Yesterday, FanRag’s Jon Heyman wrote that the Orioles have “no intention” of shopping Manny Machado with just a year on his contract before free agency and a potential record-setting deal, and today MLB.com’s Jon Morosi reports that Baltimore is aiming to add two starting pitchers from outside the organization. (Morosi, like Heyman, hears that shopping Machado is not in the cards for the O’s this winter.)
Starting pitching was always likely to be a need for the Orioles, though depending on the caliber of arms that is targeted, adding two starters from outside the organization would be the Orioles’ most aggressive pursuit of starting pitching in recent history.
Despite the longstanding need, the Orioles’ rotation additions last offseason consisted of depth pickups Gabriel Ynoa, Alec Asher, Logan Verrett, Richard Bleier and Vidal Nuno (many of whom have wound up working in relief this year). One winter prior, the O’s additions via both trade and free agency included Yovani Gallardo and Odrisamer Despaigne. A year prior, Eddie Gamboa was the most notable rotation possibility added, and Ubaldo Jimenez was the most noteworthy add in the 2013-14 offseason. The O’s did also add multiple years of Wade Miley at the 2016 trade deadline, though that swap hasn’t paid dividends.
Orioles GM Dan Duquette and his staff will have no shortage of options on the free-agent market this winter. While a pursuit of the market’s top-tier arms may not be likely, the second tier of free agency will feature names like Alex Cobb, Lance Lynn, Tyler Chatwood, Andrew Cashner, Jason Vargas and Jaime Garcia.
Starting pitching is an acute need for the Orioles, to say the least, as the team’s 5.60 ERA, 5.18 FIP and total of just 811 2/3 innings from its rotation all rank among the bottom three in Major League Baseball. While a struggling rotation isn’t exactly new for Baltimore, the Orioles have been more in the bottom third of the league in each of those categories over the past few years than the bottom tenth as they are in 2017.
Chris Tillman has endured a stunningly precipitous decline this year, while Ubaldo Jimenez is having the worst season of his ill-fated four-year deal. Miley, too, is having a career-worst year, and Jeremy Hellickson has a 7.29 ERA with peripherals to match through nine starts since being traded. Most puzzling of all, righty Kevin Gausman was one of baseball’s least-effective starters in the first half.
The Orioles will no doubt show continued faith in Gausman, given his much-improved second half and relative youth (27 in January). Right-hander Dylan Bundy, too, figures to factor prominently into the Baltimore starting five next year. However, beyond that duo, there’s little in the way of certainty. It’s possible that the O’s could look to bring back either Tillman or Miley at a reduced rate, and aforementioned depth options like Ynoa, Asher and Bleier are all still on the 40-man roster. The Orioles are typically active in the Rule 5 Draft and could certainly look to add another option there as well.
The O’s need to push hard to get both Lynn and Cobb. A rotation of Lynn, Bundy, Cobb, and Gausman would be pretty good and the best the O’s have had in years. Then for the 5th spot they could plug in someone like Ynoa (he has looked good his last 2 starts) but preferably get a cheap lefty pitcher.
No shot. I’d be surprised if we got 1
Of the two but there’s no way on this earth we get both. Jaime Garcia might be considered because we need a lefty to add to the rotation. Other than that I’d say cashner because he’ll be affordable. That’d be my bet on how this offseason plays out. It’s not exciting but by default it’ll be an upgrade over the current group. I’d plug in ynoa as the 5 starter out of all the current options. We desperately need a Cobb or a Lynn but it’ll cost a lot and the orioles don’t spend on pitching.
Plenty of options and Gausman and Bundy are nice pieces. And as crazy as this sounds, I look to get Chris Tillman back on the cheap — no way can he be worse next year than he was this year, and I have seen him get better with his stuff over the course of the season (even if the numbers aren’t there yet).
Tillman’s the best bet on a reclamation project but that usually doesn’t happen on the same team with the same pitching coach. It’s more likely than not that soneone will fix him but i don’t see it being us. Gausman and bundy need to take a step forward next year. They are both mid rotation starters at best at this point. They can obviously be much more but right now that’s all they are. Our pitching is going to depend on them being front of the rotation starters, if they aren’t it doesn’t matter if we sign an Alex Cobb or a lance Lynn because it won’t be enough to make the push in the division.
