The rebuilding Braves didn’t show much improvement in the standings, ending up with a 68-93 record that landed them the fifth overall pick in the 2017 draft. But Atlanta ended the year on a 12-and-2 tear that represented a high note on which to finish. With a much-anticipated new ballpark on the horizon and an expectation of significant financial outlays at the major league level, hopes are high … but just how high should they be?
- Freddie Freeman, 1B: $106.5MM through 2021
- Matt Kemp, OF: $54.5MM through 2019 (Dodgers, via Padres, paying $10.5MM of remaining obligations)
- Julio Teheran, SP: $26.3MM through 2019 ($12MM club option for 2020; $1MM buyout)
- Nick Markakis, OF: $21MM through 2018
- Tyler Flowers, C: $3.3MM through 2017 ($4MM club option for 2018; $300K buyout)
- Jim Johnson, RP: Unreported guarantee through 2018
Arbitration Eligible Players (service time in parentheses; link to MLBTR projections)
- Ender Inciarte, OF (2.157): $2.8MM
- Josh Collmenter, SP/RP (5.110): $2.2MM
- Arodys Vizcaino, RP (3.168): $1.6MM
- Chris Withrow, RP (3.111): $1.2MM
- Ian Krol, RP (2.147): $1.0MM
- Anthony Recker, C (4.000): $1.0MM
- Paco Rodriguez, RP (3.120): $900K
- Non-tender candidates: Collmenter, Withrow, Recker, Rodriguez
Atlanta Braves Depth Chart; Atlanta Braves Payroll Information
In some ways, the task to date has been straightforward for Atlanta GM John Coppolella and president of baseball operations John Hart: with a prioritization of value over need, and talent over results, he set out to add as much controllable talent as possible. That has resulted in a highly-regarded farm system that is increasingly pushing players onto the major league roster. But now, the balance begins to get a bit trickier.
The Braves spoke of improving at the major league level in 2016, and that didn’t really occur. But Coppolella and company nevertheless intend to take a step toward focusing on major league results in the coming campaign. The first order of business was choosing a manager, with interim skipper Brian Snitker receiving the permanent nod after delivering solid results down the stretch.
The shifting mindset is most evident in regard to the starting rotation, where Coppolella says at least two additions are planned. Much of the rebuild has focused on adding pre-MLB arms, a fair number of them at the upper levels of the minors, but to date that hasn’t led to much productivity at the major league level. Atlanta’s rotation was one of the worst in all of baseball last year, with only Julio Teheran posting a full season’s worth of quality starts.
Whether or not Teheran and his appealing contract reach the trading block has long been the source of intrigue, but it may be that the Braves will no longer seriously pursue such a path — unless, at least, there’s a truly overwhelming offer to be had that includes major league-ready talent. Otherwise, Mike Foltynewicz seemingly showed enough (4.31 ERA, 8.1 K/9 vs. 2.6 BB/9 in 123 1/3 innings) to warrant a spot in next year’s rotation, but the rest of the staff seems to be up for grabs.
If Atlanta does add two established pitchers to its stable — no small feat on a barren market for starters — then that would appear to leave a single job available for the remaining internal options. Josh Collmenter, who was added late in the year, could take a starter’s role or end up as a swingman. Less-established hurlers such as Matt Wisler, John Gant, Aaron Blair, Williams Perez, and Tyrell Jenkins may also battle for jobs, but will need to impress in camp to avoid a trip back to Triple-A Gwinnett. Some pitchers who have yet to make their major league debuts could ultimately enter the mix as the season progresses, including Chris Ellis, Sean Newcomb, Lucas Sims, and breakout talent Patrick Weigel.
Looking at the market for the pair of arms that Atlanta desires, there are a variety of possible approaches for the team to consider. Following the Phillies’ plan a winter ago — targeting bounceback veterans on short-term, reasonably expensive contracts — could lead the Braves to pursue a pitcher such as Jason Hammel or Jaime Garcia via trade. There are bigger fish that could be available from other organizations, though indications from the team are that it won’t part with the top prospects that would be needed to land a true top-of-the-rotation arm. The free agent market does contain some options, of course. It would be surprising to see the Braves chase Rich Hill, the highest-upside arm available, but they could conceivably look into Jeremy Hellickson or Ivan Nova while also chasing value further down the market — where pitchers like Clay Buchholz, Charlie Morton, Edinson Volquez, and Doug Fister.
