Tonight represented the end of the illustrious career of Red Sox slugger David Ortiz, as Boston was knocked out by the Indians in a sweep. The 40-year-old’s twentieth season in the majors was one of his best, as he led the league in slugging percentage and OPS (with a .315/.401/.620 batting line) while knocking 38 long balls in 626 plate appearances. Despite the team’s disappointing end to the year, the Fenway Faithful stayed on hand long after the game for one final in-uniform curtain call. MLBTR offers its congratulations to a player who was one of the greatest designated hitters ever to suit up. All told, he racked up over 10,000 MLB plate appearances with a monster .286/.380/.552 slash line and 541 home runs — 17th most in major league history.
As the Hall of Fame debate begins in earnest on Ortiz, here’s more from around the game:
- MLB commissioner Rob Manfred expressed optimism that there will be a positive resolution in “relatively short order” on the Athletics’ quest for a new park, as John Shea of the San Francisco Chronicle (in a tweet) and Joe Stiglich of SportsNet California (Twitter links) were among those to report. Nothing seems to be imminent — Manfred suggested that something will come together within the next year — but it nevertheless seems that there’s some forward progress. He suggested that there are still several potential sites being explored in Oakland, with mayor Libby Schaaf having “made it clear to [Manfred] that baseball is her first priority.”
- Bob Dutton of the Tacoma News Tribune takes a long look at the Mariners’ many roster decisions this winter. Among other things, he notes that Seattle is open to bringing back Drew Storen, though the sense is that the reliever will look for a late-inning opportunity elsewhere. He also breaks down the decisions on many arbitration-eligible relievers; you can find their projected arb salaries right here. In the field, Dae-ho Lee could be retained as a righty option at first, but that’s no certainty. And one of the biggest questions is at short; Dutton notes that the club intends to look into a veteran option after a tough year for Ketel Marte.
- The Orioles may face a call on young first baseman Trey Mancini, Roch Kubatko of MASNsports.com explains. He had a solid season in the upper minors, but swatted three long balls in just five games of major league action late in the year. Some might suggest that the O’s shift Chris Davis to right field, but Kubatko suggests that’s not a likely outcome. And while Mancini could get a look there, the club hasn’t seemed optimistic about such a move. Instead, perhaps, he’ll more likely push for a spot in the DH mix — but could end up back at Triple-A, at least to start the year.
- Matt Harvey remains a wild card for the Mets after undergoing surgery to help alleviate thoracic outlet syndrome, but there’s a bit of good news on that front. Harvey is already able to throw, as he posted to his personal Instagram account. His specific timeline remains unclear, but that would seem to suggest that he’ll be ready for a full spring.
vote bonds in!
If you are saying.Bonds before Ortiz absolutely. No comparison between the two–Bonds is inner circle on performance, probably top three
There are people who will argue that because Ortiz was a nice guy that he deserves to be in the hall, regardless of the alleged steroid use. The same people might say Bonds doesn’t get in because of not being a nice guy?
This is a topic that is questionable for me. If baseball is allowing great players who cheat into the hall, because of character, why aren’t more cheaters in? Why is Ty Cobb, who arguably was a jerk, in the hall? Baseball has yet to define specific reasons of why someone deserves to be or not. One could also argue, and I am not necessarily one of them, that Ken Griffey Jr doesn’t belong in the hall. He was in that epic home run race with Sosa and McGwire up until the last month of the season. Was he always “clean”? I think Griffey Jr, who always seemed clean to me , might get a pass because of his character if he had cheated?
I think Selig might have escaped, what should of been his call, on what to do with this. The mystery about these situations needs a resolution soon. I’m tired of wondering if I guy like Ortiz will get dangled out there as a possible candidate for the hall. I should know the day he retires what the likelihood is and more importantly, why or why not.
it seems as if this induction thing has turned into a popularity contest. something’s gotta change as you said.
I’m not sure how anyone could argue against Ken Griffey Jr. being in the HoF. Also, there are plenty of players who have been immensely likable but didn’t have the numbers to make the Hall and they weren’t voted in.
