4:40pm: It may not even be that realistic for the Tigers to match up with the Dodgers, given that Kinsler can decline a trade to them and would demand an extension to do so.
Los Angeles is obviously looking in other places for a second baseman, and Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports notes that they have made contact with the Twins on Brian Dozier — who’d also be a quality, right-handed bat who comes with two years of control.
2:52pm: The Tigers and Dodgers have held some degree of trade talks regarding Detroit second baseman Ian Kinsler, reports MLB Network’s Jon Morosi (Twitter links). The connection is an obvious on-paper fit, considering Detroit’s stated desire to pare down payroll and get younger as well as the Dodgers’ lack of a clear starter at the position. While the Kinsler talks are of course worth noting, it should also be recognized that the Dodgers are casting a wide net as they explore options, and Kinsler has a partial no-trade clause which could potentially impact talks. Anthony Fenech of the Detroit Free Press reports that Kinsler is currently one of four players in whom the Dodgers have interest with regard to their vacancy at second base (Twitter link).
One prospect in whom the Tigers have interest is first baseman/outfielder Cody Bellinger, according to Morosi, who notes that the Tigers are seeking left-handed power. The 21-year-old Bellinger moved from Class-A Advanced to Double-A in 2016 and, in addition to hitting quite well (.263/.359/.484 with 23 homers) slashed his strikeout rate by a considerable margin (27 percent in ’15, 19.7 percent in ’16). Bellinger moved up to Triple-A for the final three games of the season and ripped another three long balls to further add to his impressive year. MLB.com currently ranks him 31st on its list of Top 100 prospects, while Baseball America rated him 24th on their midseason Top 100. Both reports rave about his defense at first base, though MLB.com points out that he’s started games in center field in the minors and has the speed and athleticism to handle a corner spot in the Majors. BA feels there’s 30-homer potential in Bellinger’s bat.
From the Dodgers’ vantage point, Kinsler is among the most natural targets imaginable for their need at second base. The 34-year-old will play next season on a reasonable $11MM salary and comes with a $10MM option for the 2018 season ($5MM buyout). In addition to having multiple years of affordable control on his deal, he’s coming off yet another excellent year in which he batted .288/.348/.484 with 28 homers and 14 stolen bases. Kinsler rated 8.5 runs above average, per Ultimate Zone Rating, and drew an even more favorable mark from Defensive Runs Saved (+12). He also chipped in strong contributions on the basepaths and, perhaps most appealing of all to L.A., mashed opposing left-handers at a .309/.369/.525 clip in 2016. That line, and Kinsler’s career .306/.372/.507 line against southpaws, have to be tantalizing to a Dodgers club that hit just .213/.290/.332 against lefties as a collective unit in 2016 — dismal enough to easily translate to a league-worst 72 wRC+ against left-handed pitchers.
Certainly, though, Dodgers president of baseball ops Andrew Friedman and his staff have alternatives if they deem Detroit’s asking price too high. Friedman & Co. need only look elsewhere in the American League Central to find another highly plausible trade candidate in the form of Brian Dozier, for instance. Cincinnati’s Brandon Phillips may well come at a lower cost if he’s willing to waive his no-trade clause for the chance to play on a contending team, and Philadelphia’s Cesar Hernandez has seen his name surface in trade rumors as well. As far as free agents go, a reunion with Chase Utley seems plausible as well.
Every time I hear of trade rumors for the Dodgers I never buy into them. They always seem to get people excited by having these talks but never pull the trigger on the big trade. Take it with a grain of salt Dodgers fans because I can almost guarantee you that we will not get Kinsler or Dozier as much as we want. I think Kinsler would be a perfect fit too. I just really don’t trust this front office.
Sure, Grandal, Adrian, Thompson & Wood all appeared out of thin air, the Dodgers never make big trades!!! lol
He said “big trade.” Of the four you mention, only one was big (Gonzales) and he came in the previous administration. So, what he said is true, essentially. We hear a lot of talk translating into mostly tinkering and nibbling.
That’s every team around this time, it’s just an asinine thought.
Kinsler would be a good get however if the cost wasn’t high. Other than Pedroia, not another 2b in the game with a better glove and range with both approaching mid 30’s, tells you how shabby glove work is for the position.