The bullpen could be a landing spot for a few of those pitchers, but seems likely to be anchored by Arodys Vizcaino — who’ll look to bounce back after a very rough second half that was impacted by shoulder problems — and veteran Jim Johnson, who just re-upped for two more years. Young fireballer Mauricio Cabrera has also likely locked up a spot, though his peripherals (7.5 K/9, 4.5 BB/9, 49.1% groundball rate) didn’t quite mach his ERA (2.82) and outrageous average velocity (an even 100 mph). Jose Ramirez showed well in his first extensive taste in the majors, Chris Withrow may have the track on a job if he can return to health, and Ian Krol will likely be the top lefty after a nice bounceback season. With other names in the mix as well, the pen doesn’t figure to be an area of focus this winter, though certainly a veteran arm could end up being added here as well.
Much the same holds true of the outfield, which received a boost from Matt Kemp after his mid-season acquisition. The veteran showed signs of a resurgence after coming over in a swap that allowed the Braves to jettison Hector Olivera. When the dust settled, Atlanta was left on the hook for $8.5MM annually over the next three years over and above Olivera’s own $28.5MM in remaining obligations. (They’ll still actually pay Kemp the $54.5MM reflected above.) The 32-year-old swatted a dozen long balls in 241 plate appearances, and more importantly raised his overall batting line to .280/.336/.519. He’d still be a better fit in the American League, but that’s reasonably-priced pop even given his defensive limitations.
The club will have some potential decisions to make in the outfield, though. Ender Inciarte remains the obvious choice in center after putting up another season of average hitting combined with stellar defense and baserunning. Nick Markakis remains entrenched in right. Though he returned to hitting low-double-digit home runs (13 this year), he’s still only an average producer on offense. His glove does continue to boost his value, but Markakis probably doesn’t profile as a first-division regular at this stage of his career. Whether the Braves can find a taker for a big portion of his remaining salary may be the difference in determining the near-term fate of Mallex Smith, who could end up opening the year at Triple-A after a solid but hardly commanding rookie-year performance.
It’s also not clear whether Atlanta will push hard to make changes in the infield — at least in the traditional sense of signing a free agent to plug a hole — though certainly creative possibilities can’t be discounted. Freddie Freeman is obviously a lock at first base, where he’ll aim to repeat a stellar 2016. And Dansby Swanson is nearly as good a bet to take the everyday job at short that he handled well upon his late-season call-up.
At second and third, the Braves have relatively little need to act, but certainly could if the right opportunity arose. The former is being held open for Ozzie Albies, who’ll compete for a job out of camp but may spend a bit more time in the upper minors before making his ascent — particularly since he won’t be able to play in the Arizona Fall League after suffering a late-season olecranon fracture. Though he struggled at Triple-A, Albies posted a monster .321/.391/.467 batting line with 21 stolen bases in 371 plate appearances at Double-A last year, playing at just 19 years of age. With Jace Peterson available at second and Daniel Castro on hand as a utility option, expectations are that Atlanta will keep relatively quiet in this area while waiting for Albies.
At the hot corner, Adonis Garcia probably showed enough down the stretch to obviate the need for a short-term signing. After a rough start, the 31-year-old posted a .293/.333/.456 batting line with nine home runs over his 301 plate appearances and drew more promising reviews of his glovework down the stretch. He could be pushed in camp, though, by youngster Rio Ruiz, who had a solid .271/.355/.400 campaign at Triple-A in his age-22 season. Though there’s not a need here, strictly speaking, it is an area where the team could look to upgrade if there’s a chance to add a high-quality player.
If there’s a spot other than the rotation that will almost certainly see some change, it’s behind the plate. Tyler Flowers will be back after a strong season in which he ran up a 109 OPS+ while appearing in 83 games. Journeyman Anthony Recker is controllable as well, and was even more impressive (.278/.394/.433) in his 112 plate appearances. But with Opening Day starter A.J. Pierzynski set to depart, and a mandate to improve, there has been plenty of chatter about the possibilities for an upgrade.
The free agent catching market took a huge hit with the recent ACL tear of Wilson Ramos, and it had already lost Francisco Cervelli when he agreed to an extension with the Pirates earlier in the season. But there are still at least a few near-everyday players set to reach the open market — chiefly, Matt Wieters (who has ties to the Atlanta area) and Jason Castro — and the trade market could provide some avenues as well. Atlanta has been connected, in particular, with long-time star Brian McCann, though it doesn’t seem as if the Yankees will part with him for quite as low a price as the Braves would prefer to pay. A bounceback candidate such as Derek Norris could also be pursued if the team’s preferred options aren’t achievable.
All told, there are a number of places on this roster that a clear contending team would deem in need of an upgrade. For Atlanta, though, there needs to be greater balance, lest future commitments again tie the organization’s hands. Coppolella has said that the club will have much more to spend than usual, but a truly all-in approach would be a major surprise. What investments the team does make figure to play a fairly significant role in dictating the team’s timeline to return to true contention.
