SATURDAY,9:26pm: The White Sox aren’t motivated to trade either Sale or Quintana, multiple major league sources told Rob Bradford of WEEI.com.
7:52pm: The Rangers are currently unwilling to trade Mazara for Sale, but they’re open to dealing Gallo, Profar and some of their pitching prospects, per Sullivan.
3:06pm: Rangers outfielder Nomar Mazara is on Chicago’s wish list if it swings a deal with Texas involving Sale, reports Sullivan (Twitter link).
FRIDAY, 5:23pm: The Rangers are “making [a] serious effort” to pry Sale loose from the White Sox, according to MLB.com’s T.R. Sullivan (via Twitter). Evan Grant of the Dallas Morning News reported recently that the two teams were already chatting about Sale (and Quintana, too) before it became apparent that Chicago was leaning toward selling.
There’s “no indication” as yet whether these talks are going to go anywhere, Sullivan notes, so it doesn’t sound as if there’s anything building in the immediate term. Indeed, Grant adds on Twitter that no “serious talks” have occurred as of this point. The key takeaway seems to be that Texas at least plans to take a real shot at pulling off a blockbuster.
Indications are that Chicago would have interest in Joey Gallo and Jurickson Profar in any scenario involving Sale. We’ve heard those two names quite a bit of late, and obviously the pair carries a lot of trade value. Still, it’s quite likely that Texas would need to add some real talent to that package to get the White Sox to budge.
Sale, after all, is just 27 years of age, remains under control at cheap rates through 2019, and carries a 3.18 ERA over a league-leading 133 frames on the year. Particularly with the contracts factored in, Sale is one of the most valuable single pitching assets in all of baseball — with Quintana not far behind him.
3:47pm: The White Sox are taking quite a few calls from rival organizations after reports emerged yesterday that the club is prepared to sell. While the extent of the sell-off isn’t yet apparent, and staff aces Chris Sale and Jose Quintana figure to be the most difficult pieces to pry loose, Jon Heyman of Fan Rag writes that the South Siders are at least willing to hear scenarios involving the top southpaws.
Per the report, the Red Sox are among the teams to have logged a phone call with the Chicago brass. Heyman suggests that Boston could theoretically also have interest in reliever David Robertson, and also notes that the Dodgers will surely check in on Sale and Quintana. No doubt plenty of other teams will also; as the recent chatter surrounding Chris Archer shows, controllable standouts draw wide interest no matter the time of year.
Ultimately, it seems that the White Sox are mostly looking to gauge the market for Sale and Quintana as they assess how far to go with their sales plan. GM Rick Hahn has acknowledged that the team won’t buy short-term assets, but hasn’t declared his organization open for business on the sell side, and it’s possible to imagine the club taking various routes given its array of veteran talent. Certainly, there’s no urgency to deal a top arm, though perhaps the Sox wonder if the time could be ripe with the market seemingly lacking the supply to match the demand.
The most likely pieces to be traded, generally, would be pending free agents. But as Chicago’s depth chart shows, the team’s walk-year vets don’t hold much appeal: Austin Jackson and Alex Avila are hurt, while Dioner Navarro has been ineffective and Justin Morneau only just returned to the big leagues. The Sox have one more season of arb control over infielders Todd Frazier and Brett Lawrie; there’s one more year on the contract of southpaw reliever Zach Duke and two to go for Robertson. Both Melky Cabrera and James Shields could draw interest, though their expensive contracts will require some number-crunching.
The team’s true core, though, lies in the players it has locked up to lengthy deals. First baseman Jose Abreu has had some down moments, but remains an appealing asset. Outfielder Adam Eaton is a great value on his contract. And then there’s Sale and Quintana, who are probably the most appealing White Sox trade chips of all. Of course, their extremely favorable contracts, young age, and top-level production all make them important assets to an organization that probably doesn’t intend to oversee a full-blown teardown. But taking a package of near-MLB prospects could theoretically still make sense, and it seems that Chicag would like to at least know what’s possible.
Mbolled
Roberson makes a ton of sense for Red Sox. When totally healthy makes sox bullpen lock down and a 6 inning game with best offense in baseball. Love Sale, but not giving up best prospect in baseball in Moncada or your starting left fielder next season with Benintendi. Devers or Swihart sure, but unless either pitcher goes to AL east, who is dominate in Anerican league. If he goes to National League, see you in World Series
Brixton
The Red Sox absolutely will not acquire Sale if Moncada/Benintendi is off the table.
ImDaBaron
Exactly…it’s just so easy once you take anyone out of the lineup from being traded plus your best prospects…then you get some of the best pitchers in the AL back.
Man GMs need to get on this!
giants51
Boston doesn’t need another left hand starter
Priggs89
If it’s Chris Sale or Jose Quintana, yes, they do.
Austin0723
If they throw in Devers, Swihart and two more lesser prospects I think they might be able to pry Quintana out a little bit
Priggs89
Swihart’s value has been diminished significantly, unless the White Sox are 100% sure he can be a big league catcher, which is doubtful. Also, I doubt the White Sox are interested in Devers as a headliner for one of their best trade assets; he’s too far away from being a contributor. I’d be willing to bet they prefer the headliner (at the very least) to be major league ready (or VERY near it).
rickp
Your dreaming it would take Moncada and Benintendi just to start a serious conversation, your trying to acquire the best pitcher in baseball not named Kershaw plus he’s under contract for 3 more year and he comes very,very cheap for a player that’s this good. He’s never had an injury and is the wirery kinda pitcher that usually does not develop arm problems. Prospects are just that,if they were that good they’d be in Boston not on the farm they may never work out happens ALL the time. If you can get Sale and Robertson you give up anything Chicago wants that’s not an everyday starter and the run, I’m not a Boston can but am somewhat knowledgeable baseball can and I do not think you have the pitching as is to win the WS, Jmho
1tav
How about a Cubs-Chi-Sox deal. Sale for Schwarber, Baez, and Solar. Cubs could a #1 SP, and not disrupt their starting line up.
nevertrustpitchers
Good then. This is baseball, even one of the top players in the league still only moves the needle a little but when it comes to contending for a WS. Also id hate to see them give up a ransom of hitting prospects for a pitcher. I get that Sale has been elite but what are the odds that any elite pitcher will continue that success? Just say no to overpaying for pitchers.
adyo4552
I wonder what pitcher Devers + Swihart would get you, straight up. Both are blocked for the foreseeable future, with Moncada at 3rd, Benintendi in LF, and I don’t think Boston wants Swihart at C.
jakesaub
Devers has a future at 1B/DH depending on whichever isn’t occupied by Hanley. I do agree that Swihart is pretty much completely blocked if he’s not a catcher moving forward. Maybe Devers, Swihart, and Chavis can get close to Jose Quintana.
Priggs89
They’ve already waited too long on Swihart. His bat isn’t good enough if he can’t stick at catcher.
BadCo
Guy has been in the majors about a total year if that and you think they have given up on him? I guess JBJ should have been gone also … Really?
Priggs89
Unless they’re convinced he can stay at catcher (I’m not; idk if they are), he doesn’t have a lot of value…
pullhitter445
Swihart doesn’t get you much at all. He has yet to deliver much of anything at the show.
BadCo
Not so fast on Sweihart catching… Had problems with catching Wright… But so do have slot of others … Veritek couldn’t handle Wakefield remember
Bruin1012
I agree with you I think that everyone has underrated Swihart. I don’t think the Sox have I think they still think of him as a catcher and as someone who watched him a lot he has a sweet swing especially from the left side the Sox aren’t going to sell low on him especially with Vasquez struggling With the bat as much as he has and being sent down to AAA.
Strauss
White Sox can dump everybody! It won’t matter because they won’t win with the players, coaches, or front office they have now.
ringozappa
I don’t know why you include front office in there, that is the one thing that’s the same from 2005.
rickp
The white sox actually have a new head of scout and announced sometime back a change in philosophy in the past they’ve draft guys that had the body and speed as well as arm straight, the new system drafts players that do the fundamental things well, hitters put the ball in play ,hit it hard and use the whole field and pitchers that throw strikes this philosophy is used by the best teams in ball.
justinept
Amateur scouts and pro scouts are different departments. One scouts for the draft. The other scouts players already in pro baseball…
robb2103
This is why they never should have traded Espinoza for Pomeranz! Could have used him in a deal here
Kevin 23
Sale and Quintana both are going to take a hell of a lot more than Espinoza! IMHO Chicago has no plans to trade either of them and are just gauging interest in case they decide to blow the team up this off season and rebuild.
chieftoto
Moncada. Best prospect in baseball. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Giolito, Swanson, Urias, etc.
pullhitter445
Urias??? No my friend he is not.
Kevin 23
Giolito is the only better prospect and that is debatable. Moncada is hands down better than Urias and Swanson!
Bruin1012
Well not hands down and there is guy named Bregman in Houston that is pretty good.
BadCo
Hey chief that’s Baseball America rating on Mencada by the way
chieftoto
Baseball America also says Tyler Flowers is ATL’s catcher of the future. I stand with every guy and I’ll add Bregman to it.
KB R.
Wow. A lot of differing opinions here. I have no horse in this race, but if I had to pick one from the player you mentioned, Moncada is clearly the best one of the bunch. Moncada has played 165 total minor league games. Here are his stats he’s compiled in the minors in what is just about equivalent to 1 major league season.
623 ABs, 48 2B, 8 3B, 19 HR, 139 R, 92 RBI, 92 SB…… NINETY TWO!!!, 12 CS, 99 BB, 172 K, .292 BA, .399 OBP, .886 OPS
Dansby Swanson in 108 minor league games
420 AB, 30 2B, 7 3B, 9 HR, 74 R, 56 RBI, 10 SB, 3 CS, 56 BB, 81 K, .283 BA, .374 OBP, .826 OPS
Assuming he keeps up the same pace projecting these numbers over 623 ABs to compare him to Moncada is as follows
44-45 2B, 10 3B, 13 HR, 110 R, 83 RBI, 15 SB, 4-5 CS, 83 BB, 120 K, .283 BA, .374 OBP, .826 OPS
Not much worse, but offensively Moncada has the edge……. but then Moncada pretty much blows Dansby and just about every other prospect out there in the SB department. 92 for 104 in stolen base attempts in 165 games……. that’s just disgusting. Swanson might have the edge fielding-wise though, but IMO people nowadays blow defensive ability way out of proportion. Sure you’d prefer stellar defense everywhere, but if a player can hit I don’t think it is necessary as long as the guy isn’t completely defensively inept.
As for Giolito. Looking at his minor league numbers I don’t get what all the fuss is about. Sure he has solid numbers, but he walks a good amount of batters. Pitchers are also so damn hard to predict. Julio Urias…….. really? I think the Dodgers are ruining him right now by making him learn on the fly. He’s been very hittable since coming up, which isn’t surprising. He’s a boy facing men for hitters. His minor league numbers are better than Giolito’s though……. better than Giolito’s yet look at what he’s doing in MLB. 4.60+ ERA and a 1.50+ WHIP in 9 starts. This is why I say predicting pitching prospects is so hit and miss compared to position playing prospects.
There might be a better prospect out there than Moncada. But of the ones you listed…… no. Just – no.
bravesfan1234
I’m a Braves fan and as much as I love Swanson, I would still take Moncada and a hand full of others over him. Albies has also pretty thoroughly out-hit him this season and he’s only 19 in AA. Swanson is still adjusting to full season ball. He said so himself. He’s going to be very good though.
metseventually 2
Isn’t Moncada ranked No.1 right now in the midseason rankings…?
Bruin1012
All are good prospects but Moncada has as a high of upside as anyone I would say right now it’s Moncada and Bregman 1 and 2 you choose the order.
Bruin1012
Moncada is at least as high as everyone on your list.
DodgerBlueSince82
@KB
So just so I understand this correctly … Urias is not a top prospect because of his stats after only 9 Major League starts? That is absolutely absurd! He is still a teenager! Every MLB GM/Manager/Scout would laugh at that logic and love to have a pitcher like Urias in their organization.
Clayton Kershaw’s rookie stats at age 20:
GS-21, ERA-4.26, WHIP-1.495
In no way am I saying he’s going to end up like Kershaw. But to assume he’s not still a top prospect after less than 10 starts in the Majors is crazy
BadCo
I don’t see them moving Sale anyway….
