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Market Chatter: Indians, Moose, Cano, Diaz, Thor, Pads

By Steve Adams and Jeff Todd | November 28, 2018 at 8:25am CDT

The Indians’ rotation has come up in trade rumors over the past month, as Cleveland looks to manage a roster with multiple holes and a crowded payroll that is already at franchise-record levels. However, while Corey Kluber and Carlos Carrasco have been speculative candidates to be moved, USA Today’s Bob Nightengale tweets that teams who’ve spoken to the Indians get the sense that Cleveland is more amenable to trading right-hander Trevor Bauer. Kluber is controlled through 2021, while Carrasco is locked into a club-friendly deal through the 2020 season. Bauer, though, is arbitration-eligible for another two seasons. MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz projects him to earn $11.6MM in 2019 — a projection he explored at greater length earlier today. If the Indians are to move a starter, there’s some sense behind making it the one of their “big three” who has the shortest amount of team control and least cost certainty, though there’s still no indication that the team is aggressively shopping any of its starters. The ask on Bauer would figure to be huge — likely including pre-arbitration, MLB-ready help — given Bauer’s 2.21 ERA, 11.3 K/9, 2.9 BB/9, 0.46 HR/9 and 44.5 percent grounder rate in 175 1/3 innings in 2018.

Some more notes on the trade and free-agent markets…

  • Mike Moustakas is “on the radar” for the Cardinals as they look for a corner infield bat, tweets Fancred’s Jon Heyman. While Cards didn’t show much in the way of interest last winter, the absence of draft-pick compensation being attached to Moustakas is an important distinction that has them at least exploring the possibility this time around. Meanwhile, USA Today’s Bob Nightengale tweets that the Cards “made a competitive bid” for Josh Donaldson before the 32-year-old signed a one-year, $23MM contract with the Braves. There were similar reports about the Cardinals’ efforts to sign Jason Heyward and David Price, and the Cardinals also came up shy in their pursuit of Giancarlo Stanton last year when the slugger wouldn’t waive his no-trade protection to approve a deal to St. Louis. Of course, Moustakas is not likely to generate the level of market interest that those players did.
  • There has been quite a lot of chatter regarding Mariners infielder Robinson Cano since it emerged recently that the club would like to find a way to dump his contract, though it’s far from evident whether there’s a particularly realistic match to be found. MLB.com’s Mark Feinsand says that some feel the M’s will find a taker, though he later added that Cano hasn’t yet been approached by the team about waiving his no-trade rights or about giving a list of destinations as to which he’d be amenable. (Twitter links.) One key factor in the Cano situation is the notion of the Mariners dealing star closer Edwin Diaz as a means of offloading the money owed Cano. There is indeed some willingness to do so on the part of the Seattle organization, per Joel Sherman of the New York Post. But it seems clubs with interest in Diaz aren’t necessarily amenable to taking on enough of the $120MM still owed to Cano to make it work. Sherman lists the Mets, Yankees, Braves, Phillies, and Red Sox as teams angling for Diaz, not all of which have any inclination to pick up Cano. That’s not surprising, as it’s an awfully steep dollar amount, even though the long-time star second baseman does still have value himself on the ballfield. That said, Diaz arguably could command something approaching that whopping sum in a hypothetical open-market scenario. After all, he stands out against any other potentially available relievers this winter for his excellence, age, and control. That makes this general structure at least somewhat plausible, though it’ll surely be quite complicated to pull something off.
  • It seems the Mets have quite a few balls in the air at the moment as new GM Brodie Van Wagenen searches for a significant deal that will help jumpstart the franchise. Jon Heyman of Fancred (Twitter link) and Mike Puma of the New York Post (via Twitter) each doused the flames of speculation involving the Mets as a possible match in a Cano swap. But that doesn’t mean the team didn’t explore the subject with the Mariners. SNY.tv’s Andy Martino suggested some possible scenarios involving Cano, though really the basic framework does not seem workable from the Seattle side. Martino says the clubs have batted around a concept in which Seattle would both pay about $50MM of Cano’s salary and take on more in return, such as through Jay Bruce’s $26MM contract, while sending Diaz or Mitch Haniger to New York. Trouble is, the implication there is that the Mets could buy one of those excellent young players for less than $50MM, which doesn’t seem like sufficient salary relief for the Mariners to justify the loss of such core talent.
  • Meanwhile, the biggest name seemingly in play on the Mets’ side is Noah Syndergaard, the uber-talented but health-questionable young righty. The Padres have made clear they won’t part with top prospect Fernando Tatis Jr., per Martino, which dovetails with expectations. While the report indicates that the teams have also discussed San Diego backstop Austin Hedges, he certainly does not profile as a centerpiece in a deal for Syndergaard. Meanwhile, Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic (subscription links) suggests the Rockies could be an under-the-radar suitor for Syndergaard, who’d turn their rotation into a potentially outstanding unit. Though the offense is surely the priority in Colorado, that can be addressed through relatively low-cost investments; adding Thor, meanwhile, is surely an intriguing thought.
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Atlanta Braves Boston Red Sox Cleveland Guardians Colorado Rockies New York Mets New York Yankees Philadelphia Phillies San Diego Padres Seattle Mariners St. Louis Cardinals Austin Hedges Carlos Carrasco Corey Kluber David Price Edwin Diaz Fernando Tatis Jr. Jay Bruce Josh Donaldson Mike Moustakas Mitch Haniger Noah Syndergaard Robinson Cano Trevor Bauer

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193 Comments

  1. Yanks2

    7 years ago

    Did Robinson Cano take steroids or medication to prevent steroids from showing up or both? I’m still confused about that whole thing

    1
    Reply
    • davidcoonce74

      7 years ago

      He took a diuretic, which could be used to mask PEDs or could be used for other things – generally boxers use diuretics for weight loss before bouts to make weight, for example.

      2
      Reply
      • Yanks2

        7 years ago

        Why was he suspended if it wasn’t steroids

        Reply
        • mb22

          7 years ago

          Guys don’t necessarily get suspended for “steroids”.. they could be suspended for anything on the banned substances list .. steroids, of course, are on the list.. but masking agents are listed also because the assumption is they’re taking them to avoid a positive steroid result .. there are other things on the banned substances list that aren’t related to steroids at all

          7
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        • Long Suffering Mets Fan

          7 years ago

          Because there are many banned substances which aren’t steroids. Aderol for one and the diuretic he took because it is often used to mask steroid use.

          Reply
    • ffjsisk

      7 years ago

      He took furosemide or lasix if I remember correct. It’s considered a masking agent but it’s in no way a PED.

      2
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      • deweybelongsinthehall

        7 years ago

        If there was a true medical need, he could have discussed a waiver or an approved alternative. Does Cano look like a guy that needs a water pill? his non-appealing speaks volumes in my book.

        Reply
    • Ejemp2006

      7 years ago

      I used diuretics to hide my marijuana and cocaine habits when I was younger and applying for jobs. Cano could have been doing the same or something worse like heroine. Baseball is a stressful sport to play so it might nit be too far fetched that he was trying to mask a drug habit that was more of a psychological break than a PED.

