5:34pm: Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic tweets that the Pirates are covering $2.5MM of McCutchen’s $14.75MM salary.
5:25pm: It became all the more clear on Monday that Pirates fans are looking at the end of an era, as the team announced that face of the franchise Andrew McCutchen has been traded to the Giants (along with cash considerations) in exchange for young right-hander Kyle Crick, outfield prospect Bryan Reynolds and $500K worth of international bonus pool space.
Outfield help has been a priority for the Giants all offseason after last year’s collective unit combined to bat .253/.311/.374 in more than 2000 plate appearances. Inserting McCutchen into that mix should provide a significant boost on the offensive side of the equation, as the 31-year-old turned in a very strong rebound campaign at the plate in 2017, hitting .279/.363/.486 with 28 homers (his highest total since hitting 31 back in 2012).
Of course, questions about McCutchen’s glovework persisted in 2017 — and it should be noted that the Giants’ outfield defense was the worst in baseball last year. San Francisco outfielders combined to post an MLB-worst -45 mark in Defensive Runs Saved, and they ranked just 28th with a -11.4 Ultimate Zone Rating. The since-traded Denard Span played no small role in those shortcomings, but McCutchen’s marks of -14 and -4.5 in those respective stats don’t exactly stand out as an indicator that an extensive amount of help is on the defensive horizon.
If the Giants were to play McCutchen in an outfield corner, perhaps he could post more meaningful contributions in that regard. At present, he figures to line up in center field, though the Giants could yet play McCutchen in left field and acquire a cost-effective center field option with a stronger defensive reputation (someone in the mold of Jarrod Dyson, speaking from a speculative standpoint).
However, it’s important to note that there may not be room for the Giants to make much of an addition. San Francisco will add more than $9MM to its luxury tax ledger by picking up the final year of McCutchen’s deal, which should place them roughly $7MM from the threshold. San Francisco has reportedly been aiming to remain under the tax cap in order to reset its penalty level.
[Related: Updated San Francisco Giants depth chart & San Francisco Giants payroll]
For the Giants, McCutchen is the second notable veteran bat the team has landed via trade this offseason. San Francisco also picked up Evan Longoria in a trade that sent Christian Arroyo, Span (plus the remaining year of his contract) and a pair of minor league pitchers to the Rays. Depending on their willingness to either shed additional payroll or pivot and exceed the luxury tax for a fifth consecutive season, those two big-name acquisitions could prove to be the Giants’ primary offseason acquisitions.
The McCutchen agreement comes just days after the Pirates shipped right-hander Gerrit Cole to the reigning World Champion Astros, further signaling a transitional period in Pittsburgh, though the pair of trades does not necessarily indicate that a full-scale tear-down is on the horizon for the Bucs. Both Cole (controlled through 2019) and McCutchen (a free agent next winter) were short-term and relatively high-priced assets — especially for a Pirates team that operates on a notoriously thin budget.
McCutchen is slated to earn $14.75MM in the final season of his contract, whereas Cole had settled at $6.75MM in order to avoid arbitration. The Pirates, then, will be saving a combined $21.5MM with this pair of swaps — money that could, in theory, be reinvested into the 2018 roster. The Pirates have, after all, opened each of the past three season with payrolls in excess of $90MM but now project for a payroll of roughly $82MM in 2018. The Bucs could further reduce that 2018 commitment if the team ultimately finds a trade partner for infielder/outfielder Josh Harrison; the versatile veteran is slated to earn $10MM this season and, like Cole and McCutchen before him, has been an oft-mentioned trade candidate this offseason.
[Related: Updated Pittsburgh Pirates depth chart & Pittsburgh Pirates payroll]
The 25-year-old Crick was the 49th overall pick in the 2011 draft and ranked among baseball’s top 100 prospects from 2013-15, per various reports. While his rise through the minors was slowed by control issues, he had a strong year in 2017 after converting to the bullpen on a full-time basis.
In 29 1/3 innings of relief in Triple-A, he posted a 2.76 ERA with 12.0 K/9, 4.0 BB/9 and a 44.3 percent ground-ball rate. That strong run led to Crick’s big league debut with the Giants; in 32 1/3 innings in the Majors, he logged a 3.06 ERA with 7.8 K/9, 4.7 BB/9 and a 37.9 percent ground-ball rate. Crick’s 95.5 mph average fastball velocity and 11 percent swinging-strike rate both pointed to the potential for his big league strikeout rate to catch up to the more impressive level he flashed in Triple-A.
Crick is controllable through the 2023 season, so he’ll join a lengthy list of controllable assets the Bucs received in the Cole trade as a potential long-term piece that can step directly onto the roster.
“Kyle Crick is a physical, Major League-ready right-handed reliever who brings a high-velocity, live fastball complimented by a quality slider to potentially pitch in a late inning role for the Pirates,” said Pirates GM Neal Huntington. “Kyle’s power arsenal has resulted in a high strikeout rate complimented by inducing a lot of weak contact. After his first exposure to the Major League level last season, Kyle appears ready to take the next steps in what should be a productive career as a high leverage Major League relief pitcher.”
Reynolds, 23 later this month, was the Giants’ second-round pick in 2016 and just wrapped up a strong season in Class-A Advanced, where he hit .312/.364/.462 with 10 homers, 26 doubles and nine triples in 540 trips to the plate. Jim Callis and Jonathan Mayo of MLB.com had him fourth among Giants prospects, while Baseball America ranked him fifth among San Francisco farmhands just a few weeks ago (before the Arroyo trade, meaning he’d now rank fourth on their list as well).
“Bryan is an effective offensive player that also plays quality defense,” said Huntington. “We look forward to working with Bryan to maximize his tools and help him become a quality well-rounded Major League player who can impact a game in many ways beyond his quality bat.”
As for the Pirates’ immediate future in the outfield, it’s not yet entirely clear how they’ll fill the void. Starling Marte seems likely to slide over from the corner outfield to center field, which should be a defensive upgrade over the life of a full season. Top prospect Austin Meadows showed in 2017 that he’s likely not yet ready for the Majors — Meadows hit just .250/.311/.359 in Triple-A — so the Bucs could turn to a platoon of 26-year-old Adam Frazier and veteran utility man Sean Rodriguez in left field for the time being.
Alternatively, Pittsburgh could wait out the free agent market and see if any veterans become available on bargain deals. The corner outfield market has no shortage of experienced options (MLBTR Free Agent Tracker link), and some of those names will undoubtedly have to settle for one-year deals later this winter.
Robert Murray and Jon Heyman of FanRag Sports first reported that talks between the two sides were picking up (Twitter link). Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic reported that the two sides had reached an agreement (Twitter link). Alex Pavlovic of NBC Sports Bay Area tweeted that Crick was in the deal. Yahoo’s Jeff Passan tweeted that Reynolds was likely to be a part of the deal, and The Athletic’s Andrew Baggarly confirmed as much. MLB.com’s Jon Morosi reported that the Pirates would pay some of McCutchen’s salary.
Photos courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.
Wow
How does this trade solve the CF problem? Cuz I can’t see Cutch in that huge CF of that stadium at all!
Keon Broxton is available. Brewers need to make room.
Empty farm basically while the brewers have top 5 farm giants for sure get outbid
Why would the Brewers bid on their own player?
It’s pretty obvious he’s meaning the giants have nothing the brewers would want
Broxton is hot garbage. There was even talk of DFAing him. The Giants could get him.
If another trade doesn’t happen it may be duggar
I don’t think Duggar is quite ready, hopefully by late summer he can come up and get some at bats before next season.
How does this trade solve the CF problem? Cuz I can’t see Cutch in that huge CF of that stadium at all!
Nevermind all that.
Your not looking at the big picture. With him and Longoria solve their home run problems they had last year.
Those 2 guys in the line up pose a big threat to any pitching staff.
This is a great acquisition and any team who could pick up Cutch after getting Longoria, would do it in a heart beat. As they did…
San Fran will be a threat this year in the N.L you wait and see.
You’re kidding, right?
They could move him to a corner outfield position. Keep in mind, the Pirates were all set to move him last year until Marte got suspended.
Maybe they land Cain too!!!
Dyson is more likely. No draft pick attached.
Now Harrison maybe goes to the Yankees
Or Rivero to the Cardinals?
Bruce Wayne, the Pirates signed Rivero to a 4 year extension today. They’re not trading him! Shut up already!
take it easy, he posted that before the extension was made public. dcahen you need to relax, cuz he’s batman
And the extension doesn’t necessarily preclude a Rivero trade. Although it does mean anyone who wants to trade for him is gonna have to pay up.
Why so serious
^^^^^
I posted before I saw the extension. By the way, who are you to tell anybody to shut up? Plus there have been trades before even after extensions have been signed. The Pirates are in the middle of a rebuild
Exactly! Either way he was gonna bring quite a bit in a trade if he was traded!
Some version of that might make sense but, the Pirates or a third team might have to take Gardner or Ellsbury.
I would love to see the Pirates some way, somehow work a deal with the Yankees for Clint Frazier. It may not be realistic at all but in my perfect world, the Pirates could get a 1 for 1 deal of Harrison for Frazier. That gives the Yankees a stopgap at either 2nd or 3rd in case the young kids aren’t ready to play yet or something happens. Frazier would almost certainly slot in right away as the LFer in Pittsburgh
In what MLB The Show franchise mode with force trades turned on fantasy world are you living in where Harrison = Frazier?
