield to their tastes and get some pitching in return. Having too many MLB-caliber players is a good problem.
Upton to the mets for montero pleweki and something else
Gattis is someone I would love the Mariners to get. I think that Saunders and a reliever but I am not sure if the Atlanta GM would do that deal.
Came to say this. Assuming they’re healthy they have similar value, but since Saunders hasn’t been able to play a full year the M’s probably have to add something to that deal.
Zduriencik really needs to work on his people skills, he’s way below league average. McClendon is guilty of aiding and abetting. Saunders deserved better, he’s not the one who should be shopped.
If the management doesn’t really like him, has a personal problem with him for whatever reason, it’s probably better for Saunders to move on now and settle in somewhere as he approaches his walk year.
Saunders has never been reliable, that is why they are shopping him. And McClendon did a great job last season. If Saunders doesn’t fit into McClendon’s and Z’s plan, it is purely because they don’t want to have to rely on him to contribute and be our right fielder when he gets injured for half the season each year.
2014 is the only season since his major league debut where he played in less than 110 games [factoring in minor league games for 2009-2011].
I don’t factor in minor league games since he didn’t contribute to the major league team. He was in the minors, for the most part, on rehab assignments and some due to performance. But the point is, he was hurt and while he played more minor league games, he only played about half of the season in the majors. Plus, until this year, when he came back from injury, he was basically a black hole at the plate until he got his timing back, which took another 2-3 weeks of playing time.
Your point was questioning his durability, so you don’t get to move the goalposts like that.
I wouldn’t call a 107 OPS+ from 2012-2013 a black hole, either. It isn’t going to win the MVP, but that is a starting caliber player.
I didn’t change anything. My point is that he is unreliable throughout the whole season and I can understand why the Mariners don’t want to rely on him. He isn’t durable, and it hurts the team. If he plays 50 games in the minors, he isn’t playing those games in the majors where he is needed.
Most major league players debut between the ages of 22-24. Most players do not hit like gangbusters out of the gate. That Saunders was an up and down guy from 22-24 isn’t really an indictment on his reliability.
The last 3 seasons he has been an above average outfielder and he has played 120+ games 4 out of the last 5 seasons.
It’s totally fair to include minor league games. The Mariners could very well have a healthy Saunders in the minors and instead be playing somebody else in the majors because of… whatever reason
Or are you not of the impression that Jack Z and McClendon sometimes (often) make questionable roster decisions and personnel moves?
Condor is good, but he gets injured more than Tulo, without the offensive production to make up for it. I completely get why they want to trade him, because he is good and should get a pretty nice return, but he is ALWAYS injured.
Reaching the offensive production of Tulo is quite a high bar for anyone. Putting it another way, last season he had a wRC+ 15 points higher than Pablo Sandoval (and higher then Pablo since 2011). He certainly has the potential ability for offensive production, and almost any team could find value in him as a 3rd/4th OF, particularly given his price.
Not saying he needs to be Tulo, lol, and he has performed. I just don’t think that he can hold up at that level for a whole season, which is probably what the M’s front office is thinking too.
The Giants should be all over this. When Pagan is in center, he can play left field. And when Pagan goes on the DL, he can go with him.
And what about when Saunders goes to the DL?
He’ll keep Pagan company.
Michael Saunders is a good ball player. End of story.
Franklin Gutierrez is a good ball player. End of Story.
Knowing the Mariners, They will probably trade Michael Saunders for Justin Smoak.
I would cry.
Mets?
I always thought Saunders looks a little like “pre-Yankees trade” Paul O’Neill (though not production-wise so far), but maybe he’ll put it all together at 28 like Paul did. Makes a lot of sense for the Mets to deal some pitching for, but last year I thought it made sense for the Mets to sign Jose Abreu, Alex Guerrero and Nelson Cruz and that didn’t happen.
What could the Mariners get for him?
terms of major league pieces, a bullpen arm?
So many people are blind to what Zduriencik is doing, including half the print media up here. Yep, I’m calling you out sports writers. Among the huge egos running baaeball teams Jack ranks numero uno, ironic because now with the off season GM shakeups he ranks dead last in the competency department. Step back and look what he’s attempting to do. Clearly one day in 2015, a day when King Felix isn’t pitching and Cano has the day off, he’ll have Lloyd run out an anemic starting lineup comprised of players his reime signed and then pat himself on the back to upper management and the press saying “See! Look what I did!” Remember, I called it. The reason he’s running Saunders out of town on a rail is Jack can’t stand the thought that someone else’s player (Bavasi/Fontaine) is the best player for his position. Hey Jack, I’m on to you pal.
Straight up for Gattis? or Saunders and another piece for Upton
saunders and a prospect for GATTIS or saunders and something else for justin upton?
Saunders would be enough straight up for Gattis no way the M’s would give more. But they would add more if for Justin Upton im sure even though only has 1 more year left of control
Nah, Gattis is a power bat who can catch, making him quite a bit more valuable than the oft-injured Saunders. Just ask Jack!
