Darren Wolfson of KSTP tweeted today that while the Twins remain “engaged and interested” in regards to a few big name free agent pitchers, there’s no indication yet that they are “in heavily” on anyone. While that can change quickly, Wolfson acknowledges that the trade market is also a very real possibility. It would seem that Minnesota is in a position to take their time in exploring all possible options. It makes plenty of sense to wonder whether the Twins might wait to see where Shohei Ohtani signs before making any significant pitching acquisitions. The market for pitching is likely to hold fast until the two-way Japanese sensation picks a landing spot, and on the off-chance that he chooses Minnesota, they might be able to focus their resources on other areas of the roster. A particularly weak bullpen comes to mind as another area the Twins will need to improve upon if they expect to contend again in 2018.
More notes out of the American League’s central division…
- While the Tigers probably won’t be serious pursuers of big name free agents this offseason, Katie Strang of The Athletic provides a short list of potential bargain buys for a depleted Detroit rotation. Strang notes that Michael Fulmer is coming off elbow surgery, while veteran Jordan Zimmerman has spent the offseason overhauling his delivery in hopes to return to form after a disastrous 2017 season. Beyond them, Matthew Boyd and Daniel Norris aren’t sure bets to hold down rotation spots. Chris Tillman, Miles Mikolas and Clay Buchholz are some interesting names Strang suggests as options for the Tigers to explore. While none are particularly exciting, they all have some upside as comeback players and could eat innings for Detroit in 2018.
- Although the Red Sox are players for White Sox slugger Jose Abreu, Scott Lauber of ESPN notes that the south siders are reportedly asking for “an arm and a leg” in exchange for their first baseman. Boston might not have the prospects necessary to swing a deal; the White Sox were able to land huge hauls for Chris Sale and Adam Eaton last offseason and might be holding out for a similar return for Abreu. The Cuban native has put up a .301/.359/.524 batting line for his four-year major league career. His slugging percentage and 124 home runs both rank 13th in the majors during that span, while his 410 RBI rank 5th. MLBTR’s Mark Polishuk recently detailed the trade market for Abreu.
I could see the White Sox GM holding out hoping he can get another haul from the BoSox and then another team ends up getting Abreau from the ChiSox for a lot less
@WFG1
How would that be different then just about every trade scenario where team A contacts team B about one of their players and Team B responds to the “ask” with a high demand but ultimately settles for not that extreme be it with team A or another team?
The Red Sox always expect they’re going to job other teams out of their best players. Guess what? You want an ace or all-star slugger in their prime, expect to pay it. Only the Yankees get away with fleecing the rest of the league in trades.
You do realize they gave up the top prospect in baseball, plus more, for Sale right? Not sure how that constitutes doing anything other than paying for it.
How many top prospects have the Red Sox traded away since Dombrowski came in? They have hardly been fleecing anyone…
@chisoxcity
Do you even watch baseball? Bosox paid a premium to your White Sox for Sale as they should have had to pay.
Who have the Yankees fleeced? The White Sox in the Robertson trade?
Of course the Red Sox paid, that’s my point. After listening the Red Sox fans bellyache about Sale not being worth this or that, they eventually pulled the trigger. They should have paid a lot more, imo. Players like Sale and Abreu almost NEVER get traded.
abreu isn’t even close to the same league as sale. he is much more expensive and not nearly as good or in as valuable of a position. market for bats is down
Buchholz or Tillman? I’m not a big proponent of signing proven stiffs or “innings-eaters”, using rebuilding as an excuse. It should be an insult to the fans who know there is no upside to either of them. I’d rather see Boyd or Norris get hammered with the hope they would eventually get it than pay someone for just showing up when it’s his turn in the rotation.
The upside is to sign a veteran to a bargain deal giving the younger guy more time to develop stoping service time and then being able to flip the veteran at the deadline for a future piece gaining service time of a future piece.
DUH! I fully understand the concept and learned that at age 8, but Boyd and Norris are already getting service time. My point is that the concept is flawed. (See below regarding Pelfrey from someone who gets it).
Agreed… but if you can sign somebody to a one year deal and they are effective you can flip them for a prospect at the deadline. You only pay 2/3 of the contract that way too.
It’s also possible to draw to an inside straight “if” you get your card, but they’re also taking a spot in the rotation from someone who should be a legitimate prospect. Let’s face it; Tigers management is doing nothing more than plugging a hole with someone who’s going to get rocked on a regular basis and then act as if it’s a puzzling occurrence.
Every team, including the Tigers, have to be able to cover the innings of a major league season. Norris hasn’t shown he can stay healthy. Zimmermann hasn’t been effective. Boyd has been inconsistent. Rushing the top pitching prospects is not a proven strategy. I am all for taking a flier on Tillman, because of the youth, and past effectiveness.