Sorry but no I don’t base my trades off of a video game.. I’m not the only person that’s ever mentioned a deal like that before. Plus you act like I legitimately thought that deal could happen. Pretty sure I clearly said “in a perfect world” and that “it may not be realistic at all” so why don’t you go jump down someone elses throat about trade proposals that you find to be bad. when they aren’t even serious about them. Plus whos to say that Frazier turns into a star like everyone would like
Not saying I would do the trade either, but Harrison is a teo time all star you can slot anywhere pretty much. If you wnat to win, you take him on your team.
It looked like it but I wasn’t saying it was very realistic, but I’m glad somebody agrees with me about Harrison. He could be a good role/ super u on a championship team like the Yankees. I’ve seen too many people say the Yankees don’t need him, while that may be true I feel like he could be a useful piece for them that they don’t realize. They think both Andujar and Torres are going to light it up which they very well could but I wouldn’t expect out of both right away.
Harrison is the perfect type of player that the Yankees need, but I don’t who they give up for him.
I agree. All these Yankee fans say they don’t need them but what happens if their young players don’t perform? I think he would be great with his position versatility and if they don’t like him after this year they can decline his options or look to trade him or something.
After they tried to rob the Yankees for cole I would only offer them a bag of baseballs,and I like josh but Pittsburgh is what’s wrong with most MLB teams,they don’t put money back into the team,you follow a team ,buy player jerseys,but when they become good they are traded off because we can’t afford them,never thinking about the fan base that player has ,it’s sad but true
I definitely agree with you about that. It’s hard to stay a fan. I just hope the Pirates don’t try to find a way to screw up the inevitable Harrison trade. I just hope they get proper value for him. Although the deal I proposed is what I would consider definitely a lot more than proper value.
I agree! If they could pool Harrison for Frazier it would be the best trade of the off season!
Harrison for Frazier wakes sense for both teams,Pittsburgh get a player with 4 years of control,Yankees get a player to help them win now.
Cutch..is a class act, he had an incredible 2nd half last season and is great in clubhouse, hope is does great in SF….Cards fan
Cutch..is a class act, he had an incredible 2nd half last season and is great in clubhouse, hope he does great in SF….Cards fan
ATTENTION: SAN FRANSISCO GIANTS FANS.
Andrew McCutchen will not solve all of your team’s problems.
Andrew McCutchen will not get you into the playoffs after a 68 win season.
Andrew McCutchen will DEFINENTLY not win you a World Series title!!!!
So please stop talking about a world series run let alone a playoff run.
Angels aren’t either
Woah…
Pow
Pow Pow!
Wow!
Wow Woah… Pow Wow!
Wow pow wow wow – woahhhhh
Oh that sucks for Pittsburgh
Yea, tell me about it.
It’s Project Wolverine II , the Next Generation, the search for Spock and let’s screw over the Pittsburgh fans and call it rebuilding.
Oh, the owners looove this deal. The Pirates only target Pirate-quality prospects and cash. Why trade for someone that will likely price themselves out of the market?
For who?
Who is coming back to Pirates
Good for him
Wow
His defense is declining. Offense is very streaky and doesn’t fix their OF D. Plus 14 million. The hole just keeps getting deeper
Denard Span pt 2
Nope. Span was a 3 year commitment to play CF. Cutch isn’t playing CF in SF.
Riiiiiiiigggghhhht. You should start following baseball. You might enjoy it.
Time for them to get a used condom and a bag of chips based on what they got for Cole
They got a great package for Cole
Yeah if you’re Houston, Pitt got a handful of “maybes” for Cole.
Cole has 2 years on his contract and he’s not the ace he was 2 years ago. Musgrove is a former top prospect who was really good in his rookie year and was great the second half of this year. Moran was a top prospect who’s been held back because of Bregman, he’s been insane in AAA and who knows if Kang will even play and if so he can go back to SS, Feliz is ok but has something the rough pirates bullpen doesn’t really have and that’s a strikeout pitcher. I think that the Astros even overpaid for Cole because they are flooded with talent. Pirates fans are lucky.
Felipe Rivero is not a strikeout pitcher or were you referring to middle relief?
I’m an Astros fan and I would do the deal for Cole all day… I’m glad you didn’t get Martes, Fisher, Whitley, Tucker, Alvarez, Bukakas, etc. the players that were traded for Cole are older and have less upside.
Hahahaha. Yeah right. Musgrove is average at best. Moran wasnt held back by Bregman. He has had 2+ years to take the 3rd base job in houston and couldnt. Feliz has limited potential and who knows on the AA prospect
Cole himself is a maybe. He hasn’t hit on all cylinders since 2015, and we can’t blame that on injury. Who knows? Maybe HOU can turn him around the way they did with Charlie Morton last year. With all that offensive support in HOU he really has no excuse for not succeeding.
I was talking middle relief.
What ever you say cwhy.
Look at some stats slugger
So Bregman, a 4.1 rWAR/3.9 fWAR player last season is a better player than Moran. OK, what’s your point?
Please tell us how many 3B in MLB outperformed Bregman last season.
Moran was rightfully blocked by Bregman, who is a better player. AAMOF, Bregman was a better 3B in 2017 than 70% of the guys playing the position.
fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=3b&stats=bat&#…
Cole is not worth what casual fans think. He stunk for two years now
I’m not saying Moran is better than Bregman. I’m saying he hasn’t really gotten a shot because of Bregman. And Moran hit .300 with 20 homers in AAA this year, and other than a subpar 2016 he’s been great in the minors.
The pcl is known for being very hitter friendly .300 with 20 translate to 250 with 12 in the eastern league AAA and in the bigs even worse
I’ll bet the Astros do fix Cole the way they did with Morton. The best part for Cole is getting away from the Pirates ridiculous “pitch to contact “ philosophy.
Common sense isn’t, so expect a lot of downvotes for those posts. 3 MLB players and a lottery ticket prospect for Cole is a good return.
You don’t watch any AAA baseball do you bronx?
Jeff Luhnow, is that you?
Lol no they didn’t
Pirates got robbed for Cole, should have taken Chance Adams from NY
It’s way too early to say pirates got robbed. Astros only get two years of Cole and he is going from a very pitcher friendly ball park in the NL to the AL in a hitter friendly environment
Reports never said Adams was offered.
As a Yankee fan I am glad the pirates turned us down on the cole trade,what they wanted from the Yankees was crazy,the pirates took what they could get after the Yankees pulled out.
I’d say the bag of chips is wishful thinking.
You’re probably right. Best bet is a bag of Lays so it’ll be half air anyway
Are you kidding me? It’s Huntington. He probably only asked for the generic dollar store kind.
You think they at least got salt and vinegar?
He could’ve got All Dressed or Ketchup chips from the Jays
yo..ketchup chips are magic
I would prefer dill pickle chips but all dressed will do
Ownership is much more at fault than Huntington. Huntington is forced to play with half the deck.
@dirtydan
Well I guess you and other casual fans place great value on a pitcher with a 4.26 era coming off a season of 3.88 with 1.44 whip. You only do this since once upon a time Cole was an ace and you heard his “name” and you cant fathom that he is not good for past two years. You just “hear” the name and like a hypnotized patient you just think ace though the facts are right in your face. Try thinking!
Nicely put.
They gotta get Ramos right?
They BETTER not have traded Ramos
Well after what they got for Cole I’m sure they didn’t even ask for him.
Not a chance. They signaled a rebuild with the Cole trade. They’d be lucky to get a top 10 prospect, considering they’re also saving $15m.
Your point confuses me.
A) McCutchen was a almost 4 WAR player last year so his $14 mil salary is not an overpay at all. It’s marketing value.
B) You say the Pirates have signaled a rebuild and thus shouldn’t hope for more than Organization’s top 10? Why? Why shouldn’t they be able to ask for a league top 100 prospects or two?
People are confusing the valuation of a good player on a good contract (McCutchen 1 year) being traded with a distressed player on a larger contract being traded (Ellsbury). There’s no reason why every single team in need of a OF or bat would Not to be in on McCutchen.
The pirates got a lack luster return on Cole so we have to wait and see what Cutch will pull.
B) If you think a Pirates team that just had an average return for Cole gets two top 100 prospects from a barren Giant’s farm for Cutch while still saving all of his salary, you’re drunker than I am high.
What they got for Cole has nothing to do with what they get for McCutchen and I’m not even going to argue that point.
We can all agree that the Cole package was underwhelming but it doesn’t mean they should seek more or less for Cutch.
My reply to the other person was that for Cutch, they should be happy with an organizations top 10 prospect. I suggested he was crazy and that a Cutch trade wouldn’t be a salary dump and they should be able to get a top 100 prospect (or two). Maybe that “two” is what caught your ire but you never know.
Hello Austin Meadows? Meadews, Marte and The Coffee…not bad…
Did the Pirates get a bunch of just-okay minor leaguers for him?
That’s all that the Giants have really. So, yes !
Just-okay minor leaguers is kind of the price for anybody this offseason.
LETS GO
It’s gonna be weird seeing McCutchen (the longtime face of the Pirates) and Longoria (the longtime face of the Rays) playing on the same team next year.
Along with Posey, the longtime face of the Giants.
That’s true too, but I meant that those guys will be playing for teams other than the ones they’re known for
Woosh
All sucking together. That’ll be fun to watch.
That’s a lot of long faces…
A horse walks into a bar…
Home grown stars from small market teams, off to the big city. Kinda depressing.
I agree. And I’m an Indians fan, so I’m always scared of that happening with someone like Lindor.