Sasha C. Handelman
I’d agree with attempting to get Robertson that bullpen would be solid with Ziegler,Koji, Taz Kimbrel would be tough to beat!
My guess it’s take Devers/Light/Doubon
KB R.
Benintendi is a starting OFer for the WSox in 2017? How about prove a bit more in the minors first. Not exactly like he is tearing up double A right now. .277 BA, .342 OBP. I’m not saying Benintendi is a bum or anything, I’m just saying he needs more seasoning. At 21 years old and a noticeable dip in his stats once promoted to double A…….. I’d say he’s at LEAST 1 more full year away. Probably plays half the year in Double A next year and the second half in triple A. Then in 2018 I see him starting out in triple A and being called up sometime that season……… if he keeps up what he has done so far.
mookiessnarl
I used to think his timeline was longer too, but they started him in left field the other night at AA. He’ll be up by the end if the season.
justinept
Fans concentrate too much on minor league stats… Scouts and front office personnel care a lot more about process. Unless you’re watching the game, or reading the coaches reports, you won’t see that process for a minor league player.
davidcoonce74
A 342 OBP for a 21-year old in Double-A is actually pretty impressive.
Foreveryankees
You wouldn’t give a prospect for the best pitcher in baseball?
connorreed
Best pitcher in baseball!?!
Sale is the best in the American League. But Clayton Kershaw is laughing at your comment.
Not to mention at least eight other NL starters who might take offense to that comment as well (with their 2015 & 2016 stats combined):
Chris Sale – 3.32 ERA (3.11 FIP), 1.06 WHIP, 10.6 K/9
Jacob DeGrom – 2.49 ERA (2.84 FIP), 1.00 WHIP, 9.3 K/9
Max Scherzer – 2.85 ERA (3.04 FIP), 0.93 WHIP, 11.1 K/9
Jose Fernandez – 2.67 ERA (2.13 FIP), 1.07 WHIP, 12.5 K/9
Stephen Strasburg – 3.16 ERA (2.89 FIP), 1.06 WHIP, 11.0 K/9
Noah Syndergaard – 2.89 ERA (2.71 FIP), 1.07 WHIP, 10.4 K/9
Madison Bumgarner – 2.62 ERA (2.92 FIP), 1.01 WHIP, 9.8 K/9
Jake Arrieta – 2.06 ERA (2.55 FIP), 0.94 WHIP, 9.4 K/9
Zack Greinke – 2.30 ERA (3.00 FIP), 0.95 WHIP, 7.9 K/9
davidcoonce74
To be fair, connorreed, NL pitchers get to pitch to another pitcher 11 percent of the time.
Brixton
Suddenly Julio Teheran is the 3rd best pitcher possibly on the market.
TheGreatHambino
Even more reason ATL should hang on to him, barring another overpay trade in their favor. No need to trade him yet being under contract through 2019 with a team friendly option for 2020. He’s going to anchor this shaky rotation for the next few years while the prospects work their way up and adjust at the major league level.
Again, the only way I see him leaving this year is a Miller+ type haul, which is unlikely, or in another year or two if the prospects begin to figure it out. Even then, Teheran is at least a very solid #3 (lately #2), something contending teams often look for to stabilize the middle or backend of a rotation.
Thor
Heard Teheran going to Toronto for Stroman/Pentecost was a possibility
chieftoto
Hey Thor, leave the rumors to Beta Ray Bill.
houseoflords44
Why would Toronto do that deal? That makes no sense. They need to add another starter to their rotation, not trade one of their rotation pieces to get another. They already may be moving Sanchez to the bullpen. There’s no need to create another hole in the rotation.
bravesfan1234
It’s unlikely he’s getting dealt regardless of who’s on the market. Coppy has already fielded calls from around a dozen GM’s about Teheran and he turned down all offers. The price isn’t coming down.
BadCo
Just keep in mind that control able years figures into valu also
Priggs89
He only has 1 more year of control than Sale and the same amount as Quintana…
RunDMC
If I were a GM I’d target Quintana. All the GMs salivate over Sale and Braves are selling Teheran as an ace, but Quintana looks most legit as a top-of-the-rotation starter on the upswing. Doesn’t hurt he’s a southpaw and extremely affordable. He’s worth a top prospect or two.
Bob Smiley
most feel prospects are untouchable…we are talking about prospects. Winning the World Series is worth billions. Trade the prospects and get Sale etc….the Redsox, Astros, Dodgers and Nats have tons to give up….you guys can speculate on prospects all you want… winning is what should be important not what might be.
SabermetricsForLife
Bob – You are absolutely correct. As an Astros fan I would be willing to entertain most trade scenario’s to acquire one of the best pitchers in the game today and he is controllable through 2019. Obviously we don’t want to deplete the entire system, but it’s worth some prospect pain to acquire Sale.
lilojbone
I won’t mind Alex Bergman in a White Sox uniform
Priggs89
That makes 2 of us.
Philliesfan4life
forgot about the rangers
Bob Smiley
agreed. Rangers with Gallo and Profar but i dont think Sale and eaton are the answers to all the Rangers issues. Yu is broke. lol.
GeauxRangers
Yu is walking too many people because he is getting used to his new mechanics but he is certainly not “broke”. He was still hitting 98 and striking out 9 batters in 4 innings his last start
Overbrook
Profar (all hype, no production) and Gallo (30% K rate) don’t get Quintana, much less Sale.
CursedRangers
Profar is batting .300 while playing almost every position on the field. He has solid defense and was the #1 prospect in all of baseball just a couple years ago. He’s someone who could be an all-star for years. I agree it would take a ton more than Profar to get Sale but Profar is a very solid player
Overbrook
Sure he’s solid – solid isn’t a headliner for Sale. Plus, he has 3 years of control – he’s not a prospect. I’ m not sure that the Rangers have the elite prospects necessary to pull this off.
davidcoonce74
Jurickson Profar is 23 years old and is hitting 290/344/414 in the majors. After missing two seasons of development. He not only IS a prospect, he is an elite-level talent, especially when you factor in his fantastic defense at second. At his age, most players are barely sniffing double-A ball. Profar is outstanding.
CursedRangers
I’m a huge Rangers fan and I’d never thought I’d say this but Gallo and Profar can both go to Chicago for Sale.
rickp
You’ll need a lot more than those 2 to get Sale OR quintana
Kevin 23
Boston makes a ton of money no matter what and that is not going to change so I can’t see mortgaging the future for 15 months of Sale.
Priggs89
Sale is signed through the 2019 season…
Kevin 23
My mistake I forgot he has team options on his deal.
rickp
I’d say Boston is a win now team your losing your best player Ortiz to retirement , you go all out now.
Bruin1012
Not true on Boston there young core is as good as anybody’s they have a really good opportunity to win for quite a while with there solid young core. Losing Papi is going to hurt but they will probably be even better next year as there young core matures.
connorreed
Boston’s a win now team???
They have Pomeranz under team control for two seasons after 2016. Holt and Bogaerts for three. Bradley and Betts for four. Their other top players (Price, Kimbrel, Porcello, Pedroia) all have multiple years left on their contracts.
Plus two of the top prospects in the game (Benintendi and Moncada) nearly MLB ready.
Not to mention quite a bit of lower level minors depth a·vail·a·ble for potential trades (Kopech, Devers, Basabe, Chavis, Ball, Dubon, Traviis, etc.)
And on top of all that, the big market money to be aggressive in free agency.
Boston’s the furthest thing from a team in “win-now” mode.
Bob Smiley
give me Sale and Eaton…you can have who ever you want…Puig. Joc. De Leon. Urias. Calhoun. Giolito. Turner. Robles. Lopez. Bregman, Reed. Martes.
Brixton
That is how you end up with the 2012-2015 Phillies.
ringozappa
But if it gives you the 2007-2011 Phillies then it’s ok
stymeedone
And, I believe a World Series trophy. The mistake was in extending too many of those Champions.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
If the Sox are giving up Sale and Eaton to the Dodgers, you can bet their return package would have to start with Seager.
therealryan
That’s a hell of a four-way deal, but sure, I’ll take all of those.
Bob Smiley
not saying a 4 way deal, but prospects would not keep me from a chance at the title and the amount of money that it would bring.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
As a Sox fan, I’d love to see them trade as many people as possible except for Anderson, Fulmer, and Rodon, and then only because they’d be selling low. The trades of Sale, Quintana, and Eaton could restock their farm with top-level talent. They need to rebuild and take a risk on prospects / picks.
adyo4552
I haven’t said this sentence in years but I don’t think the Red Sox need another starter.
Price, Wright (1st in ERA), Porcello (16th in AL ERA) and Pomeranz (2.47 ERA and 1.06 WHIP) are all in the good-to-great category (for now).
Sure they have their risks, like the knuckler just stops working, or Porcello reverts to his last season form, or Pomeranz’s arm falls off. But unless the Sox actually picked up a clear-cut dominant starter like a Sale or a Quintana, the 4-man rotation for the playoffs is already set.
jakesaub
I actually agree with this as a Sox fan. Dombrowski has done an admirable job of filling the holes on this roster. The only glaring area of concern that I see is the bullpen, but that’s relatively short term because once Kimbrel and Koji rejoin in late August, it’ll be back to full strength.
Brixton
I think they need to add another starter just to keep pace in the division. Plus if you have 1 bad injury to one of those four, you looking at what.. Owens/Kelly starting a playoff game?
Not saying they need Sale/Quintana/Teheran, but they need some help.
Philliesfan4life
Sale would be a perfect fit for the red sox but I don’t think they would sell the farm for him. Maybe they go after Teheran.
Bruin1012
They aren’t going after Teheran.
coo coo
Sale would be perfect for any team
stymeedone
Sure, they are
chieftoto
Braves would make BOS sell the farm faster than Chicago.
jakesaub
I think Eduardo Rodriguez would be the next in line to start a playoff game. There’s a lot of risk to that, given he’s been pretty dreadful, but his last start was encouraging. We’ll have to see how his game plays out near the deadline, or maybe the Sox go out and get a veteran #5 starter like a Niese.
Bruin1012
I think the Sox can win the division without adding anyone else but adding Sale would have to make them World Series favorites. That can also be said about Texas probably Houston the Dodgers if Kershaw gets healthy the Cubs I’m sure I’m missing someone. That’s the kind of difference his guy can make.
Kevin 23
Keep pace in the division? Who has a better staff than Boston? Rodriquez would be the #4 starter in case of injury,
mookiessnarl
Please DD, no more. No way a Sale deal gets done without three of Moncada, Benintendi, Devers and Kopech and probably two more mid level guys. Not interested in going from a top five farm to a bottom five in the span of less than a year. Develop your own talent. Trading it all away to get already developed talent is a never ending cycle.
jakesaub
Agreed — there’s no better value than a homegrown star, and it looks like there could be a couple in our farm.
stymeedone
I keep forgetting how having the best rated farm system trumps a World Series trophy. If only the Red Sox became sellers! Just think of the prospects they could get for Papi!!!
mookiessnarl
I don’t recall anyone saying that. But no one will argue you need a pipeline of fresh young talent feeding into the majors to have sustained success. The Red Sox won a World Series in 2013 and then proceeded to finish in last place for the two following years. You supplement your team with trades. You don’t trade away the entire farm to win a championship. Otherwise you get the one and that’s it. With a reasonable pipeline you can build long term success.
kenny217
Even trading for Sale there’s as much if a guarantee the Sox win the WS as Moncada becoming the next Trout.
Brixton
If your gonna count Detriot, gotta count Philly too
connorreed
Yeah, the Mets should have just traded away Flores, Syndergaard, Wheeler, Matz, Familia, d’Arnaud, DeGrom, Rosario, Lagares, Verrett, and Herrera back in 2013/2014 when they were all just sitting in the minors and they were flirting with the .500 mark.
pullhitter445
DD is known for selling the farm
ccdominate
Sale and Duke for Soler, Hammel, Torres, Mckinney, Candelario and Hannemann
Sam.rhodes16
Not close imo
kevb2016
I’d like to see Sale with the Cubs too, heck all 29 other teams want him, but that package wouldn’t land Sale. We don’t live in the George Bell for Sammy Sosa era anymore.
