FEBRUARY 27: Honeywell underwent surgery today, Topkin tweets.
FEBRUARY 23: Rays top pitching prospect Brent Honeywell has been diagnosed with a torn ulnar collateral ligament in his right elbow, tweets Marc Topkin of the Tampa Bay Times. Tommy John surgery has been recommended for the promising 22-year-old.
The diagnosis represents a worst-case scenario for the Rays in the wake of yesterday’s ominous arm injury for Honeywell. The early diagnosis was a forearm strain, though that’s often a precursor to a UCL tear upon further testing. Topkin noted yesterday that the injury was of “major concern” to the Rays. Honeywell reportedly threw roughly 10 pitches in a batting practice session before loudly shouting after his final pitch and eventually walking off the mound with a trainer.
The likely loss of Honeywell for the season is a brutal hit to the Rays’ depth. Even though Tampa Bay is hardly lacking for rotation alternatives, Honeywell ranks as not just one of the best pitching prospects in baseball but one of the top overall prospects in the game. Each of Baseball America, MLB.com, ESPN, Fangraphs and Baseball Prospectus ranked Honeywell within the top 15 overall prospects on their respective top 100 lists heading into the 2018 season.
Honeywell, the No. 72 overall draft pick in the 2014 draft, enjoyed a terrific season in Triple-A against older competition in 2017, tossing 123 2/3 innings with 11.1 K/9, 2.3 BB/9, 0.8 HR/9 and a 41.2 percent ground-ball rate en route to a 3.64 ERA, a 2.84 FIP and a 2.77 xFIP.
Topkin had previously reported that Honeywell was likely ticketed for Triple-A to open the season, as the Rays are prepared to open the year with a four-man rotation of Chris Archer, Nathan Eovaldi, Jake Faria and Blake Snell. Matt Andriese will begin the season as a multi-inning reliever, but the extra off-days early in the 2018 schedule mean the Rays won’t need a fifth starter for several weeks. Andriese seems likely to eventually step into that role. Honeywell could’ve been called up early this summer to avoid Super Two status or, at the very least, called up at some point in May once the team had secured another year of club control over the highly touted righty.
That, of course, won’t be the case at all now at any point in the 2018 season. The Rays have alternatives to eventually step into the rotation as needed, though none comes with an upside that matches Honeywell. Nonetheless, the Rays have an enviable stock of young pitching in the upper minors and already on the 40-man roster, led by Anthony Banda, Jose De Leon, Ryan Yarbrough and Yonny Chirinos.
I hate seeing these kids having to go through this crap.
All the comments in this thread have at least 9 downvotes. Someone obviously has created multiple accounts. Comments like I hope he gets better soon don’t get 9 downvotes usually.
In today’s America it’s the norm man. Sad but true. What the heck is positivity or compassion? Sucks for Honeywell and the fans, was really hoping to see him in action this year. Kind of bad karma for tanking and selling your team off. You don’t get to keep the cheap elite arm either this year. Long year for Florida baseball fans.
It’s clearly the same person. Every post has 13 downvotes. Go to any other thread and find me where exactly all the comments have the same amount of downvotes? It’s the same person it’s so obvious.
Downvotes are a tragedy. Thank you for your service iverbure. Keep investigating those downvotes.
How do you give down votes on the app. I don’t see it ? But I am not the sharpest tool in shed
There isn’t down-voting or up-voting on the app…which is nice because I am delicate and I don’t want to get my feelings hurt
Unfortunately kids have swarmed onto this site, especially in recent months, and they get their kicks by trolling and downvoting. It sucks because this website was once primarily visited by knowledgeable baseball fans and a great place for discourse. Only thing we can do is ignore the troll comments completely, ignore the up/downvotes completely, and wait for them to get bored and find another place to piss people off. Human nature is to react, and the reaction is the payoff for them. Everyone needs to fight the urge to respond and just ignore it completely.
How do you vote on a comment anyway? I’m using the app on an iPhone
Only works on the website, which is accessible on your phone of course. You can even get a silly little avatar! (like mine)
Ok! Thanks!
or use the app and don’t worry about down votes you can’t see.
I wasn’t worrying about down votes , I just kept seeing people talk about it
and was wondering how it was done! Maybe you should just worry about you!
This is a shame. My best to him in his recovery. Hopefully he’s another TJ success story.
