The Phillies are honing in on a decision on lefty Cole Hamels, Jayson Stark of ESPN.com writes. There is at least some consideration being given to holding onto Hamels, per the report.
“This isn’t do-or-die for us,” says GM Ruben Amaro Jr. “In the end, it’s about, ’What is the return?’ and, ’Is this the right return?’ If it is, we’ll move forward. And if it’s not, we won’t.”
There are about six clubs still in talks with Philadelphia on the club’s staff ace, per Stark. But sources from other teams indicate that they believe the Cubs, Dodgers, Red Sox, and Rangers are most likely to land him. We heard yesterday that the Astros were also still in the mix, along with Los Angeles and Texas.
Regarding the interest of the Dodgers, Stark says that Philly has asked for as many as six quality prospects in a package that would not include top youngsters Corey Seager and Julio Urias. While Los Angeles won’t give up that volume, per the report, the industry consensus is that the Dodgers are in the lead.
As for the Cubs, rival executives tell Stark that Chicago is offering a deal centered around Starlin Castro and/or Javier Baez (though it’s unclear whether both would conceivably be included together). But Philadelphia is not enthused about either player. The Red Sox, meanwhile, just sent top evaluator Allard Baird to watch Hamels throw and obviously have a stacked farm from which to deal. While they (like the Rangers) don’t really profile as a traditional buyer, Boston could still act with the future in mind.
Stark goes on to discuss some other, less likely suitors as well as the impact of the team’s upper-level front office transition on trade talks. It’s a lengthy and information-packed piece that you’ll want to read in full for all the latest on Hamels.
Meanwhile, Philadelphia is obviously also listening to offers for closer Jonathan Papelbon. According to ESPN.com’s Jerry Crasnick (on Twitter), however, the Phillies are having trouble gaining “traction” on a deal. Papelbon’s $13MM option for next year, which is all but certain to vest at this point, “remains a sticking point,” per the report. Stark also adds (on Twitter) that, despite prior interest, the Blue Jays, Cubs, and Dodgers are not presently involved with talks regarding the reliever.
Meanwhile, Jim Salisbury of CSNPhilly.com provides an update on veteran second baseman Chase Utley, who says he is progressing as he works his way back from a sprained right ankle. As Salisbury notes, Utley could profile as an August trade piece if he can return to health and show increased productivity. While Philadelphia rebuffed the Dodgers and Marlins last winter when they asked about Utley, explaining that he was not interested in waiving his no-trade protection, Salisbury says that the 36-year-old “seems to have softened his position” on being dealt since that time.
I can’t imagine Starlin Castro has a TON of value. The same could be said about Baez. I’m assuming some other decent size pieces would have to be included in this deal?
If I’m another team I actually view him more as absorbing a bad contract than getting an asset. Two out of the last three years have been dreadful offensive seasons. His speed has declined so he is unlikely to yearly post very high BABIP like his first few seasons. Plus teams have a better idea if how to pitch him.
That is an interesting read from Stark But I think 1 team has been missing this whole time. The Cardinals. They have the prospect depth, the need, and the financial flexibility to pull this off. Grichuk/Piscotty, Gonzales/Kaminsky, Carson Kelly, and a lotto ticket could probably get it done. There haven’t been many rumors with the Cardinals, but that would be my darkhorse pick if it isn’t the Dodgers or Rangers
So the Dodgers don’t want to give up their top prospects for Hamels? but at the same time they want to add an ace to their postseason roster…. Hmmmm…. can you say … you can’t have your cake and eat it too. Come on, Dodgers are in fairy land. If they didn’t want to overpay for an ace during the deadline… they should have bought one in the offseason (Lester was available) or they should have developed one faster. If not, you are going to pay. 6 junk prospects for Hamels? Cole Hamels? You know, the guy who lead his team to 2 wins in the WS? Has Kershaw done that? No, and he’s had his chances. So, I’d love to see what they think they could get for trading Kershaw…. Dodgers need to stop visiting colorado so much, seems to be effecting their decisions.