Kayrall
Take out Hammel and add Jimenez and probably.
babybears
Torres top prospect
Candelario nearly mlb ready good hitter
Cease power arm. Cubs prized pitching prospect
Underwood top 3 pitching prospect in cub system
Martinez one of the top international signings for outfield last year
Zuganis nearly mlb ready good hitter and corner outfielder with catching experience
For sale and Eaton
chieftoto
A description of each player does not make the deal any more conceivable. Chris sale is a top 5 best pitchers in baseball and has been for 3,4,5 years. Honestly, I don’t see any deal Chicago could put together that would be good for both teams.
HalosFan
Don’t need eaton on the north side really. Eaton’s a meh CF and an above average RF. Fowler and Almora have that on lockdown and JHey is a better RF.
Cubs send: Torres – Jimenez – Happ – and an arm to take Sales spot. Maybe a little on the low side but those three immediately become the top 3 in the sox farm.
Sam.rhodes16
Sale deal for CHI Cubs starts with Baez and Jimenez imo
ChrisEnvy76
“Honestly, I don’t see any deal Chicago could put together that would be good for both teams.”
That’s ridiculous. Sale would greatly improve our rotation with the Cubs and If the Cubs decided to go for it, there is no reason they couldn’t come up with a package that makes sense for both sides. Look at the package I put together below. Baez is the real deal and he is rapidly improving, he is outstanding defensively and with enough time he will be outstanding offensively. You could add Soler to that package too.. If those guys were still prospects, they’d be ranking higher than anything Boston could put together. Don’t forget, the Cubs also have Schwarber.. It would be an overpay on the Cubs part, but are you telling me a package of Schwarber, Soler and Baez doesn’t get the Sale trade done?
Bruin1012
Actually totally agree on this the White Sox will want something like Mookie+ and that is not going to happen. SO unless some team blinks and offers a crazy deal I think they are just posturing and seeing what he is worth on the market.
Priggs89
Well I’d rather have that than Profar/Gallo. That being said, I wouldn’t really want either of those packages for Sale.
chieftoto
Yes that’s exactly what I’m telling you.
pullhitter445
Cubs pitching prospects are as good as the white sox hitting prospects.
Bruin1012
Actually that’s not true about anything Boston could put together.
rickp
It would take Torres and Biaz to start the conversation, prospects are just that prospects, best pitcher in baseball not named Kershaw ,your offer wouldn’t even be considered.
justinept
Almora. Soler. Happ. Torres. Candalario. Underwood…
You can look them up if you want. But the sox would be out of their mind to turn down that offer. V
connorreed
I would absolutely not do this trade if I were the White Sox. When you’re talking about a player like Sale, you need, at minimum, at least two either highest tier prospects (Moncada, Urias, Turner, Gallo, Robles) or young, team controlled, established big leaguers (Profar, Seager, Odor, Contreras).
This trade has NONE of those. The White Sox would have very little interest in four of those guys (Almora, Soler, Underwood, Candalario):
In their mid-season prospect report, Baseball America called Candalario “more of a second-division regular than a true star”. Meaning he’s likely to be a slightly below average regular.
Soler had a great debut season, but last year was mediocore (.262/.324/.399), and this year is pretty awful (..223/.322/.377). He’s a liability in the field, too. Over 161 games since the start of 2015, he’s been worth a net value of -0.1 WAR. Not to mention his injury problems.
Underwood has not been good at AA this year (4.91 ERA, 1.65 WHIP, 1.48 K/BB) and his stock has dropped significantly. He’s got a ton of health questions as well.
Almora doesn’t have much of a ceiling. He’s a polished player. He makes good contact and is a plus defender. But he lacks speed on the bases. He likely will never be a threat for a batting title. He rarely walks. And he’ll be a stretch for double digit home runs even in his prime.
_____________________________________________
That leaves Happ and Torres as the only significant pieces of that group. And even then, you’re not getting much.
Happ won’t be a star. He’s got an upside of a solid regular with good versatility – maybe along the lines of Ben Zobrist or Brock Holt.
Torres is the only one here that has potential to be a star. But still, he’s not top tier. He strikes out a lot and his power has yet to really show in games. There’s a good possibility he’s moved from short, which would decrease his value significantly. Plus he’s still a teenager – huge risk.
chicubbies85
Sale and eaton for soler.. Baez mckinney…candelario..hanneman
impaler
If the Cubs want Sale it will cost you dearly. Starting with Schwarber and Contreras, adding maybe Baez and your top pitching prospect.
Gerry G
Dream on not even close
beyou02215
Not close. Sale would cost a lot lot more.
Priggs89
Lol no. I wouldn’t even trade Quintana for that.
ChrisEnvy76
Sale and Robertson for Baez, Jimenez, McKinney, Almora and Underwood.
Overbrook
Hammel – as in jason Hammel? Get serious..
chieftoto
Yo shock top, starting to sound like braves and Red Sox fans. Why don’t you come over to San Diego side…
pullhitter445
Ccdominate I’ll take whatever your smoking….pack it up
rickp
Your dreaming,not even close
connorreed
If the Cubs want Sale it’s going to be a huge package.
#1 – For one, I think if a deal is made, Schwarber is without a doubt included. He’s far more valuable in th NL than the AL.
#2 – Next, they’re going to want another major league ready player. That’s going to be Jorge Soler or Javier Baez. Although in all honesty, I wouldn’t be completely shocked to see Addison Russell or Willson Contreras go either if a deal is made.
#3/#4 – ChiSox are still going to want at least one (probably two) of their three Top 100 level prospects – Torres, Happ, or Jimenez. The only way I see the Cubbies only giving up one of them is if they include Russell or Contreras.
#5/#6 – Two more high-level prospects. Probably out of Cease, De La Cruz, Underwood, Martinez, or Zagunis.
And honestly, that might not even be enough. Chris Sale is immensely valuable, and as of right now, I don’t see the White Sox moving him unless they get a package that makes them a clear winner.
Yaz-8
I would have traded Jim Rice though if it meant winning the ’75 or ’86 World Series.
Ravens_Last_Place
The White Sox overvalue their players so much. I’d laugh and then hang up when they speak their nonsense.
guinnesspelican
Cardinals give up Carlos Martinez, Kolten Wong and Matt Adams for Sale. Adding Reyes gets it done for sure.
We get our “better than Chris Carpenter” finally back and everyone is happy.
stl_cards16 2
I was speculating with a friend something like Wacha, Wong, Reyes, Bader, Sosa.
That may not be enough, though.
Sam.rhodes16
I just don’t think is. They’d ask for piscotty and Reyes to start imo
guinnesspelican
I think we force Carpenter out of retirement, hold him hostage, and have him carry us into the playoffs.
Okay, the hostage thing might be a little excessive.
rickp
Lol,your dreaming that’s not even close.
TennVol
Couple of trade possibilities:
Sale to the Red Sox for Moncada, Benitendi, Kopech
Quintana to the Nationals for Giolito, Turner, and Taylor
What do you think?
dresman92
I would say yes on the Red Sox offer. I know White Sox are high on Moncada.
Brixton
Honestly, I think both are close, but somewhat light. Maybe another decent B guy on each side.
Brixton
At this moment I realize that Nats trade said Quintana, not Sale, so I think thats maybe a little much just because of Giolito, but thats probably around what’d it look like
Cubs_Fan31
In a White Sox fan’s wet dream maybe. Quintana is not worth Giolito, Turner and Taylor. That is just nonsense. I can’t see BoSox packaging Moncada and Benintendi either. I think they should take Schwarber for Sale and be done with it while we are throwing out unrealistic scenarios.
impaler
Schwarber for Sale straight up???? LOL!
Stop sniffing the Wrigley Field paint.
Bruin1012
OMG you can’t be serious Shwarber straight up for Sale cmon man are you trollin or just clueless?
HalosFan
Can either of you two read? Did you get the unrealistic aspect of the statment?
Cubs_Fan31
Thank you HalosFan for reading the actual post. I like how people got all worked up over “unrealistic scenarios”
Bob Smiley
Remember when the Nats thru away the chance of the playoffs and world series to save Stras arm? no way i miss out on Sale for some prospects and wish i had made the move a year or 2 later. WIN!
Bruin1012
I don’t know if you are DD you have to at least kick the tires on this one. I mean with the Red Sox lineup, arguably the best in baseball, and the addition of Sale wow that would be a juggernaught team. It would be incredibly expensive and destroy the Farm system but think of a rotation of Sale, Price, Wright, Porcello and Pomeranz it would be crazy with that offense.
Mbolled
Who is the competition for Sale that needs pitching. Toronto or Baltimore don’t have the big prospects. Dodgers could do it, but haven’t seen Andrew Friedman make a prospect trade yet, still run like Tampa, Yankees are still waiting to pounce after next year when all bad contracts are up and won’t give up there too prospects. Houston could do it, Cubs as well, and Red Sox, how many other teams are really in it. That is why you wait till offseason when all 30 teams feel they can make an offseason move. Dombrowski knows what he is doing. Name a trade he was absolutely burnt on and wrong. Trading Randy Johnson while in Montreal. If the price is right, he will pay the price, cares less about talk radio or fans on message boards. He will do what is best for the long term health of the team.
Phil Merkel
Why do you not mention Rangers??? Good grief!! They only have two starters, one of which is still working on getting back in shape after TJS. With Gallo and Profar, I would think they are in the mix.
Bruin1012
If Sale is truly available then I am sure they are in the mix they could put together a nice package of cost controlled players.
Bruin1012
Texas
cubsfan24
Please let the Cubs be in on Sale. I say sell the farm for him. The major league roster is full of young talent controlled over the next handful of years. Give the sox what they want. Gotta go get this guy. Soler, Hammel, Torres, Happ, McKinney, Underwood, Candelario, who ever they want. Sale is exactly what the Cubs need
Bruin1012
Sale is what every contender needs.
stymeedone
He’s an Ace on a team friendly contract. You don’t have to be a contender, every team needs that.
Bruin1012
Yes but he is a difference maker for a contender.
chicubbies85
Sale and eaton for soler.. Baez mckinney…candelario…hanneman. Sox get a young OF.. A young SS/3b/2nd (I believe we can trade him because of Torres and happ) another good young of in McKinney a 3b in candelario and another of prospect in hanneman.. fair?
cubsfan24
Honestly I don’t think that’s enough to get Sale alone. It’s going to cost alot, I’m thinking Schwarber, Soler, Happ, McKinney, Candelario, Underwood, and Pierce Johnson. I would absolutely hate losing Schwarber and Happ especially but it would be worth it. I don’t pretend to know what the exact cost would be but its a start I guess. A playoff rotation of Sale, Jake, Lester, and Hendricks or Lackey would look mighty fine with the offense the Cubs have. And everyone would still be under control for the next 2-3 years, except Jake who I think would possibly become trade bait before contract time. Cubs need to do this
stl_cards16 2
Smart man. Adding Sale without subtracting a major piece already contributing puts the Cubs as hands down World Series favorites for the next 4 years.
As a baseball fan, the Cubs need to make this happen at any cost(as long as it’s prospect driven). As a Cardinals fan, oh man would that ever hurt.
Priggs89
After all their promotions to the bigs, the Cubs no longer have the prospects to make a completely prospect-driven package IMO. They’d have to subtract from the big club if they wanted to get something done. That being said, they have enough depth/prospects to get rid of guys that they probably wouldn’t end up missing.
cubsfan24
Cards16 You guys can give us the next 4 years considering we’ve given you the last 100 or so lol
cubsfan24
Agreed. That’s why I think Schwarber and Soler start the deal with prospects added in. I think it could be a win win trade. All the pieces the sox would get would still all be young controllable players, perfect for a rebuild. Schwarber has only played in the bigs for under half a season. If he were still considered a prospect he would be at or very near the top of the top 100. Soler too. Plus they have a few top 50 guys now. And the Cubs get the young stud pitcher that they covet
connorreed
Absolutely no chance.
Only significant player in that group is Baez. And even with the marginal value the others add, it’s not even going to be close to what the White Sox would want.
According to Baseball America, Billy McKinney “has added some bad weight and slowed down in terms of speed and bat speed…appears to lack impact potential at the plate”.
