The Rays want “massive returns” for their on-the-block starting pitchers – which, in Chris Archer’s case, could mean more than the White Sox received from Boston for Chris Sale – reports Marc Topkin of the Tampa Bay Times. Archer, 28, hasn’t been as effective as Sale, though he does come with five controllable years at a combined $38.5MM (Sale has three years of control at $38MM). Given their asking price, odds are that the Rays won’t trade Archer, writes Topkin, who adds that fellow right-hander Jake Odorizzi is also unlikely to go anywhere. Tampa Bay isn’t as attached to Drew Smyly, Alex Cobb or Erasmo Ramirez, meaning any of the three could end up on the move in the right deal.
Now for the latest on a few players who aren’t under contract for 2017:
- The Indians weren’t able to reach an agreement to re-sign free agent first baseman/designated hitter Mike Napoli when they met Monday, but the two sides continue to maintain dialogue, team president Chris Antonetti told MLB Network Radio on Sunday (Twitter link). Cleveland is also in touch with other first base/DH types, though Antonetti didn’t specify which players are on the club’s radar. Reports over the past week have linked free agents Edwin Encarnacion, Mark Trumbo, Chris Carter and Adam Lind to the Tribe.
- The Pirates “are still engaged” with free agent right-hander Ivan Nova’s camp, general manager Neal Huntington said Sunday (Twitter link via Stephen J. Nesbitt of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette). There hasn’t been much chatter of late regarding Nova, who joined the Pirates in an Aug. 1 trade with the Yankees and subsequently posted a 3.06 ERA, 7.29 K/9 and .42 BB/9 in 64 2/3 innings to boost his stock entering free agency. The soon-to-be 30-year-old is arguably the best starter remaining in a thin class that has lost Rich Hill, Jeremy Hellickson and Bartolo Colon, among others, over the past few weeks.
- The idea of former Red Sox DH David Ortiz postponing his retirement is mostly wishful thinking, it seems. Evan Drellich of the Boston Herald informed MLB Network Radio on Sunday that Ortiz’s mind is made up there’s “zero chance” barring an unexpected change of heart from the 41-year-old Ortiz (Twitter link). Ortiz has already filed his retirement paperwork, Drellich points out, and the process of reversing course is both cumbersome and uncommon.
Just Another Fan
Didn’t Ryne Sandberg fairly easily retire then come back?
How many times did Andy Peditte or Rodjah Clemens retire? Mind you, neither did a retirement tour.
They didn’t file for retirement they just said they retired and didn’t sign with anyone
Ah yes, Rodjah Clemens. The Iranian pitcher who escaped the throes of Islamic dictatorship and went on to record the third most strikeouts in MLB history.
It’s rough for Sunni pitchers living under Shiite rule.
This is great. Praise be to Allah
if you’re OK with clemens, you’re OK with bonds
If youre NOT ok with either then you’re also not ok with 85% of the league’s players in 2003
Yes biggio was coming to Cubs but didn’t when sandberg came back. Thanks ryno
Sandberg was in the middle of a lousy year and just gave up in early 94. Took a couple seasons off and came back for 96-97, and played okay. He was a mercurial guy, not well-liked, butva terrific player and it was when the Cubs were grasping for any talent.
Sandberg was going thru extreme marital problems and did not want to take the money as he could not focus. He walked away from millions of guaranteed money.
He also was and still is one of the more beloved Chicago Cubs.
I can’t believe how far people have taken his Instagram comment and it is wishful thinking. Ortiz retired not because he doesn’t think he can continue to perform but b/c of the toll his body has taken. He played through extreme pain last year and has to work extra hard to remain in shape given his age. He knows his body can’t take the toll of another season.
Steroids took a toll on his body
Steroids led to his foot problems you’re saying?
HAHA. So absurd to say this. The guy played forever and excelled much later into his career than most do, especially guys with physical makeups like his. His body held up incredibly well. That happened because he worked his butt off. Steroids or not. His body didn’t ‘break down’ because of anything besides age.
Yeah I’ve never read in any literature about the use of steroids leading to problems with the feet.
Hmm. He excelled pretty much his entire Red Sox career, barring the half season he tore his tendon sheath and part of the following season, yet there are players at this present time getting 70m+ contracts (Fowler, Desmond) who will never, ever put up the numbers ortiz did either of those 2 “poor” years (2008-9) by Ortiz Standards.
Problem is many people just don’t care for the guy and how much he dominated the game from 2003-6.
He was one of the best hitters of his time and probably the most clutch of his class.
Its unfortunate that he wasn’t good enough at fielding to participate in the other half of the game.
I’m shocked he’s never been linked to PEDs. Look at him during his days with the twins. He either gained a healthy appetite and got his power from that or he was using something for a period of time.
Umm he has…. best kept secret in sports media. http://mobile.nytimes.com/2009/07/31/sports/baseball/31doping.html?referer=
He’s been linked plenty.