      1
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      • i like al conin

        7 years ago

        Good point and insight. But it would seem difficult to play a full season while taking cocaine or heroine considering the negative effects. And stopping cold-turkey would have been hard too.

        1
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        • JimtheEsquire

          7 years ago

          Rick Ankiel was a great pitcher until TLR made him lay off the booger sugar.

          1
          Reply
        • Herc33

          7 years ago

          There’s some guys on the 1986 Mets who had a hell of a season on cocaine. In the long run it ended up detailing careers and ultimately their lives, but for a while their they played some good ball under the influence.

          Greenies or amphetamines used to be readily available in the clubhouse. Doc Ellis tossed a no-hitter on LSD. There are some high functioning drug users out there, so it’s definitely possible

          1
          Reply
      • davidcoonce74

        7 years ago

        From what I understand weed doesn’t trigger suspensions in the majors, only the minors.

        1
        Reply
      • OverUnderDone

        7 years ago

        You think it’s plausible that Cano might have been hiding a heroin habit?

        Well, now I’ve heard everything.

        1
        Reply
  2. asuchrisc

    7 years ago

    Send Bauer to the Astros!

    1
    Reply
    • pinkerton

      7 years ago

      I reckon Gerrit Cole would love that.

      5
      Reply
      • jleve618

        7 years ago

        That’d be hilarious.

        1
        Reply
        • sheff86

          7 years ago

          LOL

          Reply
  3. billysbballz

    7 years ago

    Cano market value if he were a free agent would be similar to what Josh Donaldson (32yo) just received if not a little less based image and PED violation.
    If Cano (36yo)were a free agent it wouldn’t surprise me if he was given a one year 15-20 million dollar contract!
    Seattle has to really be creative to unload that awful contract.
    Elsbury 47 million alone would not bring Cano contract down to market value. So I think the Yanks are out but a team like the Red Sox can unload some awful contracts still on their books and get back Diaz as well it may work.
    Pedroia, Castillo, last year of Panda, a few fringe prospects for Cano and Diaz? Wow that would make Boston even better!

    Reply
    • billysbballz

      7 years ago

      Based on Age that was suppose to say! Uhhhgggg

      1
      Reply
    • batty

      7 years ago

      Why would Seattle bring Diaz’s value down by attaching him to Cano? For that matter, why would Seattle take on useless players in that package that only makes them worse? Add in that Pedroia would veto that trade.

      7
      Reply
      • bernbabybern

        7 years ago

        Seattle wants to offload Cano’s contract. Cano is not worth his contract. Seattle will have to pay off much of Cano’s contract to move him. Or, they can also send a underpaid player (Diaz) with Cano in lieu of some of the cash they would have to pay Cano. They would take on “useless” players instead of just paying part of Cano’s contract.

        1
        Reply
        • batty

          7 years ago

          So Seattle, who could get useful prospects, for Diaz on his own, should take the hit over money? Yes, Cano is not going to live up to his total contract, but any team giving out massive contracts like the one he got should be prepared to take a loss on the back end, money-wise. It makes more sense to pay the money to extricate themselves of Cano instead of dumping Diaz in the deal and taking useless players.

          Seattle can make more money instead of just washing it out on players they don’t need/want.

          6
          Reply
        • dshires4

          7 years ago

          That literally makes no sense for Seattle to do though. “Reimagine” is such a stupid word. I wish Dipoto didn’t use it. But when they “reimagined” Paxton, they turned him into Sheffield, a serviceable rotation piece for 2019 and beyond. Seattle stands to gain NOTHING by attaching Diaz to Cano. If we’re rebuilding the organization through controllable, talented youth, taking on Pedroia and Sandoval would run counter to that. It’s not happening.

          5
          Reply
        • ayrbhoy

          7 years ago

          If the Ms trade Diaz they should trade him to a team other than the Mets where his value is not diluted by the Cano contract. Re: Cano the question is what would Cano get on the FA market- If the Mets pay an equivalent figure (12-15m a yr? A player who’s been worth 20.7 fWAR the first 5y) then the Ms pay the balance of 8-12m annually. Ms save at least $60m next 5y and the Mets get one of the best 2B in MLB

          4
          Reply
        • billneftleberg

          7 years ago

          Ayrbhoy,you know as well as I that Robbie isn’t long for 2b. He took the diuretic because of heavy legs, at most and I don’t even think it’ll be that long,he has maybe 2 years at second. He’s destined for DH.

          1
          Reply
        • davidcoonce74

          7 years ago

          Cano is still a good hitter; he was worth 3 wins last seasons despite missing much of the season with the PED suspension. He’s no longer a great second baseman, but I think you could argue he’s in the Daniel Murphy class of bat-first players.

          4
          Reply
        • ayrbhoy

          7 years ago

          Billneftleberg- you’re spot on and I should’ve said one of the best hitters in the league, It was painfully obvious Dee Gordon was a better defender w far more range than Robbie. I think the NY media is playing the ‘match-up game’- Mets have some bad contracts so they’re matching them up w Seattle. Why would Seattle take on another bad contract when they’re desperate to shed salary and why would the Mets take on a hitter that’s destined for DH over the next year or two?

          Reply
      • juicemane

        7 years ago

        Seattle would take on useless players because the cant compete without a 5 year rebuild.

        I mean seriously, Leake is your #1. Or maybe LeBlanc.

        Astros look to own that division for at least another 3 years

        Reply
        • BuddyBoy

          7 years ago

          Gonzales would disagree

          3
          Reply
        • juicemane

          7 years ago

          So your saying this team will compete with Marco Gonzales as your #1??????

          Good Plan!!!

          Reply
        • Shiva Kamini

          7 years ago

          Easy now… It’s a rebuilding team. No point in having a true #1 when rebuilding, you trade them for guys you hope will get there, which the Mariners are doing. Don’t need a #1, you need to lose for a few years and collect the dudes.

          And no, no one said this team will compete. If Gonzales shows up as a #1, great, flip him for MLB ready youth. If not, good, he eats innings and helps you battle for the higher picks.

          4
          Reply
      • braves25

        7 years ago

        Batty….this would be similar to what Atlanta did with Kimbrel a few years ago. They 4 years of Kimbrel to Melvin Upton Jr and traded him to Padres. The Braves took on some money up front in Maybin and Quentin, but also got a couple prospects one of which was a top 50 prospect (Matt Wisler) as well as a comp balance draft pick (Austin Riley).

        So this is a possibility. However Cano’s contract is worth a lot more then Upton’s was. Cano is also more valuable then Upton was at the time. So this is a possibility.

        1
        Reply
    • pasha2k

      7 years ago

      Peddy is not a bad contact. He’s been the heart of the Redsox till Manny spiked his knee during a game, another testament to Manny’s dirty play ruining Peddys last two yrs.

      2
      Reply
    • costergaard2

      7 years ago

      1). Can Boston offload Fat Panda ? I guess so, unless he signs again with the Giants for the league minimum.

      2). Yes, the Sox could trade Castillo, but why would they ? He’s not on the 40 and doesn’t count for cap relief. It’d be nice not to pay him, but they should hold out for something more…

      1
      Reply
    • TeddyBallgameYazJimEd

      7 years ago

      Red Sox are on the hook for Sandoval.. they have already released him which voids the teams rights to him other than financial obligations..and he is signed with another team.. Pedroia is a 10-5 player that they would never trade..