They also say Jeimer Candelario “may be more of a second-division regular than a true star”
Soler was, at best, mediocore last year and is now is simply putting up awful numbers for a corner outfielder (.223/.322/.377). He’s also a huge liability in the field. In 151 games since the 2015 season started, he’s amassed a negative WAR value. And if he doesn’t end up being a major league quality player, he’s still owed $20 million on his contract after this season. And if he does improve, he’s able to opt out of that contract and enter into arbitration when eligible, so it’s not that team friendly of a deal. All this ignoring the fact that he’s also an injury risk.
Jacob Hannemann is hardly a prospect. He nearly dropped out of the Cubs Top 30 before this season. He’s back in AA for the second straight year as a 25 year old, and is slashing .247/.326/.426. Best case scenario is a decent fourth outfielder.
kevb2016
He could be what they need to put them over the top, but to sell the farm, no can’t happen. You gotta look down the road as well. Cubs really don’t have any minor league pitchers that will be ready in a year or two, likely that Arrieta is gone, and 4 or 5 years down the road do you think the Cubs will be able to resign all they have on the MLB roster now. That all being said I think they could put a good package together.
cubsfan24
Yes Sale is what every team needs. And don’t get me wrong there isn’t many players in all of baseball that I would want to mortgage the farm for but Sale is one that I would. These types of pitchers don’t come around often, 27 year old legitimate ace under control for pretty cheap. I love what the Cubs have built over the last few years but you get Sale and you go from a solid contender to probably a overall favorite right away. Plus even after the trade the cupboard wouldn’t be totally barren. There would still be some nice pieces left and the pro team is young enough and will be together long enough to still be able to rebuild the farm up. Plus if they get Sale, they could really consider trading Arrieta before he becomes way too expensive. Trading him alone would help rebuild what we would lose in the trade. I think something like this is exactly what Jed and Theo have been waiting for
bmcc5411
I think you make some good points but this is not the way theo works. He has consistently not traded prospects for the top tier players on the market. When people think Chapman and Miller, theo thinks Montgomery. It’s religious with him and that’s worked great for him so far because of the way his offices draft so well. Either way, I absolutely don’t want the Cubs to miss this opportunity, if there’s a time to go back on a philosophy that’s worked over and over again this is it. Getting a guy like sale is a once every 10 years opportunity. Give anyone up value-wise south of schwarber and I really would be fine giving up schwarber it’s just not ideal. That means Baez Torres Almora whoever. And all that being said I think as of this moment contreras is more valuable than schwarber just based on schwarber not being healthy and contreras actually not looking bad at an ultra-premium position like catcher. Selling a guy like sale means the sox get to pick the players they like and dislike, but my thoughts are basically that giving up Baez Almora candelario, maybe Jimenez and (everyone wants a pitching prospect, great or not, when trading a pitcher to another team) so probably Duane underwood or someone would be a win for the Cubs. A win for the sox would probably be getting schwarber, Torres, and probably candelario and mckinney with underwood or cease. I just hope theo decides to take a risk here and go for it all
cubsfan24
That’s what I’m saying. Theo absolutely will not jump at most big name guys and spend up what he has built talent wise with the Cubs. I believe he is building this team for present and future success. I don’t see him paying the high costs for Teheran, Archer, Miller ect. But Sale is different. 27 year old top 5 pitcher in all of baseball. All that talk about Schwarber for relievers garbage, if you are going to trade someone like Schwarber this is the type of deal you do it in. And while the price would be astronomical it wouldn’t cripple the organization. The pro team is set at almost every position for years to come. I’m ok with giving up Schwarber, Soler, Happ, McKinney, Candelario, ect because this team will be fine without them and I believe that Theo can replace what they would lose in the trade. For the sox it’s a huge jump start for a rebuild. They already have a few good young pitchers with Fulmer, Rodon, and Adams. Getting 3-4 offensive players that will start next season and more to follow over the next year or so for your team is huge for a rebuilding team. These opportunities don’t pop up much and when they do its a game changer and you have to go for it
lilojbone
It will take a lot of salt for me to swallow the Sox trading Sale to the Cubs but it may be easier to swallow I’d we get the jabroni Byrant
lilojbone
It will take a lot of salt for me to swallow the Sox trading Sale to the Cubs but it may be easier to swallow if we get the jabroni Byrant
Kayrall
Bryant is more valuable than Sale.
cubsfan24
The Cubs can make a package for Sale and can assure you Kris Bryant will not be a part of it
Priggs89
I think/hope he was joking about Bryant. That being said, I can assure you Jerry won’t be allowing a trade of Chris Sale to the North side unless he can make it hurt in terms of what they give up (aka major league contributors). That’s just how he operates.
cubsfan24
Jerry definitely won’t make this easy. But if something does come out of this then I imagine he will be pretty excited about the haul he would be bringing in
Priggs89
I’m sure he would be thrilled because it’d most likely be a MASSIVE overpay, which is why I highly doubt it happens.
cubsfan24
Yeah I know it would be an overpay and it is unlikely to happen. But when a true ace is made available, as a GM, if you’re not looking to overpay in that situation you’re not trying to win. There is really only a handful of players in all of baseball I would really jump for and Sale is certainly one of them
jbravo17
This is the classic Dombrowski trap, distracting fans with celebrity acquisitions that must return immediate value before a long downturn with no developmental reprieve in sight.
Top tier trade acquisitions are overkill for teams like Boston, a buyer team in a seller’s market, already positioned to make the playoffs and potentially win the division – there’s very little immediate value that mega-deals could return to offset the long-term damages.
His acquisition of David Price with the Detroit Tigers is a perfect example, Dombrowski kills roster and farm depth to mask the existing issues plaguing a team by mortgaging the future. Trading valuable depth for post-peak, expensive players is not how the game works anymore.
stymeedone
Yes, all us Detroit fans have complained about how we could still have Drew Smiley. Oh, he’s been injured and hasn’t really recovered? And then Price was traded for 3 pitching prospects? Guess the Future didn’t get mortgaged!
Mbolled
Name one deal where dombrowski ever traded a prospect or a player who truly was regrettable. I took a look and its Randy Johnson in Montreal. He has no Jeff bag well for Larry Anderson and learns his farm system well. Finds out value and spends when it’s high..Miguel Cabrera for Andrew Miller and junk. Runs teams very well, Montreal, Miami, Detroit, and now trying in one season to turn Boston from 2 last place finishes to a 1st place team. Everyone needs to relax.
Bruin1012
I agree DD has been a very good talent evaluator on trades. He hasn’t had the farm system that Boston has in the past but history says if he trades them He usually gets the better end of the deal.
Mbolled
He sees prospects as pieces, he has already 4 Allstars, 2 starters, who don’t even make a million dollars yet. Moncada and benintendi and swihart may very well be in starting lineup in 2017. He sees that you can sleet spend $217 million on pitchers all the time, free agency for pitchers is awful this yr, and sees that his pitching prospects are all years away. Just signed Groome, their international penalty end this year and can spend next June. He fixed the bench, has best offense in baseball and will have kimbrel, Koji, swihart, young, all coming back which will act as a trade. All this and still have won 11 of last 12
BadCo
Chil-ax
cbf82
The Rangers need to seriously try and make this happen!! Profar, Gallo, whoever.. A top 3 of Cole Hamels, Chris sale and Yu Darvish in a playoff matchup wow!!!
Phil Merkel
Totally agree…plus even if they throw in more pieces, they have plenty of good prospects down on the farm!
padnastikador
Rangers offer Gallo, Profar, Brinson, and 2 of Ortiz/Tate/Mendez. I’d hope that’d be enough, but if not, add either Tavares or Yrizarri. That’s a lot to give up, but with Cordell and Guzman in AA, and the Rangers only having Darvish through next season, gotta do it! Two playoff runs with Sale, Darvish, and Hamels would be their best shot at a World Series Championship.
cbf82
Agreed 100%. Get CWS to throw in a reliever or 2 with that deal and i would do it. Its a lot to give up like you said but we gotta take the shot while the window is open! Plus the shot in the arm it would give the team right now as theyre struggling would be huge!!
padnastikador
I agree on the reliever. Nate Jones should be the target. I’m sure they’d counter with Zach Duke. Texas might have to throw in LeClerc to get Jones, but that would be okay in my opinion.
CursedRangers
If the Rangers trade Profar (which they would have to do in order to land Sale) I think they will need offense. With Fielder out and Profar gone 1B and DH are extremely weak for the Rangers. Obviously would rather have Sale, but part of me wonders if they need a reliever since they have so many coming back from the DL soon.
gammaraze
Only one thing to do, well two… either trade for a hitter… or bring up Joey Gallo and hope for the best… if he’s still with the team.
Brixton
I think one misconception is that the White Sox would want just prospects. I would tend to believe that they would want a good young MLB player along with all those prospects.
When I say good young player, I don’t mean Michael Taylor, Black Swihart or Jake Marisnick either. I’d think guys like Pederson/Urias, JBJ/Betts/Bogaerts… and Joe Ross? I don’t know what else the Nats have thats young, appealing and available.
Bruin1012
The problem with that is, from a Red Sox prospective, that would be more of a one for one trade there isn’t any excess value of Sale for say Betts it would almost have to be a 1 for 1 trade. If they trade Sale they will be punting and admitting a full rebuild. They will want 4 or 5 guys for him is my guess.
Brixton
I think Sale would command Betts and then some, if Betts was on the table.
Bruin1012
I am fairly certain that would not happen the Sox are not trading Betts He has more control and he is already a borderline superstar potential 30-30 guy this year. Sale is very valuable but so is Betts. They will not trade Betts for much more than a 1 for 1 trade maybe a low level lottery ticket with him. No I think they would be looking for High Ceiling young prospects that they could build around probably 4 or 5 of them.
Brixton
Thats reasonable, but you can’t trade your big guys away without getting something good to put on the big league roster or you end up with the Braves. I was just spitballing Betts’ name.
Bruin1012
I get it and I understand why you say that but their value is just to close and the Sox would significantly weaken there offense without Mookie. This is why I dont think there will be a trade. I’ guessing the conversation went something like this DD we are willing to gut our farm system for Sale what do you want? White Sox we want to start with Betts and before they could finish DD said no deal and hung up.
stl_cards16 2
Is this Kenny Williams? Seriously, I love Sale, but he’s not worth Betts alone.
Brixton
Are you joking?….
Kayrall
@stl_cards16 This. And on top of that, a contending team isn’t going to create a hole to fill another.
natesp4
If they are willing to trade their franchise cornerstones then that sends them into full rebuild. I’d think they would be willing to go prospects heavy to get a king’s ransom.
Using Dave Cameron’s trade value piece as a rough estimate (obviously not perfect but gives some context), the white sox would only net one of JBJ/Betts/Bogaerts straight up for Sale and in the case of Betts they would have to give up even more. Requiring MLB talent gives them considerably less chance at pulling off a successful rebuild.
(Whether or not GMs at all agree with Cameron’s list is another debate)
Bruin1012
totally agree with this
Eric D.
Sale is one of few players I would be willing to trade both Moncada and Benintendi for. He would turn Boston into instant World Series favorites.
Voice of Reason
The white sox would be nuts to trade sale and Quintana now.
This offseason is when you do it.
Trade the Fraziers and Robersons now
Brixton
Do all of it. The price for pitching is crazy high right now. They should move Frazier/Duke now, then Quintana if you can. Make someone wildly overpay for Quintana.
impaler
Exactly the market could not be better.
impaler
actually the market could not be better then right now. With so many teams in line for a playoff run and some of those with top talent in the minors. Could be a big trade coming. With lots of highly prized assets coming to the southside.
Zca
I agree with this. Especially since the starting FA this year is weak.
eedwards027
Package built around Tyler Glasnow and Austin Meadows for Chris Sale. Get it done NH
Bruin1012
I think a lot of teams will beat that offer.
JZ23
Ok now just here me out, Seattle is going to get Sale, they are going to pretty much trade all of there top prospects including Vogolbach but Lewis, but they are going to make it happen, because while they are nearly depleting the farm system they are getting the ace that they need.
lazorko
This public service message on Not Over-Valuing Prospects is brought to you by this Angels fan and the LA Times.
From the July 27, 2004 LA Times, by Mike DiGiovanna:
“Arizona is thought to want at least two of the Angels’ top four prospects — third baseman Dallas McPherson, catcher Jeff Mathis, first baseman Casey Kotchman and pitcher Ervin Santana — for [Randy] Johnson.
