The Nationals’ reported two-year agreement with Matt Wieters (which contains a player option/opt-out clause after the first season) gives the team four catchers on the 40-man roster, as Wieters now joins Derek Norris, Jose Lobaton and young Pedro Severino. While Severino was likely to open the year in the minors anyhow, the addition of Wieters immediately made it apparent that the Nats were likely to explore deals involving their remaining two MLB backstops.
Jorge Castillo of the Washington Post wrote this week that manager Dusty Baker strongly implied that the team would gauge interest in Norris, and FanRag’s Jon Heyman wrote today that the Nats are “trying to trade” Norris, citing sources from other clubs that have been contacted by the Washington front office. The Post’s Barry Svrluga adds to the Norris trade buzz as well, tweeting that his expectation is that Norris will be traded. That’d leave the Nats with Wieters and Lobaton to comprise their primary catching corps (with Severino, of course, in the wings at Triple-A).
Unquestionably, Norris’ value was higher a year ago than it is at present. The former Padres and Athletics receiver (who was originally drafted by the Nats in 2007) posted quality offensive numbers from 2013-15 but limped to a dismal .186/.255/.328 batting line in 458 plate appearances last season. That was about 45 percent worse than the league-average bat, per park-adjusted metrics like OPS+ and wRC+, leading many (myself included) to wonder about the possibility of Norris simply being non-tendered by the Padres this winter. Instead, San Diego tendered him a contract and traded him back to the Nats, who avoided arbitration with Norris on a one-year deal worth $4.2MM.
Though his 2016 production (or lack thereof) diminishes Norris’ trade value, there’s also still reason to believe that the Nats could find a taker. Norris only just turned 28 years of age last week, and he’s just one season removed from a .250/.305/.404 batting line that is more than passable for a catcher. From 2013-15 he hit a combined .256/.333/.405, and he’s clubbed left-handed pitching at a .276/.353/.453 clip in his career as well (even including last year’s woeful output).
Norris has received well-above-average marks in pitch framing over the past two seasons, and while he’s been inconsistent in controlling the running game on a year-to-year basis, his career caught-stealing rate checks in at a roughly average mark of 26 percent. (He’s been as high as 34 percent in 2015 and as low as 17 percent in 2014.) Furthermore, Norris has two years of club control remaining. If he’s able to bounce back following a trade, his new team would have the option of retaining him through the 2018 season via arbitration. For a club without a clear answer at catcher or a rebuilding squad that could look to flip a rejuvenated Norris sometime in the next nine months, the extra year of control carries some appeal.
The majority of clubs around the league are set when it comes to a starting catcher, but there are still clubs where Norris can either slot in as a veteran backup or compete with a less-proven option for regular at-bats.
Looking around the league, here’s a rundown of some speculative landing spots for the 28-year-old Norris…
- Angels: The Halos were connected to Wieters at length over the past several months, but his price tag would’ve brought them extremely close to the competitive balance/luxury tax threshold. Anaheim is currently set to deploy light-hitting Martin Maldonado and Carlos Perez as its two primary backstops in 2017, though. For a club that hopes to reverse its fortunes in the American League West this season, that duo doesn’t come with an inspiring track record with the bat. Norris’ $4.2MM salary should be far more palatable for the Angels as well, and the cost of acquisition figures to be low, as the Nats are motivated to deal him. (In other words, the Angels’ lousy farm system won’t be a major deterrent in a deal.)
- Blue Jays: Toronto was tied to numerous veteran backups over the course of the winter but watched nearly all of them sign elsewhere. Now that they’ve released A.J. Jimenez, their primary candidates to back up Russell Martin are non-roster invitee Jarrod Saltalamacchia, whose was nearly as bad as Norris with the bat last season, and winter waiver claim Juan Graterol — a light-hitting minor league veteran with a solid glove. Saltalamacchia’s never been considered a great defensive catcher, and Graterol has less upside on offense. The Jays, though, may not be keen on paying $4.2MM to a backup, considering their payroll is already projected to be about $163MM.
- Brewers: Milwaukee reportedly kept tabs on Wieters in free agency, and their starting catching role is up for grabs at the moment, as MLBTR’s Jason Martinez recently profiled. Andrew Susac, Jett Bandy and Manny Pina are all in the mix for work behind the plate. If none of those options thrill the Brewers, there’s certainly room for Norris and his $4.2MM salary in the Brewers’ modest $66.4MM payroll (as Jason projects at Roster Resource).
