The Twins are known to be on the hunt for rotation upgrades and have already been linked to top free agents Yu Darvish and Jake Arrieta, but they’re also poking around the trade market. Mike Berardino of the St. Paul Pioneer Press reports that Minnesota has spoken to the Pirates about Gerrit Cole and also engaged the Rays in discussions on Jake Odorizzi (Twitter links). Both righties come with two remaining years of team control.
It’s not at all clear that the Pirates intend to aggressively shop Cole this offseason, though as a low-payroll club Pittsburgh always has to willing to at least entertain offers for its top talents. Cole certainly falls into that category, though he had somewhat of a down season in 2017. The former No. 1 overall pick logged 203 innings with the Bucs, marking his second career 200-inning campaign, but he also posted a career-worst 4.26 ERA. That was largely attributable to to a massive spike in his homer-to-flyball ratio (15.9 percent), which led to a career-worst 1.37 HR/9 mark.
However, Cole’s 2017 season also came with cause for optimism. The 27-year-old saw both his strikeout and walk rates bounce back from 2016, as he averaged 8.7 K/9 and 2.4 BB/9 while maintaining a solid ground-ball rate (45.8 percent) and averaging 96 mph on his fastball. Cole’s average exit velocity of 85.4 mph ranked in the top quarter of the league (100th out of 438 pitchers, min. 100 batted-ball events). MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz pegs Cole for a $7.5MM salary next season.
As for Odorizzi, he’ll turn 28 in March and recently wrapped a season in which he tossed 143 1/3 innings with a 4.14 ERA, 8.0 K/9, 3.8 BB/9 and a more troubling 1.88 HR/9. Odorizzi has seen his walk and home-run rates increase each year since 2015. He’s averaged 30 starts per year in the past four seasons but has also averaged just 167 innings per year in that time. He’s projected to earn 6.5MM next year. As MLBTR’s Mark Polishuk noted in previewing the Rays’ offseason, Tampa Bay has a pretty notable payroll crunch, which could lead to plenty of Odorizzi chatter this season given his projected salary and relatively limited club control.
Of course, the Twins have one of the largest figures that any team can offer Japanese star Shohei Ohtani ($3.245MM), and Berardino tweets that the team is indeed preparing its pitch for the potential ace. He also notes that Minnesota is focusing more on the rotation than the bullpen. Top-tier names like Wade Davis and Greg Holland aren’t likely to be on the Twins’ radar, he notes, though second-tier options will be in play as the offseason wears on.
Why not try for MadBum? If the Twinkies also took Pence, that would clear enough payroll that the Giants could absorb Stanton. Perhaps a three team trade?
No way Giants trade Bumgarner.
Of course not. Silly to even consider it
Maybe the Twins can focus on their back up option if they can’t get MadBum…Clayton Kershaw….bwahahahaha
Johnny Cueto might work
His off field injury may have PO’d the Giants. Also, the Giants have failed MadBum over the last couple of years in terms of hitting and bullpen, so his stats are not up to the level he expects. He is only obligated to SF through 2019 via team options, then he can walk.
It can depend on how badly the Giants want Stanton AND want to keep their payroll reigned in.
dude you need to chill madbum ain’t going no where
Ha! The Giants are a complete dumpster fire. Worst record in mlb last year. No one is untouchable. Total rebuild is coming and Bumgarner is almost certain to go since he’s one of the few Giants with any market value. Even Posey is close to the end of his catching career. As a first baseman he’s a well below average stick among current mlb starters, no pop. See Joe Mauer. Lots of bad contracts, old players, no farm system to speak of. Prepare for a massive rebuild or many years of mediocrity.
Why not add Posey into the deal to shore up the catcher spot while you’re at it?
You mean 1B. Posey rarely plays catcher anymore and has not for 2 years
I don’t think you’d have to look far to find a team who would take on pence if they got Bumgarner in return.
Geez, may as well throw in Bochy & Posey while we’re at it.