“Moreno […] intimated that such a price might be too high”
Brixton
Then there is the time the Phillies gave up Ryne Sandberg for nothing when he was a prospect, or the time the Rangers got part of their core for back-to-back WS runs for a year of Mark Texiera,
My personal favorite of all.
The time the Royals traded Zack Grienke for Lorenzo Cain, Alcides Escobar, Jeremy Jeffress, and Jake Odorizzi
Thor
How much would Sox want for Duke as Jays need a strong lefty
impaler
BTW my inner arm chair GM is going bonkers right now with the possibilities.
Brixton
Gallo, Brinson, Dillon Tate, DeShields and Ryan Cordell for Sale? 3 MLB ready pieces along with your top prospects.
stymeedone
It’s never going to happen. The White Sox can’t afford to completely scrap their team while the Cubs are doing what they are doing. They have been second citizen in that town while being better than the Cubs. Bad timing for a complete rebuild.
Niekro
What will happen they will fall from 26th in attendance to 30th? No one is paying to see the team as is.
fmfish12
Question: Does Drew Pomeranz have trade value? If so, could the combination of him, Devers, Swihart, Owens, and Kopech get you Sale, Quintana, or Robertson? My opinion, that’s a fair trade.
fmfish12
*and Robertson; all three of Sale, Quintana and Robertson
Brixton
Not even close.
Bruin1012
No not even enough for Sale and I am Red Sox fan and would trade that for Sale in a heartbeat. I am also higher on Swihart then most and think he will still be a catcher.
beyou02215
I don’t think that is even close, especially for all 3. It might take a package like that to get just Quintana, and still, I think the Sox would need to include Moncada or Benintendi if they were to acquire him.
braves4life1
Mets go get Todd Frazier and Robertson
Red Sox: Stay put
Rangers: Got get Sale
salpalermo
Rangers do have a shot at getting Sale, but Chicago want a catcher, Texas doesn’t have a good catcher, I’d say the yanks get him for top prospects INF Mateo and Catcher Sanchez and Closer Chapman
CursedRangers
Why would the White Sox want Chapman for 1/2 a season if they are trading their ace?
Phil Merkel
Based on latest, maybe Rangers are seriously looking to getting Sale. Don’t doubt JD…
salpalermo
yankees should make an offer for Sale, they should add Sale for Top prospect
catcher Gary Sanchez, another top prospect ss Jorge Mateo, And Closer Aroldis Chapman and another prospect
Niekro
Chapman isn’t much use to the White Sox if they are trading Sale
coo coo
That would be a good deal. The doc could flip chapman for a good prospect or two. Nice deal
coo coo
Sox
Bruin1012
Other teams would easily beat that offer.
salpalermo
Yanks should get him for top prospects Mateo and Sanchez, and Chapman
bravesfan1234
I don’t even think Texas has enough to get Sale. Houston and Boston would be in a better position to offer elite prospects if they were so inclined. LA also has the talent pull off such a trade. If I was the WS I wouldn’t be too crazy about Profar and Gallo.
cbf82
What are you talking about? Texas has one of the best if not the best farm systems in baseball! Its not a question of if they can afford it, its a question of if the white sox are really serious about trading Sale.
TwinsVet
Farm systems are pretty irrelevant to this discussion. Prospects alone do not get a deal done for Sale. MLB-level talent is the starting point for the framework of any potential conversation.
cbf82
Profar is not only playing at the big league level but he is producing! Mazara is another that has been at the big league level and has produced. Gallo was up last year and showed that monster power. Rangers have plenty of talent at the major and minor league levels. The idea that they wouldnt have enough to afford Sale is ridiculous
Priggs89
Lol Joey Gallo also struck out over 50% of the time. Profar and Mazara have combined for 1 WAR this year. I’d take any/all of them, but not for Chris Sale. The Sox could do better.
Brixton
Your not paying for current production. Profar and Maraza will get better, and Gallo might always strike out 30% of the time, but if he hits 40 HRs while doing it, thats fine.
Thats what you do for prospects.
Are you going to reject Julio Urias because hes negative WAR?
Priggs89
That’s not the point
Using Urias as the example, I would absolutely take him. At the same time, I wouldn’t claim “he’s producing!” and use last year as an example when it might have been one of the worst extended performances we’ve seen from a rookie (talking about Gallo).
Like I said, I’d take any/all of them, but not for Chris Sale. There is WAY too much bust potential in that package.
Phil Merkel
If CWS are willing to give up Sale and who knows who else, they need prospects because they would b rebuilding.
Phil Merkel
You obviously know nothing about the Rangers farm system. Sounds like you don’t know much about Gallo or Profar either.
bravesfan1234
Ok, then. Enlighten me. Who in the Rangers system would be better than a package centered around Bregman/Moncada/Urias? Gallo and Profar are ridiculously overrated. I wouldn’t even want them for a package for Teheran. Don’t shoot the messenger. I just don’t think you match up well with the CWS because too many other teams can beat what you offer. I don’t have anything against Texas and I’m a relatively neutral observer.
beyou02215
I highly doubt that either Sale or Quintana are going anywhere, unless the WS get overwhelmed…and by overwhelmed, I mean the Shelby Miller – Arizona/Atlanta deal on steroids, and those steroids would even have to be on steriods. I don’t think Texas has enough unless they include Profar…and they still might not have enough for Sale. The Red Sox do, but it would likely take Moncada AND Benintendi and others IMO. Forget Swihart as a headliner. The Cubs? Maybe, but I don’t think they have the horses to pull it off in their MiLB system. It would take far, far more than Schwarber. The Nats could maybe…maybe pull it off. But you’d be talking Giolito, Turner, Robles + + +. The Astros? The WS would need Bregman and a whole lot more. Probably not enough in their system unless they include MLB-achieved talent.
Priggs89
Honestly, Texas is the last contender I’d want to sell Sale or Q to. Profar and Gallo are too far away from being sure fire studs IMO. Too much bust potential in a package like that. If they aren’t getting a young stud off an MLB roster, they need the headliner prospect to be very close to a sure thing (like a Moncada/Bregman). Not sold on what Texas has to offer.
TwinsVet
We agree in concept that a Sale or Q should command an MLB-proven asset – sounds like we have opposite assessments as to whether Profrar/Gallo or Moncada/Bregman fit that profile, though.
Priggs89
I’m sure a lot of people would disagree, but I don’t love their farm. Profar is a ways removed from being the top prospect in baseball, and he hasn’t done much since then (injuries included). I don’t think his bat is good enough to ever put him on a “star” level, which is the type of potential the Sox need to be looking for in one of these deals. Gallo’s bat can definitely get him there, but he’s sooooo far away from being a sure thing IMO. He’s got a big hole in his swing that I don’t see him closing. I highly disagree with his #7 in baseball prospect ranking. Maybe if we are talking just about skills alone, but when you factor in bust potential (his is high), I don’t think he should be even close to there.
TwinsVet
I’m open to the possibility that I’m wrong in thinking Profar/Gallo have a higher floor than Mancado/Bregman.
Priggs89
Obviously we won’t know anything for sure for a while still, but I strongly disagree with that. I believe that Moncada/Bregman have both higher floors AND ceilings than Profar, and they both have much higher floors than Gallo IMO (ceiling is arguable when you factor in position, but he does have epic power).
Bruin1012
As i have stated earlier doubt he moves if the White Sox want someone like Betts or Boegarts its not gonna happen. If they sell they are in full rebuild mode and they will want more than just a 1 for 1 trade like that would be.
bravesfan1234
Yeah, that’s exactly what I’m thinking. If I was offering Sale I would at least want somebody like Bregman/Moncada/Urias in return. Profar has a poor injury history and only three years of control left. Gallo has a lot of swing and miss in his game. I wouldn’t like them as centerpieces for Sale if I was the WS.
Niekro
Moncada isnt exactly Ted Williams with strikeouts either I think people forget Gallo is 22.
hammertime510
Sale is going to bring in a ton of prospects, I can imagine the white sox packaging him and Frazier to the Rangers for Gallo, Deshields, Profar and Tate. Frazier fills the void that fielder leaves behind,both make out pretty well.
halos101
that’s not enough for sale and Frazier. probably not even enough for sale alone
TwinsVet
I have to believe Chicago would want some MLB level talent in return. No indication they’re embarking on the kind of 2 year rebuild plan that purely “elite prospects” would imply.
Profar and arguably Gallo fit that criteria of contributing to a 2017-2018 contender, but Moncada does not. If Sale is going to Boston, I have to believe a Shaw/Betts/Bradley type would be in the mix.
Otto371
there is a 0% chance the Sox even consider moving Betts, for anyone other than Trout.
Bruin1012
Shaw maybe but Betts no way he is just as valuable not a chance they would trade Betts. I guess i would say I will be shocked if they traded Betts maybe Shaw not Betts and probably not Bradley.
start_wearing_purple
Betts has pretty much reached untouchable status. He’s young, cheap, and in the top 10 in WAR for the AL. Unless someone is offering a young, cheap, top pitcher then Mookie is going no where.
aff10
Mookie isn’t going anywhere, I agree entirely. But Chicago is putting two young, top, cheap pitchers on the market. Boston can make it happen without Betts for sure, but Sale and Quintana are 2 of probably the top 20 assets in the whole sport (I may be a bit high on Quintana, but I think people would be surprised by what he brings back if moved)
Kayrall
Someone could suggest any of the top 10 farms in baseball packaging their 1-10 prospects for just Sale, and there would be multiple people convinced that it is not enough and post about it.
CHendershott
There are people suggesting their team can get him and retain their top prospects. Not happening. WSox don’t need to trade him and have to be overwhelmed to part with him. No one is going to sneak in with B level talent, yet fans of every team claim their top guys are untouchable.
adshadbolt
They actually do need to trade him because there not gonna win. The white sox already reached their peek and they still weren’t good so they need to rebuild trading sale, Quintana, Frazier, abreu, Roberson, duke, will automatically shoot their farm system to one of the best in the league and could easily be winning and 2-3 years. Also they need to start losing because if ur not gonna win, lose so u can get good draft picks. I know all the people saying tanking is bad but if ur not gonna win might as well lose to get high draft picks to get good players
CHendershott
They have cheap control over the best pitcher in the AL for the next three years. That’s if he doesn’t sign an extension. History dictates the White Sox will try to compete every one of those years. They don’t need to trade him and have stated they don’t want to. However, they say they are “listening to offers” so they can see if a contender will blow up the farm to get him. Basically, they are leaving the door open for someone to get fleeced. That’s all it is, so any team floating anything but the very best they have is wasting the electricity it takes to dial a phone. Argue about his worth all you want, but the Sox aren’t trading him unless their socks get blown off (hey-o).
halos101
pretty sure most people would agree that the Red Sox 1-10 top prospects would be plenty for sale so
dresman92
Sale to Cubs for Baez, Torres, Jimenez, and a lower level prospect. Thoughts
whitesox15
Baez, Soler, and Torres. That would fix 2 things the white sox need while giving the cubs the best rotation in baseball.
Michigan Dodger Fan
Would a Dodgers package of Pederson, De Leon, Holmes, and Verdugo get it done? MLB bat, MLB-ready arm, Holmes and Verdugo both top 30 prospects in baseball and look solid.
willreily
Urias would have to be in there. White Sox are giving up their Ace, LA must give up theirs (At least future Ace). I more realistic deal would be Urias, Pederson and De Leon. I guarantee without Urias, teams like the Rangers, Red Sox, and Cubs could beat your package.
Priggs89
As happy as I’d be to take on Urias and DeLeon, I think the White Sox will be much more position player focused if they make a move.
biff47
The hypothetical “packages” being thrown out there for Sale MIGHT be enough to acquire Quintana.
Priggs89
Astros/Nationals/Red Sox/Pirates/Dodgers (if they are willing to include a piece or 2 from the big league roster) are the clubs the Sox need to be talking to IMO. They all have a TON of young talent with high floors/ceilings.
The Cubs would also be included on that list, but knowing the way Jerry operates, he won’t be sending any difference makers up north without it being a MASSIVE overpay. I can all but guarantee that.