Great combo of bat + Glove on a equally good contract who finally got awarded the GG he’s deserved for years.
Hmm, so now you are talking about every team this year so far, instead of the Dodgers over the last two? Nice tap dance. Can you also do the Charleston?
No dancing at all, just defending my answer to really stupid comment made by a supposed Dodgers fan who doesn’t even know his own team’s trade history.
If you don’t think those trades were big, you are simply wrong. Nothing more to say, nothing to dance.
Yeah, I agree. The curtain already came down.
Robinson Cano says hi, johnsilver.
Cano isn’t a great fielder.
Do Grandal, Thompson, and Wood really qualify as “big trades”?
Grandal came over in the Matt Kemp trade, which is one of the best trades the Dodgers will ever make.
Thompson was part of a three-team deal involving Todd Frazier.
Wood came over in a 13-player, three-team deal.
I’d say any one of those constitutes “big” trade, yes. Plus Hill and Reddick this summer. And the near-trade for Chapman last winter, which you can’t blame them for backing out on.
The angst here seems somewhat misplaced. The Dodgers aren’t exactly inactive. Most trades that are rumored just never come to fruition.
Yes, Wood came in a 13 player deal, Grandal was traded for Matt freaking Kemp, and Thompson came in a massive 3 teamer featuring an All-Star player.
I’m pretty sure the OP of this thread was referring to “big trade” as in the Dodgers getting the MLB-ready star side of the deal.
Your obviously forgetting the Dee Gordon/Andrew Heaney blockbuster, Chase Utley, Shane Victorino, Howie Kendrick, BMac, Rich frickin’ Hill…. What more do you want?? I wanna say you rented someone like hunter pence for a month too
Pretty sure Aaron Harang didn’t just fall out of the sky either
I take it we all know about these trades. The question is whether Grandal or Wood are the kinds of players who would be mistaken for big trades targets. Wood, if he ever gets healthy, is a bottom-end starter. Grandal is pretty much a one-dimensional player, and that deal was as much about reducing payroll as improving the team. Rentals to my mind don’t count typically as big trades, and deals that fail to happen for whatever reason surely should not count. I’m not sure it’s angst so much as a growing realization that, despite all the talk of the Dodgers’ resources and depth, Friedman & Co. haven’t made the kind of splashy moves that they seem to be capable of making. Perhaps what they have done ought to enter into the thinking about what they may do.
I guess the term big trade is wing misused here. None of these trades brought in anything big for the Dodgers. They got ride of Kemp okay. A 13 players trade is big in size, but it didn’t net the Dodgers anything to get to excited over. And the Thompson trade wasn’t big for the Dodgers, it was big for the Sox acquiring Frazier. I’m not even a Dodgers fan and I can see that much.
*being misused
Any trade involving 3 teams or 13 players is a big trade. And until this Dodgers FO office started making it a regular thing you rarely saw 3 team trades in baseball. And the Dodgers didn’t want Frazier. They could have had him and straight up said they didn’t want him. Plus we got the best player in that deal which was Montas, who was included and major piece in the Hill and Reddick deal. This FO is in on all the major trades and talks trying to add talent at a high level. The reason a lot of these trades dont come to fruition is because having one of the best farm system always comes with teams being greedy and asking for your best, in every deal. It’s always Seager, Urias, Joc (the last 3 years)
And explain what is the one dimension of Grandals game? His #1 in the league at framing strikes, and just led the MLB catchers in HR. A power hitting catcher that calls a great game and is #1 in stealing strikes. Sounds like one dimension. Lol
By your definition, which is fine for you if you believe it, so long as you understand not everybody is bound to accept it. To me a “big” trade is about more than how complicated it is, or the number of bodies that move around.
Frazier I did not bring up and so gets a shrug from me, I know he wasn’t the Dodgers’ target in that deal. Now if you tell me Montes was the big prize, I’d have to point out that he has yet to throw a pitch in the majors and to my knowledge he isn’t even top-100 ranked as a prospect currently. The argument that he fetched part of a pair of rentals doesn’t convince me of any bigness.