Regarding Bonds, he was a lock for the HoF pre-steroids. No question. In addition to being nasty, I think he didn’t get a pass because he didn’t stop using, didn’t show any remorse and took/tarnished the most storied crown in sports when it was all said and done.
I’m not opposed to Ortiz being in the HoF. But you can’t keep guys like Bonds out if Papi is in.
The Hall of Fame has nothing to do with MLB or the commissioner. The voters have shown time and time again they have their own agenda and they’re not interested in just voting in the best players.
I think they all ought to be in there, bonds, rose, shoeless joe… they are all part of the history of baseball
I am not one to argue that Griffey Jr. should not be in the hall, but I think our judgment of him might be clouded because who didn’t like Ken Griffey Jr.? There is the spike in his homers, during the height of the steroid era, which could lead one to make that case? How does someone who hits 20 homers consistently start hitting 45, 47, 56 (twice) and then, when the heat starts getting turned on about steroid use, the performance goes back down to the 20’s? I am not saying this was the case with him. He was also playing in his prime at that time.
most of your favorite football players were and mostly still are full of steroids.
as i said, a popularity contest.
You could make the case that anyone used in the 1990’s. Some PEDs focus on fast twitch muscle fibers and don’t make you bulky. But The Kid was a known quantity coming into the league. He was basically Bryce Harper before Bryce Harper, but on top of the hype and massive outperformance of peers he had family pedigree.
In terms of his decline, that happens to everyone. Did he have a fast fall-off? Sure. From what I remember reading…is that he tried andro, when it was legal, and that’s why he put on weight toward the latter part of his career and the weight ultimately caused or contributed to some of his injury woes. Pretty sure i read that in Pearlman’s “Love Me, Hate Me: Barry Bonds…” several years ago but don’t quote me on that.
But Ortiz isn’t a “nice guy” to everyone. There are many media types with whom he has clashed over the years, and the spectre of PED allegations will always be over his head. He’s not a lock, by any means.
Well written @guinesspelican. The reality is that this is not a simple issue unless you go with “innocent until proven guilty” as opposed to “guilt by association”. Honestly I don’t know, I go back and forth on this and have no idea what the answer is. I think most people agree that it shouldn’t be a popularity contest though.
Palmeiro was a “Nice Guy!”
(He just wagged a finger!)
But he is not getting in.
I think Ortiz’s “steroid” allegations were no where near the chaos or circus that Bonds allegations were. Plus Bonds tried to duck and hide.
Why Bonds could not just step up to the podium and say.
I Barry Lamar Bonds stand before you today to tell you all. I cheated the game. I let down the kids who look up to me, my family, my friends, my godfather and my retired MLB player father.
I am sorry I stuck a needle in my ass and put “steroid cream” on (new one for me!)
But my Big Ass head does not lie!
I am sorry!
ortiz’s head looks surely bigger than bonds’s.
I agree with your assessment of innocence vs guilt. Unfortunately, we have lawyers that can be bought to prove our innocence even if we are not? Did Clemons ever get charged? Assuming he didn’t, do you think the consensus is that he belongs in the hall?
Where are you getting this info? Bonds was one of the few who wasn’t proven, whether people believe it or not, also remember before 2003 it wasn’t against MLB regulations. No doubt that Bonds isn’t in because he was unliked. I think he needs in, its taking too long. Im also still upset about Pete Rose. The hall of fame needs these players they are an important part of baseball history. David Ortiz no doubt needs to be in. Best DH on terms of consistency and clutch. He really came through in the playoffs so many times.
Man you hold grudges if you’re still upset about Rose! That was so 30 years ago! It’s 2016 just in case you didn’t know! Lol
You’re completely forgetting Griffey’s age. He “broke out” at age 23. Yeah, it’s totally possible that there may have been steroids involved, but it’s actually not surprising at all for a player to improve from say, age 22 to age 23 or 24. If you look at his seasons by age, you realize he was 20 playing Major League baseball and hitting 20+ dingers. It’s not surprising at all for the same guy to hit 40 by age 24…
Bonds was a cheater, he just stubbornly has never admitted to it. He doesn’t deserve it.
Bonds was also one of the best baseball players ever, even before he accidentally realized he was putting a banned substance on his hands?
