Ian Kinsler’s stance on his limited no-trade clause — that he’d want an extension to waive it, per his agent — seemed to complicate potential trade talks between the Dodgers and Tigers. But it was never known just what kind of new contract he’d have sought, and the veteran second baseman suggested today that the trade protection wouldn’t have posed a major barrier, as MLB.com’s Jason Beck reports. “I don’t think that was going to stand in the way of a trade,” said Kinsler, who seems likely to open the season with Detroit. It wouldn’t have been preferable to veto a deal and end up back with the Tigers, he noted, explaining that “it’s just kind of awkward to have a trade in place and then have it fall through.” After praising GM Al Avila for his handling of the matter, Kinsler said of the no-trade clause: “[W]hen you have protection, you need to use it. That’s what it’s built in for. That’s how I was going to go about it.” The organization has largely held pat with its veterans, despite prior suggestions that some kind of sell-off might occur this offseason, and Beck writes that the core players seem relieved and excited at the prospect of at least one more run together.
Here’s more from Motown:
- A return to form from a few key players could certainly turn the tide for the Tigers, with righty Jordan Zimmermann certainly representing an important part of the equation. As Anthony Fenech of the Detroit Free Press reports, Zimmermann set out to solve his neck issues. He has undergone treatments and says he feels good, though it seems that he’s still dealing with some tightness.
- After acquiring Mikie Mahtook, the Tigers now have an interesting camp battle lined up for time in center field, as Evan Woodberry of MLive.com explores. He’ll likely be competing with former LSU teammate JaCoby Jones to take the right-handed side of a platoon situation. Things are looking good for the left-handed-hitting Tyler Collins, Woodberry notes, since the organization designated Anthony Gose to make roster space for Mahtook. Alex Presley appears to be the most likely alternative as a lefty platoon piece.
- Speaking of Gose, former Triple-A manager Lloyd McClendon says that the highly publicized argument between the two is water under the bridge. As George Sipple of the Detroit Free Press writes, McClendon (who is now the big league hitting coach in Detroit) says that he wishes the 26-year-old the best, wherever he ends up. Attributing the spat to the rigors of the working environment, McClendon noted that he and Gose have “had great conversations since then.” As for the still-youthful player’s future? “He’s got a lot of talent,” said McClendon. “Anthony Gose will land on his feet. He’s not the first kid, won’t be the last, that runs out of time with a certain organization. That’s just the nature of our business.”
Deke
I’m with Kinsler on the no trade clause thing. A player negotiates it so they can get a little stability and return for upending their life to move. However I’ve never really understood the strategy with a limited no trade clause. Anyone know how this works exactly? It seems that players use it as both a bargaining chip and also to ensure they don’t go to a team they don’t want to go to? How often do they get to amend the teams on the list?
bencole
Typically every offseason
Patrick OKennedy
Usually, the player submits a list of players prior to the season.
A no partial trade clause often fills the gap until a player has full five and ten rights where he can veto a trade to any club. For expensive contracts, which are the type that usually contain the NTC’s, agents usually submit a list of the big market teams, who are most likely to take on a big contract.
Dock_Elvis
Often a player will redo the no trade list to involve teams that he feels he’s MORE likely to be traded to. It gives him potential negotiating leverage. Its why you’ll see Boston on a no trade list, for example. And other times they just dont want to play for another organization for whatever reason…maybe Toronto because of the tax rates…or a team thats not competing.
NorahW
Some players seemed to have Seattle on their list, for instance. Long travel time and the team wasn’t competitive for so long.
marmaduke
I’ve never heard of re-doing a no-trade clause. But, if a player can make one when they sign, either the team, or the news media, make it appear as though the player is “playing hardball.” The team agree to it, when they signed that player. So, it’s the teams stupid fault.
madmanTX
Dunno why people don’t see how selfish Kinsler really is and why the Rangers were happy to see him go. He’s reached that point in his life where he wouldn’t help somebody who’s on fire unless they pay him to do it. People can say he’s right to look out for himself, but his unwillingness to switch positions or mentor younger players makes him look toxic in a the clubhouse.
oldleftylong
Seems to be a good teammate in the Motor City.
turner9
Yea as a regular Joe it’s kind of irritating to hear things like no trade clauses.