Off subject, is anyone else having issues with not getting notifications from here on their phone? I haven’t had one notification for about 2 weeks from traderumors. I’ve also tried deleting the app
Yeah, me too
I have nothing but issues with the app. It has gotten where it only loads the feed about a third of the time. The only reason I have it on my android phone is that other times the ads play havoc with my phone and that gets aggravating too.
Who are the non-tender candidates?
Wouldn’t really shock me to see Paco, Recker or Collmenter, but I don’t see a true non-tender lock. No one is really making a ton, and everyone there has been serviceable
i’d be pretty surprised to see a team with a dearth of quality relievers cut a pitcher like Paco. Lefty with upside, young and cheap. No reason not to see if he can come back to form for the pittance he’s making. Recker was solid as well, unless they’e going after Weiters, I figure he’s safe. Collmenter? They probably buy out his option.
I really think the Braves will hang on to Collmenter. It wasn’t too long ago that he was thought to be at least a decent pitcher before issues sidelined him. He was outstanding in his brief stint with the Braves:
3 games 19 IP, 5/16 bb/k ratio, .221 BAA, 1.05 WHIP and 2.37 ERA
I know it was a super small sample size, but it isn’t too far of a reach to think that he could be a very serviceable starting pitcher. In the current market I just don’t see $2.2 million being too much of a price to take the risk on him. I think they give him a shot.
I actually believe the Braves won’t cut any of the 7 players up for arbitration, although they might seek to do something with Recker that will solidify him going to Gwinnett. He would be solid insurance in case of injury.
Well I would only think the timing of the trade that brought him in was to give him a bounce back year next year.
I think the Braves trade for McCann, with the Yanks paying down the salary 5 million a year and landing Newcomb and Fried.
There is no chance they’d give up that much to bring back McCann. I sincerely doubt they’d even consider giving up one of them for McCann.
salionski, i think at this point Fried is more or less off the trade table just due to his stock being so low, just finishing up his first season returning from TJ.
Fried had a really solid year. If anything his stock is back on the rise
I agree that he is back on the rise, but he is not where he was prior to surgery.. I do think trading him now would still be selling him at a low point. keep in mind that he was a number 7 overall pick and a top 30ish overall prospect prior to his surgery. He still has the upside of being a number 2, and just started showing that again this year.
Agreed. Most NL teams, even in this market, will not be interested in McCann as his body deteriorates. He wins points with the Braves for nostalgia, which they are obviously fond of, and leadership, but they will not give up any top tier prospects who could be used to acquire better major leaguers. McCann would just be a good bridge until something better comes up.
LOL no, That would NOT happen. As much as I’m a fan of McCann that would be an extreme overpay for him.
I’m not opposed to bringing him back,, but the truth is that other teams (in the American League even) would probably pay the Yankees more for BMac than Atlanta would. He definitely isn’t worth Newcomb and Fried even if the Yankees paid 15 million a year on his salary!
Looking back at my own post (and the timer for edits is long expired) I probably went to the far extreme the other way. My point is that McCann has value certainly, but because he is an older, declining catcher and under a VERY expensive contract it would be difficult to imagine Atlanta trading two such high ceiling prospects for him.
As a braves fan who is not that big on newcomb, i can honestly say that there is absolutely no way that trade would happen. However, it is not necessarily because of Newcomb, i just dont see much of any scenario where Fried gets traded, as he is just finishing his first season back from TJ and i think any trade involving him would be selling him at an extreme low.
McCann has negative trade value. The Yankees would have to pay part of his contract to get rid of him for nothing in return. The Braves aren’t going to give up any blue-chip prospects like Fried or Newcomb unless the Yankees eat at least half of his contract.
Lol what am I reading
Delusions of grandeur my friend. Fried and newcombe= upton/Simmons in most fans view. Both have cy young ceilings. We would want Sanchez and judge for that package plus. Fried newcombe and allard might get us Chris Sale. McCann is only an option if the stripes want salary relief and a high floor lotto ticket… and the yanks don’t care about money so not happening.
Wishful thinking Sling Blade, lol! There is NO WAY that Atlanta gives up Fried and Newcomb for an over-the-hill/overpaid/declining 33 year old DH/catcher who can only catch half the year while serving as a DH the other half!
Slider 32, that would be stupid, you must be a Yankee fan because a braves fan knows better than that
He is a Yankees fan. He has been suggesting that trade for a while now
Very easy offseason bring back Kelly Johnson & Frenchy. Sign Jason Castro, keep Collmenter and trade Mallex, Newcombe, Jace, Vizzy & Blair for Chris Sale. Also take a flier on Henderson Alverez. Although hurt his best season came with Chuck Hernandez so it wouldn’t hurt or cost much to rebuild him.