      2
      Reply
    • connorreed

      7 years ago

      If you offset all those contracts, the Red Sox end up owing an additional $31 million, albeit spread out over more years (better for luxury tax purposes).

      Boston gets…

      (1) Cano (who, despite his age, was on pace for a roughly a .303/.374/.471,, 136 OPS+, 6.4 WAR season if he played the whole year)

      (2) Four years of the 25 year old Diaz who was arguably the best closer in baseball last year

      So the Red Sox give up an ineffective, oft-injured 35 year old, fringe prospects, and $31 million for four years of Edwin Diaz, five free years of Robinson Cano (who’s still a very good player), and a better luxury tax situation

      Do you see why this is such a ridiculous trade proposal (excluding the fact that Pedroia has 10-and-5 rights)?

      Reply
    • Backatitagain

      7 years ago

      Cano in 2018-2019 could get a maximum of 5/80 as a free agent. $16AAV, thus his negative value against his 5/120 contract. MLB to allow teams to cancel contracts when Drug policy violations occur. This is how a person gets treated in the real world where the fans live.

      Reply
  4. batty

    7 years ago

    Coming away from the off season with Moose as the big add for the Cardinals constitutes failure by the FO. Being a “bridesmaid” off season after off season for elite and big name players doesn’t build trust between the fans and team. You can only say “We tried” so many times before it looks like a facade.

    2
    Reply
    • tombenton

      7 years ago

      Cardinals Always the bride maid, Cardinal fans are feed up with Mo, If NO big sign or upgrades fans will stop going.

      1
      Reply
      • batty

        7 years ago

        Fans might stop going…but it won’t be any time soon. They aren’t going to drop from 3.4 mil to 2 mil overnight.

        3
        Reply
    • cards81

      7 years ago

      What are the cardinals supposed to do? those players chose not come to st. Louis…They even offered Heyward more money…David Price was offered 30 Million more by boston. Who said publicly they would outbid anyone for price….Donaldson chose the Braves because he had a very good relationship with the GM and that is his home…..so this just a case of those players wanting to play other places nothing to do with the FO

      3
      Reply
      • baseballpun

        7 years ago

        I think Cardinals fans (and I say this as a Cardinals fan) overrate the appeal St. Louis has to players as a “baseball town” with lower taxes than some other states. If you’re a multi-multi-millionaire you aren’t prioritizing your tax bill over what a city has to offer. And while I do think players (some more than others) appreciate the passion of the St. Louis fanbase and the stability of the organization, those are just some factors in player’s decision where to play, and possibly pretty minor ones at that.

        13
        Reply
        • 3rdStrikeLooking

          7 years ago

          I generally dislike Cardinal fans and their self-annointed “we are the best fan base ever” opinion, but kudos due to you sir. Well stated. Agree 100%.

          5
          Reply
        • batty

          7 years ago

          I hate the BFIB moniker and i’m a Cards fan. Thing is though, it wasn’t/isn’t self-anointed. It’s a media thing that has been embraced by many Cards fans.

          4
          Reply
        • callingoutdummies247

          7 years ago

          What fan base doesn’t have that attitude? If they don’t then they aren’t true fans

          1
          Reply
        • baseballpun

          7 years ago

          I don’t think you have to be unrealistic to be a true fan. And my point is that people rag on the FO for not landing big fish, but they’d rag even harder on the FO if they extremely overpaid for players the way the Angels overpaid for Pujols (they already rag on the Fowler contract), which is what they’d probably have to do to get FAs at the top of the market. If Bryce Harper has two offers within $10-15 mil spread out over 10+ years, one from the Cards and another from the Dodgers, he’s going to LA regardless of whose offer is bigger. That’s not the FO’s fault. Nobody should want STL to outbid LA by $50mil to attract stars.

          3
          Reply
        • 3rdStrikeLooking

          7 years ago

          Ill give you that, but if you are outside StL, especially, its usually some clueless idiot that throws the BFIB at you because they heard it or read it. Not because they have ever been there.

          Good fans in St Louis. Been to every ballpark. Are they the best? Probably not. Comparing fan bases is apples to oranges. Each have their own personality, but really only one group has a few bad apples that like to use BFIB as an argument.

          Reply
        • baseballpun

          7 years ago

          I’m from St. Louis, spent 3 years in Boston, and now live in NY. I’ll say that among those three I think STL fans are generally less bandwagony, less entitled (though still entitled). and less prevalent in the national media, which I think makes them less obnoxious. But to describe a fanbase as “better” is pretty ambiguous.

          4
          Reply
        • Dock_Elvis

          7 years ago

          Baseball pun– what many dont understand is the players will still be taxed on their income in their residential state. It balances out. If Missouri takes less…California will make up the difference. The advantage might be Texas or a state with no state income tax. But then again those states find their money in other forms of tax.

          Like most of other cities….St. Louis will be appealing when they contend. But it’s not like these players in their income brackets deal with the harsh realities of any city they play in.

          1
          Reply
        • baseballpun

          7 years ago

          I heard a lot of Cardinals fans lamenting Pujols’ decision at the time and arguing that he really wasn’t getting much more money from the Angels because the taxes would be so much higher. Putting aside the accuracy of that, Pujols can afford whatever he wants in California, just as he could have in St. Louis, but you can’t buy a beach house in the Lou.

          1
          Reply
        • StlSwifty

          7 years ago

          Cards made a “competitive offer”…. lol heard that before. We know they have money to spend, so where is all this money going exactly if it’s not going towards putting a good team together? Same story every year.

          Reply
        • juicemane

          7 years ago

          No major free agent really wants to sign in St. Louis for the next 5 years. The team is not very good and its a crappy place to live with crazy fans. Fowler only went to get paid after he won his ring. He is vascially begging the team to trade or cut him (basically sucking on purpose) so he can carry on the rest of his career in a better city with normal fans.

          Reply
        • baseballpun

          7 years ago

          You’re an idiot.

          2
          Reply
        • User 4245925809

          7 years ago

          Logical thinking fans, that’s which ones. not the fans that just watch/study numbers from their own teams perspective and look for nothing but facts which make them better than every other team.

          Reply
        • cards81

          7 years ago

          Juicemane…I’m so glad you post because I always get a good laugh out of it…what a joke

          1
          Reply
        • nikki29a

          7 years ago

          i agree as a fellow cards fan were one of the best fan bases in baseball but not the best but to say we’re the best is just arrogant just look at any mlb team with history and you will find passionate fans

          Reply
        • hojostache

          7 years ago

          Thank you for being a level-headed Cards fan. I think many fans underestimate the influence of the family on a player. While money can usually overcome family preference, there are some scenarios when players will take less to be closer to home (so they don’t have to uproot their kids/wife) or even put certain teams on their no trade list because of geography/ownership/competitiveness despite the bigger payday. St. Louis may not be as attractive to younger (single) players because it is definitely a midwestern town, but I can see players who want to live in the midwest gravitating there (or CHC).