These fine gentleman get paid way too handsomely to be allowed to dictate so much. But it’s the managers/owners faults for adding the clauses in the contracts
Just seems silly that someone making so much money to play a sport gets to request more money just for moving to another city. Or to simply block it because he doesn’t want to play in X city
chesteraarthur
This is just stupid. Part of the contract they bargained for is that no trade. It has value to the player, that’s why they negotiate for it. It doesn’t matter how much money they are making or what they are doing for work. They are the best of the best at a job that generates a huge amount of revenue.
Jeff Todd
Generally speaking, they take less money when they sign the deal in order to obtain the protection. In many cases, it’s because they simply care about things like being able to keep their family in one place, living near where they work, or living in a place they want to be for other reasons. If you stop and think about it, we all consider this when making employment decisions. Most of us can’t be traded. Most of us also don’t have the leverage to make what these guys do, but what’s wrong with taking and exercising a NTC if the team will give it?
Deke
I’m with you Jeff. A player might ask for 15 million a year and be offered 13 million a year. In return for that 2 million they kinda “salary sacrifice” for better terms. Terms that help them do all the things you said.
There’s a cost both financially and psychologically to make someone move cities. Right now if you wanted me to move to an expensive city that I didn’t want to live in, I’d be asking for more money, relocation etc. especially if I were happy where I was.
davidcoonce74
That’s sort of absurd. Just because a baseball player makes a lot of money doesn’t mean he stops being a human. It doesn’t mean he stops having a family. As anyone with kids will tell you, it’s not fun or advisable to move your kids from school to school every year. (Kinsler has two children, btw). You don’t just move away from your family for 8 months and brush it off like it doesn’t matter. These are still real people with real lives. Just because they make obscene amounts of money doesn’t mean they want to be apart from their children and spouses for much of a year.
Dock_Elvis
I dont think any amount of money would be worth up heaving family…kids in school..etc. Granted most of us dont have their lifestyle, but we also get to choose where we work with not much chance we show up on Monday and get told we have to catch a plane for Cincinnati because we work there now.
chesteraarthur
Cuz he’s not?
Patrick OKennedy
Kinsler is a model team mate in Detroit. Fans appreciate that he didn’t want to be traded and that he’d use the NTC that he bargained for. No problem at all there.
gillyking
Kinsler is a douche. If he wanted to take the challenge and upgrade his chances of a championship in LA.. then he should have let the negotiations know that he’d wave that extension. It would have only been for a year anyway.. So wtf.. he’s just a knucklehead.. Probably voted for Hillary too ha!
Blue_Painted_Dreams_LA
He did really he said he’d waive his NTC for an extension. I don’t really see what the issue is here. Even as a Dodger fan, I realize such isn’t going to make him get able, for lack of a better word, but he there’s a reason he has a NTC and same with 10-5 guys. I respect it.
jdgoat
You’re a joke
BlueSkyLA
Jokes are funny.
pukelit
Please don’t bring politics into anything…ever. I hate her as much as anyone but there’s a time and place for it, and it’s never in sports
lesterdnightfly
pukelit:
So the person offended at political references here makes another political slur.
The irony …
stymeedone
Evidently he feels a Championship in Detroit would be sweeter.
jdgoat
Why would he move positions when the guy who replaced him is trash at D? Kinsler is a great teammate and a leader, you’re just butt hurt how that trade turned out
NorahW
Is he not mentoring players in Detroit?
jackstigers 2
He’s actually been praised for mentoring Jose Iglesias. That guy is just an upset Rangers fan who is unhappy Kinsler didn’t roll over for a player a decade his minor. The irony is that neither Profar nor Fielder ever really helped Texas.
stymeedone
For a guy you claim needs to be paid to put out a guy who’s on fire, I see him as being underpaid. Look at his numbers and then compare his salary to Cano’s. I also like that his current long term contract declined in value as he aged. Seems like he was being fair to the team and team mates, which would allow the team to get better at a time his production might be declining (which it hasn’t to this point). More players should set up their contracts this way.