1. Inciarte CF
2. Garcia/Ruiz 3B platoon
3. Freeman 1B
4. Kemp LF
5. Markakis RF
6. Swanson SS
7. Castro/Flowers C
Collmenter holds the spot til Wiegel is ready. The final roster spot fluctuates between Shae Simmons, Chase, Perez, Gant or Whalen
if you think that would get chris sale, you are as delusional as the yankees fan who thought McCann would fetch Newcomb and Fried.
any conversation for Chris Sale starts with Dansby Swanson and probably includes two or three of Allard, Anderson, Soroka, Fried, or Touki.
Personally, I don’t see any way the Sox move Sale to ATL without Dansby as the headliner. And then some.
Which is to say: I essentially agree with this, but I don’t think that’s just a starting point — I think that’s around where Chicago would actually be interested. Market for Sale will be quite robust this winter, and he’s no certainty to be traded.
Jeff i absolutely agree with you in that there is no way ATL would go to the price chicago would want. But hypothetically,would an offer of Swanson, Allard, and Soroka get it done?
Just to clarify, i do not want that to happen at all, just wondering about value.
Now I look at this differently (and admittedly I don’t have the knowledge of Jeff for sure) but IF the White Sox decide to trade Sale then they are probably looking at a wholesale tear down (which would be surprising). If that is the case then they may not want Swanson (especially since the have their own 23 year old SS, who is obviously not as highly thought of as Swanson). I could see them going along the lines of Albies, Newcomb, Allard, Smith, and Sims. That would be several young controllable players who would should impact their team in two years if they continue to progress. Several of those should be in the bigs (if not all of them) by the end of 2017 and Mallex Smith is already there.
From a Braves point of view I would NOT want that trade (and I hate putting all my eggs in one basket) but I think that would be the type of package that the White Sox would be looking for. A trade that should impact several needs in time.
Again I don’t want it to happen, and I don’t see it happening, but I think it would take a huge deal to get Sale. One of those (like the Teixiera deal) that you regret later.
And I know that almost any team would *want* a player like Swanson. I was saying that he didn’t necessarily have to be the headliner.
That’s a reasonable response. Your hypothetical package has a ton of talent, a good piece of it near the majors, so maybe something like that is plausible. But even if CWS does do some kind of timeline-tweaking, I don’t think they’ll punt too far into the future. Swanson not only has the pedigree/talent/control, but has shown he can hit in the majors, which means something.
It is probably too strong to say Swanson would have to be in any Sale deal, but if he wasn’t, it would involve a major farm dump that would be implausible in its own right. Realistically, I don’t see these teams matching up.
Impossible to say — would depend on CWS view on these players. And their overall plan. In terms of value … I don’t know. Dansby is a really nice asset, but he doesn’t seem to be a super high ceiling guy. And the pitchers are so young. Maybe White Sox would hold out for someone with real superstar potential, and want the package to be more focused toward the near term?
With the year he had, maybe. The problem with this trade proposal is there are no defined pieces coming back. I would think if you added in Folty you’d be a lot closer. Sox need someone that can play everyday back.
Swanson/Allard/Soroka/Folty for Sale and their 15th prospect might work
Hey dansby fried touki and soroka for sale sounds reasonable for both sides… y’all mind taking markakis if we throw in Ramirez so we can sign wieters?
Stevenbravenation, I do like your thinking. I like Chris Sale alot. And don’t forget Sale and the White Sox had issues this year, 1st with Adam Laroche leaving, and then when he burnt the jerseys and got supended. Now I know the White Sox aren’t stupid, but they might be willing to part with him on a decent deal without the Braves being robbed. And what about Ivan Nova, isn’t he available?
Dookie Howser, MD
This is Tony LaRussa posting right? Terrible valuation of prospects (very much overvalued this time) and then trying to be too clever by batting the pitcher 8th.
Swanson will be in the 2 hole. Freeman and kemp will rack up some Rbis next year. The braves will score plenty of runs next season. We need a true #1 and a #3 starter and the braves will have a good chance at the playoffs next year.
My problem with sale is you are betting what ever potential young studs that they choose that you are going to make it to the WS and Win before the end of the 2019 off season….as well as they have done in the rebuild we have not even turned the corner yet. They still have to produce a winning season…they still have lots of milestones to reach before thinking about trading away the kinda of talent it would take to land Chris Sale…this kind of trade is a win now trade and guts your farm system for years to come….this style of trade could land the Braves in starting another rebuild of the Minor League system in 3 years.