I also don’t see the sense in the argument that teams raise their price to the Dodgers because they are seen as a team that can pay. If a team wants to move a player that player is going to whoever makes the best offer.
The one dimension of Grandal’s game is LH power. Beyond that skill he’s offensively mediocre and his postseason work is consistently appalling. Pitch framing is more black art than science and is hardly the entire game for a catcher. Overall I rate his defensive contributions as average.
Rumors doesn’t mean anything is true. I’m willing to guess half of the rumors on the Dodgers are made up seeing as how they have a deep system and money.
The Dodgers are and would never promote potential trades. They play things as close to the vests as possible. But it’s the offseason so prepare for so many rumors because of their prospects and wallets. You have to take all off season rumors with a grain of salt because every team looking to compete cast their nets out. You’d almost have to fault them if they didn’t make a call for a Kinsler or Verlander or a Sale etc…
I don’t believe for a second that the Dodgers are involved in a higher volume of queries, trade propositions and general talk between front offices – than any other team.
The potential difference here is, the Dodgers are reported on so heavily, we get more whiffs of these talks.
It’s not that they are doing anything different to anyone else – it’s just that you know more about it.
Your disappointment is likely caused by the extra visibility you have, rather than the team itself setting you up to be let down.
Gotta remember that they are still paying Kemp to play elsewhere, plus Crawford to sit at home. Maybe they are waiting 1 more year for a “big trade”.
Along with Bellinger what else could the tigers get? I would assume Ian will cost a lot given his production and contract. Also a huge trade with Verlander and Kinsler would be interesting
If Bellinger is involved that’s a no starter. The caveat being involved in a trade that nets Verlander and Kinsler.
Tigers certainly aren’t getting Bellinger for just Kinsler. A 34 year-old 2B under team control for two years isn’t coming for the team’s top prospect.
Are you insane? Kinsler was almost a 6 WAR (thats MVP-level) player last year and has been elite the last 3. Bellinger isn’t worth Kinsler, LAD would have to add in a LOT more, like De Leon.
STOP OVERVALUING YOUR PROSPECTS EVERYONE, YOUR FRONT OFFICE AGREES WITH ME, NOT YOU.
The Dodgers will not be trading Bellinger to get Kinsler. If you have been watching how Friedman works, you know he doesn’t trade high level prospects very often.
If anything, he is looking to get Kinsler at a moderate prospect cost by enticing DET with the full salary relief, which apparently the ownership is interested in.
diehard gets it. If you really think the Dodgers would ever consider dealing Bellinger, De Leon, and more for a 34 year-old 2B under control for just two more years, you haven’t been following how the current front office does business.
There is no “salary relief” angle in a Kinsler trade. Ownership and GM are working on an up to 3 year plan to lower payroll. Now if you take Sanchez,Pelfrey or Upton, Detroit can take a moderate prospect return.
I totally agreed with your cringe at their premise of bellinger being a non-starter but you may have dialed up an equally absurd amount the other way suggesting Bellinger AND De Leon. Bellinger for Kinsler seems the fair market rate with dodgers prob tossing in some lower level lotto ticket guys along w/him
Exactly. Kinsler is cheap at his elite-level ceiling, prospects might flame out at any time. He alone will require a nice haul, but adding Pelfrey and/or Sanchez then the prospect price goes down.
Thank you! Finally someone that makes sense! I’d love to have Kinsler! He was an Angel killer w/Texas! As much as I like Gonzalez, he’s become very streaky the last 2years
Yes, Detroit wants to get younger and cheaper, but Kinsler is undervalued at his 11MM salary. There just aren’t many players providing what he does for that modest cost. If you want to see Detroit take moderate prospect cost for salary relief, lets talk Anibal, Pelfrey or Lowe. If you want Value (like Kinsler or JD), you will have to give up Value. It won’t be a salary dump.
Bellinger and De Leon for Kinsler works just fine. Kinsler in the NL might really take his offensive game to the next level, and he’s always great no matter what, not to mention cheap and under control for 2 years..
For the Tigers it’s a terrible trade for the Dodgers. In all aspects.