You’re comment about Norris and Boyd make no sense unless you also apply the same logic regarding Tillman and Buchholz and if that’s the case, it would be absurd to consider signing either one. Regarding Zimmerman, whether or not he’s effective is irrelevant because of his contract; they’re going to drag him out there every 5th day no matter what. He’s only about a year older than Tillman and also has “past effectiveness” so why not be optimistic about him?
The Tigers tried an inning eating comeback candidate when they signed Mike Pelfrey. I hope they don’t replicate the mistake..
Pelfrey was nothing to begin with. I do agree with avoiding Bucholz at all costs, but Tillman was a reliable number 3 that DID throw large amount of innings up until 2017 and is still young. Doubt he gets anything but a 1 year reclamation contract either now and is better than can be hoped for out of Bud norris
I am with you and lysander on this. Detroit, the entire organization, has a long way to go with pitching. The talent always seems to be at the A level and then fizzles out. Never anything at AAA, and meanwhile they plug the holes at the MLB level with free agent signings that have not worked out, to put it mildly. They need to acquire, not names, but a good deal of higher level pitching talent.
“Innings-eater” is a strange concept as something to value, especially as applied to pitchers who can go no longer than 5 innings and give up enough runs to lose a ballgame in that span. No one speaks of plate appearance eaters or values defenders for “innings eaten.”
Good for Hahn, standing his ground. There’s no immediate need to trade Abreu. I don’t see the BoSox as a fit.
Since Boston is actively pursuing Abreu , Boston thinks there is a fit. As mentioned elsewhere, Boston is probably looking for another team to take part in a 3-way trade. Abreu to Boston, Boston player(s) to team X and prospects from team X to Chicago. This is, of course, all speculation! That’s what the off season is all about!
Abreu to the Giants for Shaw & Panik after the Stanton trade falls thru and then the Giants deal Belt & Beede to the Rays for Mallex Smith & Colome
the White Sox wouldn’t want Panik. the Rays wouldn’t want Belt’s contract. Keep dreaming…
And the White Sox want a 27 year old second baseman because?
Switch Panik with Arroyo, and you could probably get Hahn interested at least.
How about trade belt for the additional prospects to nab Abreu AFTER landing Stanton?
Lol it’s fun to dream
The Indians would love Belt if they strikeout on re-signing Santana. If the Giants send Panik to Miami, Kipnis would be an ideal fit for SF.
As a baseball/Cubs fan, I can’t see the White Sox getting anything less than an Arm and a Leg for a guy like Abreu.
Why are you even commenting as a Cub fan. You should be more worried about your team not having any pitching. And oh by the way Hahn totally fleeced the Great Theo in the Quintana trade.
Why do you care if a Cubs fan is commenting? Are Cubs fans not allowed to compliment a White Sox player in your world?
Rule 1 of being a cubs fan: You don’t talk about being a Cubs fan. Wait, I may have that wrong…
I’ve yet to meet a cubs fan that didn’t talk about being a cubs fan. or at least if I have, they haven’t mentioned it.
Because they are a baseball fan that has seen Abreu play the last 4 years more then someone that did not live in Chicago
Guessing he’s commenting because a Cubs fan might be seen as having a bias against the Sox and perhaps their players as well, so the fact that he still thinks Abreu should garner that type of return should maybe tell you something.
Or he’s just a baseball fan. As a White Sox fan that’s also a baseball fan, I can totally respect that.
If the Twins could put together a nice package come get Cole from Pittsburgh.
I’d suggest Tony Olivia and Rod Carew, in their prime.
Hope BoSox sign Hosmer or Santana in near future, so they move on from lamenting ask price for Abreu through the media. Not a good fit anyhow. No fan of Cubs, but Theo/Jed were real pros working quietly with Hahn in the background to get Q while other suitors whined. They have mutual respect and afterward Theo flat out said no deal could be made w/o including Eloy……and he didn’t blame Hahn for holding firm.
No no Hosmer. Would be furious if we sign him. JD or Santana. Prefer Abreu but prob not an option
I had no idea Abreu was already approaching 31. I guess since he’s only been in the league 4 years I thought he was still 27ish.
As a White Sox fan, I wish he was still 27. An extension would be a no brainer then.
He’s probably actually 37
He does appear to have some of that old man strength.
A Cuban 31 is like 27.
or 34
I see the Red Sox ultimately signing Santana for 1B and then signing JD Martinez after they’ve dealt Jackie Bradley Jr. BOS should also seriously consider Howie Kendrick to fill in at 2B and 3B as needed.