          While I will never root for the Cards as a Mets’ fan, I wish the Mets had the Cards ownership because they do things the right way.

          2
          Reply
        • stlfilthy

          7 years ago

          BFIB is only used by people who typically are jealous in some way. I grew up in STL and didn’t hear that phrase very much until I moved away

          2
          Reply
      • batty

        7 years ago

        No matter the reason, it will still damage the trust. You can read that on message boards all over. Lots already believe the Cards offer just enough to miss out on purpose.

        Reply
      • daved

        7 years ago

        Thanks for that input, Mr. Mozeliak

        1
        Reply
        • 3rdStrikeLooking

          7 years ago

          Thanks for that input, Mr. No Clue.

          Reply
        • daved

          7 years ago

          You’re correct. I don’t have the board game, “Clue”.

          Reply
        • 3rdStrikeLooking

          7 years ago

          Case-in-point.

          Reply
        • daved

          7 years ago

          You: Sheeple on a comment board who sucks up every ounce of the media and Mo.

          Reply
        • 3rdStrikeLooking

          7 years ago

          Do you even know what in the hell you are typing? Ride a shorter bus to school?

          Reply
        • daved

          7 years ago

          Yes. What don’t you understand?

          Reply
    • rocknwell

      7 years ago

      I completely agree. Sure, STL may not appeal to certain players, but I have a hard time imagining why. If STL simply tries to get a good deal on every top tier free agent, then they will come away with nothing. Idk if that’s what’s happening, but after missing out on 4 big fish in just 2-3 seasons, it sure seems like it! Does the FO have the guts to pull off something big? My gut says no. Always playing in the shallow end and never swimming with the big fish.

      Reply
      • baseballpun

        7 years ago

        Stanton is the proof that it isn’t a matter of ownership or the FO refusing to swim with the big fish. Stanton could have gone to STL and the only factor in his decision was where he wanted to play – the money was already set, and he had no stakes in the quality of the trade offer. He didn’t want to spend a decade in St. Louis, plain and simple. Heyward spent a year in St. Louis and (thankfully) decided he didn’t want to be there long term. It’s just the way it is. Again, STL shouldn’t be making drastic overpayments to attract FA talent.

        5
        Reply
    • Ejemp2006

      7 years ago

      Cardinals are the class of the MLB and their strategy is to drive up the asking price on players so the foolish teams have to overpay to stay competitive. The Cards have an unbelievable core of homegrown young players AND they’re not stuck with albatrosses like Price, Heyward, Albert, and Stanton. Be thankful you’re the bridesmaid and not walking down the aisle with these corps of Al Bundys.

      2
      Reply
  5. ayrbhoy

    7 years ago

    As an Ms fan I’m torn on the idea of trading Haniger and Diaz- All-Stars with team friendly contracts. I can’t remember a more dominant closer in the history of the franchise and Hanny has the chance to be one of the 5 best Ms OFers ever. The problem is this – if we don’t resign Cruz and we deal Cano, Segura and Dee the team will stink and there’s no guarantee the team will be successful w prospects in 2020 or 2021. So why keep them? Personally, I’d keep both deal Cano sign Cruz for 2 yrs keep Segura and Gordon and hope Seager bounces back from his fractured toe injury. If the team stinks mid 2019- deal the lot by the trade deadline then watch the kids play

    1
    Reply
    • cjp2929

      7 years ago

      If that happens I’ll be horribly disappointed. Tear it down. There likely isn’t a player on that roster that will be on the next playoff team. My bigger issue is after seeing the return for Paxton, I have zero faith in Dipoto’s ability to identify talent or the org’s ability to develop the players he acquires. Regardless, it has to be done. Haniger is 28 years old. Not young enough to build your team around. Garb teams also have no need for lock down closers.

      1
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      • dshires4

        7 years ago

        If you have zero faith in Dipoto’s ability to identify talent, what would you say of Haniger? Fringe guy in Arizona that blossomed here.

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        • cjp2929

          7 years ago

          Haniger wasn’t a fringe guy. 1st Round pick, overhauled swing and coming off of a monster MiLB season. He was part of a numbers crunch in AZ’s OF. The M’s definitely didn’t develop him and he was a known commodity. Jerry has consistently traded minor leaguers that have blossomed in other organizations for potential back end starters and 4th/5th OF’s. You will never build a consistent contender with low ceiling / high floor players and gutting your farm system. He didn’t do it in LA and certainly hasn’t done it here. He left the Angels in a far worse situation then they were in prior to his arrival. But don’t let facts get in the way of a good narrative.

          Reply
        • cjp2929

          7 years ago

          Also, how much longer does he get to ride that one successful trade with all of the other questionable to bad ones? Accountability matters.

          Reply
        • Shiva Kamini

          7 years ago

          Cjp2929- when I read your words it’s like listening to myself talk. I agree with literally everything you said above. DiPoto has struck out in the draft (hugely) and in an overwhelming majority of his trades.

          With the amount of trades he makes, you’re bound to hit on a few, doesn’t make you a good GM when for him it’s all a numbers game.

          Paxton only being the most recent example. Not only has it been nationally frowned upon but even if it all works out in the M’s favor in 3 years, was that REALLY the best package he could have gotten? Both now or at the deadline? He called 29 teams and THAT was the best deal?

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      • ayrbhoy

        7 years ago

        I hear ya! I have a little more faith in Dipoto’s ability after all, he had a depleted farm system and brought us Haniger, Pazos, Marco and a variety of not great but useful pieces in Gamel, Shawn Armstrong, Tui and Chasen Bradford, and I’m not giving up on Healy. But, I do share your view on organizational development- we have a poor track record there, look at Happ and Vargas’ success post Mariners. The problem I have is that there’s no guarantee the prospects we get in return will get us more wins than the 89 we had in 2018. At least Hanny, Edwin and Marco are known commodities. We’re in a terrible spot, in a competitive AL division it feels a bit like damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

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        • vtadave

          7 years ago

          If you have to mention guys like Healy and Armstrong to support your GM, you don’t have a lot of ammo.

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        • billneftleberg

          7 years ago

          He’s right though. They had a depleted system Zduriencik had left it bare. I love the prospects he got in the Paxton trade though especially Swanson because he knows how to pitch. Getting Hanigar and Segura in traded was a steal and getting LeBlanc Gamel and Marco for virtually nothing were great moves too. He’s just still cleaning Zduriencik’s mess

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        • khopper10

          7 years ago

          Marco cost O’Neill. He’s definitely not “virtually nothing.”

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        • elmore80

          7 years ago

          Braves could help with your pain. Diaz and Haniger for some very good young players that don’t get expensive for quite a while which could help you add some money to dump Cano. Even Diaz alone could be done.

          Reply
        • ayrbhoy

          7 years ago

          Elmore80- Diaz and Haniger are young and inexpensive for quite a while and there’s no guarantee your young players will be better than either of our known commodities. Unless your trading Acuna which ain’t gonna happen why take the risk?