Nice move by the Giants. They should be considerably better than last year no doubt, if that’s even saying much.
I agree. If Belt and Crawford can bounce back some they have a pretty good lineup. Still need a good defensive CF but he doesnt really need to hit above 7th or 8th in the lineup.
My guess is Ramos, Gregorio and Slater
For one year of McCutchen? That’s way high, I’d be shocked
I’m expecting something like Stratton and Fabian TBH
Absolutely no chance of that
more like Gregorio and Parker
My guess beede and low level lottery tickets. Ramos really only good prospect Giants have.
Shocked if it’s that good honestly.
I’ll admit, I was way off here. it was a dumb comment that wasn’t thought about before I posted it
I try not to do tht, but sorry.
Massive upgrade from the current crud they have in the SF OF. If they grab JD or Cain next then they might be dangerous in 2018.
I just wrote the same thing on the other thread.
They need to sign Cain as well.
Edit: I disagree on JD.. He’d be a big a liability defensively in the SF outfield.
Bat outweighs the bad D. especially SF, who need the 40+ homer bat more than an above avg OF. They could move him to 1B eventually too.
40+ homers??? They traded for Cutch not Stanton.
It is in reference to JD Martinez.
Ok, that makes more sense.
Yeah but Cain’s also cheaper so that’d be better for San Francisco. But you’re right, bat outweighs defense every time.
If they really wanted to be bold they’d sign Cain and JD and trade Pence or Belt. McCutchen-Cain-JDM would such a massive upgrade to the OF.
It’d better be a massive upgrade considering the dead money they’d have to eat, draft picks given up (players tied tied QO) and money surrendered. They’d also have an OF over 30. Not sure if all that’s worth it to win-now when you’re competing against LAD who are built for the present and the future.
That was fast….
Giants still wont contend, kind of a head scratcher pushing the rebuild further back…
Happy 30th!
Not every team tears down and rebuilds, and why are so many people expecting that 2017 represents a new normal for the Giants? They had a ridiculous year in terms of injury and weak production, neither of which would be expected to repeat. Even with no roster moves, the 2018 Giants would have been a .500 team.
Even if that’s true, they still play in one the toughest divisions in baseball right now. The Dodgers are stacked, the snakes and the rox both look like wild card contenders. The giants have a decent core, yes, but lots of injury questions, no depth to speak of, bad D, and massive holes on the roster make a lot of people sour on the giants
D’backs and Rockies are hardly locks for the WC teams. D’backs over-achieved after losing 93 games the previous year, with much of the same roster. Rockies were lucky to make the WC last season stumbling down the stretch. They were 27 and 29 in August, September, and October.
Why do people believe that what teams do one season is who they are going forward? History routinely shows that teams will make the PS one year and fall short the next. Looking back to as recently as 2014 shows that only 2 of the 10 teams in the playoffs, the Nats and Dodgers, were also in the 2017 PS.
shafe4141’s choice to say “immigrants” instead of saying “kids” or “amateurs” WAS political to begin with and obviously intentionally so. To claim, or imply, or pretend otherwise is either naive or dishonest – or both.
The Giants had 64 wins last year. Injuries did not account for 17 less wins last year. They still are in desperate need of relief help. Would be shocked if they finished above 3rd place in the division.
I think it’s correct that the injuries did not account for all the losses. Several key players had sub-par seasons as well. The D’backs lost 93 games in 2016 and with with much of the same roster that won 93 in 2017. Basically they were much healthier in 2017 and many key players had above average seasons.
The Twins lost 103 games in 2016 and won 83 in 2017 without wholesale changes. The Red Sox were a last place team in 2015 and a first place team in 2016. Someone believing that a team that under-performed along with a lot injuries one season has no chance the next would indicate that person hadn’t watch much baseball, or the very least had a short memory.
3rd place in their division could very well put them in the playoffs – as it did for Rox last year.
They already added Longoria earlier this off season. Don’t think they ever considered a rebuild but a reload.
Reloading with aging stars on the down slopes of their careers. If it doesn’t work, they will be in the cellar for a while.
Neither contract is an albatross, if it doesn’t pan out, I don’t see either one posing long term risks.
If a team decides to tank it, they are in the cellar for a while regardless. The only exception being the White Sox, they received a kings ransom last year for each Sale and Eaton.
Yes they will.
Wow
McCutchen should do better defensively in CF (if that is the plan) than Span did… but not by very much. He is a corner guy at this stage.
Better have not been for any of their top 10 prospects especially considering what little Houston gave up for Cole.
Depends how much money is going with him. If its a lot, then they’ll get a top 5 prospect for sure.
Wow!
Seems like a complete salary dump. The end of an era. At least they picked a side and acknowledged a full rebuild.
It’s not a full rebuild yet. They have only traded two guys, each of whom had a top prospect replacement ready.
It’s a mini rebuild and have acknowledged their window with Cole and McCutchen has closed.
The giants have no farm left. Desperate organization. They should have thought long term. They don’t have enough to contend
I doubt a extension is made either
They haven’t had even a decent farm since Posey and Bumgarner graduated in 2009. They have won 3 World Series titles in the 8 years since. I don’t think a strong farm has anything to do with contention. Quite the opposite in my opinion.
Long term means trading for players instead of signing free agents so they can hold onto those picks. They also didn’t get rid of any of their top three prospects. I’d say they are certainly thinking long term and short term.
I don’t think I’d say they are desperate but realize they really don’t have a choice. Buster is 30 and his window is two or three years left as an All-Star. They have a top closer they signed and can’t trade. They have Cueto and Shark, who are solid #2 and #3 pitchers. Bum is still an ace and has a couple years until he’s a free agent.. They have nothing in the farm and will have to fill it out via drafts in the next couple years – they’ve already redone their management there to focus on grooming players. They have the best defensive infield in the majors. I think they shrugged and figured they should give it one more whirl with this cast before letting it all go.
Buster is solid, no doubt. Bum may or may not be the pitcher he was before his motorbike accident. Cueto is on the downside. Samradjzia never has been all that. Giants have the best defensive infield in the majors? Not.
Have fun with that dream team there, Giants. Dream teams never win. Plus McCutchen and Longoria are not going to help your bullpen issues.
How on earth is the current giants team coming off of a 64 win season a “dream team”?
If your saying picking up a bunch of former franchise icons for other teams later in their career never works well the 90s and 00s Yankees disagree with that. See Raines Strawberry Mussina etc etc etc and etc etc cause they did that for years successfully.
You have Madbum and Johnny Cueto top of the rotation, everyone wishes they can have those two at top of their rotation. You have Melancon in the bullpen. Now with two more big names in Longoria and McCutchen, how can you not call this team a dream team? I doubt the Giants can win three world series in a row with this team. Most of the players they already have are declining.
Dream team to me means the best team in baseball they aren’t even the best dream team in their division. Your definition of dream team is drastically different from mine.
Agree, Giants pushing a rebuild back but McCutchen is still a winning player in the right environment. Same with Longoria. Gives them both a chance to lead that team and they could very well be a wild card contender. Next up to San Francisco – Jacoby Ellsbury, James Sheilds, and Adam Jones lol
I wish I could turn in papers to my teacher that just say “more to come” after a couple of paragraphs.
You can. Try it on an important paper. Your teacher will appreciate the irony.
I had en English paper due last week that I wish I could’ve wrote that on
Wish I could do that with the English paper I had due last week
Would you prefer they not post anything until both teams announce the trade on Twitter?
I’m not complaining about what Steve Adams did. I’m literally just fantasizing about easier homework assignments.
Oh ok lol
Man, as a Dodgers fan I hope his decline continues lol. In all honestly, I love this guy, he’s been a heck of a ball player, think he’s not the defender he once was and he’s not the hitter he once was either but he still has something to bring to the table but it’s pretty clear he is entering that part if his career where the decline is showing and he doesn’t have a whole lot of years left but overall this is a good trade for the Giants. I can’t help but wonder if Pence ends up traded or if he is more of a platoon option at this stage of his career with how often he is hurt and his production dipping. The West should be a lot more interesting this year with the Rockies and Giants making significant upgrades.
How did the Rockies make significant upgrades? Wade Davis taking Greg Holland’s place seems like a push. Bryan Shaw taking Pat Neshek’s place seems like a push. Jake McGee taking Jake McGee’s place really seems like a push. They have done nothing with their offense or rotation yet. At best, you could claim they have not lost ground, but I wouldn’t say they have improved anything yet.
I think the Rockies made a strong effort to upgrade their bullpen. I guess they didn’t make significant upgrades but I wouldn’t say they got worse, they are a pretty good team if you ask me and they should be healthier this season making them better.
Why does nobody ever account for improvement from young players on teams? This team failed to improve? Ok so all the young players are going to get worst? Doubtful. If a team is primarily made up of older 30+ players than I’d agree with people saying the team failed to improve the Rockies entire rotation is young and should improve in theory if they avoid injury.
I agree they are a good team, possibly even a playoff team again if everything goes good health-wise and a couple of young players can step up. I just didn’t see any improvements. They replaced Jonathan Lucroy with Chris Iannetta. That is a major downgrade in my opinion. Even though he had a disappointing year, they still haven’t replaced Carlos Gonzalez yet.either. The potential is there for the Rox to be contenders, but they aren’t there yet this offseason.
Have you ever heard of the sophomore slump? With as many rookies as were in the Rox rotation, it would be silly to not expect some regression from at least 1-2 of them.