That sounds amazing to me as a tiger fan so I’m going to guess it is a big overpay on the dodgers
Its about what Kinsler’s value is. He’s cheap and puts up elite defense, baserunning and offense numbers. His last 3 fWARs are 5.2, 4.2, 5.8 – that’s an elite level ballplayer right there, worthy of those 2 excellent prospects.
Not really. Two years of a 34 year-old 2B isn’t worth Bellinger alone, much less Bellinger and De Leon.
Except that 2B is basically elite
Yes really, dude you need to change the way you view prospects, because right now you are showing you dont understand how front offices view them and I do.
I am pretty sure I understand THIS front office quite a bit more, but I guess we’ll see, right?
If the front office agreed the deal would have been consummated already don’t ya think? It’s not overvaluing prospects it’s understanding that if you trade your top two prospects that automatically takes you out of potentially more impactful trades maybe like a legitimate SP? It’s also understanding the market and needs. There is more of a need for a corner OF and on the pitching staff.
It’s not an overpay for Kinsler. Everyone understands how good he is. It’s an overpay because Kinsler is a luxury.
Belinger and a mid level spec should meet the asking price for Kinsler, or get close.
DeLeon is too much.
I’m a Cards fan, I’m just sharing my perspective of what their values are.
Kinsler is a good player and a great fit for the Dodgers. But he’s also 34 and it’s only 2 years of play. I’m thinking he probably has around 30 million in surplus value. That’s roughly a top 25-40 range Mlb level prospect, and another lower level piece.
How about Bellinger, Willie Calhoun, and Trayce Thompson for Kinsler?
While we are looking at overhauling the Tigers.
Just make it a miggy, Verlander, and Kinsler for Urias, DeLeon, Belinger etc deal
I’m partially being sarcastic
You must be delusional to some bit to suggest those 3 for Kinsler, or you’re being sarcastic (which I hope is the case). Kinsler is good I know but teams are trying to get younger and trading Bellinger, who I see as the future at 1B in LA, along with Calhoun and Thompson (who the Dodgers seem to love) just has to be a suggestion from a biased Tigers fan.
Uhh thats a huge overpay for Kinsler.. Belinger and De Leon are both top 30 prospects. While Kinsler has been super good the last few seasons, he is also a 34 year old 2B. Projection systems see him more as a 3 win player, which is probably a fairer projection for him than a 5 win season.
Kinsler is not going to return what his WAR says he should. Teams prob aren’t going to empty the farm for mid 30 middle infielder.
What was his WAR projection for 2016? Maybe projections are just predictions, ya think? It what he does, not what he was projected to do.
Yeah if your the Tigers!
only way I see the Dodgers trading Bellinger will be in a package for Sale. Bellinger is in the same group w/ Urias & Seager…Verdugo, Calhoun, JDL would be the bait I think the FO uses to get a 2B. Only other untouchable is Alavrez but he may be a piece in a trade more than Bellinger would.
Willie Calhoun and Alex Wood for Ian Kinsler and Mark Lowe
Unfortunately this kind of deal probably sounds good to the Dodgers FO. They can’t seem to get enough hunks of meat like Lowe.
Kinsler is worth so much more than Calhoun and Wood its not funny.
I’m a big Alex Wood fan, and you only have 2 years of Ian Kinsler
Wood is decent but has been hurt. Dodgers are in a contention window and are looking to add Championship pieces, not grow the farm.
2 years of Kinsler is awesome. Prospects are suspects.
Yeah should have traded Seager last year. He was just a prospect.
Bellinger is not and never will be within Seager’s universe.
You don’t know this FO then.
Hitting .260 in AA doesn’t sound like an elite prospect. What did Seager do at AA?
Bellinger is tearing up the AFL (which is something Seager never did) and with him filling out body wise his power is showing more and more and IIRC he’s young for AA and should be in AAA this season. Also he has a plus glove at 1B
He’s not Seager but he’s not as far off as people think
I don’t think Detroit is THAT desperate to drop payroll.
Anyone having a problem with the website lately? When I click on a story it says unknown key login or something like that.
It’s a WordPress bug apparently (one of many). Try reloading the page, you’ll probably find that it logged you out of your account.