- Diamondbacks: The D-backs seemingly have had some semblance of interest in every catcher with a pulse this winter, and while the cupboard is well-stocked with options for new manager Torey Lovullo, uncertainty still abounds in Phoenix. Currently, the D-backs will see Jeff Mathis, Chris Iannetta and Chris Herrmann vie for playing time. Non-roster invitees Hank Conger and Josh Thole are also on the periphery of the picture. Admittedly, the Diamondbacks feel like a reach, but the team’s new front office seems set on creating significant depth at the position.
- Rays: Another team that was heavily linked to Wieters near the end of his free agency, the Rays are set to open the season with some combination of Luke Maile, Curt Casali, Jesus Sucre and Michael McKenry behind the plate. (The latter two are in camp as non-roster invites.) Wilson Ramos was signed to a two-year deal this winter, so there’s some help on the way later in 2017, but Norris certainly seems like a reasonable fit to pair with one of the less-experienced options currently on the 40-man roster. And even when Ramos is healthy, he’ll likely see plenty of time at DH as he eases back into the rigors of an MLB schedule in the wake of last year’s ACL tear.
- Rockies: Reports on the Rockies all winter have suggested that they’re content with young backstops Tony Wolters and Tom Murphy. There’s little reason to doubt that the Rox are pleased with that duo (and with Dustin Garneau serving as a Triple-A depth option), but Norris would bring more experience to the table, which could help with what looks to be a very youthful pitching staff.
- Twins: Chris Gimenez and John Ryan Murphy are slated to battle for the backup gig in Minnesota, where Jason Castro will suit up as the starter in the first season of a three-year, $24.5MM deal. Neither has much of a track record at the plate, though Gimenez is a known commodity to both chief baseball officer Derek Falvey (from his time with Cleveland) and GM Thad Levine (from his time in Texas). Norris’ career marks against lefties and solid framing numbers make him a logical partner for Castro, and the two could form somewhat of a rough platoon. As is the case with the Jays, Norris would be a costly backup, though the Twins’ $94.6MM payroll projection suggests that there’s room to accommodate the salary.
- White Sox: The Pale Hose once again look set to entrust the bulk of their at-bats at catcher to Geovany Soto, who signed a minor league deal to return to the Sox this winter (and is reported to have an excellent chance of making the club). Unproven Omar Narvaez is on hand as a backup option, and the Triple-A ranks in Chicago don’t offer considerably more hope. The Sox and Nats are no strangers to trade talks this winter, and there have been rumors that the ChiSox would be interested in Pedro Severino in a deal involving closer David Robertson. Norris wouldn’t be a significant piece in a Robertson deal, though he could be thrown in along with a few prospects to help balance out the financial component of a deal. Alternatively — and perhaps more likely — he could be obtained in a smaller deal that doesn’t include any notable big league pieces going back to the Nats.
Where do you guys think he is going to end up?
Triple a
lol ain’t no one going to trade for him. The Padres tried for half a year to trade him.
Yeah I agree. Why don’t the Nats just option him, he’s got two remaining. It’s easy to say his production last year earned him that. Then they get to keep him around as injury insurance.
You don’t pay a guy $4.5 million to play in AAA. Plus, he’s not that far removed from being a very good offensive catcher.
That’s why hedges stayed in the minors and why it was so hard to trade him. The entire league knows Nats are in a desperate need to drop a catcher.
They won’t get anything worth wild if an offer comes in, but they’re better off sending him to triple a. Let him get his hitting game back and then play him in the majors
You have to remember, the Nats didn’t give up much to get him in the first place. If a team makes an offer close to what the Nats gave up to get Norris, they will jump all over that deal probably.
I think he has enough service time to elect free agency rather than accept a AAA assignment but I may be wrong
You need 5 years of service time to be able to elect free agency and not forfeit your salary. Norris has 4 years. He’ll accept an outright assignment before forfeiting his salary.
Not necessarily the dirty little secret is his contract is not guaranteed like most. If the Nats were to cut him before camp breaks they are not responsible for the entirety of his salary. So really it’s not in his hands if Was feels he’s not worth 4.5 mill to sit in AAA.
Is it really that crazy to think they’d pair a righty that can’t hit righties with a switch hitter that can hit lefties
Can’t*
1. Angels
2. Rays
3. Rockies
4. White Sox
5. Jays
6. Twins
That’s my order
Cron for Norris and Gott?
good try lol
Cron doesn’t really make sense for the Nats. Plus, the Angels would be getting way too little in that trade.