Rockies’ bullpen didn’t worse, bur it didn’t get much better either. It did get more expensive though.
A young talented group of starting pitchers being a year older is certainly an upgrade
Giants front office has already conceded that Pence physically can no longer be considered a full time player. Cutch in left, Cain in center, Pence/Slater platoon in right ?
I think that’s what it will end up being unless they plan on making more moves like signing JD Martinez.
They still could go to someone like Jon Jay, or Jarrod Dyson; maybe even Cameron Maybin. They aren’t going to sign Cain. I could see Austin Slater getting time and maybe even Steven Duggar depending on his spring. I do think they need another outfielder though.
Well there goes the Yankees chances of dumping Ellsbury
I wasn’t thinking of dumping Ellsbury which I think will be near impossible. I thought the Giants and Yanks matched up well for Hicks or Gardner… Too bad.
There was zero chance of Ellsbury going to SF even if they hadn’t acquired Cutch.
Well, the Pirates just lost one fan. My daughter has just declared that she is officially hating the Pirates forever. If they trade Cervelli I’m going to have to put her on suicide watch.
You should probably start telling her that all players get traded eventually and this is actually normal and fun, and there’s a site called mlbtraderumors and its awesome 🙂
Good parenting advice, Justin!!
when is Kershaw getting traded???
He’s a free agent after next season. He’d look good in a Giants uniform.
They will get more for him at the trade deadline. (Lol)
When they said MLB talent going back I thought Posey might be in the deal!! It will be hard to see Crick in a Pirates uniform though 😉
And boom goes the dynamite!
but why?
Tough day to be a Pirates fan. Losing Cole was nothing compared to losing this guy. Hopefully he can do well in SF. As far as potential destinations for him, I’d say San Fran is a pretty good one.
Hopefully we can get something really good back in return though I’m not optimistic.
As a fan of the game I would have rather seen him stay with Pirates for his entire career.
Pirates will probably get Panda in return
Cutch will name his next kid Silicon.
Everyone keeps talking about how Harrison is next, but Starling Marte is 29 too, he’s gotta be on the table, lots of teams could take his $18M guaranteed plus those reasonable options.
He’s signed to a market friendly deal dumb dumb
So funny that the Giants are still going to finish behind the Padres. There pitching staffs numbers were terrible last year and they are still adding players that are past their prime seasons.
Right? Everyone seems to overlook that better hitting won’t make up for terrible pitching. And they’re spending so much money for all of it.
I’m pretty sure Mad Bum, Cueto, and Samardzija, will all have better seasons compared to the Pad’s top 3. Clayton Richard pitched 197 innings. Perdomo had 163. Lamet has 114. None of them had an Era better than 4.50.
You can’t just say they are better until we see it happen….lol
My guess si Slater, Sp Crick and another prospect not in the top 30. I don’t think one year of Cutch worths that much tbh.
The Pirates just hit the bottom of the bottomless pit. Hopefully they get something good for him.
The Jays could have had Cutch, they had an offer in but it wasn’t as good as the Giants and Jays mgmt didn’t want to upgrade their offer. No word [yet] on whom the Jays were offering.
More proof this Jays Mgmt team doesn’t really want to compete in 2018 despite what they are saying.
The rich get richer and the poor get Solarte and Diaz.
Good on the Giants. Well done.
Rich get richer ? Giants lost 98 games last season, so …
Jays fans experiencing what Tribe fans went through for many years with Shapiro – always coming up short on significant acquisitions and being told, “We tried.”
I’m not sure this is the best way for SF to get relevant. Both Cutch and Longoria’s best years are likely well behind them. They are getting names but Inwouldnt hold my breath on production. This may be a destination for some of the better free agents at the break or in the next offseason but I don’t guess the Dodgers are exactly worried.
Knowing the Pirates GM, he probably traded him for a single A player with zero upside
The Giants now have the faces of two different franchises. Its kind of sad really, to think about. Two cities lost their some of their best players, hopefully they’ll enjoy his time with the Giants.
We won’t even get a top 100 prospect out of him either. Sad.
golly
He better not be the answer to improving center field defense.
LF.
I’ve never seen a team that had the worst record in the sport ever be this in denial.
The harsh reality of baseball displayed this off season as two players who were the faces of their respective franchises have been traded over the last month or so. Cutch was a great ambassador for the pirates and I know their fans are down right now. This is the result of an owner not investing into his team
On a side note any slim chance of albatrossbury being traded this off season went down the drain with this deal 🙁
No, the odds remain the same. It was zero both before and after this trade.
Exactly. No one is going to do the Yankees a favor and take on Ellsbury’s contract – at least not without getting something really good for doing so.
Hypothetically: The Phillies certainly have the financial wherewithal to take on the contract. But the guy is still owed over $84MM the next four years.
Even if the Phillies needed an OF they can probably buy a guy in FA who’s not going into his age 34 season and has a shot at producing the 2.1 rWAR/ 1.5 fWAR (or less if he continues to decline) that Ellsbury has averaged the last three years for a lot less AAV. Jackson, Maybin, CarGo are all still available and could possibly provide the same production for a lot less AAV and total money. What Granderson has produced the last 2 -3 years is probably what to expect from Ellsbury. It’s not worth anywhere near the contract. Maybe…. maybe half of that, so to take on the contract could be as much as a $40MM “overpay” by any team doing the Yankees a favor.
So if we accept the proposition that there is a cost to prospects, why would the Phillies (or any other team) bail out the Yankees unless they got what they considered to be $40MM of prospects along with Ellsbury?
If I’m Klentak I’d tell Cashman “Sure, but send me 2 – 3 of your top prospects with him and I’ll take the whole contract”.
No way the Yankees do that, and probably no way any team takes the whole contract unless that happens.
Don’t be surprised if Harrison is traded within a week or two.
They have to trade rivero at the deadline. Especially if hand isn’t Available. Can you imagine the boost to the pirates rebuild it can get if he is traded ?
Rivero is going no where.this year He is under control for 3 more years.
The pirates aren’t a contender now. Keeping a potential gold mine of a trade chip in rivero is pointless imo
When you are not a contender, trading away good young players is a great way to stay not a contender. Its called building. Kinda what NY did by not trading Judge and Sanchez.
five more years now.
I wonder if Pittsburgh eats some cash in exchange for a better prospect. Cutch isn’t making much, but this would be an issue with the Giants CBT issue.
Their payroll is around 190 million isn’t it ?
Needed to happen.
If these acquisitions don’t work this year the window is going to close on the Giants and they are going to be down for a while. Even with their seemingly infinite payroll I don’t think they will be able to buy their way back to relevance any time soon.
I have to assume they view themselves as having a one or two year window before having to undergo a massive rebuild where everybody gets traded, free agents get signed with the express plan to trade them midseason and they lose 100 games a year for 3 or 4 years.
As a Pirate fan, this sucks.
In a way id does but he was gone after this season anyway. To have kept him would have delayed the inevitable anyway. Get it over with now along with Cole going. They would not have contended for anything anyway this year.
But you know what’s even worse? Getting almost nothing notable back for your best player. That hurts more than him being traded, at least to me.
Don’t sleep on Crick. He was disappointing when they were grooming him as a starter. But once he started coming out of the pen, he began coming into his own. I think his upside is an Andrew Miller comp. I think it’s a big loss for the Giant’s bullpen.
Call me sentimental but how great would it be to bring back Freese to the Cards. Doesn’t seem the Bucks are getting much for their players. Might be able to pull it off for just a sack lunch and a sub par prospect.
If I remember there was an Espn article about him that said he kinda wanted to be traded from Saint Louis cause his celebrity status was overwhelming for him here.
This is the MLB. Nobody cares what the players want lol. I remember reading something like that similar. I was just living in the past for a moment.
Not true at all. Just earlier this offseason the Cardinals traded Piscotty closer home so he could be with his family
I know. Sarcasm doesn’t translate well through text.
I wouldn’t take him too serisouly. His username has Troll in it.
“Ihatethecubs” was taken.
Just not Gorkys. Please. Anyone but Gorkys.
So buster posey?
Suddenly SF got really old.
Why does everyone say they are old, I get that they are getting close but prime years are 29-30. Their core is still 30 and below. Posey & Crawford 30, MadBum 28, Panik 27, and others non core guys.. Belt & Strickland 29, Will Smith 28, McCutchen & Cueto 31. in 2-3 years they would be really old.
That’s why everyone says they are old. Bc you’re right, in 2 or 3 years they would be really old. Cutch is probably just one year commitment people!
Probably a one years commitment? He’s a FA in 2019. There’s no probably about it.
Pirates goal is to battle the Marlins for worst record in 2018.
The Giants should go full 2012 and take Ellsbury off our hands.
That was never going to happen.
You guys wanted him so badly. How’s that working for you now?
Perhaps makes SF a 3rd place Team…
Good acquisition’s this winter for the Giants.
They keep getting older when they need to get younger. Hope they didn’t have to give up Shaw or Ramos.
Baseball is the biggest love-hate relationship you can have.
In Pittsburgh, yes
Everybody who loves baseball has this kind of relationship with baseball, In Pittsburgh, it’s way harder, but it’s not just Pittsburgh. Everyone’s favorite team has done something that makes them proud to be a fan of their club, but they’ve also done stuff that makes fans really upset.
Exactly. Just like Bill Dewitt coming out today and saying the Cards have made all the big moves they are going to make this off-season. Frustrating!