Gattis is more valuable. I’d want him if I were the M’s. Not sure if Saunders and Medina would get it done, but I’d start there.
Justin Upton still has a no-trade clause to Seattle.
Oh Please Jack, don’t trade our corner outfielder that has a career BA of .231 and .685 OPS, but hits closer to the Mendoza Line when runners are actually on base. Not sure how we will ever replace that. I can totally see why so many “Mariners” fans are upset with this! Hopefully other GM’s are drinking the same Kool-Aid that people on here are about Saunders, so we can get something of use.
Good thinking, M’s: trade your best outfielder, when OF is the team’s biggest need. Brilliant.
A left-handed bat who can’t stay healthy isn’t our biggest need. A right-handed bat who can produce, stay healthy and play either corner outfield position, first base, and/or SS would be our biggest need.
maybe he go’s to Atlanta once the Braves trade HeyHey to the Astros.
Saunders for Marlon Byrd – Mariners wanted him at the trade deadline last year and would still want him now… past years he’s averaged 25 HR’s and 87 RBI, is a good defender and has averaged 151 games and a .278 avg. At 8 Million for this year and a vesting option for 2016 – He’s not only better than the Free Agents Available, he’ll be way cheaper than Rios, Markakis, Cabrera, or Aoki.
Bryd’s 2013/2014 Averages:
151 Games / 608 PA / 562 AB / 73 R / 156 H / 25 HR / 87 RBI / 3 SB / .278
I would love to see a Michael Saunders for Alexi Ramirez trade go down. Saunders is cheap, young, and controllable for 2 more years. Ramirez is 33 and his contract is around $10 million for 2015. The Mariners need to improve their offense at SS for the immediate future and let Miller or Taylor properly develop. The Mariners have a small window with Cano and Felix coming to end of their respective primes (in the next couple years). IMO, Ramirez would be a solid but unspectacular offensive upgrade at a position of need for the M’s.
White Sox wouldn’t take that deal unless there was another piece involved. Everything else you said is right on, though.
I agree that it would take another moderate piece such as Brad Miller or Chris Taylor. However, with Ramirez’s age and contract I don’t see the White Sox getting much more than that.
vicideo for saunders
This is not cool.. Saunders is the kind of player you keep .. He has worked hard to improve every year, and this is how the Mariners repay him.. Bush league organization.
If you can’t consistently stay on the field you lose your value to an organization. I agree Saunders works hard and plays very hard but it’s undeniable that he can’t stay healthy for an entire year. The Mariners have to cash-in while he is still controllable/cost-effective and has some decent value on the trade market.
You know why I disagree with this statement players get hurt.. Injuries are part of the game. If he gets hurt playing hard for the team say going into the wall to make a catch how is this his fault? The guy has made improvements the last three years and has contributed every time he been put in the lineup. You are siding with the team that picked Almonte over Saunders. Why not get rid of every player who get injured,, Iwakuma got hurt playing catch so trade him.
Michael Saunders:
2011; 58 Games Played -0.6 WAR
2012; 139 Games Played 2.5 WAR
2013 132 Games Played 1.0 WAR
2014 78 Games Played 2.2 WAR.
That is an average of 102 Games/per year. In essence he misses 2 months a year due to injuries and demotions because of inconsistent play.
*Again, I am not saying he isn’t a valuable piece. I am a fan of Saunders and I couldn’t stand how McClendon played him sporadically last year. However, if you can get a productive and consistent player that can stay on the field for Saunders you have to explore that scenario.
I agree Larry M. There are different types of injuries, ones that are part of the game, and ones that are chronic and problematic. Saunders had the former type and not the latter. I wouldn’t be all that concerned with his injury history.
The only way this makes any sense at all is if another outfielder is part of the return. Part of a package for Cespedes or Justin Upton, maybe?
Saunders has an higher OBP than either player.. Cespedes I would take only because of his arm.
Maybe so, but both of them are still more durable and valuable.
Saunders was yet another guy the Ms rushed to the majors, and probably stunted his development in the process. He was called up to be a full time player in May 2010, this after struggling at AAA to start that year. He did do well in 284 PAs at AAA the year before in 2009 (.922 OPS), but he clearly wasn’t ready as evidenced by his .662 OPS with the Ms in 327 PAs in 2010. His OPS through June 1st of 2011 was at .471 before he was sent back down to AAA.
All that being said, I fully expect Saunders to have a Michael Morse type of breakout season if traded, just because that’s the way Mariners’ poetry is written.
Michael Saunders to Arizona for Mark Trumbo. Welcome Trumbino. DH and clean up for you.
Now get Allen Craig in RF and we are sweet.
Then spend on Jon Lester. AL West Champs.
Braves? They are wanting to shake up the outfield anyway. Revist the bad contract swap of bj Upton with the cubs then get Saunders?