Just say no to Tillman.
Would be surprised if Cubs didn’t try for Tillman. They love reclamation projects, and they’ve had their eye on Tillman forever
Seriously what do you think the odds are of the orioles spending 100mil + on 2 pitchers this offseason are. It’ll take more than that to get both Cobb and Lynn. dont see it
Lots of other teams will be lining up for starters as well. Chance of them being Orioles is fairly small. I hear Lynn or someone in the Lynn camp and the St louis camp are quietly talking. As far as Cobb goes, we might see a strong plan/push to sign him coming from out west.
No one cares or believes anything you say anymore, Jimmie. Your credentials & believability went right out the door.
Nobody desperately needs a number 2 starter. Look how signing Zimmermann worked out for the Tigers.
Dan is going to need one more thing; a new manager.
Buck must be sick of coming up short every year for different reasons.
A new manager? Ha. More like a new GM? If you’re taking DD over Buck you’re crazy.
That is the complete opposite, Twins fan here and paying a premium on mediocrity gets you no where, they need to take risks on high reward guys, see if they get strike lightning in a bottle
The O’s have never gone after even mid-level starters like Lynn and Cobb. Why do you think that Angelos will suddenly allow his GM to do that now?
The O’s may not be looking to shop Manny, but that does not mean the rest of the league won’t come calling. It puts Duquette in the position of being able to say “I’m only listening if you are willing to overwhelm me” instead of “what will you give me for him”. Something I read a few days ago said that Manny and the O’s don’t feel that they were that far apart when the last negotiations ended.
Also, as groundball pitchers I think Cobb, Garcia, and Cashner would be good fits for the plus defense Orioles. Lynn will scare off the O’s FO with his injury history and Chatwood leads the NL in walks. The O’s had enough of that nonsense this year with Miley, Jimenez, and Tillman.
Part of the Oriole pitching woes is inherently Camden Yards. In its own way it’s just as bad as pitching in Colorado. Free Agents pitchers simply aren’t going to want to come to the Band box & get pummeled. Add juiced up baseballs and monster sluggers, playing with the Orioles is akin to softball.
True, which is why they should target groundball pitchers in free agency. Guys like Cobb, Garcia, and Cashner.
Yeah, I’m not sure Zack Britton has given up that many homeruns at Camden Yards of late. The bottom line is good to great pitchers are still capable of pitching extremely well in Camden Yards. Avoiding the long ball is key of course but that has been done many times over.
Vargas and Cashner!!!
I’d sure go with Vargas. He might be one of the best under rated junk ball pitchers in the game right now. Cashner I think is about to get over paid. Might be a consistent mid 90’s thrower, but no command, low strikeouts and never really did develop into the top arm people thought he’d become. More of a Joe Kelly type.
I’d rather see Baltimore possibly seek Ricky Nolasco, another back end arm if the price drops to 4-5m on a 1y deal since he can give them 150-175IP like Miley did.
Ricky Nolasco can’t even keep the ball in the ballpark in Anaheim, what do you think would have in Camden. I guess, for the right price he’s OK
That’s the Orioles way under Angelos. Only go after mediocre or worse starting pitching in free agency and then overpay them.
I feel like they’re going to have at least one more Jimenez. Their future doesn’t look very bright so they’ll have to overpay to get averageish guys like cashner and Lynn
Meant Vargas not Lynn
Cobb would be a good pickup since he has so much experience in the al east
Why on earth did they trade 6 years of Zack Davies for 2 months of Gerado Parra. Thats an example for all the “go for it” people who think its ok to blindly make deals to “win now”
And trading for chapman won the cubs the world series. You can easily find examples for both sides if you want, but the old saying is if you want to win now, you have to make a trade that hurts later.
They will look for 5th starter types don’t get all excited O’s fans.
As for the Machado situation, they really should be shopping him. Baltimore is a middle market has to be creative to stay in competition. If they do resign Machado then the O’s become the Reds of the AL. When the Reds broke the bank to keep Votto, the wins stopped coming.
Do what the Marlins are going to do with Stanton this offseaon and get a whale of a return or like StLouis did with Pujols and let him walk. Sometimes you have to cut off the hand to save the body…I hope Baltimore don’t enter into a toxic contract
Re-sign Ubaldo!!!! He’s due!!!!