For a rebuilding team, the Braves are in a decent position. They won’t win next year, but they have enough of a base and enough good young players to build around and add onto over the next few years. It won’t be too long before they’re back to contention.
But one plea to Braves fans…
Yes, you got an absolute steal with the Shelby Miller trade. Understand that the return you got for him was *not* at all typical, and *not* at all what you should expect moving forward in similar trades. It was a massive, massive overpay by the Diamondbacks. It was a gift.
I say this because over the course of this year, I’ve seen dozens of comments from Braves fans here who have a skewed, seemingly delusional opinion of their own player’s worth on the trade market, and assume that such insanely lopsided trades are going to be par for the course. No, Teheran was never going to get you back a top-10 prospect (let along multiple such prospects), nor should he, nor will he in the future. No, you’re not going to trade for a player like Chris Sale without including your own best prospect in the return package. No, you’re not going to trade for Mike Trout… period.
You were incredibly fortunate to be on the receiving end of the dumbest trade of the past 5 years. Be happy about it. It’s not going to happen again.
Most fans skew their players trade value because they constantly hear how good the players can be and believe that’s the norm.
The reason Braves fans have been so vocal is because we are looking to deal and are trying to make a trade to fit perfectly in line with getting back to contention.
You are completely right, but it’s not just Braves fans. We just may be the majority at the moment when it comes to trade proposals
You are correct which is why in my proposal I wanted to emphasize that ANY deal for Sale would in the long run most likely be looked at with regret. It would likely take a massive amount of near ready talent to get him even if the White Sox decided to punt on 2017/18. I do NOT want the Braves to go that route because I feel that it isn’t to the overall betterment of the long term health of the club. Yes it would definitely help the big club record wise for 2017, but I’m not sure that would be enough to solidify a playoff spot (especially if you have to subtract any notable player off the major league roster …Swanson or Folty for example).
Look dude….you simply ARE NOT comprehending the value of pitching (especially quality starting pitching) on The Market! It’s a SELLER’s MARKET right now! True, The Braves got a huge haul for Shelby Miller. However, if Miller had pitched in 2016 the way he pitched in 2015, it would not have looked so bad!
People like you keep harping on ‘a fair trade’! The Braves ARE NOT desperate to trade Teheran.
Julio Teheran was one top flight starter who would have been PERFECT for either The Astros or Boston . If Houston or Boston had acquired him at The Trade Deadline…the rest of his 2016 salary would have been a prorated portion of $3.3 mil,…then owed $6.3 mil in 2017, $8 mil in 2018, $11 mil in 2019 and a team option of $12 mil in 2020.
Teheran is only 25 years old….has a track record of staying healthy, pitching 200 innings a year, doesn’t walk very many hitters, has a good pickoff move, gives up less than a hit per inning, has a career ERA of 3.39 with a record of 47-40 (despite playing on a Braves team the past two years who have scored VERY FEW RUNS for him).
With the price of pitching SKYROCKETING (you have BUMS out there going to get $15-$20 mil a year……just wait until the 2018 offseason when you’ll see Price, Kershaw and Greinke getting $40 mil a year plus)….Julio Teheran and his contract is a STEAL OF A DEAL.
Houston or Boston could have had Teheran, not only for the stretch run in 2016, but also for his pitching prime years (25-29) for a COMBINED price of $39 mil over 4 1/2 years!
While Cleveland and Chicago BOTH gave up some of their best prospects to acquire Miller and Chapman (by the way, how did those two trades turn out?)…teams like Houston and Boston decided to shop at Wal-Mart in order to acquire pitching. How did that work out, lol?
A team can either lament the cost pitching and forget about being serious contenders for a World Series…..or they can decide to do something about it by either drafting starting pitching/developing it…OR…they can use their prospects and trade for a quality starting pitching.
While Teheran may not be the class of Sale/Kershaw…..the value of Teheran DRASTICALLY INCREASES due to his combination of age, health, durability, eating innings AND cheap contract (in relation to what he would cost if he was a free agent)..
I’m a diehard Braves fan who is more than happy to see My Braves KEEP Teheran. We can build our rotation around him for the next 4 years! He’s cheap (just imagine what starting pitching will cost in 2020…when we face a ‘decision’ on whether to exercise his $12 mil team option, lol). We are in no hurry to trade Teheran.
However, given that this is a Seller’s Market (with Jose Fernandez passing away….that is one less arm on The Market that presented a more talented yet expensive alternative for teams seeking pitching to consider….also, there’s serious doubt that The White Sox are going to trade either Sale or Quintera)…The Braves would be FOOLS to not look into accepting a King’s Ransom for Teheran.
