TODAY: The Marlins “discussed a deal” with Arizona that would have brought back Corbin, Swanson, Inciarte, Blair, and infielder Brandon Drury, Clark Spencer of the Miami Herald writes. That deal only “collapsed” when Arizona struck its trade with the Braves, he says, and the talks could illustrate a real willingness to trade Fernandez.
Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports adds (Twitter links) that at some point in the talks, Miami sought a six-player return that would’ve included Corbin and three other players who played in the majors last year for Arizona.
YESTERDAY: The asking price on Jose Fernandez is known to be sky-high, but reports tonight in the wake of the D-backs’ Shelby Miller blockbuster further illustrate the unlikely nature of a Fernandez trade. According to Clark Spencer of the Miami Herald, the Marlins were working on a trade with the Diamondbacks that would’ve included Patrick Corbin and Dansby Swanson in talks for Fernandez (Twitter link). Beyond that already-steep starting point, the Marlins asked that three other prospects be included in the deal, he adds.
Nick Piecoro of the Arizona Repbulic tweets that the package the D-backs sent to Atlanta to pry Miller away — Swanson, Ender Inciarte and Aaron Blair — “would not have come close” to what the team would’ve needed to acquire Fernandez from Miami, citing D-backs officials.
Similarly, Joe Frisaro of MLB.com reports (also on Twitter) that the Marlins asked the Dodgers to include not one or two but all three of Julio Urias, Joc Pederson and Corey Seager in addition to another pair of players. While reports earlier today indicated that L.A. was attempting to get a third team involved to find a creative means of acquiring Fernandez, that price tag seems like such a lofty starting point that it’s tough to even imagine talks becoming serious in nature.
Many will scoff at the reported asking prices listed here, but the Marlins have little incentive to trade Fernandez now without an offer that is impossible to refuse. We also don’t know whether other pieces were in play that would’ve gone from Miami to those clubs.
Realistic asks or not, the Marlins are placing an almost unmatchable asking price on Fernandez, it would seem, which lines up with most reports from the past few days. While he’s an oft-mentioned name, the most common refrain connected to Fernandez is that the Marlins aren’t trying to move but are instead simply open to being overwhelmed by an offer for their young ace. It’s easy to forget that Fernandez is still just 23 years old — younger than NL Rookie of the Year Kris Bryant. And, to this point in his career, Fernandez has pitched to a 2.40 ERA with 10.5 K/9, 2.7 BB/9 and a 44.6 percent ground-ball rate.
Three years of affordable control over a 23-year-old starter with that track record of dominance ranks among the most valuable commodities in all of baseball, although one can only wonder how high the asking price would’ve been had the Marlins kept Fernandez in the minors for a couple of weeks to open the 2013 season. Because Fernandez was a 20-year-old that hadn’t pitched above Class-A Advanced at the time, no one would’ve questioned the move, and Miami could have subsequently delayed Fernandez’s free agency until after the 2019 season. Instead, Fernandez received a full year of service time in 2013 and is now on track to become a free agent after 2018.
It’s clear the Marlins have no intention of trading Fernandez… but these proposals almost come off as trolling. It’s like we all expect the Marlins to trade Fernandez because of their history of making similarly stupid decisions… and the Marlins are just playing off that perception to mess with teams.
Something tells me, though, that this is going to backfire when it comes time to pay Fernandez (either in arbitration of through an extension), and he looks at these offers to justify wanting $250 million.
It won’t affect arbitration. Yes he could ask for some outlandish number, but if the Marlins counter with something reasonable then the Marlins will win the hearing.
Yea. You’re right. Arbitration is based on similar player comps – but still… you just know this is going to bite them! I do find their trolling to be hilarious. I just wish they’d take it to a different level and ask the Nationals for Bryce Harper and Mike Trout… “Oh. You don’t have Trout? Well, go get him for us.”