          Reply
        • ayrbhoy

          7 years ago

          Vtadave- You skipped Haniger, Pazos and Marco Gonzales who per Baseball Reference, gave us a combined 9.4 WAR last year. Armstrong? He came in for 1 month and gave us 0.6 WAR- that averages out to 3.0 WAR for the season, as a reliever! And btw we gave up a middle RP (who got sent back down to AAA) to get 24 HR and 73 RBI’s from Healy. He also had .861 OPS in his 2016 season and 3.1 WAR in 1.5 seasons in OAK.

          Reply
  6. scottstots

    7 years ago

    Mackenzie Gore, Luis Urias, Josh Naylor and Austin Hedges for Syndergaard. who says no?

    Reply
    • paulnewman

      7 years ago

      Padres say no. Gore is probably not going to be traded, absent a pitcher with more control like Blake Snell coming back. Would think Urias or Mejia would be made available in the right deal.

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      • davidcoonce74

        7 years ago

        I’ve seen several variations on this offer, with Paddack replacing Gore, which seems reasonable.. I think Gore is close to untouchable.

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      • Bruin1012

        7 years ago

        Blake Snell would cost a lot more then that the Padres couldn’t sniff Snell without Tatis headlining the deal.

        Reply
        • paulnewman

          7 years ago

          I never suggested that Gore would return Snell. Just that the Padres may consider including him in a package where the “ace” coming back had more control…ala Snell.

          As far as Tatis being necessary to headline a Snell deal……maybe. That said, seen no suggestion Tampa is inclined to move him anyhow.

          Reply
        • Ejemp2006

          7 years ago

          Oh yes Blake Snell the 5 inning phenom. Good luck trying to build a rotation with him at the top. If you want him to keep up those numbers, you’d better also budget for four bullpen arms who can spell him so he doesn’t have to face the lineup a third time. Best numbers I’ve seen for an average pitcher in my life time. Trade nothing for Snell.

          Reply
        • Bruin1012

          7 years ago

          Well averaged almost 6 innings a game and he pitched in the American League East and dominated. He is controlled through 2022 he has filthy stuff and he might be one of the most valuable assets in all of baseball.

          Reply
      • jamesalba32

        7 years ago

        “With more control”. Syndergaard has three years of arbitrary control left. I understand the hesitancy to move a prospect like Tatis Jr, who really SHOULD be headlining a deal like this, but the Padres cant start pinching pennies on guys like Gore, otherwise the deal makes absolutely zero sense for the Mets. Gore, Mejia/Urias, and Hedges is more than a fair deal

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        • hojostache

          7 years ago

          The challenge in this scenario is the Mets front office has been very open about wanting more than “a fair deal”. I hope they aren’t as unreasonable as the Marlin’s FO has been with Realmuto, as they are rumored to want back a Trout-lite haul. I think a top prospect, a couple solid complementary pieces, and one or high-upside lotto ticket types. would have been fair for him going into last season. Now with a year less control I think the Marlins are going to be even less happy with the offers unless a team becomes incredibly desperate.

          If I were a Padres fan I definitely understand wny they wouldn’t want to move Tatis Jr., I actually don’t think the Mets are a great fit for SD’s prospects, which is why I’m skeptical anything will get done..

          The Mets’ top prospect was Rosario…a SS who is finally pulling it together. at the major league level. He always had the glove, but he is showing a more consistent eye during the last few months of the season; early in the season he was regularly waving at balls 6″+ off the plate.. Gimenez (also a SS) is one of their top prospects in the minors, so they already have the positioned blocked..

          I think Tatis Jr. is the type of prospect you make room for, but the secondary pieces aren’t a great fit. I’m not high on Hedges and while they have a bunch of interesting arms, I wouldn’t want back a volume trade to make up for lacking a top talent like Tatis Jr. Gore is not who I’d want headlining a deal as a mets’ fan. He took a hit with an inconsistent season, but he is still widely considered one of the top lefties in the minors. He is too far away to trade for Syn and he doesn’t fit the supposed “want to be competitive in ’19” claim by the Mets. The fanbase would revolt because he won’t sniff the majors for at least another 3 years.

          As a Mets fan I want them to hold onto Syn because there is little to no chance to recoup his full value w/o a guy like Tatis Jr. coming back AND developing into a perennial all-star. I know Syn has had some health issues, but they were more freaky injuries than a recurring injury to an elbow/tendon/etc.

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      • SixFlagsMagicPadres

        7 years ago

        I would replace Gore with Paddack. Gore, along with Tatis, are probably the two untouchables in the Padres’ system.

        Reply
        • bleacherbum

          7 years ago

          Correct. Tatis and Gore are “untouchable”.

          Reply
    • tony gwynn

      7 years ago

      I think AJP is just dancing around the possibility of Thor by dangling combinations of the logjam OF and lesser prospects, maybe one of our C. That’s unlikely to get a deal done. Tatis, Gore and Urias are part of our small market future, and after last year’s very strong showing, Paddack may be on that list as well. I think the pieces AJP is willing to offer will not be enough to land somebody as valuable as Thor.

      Reply
    • iverbure

      7 years ago

      Mlb network had dan o’dowd now and he suggest a Syndergaard for lucchesi hedges and paddack.

      Duquette wrote a piece on Mlb.com suggesting Syndergaard for hedges Margot and Mackenzie Gore.

      Both of these don’t seem enough from a Mets perspective. Syndergaard most likely stays with the Mets in my opinion.

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      • hojostache

        7 years ago

        Agreed. Trying to trade volume instead of a true top talent just doesn’t fit what the mets want. They have been very open about wanting to compete in ’19 and that package falls well short. Hedges is meh…

        Hedges has a weak bat, arguably worse than what they currently have on the roster. Lucchesi is a mid-rotation guy at best. Margot is decent but his career 88 OPS+ is underwhelming, and as mentioned earlier Gore is at least 3 years away coming off of an inconsistent to disappointing last season. Those are all spare parts outside of Gore.

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        • Ejemp2006

          7 years ago

          Mets want to compete every year they just make stupid moves so they don’t fulfill their desire.

          Reply
    • RedRooster

      7 years ago

      Padres. If Urias is traded who’s their 2B?

      Reply
  7. gavinrendar

    7 years ago

    Haha MLBTR calling out the BS pie in the sky claims where Seattle giftwraps the best players on their team for the Mets. Love it.

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  8. baseballpun

    7 years ago

    I can’t believe Seattle would really want to use Diaz as a means of dumping Cano’s salary rather than getting a haul of talent for him.

    If that really happens, a lot of teams should be in on it, and I would include the Cards. Cano has some short term value that could fill the hole they tried to fill with Donaldson, and getting Diaz would obviously be huge. Rather spend $120m+ on Cano and Diaz than $70m (MLBTR projection) on Kimbrel and plug Moose’s low OBP into the lineup.

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    • batty

      7 years ago

      I’d say that i’m unsure if Cano has the arm to play 3rd on a regular basis, but the Cards seem to be willing to move Carpenter back to 3rd with his noodle arm, if they get a 1st baseman. Cano has to have, at least, slightly better arm strength than Carpenter.

      I do not want a combo of Kimbrel & Moose.

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      • baseballpun

        7 years ago

        Yeah, Cano wouldn’t be my plan A for an infield bat. But if they can use Cano to acquire Diaz with a relatively minimal outlay of talent, I’d take it.