Regarding Houston, I would be willing to trade Teheran for a package of Alex Bregman, Kyle Tucker, (either Fracisco Martes, David Paulino, Forrest Whitley OR Joe Musgrave) and Daz Cameron.
I know, most Houston fans would vilify this proposed 4 for 1 trade, feeling that it is TOO MUCH to give up for Julio Teheran. However prospects are just that, prospects. They have yet to develop/show that they are sure things. However Julio Teheran is a legit #1/#2 starting pitcher whose young, durable, under a cheap contract until 2020. In today’s market…that aint coming cheap!
Either pay the cost of admission…or watch October baseball on tv! Boston had a team that was PRIMED to seriously contend for a World Series this year. Yet they shopped at Wal-Mart (trading for with San Diego for Pomeranz) instead of giving up the likes of Moncada, Bentinendi, Espinoza and Devers for Teheran (I know, another pricey haul).
Many of you will clamor for a ‘fair trade’. Fair? Fair has nothing to do with it. Atlanta DOES NOT need to trade Teheran! Again, we are perfectly ok with keeping Teheran AND his cheap contract for the next 4 years and build our rotation around him. However, both Houston and Boston match up well with The Braves when it comes to both having prospects near ready that The Braves need (3rd base, outfield and a pitcher…because while The Braves already are deep in talented pitchers in The Minors, they are in the lower Minors). While trading Teheran would hurt our chances on being competitive in 2017 and in 2018 (regardless, we are far from ‘being one player away’ from being serious contenders)….either of the above trades would accelerate our long term plans to compete because those talented players we’d receive in return would hopefully fill positions/produce at levels I anticipate for the next 10-15 years.
Atlanta is not ready to compete for a World Series in either 2017 or 2018. However both Houston and Boston are. Acquiring a top flight, young, cheap starting pitcher like a Julio Teheran would help SOLIDIFY both rotation (on the cheap financial wise)….making it easier to allocate precious payroll dollars into filling other areas of need! However, either team wants to take the next step in seriously competing for a World Series in 2017 and/or 2018…then both have to be willing to sacrifice part of the future to do it!
Rip me all you want..but at the end of the day, neither Boston nor Houston be any closer to competing for a World Series…if all they do is complain about the cost and continue shopping at “Wal-Mart’ desperately hoping that ‘some bargain’ will turn into gold, lol!
Like it or not, The Braves have some serious leverage regarding Julio Teheran (just wait til you see what rumors fly out of The Winter Meetings in early December). This year’s pickings on The Free Agent Market is simply ATROCIOUS (when a 36 year old Rich Hill, whose never pitched over 100 innings in a season, is the prime choice, you know it’s ‘SLIM PICKINGS’, lol). We got a huge haul for Shelby Miller last year….and Julio Teheran is simply better, more durable and cheaper than Miller! I’m confident that our GM will get a huge haul for Teheran…or keep him if “The Price Isn’t Right’, lol.
I cant help but laugh at people like you calling Atlanta fans ‘delusional’…when in fact people like you are hella delusional if you think that our GM, with the leverage he has, would ever consider trading Teheran for anything other than a King’s Ramsom! I’d love to hear how you really can sell how it would make sense for Atlanta to make what you think is ‘a fair trade’ regarding Teheran! My position is that ‘a fair trade’ DOES NOTHING to improve The Braves. All things being equal….keeping Teheran is a NO BRAINER! Either overwhelm us…or we we keep Teheran for the next 4 years, building our rotation around him!
Well I had another well-thought-out comment, but the app froze. I am not trying again.
We should trade for one of boston’s young catchers.
Honestly I’m fine with where we are right now. I think we should sign a veteran pitcher for 3/33 and trade for a catcher like Norris and go into the season willing to address issues at a moments notice. Braves could trade for an ace at the trade deadline if they are in it and sign a pitcher next year in a better market if not.
I know it’s not what they say will happen or what we want moving into the new stadium, but it’s probably for the best
Who are you thinking? Swihart is not a future C and is overvalued. He’s not that much of an upgrade to what we have now, if you believe he’s not a future full-time C. If they went that route they might as well just sign Jason Castro, or any like C that’s not Ramos/Wieters (overpays). Frankly, I’d go with answer E) none of the above, and try and find something else not named McCann. All of these are serious financial or prospect demands for guys with obvious injury issues or inconsistent bats (Castro). I don’t think BOS would trade Sandy Leon after rescuing him.
They should sign Ramos IF he is a steal. Braves can afford with Flower and Recker can cover till Ramos is healed. Ramos is 29 so a 4 year deal wouldnt be overly restrictive. Front load it so when he is older and the back-up he is not overpaid and easier to trade if need be.