So by this rationale someone who has admitted to steroid use, who was good enough stat wise, does deserve to be in the hall? I don’t think that is happening.
guiness is correct IMO. go ahead…vote in Ortiz. But then also vote in McGwire, Bonds, Palmiero, Clemens and ARod. The fact he is a nice guy and Bonds isn’t should not be a factor. Pudge Rodriguez is coming up for eligibility, too. Vote him in…and all the rest have to go in. Junior is in the shrine because he had the numbers and his name was never linked to being juiced.
He’ll never get in…..
Bond’s is a scumbag. He was a scumbag back in his playing days and is a scumbag today. The man was basically fired from the Marlins hitting coach job because he is a…drum roll please…scumbag.
you need a mirror.
I wonder if the O’s would look to trade Mancini? I know it’s a small sample size but he has proven he can hit, with a lot of power, at the major league level and could be a solid 1st baseman for a team with a need at 1st.
5 games is not proof he can hit in the major leagues. His sample size definitely looks good, but its way to small to say he’s proven he can hit at the major league level. Also, I doubt many teams are looking at him like a solid 1st base option based on that sample size. I don’t know what his defensive numbers looks like, or how he even looks defensively, but if he’s someone who is probably going to be stuck at 1B/DH, that’s not exactly an enticing option either.
I was looking at his minor league numbers for fielding since he was only a DH for the O’s and he only made 26 errors in 4 seasons over 3994 innings, I’d have to say that is pretty solid defensive numbers. And for being a rookie, he never looked overmatched at the plate. He squared up almost every ball he hit and he is great against lefties.
Yeah, Ortiz in the HOF = Bonds right? And then we have Clemens who was kinda proven but hmmmm not really. Then Bagwell with zero plus zero proof or allegations who was big and people just assumed. People need to look up Bagwells stats and especially advanced stats. He should have been 1st ballot.
neither bonds or ortiz have tested positive when steroids were against mlb rules. besides, if piazza can go in so should bonds.
Um, so steroids was actually against the rules back then. It has for a long time. Plus, most people think that steroids is cheating. Ortiz did steroids and that is a fact.
yeah but it was never against the rules – it was just a shock to the public when people found out that they were doing it and people like bonds who even if they were knowingly using steroids shouldn’t be penalized any more than you would throw out stats from the juiced and deadball eras – the steroid era was a part of baseball and if you need to qualify that in the hall that is fine but you ought not to just ignore the players like it never hppened
It was always against the rules.
#manypeoplearesaying
No it’s not a fact. That you would like it to be doesn’t make it so. His name was on a list, yes, but the list was not only people who failed steroid tests. So try again. Not “he probably cheated”. Not “I don’t like him”. But actual proof. Just kidding, I know you don’t have any.
Fact!?!? So cool that Ortiz’s doctor is posting on Trade Rumors! LOL!
Just a poll, Ortiz or Edgar Martinez.
Both are ex-Mariners and both had excellent careers. BOTH deserve to be in the HOF!!!
well….Ortiz was signed by Seattle but never played a game in the show for the M’s. It’s like calling Jeff Bagwell a Red Sox.
That’s like saying Anthony Rizzo is a former Red Sox player.
Oh ya!! You are right!! Forgot about that. When he signed. His name was listed as “David Arias!”
When he was traded to the Twins. He informed the team that he preferred to be called
“David Ortiz!”
TRUE HOLLYWOOD STORY!!
………Damn…..now what’s his REAL name???
“The Fenway faithful stayed on hand long after the game” they said about 25,000 fans were there. The stadium holds 37,949 people. This was an exciting playoff game that went down to the last at bat. Ortiz’s farewell was right after the game and more than 10,000 of the “fans” left. Real faithful. This is David Ortiz, it’s a shame he had to see so many empty seats
It was probably 10-15 minutes after the game. He left the field and didn’t come back out until the Indians were done celebrating on the field. There was no way for the fans to know he would come back out.
I like mouthing Boston as much as anyone, but this was a poor attempt.
I tried
You can put a star next to his name
Hmm.. Star next to Rodriquez for flunking tests after they checked for actual performance enhancing drugs, not medical variety and ped’s. star if Canseco and Clemens, should they ever make it, same with Bonds since so many accusers have came forth and fingered them as abusers.