They’re def offering to force the Phillies to include less money with Hamels than say Texas… obviously Seager and Urias are off limits.. but then what then becomes the focal point of a deal. I think the hype train on Jose DeLeon is insane. A 20+ rd pick out of college who just found increased Velocity? He is walking 4 per nine in AA with albeit a hefty krate of 11 per 9. But often pitchers walking that many in the minors have troubles at the mlb level
Texas and Chicago make the most sense for the Phillies. You can scratch off some of the top prospects and still make a deal and get good POSITION prospects. Pitchers have a significantly higher bust rate and its also easier to sign top pitching on the FA market than find top hitting.
For the Dodgers… Seager and Urias … I hope they can help the Dodgers win in the playoffs this year. Times ticking to for them to win a championship. Especially after all the money they’ve paid to get this close. If they don’t do it this year, good chance Grienke is lured away for more money… and then its the Clayton Kershaw postseason show … and no one else.. Thats scary. Let them keep Seager and Urias. For the Dodgers, it definitely crap or get off the pot time! The window is only open so long. I like Texas, from what i’ve read, plus he’d be in the AL. Chicago could be nice,but again, you gotta give up top prospects. Multiple ones. Why are the tigers thinking about dangling price? Because they think someone is going to pay the price, and they want to cash in as well. I;ve been a Phils fan a longtime, 30 years, they are not that far from rebuilding with or without Cole, if teams want him, they better pay, if not the Phillies will keep him. They have Crawford, Ruduolph, This years #1, a few international players coming, plus huge money coming off the books with an influx of cash coming from their new tv contract for FA… They could gobble up an ace this winter to pair with Hamels and Nola. They have decent prospects coming, its not the end of the world for the phillies to hold onto him. I hope teams see this, its not hard to see the Phillies ain’t budging
there no way urias come up dude still too young dude only like 18 maybe 19. maybe seager will come this season but to say either need to help to win a championship is crazy because neither will do anything in the playoffs since mostly likely neither will be called up
“obviously Seager and Urias are off limits”
Then good luck to you sir. Have fun watching your arch rivals win yet another world championship, dodgers brass.
I understand why Phillie fans believe Hames is better than he is so I hope Dodgers pursue Price or Cueto. In my opinion Hamels was never a true ace but did pitch really well 6 years ago. He is not an ace now so there is no way I would trade Seager or Urias for him. Maybe the Cubs will overpay for Hamels now, but I sure hope it isn’t the Dodgers.
Kershaw’s contract makes trading him impossible. If he was on Hamels contract, he would have approximately eleventy billion times more trade value than Hamels.
That’s about as half brained as anything I’ve ever heard. If the Dodgers offered anyone to take on Kershaw’s contract there would be 29 teams lined up. If the Marlins can afford Stanton, anyone can afford Kershaw.
Couldn’t agree more. If Kershaw was available, every team in baseball would be making offers.
I’ll one up you and say that if Walter Johnson was available…all 30 teams would be lined up to sign him…barring a check of his UCL
I’m impressed you were able to respond to that…impressive!
The Dodgers want to add an ace to their roster – but who says it has to be Hamels? Last I checked, they could still rent Cueto or Price. And if you think the price for either of those two players is going to be a top-5 prospect, then you just haven’t been paying attention to the trade market since the last CBA kicked in.
The last two Ace rentals to be dealt at the deadline were Zach Greinke (2012) and Jon Lester (2014.) In neither scenario did a team receive a top-5 prospect in the deal. The Brewers received the 55th ranked prospect for Greinke while the Red Sox received 1 year of Yoenis Cespedes (which they later turned into Rick Porcello, whom they promptly overpaid.) I’m sorry, but a top-5 prospect in today’s market still has more value than a guy with a year remaining on his deal.