Ok if my proposal doesn’t enter the Sale ballpark then would it be good enough to get Archer ?or maybe Ordorizzi ? All I am saying is those are the guys I am willing to move to get a young SP. Really wish we made a play for Moore before San Fran got him
Your grouping of players has value, no doubt, but there’s a reason you picked those guys — all have question marks of various kinds. I just don’t really see that package pulling in a real controllable top of the rotation starter. Odorizzi, sure, I could see that. Not sure it’s worth parting with all those guys for his three arb years, though.
Another CWS pitcher that really worth a mention is José Quintana. I’d go after him without having to put Swanson on the table.
He would be a bit cheaper, but I suspect the price will still be quite high. Bottom line, for me: CWS probably isn’t going to do a full tear-down, and its best assets won’t be parted with unless they are adding cheaper and more controllable talent at multiple positions of need.
Real question in any scenario with the Braves would be what the Sox think of ATL’s specific assets, which we just don’t know. But I still have a hard time envisioning the Braves going this route. As I mentioned in the post, the team has signaled it isn’t looking to do this kind of deal.
Dookie Howser, MD
Another question for the Braves: Do they really think that they can compete in 2017? I know Sale (and Quintana & Archer) has a couple of years of control, but if they are going to waste the first 1-2 years of him by not sniffing the playoffs, what’s the point in trading away those other assets that may be ready by the time they could realistically compete?
Personally, I don’t think that the Braves are an Ace away from competing. They have lots of other holes to fill, and bring Sale or another top flight SP is going to create more holes than it fills.
Swanson isn’t on the table for Sale, or anyone else for that matter. Swanson should be the Braves SS for the next 10 yrs.
White sox were demanding Bradley Jr + for either Sale or Quintana. The Braves dont have a player with that kinda of hype in the OF. White Sox were said to be hunting a top OF bat plus several top tier pitching prospects. I dont think the Braves have what the Sox want other than the pitching side of it.
Don’t think the cubs will pick up Hammel’s option?
I do think they will. I meant via trade — as Phils did last year — but I can see how that wasn’t clear. I tightened it up.
I guess I’m confused why you think the cubs would trade Hammel then? Who are you projecting as their 5th starter?
Ok so do you think it’s better to trade some lower level prospects for a couple veteran high priced arms such as Ervin Santana or Ian Kennedy if their teams would be willing to eat some of the contracts ? This way we keep the prospects and let them develop at a slower pace.
I don’t care about the money, I just care about how long the contract is. Braves should sign a stop-gap pitcher so they can grab a #2 off free agency
Maybe, but I also don’t know that I see the Twins and Royals kicking in cash for guys who were pretty solid — unless it’s a matter of facilitating an increase in the prospect return. I think their view would be that these pitchers are fairly priced, especially given that there’s so little available in free agency
And we have the money so I wouldn’t be opposed to Santana but I would still want money kicked in for Kennedy. Let me ask this does anybody think Sonny Gray becomes available ? Or what realistic targets does anybody think could be made available.
Teheran is not a true number 1 and we probably won’t have one until one develops. Maybe Allard, Toki or Newcombe. But we do have the prospects to get anybody Coppy wants that is made available.
It just becomes a matter of who is gonna be made available. Trade for Santana and sign Nova ????
How about going after hill with all the spending money. Then make a trade for a number 3 starter
Braves should trade Markakis back to Orioles for Ubaldo Jiminez. Then sign Weiters for 4 years.
That would be a trade i can live with but rather them try to land a number1 starter in rich hill then see what they have left for the catcher. I think if we had to deal with flowers for another year that wouldnt hurt to bad. Top picther has to be the number one goal i think.
weiters hasnt been decent since 2012.
I say we target Sonny Gray, but that’s just me. Start the package around Newcomb and Vizcaino and go from there. Vizcaino is an easy replace, especially with this years reliever market. We say we have money to spend, this is one way to do it. Vizcaino still has decent trade value to him with all the control left, can easily flip him for some kind of SP and replace him via the free agents.
would be surprised if the braves do all this but it’s seriously their best shot at getting a quality SP without really creating any holes since it should be an easy fix with the RP’s available to replace him
That would be a great second option if u get out bid for hill. To me hill is the top picther out there that can help the braves make the playoffs. Which i think can happen with a number 1 starter the braves with kemp i think will score more just need the picthing
Also if we managed to swing Vogt in whatever deal we came up with it would kill two birds with one stone this offseason
and the braves would have no more farm system
Trade Vizcaino to the Rockies for Murphy. Sign Nova & trade for Ervin Santana.
although coaching these days dont matter too much — look at the dodgers, different manager, same result. the article could have at least mentioned snitke’rs return or washingtons hire as 3b coach.