Lol
Giants acquired a fairly big name player, have arguably a bottom 5 farm system, AND didn’t have to give up either of their top 3 prospects for him. Is Pittsburgh taking lessons from Cincinnati on how to do a rebuild (or even a reload) as poorly as possible?
You left out the Marlins. Maybe revenue sharing receiving teams have to give revenue sharing payers good players for nothing in return
MLB doesn’t use a shared revenue system.
A controlled demolition is not a rebuild. Rebuild is when you get prospects who have a chance to be a part of a future core. Call it what it is, dumping salary or demolition, despite a check for 50 million from the BamTek deal
The Marlins And Pirates dumping good players for nothing much makes me wonder if something Fishy is going on. It has saved big market teams millions on the FA market. I wonder if both will be getting a sizeable bump in revenue sharing dollars
Tony C should call for a ban on trades in December and January and a Salary Floor
oOf
Well, a week ago the same experts said that the deal was done for Cole to Houston and they were hinting at at least one of the big name prospects from Houston. Now the deal for Cutch is supposed to be done and no top prospect. Could it be that the deal is done but with a top prospect this time? Just sticking with the opposite of what was told by the experts a week ago. 🙂
Even the team’s so called beat writers are just waiting for Rosenthal to find out what the return is going to be and Tweet it out so they can “report” it
A big leaguer going back? This just got interesting.
Even though they literally said it wouldnt be an interesting big leaguer?
They just said it wasn’t a huge name, not that it wasn’t interesting.
I freaking hate being a Pirates fan. Last time our best player went to the Giants it was another 20 years before we sniffed being competitive. Too bad we couldn’t trade Huntington Nutting and the whole FO as well. This is a sorry excuse for a baseball operation. Ran like a business yet in the ground. I will not go to another game til this management and owner are gone. Maybe it will be awhile that’s fine. Because in the meantime it won’t be anything worth going to see in the first place.
lol please dont comp cutch, who was traded, to bonds, who left via FA.
With all their kids, the Pirates will be back competing in 2019, I wouldnt worry.
This has a bad feel to it similar to the Aramis Ramirez salary dump back in 2003. A former mvp and still above average outfielder for basically nothing?
You know what the worst part of this is? We didn’t even get back a top 100 prospect. We didn’t even get back one of their top 5 prospects. This was basically a salary dump.
Remember, the Pirates have been shopping him for over a year now. No takers till now. Could be that the rest of the teams see what we have seen. A very good guy that hit very well and consistently in the past and had a ton of speed, and could run down anything but never had a great arm has turned into a very good guy that hits well in streaks but prone to slumps, has lost a step or two and his average at best arm is not very good anymore. Loved watching him play. Will miss him like I missed Cole but again, both were gone anyway. Cutch will get a 4-5 year deal after this season but will be way more than I would have wanted the Pirates to sink into him that long. I am assuming that they know from his agent that he would not sign for a discount nor for a short term contract. I would not expect him to. Not a good risk for any team that can’t spent to the tax level. Too much risk of dead contract time that kills many teams.
Did you seriously think that the Pirates could have gotten back a top 100 prospect for a 2.5 WAR player past the age of 30 with only 1 year left on his contract that also costs 14.5M? You guys need to stop kidding yourselves. Unless you have a GM like Cashman, who can whip up the most surprising returns for players, dont be disappointed when you get a fair deal.
I’m not sure whether I’d qualify as a Pirates fan or instead be better labeled as an observer (to me, a fan is emotionally invested and affected by the team’s success or failure…I’m a Penguins fan only by that standard). With that qualifier…
I know exactly what being a Pirates fan means.
They aren’t going to spend. I understand the economic reasons for it. You can argue they should lose money to win, but it’s not going to happen unless Mike Illitch rises from the dead and buys the Pirates. Even Cuban said no…because he understands the market.
So, with that in mind, the Pirates are like watching a real life version of Major League. Can Huntingdon somehow put together a band of scrubs that come together and win it all despite working for Rachel Phelps?
And I like prospects, so I don’t mind the frequent retooling.
But, as I said above, I don’t “live or die” with the Pirates, so I can’t speak to how Pirates fandom is for those who do.
But at the end of the day, I can’t blame Huntingdon when his hands get tied by Nutting, I can’t blame Nutting for not wanting to lose money only to still get outspent by the Yanks/Sox/Cubs/Dodgers/Astros super league teams.
The problem is that small market teams are mostly window dressing in MLB.
But, I can’t even blame MLB for that, because they are more successful by letting the rich teams have advantages. As much as I might like it and as much as it might be “fair” to give small market teams a level playing field like in the NHL or NFL via a salary cap, it’s not as good for business. So they won’t.
Just how it is.
The only thing I hate is when fans and the talking heads in Pittsburgh try to compare the Pirates to the Steelers and the Pens on how they build their teams. Both of those teams live in salary cap leagues. Neither can get massively out bid for players because all have the same constraints. When the Pens were playing before the cap, they had a few good years because of Lemieux, Jagr, and some trades and signings that mortgaged the very future of the team as the team filed bankruptcy because of the over spending on salary for the level of income they could get in the market. They only rebounded when the cqp was instituted. That and being able to draft Crosby and Malkin because the stunk so bad.
A slow developing off-season, where Giacona Stanton, Evan Longoria, Andrew McCutchen, Marcell Ozuna, Gerrit Cole, …might as well say the 2017 Marlins were all traded…… A Japanese star who pitches and hits coming to the majors… Derek Jeter now an owner… Phillies signing Carlos Santana and we still have not seen big names like Darvish, Arrietta, Hosmer etc come off the board yet. Yet, we still may see Chris Archer, Danny Duffy, and possibly Machardo and others traded. And yet, it’s still been slow and developing with around a month til Spring Training to go. Expect alot of prices to drop as these trades begin to fill needs and owners not wanting to pay the high contract salary demands of Boris and other agents. I would expect alot of signings to break out here soon.
I see the possibility of more players being traded and players asking prices go down. Hope the 2018 offseason isn’t like this.
I dont understand why people are upset at this offseason. The GMs arent supposed to entertain you making big splashes and flashy trades they dont need to make. Its not even that bad of an offseason, lots of moves were made.
SF home ballpark isn’t exactly hitter friendly. More of a pitchers park. I guess we’ll see how cutch does…
RHHs do much better at AT&T than lefties. BTW he hit .275 with an .818 OPS in 120 PAs at AT&T.
Looks like the Giants are trying to win the 2012 world series with all the moves they’ve made
Is it possible to win two world series in the same year?
Lmao they already won it
4.0 BB/9 usually doesn’t translate well from AAA to the Show
none of the giants top 3 prospects in the trade and no panik, and a B/C pitching prospect is in, and talk of an MLB player?
as bad of an idea as it is.. i really hope its Cueto.. man it would be nice to screw with him every 5th day like we did a couple years ago 😉 (not being serious on getting him part anyway)
Watch its probably something like Moore to take Coles spot.
Moore is on the Rangers. And Musgrove is taking Cole’s spot
oh didnt realize moore was gone. i doubt Musgrove will be a starter but im sure theyll try it
Ramos was the only piece worth getting that the Giants had. This is a joke. Being a Pirates fan is hell.
A sad day similar to when Roberto died. So good and outstanding. Had to be done but sad nevertheless.
Not trying to be like the people who overreact to comments about how people compare sports to war, other tragedies, etc.; but, are you really comparing the TRADING of a player to the DEATH of a man? That is crazy!
Being sad, angry, confused, etc. is perfectly understandable but I think that comparing the trading of McCutchen to the tragic plane crash that killed Roberto Clemente is really over doing it and in extremely poor taste. I know I am much happier knowing that the man will still be capable of playing professional baseball and living a productive life where he contributes to his family, new team and community.
Glad to see the rest of the NL Central realizing that the Cubs are gonna be reigning the division for a long time and it’s better to just sell now than disappoint later
Are the Pirates really “the rest of the NL Central”?
and this is why no one likes Cubs fans
Don’t bet the farm on it! The Cubs pitching staff is a dumpster fire !
Anyone think cutch will bounce back or is he in decline ?
He is 31, so he has to be on some sort of decline. However, I dont think hes going to really slow down for until the next couple years or so. This was the best deal the Pirates probably could have gotten for a guy who had a 2.5 WAR and only 1 year left on his contract.
Why does he have to be in decline at the age of 31? There are plenty of players that have had great careers playing well into their 30’s.
You arent as agile and athletic as you are when youre in your 20’s. Its pretty simple. Thats not to say that he is going to be awful or have a bad career after 30. However, he has already started showing signs of a decline for the past two seasons, and his age is probably the biggest factor as to why that is.
2016 was bad. But, 2017 numbers were pretty good. Career high in HR. His slash line was along with his career averages. Sure, he has slowed down a bit. But, it is not a huge drop off.
Thats the point I was making the entire time. Im not even sure you bothered to understand what I wrote at this point. I never once stated that his decline was disastrous but only that it was there. He went from being a 6+ WAR player to a 2.5 WAR player and I attributed some of why that was to his ever-increasing age. By no means is he a terrible player.
generalize much? all fanbases have such fans.
What are chances that Giants still trade for Hamilton? Cain isn’t going to keep them under the cap AND they lose a draft pick. With Cutch at a corner & Hamilton in CF they’d have a DRASTICALLY improved OF defense.
my best bet is San Francisco trades for Broxton of the Milwaukee Brewers
So you think they’d prefer a power to defense in that cavernous outfield? In fact, I’d bet Hamilton’s SLG% goes up (with more triples) and Broxton’s goes down (less HR’s) in that park and with his far superior defense Hamilton is a better fit there.