Cron has very little trade value. Zimmerman is entering his last year before he is a FA. That would give the Nats a first baseman for the next couple of years. And the Angels get the catching depth they need. And another arm in the bullpen. Which they will need.
They probably wish Zimmerman was an FA. Fact is they are stuck with that bad contract for three more years I believe.
Help no!
LAA need Cron to DH until Pujols is as close to 100% as possible from surgery. Realistically, Pujols’ durability in through the remainder of his career. I could see Cron following in the steps of Trumbo with regards to time before he is a consistent long ball threat.
Inb4 Pads Fans shows up to trash Norris
Got it he stinks
Good article by the way Steve. Norris would be a nice buy-low option for a team that doesn’t have an answer behind the plate. His BABIP is not going to stay as low as it was in 2016 and with that, neither will his other offensive stats.
I would love to see a three team trade between the Nats, W-Sox and Royals
Nats would get Robertson and Ramon Torres
White Sox would get Norris, Difo and Voth
Royals get Shields (taking on about $7-$8m of his $10m owed by CWS), Trevor Gott and Zach Thompson
Nats would get their desired closer and clear the logjam behind the plate
White Sox would get salary relief, prospects and a proven catcher to pair with Soto
KC would get a starter (maybe a return to where he excelled the most would boost his confidence a bit), a high upside reliever who could take over for Flynn (as Gott would likely go to AAA with the acquisition of Robertson) and a solid prospect (as a little sweetener for taking on the salary)
Now- like all comment board trade propositions, .let me address all of your negative feedback
— Voth, Difo and Norris is a good price for Robertson- Voth is nearly big league ready and can contribute in a big league rotation soon, Difo is blocked in Washington and could really be solid for Chicago at third (if they move Frazier) and the Sox need a catcher desperately.
— Royals would take on Shields because he is more proven than Wood (he would at least bring competition) and the fans know and love him. In a season in which they could see some of their best players shipped off by August 1st, it might ease the pain for them- and Shields could help mentor some of the young pitchers the Royals stand to acquire.
and I know Gott was rough in AAA last season= but bottom line- he’s high upside.
OK so– I’m ready to take whatever you have to throw at me- I just thought it was a good idea.
Royals get hosed in that deal.
Yeah not picking up a worn down Shields for sentimental value. Besides, we have enough 30+ starters. Wouldn’t mind having Norris in KC though. Need someone other than Butera that’s capable of catching some games before Ned runs Salvy into the ground.
I like it and so will Shields cause I’m sure the KC fans will treat him as well as the Sox fans have..not pretty…
plus I’d Love to see my Tigers tee off on Sheields numerous times this season…
Um…that’s already set to happen since he’s on the Sox lol
OMG WORST TRADE PROPOSITION EVARRR
If you think the Sox “need a catcher desperately” for this year, you don’t understand what they’re trying to do. They’ll be perfectly fine with whatever garbage they throw out there this year.
While I agree with you point in an offensive production standpoint, I think they would like a solid catch back there to help the young arms develop. Is Soto that person? Maybe, but as a Sox fan, I would value a better pitch framer back there
I don’t think the Royals would pay $7-8 million of Shields’ contract. The White Sox would have to eat more of that & I’m not sure if they’d want to do that
As a White Sox fan, I love this trade…. which probably means KC wouldn’t be into it (even if the Sox take on half of Shields money owed).
I’d love to see the Pirates bring Norris in to supplant Stewart and push Cervelli.
But, Stewart is so good at moving his glove slightly after the pitch that there’s just no room for a catcher who can hit home runs. So, us lucky Pirate fans get to watch him swing his wet newspaper once or twice a week.
I debated including the Bucs, but throwing $4.2MM at a buy-low catcher at this stage of the offseason when both Cervelli and Stewart are on guaranteed deals just seems like too much of a financial reach for them.
Oh, you made the right call.
They wouldn’t eat the salary on Stewart and they LOVE pitch framing and he’s supposedly good at it. But it’s like watching two pitchers hit when he’s in the lineup.
I would have thought the Reds would be on the list. Their catching options aren’t stellar, and Mesoraco has yet to have a full season.
They’re pretty optimistic re: Mesoraco, and with Barnhart and Turner both on the 40-man (with Turner needing to stick due to Rule 5 status), squeezing him in seemed tough.