Because the Twins are known for running big payrolls?
if the Giants were to trade bumgardner why would they also be trying to add by getting stanton. I don’t view the Giants as much of a contender another chance I do have is that mad bum Carry’s them
Because where they are lacking is offense. They need to shed veterans and payroll. They already have Cueto, Samardzija, Moore with Blach, Beede and Stratton waiting in the wings plus you send a pitcher on the cusp back their way.
They probably aren’t looking to trade him just yet. But come the trade deadline if they aren’t contending I think things will be different. He will cost a crapton of projects tho.
Dumbest trade ever. Why would the giants trade madbum if they plan on getting Stanton? If they get Stanton that means they want to compete.. so why trade away a top 10 pitcher? Lol.. I’m a cubs fan and that just sounds awful.
Samardzjia, maybe.
What’s the point of taking on Stanton if you precede it by trading Bumgarner? You trade Bumgarner and you are essentially declaring a rebuild which would render Stanton obsolete
Trading MadBum to get Stanton does not indicate a rebuild. You take from an area of surplus to boost an area of need.
I don’t think it’ll happen, but I wouldn’t say it signals a rebuild.
Giants have a surplus of pitchers like Madison bumgarner? Take mad bum off the giants and Stanton would be better off in Miami. Cueto shark and ty blach carrying the giants to the postseason?
I would say that of all the players on all the teams in baseball, Bumgarner is in the top-ten of guys least likely to be traded. He’s absurdly cheap, signed through 2019, and is the second-best player on a team that expects to contend.
Because the Giants are not giving up on 2018. Have to think they’re one of the contenders in the Stanton sweepstakes- if so, they need MadBum as their horse
I feel like this is just the twins doing their due diligence. They checked in on Cole last year too. They might get a slightly better price now. Twins need to grab two top end starters Cole, Archer, Darvish or Ohtani fit that bill. With that you will hopefully have berrios, Santana and maybe Gibson if he’s ready to compete for a spot.
If the twins do that the bullpen doesn’t look as rough because you’ll get some arms like Hughes and May back to toss in there. Young kids could break into it like Sale did his first year and so many others. They should still shop for a couple of decent arms or wait for prices to tank. Top starters tend to go a lot quicker.
You heard it here first: introducing your 2020 World Series champion Minnesota Twins!
TL:DR there WILL be an ace in the MN Roto by spring training…
-said no one ever.. lol.. no way twins win in the next few years. No way. They have no true stars.
You don’t watch much baseball do you? The twins have like 4 or 5 guys that are becoming stars plus Dozier and Santana that you could consider stars right now. Pretty much all the baseball pundits have said that this Twins team is poised to be a contender, but you must be smarter than everyone else.
Buxton and Sano?
They have a good young core of position players.
As a Pirates fan this was expected with Cole especially since he won’t be extended in all likelihood. I’m not to familiar with the Twins system. What do they have to offer prospect wise?
Nick Gordon… Dee Gordon’s little bro. Solid player, but there were a lot of questions about his future when the twins went heavy on SS in the draft including number one Royce Lewis.
There is some decent pitching like gonsalves and Romero
They have some pretty intriguing prospects. Heavier on the position players as far as Potential all stars but no shortage of at least solid pitching prospects, albeit no true Aces to show for.
Royce Lewis or Nick Williams? I don’t know if Cole would get either, but Williams is probably the most realistic.
I think Lewis is nearly untouchable right now.
I know the D-Backs GM was terrible, but the first overall has been traded in the last few years so it’s not like it’s impossible for it to happen. And at the rate starters are going right now, who knows. But I doubt Lewis gets traded.
I dont see them trading Lewis.MAYBE Gordon and then a pitcher, maybe felix jorge. Which would be a decent haul to startoff with.
I’m guessing you mean Nick Gordon. Nick Williams is a philly.
Royce is probably untouchable altogether, but I would assume he for sure is for a guy with only 2 years of control. They may be more open to it if a guy has four or more years of control.