CubsFanForLife
I’m kind of surprised, why did the Tigers opt to keep Collins after he flipped off the home crowd? I always thought that was the kind of thing that would boot you from the majors.
stymeedone
1. Collins is one of the few major league ready prospects they have. 2. He bats LH and they have a RH heavy lineup. 3. He plays quality defense in the corners. 4. Any trade value disappeared with the gesture. 5. Much like Curtis Granderson, who the fans loved, he is not the highly touted prospect. He has good but not great tools. But he hustles and gives his all, In a blue collar town like Detroit, its a solid selling point.
Dock_Elvis
I love Detroit…some of the best sports fans in the world. I cant imagine what the reaction would be to being flipped off though….some of those guys can rumble. All you have to do is bust your butt in Detroit and they love you for it.
Mr Pike
Some of the fans cussed Collins out. He flipped them off. They flipped him back. The have tough skin in Detroit. They don’t wet their panties if you show some emotion, especially if you defend yourself. Story over.
Dock_Elvis
Wasn’t fully aware of the scenario, thanks. Ballplayers flip people off constantly…not sure ive been to a game where it hasn’t happened.
Patrick OKennedy
Truthfully… a lot of fans, though they won’t condone a player flipping off fans, were okay with it. Some fans get obnoxious during games and he gave a little bit back to them. You could say “they had it comin”. So it’s like he flipped off “other’ fans, not all the Detroit fans.
I’m over it. But then, I was never under it and I like Collins.
tuner49
Collins also admitted he was very frustrated and made a mistake. He apologized to the team,management and fans. He is young and makes mistakes like we made as someone in their 20’s. As you stated stymeedone, he lacks the tools to be a great player, but he is a hard nosed,giving it his all kind of player fans and teammates like.
CubsFanForLife
Ahh, that’s fair, thank you! If you guys are, indeed, Detroit fans, do you still like Collins? Just curious. (I’m not really a fan of Milton Bradley haha, but that’s a little different)
stymeedone
When Granderson was coming up, Detroit fans were waiting for Cameron Maybin and Gorky Hernandez. Granderson got the job when Maybin started his injury history, and Gorky got traded. He worked out ok. Hoping Collins can be a plus for the team this year, even from a bench role.
lesterdnightfly
CubsFanForLife::
I like Milton Bradley. But I like board games, so there’s that….
CubsFanForLife
Let’s just say there’s always some heated contention when a Milton Bradley is around. 🙂
Patrick OKennedy
Hasbro was a head case. Collins is different.
Patrick OKennedy
There was never going to be a sell off in Detroit. The club was just going to check into swapping some expensive players for younger, speedier, less costly players who have more years of club control left. If 2 months of Cespedes can get them Fulmer and Luis Cessa (who was flipped for Justin Wilson), the a full season of JD Martinez should get at least that much in a trade. Only the market wasn’t there with so many sluggers available where teams didn’t have to part with any top prospects.
The Tigers have the second highest payroll in MLB right now for tax purposes. They’re on track to pay a 30% tax. on some $ 20 million above the luxury tax threshold unless they cut payroll. They’d like to, but they’re not destroying the roster to get there.
tigerdoc616
Tigers are sitting at about $213.5M right now as far as the CBT including estimated player benefits. You can find a spreadsheet on this on Cots baseball contracts. $215M is the magic number, which is $20M over this years threshold of $195M, where the additional 12% surcharge kicks in. In 2016, the Tigers added about $500K in costs over the year. Trading for Aybar and the call ups to replace injured players adds to the cost. So really, the Tigers have about $1M to play with unless they move salary. At this juncture, the market is not there, but funny things happen in spring training. Pelfrey, Sanchez, and Lowe have good springs and who knows, there might be some takers. But these numbers make it clear to me why the Tigers have not been pursuing any of the CF options that were available this winter. Any deal would push them into the 12% surcharge. Plus, Sanchez has a $5M buyout. IF they are unable to move him this season, picking up his $5M buyout will add about $4.5M in additional CBT. His option for $2018 is $16M and even picking up that option year, the Tigers should have no issues getting under the CBT threshold for 2018. So don’t be surprised if the Tigers pick up that option.
And you absolutely nailed with your first paragraph. I have been saying this for awhile, but it seems that most people don’t get it.
bluejaysfan
I know Gose is a bit of a head case, but I think the Jays should try him out again and see if they can’t get him on track. The need some left handed help and some speed, maybe he doesn’t turn into anything, but shouldn’t cost a lot to have a look.