KillerBs
yoan moncada+rafael devers+blake swihart+brian Johnson+brock holt for chris sale and david robertson
halos101
man the Rangers would be scary with sale in a playoff series. potentially sale Hamels and darvish if healthy… wow
unsaturatedmatz
Chris Sale and Brett Lawrie to Texas for Jurickson Profar, Chi Chi Gonzalez, Joey Gallo, Dillon Tate, Delino Deshields/Lewis Brinson, and Hanser Alberto
whitesox15
yes 100% I’ll take that
CursedRangers
Interesting. I think the Rangers would want Justin Morneau and possibly a reliever if they gave up that package.
afenton530
Top talent on the market?
Boston fans: we’ll give Beninintendi and Mocanda
Texas fans: we’ll give you Profar and Gallo
Actual GM’s: Balk when their top prospect is mentioned
whitesox15
What about Rodon and Frazier to the Rangers for Gallo and a pitcher. Fielder is most likely out for the season and Frazier can play first with a boom stick. And you get a 23 year old LHP. The white sox would get back Gallo who would fill the void they’ve had at 3rd for years.
Priggs89
Why would the Sox give up on Rodon? There’s pretty much no chance he’s going anywhere.
swissvale
Austin Meadows, Elias Diaz, and Taillion OR Glasnow would be enough.
Brixton
No it wouldn’t. Not even close
Bruin1012
I know that you think that will be enough but there are other teams including Texas, Houston, Boston, LA Dodgers that can beat that offer. Don’t see him going to Pittsburgh unless the other teams don’t step up. That’s if he is really available.
gobraves46
Hot take: Rockies get Sale and Abreu. White Sox get: Rodgers, Tapia, McMahon Freeland, and Riley Pint(who would have to be a PTBNL) maybe the Rockies make a slight run this year. if not, you have Sale, Gray, and Hoffman who could be the start of a rotation that finally conquers coors field
Niekro
It is definitely the type of thinking the Rockies should consider as a means to get an elite pitcher in Colorado, but Pint cant be traded even as a PTBNL. Hoffman or Gray would have to be involved in the trade most likely, and that would be just for Sale not Sale and Abreu.
adshadbolt
Benitendi, Devers, swihart, kopech, Basabe, ball for Sale and Robertson
Brixton
I think that’d be in the neighborhood, honestly.
Priggs89
Replace Devers/Swihart with Moncada, and you might have something.
Bruin1012
would really make you think Hard I think I might do that for Sale.
willreily
Some of these trade ideas are crazy. I’m not a White Sox fan, but it’ll take more than prospects to get a cornerstone like Sale. It has to start with an established MLB, All-star Caliber player. Maybe not an MVP candidate, but somehow who will be a consistent, valuable player for years to come.
THEN you have to assemble the package of prospects. And for someone like Sale, you’re talking multiple top 50 MLB prospects. He is a Cy Young contending 27 year-old Ace, signed through 2019 with TWO team options. If the Rangers offer a package it has to start with Profar/Odor, then Gallo and Brenson at the least. If the Cubs, Schwarber/Baez, then Alamora, Torres, ect. Pirates would need to start with Marte or Polanco, then Glasnow/Taillon Plus.
You can’t just throw top prospects at them and expect them to be blown away. Unless the prospect is a Harper/Strasburg/Bryant, then their just potential.
Brixton
Hes signed through 2019 because of the two options. Not 2019 + the options.
Only thing I disagree with is you’re going to be reluctant to find a team willing to trade an AS caliber player because if they are contending, odds are they don’t want to give up their top MLB players, but some guys should be on the table, I agree.
And I disgree that Odor is a “headliner” if you will. Hes just not THAT great.
willreily
Opps, thats what I meant! I should have said ‘Including 2 team option at the end.
But yeah, every team is relative. Any acquring team would have to give up their closest thing to an solid, controllable player that they have.
I just can’t think of anyone else on the Rangers that is more controllable, young and good production that Odor has.
Brixton
I’d take Gallo, Brinson, Profar or Maraza over Odor
willreily
Yeah I see you’re point, especially since he’s a 2B. I think if I was the White Sox, Maraza, Gallo, and Profar would be my targets.
Bruin1012
LOL Harper seriously that is funny no way.
willreily
I didn’t say Harper??
I said a Harper-Like prospect. Do you remember the type of prospect he was? He had a high floor, and a huge ceiling. My point was unless it’s a prospect that had the tools like Harper, then it would take more than one top prospect.
It’s all about context.
Bruin1012
OK my bad sorry thought you said Harper. I dont see anyone of the contenders giving someone that is already on their team and a star. I used Betts as an example I don’t see the Sox trading Betts for Sale because that is all they would get and maybe a lottery ticket. Im guessing the White Sox want more bodies than that more like Moncada, Devers, Kopeck and maybe Basebe or someone like that. They are not getting someone like Betts for much more than a 1 for 1 trade.
Priggs89
That sounds like the kind of package the White Sox would be interested in, but I’d bet they’d push for Benintendi rather than Devers since he’s closer to the majors. Even IF the White Sox decide to go full rebuild (which I still highly doubt), they won’t want it to be a longterm one.
Priggs89
I don’t think you understand what he’s saying…
Bruin1012
I am just checking you are saying someone like Harper plus multiple top 50 prospects im just trying to make sure i’m reading this right?
willreily
No.. Not the player he is now.
There are certain ‘Can’t miss prospects’. They don’t come along much. Harper was one of them.
My point is that unless a team’s offer includes a prospect equal to the one Harper was, a prospect alone would not get a player of Chris Sale’s caliber.
Bruin1012
OK Play GM for the White Sox what does Boston have to give up to get Sale? I know what I would give up on the Boston side just not sure what the White Sox would want?
East Coast Bias
I think it would take 2 prospects from any team’s top 3, then another from top 8, and one more from top 15.
Boston would have to start with Moncada and Benintendi, then add an arm like Kopech/Johnson, and a project like Trey Ball.
For the Dodgers, start with Urias and Holmes, add in Verdugo, then close out with either Calhoun/Johnson.
KB R.
Willreily – no player is worth what you think Sale is worth. I like how you say to “start” putting a package together for Sale it has to be someone who is an established All-Star caliber player…… and you “kindly” concede it doesn’t HAVE to be an MVP caliber player, hahaha. Then you think on top of that you’ll get MULTIPLE top 50 prospects. To get that you have to only be looking to deal him to teams who are 1) interested in him and contending, AKA buyers, and 2) who have a VERY strong farm system to even HAVE multiple top 50 prospects to deal. Not very many teams out there have more than 2-3 top 50 prospects. And you want them all…….. and an All Star major league player….. who doesn’t have to be MVP caliber.
Sound like you don’t want to trade Sale. Why not just say that.
FYI, granted it was a long time ago (1998), but when the Mariners traded Randy Johnson to the Astros they got Freddy Garcia, Carlos Guillen, and a PTBNL……… that’s it. Garcia was ranked the 61st best prospect pre-1999, and Guillen was ranked the 27th best prospect pre-1997…… 87th pre-1999. Garcia and Guillen were the Astros 6th and 7th best prospects according to baseball america in 1998. The player to be named later was John Halama…. a guy who surprisingly had a fairly long career despite sucking, 9 years, last game was in 2006.
But that’s it. 2 top prospects in a system and a PTBNL for Hall of Famer Randy MFing Johnson. Who unlike Sale had a Cy Young under his belt already. Again, that was a different time, but still. We now live in an era where it seems good players are worth an arm and a leg…… and the other arm and a leg. But assuming we can use history as a barometer to roughly gauge what Sale is worth I’d say at MOST 3 of an organizations top 10 prospects. OR 1 solid, young major leaguer and ONE of their top 10 prospects. So like……… if involving the Rangers….. Rougned Odor and Lewis Brinson for Sale OR Mazara and Brinson……. OR Brinson, Gallo, and Taveras. The fact though that Gallo and Profar are who the Sox are interested in……. the Rangers would be stupid not to cough that up and maybe one other prospect. I say stupid because I think Gallo and his .227 triple A batting average and super high strike out rate is a major bust in waiting. Mike Olt level bust. In fact Gallo and Olt’s minor league stats are pretty comparable. But yeah, if the Sox are looking at Gallo and Profar as the guys they want I have no clue what Texas is waiting for. If Profar, Gallo, and Brinson is what it takes to get the deal done I’d do it in a minute. Only thing I’d consider a major loss regarding the Rangers would be Brinson, but he’s not exactly lighting it up this year in double A.
Bruin1012
I think it’s crazy to think that a team would trade a current All Star player and then multiple prospects that is unrealistic and a complete overpay for really anyone especially if you are talking about a cost controlled all star. Young cost controlled stars are very valuable. Don’t see any team giving that up plus prospects even for Sale.
elcondorworldchamp
Doesn’t seem like that long ago we heard time and again about Chris Sale’s funky delivery, and how he was destined to destroy his arm and shoulder at any moment. Now, he’s become a Holy Grail.
Brixton
Because hes pitched 5 seasons without imploding
KB R.
Brixton – he’s generally good for at least 1 DL stint each year. IMO I wouldn’t want him. I think he’s a walking time bomb for a blown out UCL. He’s already had arm fatigue and flexor strains in his pitching elbow. So again, he is a TJ surgery waiting to happen. How many side arm pitchers do you know of in the modern era that have had long careers while pitching in the low-mid 90s like Sale does? I’m a Cubs fan and I hear and see a lot regarding Sale. Since his first season I don’t trust him. Sure enough he hasn’t exactly been reliable. Sox fans are lying to themselves if they aren’t apprehensive every time he takes the mound, wondering if this is the game he blows out his arm. I say he blows it out within 2 years. Do you take the over or under?
comebacktrail28
Reading some of these Trade Proposals makes me shake my Head ……… Chris Sale is one of the Top 5 pitchers in baseball and After this Year is signed for cheap for next 3 years… He also pitches in The AL in one of the most Hitter friendly parks in baseball ….. You also have to look at that he pitches a lot of High stress innings because he plays with one of the Worst offenses in baseball ( Also see Quintana , Jose) where there’s been a lot of games if he makes one mistake the game is Over ……. If you were to put him on Boston , Houston , Cubs where he might take the mound in the 3rd inning with a 3-0 lead I think he can become even more dominant then he Already is which is pretty Scary
mkeving
Sox get: Puig, turner, urias de Leon and Holmes
Dodgers get: Sale, Frazier
willreily
That’s much closer to what the Sox want. Tho I don’t see the dodgers doing that.
mkeving
Yeah I think Urias is untouchable. I could see De Leon and Puig headlining.
Priggs89
Puig has gone pretty significantly downhill every year he’s been in the league so far. He’s not headlining anything. If you said Pederson, you might get the Sox interested, but I still doubt it’d be enough to push them over the edge.
CHendershott
Dodgers aren’t getting him without Urias. That should be the first name on the list.
chuckn9ne
He was on the list…
tcd777
no way that would happen
tgallagher
Would Cub fans stop typing in Somerset please. He’s always hurt and has underperformed.
cplovespie
Dodgers trade
JDL, Grant Holmes, Willie Calhoun, Alex Verdugo, Frankie Montas, Trayce Thompson and a High-Risk Starter like Mccarthy or Alex wood for the rotation spot.
Doesn’t look like friedman would trade Urias but I would if needed
Priggs89
So basically a third of the package is guys the Sox already gave up?
cplovespie
I’d also imclude Puig and KiKe for eaton
tigers1968
Astros need a SP and Robertson more than any other serious AL playoff contender.
They also have some great prospects with no spot to play. I am surprised they are not in this White Sox sell off big time.
OCTraveler
Puig and a top level pitching prospect other than Urias
Priggs89
Not even close – even if that pitching prospect is Urias. Maybe post-rookie year Puig would help get it done, but definitely not anymore.
Ravens_Last_Place
Here’s what I gather from White Sox fans. You think the White Sox GM would think like this…
Random GM: Hi, we are interested in Chris Sale. What would it take.
CWS GM: Bryce Harper, Mike Trout, Starling Marte, Xander Bogaerts, Clayton Kershaw and Noah Syndegaard.
Random GM: Interesting. We offer a player on the level of Jay Bruce. Take it or leave it.
Sale is not worth a major haul! Certainly not worth the haul Cole Hamels brought to the Phillies last year. No way.
Priggs89
Lol do you even watch baseball?