        Reply
    • Ejemp2006

      7 years ago

      The Cardinals don’t bring in players who clearly don’t hustle. Cano does not play Cards brand baseball. I could only see the Cards doing a three team deal to get Diaz and help the Ms ditch that albatross deal. Diaz to Cards. Cano to Dodgers. One good Cards prospect to Dodgers. Two good Dodgers pitching prospects to the Ms.

      Reply
      • LADreamin

        7 years ago

        Dodgers don’t need Cano at the twilight of his career. Why would they even have to give up two pitching prospects. Sounds insane.

        Reply
      • jeremyr

        7 years ago

        Eh. Yadi doesn’t hustle. Pujols didn’t hustle. They were home grown, but fans put up with it.

        Cano (if he can play 3rd) and Diaz would drastically improve the team. That’s ultimately what will please fans. And since they apparently can’t sign top free agents, it makes more sense for something like this than sign a 2nd tier guy and hope he helps enough.

        Reply
  9. mr206

    7 years ago

    1) If the M’s are smart trade Díaz in a Separate trade you will get more back! He’s probably the best closer that’s been around in the last 10 years!!

    2) keep cano and trade Kyle Seager

    M’s need a younger team do anything you u can to improve your team because should of did this rebuild 4 years ago

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    • rocky7

      7 years ago

      1). Me thinks your comment stating Diaz is “probably the best closer that’s been around in the last 10 years” is quite a premature overstatement!
      There have been many other better closers with longer track records than his 3 years to make that kind of statement….and as a Yankee fan I would remind you of a guy named Mariano who is probably one if not the best all time who did it on a much bigger stage in NY.
      Diaz seems to be good, but what pennant pressure has he had to endure….NONE!
      And his total career is 3 years to date! Not nearly HOF pal!

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    • vtadave

      7 years ago

      * best Mariners closer that’s been around…. fixed

      Reply
    • connorreed

      7 years ago

      Probably the best closer in the past ten years? Not even close. Compare Edwin Diaz at age in 24 in his second season as a full-time closer (2018) to Craig Kimbrel at age 24 in his second season as a full-time closer (2012).

      Edwin Diaz – 1.96 ERA; 1.61 FIP; 0.791 WHIP; 15.2 K/9; 93.4% conversion rate; 208 ERA+.
      Craig Kimbrel – 1.01 ERA, 0.78 FIP, 0.654 WHIP, 16.7 K/9; 93.3% conversion rate; 399 ERA+.

      Compare Diaz’s first three seasons (2016-2018) with Kimbrel’s (2010-2012)
      Diaz – 2.64 ERA; 2.56 FIP; 1.016 WHIP; 14.2 K/9; 156 ERA+
      Kimbrel – 1.46 ERA; 1.23 FIP; 0.911 WHIP; 15.9 K/9; 269 ERA+

      You could also make an argument for Aroldis Chapman, Zach Britton, Wade Davis, Andrew Miller, and Greg Holland being more dominant in their first few years as a closer, too. And if we’re just going by Diaz’s 2018, Blake Treinen was just as good last year in his first full season as a closer.

      Reply
  10. daved

    7 years ago

    I’ve been hearing about this “competitive bid” crap from Mozeliak for years. I’m sure he was at least $5M short of what Atlanta offered.

    Reply
  11. billneftleberg

    7 years ago

    Why would any team want cano, even if using a diuretic was only for weight management, it’s still a sign that he may need to move to first and that his legs are going. To me, he’s as untradeable as Miguel Cabrera. even if the are 80M that’s still 8M for 5 more years for a DH/1B type. At the time I thought the Yankees were insane to offer 7/170M. So Seattle offering 10/240M was ridiculous. Diaz is good but not worth taking Cano,not even close.

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    • costergaard2

      7 years ago

      Agreed. As a Yankee fan, I was prepared for 7/170 because I didn’t want the years. The problem with whoever has cano is the last two years when he’ll be a PED user in his 40’s and a dead bat. He’ll likely be cut and that team will eat $45mm. If Seattle takes Ellsbury for him, I want $45mm cash at the back end for those last two years. Yanks could pay the difference in salary to the M’s for two years and the M’s are off the hook in year 3 when Ells is off the books.

      Both players have to agree and it’s not a great deal for the M’s, but how else can it work ? Anyone who takes Cano is doing Seattle a favor and should be dealing from a position of strength.

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      • Shiva Kamini

        7 years ago

        What crystal ball are you guys using? Plenty of players, even with PED allegations have been competitive in their years 40-41. Arod, Nelson Cruz, Ortiz, Colon, etc…

        Obviously his premium years will be behind him at that point but who knows where contracts will be by then? Donaldson just signed for 24, if Bryce Harper signs for 35 a year then the next guy wants more the year after, Cano’s contract may not be that far underwater after all.

        Just saying not to make such doomsday scenario assumptions.

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      • connorreed

        7 years ago

        That means the Yankees would be on the hook for $2.86 million in 2019 and 2020.

        If Seattle gives $45 million for the final two years, that means the Yankees are on the hook for a total of $3 million.

        In year three, it’ll be $19 million (subtracting the $5 million buyout for Ellsbury).

        So the Yankees pay an extra of $27.7 million for five years of Cano versus two years of Ellsbury.

        Cano would’ve posted roughly a 7.0 WAR if he played the whole year last season. Ellsbury, at best, is a 1.5-2.0 WAR player (if healthy).

        Sure, Cano is overpaid, but he’s not dead money. He’s still a very productive player. The Mariners are not going to pay for 77% of his contract. Cano’s contract would then workout to about $5.5 million a year for five years. That’s a steal; every competitive team in baseball would be in on it, and they’d give up talent at that price.

        Reply
  12. Priggs89

    7 years ago

    Not only would Seattle add one of their best players to the deal, they would also take back a bad player on a bad contract? Genius idea.

    If they’re that dumb, I really hope Rick Hahn is on the phone trying to eat that entire Cano contract to get him and Haniger.

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  13. norcalblue

    7 years ago

    Diaz would be a perfect fit for LAD; but, the Cano contract is sooooooo ugly.

    Reply
  14. mmarinersfan

    7 years ago

    Yeah, no, I’m not believing this. I really dislike Joel Sherman.

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  15. Jockstrapper

    7 years ago

    Cano for Heyward. Boom! Take him Seattle! Pleasssssseee!

    Reply
  16. bobtillman

    7 years ago

    M’s are going to wind up eating most of Cano’s salary anyway….they had to know that when they signed him. So why not hold onto him, get the value he produces (he’s still an above average player), and worry about 2020 in 2020.

    The Astros are beginning to warble; the A’s got EXTREEMLY lucky last year; the Angels are perpetually confused; the Rangers are a dumpster fire. This is not a division that’s unwinnable. The M’s have a LOT of money….why not go for the gusto. Sign a couple of FA pitchers and see what happens.

    The last thing the AL needs is another team that’s “tanking”. The whole league has become a joke…..4 teams that are guaranteed playoff spots, and one team that gets lucky. The M’s could be that team. Ya, they have some bad contracts; who doesn’t?