Where is the finger pointing to the 1st list? Other than he is rumored to be on it? Yankee fans who have most of their heroes named? Bahhh…
I’d guess to say Brady Anderson used, one doesn’t go from skinny kid to muscles mcgee over the winter (i witnessed transformation). Ortiz was always large and the numbers never really changed did they?
Jealousy. Then if Giambi, rodriquez had juiced and led to so much for my team (victory wise) i’d maybe be trying to point fingers elsewhere also.
I’ve been reading your comments a long time, and most of them reflect a real knowledge of the game and some perspective. This one goes off the reservation quite a bit. You want Oritz in, so, in him, it’s either a rumor, something medical, or something peddled by Yankee’s fan (no other baseball fans ever mention the failed test). Everyone else juiced, Big Papi was always big.
Makes me wonder if Carl Yastrzemski was juiced 50 years ago. Carl was a good hitter, but averaged about 17 HR’s a year his first five years in MLB. IN 1967, he won the triple crown hitting 44HR’s and the MVP.
Yaz never made it fully back from torn tendon sheath either. It could be a career ending disaster in those times, just like rotator problems and many issues fairly often solved now.
I have posted here (and other places) regarding Yaz’s issues with his tendon sheath that summer of ’72 and how he tried to play thru it far too long.
Forget not Yaz was not a big man. Most standing next to him were taller and many larger than he, just that Yaz knew how to use the leverage once gained (pre injury) of that very high bat which was nearly held above his head, before bringing down to gain power and let go.
It was easy to spot his post injury posture, even pre Hriniak mode used by Yaz.. He no longer could pre load with any power and held the bat far lower, like with the knob at chest level
Today’s medicine? He gets fixed, then? He struggles totally for a cpl of years before sort of healing and then 2 fair seasons and then injuring his back during the ’75WS team and few more struggles.
Some comments are worth hitting the delete button or simply SPIT ON YOUR DEVICE!!
“Yaz on Steroids!”
Ladies and Gentlemen!
Boys and Girls of all ages.
I currently have breaking news to report.
“Babe Ruth has been caught cheating the game.
His fat ass was taking steroids!”
Let’s stick to reality and what’s in front of us.
A Yaz allegation was never one of them.
Angels should sell high on Cron and try to trade him for Mancini
cron also has a few more years of control. and he is getting definitely better at the plate and at defense. mancini, though with wonderful name played all but 5 games.
Mancini just came up, so he has another 6 yrs of control. Angels could ask for another piece if they want to
cron still has 4 years of control left. since angels will soon be competing i’d rather keep cron and watch him bloom.
Angels will soon be competing?
How do you figure that? The Angels are on the verge of committing to a full-out rebuild.
They’ve been to the postseason once in the past seven years. They finished seven games below .500 this year. And most importantly, they arguably have the worst farm system in all of baseball.
The only way they’ll be competing in a few years is if Los Angeles Albert Pujols magically returns to St. Louis Albert Pujols and Mike Trout can clone himself.
the only reason for angels struggle this season was injuries to starting pitchers. any team with that many injuries to rotation cannot sustain winning. even dodgers with so many pitchers struggled when their top starters were injured.
Another “Boom Boom Mancini!”
For you young kids on here.
Look it up online.
Hint – “Boxer”
I don’t follow the Angels at all but isn’t Cron also a 1st baseman? The O’s have Davis for the next 6 years so they would have no reason to accept this trade. That would just add unnecessary money to their payroll.
Cron I believe is still getting league minimum. He can take Trumbo or Alvarez’s spot.
That would make sense but he is still a low OBP guy and the O’s said they would like to try to improve their OBP with any additions this year. If the O’s made any deal with the Angels I hope it would be for Calhoun. He’s a good OFer that has a good bat, is lefty, and has a pretty decent OBP. All of which the O’s need.
Don’t think Calhoun will be traded but I see what you like about him. Very solid player on control for several years
Weren’t there rumors around the trade deadline that the Angels might consider dealing him in the offseason? Maybe I’m thinking of someone else.
kole has 3 years of control left.