Wonder what kind of haul Chris Sale would bring…
What if the Marlins proposal was Fernandez, Prado and Ozuna for Saeger, Urias, and Pederson? It may have been for all we know. Seems like a pretty fair deal.
You read that wrong, it was Seager, Pederson, Urias, AND 2 more guys for Fernandez, not those 3 for Fernandez and 2 others.
I’m sure the answer would still be no
Fair? NO. Seager has sky high potential as he showed in september and Urias is an 18 year old phenom whos already in Triple-A and could pitch within a year at the major league level. Fernandez is worth ONE of those top prospects and other minor prospects.
And Dont forget about Fernandez’s terrible attitude in the clubhouse.
Urias, Seager and Pederson?? Marlins are just screwing with people. They have no interest in doing anything. Then again if the Braves can wipe out the Diamondbacks for Shelby Miller I guess maybe he is worth it. Those 400 bazillion dollar Greinke and Price contracts are looking better already.
I know Fernandez is thought of as highly as Nolan Ryan mixed with Koufax and Gibson with a dash of Cy Young in some parts of the net, but those packages seems just a tad ridiculous. The guy has only pitched 1 full season in the majors. Granted he has been great, but those packages should get you Kershaw. And Fernandez is not Kershaw. At least not yet.
Great point – he’s not Kershaw yet. However, he is a generational pitcher. He has Harvey fierceness and Kershaw’s ceiling. Even after having TJ and fully recovering, he’s only 23-years old. I don’t blame the Marlins for realizing what he means to their franchise… and they probably should keep fishing while the interest in him is over the top. If I was the Marlins GM, I would approach the Nationals about Lucas Giolito, Trea Turner, Drew Storen, AJ Cole and Michael Taylor. On the return, I would kick back Ozuna and Jose Fernandez. I don’t think their asking price of Seager and Urias is extraordinary honestly. I would want more back as well. Jose Fernandez is almost a guaranteed win every time he pitches in Marlins Park. Fans love winners and Jose is the one person that brings fans to the park when his turn is up in the rotation.
A generational pitcher……..A generational pitcher should be able to pitch anywhere. Take Fernandez away from that huge, spacious home field….and his ERA jumps up 2.38 runs. 1.40 ERA at home and 3.78 on the road. He allows a 131 OPS+ in road games.
That’s a 131 tOPS+, which is his OPS+ in that situation in relation to his career OPS+ given up. Granted that’s still 31% worse than his average OPS+, but his away OPS is .636 vs .486(!) at home. .636 is borderline dominant. .486 is absurd.
I really REALLY dislike the whole Marlins organization. I really really do. I realize that he controllable for a decent time but there is one thing that erks me. Hasn’t Jose Fernandez had Tommy John? Most first case Tommy Johns has like a 90-95% success rate and still have a good professional career, but a second one, which is a lot more likely to happen after a prior procedure only had around a 10% success rate. Why would I (given, it’s a long shot) as the Dodgers GM trade not one, OH baby no, but TWO of my 3 top prospects considering Seager had a decent extent in the Majors and Joc slumped and Urias hasn’t had a taste but still that just blows me away. Kind of reminds me of Tony Saunders, allbeit he wasn’t as good of a pitcher as Jose but that guy broke a bone in his arm and his career was done, and he was 20 something. I know I’m picking straws but still. Also on the topic of the Marlins pissing me off is their Firing of Dan Jennings. He did what he was asked, even though I don’t agree with him taking the Manager job, he still lead them to a respectable time under his ways, but he got fired for it, and last thing, isn’t Jose Fernandez just a “cancer” in the club house? Or am I just hearing that.
I know this dude could be the next big thing. But trading Seager , Pederson and Urias would be the dumbest thing ever for the Dodgers. I would boycott if Dodgers gave up all 3.
You have no idea what the full Marlin offer was … the article said that other Marlins may have been involved.
It doesn’t matter what other Marlins were involved. Interesting, though, that Friedman basically put himself in the position to have to consider such a rediculous ask by miscalculating on Greinke. It’s like a domino effect that almost results in a bit of a panic to match Greinke’s performance. Not to mention that Chapman debacle.