Playing 81 games in a hitters paradise Hamilton only had 20 doubles last season and has never been a doubles hitter because when he elevates the ball he hits the ball with almost no authority.
I think Grichuk from the Cards would fit in well for the Giants. He can play all 3 OF spots
I like the Broxton call!
people need to get over about organization rebuilding their roster. It happens all the time and to most mid to low market teams. Do not expect any baseball team to keep their players for more than 6 season nowadays. Especially if they are perform amazing in their first 4 years. Veteran players like McCutchen, you will not get much return because of how much he’s worth and he’s on the decline. I would rather be on the side of Pittsburgh tham Giants. They might not have the top prospect and they might be unproven. Most of the time top prospect do not turn into top performs anyways. At least they have young, cheap players. If they have a losing season, they get a draft pick. With their low payroll, they can invest next year in a player of FA. Their are a lot more options next year than this year.
See, they dont want to hear that. What they want to hear is how bad their FO is for not getting the #1 prospect for a declining veteran with a whopping 1 year left on his contract. Its why the people criticized the Marlins for not getting the best prospects back for dumping a gigantic salary. They dont actually know the value of the players being traded and they only see the immediate impact.
You’d rather have to trade your best players and rebuild without having won a World Series or pennant? You’d rather go through another rebuild after, what, twenty years of below .500 baseball? You’d rather have an owner that won’t spend money to improve his team? I just don’t get your argument.
They wouldnt get any where close to winning a WS or Pennant with the players they traded away anyway, so you trade them away to make your team better in the future. They werent going anywhere with that current roster and it had too much holes that FA could fix so you tear it all down and rebuild. Look at the Astros, Cubs, and Royals and tell me you dont think a rebuild is in order if your team is at best a mediocre club.
Royals are already back in rebuild mode. What a great strategy to copy!
It won them a WS. They went from a perpetual cycle of being terrible or mediocre to WS champs and had multiple WS and playoff appearances. I dont see what point you are making by pointing out that the Royals are going back to what got them a WS winning team. You sure got them! The Astros, Cubs, and Royals are all teams that underwent rebuilds when their teams were, at best, slightly above .500 and they all have the last 3 WS titles. Dont be a fool.
The other part of the trade is either Derrick Law or Hunter Strickland
The comparison is that Bonds and Cutch our two faces of the franchise at the times both went to the Giants irregardless how they got there. It’s a pipe dream considering how this FO manages this club to believe we will be back in contention for the foreseeable future. We have a cheap dollar store owner. Our scouting is sub par. We couldn’t decide whether to rebuild reload or contend til just this past week or so. We take reclamation projects off the scrap heap then help them leave and get a bunch of money we’re not willing to invest in after we do the work. This organization is awful. They act like 14.5 mil is so much money. What an absolute joke. They should be ashamed to present the fans with this product.
“irregardless” is not a word, pal. it’s just “regardless”.
If you can type it, it can be a word. Languages are constantly evolving. New words happen all the time. Enough people are using irregardless that it could join words like nauseous and overwhelmed as words that were once incorrect but became accepted.
Language evolves, sure, but it has to go forward, not backward. Think about what “irregardless” even means. The prefix “ir-” means the opposite of what you are about to say. For example, relevant and irrelevant, regular and irregular. See the difference? Now you tell me what on earth “ir-regardless” is supposed to mean. Not-regardless? Are you about to tell me that the original intent behind him saying “irregardless” was to say that “both went to the Giants not-regardless how they got there” even though he meant to say that it doesnt matter in what regard they ended up on the Giants, in which the word for that is “regardless”.
Don’t be daft, now. You know its an incorrect usage of the word “regardless” and it will never become a real word just because a lot of people are stupid and say “irregardless” when saying “irregardless” would negate the point they are trying to make.
No. That’s not correct.
But not the opposite meaning of the words ! That is just stupid trying to cover stupid mistakes!
oh no no no…you can talk about sports, but you don’t set grammar rules
Talking about grammar here is a waste of keystrokes, let’s not sucked into someone’s need to show they know more about english abyss.
Talking and writing about baseball is gud, however it gets done. lol.
Another casualty of the slow off-season …
i hear what you are saying, but you have had competitive teams to follow for several seasons. It’s not like you’re the Reds.
Offering a qualifying offer and receiving draft pick compensation at free agency would have been a better than this. True Pirates fans are disappointed. It’s not just poor choices by mgmt and ownership, it’s also bad for the game.
Disgusting
No offense, but did you actually think that it was likely that Pittsburgh would have ever even offered a QO?
I do, yes. And if he accepted, that wouldn’t have been terrible. But I doubt he would when he’d likely be able to land a 4 year deal elsewhere.
You can believe it, but I just find it highly unlikely that the Pirates would dish out $18 million+ for an aging outfielder with poor defensive metrics.
Colby Rasmus got one a couple years ago. So I don’t doubt it lol.
Pretty sure this move indicates that there’s no way the pirates were going to risk giving Cutch an $18M qualifying offer and rejected to lose him for nothing at the end of the season.
Rasmus didn’t get a QO from Pittsburgh though. How many qualifying offers have they given? To whom? And how old were they?
I would love for the Yankees to call about Harrison and the pirates still demanding Torres.. that would just make my day.
Giants should now sign Arrieta. Cutch and Longoria alone won’t get them back into the contender conversation.
Chris Stratton was awesome down the stretch for the Giants, I don’t think Arrieta will be that much better than him in 2018. Stratton is a good piece to bet on.
I think they need Cain and JDM to get them contending again.
Give us the details already!
trading gerrit cole and andrew mccutchen for a bag of nothing
bold strategy cotton lets see if it pays off for them
I guess the Pirates game plan is, trade for whatever is offered as fast as possible to get in position to obtain the 1st over all pick a few years in a row…
Cutch was on the market for over a year now. From what was reported, the pirates were fielding offers since mid summer last year at least. If they were only interested in dumping salary, they would have traded Cutch no later than December 2016 and Cole would have been gone before last seasons trade deadline. Not very speed for grabbing the first offer as quick as possible
@chound
If you pay attention you will see that is not what the Pirates are doing or did
Trading Crick and Reynolds for McCutcheon is a good deal for the Giants. Duggar can take I’ve CF and provide the defense they need. Slater can platoon with Pence, and McCutcheon.
I was surprised to see that Crick had resurfaced and had some decent numbers. For quite a while he was seen as a complete bust for a First Round draft choice and had dropped off the radar of even the most dedicated prospect hounds. Getting anything for him must be seen as a win for the Giants.
San Francisco continues to acquire old over priced players who are past their prime in the Giants’ quest to win 75 games.
Actually this moves the Giants projections to 85 wins. Which is 5th in the NL. Clutch is 31 not 35.
These Giants are looking more and more like the 2012/3 Phillies every day with this being their Michael Young move.
Agreed, this is the year they have to make the playoffs, or you will see some selling on their part. Not sure but they might be over the cap now.
$7M under
McCutchen was a great player in his 20’s but his 30’s will most likely be mediocre
Thank you oh Great Mesmero. Now tell us who will win the Super Bowl in 2026.
how old will Brady be in 2026?
Las Vegas Raiders
i guess the talks for billy hamilton really did go nowhere
That’s a good thing. Hamilton is not a good baseball player
Haha short and sweet
Giants are still probably the 4th best team in their division w all these moves
No I’d say the 2nd worst
Longenhagen had Reynolds rated as the Giants 3rd best prospect in 2016, no rankings for 2017 yet. Gave him a 50 FV grade. Switch hitter.
Realistically, Cutch has been good for 4 months out of the last 12 on the MLB calendar and bad for 8 of those months. Given that, I think this is a reasonable return.
Wait?Just the two prospects?! That’s it?!
1 year left on a guy that is not as fast as he once was so slower in the field. Very streaky hitter, and lost some of his once average arm. Teams are trading for the now not the what once was.
Crick/Reynolds is basically equivalent to Feliz/Martin, maaaaaybe Reynolds has more upside. And they were just throw ins in an already underwhelming Cole package. For the greatest Pirate in decades. This is absolutely disgraceful and Huntington should be ashamed.
Name a team that would give up more and why that team would do so.
Teams aren’t trading for 2013 Cutch and don’t care about his place among Pirates alumni.
If that’s the case, just keep him. A reliever and a so-so outfielder in A ball isn’t worth it. And if he’s not that valuable anymore, maybe you could extend him at a reasonable price, or at least get a comp pick. That is if you don’t extend a closer after one good year or an injury-riddled catcher after one good year.
Um, Kyle Crick WAS a comp pick.
Trading McCutchen finally gives Meadows a shot in the majors so there’s that.
Cutch is a slightly above average corner outfielder on a one-year contract – what return did you expect to get?
I wasn’t expecting a Cole-like package (which was also underwhelming), but at least something better than the equivalent of the throw-ins of that trade.
it’s a shame the Pirates didn’t bite the bullet before his down year, when his value had peaked and there was still years on his contract.
I guess the market decided he isn’t worth much return – lord know he’s been out there long enough for the Pirates to gauge returns.