The orioles don’t have a DH. Why can’t they move Davis to the DH spot because he is a pretty useless fielder and keep Mancini at first?
They shouldve never signed David. Duquette is overrated af
Davis I mean
It’s pretty funny that you think Davis is a useless fielder. He only has 33 errors at first base in his career and is considered one of the better defensive first baseman.
His fielding is declining, he had 10 errors at 1B this year at the easiest defensive position
Yeah I seen that but I think part of the reason was he was playing through a hand injury all year. They also think it led to his bad hitting year.
His range isn’t that good. Defense is more than just errors
I watch almost all of their games and his range looks awfully good to me. All those extra numbers don’t mean a thing, he makes all the necessary plays.
Yes, but his bat would be better in a DH role
DH and 1B are expected to produce at roughly the same output.
That’s what’s wrong though. I’d rather have a guy who makes more errors but covers more ground than a guy who can only make routine plays. That’s why machado is so good defensively
You should check out Davis’ fielding numbers. Maybe not elite but certainly not useless! He could easily be in the gold glove discussion.
I am calling it. Ortiz will be a first ballot HOFer with at least 85 percent. As far as if he is deserving due to steroids or whatever, I am not taking a stance.
I think that the fact he is a DH will keep him from being first ballot and getting to that percentage.
That’s a pretty bold prediction. I say it depends on how many of the current guys still on the ballot are left. I say he misses out first ballot and gets maybe 55-60%. Perhaps he will get it one day.
Writers are wildly obsessed with Ortiz and Boston. Heck the TBS announcers last night were actively rooting for the Red Sox in the 7th-8th-9th innings.
Nothing to do with him will shock me.
ron darling is simply the worst. even worse than joe buck!
Ron Darling at least has the decency to only subject us to his awfulness in a single sport. Joe Buck insists on invading our homes 10 months out of the year.
ha ha!
Ortiz good guy, Bonds, Clemens bad guy. All things aside Clemens and Bonds were guaranteed first ballot HOFers before their PED escapades and denials so shame on them for disrespecting their own careers. The next culprit is “”Boob”” Selig as commissioner he should have known about the PED situation, but he and his fellow owners looked the other way to capitalize on the money rolling in. If he knew he was complicite as a getaway driver from a bank job, if he didn’t he was derelict in his duty to the game. As such his nomination to HOF should be equally invalid as any PED athlete.
It is simply disgusting that the MLB has no care to help the Oakland A’s establish themselves in the Bay Area. It is as if the MLB is completely complicit with the San Francisco Giants taking over the area.
You are so spot on! Giant’s ownership has a lot of power concerning A’s matters. They blocked the A’s move to San Jose, where the only people who benefited from that were the Giant’s ownership. With the A’s stuck in Oakland there will always be lower payrolls, and that is just what the Giant’s want. They never want the A’s to get a top ten payroll and regularly compete for customers’ dollars, that’s bad for their business. They may get a stadium somewhere where people would like to stay after the game and get dinner somewhere nice. Stay in Oakland, get a new stadium, and maybe your payroll will go to 20th from 28th. In that case, fans will do like they do now,….go to a game and then get the hell out of town. Heck, even I do that. Oakland is just not a warm and fuzzy place. You would think the players’ union would want the A’s to go to a market like San Jose where a larger payroll would include larger pay raises for the players. Furthermore, other owners would benefit with less revenue sharing to the A’s, or maybe even the A’s would be revenue sharing payers! But no……… By the way, I am from the north bay and I would personally like the A’s to stay in Oakland, But first and foremost, I would like to see what the A’s could achieve with a good budget.
There are literally more people living in San Jose than Oakland and SF combined.
mayor Libby Schaaf having “made it clear to [Manfred] that baseball is her first priority.”
I love baseball, but this mayor has her priorities screwed up.
Context: she was talking about local sports aka the Raiders – who sound like they are on their way out.
There is no evidence that Ken Griffey Jr was anything but clean. It is idiotic for anyone to suggest that.
If he played 150+ games every year of his 30’s, then that would be suspicious, but he literally broke down like a non-user, so, what a wildly dumb thing to say. That swing was perfect.