Yeah I meant Gordon, and i agree that I could possibly see them moving Lewis for a guy with multiple years of control, but definitely not just 2.
Got it. Gordon probably is a guarantee to be involved in any trade the Twins make. Definitely would be a piece for Cole.
I would be ok with Gordon as a starting point. I forgot he was in their system. Obviously R. Lewis would be nice but not at all likely. I think Gordon and one of their top pitching prospects is fair. Twins get a solid rotation piece for 2 years with some cost control. Pirates get a SS prospect who likely could play a couple other positions as well. Hell, throw cutch in the trade and see what the twins would offer (not sure if they are looking for an OF upgrade, just having fun with it)
Cutch would be an offensive upgrade, but I don’t see a fit there. Twins have three league minimum OF of the future already. Plus they have a guy (Rooker) they just drafted who will probably be up in 2019 at some point. 2020 at the latest. Some say he’s an OF, some think 1B.
Either way, I don’t see a fit with three decent/good OF already. All of them are 26 years old and under.
coal for Gordon, Romero, Kirlof as a twins fan I would be hard-pressed to give that up but it could be good. what do pirets fans think
No way. Too much. Kirilloff is tough to judge since he missed this whole year but I’d say Gordon plus Romero/Gonsalves and a lotto ticket is fair enough for Cole.
Non-Twins/Pirates fan. That’s too much going to the Pirates for 2 years of Cole. If Gordon goes, I’d imagine a highly ranked pitcher (like Romero) and a backend lottery ticket type could go with him. Either that, or Gordon plus two guys in the 6-15ish range could get it done. Either way, I don’t see it taking 3 high quality pieces like Gordon, Romero, AND Kirlof.
Edit ^ what that guy said. Beat me to it by a minute.
I don’t even see that to be honest. I think the Twins are very high on Gonsalves and Romero and would consider them near untouchable for a player with only two years of control. I think Gordon and maybe a Kirlloff or Burdy would be the most they are willing to do, possibly throw in a lotto guy as well but I don’t think they would have any interest in trading away Gonsalves/Romero when this team is poised to be a contender for the next 5 years. The way I see it (and I think the Twins do as well) is that Cole is a solid number 2-3 type starter but he’s gone in two years (or possibly, either that or he needs a big payday) so why not keep both prospects when chances are one of them will at least be a number 2-3 type pitcher and you have him for longer? The Twins can make a run next year but they don’t need to go all in just yet, nobody besides Mauer and Dozier can really go anywhere., so get what you can this off season in FA or trades that don’t give up you top end pitching prospects and then see how the year develops and then make all your moves next off season or at the deadline.
Nick Gordon not Williams
Another website had a nice profile of Romero and they said his Comp was Carlos Martinez. If the pirates could get Gordon and Romero I think that’s certainly worth looking into. He seems to be almost MLB ready too.
I thought Cole would be put on waivers before he would ever be traded. I wonder what kind of other top prospects the Twins could get along with Cole for pretty much nothing.
Most likely the Pirates will trade the prospects with the Twins along with Cole in a salary dump. So maybe Meadows along with Cole.
You heard it here first: presenting your 2020 World Series champion Minnesota Twins!
By hook or by crook there WILL be an ace in the roto by spring training….
I “heard” it a couple posts above this one first since you posted it twice, so you’ll have to edit this post to say “you heard it here second”.
If I could figure out how to delete or edit my comments you would have heard it only once. Alas, I can tell you a fourth time
I quit
I would definitely like to add Cole. All reporters seem to be saying they think the Twins will trade more than they will sign FA.
Yes? Cole would be a solid get
I don’t remember the last time I was actually excited for what might happen during a Twins offseason.
Offseason before 2010 was the last time for me. Actually it’s probably the only time until now. For the first time ever the Twins did exactly what I wanted them to: trade for Hardy, sign Thome and Hudson.
I felt like a Yankees fan that offseason. Funny/sad considering those players would probably be too plain for a Yankee fan to get excited about.