It makes no sense. After 16, which was Cutch’s down year, the Nats were discussing guys like Giolito who at least had major upside. He rebounds in 17 and now he fetches nothing close to that. I find it highly unlikely that one less year of control would drop his value THAT much. I would’ve just kept him.
jtkuch
More years of control and the Nats probably viewed Giolito as a likely bust since they were trying to shop him out for practically everyone under the sun. They could have also been expecting McCutchen to have a huge rebound year. But while he performed better in the 17 season than he did in the 16 season, it wasnt like he went back to the 5+ WAR player he used to be. He went to a 2.5 WAR player. Now that 2.5 WAR player costs 14.5 million a year and only has a year of control that plays on a team desperate to trade him. Its the art of the deal, my friend. Thats how negotiations pan out.
Also, if you think only 2 years of control for a pitcher who has shown to be on a decline deserves a better package than the one the Pirates got, you are overvaluing said pitcher.
Since no solid pitching follows the deal to SF, the Giants now have almost no chance to break 500 much less make the playoffs.
Explain
lmao and they extend Rivero
Extend Rivero? Where did you see that?
Extending him does give rivero more value like with hand
Agree. This is the 1st of 4 arb years. Hope the Bucs do get an extension. Will save some Arb money and maybe allow a much better return if one of the guys they just got turns out to be similar.
WOW Huntington!
A few things to consider…
1. Rebuilding sucks
2. Big revenue teams are not likely to commit to total rebuild
3. Giants minor league system teams finished in last place at all levels in 2017
4. Giants current core guys have earned the money & right to stay together another year
5. Giants have not lost major talent yet acquired AL Gold Glove 3B and top 15 NL OF
6. People rant about money committed but it’s not an issue if revenue streams continue
7. Giants most accomplished 3 arms suffered major injuries in 2017 (should be fine in ’18)
8. Defense features 4 Gold Glove infielders and Belt is above average too
9. Adding approximately 50 HR to starting lineup means pitchers gain margin of error
I could go on and on but the Giants are actually well positioned for huge rebound in 2018 and they have top amateur draft picks due to horrendous 2017 season. It’s not the doom and gloom in 2018 that folks predict. And if they have to take some big money hits to deal aging players in 2020 and beyond, well, then they’ll be acting just like their rivals to the south who’ve taken over $100,000,000 in hits paying guys no longer on their roster in recent years.
yeah, acting like the circa 2013 Dodgers. Dodgers only awful contract now is Kemp and have 6 players in their starting 8 under 30.
Goodnight sweet prince.
Time to bring back the freak!
Man, the 2018 Giants are going to be really good in 2013.
Hahaha! Good one!
The Tigers and the Giants ended up with exactly the same record last year (worst in Baseball).
They are taking completely opposite paths. The Tigers have been selling everything with value for the last 7 months. They will likely be at 8-10 top 100s by this time next year (plus Candelario, who is likely to be their permanent 3rd baseman, and is no longer a prospect). Their payroll is going down dramatically
My question: Who is will get to the playoffs first?
Possibly the Giants will get there first, but the Tigers having the better farm system and the Giants having a bad farm system means the Tigers will probably be more successful and for a longer period of time..
The Giants farm system isn’t terrible. They produce solid players, maybe not HOFers.
They have the #28 ranked farm system in baseball as of Jan 4th, 2018. It would be great if you had any idea about what you are about to say before you say it.
The rankings are speculation. They don’t guarantee success. You missed my point. Panik wasn’t highly rated. Yet, in 3 seasons, he has been an all-star and won a gold glove. He is a solid player. He will probably another 8-10 years.
I understand that some prospects that were never highly regarded can become solid players. Every team has those players. Its just that 27 teams have an overall a better batch of prospects than the Giants, including players that are not highly regarded but could develop into solid players.. It doesnt mean that nobody good will come out of the farm, but they dont have many players in their farm that they can rely on to be solid.
Its not just “oh you can get panik see they have a good farm they have a good player!!” its about how many players they have like him, Its about talent and depth. You missed every point in every single one of our interactions.
bleacherreport.com/articles/2751590-bleacher-repor…
All of that is true- but the Giants have never had a “good” farm – look at their rankings going back for years- all of that being said – the subpar farm produced
1b- Belt
2b- Panik
SS-Crawford
3b- Sanfdoval
C- Posey
not bad for a bad farm system- and they also pushed out Cain, Lincecum, and Bum –
its obvious its 2018 or bust for Bochy, Evans, and Sabean
The subpar farm produced 8 players worth mentioning in how many years? Thats nothing to brag about. Thats literally why its a bad farm system. Good players can come out of a bad farm. What seperates a good farm and bad farm is how many good players come out of your farm. Not whether or not good players come out of your farm at all.
You can’t predict a team’s, or player’s future based on a present rankings. You need to look at them over a few seasons, and how they grow. Heliot Ramos just turned 18, and yet he is well regarded. His age puts him low on most peoples rankings.
You cant predict for certain, I agree, they are projections for a reason. However, you cant just ignore the lack of talent coming out of the Giants farm. If you think the #28 ranked farm system is going to produce a WS team you are out of your mind. The lack of a good farm is why the Giants have holes in their roster that need to be filled by signings/trades. Thats the point you are missing. Every team has a handful of highly regarded prospects. But its about depth. Its always been about depth. The Rays had Evan Longoria all the way up to this point but couldnt do anything with it because they didnt have a deep pool of talent in their farm. Neither do the Giants. Stop pretending their farm is good just because a few good people make it out of there.
Huh? They didn’t have great rosters in 2010, 12, or 14. The Giants FO is always scrambling for players. Hell, this is the best roster they’ve had in a couple of decades. The Giants roster has never been stagnant. ZiPS has the Giants winning 82 games this year, before the McCutcheon trade. Adding a 3 war playe…
That only solidifies my case further that their FARM SYSTEM is not good. So thanks for that. I also never said anything about their MLB roster being poor/great.
Umm. Huh? The Giants used their farm system to upgrade their roster. They dumped salary. Next off season offers up a bonanza of players. I can see them going after Clayton Kershaw. The Dodgers have trouble being successful in the post season. They will have the money.
There is no way Clayton Kershaw goes to SF.
You cannot tell me that there isn’t a team in major league baseball willing to give up more then a second round pick in a ball for Cutch. Sorry Nutting you lost a fan today, and a long time one too. UNACCEPTABLE!
lol which bandwagon are you going to hop onto? im going assume this isnt the first time you jumped ship because you dont understand trade values and think that the world should have been traded for a guy who has a total of 1.8 WAR over the last two years and only has one year left on his contract
Well, the Pirates have been trying for over a year and got a former 1st round pick AND a second round pick. Obviously you are not really a long time fan or else you would have cared enough to read what they really got for Cutch (along with some international bonus pool money. If you are from Pittsburgh, you must be listening to some sports talk right now. Sounds like what must be being said right now.
There was a team willing to up more than a second round pick in A ball for Cutch.
The Giants.
They also gave up a 25 AAA RHP first round pick.
No team was willing to give up more. If ONLY Cutch was worth was Yinzers think, Ben Reiter would have a cover story about the Pirates on SI
Forwhojoshbelltolls
Well said!
Oh he can tell you that stud since he has been shopping him for almost two years now! Sorry you do not understand trade value and let your fandom delude you into thinking you just traded the MVP Cutch because you did not. That was years ago. You just do not understand actual value but the Pirates understand trade value after almost two years. Sorry it did not match your fantasy. And by the way you are still a Pirate fan just one acting like a child.
Giants buying another championship. What happened to parity? /sarcasm
Past their prime Longoria/Cutch is hardly buying a championship…I’d say it’s more like trading mid range prospects (Arroyo could end up being decent) to be at least appearing to be contending…if the team can stay relatively healthy they should be able to contend for the WC but their long term outlook is grim until they decide to start the rebuild process
A lot of prospects “could” end up being lots of things.
Giants fans are the most arrogant I’ve ever seen! They’re the West Coast’s Evil Empire and this trade PROVES IT! /sarcasm
Giants are 94-140 since the 2016 ASB
Pirates fans unhappy; Giants fans unhappy. It must be a good trade!
I haven’t seen an unhappy giants fan yet
Its a shame to see the Pirates have to rebuild. It took them w decades to become competitive…but at least they are getting something instead of losing Cutch as a free agent. Crick isnt a bad piece to obtain…
Hopefully it’s one and done. Feel sorry for Cutch. He’s going to a worse team. Neither are contendersb
Lol. We’ll see about that
Weak return for a franchise icon but nothing says the Pirates can’t just re-sign him a year from now.
I doubt the would resign him next year though as Pirates are in rebuild mode so it makes no sense for them and Cutch would want to with contender anyway
Well if that is the case then it’s a good thing the Pirates traded him because the alternative was to lose him for nothing. I’d suggest the Orioles do the same with Manny Machado.
Anyone who says the Giants won’t contend for a playoff spot after this move and their next couple upcoming moves are in denial!!!!!
With Duggar in the wings and perhaps Shaw, Giants aren’t in the worst position… love the infield.. relief corps will be better as health returns… starters, I am good with… just someone to take over CF for a year while Duggar gets ready… and I am not counting out Parker, Slater and Gorkys and Pence…
As a fan of a team that was in denial and waited too long to start a rebuild…the Giants are in denial and are waiting too long for a rebuild.
Giants front office actually respects their fans and are putting their necks out there to compete while we have our stars in place. We have plenty of assets to start a rebuild when necessary. As a fan, I love what the Gs are doing, not ready to throw in that white flag, which is a rather fine decision when you are a massive market team. In the words of Cutch to the Gs fans….LETS GO!!!!!!!!
Just when I thought the deal was bad enough for Pittsburgh I see they will also pick up part of his salary…SMH
So now Nutting and the Pirates are being bashed for spending money…?