Ravens_Last_Place
Every single day. And yes I have seen Sale pitch quite a bit. I’m guessing you don’t watch baseball.
Priggs89
Okay, so we’ve established that you do in fact watch baseball; you just clearly have no idea what’s going on and don’t understand value.
Example: “Pittsburgh could package Liriano, Locke, Melancon and Kuhl”
Ravens_Last_Place
PIT could. CWS should accept. We have established that. Talent now and for the future. It’s all there. For one good but not great pitcher. More than fair. But some crazy big market GM will offer more because they can fix mistakes by throwing around money. Pittsburgh cannot do that.
CHendershott
Don’t feed the troll. He also suggested Panda, Hanley, Kimbrel and Porcello to Chicago for Sale, Frazier and Abreu (as a throw in no less). No one can be that naive.
Priggs89
For his sake, I really hope he is just a troll and not this stupid, but I have my doubts.
Bruin1012
He’s just trolling nobody is that clueless.
tcd777
come on man really you know nothing about baseball
Cubs_Fan31
Haha so true on the GM conversations!
Sox GM: we need you to add a player that can hit .220 with 30 HR an all star from 10 years ago so we can sell our fans.
BoSox GM: We’ll give you the rights to Allen Craig and Rusney Castillo plus we will pay 1/2 the money owed to them.
Sox GM: throw in Aaron Hill?
Ravens_Last_Place
Haha!
Breaking news – White Sox GM demands Babe Ruth equivalent player for Jose Quintana. Multiple teams offer up a Babe Ruth forged signature on a baseball. Strongest offer CWS received so far.
tcd777
good one man you crack me up
gammaraze
“Certainly not worth the haul Cole Hamels brought to the Phillies last year. No way.”
And what haul was that, exactly? Eickhoff, Asher, and Williams weren’t high prospects. Alfaro and Thompson were lower ranked than Gallo and Profar, and still are, and are lower ranked than Brinson is now. Harrison was included as $35M in salary relief,
When Hamels was acquired, he was still owed $84M, $98M if the Rangers want to keep him through 2019. Hamels is 32, a 4 time All-Star and 4 time Cy Young candidate.
Sale is 27, keeping him through 2019 will cost a team $41M, HALF of what Hamels cost (not counting salary relief). Sale is a 5 time All-Star, 4 time Cy Young candidate (consecutive), and has a sub-3.00 career ERA
If the Rangers tried to offer Luis Ortiz/Jairo Beras/Josh Morgan/Luke Jackson/Pedro Payano without receiving any salary relief, would that get Chris Sale?? Not even close, but those are the prospects that currently rank the same in the Rangers farm system as the guys they sent to the Phillies last year.
Oh, and their was a STRONG starting pitching free agent class this past off season… There’s no Greinke, Price, Cueto, Zimmerman, Maeda, Iwakuma type of guys or depth of guys this year. Starting pitching is going to be at a premium price without the premium quality this go around.
MiamiPhins34
Nick Williams was actually a large part of the trade as another top 100 prospect.
double
Williams, Alfaro, and Thompson were all top 100 prospects at the time of the deal and are all top 50 now according to Baseball Prospectus. Jerad Eickhoff has a 1.9 bWAR this year and a 3.7 bWAR in 28 MLB starts.. That’s the kind of pitcher the Rangers are trading for right now.
I doubt you can get three top 50 (or top 100) prospects for most players, let alone three prospects and a guy with a 1.9 bWAR in 2016.
tcd777
just leave if you don’t think sale (if traded) will bring in a major haul then you are just dumb
tcd777
A player like Jay Bruce for Chris Sale come on man
stymeedone
There are no players like Jay Bruce.
1Tough9
Jeff, there is a typo in the last sentence of this article. You forgot the “O” in “Chicago”
Cheers!
CursedRangers
Most of the conversation is about Sale (and rightfully so). Obviously I would rather the Rangers snag Sale. However, I wouldn’t be disappointed if they got Quintana. He would be a perfect # 3 pitcher in the playoffs.
chitownsox11
Unless Odor and Mazara are involved you are not getting close to either
chitownsox11
It really blows my mind the amount of garbage deals that people think have a possibility to happen. In what world does Gallo (a worse version of Frazier) and Profar (injured plagued player who hasn’t lived to to the hype) get you a top five starting pitcher as the headliners of the trade.
Sale is a top five starting pitcher who pitches in the American League, in the prime of his career, and has a team friendly contract. The White Sox do not HAVE to trade him, they are just seeing what some teams might be willing to give up.
bbow19
If I’m a team, I want Quintana. Sale has a unique delivery that scares me without his pitching coach that knows him. Especially in Boston. If I’m Boston I’m looking more at a JBJ, Devers, E-Rod, swihart for Quintana/DRob. Proven young ML talent and a top prospect.
Bruin1012
Don’t think Sox are trading JBJ that leave a while in the Outfield. They certainly wouldn’t trade him with Devers, Seihart and Erod. No way too much to give up it would have to be a prospect deal for Boston to pull the trigger. JBJ has too much value now.
brandons-3
It’s a good reminder to remember the 2007 Mark Teixeira to Atlanta deal for a few reasons. Of course, three of the players Texas acquired have combined for four All Star appearances and played a key role in 2 AL pennants, thus showing that as tough it is to trade legitimate franchise type players, it can prove to be the best. A step further, if that trade wasn’t made, there’s probably an even better chance this Sale deal doesn’t happen because without Andrus, Profar is manning shortstop and isn’t even considered a trade chip. I don’t like to think of any player as untouchable, as much as there are certain players who’s value is considered unreachable. (Example: Angels don’t want to trade Trout, but what if Cubs offered Bryant, and took on Pujols’ deal, of course they do that, but that’s not even a possibility so the value of trout isn’t untouchable as much as it is unreachable) A package of Profar and Gallo is a very good base to structure a package for Sale. Add the pretty parts around it, and then all the White Sox fans can rightly be infuriated that their management team continued to be inept 🙂
brandons-3
When they reject the proposal for Sale**
Ravens_Last_Place
No way would Angels take Bryant for Trout and Pujols’ contract. Absolutely no way. You’re nuts. Trout and Harper are the two most valuable trade assets in baseball. If you want one, you better be ready to trade your entire minor league system.
KB R.
I must be one of the few who isn’t exactly overwhelmed with Sale. Don’t get me wrong, he’s a great pitcher, but as a fan for the other team in town his injury riddled past worries me. IMO he’s a TJ surgery waiting to happen. He’s also due for a DL stint here in a few weeks. Usually goes on the DL at least once each year it seems. He’s also gone from 11.8 K/9 last year to 8.7 K/9 this year. If that’s a start of a trend I’d be concerned. Again, he’s a great pitcher…. I just don’t trust him. I’m glad he’s on the Sox because it means he’ll never be traded to the Cubs because Reinsdorf is petrified of looking like a fool in a deal and having to hear about it from the fair weather Sox fans. He doesn’t want another Sosa deal on his hands. Ever since that deal the Cubs and Sox have been trade partners sparingly and when they do make trades with each other it is for insignificant players. Last “major” trade was Jon Garland for Matt Karchner. Cubs came out on the short end of the deal, but it wasn’t exactly like Garland was some stellar pitcher himself. Career 4.37 ERA, 1.39 WHIP 136-125 record over 13 seasons. meh
tcd777
first off “injury riddled past” when has sale suffered an injury when he has been sidelined for more then a few weeks none that I can recall and second off his strike out rate has gone down because sale has let the ball be hit more and not going for the strike out every at bat you got to know the other side of the story man
sfu13
Injury riddled? Cause he broke his foot last year? Cub fans like you have been saying he’s a “TJ waiting to happen” for 5 years now and it hasn’t happened. Don’t confuse the Sox with your “Great Injury-riddled Hopes” like Prior and Wood (And Sale is better than both of them combined).
Oh, and the Garland trade was great for the Sox. 18-8 with a 3..14ERA in 2005 and helped obtain something the Cubs don’t have….a ring. Game, set, match.
KB R.
From 2014. Notice the first sentence, “for the 3rd season in a row” comment
southsidesox.com/2014/4/22/5638828/annual-chris-sa…
2015 Sale injures his right foot. Lands on the DL. This was officially only his 2nd time on the DL. The first was in 2014 for a flexor strain in his pitching elbow, but who needs to worry about that. Other times he avoided the DL by either just being skipped a few times when his turn came up in the rotation, or he’d be sent to the bullpen to rest.
m.mlb.com/news/article/72884110/white-sox-left-han…
Notice the 3rd paragraph.
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“So, at this point, we figured we are much better off having him miss the start here in Detroit and miss the start against Tampa Bay and then re-evaluate,” Hahn said. “Hopefully, the recovery from this goes as smoothly as the last couple of times we’ve dealt with this and he’s able to take the ball when his 15 days are up.
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Specifically where he says “last couple of times we’ve dealt with this.” Meaning he’s dealt with arm fatigue and strains in his elbow multiple times. As I said and stand by, he’s suffered a ton of nagging injuries in his short career, AKA injury riddled. He’s a great pitcher, don’t get me wrong. I just don’t trust him. If I were a team interested in acquiring a pitcher I’d be more interested in Quintana.
hanks1hammer
Smh. You are CERTAIN you are unbiased?
*Almost every pitcher experiences a stint on the DL once a year.
*Sale leads the league in IP
*Since 2012, he has not pitched less than 170 IP. The other three years he did, 214, 208, 192.
I’m an outsider on this one. Not a Cubs fan or a White Sox fan. You look like someone trying to poke a hole in a rivals pitcher right now.
KB R.
Almost every pitcher goes on the DL once a year? Really? Keep telling yourself that. SALE might go on the DL every year or miss time to heal, but that is hardly the norm. You’re just used to it with Sale.
Sale leads the league in IP. Well, 4 pitchers actually have more, but he’s close. All the more reason to expect an injury to pop up sooner or later this year……. it always happens with him.
170 IP isn’t something to be proud of. That’s an output you should expect from your 4th-5th starters. Not your Ace. I understand why you think that is impressive because the Sox haven’t had a steady 4th or 5th starter for quite some time so 170 IP seems like a lot. FYI, it’s not.
I truly don’t care about the Sox. I can honestly say I don’t care about that team or pretty much any other team for that matter. I do still value and evaluate their players like I do any other team though, and ignoring Sale’s crappy mechanics and arm issue laden past is pretty ignorant.
Pretty sure I never said he wasn’t a great pitcher. In fact I said, “Don’t get me wrong, he’s a great pitcher.” So I don’t get what the problem is. Are you upset that I have pointed out he has a shoddy delivery and mechanics and as a result has suffered multiple, annual nagging injuries, several to his pitching elbow? Why? Usually pointing out the weaknesses in a player is valued because people get lost in the hype surrounding players…… like Bryce Harper, easily the most overrated player in the game. All I’m saying is that I don’t trust Sale and his arm to stay healthy. WOAH!!!! I’m being way out of line. A guy with arm issues in his past leading me to not trust his arm health going down the road. How audacious of me. Where do i get off thinking that a guy likely has TJ surgery in his near future because he has had flexor strains and arm fatigue issues in his past…. several times. You got me. I’m just poking holes in a player on a team I couldn’t give two s***s about. *sarcasm*
KB R.
Joey Gallo has to be the most overrated prospect out there. I get it, he can hit HRs. But how does a guy find himself in the top 10 of top 100 prospect lists when in 119 triple A games he has a .227 batting average and 175 strike outs? Stretching that punch out pace over 162 games it would be 238 Ks…….. against triple A pitching. That’s pretty pathetic.
Sizemore24Tribe
exactly, insanely overrated. mark Reynolds part 2
hanks1hammer
For every top prospect there are always a handful of fans saying he’s overrated.
Frank Richard
You are correct about there always being a handful of fans with different opinions but nothing Gallo has done beside hit for power has been impressive. He isn’t a great defensive 3B and strikes out a ton. I actually like the Mark Reynolds comparison, but Gallo has more power and isn’t as good defensively as Reynolds was in his prime.
KB R.