Hardy was a good get that year. So many good years for him after that… only they were with the orioles. Still waiting on that Hoey guy. Any day now. I mean you wouldn’t trade an all star short stop for a fringe farm hand that never had a chance of cracking a major league team, right?
I remember that offseason well, and it yielded a 94-win season.
I heard through the grapevne there was an issue between Hardy and Mauer.
I’ve heard that too, which is weird since the two were friends for many years before he became a Twin. I’m not sure it’s true.
Wouldn’t really surprise me if Gardy and all really didn’t think Hardy was that good and thought Nishioka would fix the problem. So many people underrated Hardy. It was ridiculous.
There was clearly bad blood, but he was worth way way way way way more than the twins got. Hardy went on the big rant after going to the Os on how the twins weren’t helping his injury, and were asking him to change things about his game he didn’t want to change. I wouldn’t doubt it in that regime. He thought he was a slugging SS and he was right.
Having watched Cole since the beginning, I can say that I was never overly impressed. That incredible upside he had a few years ago just flatlined. The guy just thinks he can muscle 98 mph fastballs and occasionally changed speeds and eye angles. It’s the same old story—one or two times through the lineup and then crash and burn
I don’t see the Twins and Pirates matching up for a trade. It makes little sense for the Pirates to pick up prospects 3-5 years away from the majors in a Cole trade unless they blow up the team and trade Cutch, JHay, Nova, Cervelli and everyone else with 2 or less years of control given that Cole would fetch the biggest return. Therefore Lewis, if he were on the table which I doubt, and Alex Kiriloff which would be cool for him having grown up in Pittsburgh but I think he had season ending surgery anyway, would both be nice to have, no doubt, but not if the Pirates are trying to compete in 2018 as they seem intent on doing. Whether or not they should is debatable.
That leaves Nick Gordon, Gonsalves, or Romero to headline a deal which doesn’t make sense for the Pirates either with Kevin Newman and Cole Tucker as middle infielders in the upper minors already and about 8 AAA starters they already need to sort out which makes Gonsalves and Romero less attractive. Now if Miguel Sano comes up in talks then I could see it potentially happening.
Pirates need to be some what realistic though. Cubs are already good, Brewers might add impact FA’s and the Cardinals are are looking for big upgrades . Now might be the time to trade veteran pieces and get better. I’d keep JHay for the versatility. But Cole, Cutch, Nova and to a lesser degree Cervelli could bring back some interesting pieces. And you still have JHay, Bell, Polonaco, Marte, Glasnow and Meadows on the way.
Gordon, Romero and Lewis Thorpe is somewhat comparable to the Sonny Gray return. Not perfect but in the ballpark. That’s two top 100 prospects and a nice lottery ticket. That might be realistic for a guy like Cole.
agreed
As a Rays fan, we’d be thrilled to trade Odorizzi for Gordon. Make it happen Twins fans! For Archer, a top prospect or two and a pretty good young MLB regular would be required (e.g., Sano, Rosario, or Berios). Since I’m sure all the Twins fans will object to that package, I doubt the Twins and Rays line up on an Archer trade.
I don’t think the Twins and Rays match for Archer. I feel the Twins don’t have the prospects to do it. They do if they include an MLB player, but I don’t think they do that unless they believe the rod in Sano’s leg makes him a DH only. I’d love to have Archer though.
Me neither. Frankly, I don’t see Archer being traded during the off-season. Perhaps at the trade deadline if the Rays are out of it and their young pitchers are all pitching well (Snell, Faria, Honeywell, and DeLeon).
I wouldn’t give up Gordon for odrizzi. maybe remero bit more likely thorpe and enlow
I could see Enlow being part of the package. The Rays are probably looking to add a MLB position player and a high upside prospect several years out. Of course, they could use Colome to add MLB talent and Odorizzi to get the prospects. Time will tell.
Enlow might be on the table for a blockbuster, but the twins clearly view him really highly. They designed their draft to get him and paid a lot. He was high on a lot of boards, but there were way too many doubts on his signability.