Mitchell Report I’m fairly certain
Nope. Ortiz is not in the Mitchell Report. But Neifi Perez, Mike Bell and Jason Grimsley are.
In 2003 he was using a legal OTC supplement that was later banned by baseball. He has admitted to it. Baseball now tests for it and he’s never tested positive for it.
Ortiz was named in the Mitchell report
Take that back but was linked at the same time
“The Boston Red Sox slugger always has denied ever using steroids despite the New York Times’ 2009 report that he was included in baseball’s Mitchell Report for testing positive for PEDs in 2003.”
And about those supplements….
“I was taking whatever supplements were good at the time, stuff that everybody was using that would sustain me in my workouts,’’ he said.
Which supplements? The substance that triggered his positive test result has yet to be identified.
“It’s been a long time,’’ Ortiz said. “I don’t know.’’
He must have a clue, he was told. He had previously stated he was “careless’’ about the products he put in his body.
“All I can tell you is, I was using what everybody was using at the time,’’ Ortiz said. “It’s not like I was picky about it.’’
No. David Ortiz was not named in the Mitchell report. But superstars like Manny Alexander, Jim Parque and Alex Cabrera were.
He’s always had power. He beet arod and other Seattle mariner players in a home run derby when he was in A , in 97, I believe
85% of the league tested positive in the blind test that led to the banning of many PEDs in baseball.
It was part of the game at the time and when something ISNT against the rules, then its not cheating. No matter how you feel about it.
Things change in baseball, but that era will forever stand and must be respected and accepted for what it was. You shamers are shaming players that didn’t break the rules of the MLB so you’re beef was with the league, not the players. Get over yourselves with all that self-righteousness.
Wasn’t Cobb supposed to be the rays front line starter and wasn’t there recently chatter about him being moved?
Like many pitchers before him and many after, he got hurt.
He was our top of the rotation guy before TJS. Still interest in him being a reclamation project. Though he had some bright spots in his return.
I felt Ortiz would never return either. However, he is a different individual than most so who knows. Drelich says he won’t then he probably will because he is an idiot. Drelich acts like an insider and has a long way to go in Boston media.
He’s just slanging hope to his readers to keep them reading.
This pleases Rich Hahn very much. Quintana can still garner a huge haul, but more reasonable than the Rays. Q is gone this week if this is true. White Sox just keep tearing up this offseason rebuild.
Don’t think there’s anyone left with a stocked farm and the desire to go all in. White Sox lucked into two deals with teams that fit that description. Dunno who’s left. Maybe Dodgers? But Hill pretty much completed their rotation. Maybe Rangers or Astros. That’s about it, and neither seems very desperate.
I think Q stays until deadline at least. White Sox may be close to finished actually. Maybe one of the relievers go.
Cubs and rays or As will match up soon. Just too good a fit both ways.
Rays asked for Soler or Baez for Cobb when he was recovering from TJ. These two teams have been taking for 18 months with nothing done, Cubs have made it clear that they won’t deal from core only prospects. If something hasn’t happened by now there has to be serious doubt a trade ever will.
Exactly. Cubs have been asking about everyone in Tampa’s rotation.
Guys experience over time is golden for a hitter… hitting a certain ball with a certain swing in repetition over years is where lights go on for hitters and the steroid issue made the mans feet go bad, really …give the man his due.
Also who has the same body as they end up in there40’s as there 20s…no one I know
Can’t see any team offering the Rays anything close to what the White Sox got for Sale. Aside from Sale being a better pitcher, Sale is a lefty which is always a little more valuable.
Agreed, I can’t see the Rays getting anything like the haul for Sale. I would go after Quintana over Archer, regardless of the extra years of control. Quintana’s stuff is filthy. I don’t know much about Archer though, haven’t watched him pitch much.
the rockies can add blackmon to any deal, that’s a big piece, blackmon, pint, freeland is only a piece short.
Blackmon’s a great piece to add offensively if the Rays were a big market team but they aren’t. Blackmon is projected to make $9.0MM this year via arbitration by MLBTR. He is probably out of the Rays comfort zone salary wise. Heck next winter in his final year of arbitration he could make $15MM or more. I just don’t see the Rays really being interested in him from that standpoint.
they are removing archers money in the deal, so it’s hardly adding.
Rays are difficult to make trades with. Goes back to the Lamar days.
As a small market team, they have to win every trade to stay competitive, so they have to ask for the moon. But to expect it even when their player has had a horrendous year is a bit much. I still think they are trying to make up for giving up Myers and somehow only getting Souza and not Turner. They gave up the best player in the deal at the time and didn’t get the best return.
Ghost of Friedman still lurks.
Which is funny bc Friedman was in LA and that was Silverman’s first big trade. That’s one hell of a ghost.
Yeah but teams still get trades done with them, look at dt landing price. All they had to do was add a third
Ortiz would probably be more of a distraction than an asset in 2017, but if he wanted to play, Red Sox would have a hard time saying no, and whatever “retirement papers” issues would be waived by MLB. Baseball is a business. If there’s money to be made, rules are optional.