Hank- true. But Gallo has a horrible BA and strike out rate. So bad the HRs can’t overshadow it. I mean his overall BA is only like .255-.257 in the minors. His minors K-rate is 34%. When Javier Baez made his debut he had a k-rate of about 40%. THAT was at the ML level though. Gallo is almost at that level in the minors. Unlike Baez, Gallo doesn’t have the BA Baez did. Gallo is Adam Dunn of the minors. In the Majors he is Adam Dunn in his White Sox days…… useless. When Gallo made his debut last year he struck out 46% of the time. Horrendous. He can hit HRs, I’ll give him that. But everything else is VERY unimpressive about him. He’s not even a good fielder. His only claim to fame is he can hit HRs. Throw him breaking pitches out of the zone though and you eliminate him from the picture every time. IMO he is Mike Olt reincarnate. At least Olt had an excuse and blamed his poor vision (despite still sucking after he got contacts/glasses). Gallo is an easy bust you can see a mile away. I think the Rangers would be fools not to trade Mazara and Gallo for Sale. I don’t think it would take much more than that to get him…. if more. But then again I’m not a big fan of Sale either. As a Cub fan I look at him objectively unlike WSox fans. His mechanics are ugly AF. He’s battled naggin injuries and arm soreness and fatigue multiple times in his young career already, and quite honestly I am willing to bet that sometime in the next 2 years his arm finally gives and his UCL will explode and require TJ surgery. Side arm pitchers 1) rarely throw 92-94 MPH like Sale does, and 2) rarely stay healthy for long. Combine those two things and IMO Sale is a ticking time bomb. He’s only pitched 200+ innings twice in his career of 4 seasons of being a full time starter. And the 2 years he did cross the threshold he BARELY crossed the threshold. Generally when I think of Aces I would like them to go at least 220 or more IP. The fact Sale has yet to miss time with some sort of injury yet this year makes me feel he isn’t too far off from a DL trip yet this year.
If I were the Rangers or Red Sox I’d be more interested in Quintana.
tcd777
White Sox: Moncada, Beinhenti, Swihart, Devers, 2 A/B level prospects
Red Sox: Sale
most likely the only way this deal gets done
Gogerty
If I were the White Sox I would do that in a snap.
Priggs89
Drop Swihart for one of their top pitchers, and that’d be the kind of deal they’d be looking for.
Frank Richard
Drop one of the A/B level prospect an include Kelly and Cash to replace a spot in the major league rotation for the rest of the season for CHW. That would be s huge haul for Chicago and it makes them contenders in their division really soon with Frazier, Anderson, Moncada, and Abreu in the infield. Benitendi, Jackson, Eaton in the outfield. Quintana, Rodon, Fulmer, Shields, and find a 5th starter in the rotation. Dukes, Robertson, and Jones still in the pen. That roster would be younger and better next season.
East Coast Bias
I think Houston has a really strong chance to trade for Sale. Seems like a perfect fit for both sides. I would say their bevy of top prospects are more desirable to Chicago than the Rangers’.. And they’ll be more willing to include their top prospect Bergman rather than BoSox or Dodgers would be willing to include Moncada or Urias, respectively.
BoSoxCurseBreaker
The Red Sox obviously need to check in with a real offer for Sale. As a Sox fan, that would be the one needed piece to put them over the top this year.
Is it possible to make a play for Sale and not include Benintendi or Moncada? I salivate at the thought of Moncada at third and Benintendi joining Betts and JBJ in the outfield next season and for the foreseeable future.
ERod, Travis Shaw, Swihart . . . Fine with moving all of them as well as any prospects not named Moncada or Benintendi. The Sox can trade prospects (especially positional) easily because the young core is great. If they sign someone like Encarnacion to replace Papi’s production and do some more work on the SP, then I think they are SET for years.
Priggs89
Is it possible to make a play for Sale and not include Benintendi or Moncada?
Not even remotely possible. I’d argue that it’s not possible for them to make a play for Sale without including BOTH of them, unless they are willing to move pieces from their big league roster instead.
comebacktrail28
Love the Cubs Fans Talking about how Sale’s arm is going to fall off ……. Prob same people who said Mark Prior’s arm is made out of Titanium
Wainofan
What about Wacha, Wong, Adams, Luke weaver and another prospect not named Reyes for Sale to Redbirds?
rivera42
Sale for Judge, Sanchez, and Mateo plus the prospects from a Miller trade.
Enough for the Sox to bite?
Priggs89
It’d depend on who the prospects from the Miller deal were. If they were a couple top prospects from another organization, then maybe. Otherwise, other teams could beat that package pretty easily IMO.
rivera42
I’m assuming they’ll be able to get two top prospects for Miller. Say one top 50 and another top 100. So, 4 top 50 and a top 100 prospect for Sale.
kingfelix34
Could do a 3 team trade, I’m not saying this is a good idea but it could happen, Seattle trades T Oneil, A Jackson, D Jackson, Zack Shank and P Blackburn to CHW, and sends DJ Peterson to NYY, New York trades Chapman and Miller to Seattle, New York trades Sanchez and Judge to CHW, CHW sends Sale to NYY
Shane Newbanks 2
Why would the Yankees make this trade though? They are going to be garbage next year even if they get Sale. Hold onto your prospects and what in 2018 FA class.
Gogerty
Forgot Bird.
Wainofan
Sox get Wacha, Wong, Adams, Luke Weaver, and another b level prospect
Cards get Sale
fearandtrembling
Wacha and Wong suck. Terrible package.
Frank Richard
Cardinals would have to give up their top 3 minor leaguers and Wong and Wacha to get Sale. Their top prospects aren’t that highly rated.
agentx
Reinsdorf said privately that Alvarez, Howry, Barceló, and three low-level prospects should be enough to get it done.
Ryan Koellhoffer
I would trade Devers, Beni, ERod, and Swihart for sale. The rotation becomes Sale, Price, Porcello, Wright, Pomeranz. All of them are controllable, which makes ERod expendable
Priggs89
Replace Swihart with Moncada and then add a low level high ceiling lottery ticket or two, and you have something. Otherwise, not likely to happen.
Frank Richard
Any trade for Sale with the Red Sox is going to start with Moncada. Swiharts value isn’t what it once was either.
Phil Merkel
Requiring Mazara will kill any possible trade with Rangers.
chitownsox11
So you think the white sox are going to trade the most valuable pitcher in the major league (talent and cheap controllable contract) for a bunch of lottery tickets (prospects).
I do not see anyway they take a package that does not include a young position player with some mlb experience and production.
A team will pay the price the sox want.
gammaraze
Want to retract your statement? Mazara has been in the league all of 3 months, he is no more a sure thing than Gallo or Profar, both of whom have been linked to this potential trade. It’s been reported that the White Sox basically want a teams’ top 5 prospects, so your statement was invalid before you even bothered to type it out.
There’s no way the Rangers give up Mazara, Gallo, and Profar in this trade, unless they pile on even more prospects and get Quintana as well. Realistically, what asking for Mazara does is make the Rangers aware that a trade for Sale WILL have to include Gallo and Profar, or far more on their prospect chart than they were originally hoping for.
Priggs89
Mazara is 21 years old and already playing decently at the MLB level. In Gallo’s first stint in the majors, he struck out basically 50% of the time. Add that to his huge strikeout numbers in the minors, and I’d argue that Mazara is MUCH more of a sure thing than Gallo.
Also, I don’t know why everyone thinks Profar would be a huge get for the White Sox. He isn’t the trade piece he once was, and even though he’s finally showing some promise at the big league level, he’s only got 3 years left on his deal. Not ideal for the White Sox. The Rangers are honestly the last of the “big prospect teams” that I’d be trying to make a trade with. I’d be on the phone with the Astros and Red Sox trying to make something happen for both Sale and Q.
Phil Merkel
Then let them…no Mazara
Phil Merkel
Won’t be the Rangers…no Mazara
chitownsox11
You honestly can not be serious? Profar who has been injured and has about three years of control, and scott boras as an agent? And then Gallo who is a worse version of Frazier?
And honestly, if Gallo is not different than Mazara than why do you care who is in the trade. And if you aren’t willing to pay heavily there is no possibility to land Sale.
It really blows my mind that all of these of teams fans are not willing to give up prospects. Until you prove you can play at the MLB level for ATLEAST a couple seasons who cares? Everyone else is a lottery ticket. You know what you are getting with Sale.
Honestly what suppose of “fans” of others teams are thinking will get it done is laughable.
If Sale was a free agent this offseason he would get the biggest contract of any pitcher in MLB history. Yet, people are saying they can get him for less than there organizations top prospects along with young mlb talent?
Bruin1012
God I hope it’s not the Red Sox if it would cost Bradley plus. If the Sox want good prospects I am not opposed to trading Prospects for him but no one off their current team unless maybe Shaw. Besides they would not get the amount of players they are looking for if they wanted an established player like Bradley and to a lesser extent Mazara. If they trade Sale and Quintana they are rebuilding and they need to blow it up and get as many high ceiling prospects as possible.
benchguy1
Word is that Sale was just scratched from tonight’s start.
Priggs89
“flu”
edit – now I’m hearing “clubhouse incident”
MB923
Nope. No flu. Scratched due to a clubhouse incident (non-physical)
steelerbravenation
Sale to Rangers for Gallo, Brinson, Chi Chi, Mendez & Martin Perez
Quintana to Red Sox for Benintendi, E-Rod & Owens
Frazier to the Indians for Bradley & Kaminsky
Eaton & Robertson to the Giants for Susac, Bickford & Shaw
Abreu to Astros for Moran, Musgrove & Kemp
Frank Richard
If they blew it up like that and actually pulled those prospects that could change things really quick for their future. No way Rangers get Sale without giving up Profar and Gallo.
MB923
Chris Sale scratched due to a non-physical clubhouse incident
Priggs89
Hopefully he verbally abused Ventura
Gogerty
That would be awesome.
steelerbravenation
Also got middle relievers to trade & James Shields could be moved again that would be full blown rebuild
B-Strong
Id love for the BoSox to snag Quintana but not if it would cost Moncada and Beni both.
brandons-3
I think in order to get Moncada, Rodriguez, Devers, and Benintendi for Sale, the White Sox either have to include David Robertson or take on all or a portion of a contract a la Sandoval or Castillo. I think for Texas a package including Profar, Gallo, Tate, and at least 2 other prospects should do it.
The White Sox should rightfully be demanding a king’s ransom, but they should realistically understand that it’s been proven they won’t be significant contenders while Chris Sale is under contract. Even if it’s not an absolute fleece of a team, get the absolute best return you can and begin the process of rebuilding (which should have begun back in 2013 with the trade of Jake Peavy that was botched)
stymeedone
How is it proven that the White Sox can’t contend while their Ace is signed to a team friendly contract? Or are you implying that no team can win with Chris Sale, because of his being jinxed/cursed/a cancer in the clubhouse? Me thinks you are talking nonsense.
brandons-3
Since he has become a starting pitcher the White Sox have won 85, 63, 76, and 73 games in addition to being on a 77 win pace as of right now. Are you telling me there’s a slew of top prospects coming up that all of baseball missed? Will they suddenly become a World Series contender next year? Maybe the next 2? It’s not that a team CAN’T win it’s been proven that this management team isn’t going to surround Sale with pieces that will help winning, thus meaning go get your next young core out of Sale, Robertson, Quintana, etc. load the system and come back in a few years. Look what Atlanta did in trading their core guys minus Teherán and Freeman, their system is stacked, they’ve got tremendous payroll flexibility, and they’ll only be adding to it it with the probable top pick in next year’s draft. Yeah it’ll stink until about 2018, but I’d rather have their future than a Chicago future in 2018 with Sale, Rodon, Anderson, and the other 22 players who Ken Williams will put together to form yet another 75-80 win club 🙂
bballer
“SATURDAY,9:26pm: The White Sox aren’t motivated to trade either Sale or Quintana, multiple major league sources”
OF COURSE THEY ARE MOTIVATED!
They are somewhat rebuilding, and need as much major league ready talent as possible,
They’re just not “motivated” to do the deal unless they get what they consider a good return.
Connorsoxfan
Glasnow left the game with a shoulder problem last night, so scratch the Glasnow and Meadows idea…
bhambravesfan
When making up offers, you have to realize that you are trying to talk a team into dealing a player that doesn’t have to be moved. Kinda the same situation as Fernandez last year. What are you giving more this year than you would next year? Is that piece worth losing another year of Sale for the Sox?