Thanks, and that’s true, but they’re always optimistic about Mesoraco, alas to no avail. The other two aren’t very good.
I don’t think he’s a fit on many of those teams, but he might work as a short term fix for the Rays until Ramos is ready.
He might be in the mix in Milwaukee or LA Angels, but he really isn’t better than anyone else from the teams shown. Super limited market for him, it’s so thin the three teams could collude and wait til the Nats release him, then simply offer him the minimum in a FA deal.
1. Norris has options so they aren’t going to release him they’ll just stash him in AAA. Even if they want his 40-man spot he doesn’t have to consent to be outrighted he just has to clear waivers.
2. MLB is a perfectly competitive market. If one of those teams feels adding Norris will help them they’re not going to collude and hope the Nats release him and run the risk of him signing with one of the other teams.
The problem is that the Nats will have 6 guys on the 40 man plus Solano not on it. If Norris is in AAA, that blocks Kieboom and/or Severino from playing. They really need to shop 2 catchers, not just one.
He just has to clear waivers before being taken off the 40 man. So no team can wait until he is released and sign him for the minimum like JAF said. They can claim him and take his entire salary or he’ll go to AAA
I’m saying the Nats have no room to play him at AAA, regardless of the salary. Can’t play 2 or 3 catchers at once…
there’s no way Norris is in play for the Brewers let alone a possible fit. All 3 of the guys they have are better options moving forward and Susac would already be starting in MLB if Posey wasn’t in SF. He was a top prospect for a reason just didn’t have a spot at the MLB level. Susac/Bandy both have more power than Norris and all 3 of their catchers are average or better defensively. Norris hasn’t been good the past 2yrs. The only reason the Brewers were even paying attention to Wieters is because his price was drastically dropping and they just traded another AS catcher at the break. So if they could get a bounce back first half from Wieters, including 5 months of him working with the younger catchers so they could learn some things, they could do the same with him. The Brewers weren’t actively looking to bolster their catching situation but if a Wieters type is dropping in FA then he might be worth a gamble. Norris is far from Wieters
Its actually 6 catchers on the 40 man with Kieboom and Read!
Exactly. I know the title of this is “Potential destinations for Derek Norris” but that totally ignores the possibility of Norris in a platon with Weiters. Perhaps the question would have been better stated with Lobaton’s name substituted for Norris’ s. He’s a competent backup, he filled in well when Ramos was injured and he’s a good pitch framer (and 3 million cheaper than Norris).
All those are reasons they are keeping Lobaton and shopping Norris.
I think every team listed has better or at the very least cheaper options to use as their backups
To the Mets for Tebow!
Is Tebow a Boras client? lol
If Norris was the Nats would be about to extend him rather than DFA him.
Good luck moving him Nats.
This just begs for another MLB Trade Rumors poll question involving the Nationals catchers. Better hurry up guys, because once Matt Wieters is officially signed Washington will need to clear a spot off of their 40-man roster. That might be the one Derek Norris currently holds. Norris could very well be dealt sooner rather than later to accommodate Wieters on the Nats reserve list.
Maybe the Brew Crew
I hope the Rays take a shot on Norris. Even if he doesn’t get back to being 2013-2015 Derek Norris, he’s still a good defensive catcher and one of the better pitch framers in baseball (two things the Rays value highly) and they can just non-tender him after the season.
If he does find his bat again though, he can catch every day until Wilson Ramos is ready to get back behind the plate (and DH on the days Wilson does catch) and be flipped for a pretty healthy return after the season before he gets a raise in arbitration. There’s obviously some risk involved because $4.2M isn’t pocket change to the Rays like it is to some teams, but the front office has said they’re “hellbent” on a return to contention, and they aren’t going to compete without gambling on a few guys and having those gambles pay off.
i can see the angels trading for norris. It shouldn’t cost them much for norris because of his terrible 2016. He isn’t much of an upgrade over carlos and maldanado though.
I had thought Norris was a fit earlier in the off-season (when he was still a Padre) but I think that ship has sailed. If they weren’t willing to meet the miniscule asking price of SD I have a hard time believing they’ve had a change of heart. Maybe if they could get him at a discounted rate but seems like Eppler is more or less satisfied with the current roster.
I like his defense and would be willing to gamble on his bat regaining some potency (hard not to improve) but I doubt Eppler pays $4m for him let alone gives any prospect with a prayer of contributing.