They Rays are crazy if they think they will get a better return than the Sox !!!
Sale is by far a way better pitcher than Archer !!!
No doubts about it !!!
Archer has a better contract though. And he’s still an ace on most rotations.
Archer would command a bigger haul then Sale? That’s absurd. He is good. But no where near Sale. I don’t care about his cheap contract. 9-19 with a 4.02 ERA.
I have a Dodgers-Rays question (side question involving Quintana-Robertson, and what I assume would be a slightly lesser package). Would Bellinger, De Leon, Yusniel Diaz, Brock Stewart, and Will Smith be enough to get Odorizzi and Colome from the Rays for the Dodgers? I doubt they could get Archer and Colome with something like that, but maybe I’m wrong…
I’ve heard a couple of people say they dont think the Dodgers would trade Bellinger, but they’d still have other guys close to the big leagues in that scenario, as well as obviously the guys they already have in the big leagues….unless they are done with Puig? I might still be valuing him higher than I should be. Or unless they’re eventually planning on using Bellinger to replace Adrian Gonzalez at 1b, but dude is a good enough athlete to play in the OF, and you can figure out 1b another way IMO. or does the new CBA and their debt situation mean they’re trying to save money, by having their young guys, and then to help them keep Kershaw in 2018? I just think you can always figure out something at 1b if you’re a team like the Dodgers
As for the Rays, I figure they’re likely to trade only 1 of their SPs. I might be wrong. I’d assume they’re more willing to part with Odorizzi and/or Cobb, than both Odorizzi and Archer, considering the amount of control they have over them, whereas Cobb is a free agent after the season (although I’d also assume they’d prefer to deal Cobb during the season, so he could possibly rebound some value after his injuries the last couple of years)
But I could see them pairing Colome with one of them to get a really big haul, and the Dodgers could use a guy that can pitch near the top of their rotation, behind Kershaw/Hill, and obviously a backend guy in their bullpen
It could be done. Tampa did something similar when they netted Myers, Odorizzi, Montgomery, and Leonard. I think it would depend on the package like you said. Tampa comes up in talks with LA almost as much as Chicago, as well.
Yes I think they’ve somewhat given up on Puig but they can’t just give him up if that makes sense. He’ll need to be somewhat of spare piece in a big trade. They value Bellinger because he’s a pure hitter and his positional flexibility along with his arm strength. I think what they need to do is address their 2b position and then if need be address the pen situation at the deadline. There will be a bounty of choices as teams fall out of the race. To be honest there is enough repetitiveness in the system that Diaz holds more value to the Dodgers than Calhoun or Verdugo. Both of which will find their way to a MLB OF. So I wouldn’t be too heart broken if Calhoun and Verdugo were traded. They are at the point where they can start filling holes if they re-up what they need to re-up.
Actually Archer has more net value than Sale. They’re about the same age. Over he past three years, assuming a 6-inning start, here’s what you get (both have performed in front of so-so defenses and, while Cellular is a better hitter’s park thaan the Trop, it isn’t by much)
Sale: 101 starts, 608 IP, 504 hits, 133 BB; 710 K’s
Archer: 101 starts; 607 IP; 535 hits, 200 BB; 668 K’s
Sale would have to be TWICE as good as Archer, with his 12M AAV, and Archer’s 6M AAV. And Archer has an affordable 11M option in year 4, when you lose Sale.
Sale’s no where near twice as good as Archer. Having Archer allows you to get a decent #3 starter to accompany him; Sale stands alone.
The Rays will get more for Archer, for the simple reason he’s worth more.
Archer will bring back as much because of age and a longer deal. But your non sense about value and salary is absurd. So by your logic if sale was making 8 mil versus archers 6 mil sale would have to be 33% better of a pitcher than archer to make them equal value? They are both signed to extremely affordable contracts for aces and can both be easily fit into someone’s salary plans. I don’t think anyone really gives a rats bleep about 6 or 12 mil. Look at all the money teams eat just to dump a player. It’s not like the redsox looked at sale and archer and were like oh archer makes 6 mil and sale makes 12 mil, so let’s get archer and his 4+ era last season.
Nonsense is thinking that 6 million/year doesn’t mean anything to MOST MLB teams. That’s 18 million over 3 years. It affects roster construction more than you’re willing to
Not everybody is the Red Sox
Well considering most probable suitors for a big name pitcher are in win now mode and include teams like the dodgers, Astros, braves, etc. all of whom are more than willing to spend money on talent especially when the money the are spending is 6 or 12 million already a massive bargain in either circumstance
3 years, $10 million a year for Ivan Nova.
I’d have said no chance he’d take it, but seems odd that there are no teams linked to him, no talk about him, no rumors even.
guessing the pitching market is still waiting on Jansen/trades?
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