I think you are def right and I do not believe the Dodgers are going to offer the Phillies a package for Hamels significantly more than they will offer for Cueto. Hamels is top choice because of getting him for future seasons, but I believe the Dodgers hope they can entice the Phillies by not asking for as much (possibly none) money to be included with Hamels. Which is something Texas can’t do (even tho the prospect return is likely better)
They will be “hoping”…. Hoping that Kershaw doesn’t implode in the postseason. Mainly because they wanted to hold onto Seager and Urias. Well, the Phillies will do just fine by keeping “their” ace as they rebuild. By the time they compete again, maybe he will drop to a #2, and that would be fine with me and a lot of Phillies fans. We don;t care to see a repeat of the Curt Schilling and Cliff Lee trades. Pay up, or take your chances, …. significantly less chances. Hamels has the ability to change your teams playoff fortunes for the next 4 straight seasons…. if your team can compete for that long, all while doing at under market value? Is Hamels really not worth Seager and Urias? I don’t see how a deal could get done for anything less. I don;t care about the new CBA…. Hamels is not a rent a player. The team has him for 4 years, he’s not a rental.
Hamels is not the guy he was in 2012. He’s imploded his last few starts and at this point he’s more of a number 2 than your number 1. Post season success in past seasons have zero bearing on any future results as post season is such a small sample size.
@mikesciosciasucks
I like how Hamels last few starts mean he’s more of a number 2 but at the same time his post season starts are too small a sample size.
Seems sample size importance is whatever you want it to be.
David Ortiz
Keep Hamels. He isn’t the pitcher he was 6 years ago and honestly he was never a true ace in my opinion. Definitely not worth Seager or Urias.
Notto be a troll …. But are aware of kershaws postseason record? I’m sure you know it’s 1-5, with a 5 plus era …. It gets worse as the stage gets bigger, 0-3 in the nlcs …. With a 7 plus era. Again not trolling, but if knew my star pitcher had that trend, I’d trade seager no doubt. The dodgers need an insurance policy., whether it’s hamelsor not. How is he doing this year? You think he’s pitched better thank is 7-6 record? Probably like Hamels. I know Dodgers fans have that doubt in their minds that he can’t arry them through the playoffs.. I hope you guys get someone to help Kershaw carry the load.
If they don’t offer significantly more for Hamels than Cueto they aren’t getting Hamels. He has way more trade value BECAUSE of his 3 extra contract years.
Royals sure did well dealing Greinke to Milwaukee.
Not bad points….. Except you got to remember that Hamels is not an “Ace rental”. Whoever trades for him….. Gets him for 4 postseasons, possibly 5 with the option year. The price is going to be way higher because he’s not a rental.. Heck, you could flip him in a year or two if your team falls out of contention
The question is, will you want a 36 year old Cole Hamels pitching for you in the postseason?
No one knows when his decline will be, and how steep it will be, but assuming the last few years of Hamels’ contract are a positive for a potential trading partner is a big assumption.
@seanG – he should be fine, but ill give you that the last year of his contract may not be his best, but… I standby the phillies for their high demands. He’s a proven big game pitcher, meaning he doesn’t crap out like Kershaw does when the lights are the brightest. He is not a half season rental, he’s signed to a very reasonable contract for his caliber player, for way less years then your going to get in the offseason. If a team doesn’t want to pay, im sure there are worse things than keeping an ace for so so prospects. Lol everyone is at a standstill … “If” this deal goes down, it will happen in the final hour of the deadline. GILLICK is going to play chicken, and im confident he will not blink first
Everybody is going to play chicken. That’s how the big deals are usually done at the non-waiver deadline.
They will, but the Dodgers will have the most to loooose. Another year gone in their window, another year holding their breathe as Kershaw implodes another bright lights game … If they get price, I’d say they’ll be fine, but it’s him or Hamels. Cueto won’t be able to pickup Kershaw in the playoffs. If I was a Dodgers fan, I’d want them to go for it, if I knew Grienke was potentially going to be pitching else where next year,and with a lot of teams ready to spend, I’d want them to seize the opportunity and put their best foot forward. That’s Hamels or price, regardless of the cost of prospects. At stone point the future becomes TODAY… Poo or get off the pot .