Who says Friendman miscalculated on Greinke? I said this when the Cubs 7 year / $161 million offer for Price was reported. Guys like Epstein and Friedman are too smart, too connected, and have been doing this for far too long to miscalculate to that degree. Their offers came in lower because that’s how much they were comfortable spending on that player – not necessarily because they thought that would be the best offer the player received.
Friedman wasn’t as uncomfortable with the $$$ as he was with a sixth year (his comment). However, he acquired and released players in 2015 with more salary than he would’ve paid Greinke in that sixth year, so money wasn’t an issue. He himself said that he never anticipated AZ to swoop in last minute and steal him away. THATS a miscalculation. And, yes, even geniuses like Friedman and Epstein miscalculate. I personally think Theo is the better of the two.
Would you have give greinke 210 million or use that money on other area like the pen knowing that your already paying Kershaw about the same amount and trying to lower that payroll.
I would’ve given Greinke the $$$ and used very good, but not premium, prospects to try and upgrade the bullpen. May have had to part with one of DeLeon or Holmes, but rather use Lee, Schebler, or others. Just a thought.
The Fish can ask whatever they want for him. They control him for several years on the cheap so whats the hurry? Tampa and Oakland usually wait until the last year or so before they move their pitchers. Sure his value will drop the closer he is to free agency but so what? If he continues pitching at the level he’s capable of then they’ll still get a haul for him down the road.
This exactly. Not sure why everyone seems so offended by the Marlins ask. There nowhere near we have to trade him time. So they can ask for whatever they want and hope a team gets desperate. There’s nothing wrong with that.
*They’re. When are we going to be able to edit posts again?
Probably after the winter meetings when the site traffic isn’t as crazy.
Trade Urias/Pederson/Peraza or Urias/any outfielder and get a third team involved to make up the rest
I may be mistaken but aren’t teams calling the Marlins not vice versa don’t like the asking price don’t call?
That is what I am thinking too. HAHA
Pederson, Seager, and Urias sounds like a lot for Fernandez. However after the package that Atlanta just got for Miller, then Marlins can ask for whatever they see fit! Basically, Fernandez isn’t going anywhere. Then again I didn’t think miller was going anywhere with what Atlanta was asking for, but I feel they got a better package with Swanson, Inciarte, and Blair then Pollock.
So basically the Marlins want a re=creation of the Godfather, “I will make you an offer you cannot refuse.” This year every player seems to be overpriced, no matter who it is. It’s getting out of hand.
If he were to be traded the Marlins better get an insane package for him because it’s entirely realistic that once Kershaw begins to decline from his best years, this kid is the next top pitcher in the game. He is scary good. It wouldn’t happen, but being in the NY area and hear Yankees fans suggesting they get him has made me wonder. Yankees get Fernandez and Ozuna. Marlins get Severino, Judge, Bird, and Sanchez. Yes the Yankees are emptying the farm for him, but they are getting a young controllable (and they have the finances to extend him) ace and perhaps even the best pitcher in the game.
You would need to package Severino, Judge, Bird and Sanchez just for Fernandez. If you think thats too much, consider that the Marlins asked for Seager/Urias/Pederson when all three are considerably better (at least Urias is just as dominant and younger than Severino, Pederson is a more athletic Judge with perhaps not as much power and Seager is one of the top prospects in baseball). You want the Marlins to throw in Ozuna too?
Why ignore the fact that other Marlin players could have been involved … as stated in the article?
Best pitcher in the game? Really? He has pitched a grand total of 289 innings in his career. He is not even the best pitcher in the NL East.
Considering what the DBacks just gave up for Miller, I’m not sure any team has enough to get Fernandez. That was a joke of a trade for a fringe 2 pitcher. What teams would pay that asking price? Only two or three teams even have that type of young talent to pursue a trade of that magnitude. Cubs, Dodgers, Red Sox, and now braves.