I doubt any of that will happen. Wishful thinking but that’s not DD’s world.
they won’t get both 2 much $$
Wrong Jordan Zimmerman link
I don’t think the red sox should go after Abreu. There are plenty of good first baseman on the free agent market and although they are not as good as Abreu, they won’t cost most of what’s left of the farm system.
this
Makes sense. Truth be told, I don’t think Hahn would want Groom, Chavis and Travis if all three were offered, which makes anything beyond that a bad deal for the Red Sox, especially if Hahn is asking for any main roster guys like Devers or AB.
I mean, I wouldn’t put it past Dombrowski, but still, I think the White Sox would want more than the Red Sox would be prepared to pay. If Abreu is moved, which the Sox don’t have to move him, I could see Colorado lining up well system-wise. As for the Red Sox, Santana seems like s decent fit, though they’d still have to go searching for more power elsewhere, I’d think.
Umm how are Norris and Boyd not sure bets?
They need to put it all together in a full season before you could consider them sure things
Not sure bets?
Neither of them are good. They are not MLB starter material. They haven’t even shown glimpses of being solid.
That sounds like someone who has only looked at the final numbers, not actually watched them pitch. When healthy, Norris has electric stuff. He has the potential to be a #1 or 2. Boyd has the potential to be a reliable 4.
??? Do you even follow MLB?
Actually, they are very likely “sure bets” to get 20-30 starts. They wouldn’t be if the Tigers were considered contenders, but they have enough experience to be able to handle a full season, even if they don’t finish with stellar records; just so there’s significant progress. They’re competing with Buck Farmer, so it’s not as if they’re trying to crack an all-star roster.
Yes, anyone who actually follows the Tigers knows that they are in the 2018 rotation until and unless they pitch themselves out of it or get injured. I can see where a casual glimpse at statistics might cause one to conclude that they are not very good, but “not MLB material” takes this a bit too far. They are beyond the tryout stage.
Abreu isn’t actually worth very much given his age and cost. Clearly WS aren’t serious about moving him.
I agree with this. White Sox have zero interest in moving him currently but will listen. If an offer blows them away, they take it
Sox farm system should be deep enough by now. Gonna add to it with very high draft picks next 2-3 years. With all the latin prospects coming up having pros like Jose & Avi to show them the right way to play is essential. If Jose was 27 instead of 30 it’s a no brainer to extend him. Trade 4 Shields is puzzling do not want to see him in Sox uni next yr, maybe Rick can get a ham sandwich for him. Renteria is no Bobby Cox but he is a major upgrade from Robin. Keep Abreu & hopefully be competitive in 2019 Jose’s last yr under contract
they traded for Shields when they thought they were contending
When I chew cud, I take my time and make it last all day.
Abreu will never be worth as much as he’s worth right now. He may be 31, but he’s put up consistent numbers each of the last four years he’s been in the majors, averaging 30/100 with a .300 average. Over that span, he’s ranked 13th in slugging and 5th in RBIs.
He’s also under control for two more years at a far more reasonable rate than a guy like Hosmer will get in free agency. If you don’t think all of that adds up to solid trade value, then I don’t know what to tell you.
Here again DD was just kicking the tires in his one seeing what they wanted for Abreu but was probably told Benintendi. If I was DD I would offer Chavis, Mata and Travis and if that’s not enough then move on. Go sign Santana he would fit in on the team nicely and then wait out JDM for his price to go down. I’m sure his slow pace is killing DD he likes to get his shopping done early.
So your saying for Chavis cause the white sox would have little to no interest in Mata and Travis. White Sox have two first base prospects in Casey Gillespie and Gavin Sheets. Mata is a possible fourth starter, and the white sox have a dozen better pitching prospects.
Your wrong about Mata but that’s what I would offer if they say no then so be it move on they don’t have to have Abreu lots of free agent options.
The problem with you opinion on who the white Sox want is all wrong. The White Sox want prospects, that’s all. The window for seriously competing for the World Series has been publicly stated to be 2020. Boston’s problem is that their farm system has already taken a hit.
But, of course, stranger things have happened before!
Mata would be exactly what they would want an 18 year old who pitched really well in the Sally league is exactly he type of prospect that the White Sox would be interested in. I’m not sure DD would part with him though he seems to like his upside. I’m just saying what I would offer for Abreu if they do t like no big deal I think Abreu would be a good a good addition to the Red Sox but if that’s not enough I wouldn’t go any more then that.
My problem wouldn’t be with Mata, it’d be with Chavis. I personally don’t find him interesting enough as a headliner to part ways with Abreu. Just my 2 cents – maybe Hahn views him differently.
Chavis has seen his star rise really quickly he has big time power we will see about his hit tool. He is blocked in Boston just the type of prospect that DD would trade even though he has really good upside. His defense is questionable at third but he played really well this year and did well in AFL. This year will be big for him we will see.