I’m not disagreeing with your point about the Dodgers have other options, but Oak gave up Addison Russell (an overall top 10 prospect) for Shark, and Hamels is much better than Shark.
As a Cub fan I don’t want them trading a Russell, Schwarber, Soler, or Bryant for Hamels. He’s a nice pitcher but he’s still owed a lot of money, even if it’s below market value. I would be ok trading a Castro or Baez, along with some secondary pieces, but I don’t blame them for not being interested in either player right now. Castro has been a stiff this year and Baez has to prove he can make more contact.
I’d prefer the Cubs just getting an innings eater and then make a run at Price (or one of the other big FA pitchers) during the offseason.
I’m ok joining the Cubs. Tired of playing for this team that isn’t going anywhere.
I want whatever Amaro is smoking.
For those same 6 quality prospects I much rather have the Dodgers go after Cueto or Price and bullpen pieces.
Please, have the Dodgers do so, because as a Phillies fan, I’d rather hold onto King Cole. The Dodgers can keep their “Middlebrooks”, Phillies don’t need them.
King Cole? Really? He hasn’t been “king cole” in over 6 years. And even then he wasn’t exactly King. Keep him rotting in Philly.
It depends on what those quality prospects were. The Dodgers were rumored to even be saying Jose DeLeon is offlimits. The Rangers/Red Sox/Cubs could tell the Phillies their top three prospects are off limits and then deal two of the next tier prospects to the Phillies with a fringe prospect added in and all three of those teams would be deals better than the Dodgers trading their #4/5/6/7/8/9 to the Phillies. The Dodgers do not have anywhere near the farm system depth of those other teams, especially in position prospects.
If the dodgers want to be THAT stingy…. They can’t be that serious. Hows this for a counter offer… Phillies offer their top 5-25 prospects for Grienke… Would that get it done? See, its all slop without the top 5, that are rated in the top 100 prospects across the MLB. Any team would rather keep Hamels for those offers. Its not enough to get it done.
I don’t think the Cubs would trade both Baez and Castro to Philly because the one that doesn’t get traded is the starting shortstop.
No, Addison Russell is their ss.
Oh whoops I meant second base.
Alcantara
Ian Happ
I would be ok with Baez and a few mid tier prospects. Castro doesn’t really make much sense for us unless we are going to flip him soon after.
Actually, Mr. Amaro, for you specifically, this is kind of do-or-die.
And saying “we won’t do it for the wrong return” is begging the question. It’s your definition of right/wrong return that’s in question.
Bill… Amaro is gone. He is a shadow puppet at this point. Its Gillick who is calling the shots for the last time in his career. This is his ride off into the sunset. He will set the market for future returns. He knows teams are going to cough up those prospects, no doubt about it. 2 of their top 3, and 2 of their top 10 gets it done. Anything less, and the Phillies will have Hamels pitching until he retires, like all the other 08″ champs.
Looks more and more like the Phillies just need to keep Cole.He means alot more to the Phillies than he does to other teams.Teams are just not gonna give up their top 1-4 prospects for an aging arm who makes a ton of money.Yes its market value at 20 mil+ but that market value is increased significantly with high prospects going too.If im the Cubs,Astros,Dodgers I say keep Cole and just buy a pitcher in the off season.I mean its an older Cole Hammels,not a young Roger Clemmens.
Compared to what the free agent pitchers of Cole’s caliber are getting he is dirt cheap!
23.5 million and top prospects??Hardly dirt cheap
Doesn’t Papelbon make sense to the Cubs? Edwin Jackson has been DFAd and is getting 11m next year.
Philly receive Edwin Jackson (DFA) 3m in 2016, plus a prospect.
Cubs get Papelbon.
The Cubs are throwing away 11m next year with Jackson. So it is basically paying Papelbon 5m for next season.
The Phillies wind up spending 8m for next season but hope to play Jackson to where maybe they trade him and eat some salary so it could wind up less.
I’d love for papsmear to be gone. He’s a great player, just impossible to cheer for. Not as bad as M. Vick was, but pretty close. I’d tke just about anything for him.