    This “playing for the future” is a marketing ploy, nothing more. It ASSUMES that other teams will just sit there as your system “matures”. Plain and simple, it doesn’t happen that way.

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    • iverbure

      7 years ago

      The mariners have a lot of money… ummm no they don’t that’s why they’re rebuilding.

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  17. Danny B.

    7 years ago

    Look, I’m a Mets fan and they are making things difficult for themselves. If Seattle is in fact willing to pay $50 million of Cano’s remaining salary while also throwing in Edwin Diaz, stop being greedy in trying to dump Bruce’s contract on top of that. Paying Cano $14 million per season for the next five years is more than worth it if you can get your hands on an elite closer like Diaz. The Mets should just hold on to Bruce, if anything, play him at 1B in ’19 & ’20 before making Cano the full time 1B for his final 3 seasons. Use Peter Alonso & Brandon Nimmo in a package to get Realmuto and then you can justify trading Syndergaard for elite prospects. I still think the Astros are the best choice. Get a package of like J.D. Davis, J.B. Bukauskas, Kyle Tucker & Josh James.

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    • bryan c

      7 years ago

      I think three trades is highly unlikely, although I wish it could happen. I don’t think Alonso & Nimmo is near enough to pull of Realmuto. and I don’t believe Houston would give up Tucker plus for Thor. You could use Nimmo in the Ms deal if you get Cano with Haniger or you could do a more elite prospect like Dunn or Gimenez if Diaz – I prefer Haniger as it likely costs less for an OF than a closer, and buy a closer on the FA market.

      I only trade Syndergaard if it brings an MLB bat for this season and beyond.

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      • Danny B.

        7 years ago

        Of course Alonso & Nimmo are not enough for Realmuto, that’s why I said a package. Probably add Dunn or Gimenez to get a trade done for Realmuto. If the Marlins declined it, I would happily move on. Maybe the Astros won’t trade Tucker but Bukauskas is clearly expendable. J.D. Davis doesn’t have a spot to play, Josh James could help replace Thor(in theory) and then substitute Tucker with Derek Fisher. Fisher has fallen put of favor in Houston and maybe a change of scenery can do him wonders. I truly believe that if the Mets take $70 million off the Mariners hands, they wouldn’t have to include much to get Diaz. I do like Haniger but he has only played in Arizona & Seattle. Not quite New York and not sure how he would do in a big market. Diaz however has the makeup of a big city closer. Makes all the sense in the world for the Mets to get Diaz.

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        • connorreed

          7 years ago

          The Marlins are asking a lot for JT, and most of the time, Mets fans have some very weak proposals, but if I’m New York, I wouldn’t even consider Alonso, Gimenez, and Nimmo.

          Nimmo has more or less established himself as the best position player on that team. He was worth 4.4 WAR last year, while Realmuto was worth 4.3 WAR last season (both missed time). Of course, Realmuto is a catcher (which is reflected in the WAR, but also significant given the scarcity of good catchers). However, Nimmo has four years left; Realmuto has two.

          I think I’d take two years of Realmuto over four years of Nimmo, but it’s very, very close. To add in two Top 100 prospects in addition to that? Forget it!

          I don’t understand why the Mets would ever consider giving up major league talent to get Realmuto. If they make the decision to go for it while they still have a couple years left with their stars, go all in and empty the farm; don’t subtract your best major leaguers like Nimmo and Thor.

          Reply
        • Danny B.

          7 years ago

          I have to respectfully disagree with you. Nimmo is a solid player, no doubt about it, but a good OF is A LOT easier to find then an all-star caliber catcher. I’m sure if Realmuto were traded to the Mets, the Mets would be motivated to negotiate a long term contract to not only buyout his final 2 years of arbitration but add maybe another 3 or 4 years on top of that. Alonso is a good prospect but many scouts already peg him as a future DH. Gimenez is at least a year or two away and Dunn is a solid prospect but is unproven. I would absolutely trade these pieces to obtain Realmuto & maybe have the Marlins add like Adam Conley to have a dynamic weapon out of the bullpen.

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        • ayrbhoy

          7 years ago

          Danny B- honestly don’t understand why Seattle is linked with your Mets. Cano will have to move to DH in the next season or two. Ms tried him at 1B when he returned from suspension- that was a disaster, committed multiple costly errors. Personally, I don’t see Dipoto trading Haniger and Diaz, those guys are players you keep. And as far as Haniger playing in NY? He can play anywhere- the dude is a competitor who takes his job very seriously, works and prepares as hard as anyone and as even-keeled as they come, nothing fazes that guy.

          Reply
        • connorreed

          7 years ago

          I agree that Realmuto’s value as a catcher is very important considering how thin the position is, which is why I’d take two years of him over four years of Nimmo despite similar production. I don’t necessarily agree it’s an unfair trade, but I don’t think it’d be the best move for the Mets.

          This trade would pretty much be the only big move the Mets could make (with the exception of one or two free agents, although it doesn’t seem likely ownership would be willing to hand out any big contracts). Alonso and Gimenez are New York’s only two big trade chips. Neither are blue chippers, but the rest of the farm isn’t anything special. Kelenic could turn into one, but as of now, he’s not a guy who can headline for any major impact players.

          The Mets were 13 games out from a playoff spot last season. They were a little unlucky and went through a bad slump, of course, but they weren’t particularly close to the playoffs. And that was with Syndergaard (25 GS), Matz (30 GS), and Wheeler (29 GS) staying healthy for the most part, and as good as JdG is, it’s hard to imagine him replicating 2018.

          So, if we take Nimmo out of the equation and add Realmuto, does that take them over the top? I don’t think so.

          I don’t think it’s unrealistic to imagine Mets ownership signing one of the big catchers (Grandal or Ramos) and a solid bullpen arm or two. I think it’d be better to do that, keep Nimmo, and use Gimenez and Alonso to go after another impact player to fill another hole (another infielder, another starter,to complement those four, an elite reliever, etc.). IMHO, that scenario gives the Mets a better chance of making the playoffs than getting Realmuto but losing Nimmo and all their trade chips.

          Reply
    • metfan4ever

      7 years ago

      DO NOT TRADE THOR. He was 13 & 4 ON THE SAME TEAM THAT deGrom WENT 10 & 9. He’s 3 years younger too. TRADE deGrom.

      Reply
      • Danny B.

        7 years ago

        Totally disagree with you. Yes, Syndergaard is 3 years younger but has more mileage on his arm plus an injury history and high effort delivery. DeGrom has a free & easy delivery and is extremely durable. I’d much rather have DeGrom for the next 6 years then have Syndergaard for the next 9 years.

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        • metfan4ever

          7 years ago

          DeGrom had Tommy John, Hyperextended his pitching elbow this year. He came up to the ML @ 26 which is Thor age NOW. @ 26 year old made 22 starts, Thor this year @ 25 has 23 starts, DeGrom had 7 more starts. Thor carrer is 37 & 22, with a 2.93era, DeGrom is 55 & 41 with 2.67- I’ll take the Younger, Taller, stronger, never had TJ guy.

          Reply
      • iverbure

        7 years ago

        NOBODY CARES ABOUT WIN LOSS RECORDS OF SP!