They got back $500,000 in international signing cap space. Very valuable. That’s a top prospect. Or a bunch of lotto tickets.
Might be the best part of the trade.
But it cost them $2.5 million to get it! Great investment!
I’m a big fan of Bryan Reynolds. The dude hits.
I like this return for the Pirates better than the one they got for Cole.
People say Cutch will play CF, but keep in mind, the Pirates were all set to move him to RF until Marte got suspended in April.
And so the rebuild begins…
What happened to Austin Meadows? He was all the rage in previous seasons.
He had a rough season
sorry for the Pirates. I know it was to tough to see the White Sox selling off fan favorites. We got some good prospects in return due to Hahn’s contract negotiation wonders, but it is tough either way. I’m hoping Meadows and Glasnow can step up and push the rebuild forward for you guys.
By the looks of your grammar,… you’re the one who should have paid a little more attention in school moron
Another stupid move by out management. Thy make it hard for me to want to watch baseball anymore. I will always want the Giants to win but hope Bochy, Sabean, and Evans are removed from any power with in the organization.
Yeah, what have those bums ever done, right?
How is this a bad move.
I don’t love what the Giants are doing, but this is a very strong move. It’s low cost and Cutch can be flipped in July if it doesn’t work out, or he can be offered a QO for a pick.
Bucs sign Bautista? Why not. I’m sure he will be cheap.
Last outfield who left Pittsburgh for San Francisco ended up with a big head and 586 homeruns
I was almost okay with this until i saw the 2.5M the pirates are paying.
reasons i was almost okay with it is they got a relief pitcher who shouldn’t be bad though maybe not good (and cheap), They got an OF prospect that might surprise in 2 years. Relief pitching was one of their needs going into the season. Now we got two that shouldn’t be the worst and a starter who might end up dominating the pen. The Pool increase is nice though won’t see that benefit for a long while.
but the 2.5 million.. i .. for some reason that just burns me…. I guess the pirates have been barely paying him for years might as well LMAO.
at that return i rather keep him personally eat the money QO him if he has an MVP year and take the pick.
I keep refreshing thinking there has to be more to this…
I’ll be rooting for the Giants when they’re not playing the bucs. Good luck Cutch you will be missed in Pittsburgh.
And if he doesnt have an MVP year, and he most likely wont, then what? Im not sure they needed to send over 2.5 million but this haul is better than the value they would have gotten if they had kept him.
then you let’m walk if you are not going to attempt to resign him.
@ Joe W
Are you on drugs? Talk about being in denial. You want to keep Cutch and QO him IF he has an MVP type year??!!
I got bad news for you … MVP is in the past my man! Distant oast. Deal with it. It happens
He posted on another board that he expects Cutch to return to his 2015 self instead of what he did the last 2 years. Cutch will be lucky to duplicate what he did last year which still was not good. 2 great months to make the 4 horrible months look good. Joe would rather not trad Cutch and let him walk for nothing at the end of another bad season in 2018. If they gave him the QO, they would have to pay Cutch a ton of moneynfor 2019and then watch him walk for nothing.
no that’s not what i said, i never said i expected him to be MVP cutch, but i do say a lot IF he gets close to MVP cutch.. huge difference but i suppose it is easily missed if you are reading fast 🙂
at the return we got yeah i would rather hold him.. IF he returns to mvp cutch QO him, if he doesn’t then no big deal let’m walk or extend at a cheaper rate.
The return on cutch wasn’t the greatest in talent (even for as poor as cutch was doing on a 1 year deal) When i saw we’re paying ~15% of his salary that just blew my top
The Giants are building a powerhouse roster.
Signed, 2012
The steroid era is over . A players prime is over at 32 for the most part . Giants got older but only marginally better !
I could see the Pirates signing Carlos Gonzalez to a one year deal if his market fizzles, reuniting him with Clint Hurdle to try to get him back on track and then flipping him at the deadline.
if only the bucs took the yankee’s offer(along with frazier) they would’ve had someone to replace cutch with
Austin Meadows the guy who’s been a top 20 prospect for 3 years.
If only we knew what the Yankees truly offered for Cole. Wonder if that offer would have made the Astros offer look great.
and then the pirates would still have holes at third and pitching and a prospect that is rated higher than Frazier (though that would probably change this year due meadows injuries).
Adam Frazier and Sean-Rod will hold a corner OR a cheap 1/2 year deal on a player looking to rebuild will hold the line and Meadows will hopefully take over.
Gotta love to see ignorant fans seeing Cole and McCutchen as their 2015 selves. But sadly that’s not the case, so stop overvaluing them so much.
Cole can use the change of scenery and a new pitching coach to work on his head. It’s laughable that his best years are behind him thanks to age
Cutch may not be a center fielder anymore but the guy plays with heart. That’s an intangible you can’t find in your analytics. No reason he can’t put up some good numbers
Twice in the past three years, the Pirates traded favorite players who actually lived here. We’re in another long cycle of mediocrity, at best, and the 10th richest owner in MLB wishes to carp about small market realities
Over the last 2seasons, Cutch had 2 great months last year to go with 6 horrible months in 2016 and 4 horrible months to bookend the 2 great months last season. He is nowhere near what he used to be. Striking out on pitches that he can’t catch up to now. Still a good player but nowhere near what he used to be.
Obdubel Herrera is available.
THE GOAL OF A FRONT OFFICE IS TO DELAY THE REBUILD! This is a stellar move. Everyone is so quick to throw in the white flag and rebuild. The Giants have money coming out of all holes, trading away posey, bum, cueto, ect. would be a horrible move. Going for it all takes balls and the Giants fans will be starting a new sellout streak this year.
Giants and Tigers had the same record last year… worst in Baseball.
Prediction:
Giants will be a slightly above a .500 team next year. “Pseudo Competitive”… but no way they are overtaking the Dodgers.
Tigers will tank for 2 more years and get pipeline of 8-10 top 100 Prospects ready for 2020.
this was going to happen eventually. Good luck andrew. hope you win a title in SF!
bucs got 4 for Cole
2 for Cutch. just 2? seems a little light.
well last place for pirates. front office doesn’t want to contend. Trades happen, but nutting isn’t going to open his wallet. this team is doomed for the next decade, again..
59 wins
The Giants should acquire both Jarrod Dyson and Cameron Maybin. Bruce Bochy is a proven a master of the platoon and substitution.
The Giants should acquire both Jarrod Dyson and Cameron Maybin. Bruce Bochy is a proven a master of the platoon and substitution.
Having had more time to think about this – As a fan of another NL West team what the Giants are doing is delightful. They’re postponing their inevitable rebuild while losing value on the core as they age – think Posey, Belt, Bumgarner. Soon they will be getting the same value as the Pirates are now. Calling a forced rebuild by 2020.
I call you have no idea what is going on.
Oh yeah? Explain to me because this is what I see.
McCutchen is a one year rental and a shell of himself. They have a depleted farm system. Hunter Pence is a fourth outfielder at best. Regular season Bumgarner is not the same as postseason. Cueto, Samardzija, and Moore were all much better before becoming Giants. Posey will start aging soon. Belt too. Think they can hit 90 wins with this roster?
And how accurate are your predictions? Just because you don’t see them winning 90 games, it doesn’t mean it is impossible..By the way, Moore was traded away.
True on Moore. I had forgotten. So SF has a really iffy 3rd-fifth man rotation. Not much better on their bullpen. Colorado, AZ and LA are all about as good as last year and SD might be slightly better with the experience.
You’ve critiqued my opinion, but what is your prediction on the subject?
Great trade. Cutch is a 5+ WAR improvement in LF or a 4+ WAR improvement in RF for the Giants. The Pirates get 2 of the Giants top 10 prospects including one that will plug right into their bullpen.
2018 Giants
LF – Cutch – 3.5 WAR (5+ WAR improvement)
CF – Doesn’t Matter, it will be better than Span
RF – Pence – 1.5 WAR
3B – Longoria – 3.0 WAR (5 WAR improvement)
SS – Crawford – 3.0 WAR (1 WAR improvement, 2015-4.5 WAR, 2016 – 5.7 WAR)
2B – Panik – 2.5 WAR
1B – Belt – 3.3 WAR (1 WAR improvement – 2015 – 4.1 WAR, 2016 – 4.3 WAR)
Bumgarner – 3.4 WAR (1.7 WAR improvement – 2015 – 5.2 WAR, 2016 – 4.9 WAR)
Cueto – 3.0 WAR (1.8 WAR improvement – 2015 – 4.0 WAR, 2016 – 5.6 WAR)
Shark – 3.8 WAR (same)
Getting Melancon back.
This is a 85-88 win club. Good enough for a WC. Pick up Dyson and add 3 more wins. Get some production from whoever they roll out #4 and #5 in the rotation and maybe even better.
Great War analysis. Too bad war doesn’t tell for beans the future like a scout’s gut/intuition can do.
It is possible to assemble a team that is the best war at every position, yet injuries and bad play together can put them in the cellar.
There is reason to be optimistic if you are a Giant fan. The Giants are only going as far as the health and performance of the players takes them moving forward, especially the rotation. Remember, war doesn’t measure going forward, only backward.
85-88 wins doesn’t guarantee a wild card. If they don’t get in, what happens to the Giants? Do they finally accept a rebuild?
Hell, one season they won 103 games and didn’t make the playoffs. The team isn’t that old. They do have players coming along that will be solid players. By that time, they’ll have enough room in the budget to add key free agents.