Me2 i hope for Santana at 1b but i trade Bradley and Chavis plus Mata for Marcell Ozuna! Cozart or Nunéz at 2b
As far as the R Sox being held up for Abreu–it depends on whose arm and whose leg we are talking about.
My suggestion:
Xander even up OR JBJ and Mata. The RSox then sign Cozart.
They can’t sign all their young players long term–Betts, JBJ, Xander, then the next wave Bene, Devers and Vazquez. In addition you have Sale, Pomerantz and Pen arms shortly.
Abreu is 31 he will be 33 for his next contract–DD should make the deal contingent on a 72 hr. window to negotiate an extension.
What about Justin Bour for the Red Sox? That would be a good fit, in my opinion. Maybe package him in a deal with Straily and/or Prado +$3-4 million per of his deal? I feel like those guys fill holes/give the Red Sox added depth in areas of need, come with years of control, and dont cost much, which helps them try to avoid the luxury tax, and wouldn’t cost their any of their top prospects. Maybe those 3 and the money for Sam Travis, Josh Ockimey, Bryan Mata, Jaylen Beeks, and Hildemaro Requena? Throw a reliever towards the Red Sox if necessary?
A big package like Bradley,Travis,Swihart,Chavis and Owen for Ozuna and Bour
Who says no to this deal?
Good or bad for Us??? Ozuna is verry good( .300+ 38hr and 124rbi) Bour .260 25hrs 60+ rbi and only 25years old
I personally feel that type of deal doesn’t make sense for either team right now. It doesn’t go with what the Marlins would be looking for in deals, as they need arms. Chavis is enticing, but that’s pretty much it there. I was wondering more about the one I mentioned. I’m a fan of both teams, and I think it makes sense
Is too much for Bour and Prado get injure all the time more then Nunéz! What do you think abot trade Bradley for prospects, then sign Carlos Gonzalez for Lf put Benitendi cf and Carlos Santana at 1b! Nunéz at 2b
I don’t think DD is trading JBJ for prospects and hurt the outfield defense unless a significant addition is added such as JDM. I would much rather have JBJ then Carlos Gonzales. The Red Sox still have a very good team even if they do nothing there is excellent chance they will be much better offensively next year then they were this year. They will add a first baseman via free agency or trade and will be in on JDM when his ridiculous asking price is reduced. The Red Sox will be just fine.
You think JDM is better defence then Gonsalez??200m for a Dh? Bradley don’t hit! Look at the number for Gonsalez only 133 games in 2017
Yet he hit better then Gonzalez the last two years. You missed my point they aren’t trading Bradley unless they get an offensive difference maker which it appears that JDM would be. They would just hide JDM in left which doesn’t need as much range in Fenway. Why would they get Cargo who was worse offensively and way worse defensively then JBJ.
You sure abot that? Cargo .298 25hr 100rbi in 2016 150games! In 2017 .262 14hr 57rbi!! Tell me when Bradley produce 100rbi??
Hey, Red Sox fans. Would you trade Jackie Bradley, Jr. for Nicholas Castellanos? Asking for a friend.
Yes I’m positive about that JBJ was a 5 war player in 2016 way better then Cargo and he was better in 2017 as well so yes he was better both years really not even close.
nool,
I don’t think Boston is trading JBJ at all unless they sign JDM but trading for Castellanos doesn’t make any sense the Red Sox have Devers to play third.
You said he hit better ,Not war!!
Thanks, Bruin. Trying to get a read on what the Boston fans think about the likelihood of Bradley being traded. I have seen suggestions that the Red Sox are supposedly desperate for offense. Castellanos is offense at an affordable price. He’s a defensive liability, but he is a somewhat *flexible* liability there and could be deployed at 3B, corner outfield, or even (no liability) DH. Maybe Devers is a sure thing, but is he a sure thing right now? Bradley is a good player I wouldn’t trade unless I considered him to be a surplus. Don’t know if the Red Sox see him that way. But I am rather familiar with their current GM. He’s a dealer.
He did hit better offensive war, wrc, all the advance stats are better for JBJ.
Even if twins sign ohtani they need to sign another starter
The Cardinals will still have the money and prospects even if they happen to obtain Stanton before.
Tigers should go after Smyly….
$1MM this year, Club option for $8MM next year and vesting option (30+ starts) for $12MM for the year after that.
Coming off TJ Surgery, they are simply planting a seed that they can trade or keep as they rebuild. They can afford to be patient.
I like the thought, but why would Smyly tie himself up for 3 years for only a $1mm guarantee?
I was sorry to see Smyly go and wouldn’t mind having him back with Detroit, but how is this a good deal right now?