I haven’t had that particular problem.
However, when I log in and read comments there always seems to be one know it all that talks down to everyone else.
1
Absolutely no way Bellinger is included unless it’s part of a bigger trade. He’s our top prospect now and has been on an astronomical rise in the past year. He’s got left handed power, hits for average, and plays solid D at 1st and LF. No to mention he’s only 21 and under control for many more years, he’s the obvious replacement for Adrian. Getting Kinsler would be great right now but Friedman and company have no sold our BEST prospects since he got here, I don’t see that changing. He’ll dump all the mid-tier guys in a heart beat but if he thinks a prospect has a chance to stick,then that’s the end of the discussions!
“Astronomical rise” = .843 OPS at AA, lol
Bellinger isn’t great and has barely played well at AA, you are wildly overvaluing him.
Kinsler gets the Dodgers to the 2017 playoffs, their prospects don’t.
Scouting a stat line lol. He put up that stat line as the 3rd youngest in the Texas League (1 of the toughest leagues to hit in the minors), btw
Methinks you did not read the article.
You realize an .843 OPS is good, right?
Not for a supposed stud 1B.
Matt Olson had a .826 OPS at AA as a 21 year old. What’s the difference?
2016 was Cody’s age 20 season
Bellinger’s OPS ranked third in the Texas League.
Have you paid attention to his AFL line, just throwing that out there.
Well considering he wasn’t a top 100 prospect last year (MLB.com) and is now #31, I’d say yeah, that’s an astronomical rise.
Another rule of thumb, which many fail to look at is to take numbers from various leagues.. PCL, Cal, Tex, Sal and automatically discount many of the offensive numbers, take away power numbers from many, like Cal, Sally.. Adjust pitching downward…
opposite for other leagues.. international is higher pitching oriented.. Kind of like MLB’s AL-NL..
Red Sox fan here. I know Dustin Pedroia is one of the biggest team leaders and one the the best overall players on the Red Sox, but I can see him being traded next offseason to a team in need of a 2B. My reasoning is that we could probably get some more young pitching and a few solid prospects. The Sox would be able to move Moncada back to second base, which is where he played a lot in the minors, and also leave 3B with Moncada not there to Shaw/Devers when he gets up. Thoughts?
If DD trades the dirt-dog (Pedroia) , he’ll have to borrow Theo’s ape suit to get out of town. Without Big Sloppy, Dustin’s the face of the franchise. Think it’s a lot more possible Sox get Miggy, who seems to follow DD wherever he goes….
Bite your tongue. Pedy dies with us (Sox Nation). No way we sell the heart
How about this, I think Pedy took Kinsler place at SS at ASU. Kinsler then went to Missouri. Both players have been the best in the league for along time.!
Dodger fans do tend to over-value their prospects, but Bellinger for Kinsler isn’t close to happening. That would be a giant overpay on the Dodger side.
Keep in mind the Tigers are in heat to cut payroll; that drops the price some. Maybe Calhoun (whose really an OF anyway) and a guy like Josh Sborz; maybe add a #20-30 prospect. But I gotta think Bellinger is off limits unless you’re talking an Archer or Sale.
Exactly.
That’s not gonna be able to get Kinsler
Archer or Sale? For a 1b prospect? Goddamn u guys got the good weed out there.
This is such an ignorant comment. He obviously meant in a package
Again, Kinsler is not a Salary Dump player. Please give me a list of all the players with his experience and production that are only making 11 MM this year and will be getting 10MM next. If you want players for next to nothing, ask about Pelfrey, Lowe and Anibal. Talk to Detroit about JUP. If you want value, you have to trade value.
If the dodgers want kinsler, and don’t want to give up a big time prospect, they may have to take on a pelfrey or Sanchez contract.