LaRussa drafted Miller and he obviously feels that he is more than a “fringe” 2.
So basically the Marlins wanted Joc Pederson, Corey Seager, Julio Urias, Jose De Leon and Grant Holmes just for Jose Fernandez. I know Loria and Hill are probably cracking up at how funny their offers are but why even listen if you are going to insult other teams like that.
“We also don’t know whether other pieces were in play that would’ve gone from Miami to those clubs.” As long as you’re aware you are commenting blindly, it’s all good. As the article said, we don’t know what Miami offered.
Given the $ prices for aces Price and Grienke, and the asking price for Fernandez, the Mets should call the Dodgers and offer Harvey straight up for Corey Seager.
Will need more than Seager for Harvey
Better chance at Urias or de Leon. I don’t see any scenario where Seager is traded. He’s projected to be a starter next year and played extremely well in a small sample last year.
Given the asking prices why not just wait out the next 3 years until he hits free agency at 26 in his prime to probably top greinke and price’s new deals if he can stay heathy and continue the pace he’s already on
Because there are 3 World Series being played between now and then and some teams might actually want to try and win them.
See for every body saying what I was put out there all my trade proposals don’t look so craze after all . As long time Braves fan I like the trade for miller I hope in few years I love it. But Atlanta if we really going to blow this up then we should trade Freeman tehran markakis any of are other vet that make any money try get best prospect like my trade proposal that I was told was joke last week Atlanta trades with Seattle
Seattle gets
Freddy Freeman
Julio Tehran
Erik aybar
Nick swisher
Jason grilli
Matt Marksberry
Brandon Cunniff
Christian bethancourt
15 million
Braves get
Taijuan Walker
Mike zunino
Of Alex Jackson
D.j Peterson
Of Austin Wilson
C Tyler marlette
P Danny hultzen
And com pic
Doesn’t look so over rated now
Then Braves could then
Trade with Pittsburgh
Austin Wilson
Arodys vizcaino
Andrew mckirkhan
C mike zunino
Alex grosser
Ruiz
To the Pirates
Braves get
Jeff Locke or
Charlie Morton
Austin meadow
Reese McGuire
Kebryan Hayes
Mike morse
Stephen tarpley
And com pic
And then Braves could trade
Nick Markakis
And William Perez
And Jeff Locke
To Baltimore
For Brian Matusz
Hunter Harvey
Christian Walker
Mike Yastrzemski
And
Braves trade
Joey terdoslabich
Alex Jackson
Adonis Garcia
And Kyle kinman
To Indians. For
Clint Frazier
Justus Sheffield
Brady Aiken
For
Your trades completely ignore major stepping stones in any deal.
1) Teams aren’t willing to deal certain prospects (such as Seattle unwilling to trade Walker).
2) There is such a thing called a cap. Simply throwing in money doesn’t make it go away.
3) Just because you throw in a good player or two, doesn’t mean that a team will take all of your outcasts. The Seattle trade, for example, Seattle isn’t going to take Swisher and Aybar off the Braves hands just because Freeman and Teheran are there.
4) Teams have players they hope to play at certain positions already. Seattle, for example, has Marte/Taylor and Cano that should be the starting SS/2b combo. Aybar has no role there. Also, the Mariners plan is to DH Cruz most of the time, leaving no room for Swisher if Freeman were to be hypothetically acquired in a deal.
5) A team isn’t going to completely gut their farm system and/or trade any good young players they may have. Winning is always the goal, but building for the long term is/should be a secondary goal that shouldn’t be overlooked.
Also 6) This isn’t a video game
I’m a huge dodger fan and I’m very big on Jose Fernandez. I would be content with the Dodgers giving up joc and Urias, and some other guys but NOT Seager. Don’t get me wrong I think Urias is great, but Jose Fernandez has proven himself in the big leagues. I think if the Dodgers can somehow pull this off without giving up Seager they should do it.