How does a comment like this get downvotes?
Dumb people
maybe they are not fans of his. or just trolling. could be any number of reasons.
who cares?
The 20,000 rays fans in the world have to be depressed these days
Evan gets traded to the team by the bay, Dickerson gets a DFA. Honeywell needs Tommy John, and this is all I have to say… Obladee, obladah- life goes on, brah. La-la-la-la life goes on…
Looks like you guys found your culprit !
You forgot about trading Odorizzi.
I’m not a rays fan, but a real fan of a team sticks with their team through thick and thin, as frustrated as they may sometimes get with the decisions made and performance of some players they still back their team instead of put them on blast. Eventually when their team turns it around and starts to win it makes it that much sweeter.
You can hate what they’re doing but still remain loyal to them. Take it from me, I’m a Browns fan.
Breaking news. Can’t believe this is happening. Whats going on with tommy john surgery and the rays though. It has to happen to an ace like every year for them
This is why Scherzer and Greinke get those contracts. There are no pitching prospects. Young pitchers suck for this reason.
Oh BTW, the recovery rate for TJ surgery is at best half what it is commonly portrayed by corporate baseball media.
There are no pitching prospects? Too early to get metaphysical.
especially since he’s a repetitive prospect.
Honeywell ranks as not just one of the best pitching prospects in baseball but one of the top overall prospects in the game
It’s a common saying TINSTAAPP.
“There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.”
The flameout rate is just too high to bank on anything of substance.
Yeah but aces gotta come from somewhere. Isn’t it safe to assume that the top 10 starters in aaa are more likely to be among the top 10 starters in the bigs at some point in their careers than the 11-20 starters are?
Hot take alert
Thank You for your personal opinion
There are pitchers who can avoid a serious injury but like in all sports injuries can happen.
What? None of that makes any sense!
The only part that does is the TJS recovery being over blown. I have been looking for a more recent comprehensive article but this one shows some misconceptions and is only a few seasons old. I think you will like it.
espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/12648769/what-missed-tommy…
Thanks Cat Man!
Rays fans can’t catch a break…
Pitchers need to learn and be taught how to pitch without throwing every pitch with all their strength at max effort 100% of the time. That’s likely why TJ surgery is so rampant in baseball these days.
There is something to this; people wonder how those 1800s pitchers threw 500 innings a year, and the likely answer is that they didn’t throw hard at all. Once the home run became a thing, in 1920, a run could score at any moment and pitchers began becoming selected for their ability to miss bats – pitchers in the early days of baseball never struck anyone out. Obviously, training has a lot to do with it, and there are some schools, like Rice, that are famous for abusing their pitchers, but the human arm can only take so much
I don’t even think it’s old, much more like in the last 20 years or so. When baseball became infatuated with radar gun readings. Pitchers in the 90s and early 00s weren’t as affected. Greg Maddux, Randy Johnson, Roger Clemens, Tom Glavine, Curt Schilling, Mike Mussina, etc., all pitched over 3,000 innings and never had a UCL tear. They pitched deeper into games, threw more pitches, and when needed had a little extra effort they could put into pitches. Today pitchers are all concerned about throwing as hard as they can, and don’t know how to pitch.
Tom……If you go all the way back to the 1800’s the first pitchers threw underhand. That and sidearm are more natural movements.
There were pitchers in the early to mid 20th century who threw very hard. If you want a really good look fastballs…watch the documentary called “Fastball” If dispels many myths (much like the book “The Year Babe Ruth hit 104 Homeruns” dispels myths about smaller parks etc). Everyone is aware of Chapman’s famous 105.1 and Ryan’s 100.9. What isn’t widely known is Ryan’s fastball was measured 5 feet in front of the plate. Chapman was 50 feet in front, basically just after it left his hand.
Do the math and adjust for the different distances and Ryan cracked 108.
BTW using science and math…Feller threw at over 100 as well…in street shoes…on a flat concrete floor.
To your point….I think it was Smoltz who pointed out once that a huge difference between the 80’s-90’s and today is back then pitchers pitched and only reached back for more when really needed.
Wasn’t Walter Johnson clocked at 110 mph once? Also I saw Nolan Ryan hit 105 in the Astrodome in the 80’s! He hit Dave Winfield in that game
for San Diego
and he charged the mound
and they went at it! Good times!