Tiger fan here. Personally I would like to see a 2B replacement if Kinsler was replaced. Calhoun would be at the top of my list. From there if they could get Bellinger as well I would be happy with the deal. If not Bellinger, then pretty much any of the other top 6 would work for me. Calhoun would start at 2B right away and bring Tigers a left bat with power. De Leon or Alvarez would bring more pitching depth and Verdugo or Diaz would add some much needed OF depth. Kinsler is a GG 2nd baseman with high upside in batting. Yeah he does only have two years remaining… but he also has two years remaining as an all-star. Don’t see him receding any time soon and definitely not in those two years. Of course, Tigers could also wait till trade deadline too and probably get an even higher return too… which could happen if the right package does not come to them. Something to think of…
Im not a huge of Fangraphs KATOH projections – but they would have the answer to the above discussion.
2 years of Kinsler equals 9.5 WAR ?
6 years of Deleon equals 3.8 WAR
6 years of Bellinger equals 3.2 War
IF you believe their projections.
I do, that’s part of why I thought it was a fairly even deal before Blue Nation showed up and told me that Bellinger is the new Lou Gehrig and not worth an all-star/borderline MVP player who’s at his ceiling right now and somehow looks better every year he plays, so age isn’t an issue there. But yeah, if that trade happened I’d say “Great deal for both sides, Dodgers look amazing next year. Tigers get some decent-ceilings prospects and they save the money on Kinsler.”
This is classic reduction to the absurd logic. As the article states, Bellinger is currently rated at #31 in MLB.com and #24 according to Baseball America. This does not make him “the next Lou Gehrig” but it does make him, along with everybody else in the top 50, a legitimately valuable prospect. Enough, or too much, for Kinsler? That’s a question.
Prospect value is a grey area still. He’s definitely worth a fair bit – but how much? Each to their own.
Next Lou Gehrig though? Considering there’s a consensus 25 prospects rated ahead of him – that’s 25 incredible players. The next Babe, Bonds, Mays, Martinez and Maddux are all there!
I just have to say, from skimming the comment sections of basically any article, its pretty clear the things you say rarely seem to make much sence – you do love to talk, endlessly, about anything tho
Lou Gehrig. LOL…. I guess it all depends on where you see Kinsler’s career going from here. He turns 35 in June, so while he could certainly have more productive seasons in front of him, counting on 5+ WAR seasons in 2017 and 2018 may or may not be foolish. I’d rather use premium prospects like Bellinger in a potential Rays deal, but sure, if it’s a Verlander/Kinsler package, I’d be okay including him and others of course.
Gehrig is probably available, for the right package.
Not sure where you got your numbers from but checking here…
fangraphs.com/blogs/an-improved-katoh-top-100-list…
…we see:
De Leon = 11.8
Bellinger = 6.1
Yeah, I don’t think Detroit is desperate enough payroll wise to sell Kinsler for less than he’s worth. Bellinger would obviously be a necessity for DET. Look at the headline of the article for crying out loud
The Rays are likely to move Forsythe, whose not Kinsler by any means but isn’t too bad. Freidman once acquired Forsythe when he was the Rays GM….With the Rays saying they’ll cut their already pathetic 65 million payroll, and Forsythe making 6 million next year as part of a 2 year deal (’17 & ’18), the Dodgers can likely get him cheap.
I like that matchup if LAD can’t get Kinsler and can see it happening. Dozier is the most expensive of the 3 being that he’s probably the best and is the cheapest. I’m thinking the Twins ask for Urias straight up, or De Leon, Bellinger and one or two more for Dozier.
Apparently the Dodgers are on Kinsler’s no-trade list (of 10 teams), according to Jason Beck and Ken Rosenthal. Kinsler’s agent said that for a team on his no-trade list to acquire Kinsler, they’ll have to give him an extension for him to approve it. I’m not entirely sure if the Dodgers would be willing to give an extension starting with his age-36 season. Doesn’t look like a deal is particularly likely between Dodgers and Tigers, at least with Ian Kinsler (unless LAD is in fact willing to extend him).
How about Dozier to the dodgers, something like Ross Stripling, Yadier Alvarez and Jordan sheffield back? Or a different combo?
Twins should get as much SP back as possible so that’s a solid offer. They might try asking for De Leon since Dozier’s value has never been higher
That seems petty one sided Dodgers. I don’t see how the twins give away the cheap face of the franchise for that.
Maybe Alvarez, De Leon and Sheffield? Is that too much for the dodgers to swallow? Or instead of Sheffield, maybe an outfielder like Diaz?