You have to have prospects with a prayer of contributing to be able to give them up.
Trades for players like Derek Norris don’t cost anything.
Why does Arizona end up on this list?
That’s like the Ramones and the 5 drummers they had
Angels undeniably have the biggest need of all these teams, and they really need to find a way to get it done. Granted, Norris won’t be the difference between contention and non-contention, but he provides experience the halos totally lack at C.
I could see the Reds buying low on Norris if Mesoraco has any more setbacks.
I’m with you, even in favor of the Reds getting him now as insurance against such injuries / lack of production / lack of experience among the Reds’ catcher options.
If Mesoraco is healthy, I think I’d take the duo of Mesoraco/Barnhart over Norris. And neither of those two have a “lack of experience” in my opinion. Barnhart has proven he can handle a larger role behind the plate if needed, so it’s not really necessary to carry a 3rd catcher unless injuries are a concern. Only way I’d see the Reds making the move now just for insurance is if the Nats eat all of the salary.
IF Mesoraco is healthy. He hasn’t shown it yet, despite the annual optimism from the Reds FO. Not to mention the FO’s role in his weird rehab stints.
Should Mesoraco go down again, Barnhart as the #1 catcher is not a good plan. And the Reds would have to buy high then. Add your depth and options now.
Maybe I was a big unclear. The Nats don’t need to really trade a catcher until the end of spring training. The Reds could wait until the end of spring training, assess Mesoraco’s health, and then make a trade for him if necessary. Highly doubt Norris’s price will change a lot between now and the end of spring training.
“Maybe I was a bit unclear” is what that first sentence should have said
It’ll be funny if Norris ends up going to one of these teams on waivers just 3 months after the Nats traded the Padres a halfway decent pitching prospect for him. But I guess they owe us for the Trea Turner trade. If he is claimed by the Rays, then it would be even more justified cuz they got hosed even worse than the Padres in that trade.
Pedro Avila was hardly a prospect. Lottery ticket low-level arm.
He has a greater than zero percent chance of contributing to the next good Padres team. If Nats end up DFAing Norris it means they gave up Avila for nothing.
Everyone knows that Norris is already a Texas Ranger.
To the white sox as part of the Robertson deal
I think most teams are content at starting catcher, so he’d be a back up or platoon guy with a team that has a left handed starter that needs a platoon (ie stros have gattis so no dice) teams like the twins or even him going back to Oakland
I think norris will go to the Angels b/c let’s face it norris sucks and so do they so why not add another player that sucks
Braves could trade their closer Jim Johnson and prospect Lucas Sims (1st Round Choice-former MLB top 100) for Derek Norris and prospect Pedro Severino.
White Sox share duties with G.Soto/Norris nice combo
norris is the complete opposite of the bully eppler type player. He’s not a good defender and he’s not a good hitter, especially at getting on base. I don’t think Eppler has norris more valuable than perez or maldonado
WAS is being kind of unreasonable at this point: they want to acquire a closer without shipping prospects or money; and now NEED to move a C but it HAS to be a Norris (a guy with little to no value). This isn’t exactly how to get a deal done…
Severino + prospect to Sox for DRob + 10mil. Nats can option Lobaton to AAA where Sev would have been and platoon Norris with oft-injured Weiters. Read and Kieboom back to minors. WAS clears C logjam, gets a closer, and stays under cap.
I agree with this scenario depending on who that prospect might be. The perceived value of that prospect could easily kill a deal on either side of the equation. Rick Hahn may want another top-10 from the Nationals organization while Mike Rizzo could be wary of parting with anything more than a middle or lower level talent.
Another player from the Nats 40-man roster may need to be the solution, someone who is not OR is no longer considered to be a top prospect, somebody who would also be an expendable piece from Washington’s 2017 active roster. This player should also possess an ability to fill a need for the White Sox, preferably with some long term upside….which is a long-winded way of circling back to my original proposal of C Pedro Severino and CF Michael Taylor for David Robertson. lol
Would rather get lotto guys like combo of SS Yazel Antuna and OF Daniel Johnson than Taylor.
For the record, so would I. When I propose deals it’s not always based on personal bias. More often than not, I try to put myself in the roles of each GM and try to construct a deal that makes the most sense for each organization. I’m not looking to win a deal for one side or the other, just trying to find a fair compromise that benefits the goals of each club.