Johnson’s official at that time was 122fps or 83.2mph but they used sloppy methods. The speed was measured after it would have crossed home plate…like 15 feet past it if memory serves (it didn’t serve me earlier when I posted Feller was in street shoes etc…that was Johnson). If you extrapolate, as the do in the documentary “Fastball” Johnsons speed was 93.8
mlb.com/news/lindsay-berra-fastball-searches-for-t…
Appreciate the Facts!
great documentary if you get a chance to see it…it’s on the web
Ok! Thanks! I’ll check it out !
He has a fluid, effortless delivery. It’s the pitchers with the violent deliveries, such as Riley Pint, that are more likely to have issues. But the very nature of pitching is violent and sometimes even the most cautious undergo the knife.
I would say that’s sometimes the case. But I don’t think it makes a difference really.
Yes you could say Nolan Ryan and Mariano Rivera had fluid deliveries and pitched 20 years. But violent or not fluid delivery guys such as Lincecum and Chris Sale have had 6- 8 years pitching with no injury.
and bow Chris sale is doomed
That’s not the case at all. The primary cause for this type of injury is is over rotating on breaking pitches (going palm up instead of thumb up) combined with not allowing enough recovery time. Recovery time is not only days off between throwing, but also not stressing the area during the off season.
Then you have to add in that many of today’s players played baseball year round (games and training) as kids. They throw a lot more pitches throughout the year than players did in earlier decades. So now you have 23 year old kids with as many innings on their arms as 30+ year old pros had just a few decades ago.
You mention recovery time
and days off between games, but the Atlanta Braves great staffs of the 90’s utilized a throwing program for the off days . They didn’t have very many problems at all. In fact they have 3 HOF from that staff!
I disagree. His delivery reminds me of Tyson Ross’. I feel Honeywell doesn’t use his lower half as efficiently as he could to take stress off of shoulder/elbow.
After watching him pitch in AFL the year before, I was impressed with his stuff. But I predicted shoulder issues. Glad it is his elbow, but he needs to incorporate the lower half if he wants to stay healthy after recovery.
Dr. Frank Jobe…………..
“Throwing is good. Throwing really hard can be bad.”
That reinforces my Braves story in fact!
kids are taught to throw, not pitch. Kids idealize guys like Chapman and others, when they should be idealizing guys like Kheuchel
Also Greg Maddux!
Also Greg Maddux !
older style believe in more throwing while the newer style is to dial it back. maybe its somewhere in between. hopefully they get it right one of these years
That sucks,I hate seeing these top prospects get hurt
These smaller frame pitchers can’t be going max effort at such a young age. There has to be a way to prevent these ucl tears. Old school pitchers never had this problem and that’s without current technology at their disposal
Just to name a couple large framed pitchers, Tyler Kolek & Lance Lynn who are 6’5 260-280 and they had TJ surgery. Did the majority of old school guys throw mid 90’s or the wicked breaking pitches that some of these pitchers do nowadays? I think it’s kind of like why does the NFL have more concussions now then say 30 years ago? It’s because the players are definitely bigger, faster & stronger which equals more violent results.
Pedro Martinez
Ron Guidry
Tough break for Honeywell and the Rays. The problem with talking about pitching depth in the minors is the fact most of those guys won’t succeed at the MLB level. We have no idea if Honeywell would have done anything in Tampa Bay either.
Absolutely brutal. Have to feel bad for someone to be that close to living the dream in the majors only to have this happen.
Ugh.
Karma for tanking before the season even starts.
Idiot
Rays ripped the heart and soul out of their dugout with the Souza, Jr. trade, now Karma strikes back. Also Honeywell’s calling out of Archer to pitch like Ace, didn’t help.
If you think a pitcher that carries a 4.00+ERA is a ace then you are correct. I really like Archer but you have to admit he has under performed the last 2 seasons.
To me, Cobb was our Ace, just couldn’t stay healthty..
Use FIP, xFIP, and SIERA to see his real ERA. They’re barely different from each other which tells me what it should be. I want to say it was around 3.40.
Isn’t there a guy somewhere in Florida , that can teach how to actually throw a baseball without putting strain on the elbow
impossible to do so… unless you wanna play softball
Sidearm is a more natural motion…throwing overhand and hard all the time destroys elbows…speed kills.
Get Healthy Kid.. i hope he bounces back.