I doubt he’s untouchable, but considering the efforts the twins went through to get him, I doubt he’ll be just a kicker to any trade.
As a cubs fan I hope we trade with the rays and get archer and colome.. I like a trade of Baez or Happ and strop and 2 prospects in the 3-10 range.
If i was the Pirates GM I’d say sure… Cole for Sano. Done. Pitching is way harder to find than position players. Twins wouldn’t do it though.
I don’t think the Twins would do it because I believe Sano is worth more than Cole. It’s four years of control for Sano vs two for Cole. Sano has missed time due to injuries, but still has put up good numbers for a 24 year old.
Pitchers are a premium, but it’s rare when MLB players are traded for MLB players. It’s usually prospects for MLB players or MLB players for prospects. I don’t see this being any different. And if the Pirates trade Cole, I’m guessing they’d be rebuilding and trading other pieces too. Otherwise there is no reason to trade him. He’s the second best pitcher they have (I like Tallion above Cole).
I have zero clue what it’d take for Cole. I would think Gordon would be the top chip, but someone said the Pirates already have near ready MI. Though it looks like Gordon is younger and better than Newman so it would be an upgrade.
Sano probably is worth more than Cole, I just think it would be an interesting framework for both teams to fill their biggest needs. Maybe something like a Sano for Cole and a Luis Escobar or Will Craig to even it out.
Also Gordon is probably better than Newman but between Newman, Cole Tucker, Kevin Kramer, Adrian Valerio, and Stephen Alemais there’s barely enough playing time for all these guys to develop as it is.
I agree Sano is worth more when you count years of control. But when you count potential impact of a maybe ace and a maybe cornerstone position player, the pitcher wins every single time. So Cole has the potential to be much more valuable. I think the trade is more fair than most people would think.
Doubt the Pirates want to go into “rebuild mode” and instead just be in “maybe we will make the wildcard every once in a while mode” while usually hovering around or just below mediocrity.
I agree. Cole for Sano.
Good luck with that
Love to deal Cole for a nice return, but an Ivan Nova to the Twins deal makes a lot more sense.
Twins are one of the few teams to whom he’d represent a big upgrade. Similar to the Royals getting Volquez in 2015.
I wanted Nova when he was a FA, but after the numbers he put up in 2017, I’d call it a bullet dodged.
No way the Twins trade for Nova, unless Pit just give him away.
The Twins started Bartolo Colon in a pennant race.
They did, unfortunately. The reason they had to was because they lost 3 SP to injuries (May, Hughes and Santiago). Kind of hard to prepare for that amount of loss. I’d assume most teams expect to lose only 1-2. Twins have struggled with pitching depth for years anyway so it nailed them hard.
The depth next year should be better as they are likely not counting on any of those three (one is a FA). They have the depth of Santana, Berrios, Gibson, Mejia, Gonsalves, Slegers, Jorge and Littell to start the season, as of now.
Now with that list it is very clear that the ML depth is poor. Three locks at most. It seems very likely that the Twins are going to add to it via trade or FA based on everything that has been put out there. That would push guys down a slot and increase the depth.
Hopefully they will not need to worry about losing so many guys next year. Then they wouldn’t need a Colon type As far as Nova in relation to this, it just doesn’t make any sense. There are a lot of meh guys available on one year deals who could provide the same output as Nova. No need to trade for it.
as a twins fan I’d love to have nova at good current price but I wouldn’t give anything up for him
cole’s exit velocity was just outside the top quarter.
Twins are the rarity in that they maybe are hoping for Cole in their Christmas stocking.
good one
Pirates won’t trade Cole. GM won’t get out of comfort zone and take a chance. Bucs need a catcher, shortstop and relief help . Don’t really see that coming from twins.
The pirates are going to be horrible next season anyhow. Make Cole available for trade, make it into a bidding war and take the best package of prospects the winning team offers.
That’s the best thing the pirates can do if they ever hope to complete in mlb ever again.