I think the Dodgers could be able to swallow that.
I think the Twins ask for Urias, maybe even straight up, for Dozier. Dozier is younger, cheaper and arguably better than Kinsler, and while Dozier playing a ton of games in Colorado and Arizona would be a sight to behold, they would be asking the most out of the 3 of the Twins, Tigers and Rays for their respective 2Bmen.
And then the dodgers laugh, and laugh, and hang up and laugh!
So you’re saying the twins aren’t serious about moving Dozier.
I think the twins are serious about trading Dozier. I also think, for the dodgers, if the price for Dozier is Urias, then they move on
I think he is saying that the Twins will not trade Dozier and his $7.5 million/year for 3 B level prospects.
Nor should they. But let’s be realistic here.
Dodgers are not going to trade Urias for Dozier
Yeah most of us here know that. Not all though…
Dozier is a solid player, but I think Kinsler has a better shot at repeating his numbers than Dozier does.
If I were a fan of another team, I’d want Dozier over Kinsler. He’s cheaper, he’s younger by four years, he can’t demand an extension to waive his no trade. Only problem is he might cost more in a trade because of those things.
Over the last three years combined their numbers are pretty similar. Dozier obviously has significantly more HRs due to his insane year (a year in which he slumped for two months). Runs and rbi’s are very close. Dozier could probably have more rbi’s than he does but he bats lead off a lot and the Twins hardly have anyone who gets on base. Not sure Kinsler’s situation on that. Dozier has more SB while Kinsler is a much better avg guy. Defense I would think Kinsler is better but don’t know for sure.
Dozier has turned himself into a top five MLB 2B and I think people underrate him still. Do I think Dozier will hit 42 HR’s again? No, but he’s good for 25-30 and most of the other non-HR stats have been consistent the last three years.
Kinsler, too, bats leadoff. Kinsler is top three defensively, and just won the gold glove (deservedly). Depending on the extension, I don’t know how big a stumbling block that would be. The Tigers will probably be looking for position players, while the Twins will want pitching. I would think that will determine the fit.
Gonna take a ton to get Dozier. No way he goes anywhere unless Twins view a deal as a win for them.
They can have Brandon Phillips for a $5 footlong, a couple dodger dogs, and a scratched lottery ticket.
Overpay.
Ha-ha. What I want to know is where you can find a $5 footlong at Dodger stadium.
Just go down the hill and across the street to the “Guy who needs tickets.” He has tickets and subs. You just have to be willing to ask.
If they also have bootleg t-shirts and garlic fries, count me in!
Well the fries might not be true garlic fries but they have the same scent.
NO WAY! Take the scratched lottery ticket out!!!!! They probably can get the food AND Phillips from the Reds for a “I’m the pollster who said Hillary would win by 5 points” sweatshirt..
They Twins will need De Leon and 2 other prospects to move Dozier
De Leon, Alvarez and Diaz. Solved, right?
I would three from JDL, Sborz, DeJong, Stewart and Oaks would satisfy the Twins for MLB-ready pitching for Dozier. Then the hard work starts deciding on how long an extension you give a 30 year old MI at likely close to $20 million per.
Besides JDL you’re talking about maybe bor ceiling starters. So that’s not going to cut it.
DeLeon Calhoun and Stewart for Dozier.
Kinsler is the most valuable Tiger when you factor in his contract.
Bellinger is not nearly enough in trade value for him.
Yeah but the contract extension to waive his no trade clause changed that so we can now move on and understand Kinsler isn’t going to be traded to the Dodgers.
You should add Forsythe to the mix as well. Same two years at either 6.5 M or pick up the option at another 8,5M. Same age as Dozier solid all around defensively and has become a very consistent hitter with some added power. Could also bat lead-off for them. May take a little less to acquire him..Verdugo and Barnes would be a good starting point with options to expand a deal.
Dodgers = all talk, no trades.
Welcome to being a large market, with big money, and a great system. They just like the Red Soxs, Cubs, etc will be connected to a lot of players. A majority of them will be just gauging interest calls.