Rays 2016 revenue $206 Million not including team revenue sharing (source: https://www.statista.com)….and one could assume that 2017 was and 2018 should be equal or better.
Cots Baseball projected player salaries for Rays 2018 payroll is $77 million
Uh, I only have a public school education and certainly don’t know all of the Rays internal expenses, but that’s a surplus of $129 million above player payroll. With Honeywell going down for the next two season, I’d say they need to invest in some pitching and position players.
Owner has to save money to pay for a stadium
Like Sternberg is going to pay for his own stadium? He’s going to con the poor tax payers to foot the bill.
That’s their own dumb faults then. All they gotta do is look at the other team in Florida. If they get duped into paying for the stadium they’re insane. See the definition of insanity.
Rays have very good pitching depth.
With Honeywell it sucks that he tore his UCL but having it happen early in spring training allows him to be ready for ’19. This is why pitching depth is important & I am happy the Rays acquired another young arm in LHP Banda (young pitchers do have one good thing tho- options).
Horrible news for him, his family, and the Rays organization. Here’s wishing him a speedy and successful recovery.
RIP Honeywell
gone but not forgotten
I was afraid this was the case when the injury happened. Hopefully he fully recovers and can be a part of the next contending rays team.
Man, why all the downvotes on these comments. A lot of these are just hoping he has a speedy recovery. What’s so bad about that?
I geuss some people are going on a downvote spree this morning.
Trolls and/or misinterpreting a downvote as a sympathy “dislike” or something
it’s Casey’s Partner’s band of idiots; that’s the only reason why yet another one of his stupid comments here has 6 upvotes
RIP Rays. You’ll be missed by the 10 fans you have left.
Hmm…honey, bees? No, beads. Bees?!?!?!
No arrested development fans i see.
Just remove the UCL at birth.
RA Dickey was born without one! Cost him in the draft, but I think he’s done ok!
Wonder if this’ll prompt the rebuild more. You’re basically 100% out of contention for at least the next season or so. You’ll just lose a year on Colome/Archer which’ll make them less valuable. I’d sell high, even though Colome didn’t have a spectacular year, if he regresses, that isn’t your problem.
I had a coach 15 years ago say the most unnatural movement in sports is to throw a ball overhand. So in summary there’s the issue with the tommy John epidemic.
You guys ever see pics of an old true screwball pitcher ? The way his arm is permanently deformed
Now that’s not a natural movement at all!
it’s all down hill from here
Hoping for a speedy recovery. This sucks for him and will cost him a lot of money.
This is from a few years back but still pertinent…interview with Dr. Jobe
static.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/bp/1431308.html
Offseason keeps getting worse…he wouldnt have made team out of camp anyway, but the way the Rays work things we may see him in 2020. Maybe.
It used to be kids would play one sport then move onto the next and onto the next – each time letting their bodies use different muscle groups and range of motion activities.
Today they specialize at year 10 and begin a cycle of Little League, then Fall Ball, then Winter Ball and if they’re good enough maybe Travel Ball – the number of innings they put on their arms (most under the instruction of a parent coach without training) is ridiculous and by the time they are in college/ minors their arms are dead or damaged from excessive use.
Call it
Hopefully he has a nice smooth and easy recovery
How does this keep happening? Has baseball gotten to the point where they are overprotecting pitchers? Starting at the youth levels? It seems like all these efforts to protect pitchers arms have led to more injuries. I don’t pretend to know the answer just wondering why we see so many injuries when teams are so protective of pitchers arms?
I think the higher velocity plays a roll. Back in the day guys weren’t throwing as hard before the steroid era.
Called it
How does that make you feel?
Very sad to hear. He was my pick for AL rookie of the year
Good thing it happened early in ST so Honeywell will hardly miss any of the 2019 season. Rays are deep in young pitching to easily overcome this injury this year.
“will hardly miss any of the 2019 season” he’ll be lucky to return by August of 2019
Depends. Some heal faster than others. Some need follow on surgery. Good news is he is young bad news is it’s now 1.5 years removed from progression
They always say the recovery is 12-18 months, but the majority of the cases are a lot closer to the 12 month mark.
Yea then they say “he is ahead of schedule”
Guess he won’t continue trash talking Archer for at least 2 years.
Too bad for Honeywell and the Rays. Alex Reyes sends his condolences.