Why in the world would the Phillies do this? Unless they are getting a top 75 prospect back its a completely useless deal for them.
Why not try and trade Hamels as part of a 3-team deal? It’s considerably easier to get multiple higher-end prospects when there are multiple teams involved, as no team is giving up more than, say, 1.
dodgers arent getting hamels unless something changes i dont see it happening so can we just move on to rumors about other pitchers dodgers can get because hamels not the only one. it been said since day one of the new owners, the new owners are all about building the farm so unless they have a change of heart no way the dodgers do something to hurt the farm they are growing
Please, keep Baez and Castro, Cubs. We don’t need a “Homer or Strikeout” guy, and we already have Crawford waiting in the wings. Now, if Schwarber is the centerpiece, maybe they can get something going. Otherwise, hang on the Hamels.
Schwarber the centerpiece?They wouldn’t trade Schwarber straight up for Cole.
That’s why Hamels is still in Philly. Amaro asking for the moon.
Its not Amaro… its Pat Gillick who is calling the shots from now till seasons end… before he rides off into the sunset and MacPhail takes over. Amaro is all but fired.
Top three aces going are Cueto, Price, and Hamels, the Dodgers and Cubs looking to go to the playoffs. The Astros should also have a good shot. The Rangers and Sox are out. Hamels could go to one of those five, while Cueto and Price being rentals would only go to a contender. I like Hamels going to the Dodgers, Price to the Cubs, and Cueto to the Astros.
Phillies are in a tough spot. They can’t give hamels away for nothing but he’s not going to bring back a clubs top 1-2 prospects. So logic says to keep him but if they do they will have a longer rebuild and hamels last good years will be wasted. I think teams know he has to be traded so they’re trying to get him cheap. I still say Astros for Appel, Velasquez, tucker makes sense for both sides
The phila are in better shape than most think, but Hamels is key component. Then can keep him or not. Either way the rebuild continues. It goes both ways, they could trade him, get junk Dom brown style prospects and really slow down the rebuild, or they can keep him and expect to have him act as. A #2 or #3 when they get competitive near the end of his contract. The phils can buy their way out of this if Nola, Franco, Giles, crawford, and ruluolph are hits. New got a super high draft pick coming this year and next, the international signings, and tons if money coming off the books. If biddle can be a #4 or5, even better, sign a pitcher in the offseason and the pitching is rebuilt. Just draft, trade, sign hitters
That’s a whole lot of if’s.
Yeah, I get the sense that most fans are overly negative at this point, but I see a chance for them to turn around quickly 2017/18″, granted the right moves got to be made. It’s be done before, and it’ll be done again, I’m got my fingers crossed that the Phillies FO can figure it out.
Right there with you. If they make the right moves, I could see a turn around a few years from now. But I definitely think that all starts with getting a decent return for Hamels. If no one makes a good offer, then keep him. But if you get something that makes you go hmm, I almost feel like you have to pull the trigger. There’s a lot of risk in holding him for another year, but in no way am I giving him up if the best deal offered isn’t up to par.
My fingers are crossed as well. Here’s to hoping they’re able to move Hamels, Papelbon, and Revere for some prospects to help speed up the rebuild. And here’s to hoping they have a good GM and manager lined up in the offseason to help lead the way.
I got faith. I think they are positioned better than fans think. there’s a lot of pressure on them from different angles : tv deal, rebuild, new FO, scouting … But I think they’ll get it done. cheers, ill bee getting my popcorn ready on the 31st ifhamels is still here. He’ll be getting moved in the final hr for a haul. Bank on it
As a Phils fan, I’m hoping a Hamels to Houston/Texas deal happens. I like both farm systems and could see a good match with either team (if Hamels OK’d an Astros deal).
No I’m not playing in Texas.
Samardzija to the Cubs for prospects.
Phillies simply aren’t going to get the moon and the stars for Hamels.
I’m ready to pitch anywhere but Philly. I may just throw meatballs on Saturday and go directly to the Cubs dugout.