If Kinsler was asking for one additional year at 12MM (not that I would know), would that be a deal breaker? I would think a GM would work to acquire the best players possible for his team, even if a no trade clause was in place. Once agreement was reached, then the player gets approached about the no trade. Does Cleveland have a better approach than LA? They at least tried to acquire Lucroy.
Why waste time and make a deal if you aren’t sure a deal can be reached. Seems like a waste of everybody’s time. If they aren’t willing to extend Kinsler then there’s no point.
Kinsler has a team option for 2018 so what he is probably is asking for is that to be picked up and add one more year so it becomes a 3 year deal. Not a bad deal for both sides and he would be 37 entering into FA and at the end of his career.
Let’s not speculate, because in this market he could ask for 4 and get it.
Do you think the 2B market is that thin this offseason?
For pure 2b, not just utility guys, yes. The only pure 2b is what Utley? I could be wrong, but with Walker accepting QO idk who else. Rodriguez is intriguing because of his reintroduction to leg kick, but is he a guy you pay an enormous amount of money? Desmond can probably be put into that camp, but I see him more as a SS/corner OF category. Idk correct me if I’m wrong, because I honestly could be.
I can’t think of anyone who hasn’t already been mentioned but those discussions include a few prime trade targets, and of course the obvious fallback position of Utley. Makes four possibilities at least. Honestly I think Utley is how they end up playing it. Possibly Phillips could be had reasonably too. I don’t see them sending Kendrick away only to have to spend or trade big to cover the position. Kind of depends on whether they think Johnson is close to ready.
Don’t mind if they resign Utley. But along with that, I honestly would like to see them trade for Solarte. They could bounce him around then inf.
extending Kinsler one year through ’19 at $12M means basically getting Kendrys Morales’ contract for Kinsler. That’s a great deal. prospects (plural) should reflect that.. Bellinger or DeLeon plus another top 10 system prospect is about right.
Your assumption being that he’s looking for just one year at only 12M. A contract ext kinds of dips the attractiveness and prospect demand for those on his NTL the other way dependent on his demands. If he’s asking for an extension he’s asking for fair market value. So the question then becomes what is Turner/Desmond going to get? That’s where a trade does not make sense. Obviously we aren’t in his camp so assumptions are useless.
So now if he asks for more than 1 year that deal becomes much less attractive then a Braun deal especially considering McCarthy and Puig’s contract essentially cancel Braun’s contract out for two years and his contract decreases. So fair market value is what 15 mill. So is two years at 30 worth it compared to a Braun swap who is younger and with a better offensive game which ages more gracefully. So now at 35 with four years he’s 38. There’s no DH. I’m all for Kinsler getting security, but at that price he’s not worth it. So the FO will take a hard pass. And I can’t blame them. So his needs probably preclude them from multiple top 10 prospects at least from the Dodgers.
Basically it’s equivalent to a free agent deal for Kinsler only the Dodgers also have to part with farm pieces to make it happen. I see them passing.
Moot point. LA front office wont extend him for his 36+ age seasons 2 years before hand.
I think the Dodgers what to get younger as they improve their team. I think they go after Dozier at 2nd over Kinsler, he is five years younger. I don’t see them getting rid of Bellinger he is ripping up the AFL and Gonzo is getting older. They have had good success with their young additions like Pederson and Seager.
Puig, DeLeon and Calhoun to the Twins for.Dozier and Trevor Plouffe – Dodgers fill two needs and do not have to over-pay to resign an aging Turner.
They receive an inferior player in Plouffe in all facets of the game. Plus why would you trade trade for Plouffe when he probably will be NT.
DeLeon is a good start, but I would think the Twins would want two pitchers in the trade (the other likely wouldn’t be as highly rated as DeLeon)….Plus one other guy.
Not sure I see a fit for Puig here. Twins have Kepler, Walker or Palka for RF already. One could move to LF, likely Kepler, but it would still be a logjam. DH might be full too, depending on what happens with Sano/Vargas. Plus, I’m not a huge Puig fan.
Twins biggest needs are SP (by far), C and SS.
Puig’s future is over. Before it was off field problems now it’s on field problems. Don’t see any team giving up much to get him.
I hope the Dodgers pursue Dozier harder than Kinsler.