Miley too!!!! Can’t possibly perform worst!!! Can probably have them both for cool 25 mill!!!
Too bad the 0’s blew the Dexter Fowler signing with their moronic front office games
Didn’t realize Fowler was a two-way player. Ha!
Didn’t realize that Fowler’s agent got a free pass for blaming the Orioles for doing something they didn’t do. Fowler texted Adam Jones the day before, saying he was looking forward to playing with him in Baltimore. O’s didn’t do anything to change that, his agent went to the Cubs that night and got him a deal after he’d already given a verbal commitment to the Orioles.
No I think Fowler’s side was ironic and unprofessional.
Orioles back out on deals ALL time, calling it red flag on medicals. I guess they got a taste of their own medicine
Lance Lynn would be a great pick up
Don’t be surprised to see Miguel Castro as the #5 next year.
That could certainly work but how much durability he will have (he’s already reeling a bit in the second half of this year) is questionable.
O’s are in a similar situation to many other clubs, not enough quality starting pitching. And #1’s and #2’s cost a lot of near ready prospect capital to come via trade. So it’s either catch lightning in a bottle, spend big dough on free agents or spend the prospect captial that they don’t have a lot of. As someone said above, unless there is a big deal with major league players, the O’s are looking at #4’s and #5’s. it likely won’t be pretty.
Jimmie, your credibility has gone right out the door & it happened a long time ago. Give it up, change your name, come back without the BS. Heed the advice because your credibility is long gone.
Nolasco seems like the kind of pitcher they like.
how about a trade with the cardinals. sandy alcantara, dakota hudson, josh lucas, stephen piscotty, and randall grichuk, and aldymes diaz for machado in a trade and sign if he would do it
First off, no. Piscotty, Grichuk, and Diaz have already been sent back to the minors by a Cardinals team that was counting on them to be breakout stars, and they are at positions where the O’s have no room for them. In fact, if the O’s farm system has a strength, it’s outfielders. Second, there is no such thing as a sign and trade in MLB. This isn’t the NBA. In MLB, the collective bargaining agreement prohibits trading a player for six months after signing a free agent contract, IIRC.
Piscotty has that extension and he fell pff this year, diaz was down almost the whole year, grichuk is alright, and the other dudes are nothing special. I think weaver would have to be included. And you can kind of do sign and trades by the cardinals and machado find common ground on an extension and he verbally agrees to it before the trade.
A bunch of reclamation project prospects for arguably the best 3B in the game? Who the hell has space for a glut of players who are all ready for big league time now. That’s the cards problem. If you wanted a realistic proposal start with Alex Reyes or and work your way into some of that mess you proposed
I read the title of this article but with the word mediocre added.
That’s what it’s always been and I don’t see that changing as long as Angelos is the owner.
I can see hitters wanting to play for the O’s in that park, but pitchers not so much! I don’t see any of the top free agents signing with the O’s, they need to rebuild and trade some of their top position players. It is the only way they can get some good pitching. All the other teams in the East are way ahead of them on the mound., trading Machado makes the most sense.
If O’s aren’t willing to go out and sign 2 solid front line SPs this winter they might as well start selling. Bringing in different versions of Jimenez and Miley is pointless
I’m just curious, but as rough as the Orioles rotation has been. Would it be worth a chance to see how Britton would perform as a starter? I know he didn’t do well when he started a few years back but sometimes pitchers figure it out. Look at Arrieta!
No.
He’s having arm troubles in the bullpen and he’s learned how to be a dominant two pitch relief pitcher. you might as well suggest Aroldis chapman or kenley Jansen to start at this point. Never going to happen
If the O’s do decide to trade Machado, I don’t feel comfortable with DD at the helm for that franchise-changing event. MacPhail made DD look good during the O’s playoff years, as it was MacPhail who traded for Jones, Tillman, Hardy, Davis, and Hunter, drafted Machado and Wieters, and signed Schoop; that was the O’s entire infield, (C, 1B, 2B, SS, & 3B), CF, staff ace, and closer. I have no faith in DD being able to deliver that type of return.
With Angelos as the owner, when have the O’s ever gone after even tier 2 pitching in free agency? Its always lower tier and reclamation projects. Why would anyone think that is going to change?