Patrick OKennedy
He’s all yours! Would you like Mark Lowe back also– for old times sake?
MaverickDodger
If they want a warm body who swings from left side and owns an outfield glove . . . Just call the Dodgers. Ethier is more than available. At little to no cost at all. Or if they’d like to overpay Tolles can be had too
stymeedone
If the Dodgers were willing to give Ethier away, and pick up his salary, I don’t think he would still in in Blue. Gose is less expensive.
Bart Wang
Ugh, no. There is debate whether Kinsler is a selfish player (I’m not saying he is); there is no debate about Gose. He is that guy and everyone seems to agree, He has thought more highly of himself than the two organizations of which he has been a part and he has not lived up to their lower expectations. I was a big fan when he was in Toronto’s system but he’s arrogant, immature and doesn’t produce. Who gets sent from the Show to AA (other than rehab)? Almost unheard of.
osonvs
Roy Halladay was sent from the Show to AA and that wasn’t rehab. I think it turned out pretty good for his career. So no, it’s not almost unheard of for someone to get sent down to AA.
stymeedone
It was only after he was terrible at AAA and had the incident with the coach that he was allowed to be terrible at AA. (Sadly, he still may end up as an option for the ML team.)
66TheNumberOfTheBest
Jacoby Jones should have been the MVP of Super Bowl 47.
bigred44
I’d play Jones everyday
stymeedone
I would too. At AAA Toledo. He needs more time in the minors. He strikes out too much, and is new to CF.
tigerdoc616
Tigers were never in sell off mode, and were never intending to be. Tigers realize they are at the end of their run with this group of players. So there was not going to be a big free agent addition like past off seasons. Al Avila’s “willing to listen” comment was in response to a question asked by the media. People took that to mean the Tigers were going to sell off. If the TIgers wanted a sell off it would have happened. Because if you doing that, you will take the best offer you get and don’t look back. Since this is the last run with this group, you are willing to listen but you want maximum value. No other team was willing to give the Tigers that. As far as Kinsler, he’s right. He has that no-trade clause for a reason, and it probably would not have impeded a trade. Given the Dodgers could not reach an agreement with either the TIgers or the Twins, its the Dodgers who were the problem. Did not want to give value in return for either Dozier or Kinsler.
cxcx
Still not getting the “turn the tide” talk. Tigers won 86 games last season despite down years from multiple players. They should be fine.
stymeedone
At this juncture, I am guessing the CF plans with what they already have, based on improving the defense. I see Mahtook as their best defensive player, platooning with Collins, only because he is out of options. I think Gose would be better defensively, but then they would lose Collins on waivers, as he is a fully capable bench player. Gose would have to have one hellava spring. Its also possible Mahtook’s platoon mate could be Romine, with Machado taking the utility infield spot.
daved
They should have signed Bourjos.
tigerdoc616
Still could, he has not signed.
But IMO, the only way they add anyone to the CF tryout is through a minor league contract with an invite to spring training. 4 options out there (Bourjos, Jackson, Bourn, Jennings) sitting there with no serious suitors. One of them might bite on a minor league deal as time wears on.
stymeedone
Bourjos, Jackson and Bourn have fairly low ceilings. Jennings hasn’t been healthy enough to play center. The problem would be that with one of Mahtook or Jones expected to cover the position in the majors and the other at AAA, it’s not like they would be anything more than a spring training invite, and a long shot opportunity for the majors. The Tigers want to get younger, and they don’t fit that direction.
daved
Bourjos won’t be 30 until Opening Day. He’s not old. He played on a crap team and out of his true position of CF last year, and still did ok. He still has great speed and an elite glove. He even hit over .250 with 20 doubles. They could have had him over Mahtook without giving up anything. And, they could have had him at roughly $2MM. Batting him 9th and playing CF part time will help a lot of A.L. teams.
stymeedone
As I said, he has a low ceiling, and he’s not young. Yes, he could help a lot of teams, but with Moya, Collins, and Machado all out of options, I wouldn’t give up one of them for him. IMO they have higher ceilings plus they are younger. If they were able to go get a Keirmeier or a Inciarte, then I’d have no problem giving up their spot, but that’s not going to happen.
daved
Missing the point. They could have gotten Bourjos INSTEAD of giving up players in a trade for Mahtook.