Trade with Royals::::::::::::::::::::::::::Markakis and Ellis for Soria and Dozier,
I’m a diehard Braves fan who wants to see us build a team that has the potential to have a run similar to what we had from 1991-2005. In order to do that, you have to have a PLETHORA of talented prospects AT ALL LEVELS of The Minors flowing through each and every year! Throughout the 90’s, The Braves had several waves of top prospects flowing through. You don’t have that…by trading 3 or 4 prospects in the varying Chris Sale type proposed trades filling blogs like this…ESPECIALLY when The Braves are far from being one player away from making a serious run at a World Series!
While the past two seasons have been tough to watch….it wasn’t a total waste! We have drafted/traded EXTREMELY WELL the past two years! Our Minor League System is well stocked…and we have rid ourselves of all prior bad Major League contracts! Our payroll/Minor Leagues Systems are both in great shape!
While I encourage our GM to keep trying to find ‘diamonds in the rough’ type players to trade for/sign as a free agent, as well as any players like Matt Kemp (productive, yet pricey players that a team may be looking to dump who has only one or two years left on their contract, who can fill a void YET not block any prospects who show they are ready in the next year or two)…….I DO NOT want to see our GM trade any of our valued prospects!
If we trust our scouts/have the right coaches employed who can teach/develop our prospects…I say lets keep them and enjoy watching them work their way up The System! I feel that we have a chance to pick and choose which great arms should be in the starting rotation…and which ones will be better off in the bullpen! It would be fantastic to have a Mets-like rotation of studs making The Major League minimum….yet if anyone gets hurt, you have arms waiting in the wings at Triple A ready to take their place in the rotation/bullpen! It is impossible to have depth if you start trading them away for, just because some so-called fans have a pipe dream of seeing us compete for a playoff spot!
I’d love to see us draft even more pitching early in The 2017 Draft (the more arms the merrier). While we have a number of talented pitching prospects, reality dictates that you simply cannot predict which ones will truly make it. That’s why having numbers is so important!
In the meantime, Coppy has done a great job of rebuilding this team! I feel that our offense showed enough that we should stay put with the line-up we have to begin the 2017 season…the only exception being that if Ozzie Albies shows in Spring Training that he’s healthy and can hit….he’d be our Short Stop (Jace Peterson would be one of our super subs). Also, I’d move Dansby Swanson up to the #2 hole of the batting order (he’s perfect for that spot of the order) and move Adonis Garcia to the #6 spot (his power hitting behind Markakis, if we keep him, which I think we should because for $10.5 mil….where are we going to find someone who can knock in over 90 RBIs?).
That would be a decent line that has lefty-righty alternating throughout the line-up. Good balance!
It’s tough to predict the pitching behind Teheran and Folty. To be honest, while I totally love Teheran as our ace for the next 4 years…if a team were to OVERWHELM us with a trade offer for Teheran….Coppy would be a fool to not listen! Losing Teheran would put a serious crimp in our ability to compete the next few years (his combination of age, ability, cheap contract over the next 4 years would be a HUGE VOID)……that’s why it would have to be a King’s Ransom type trade for it to make it worth it for Coppy to consider it! However, barring a King’s Ransom type of trade for Teheran…..then I’d say let Coppy work his magic when it comes to acquiring ‘diamonds in the rough’ type pitchers that don’t cost any prospects AND allow the guys we have who are ready to compete in Spring Training for spots in the rotation for #3, #4 and #5)!
Wisler, Blair, Collmenter, Wooten, Gant, Jenkins, etc. (along with whoever else Coppy acquires/signs) will hopefully rise up and show that they can exceed expectations. If not, we’ll struggle in 2017. I’m ok with that….as long as our talented Minor Leaguers work their way up the system as expected…with the hope that one or two of them will be ready in 2018 to start the 1st of many waves of talented prospects pushing to make our roster and compete for a World Series! If we don’t make any stupid free agent signing before the 2018 offseason…then we’ll have PLENTY OF MONEY to sign a position player or two to fill any holes should our position player prospects (of which we have far fewer of than pitching prospects) not rise up! I feel that it’s more prudent to spend free agent dollars on position players..than on way to expensive starting pitching free agents! Going into the 2019 season….our pitching staff will be RIDICULOUSLY young/talented/cheap…IF Coppy stays the course and resist the temptation to foolishly trade away our talented Minor League prospects for a Pipe Dream of making a run to the playoffs in 2017!
As a fellow alum of his high school, bring R. A. Dickey back to the South for a year or two.