I wouldn’t give up Urias either. What he has done in the minors against much older competition has been outstanding. And don’t forget Fernandez is not far removed from TJ surgery.
I am also a dodger fan and seeing how you would be ok if they gave up Joc and urais just makes me disappointed in you.
@CJH this isn’t MLB the show and that trade won’t ever happen, LOL. Stop playing games.
I’m with you! Seager is untouchable, as far as I’m concerned Urias is young and and will be great. But Fernandez is also young and IS great. If Fernandez was 5yrs older, a third team would jump at this opportunity to make something happen. I think the dodgers win either way.
No Urias is young and COULD be great. Why do people always forget that can’t miss prospects miss all the time?
Bryce Harper was a can’t miss prospect. He might swing-and-miss every so often but I don’t think anyone would call him a “bust”.
Um, that’s great but what does that have to do with anything. I wasn’t talking about the successful can’t miss guys. I was talking about the guys that didn’t make it. The point is that we don’t know yet which category Urias is going to fall into.
You literally just said “can’t miss prospects miss ALL the time”. I proved you wrong by saying Harper is, in your own words, “successful can’t miss guys”. I agree we don’t know which category Urias will fall into but to instantly deem him a “bust” based on what you are implying in your first reply is hypocritical of your last reply.
Man, someone people and their trade ideas are out of this world.
2016 Dodgers fans,
“That’s outrageous to ask for those young players. We have a future to build on.”
2016 Pirates fans,
“Give them anyone! Glasnow, H-Ram, Bell, Taillon, Meadows, Elias Diaz, Reese McGuire.
We’re tired of living in the future.”
Oh how the mindsets have turned since both teams became relevant again a few years ago.
Depends on where the team is at the moment but
we haven’t seen many complete make overs before.
Kinda illustrates how hard it is to balance the two mindsets or go in a single direction.
The White Sox are a great example.
They’d like to build off of Sale and Abreu but they don’t have other talent to go all in.
They settle for a fill in like Laroche and it completely blows up in their face.
Baseball isn’t an exact science people.
As bad as some things may look
there maybe facts that we might be overlooking as well.
Um what Pirate fans are saying that? And if they are, they arent very smart Pirate “fans”
The Marlins front office did say Fernandez is untouchable. While no player ever really is, this is what untouchable actually looks like in baseball talk. It’s when you set the price for a player so insanely high that nobody in there right mind would agree to pay it and you would be an idiot not to take it if they actually paid up
I don’t care if it was Jesus Christ the Dodgers were trading for I still wouldn’t give them Urias, Pederson, Seager, and two other prospects. I really don’t think I would trade any of those 3
Really? What if the Marlin offer was Fernandez, Gordon, Ozuna, and Prado? As far as you know, it might have been. “We also don’t know whether other pieces were in play that would’ve gone from Miami to those clubs.”
They would still say no
Are you trying to say “Jesus Christ cant hit a curve ball”
Heard that in major league
Well done!
those are the types of packages that It would take to get sonny gray and chris sale but maybe more
Jose come to that rangers
Only if your willing to give up 4 or 5 of their best young players
Why is everyone singing Urias praises?! He hasn’t even pitched in the majors last time i checked. Also, maybe a reason the Dodgers didn’t bring him up at the end of the season because he last two starts in Triple A he gave up 9 ER in 4.1 innings
Its because urais is one of the best pitching prospect if not the best in minors. Since they got him around 16 or 17 they been taking him really really slow. He didnt get called up in sept because he had just barely got called up to AAA around that time. Even if they call him up I doubt they would let him pitch more than a hand full of innings. He did get the sept call up in 2014 but I don’t think they let him pitch in games.
Yanks will make a deal for jose. Gardner, Judge, refsnyder, mateo and make two other lower tier prospects
not enough
So all Arizona would have done to get Fernandez instead of Miller would have been toss in Drury and Corbin??
Heh. Heheh.
Dang, tough to look at this now