        Reply
        • metfan4ever

          7 years ago

          WOW, so wins means nothing to you, wow. So I guess Dr’s 20 & 4 year sucked? wow, did you just get a participation ribbon and was happy with it. YOU MAY NOT CARE ABOUT WIN BUT OWNER/MANAGERS/PLAYER DO. It’s writer who wanted to play but didn’t have the talent to play who don’t care. WOW—

          Reply
        • connorreed

          7 years ago

          Wins and Losses are about luck. A pitcher can’t control what his offense does, and aces (like deGrom) often match up with other aces (like Scherzer, Kershaw, Nola, etc.), nor can he control what the bullpen does after he comes out.

          The Red Sox were 19-4 (.826) when Eduardo Rodriguez started this season. They were 18-9 (.667) when Chris Sale started. Who’s the better pitcher?

          The Mets scored 1 or fewer runs in 28% of deGrom’s starts and 8% of Syndergaard’s starts. They scored 3 or fewer runs in 66% of deGrom’s starts and 40% of Syndergaard’s starts.

          How is any of that deGrom’s fault?

          As far as Gooden, I think you’re referring to his 24-4 season (not 20-4), and you aren’t understanding what people are saying about wins. Nobody is saying that having a lot of wins is bad. We’re saying they aren’t that important and aren’t very representative of how a well a player pitched, because really good pitchers can have bad records and really bad pitchers can have good records. Gooden’s 1985 season was historic. Not because of his wins, but because he also led the league in complete games, WAR, FIP, ERA, strikeouts, innings, WPA and was second in WHIP, H/9, and K/9. What if the Mets didn’t have Strawberry or Carter in the lineup? Or if they didn’t have McDowell or Orosco to shut it down once he came out? Gooden still would have led the league in just about everything, but he might’ve gone 16-10 instead of 24-4. Does that mean he wasn’t as good? Of course not. He’s not responsible for what the offense and bullpen does.

          Do you see how much wins have to do with the bullpen and the offense, completely unrelated to anything the pitcher actually does?

          Reply
        • metfan4ever

          7 years ago

          LUCK—-LUCK—Have you ever played above peewee, it’s not luck, I’m understanding the game. Yes Dr Has Cater/Stew/etc BUT DeGrom & Thor & Wheeler have the same guys-Luck— “How is any of that deGrom’s fault?”-It’s Attitude. The Attitude he brings to his team’s mental state is when HE”S on the hill vs Thor/Wheeler. LUCK. So Jim Palmer won 20 games 8 years in a row(lucky guy), Greg Maddux, Seaver(on Met teams that did srocr runs, Sutton, –ALL LUCK,

          Reply
        • iverbure

          7 years ago

          GMs don’t care about win loss records of starters. It’s the most meaningless stat ever for pitchers. Continue to rally for it and show your ignorance.

          Reply
        • iverbure

          7 years ago

          Nobody that’s under the age of 40 with basic understanding of baseball care about wins for SP either. It’s a dinosaur stat.

          Reply
        • RedRooster

          7 years ago

          You’re a special kind of stupid aren’t you? deGrom has no bearing on what his offense does. Nor do Thor/Wheeler. End of story.

          Reply
        • metfan4ever

          7 years ago

          My IGNORANCE;;;So anyone who can throw a BB 95+ is OK with you. I guess Houston getting Verlander was nothing, Kyle Hendricks 2016 16 & 8 was nothing, Edinson Vólquez 2015 for KC was nothing, Porcello 17 & 7, Price 16 & 7, Sale 12 & 4, Rodriguez 13 & 5 for this years W/S Winners with an iffy bullpen-was nothing too. Stop playing xbox/play station & got on a real team to learn. Is that why SP get paid and relievers don’t-MY IGNORANCE-YOU’RE A FOOL

          Reply
      • phenomenalajs

        7 years ago

        Agree with first line, but not last. The Mets should extend both of them. Name two free agent pitchers that could match their values at their 2019 salaries. How about at twice their 2019 salaries? It’s not going to happen. If you’re not getting Acuña level prospects, like Tatis, Guerrero or the Mesas back, forget it. If you can’t afford to extend both of them, sell the team.

        Reply
        • metfan4ever

          7 years ago

          Don’t forget Wheeler, he’s younger than deGrom too

          Reply
        • RedRooster

          7 years ago

          What reason do Thor and deGrom have to sign extensions tho

          Reply
      • RedRooster

        7 years ago

        You’d have to be mentally handicapped to think pitcher wins and losses mean anything.

        Reply
        • metfan4ever

          7 years ago

          Call people name Redcock, Did you only get a participation ribbon and never got off the bench. Snell, Kluber, Sererino, Lester, Mikolas, Scherzer, Carrasco, Freeland,Happ,Nola,Verlander, ment nothing to their team. there are all # 1s(except Carrasco same team as Kluber) on their staff but that means nothing. Thor was 24th in wins, Wheeler 30th & DeGrom was 47th on the same team. It’s the same bullpen for all 3. Play the game some time and tell me if you think who ever is on the hill for you gives your team the best chance to win and if what the pitcher is doing(AGAIN WHEN YOU’RE PLAYING)helps or hurts. PLAY THE GAME AND LEARN. X-box, play station is not playing the game FOOL.

          Reply
        • metfan4ever

          7 years ago

          ride the short bus all you life. PLAY THE GAME WATERBOY

          Reply
  18. TurkeyClubSamich

    7 years ago

    Thinking about a rotation headed by Thor, Freeland, and Marquez. Now I need a change of pants.

    Reply
  19. matteste187

    7 years ago

    Diaz, haniger, cano (all of his contract) to the Mets for Gimenez (#1 ), dunn (#3), Anthony Kay, Lindsay (#8), Bruce and Vargas. I’d make that deal.

    1
    Reply
    • billneftleberg

      7 years ago

      As a Met fan I wouldn’t even consider that deal. It would be hard to do even without Cano involved. I like Hanigar and Diaz but that’s an awful lot of our best prospects and we aren’t exactly loaded in our system. Better than Seattle yes, but that’s not hard to be as they are quite bad

      1
      Reply
      • connorreed

        7 years ago

        You’re crazy. This would be one of the most lopsided trades in history in the Mets’ favor.

        You get four years of Mitch Haniger (one of the best outfielders in baseball) and four years of Edwin Diaz (arguably the best closer in baseball last season).

        Gimenez is the only prospect with real value in that deal. The other guys are solid, but really aren’t special (at best, back of the rotation starters, bullpen arms, or bench players).. A package of Gimenez, Dunn, Kay, and Lindsay wouldn’t even be close to enough to get either one of them straight up.

        But to get BOTH of them? All you have to do is take on the $120 million contract of Cano (who would’ve posted roughly a 7.0 WAR [5th in the AL] if he played the whole season last year) while also shedding the $38 million owed to Bruce and Vargas.

        The Mariners would never do it in a million years. But to think that any Mets fan wouldn’t even consider that trade is absolutely insane.

        Reply
    • Danny B.

      7 years ago

      This would be a steal for the Mets because even though the Mets would be taking Cano’s full contract, with the Mariners taking Bruce’s & Vargas’s contract, it actually works the same as if the Mariners just gave the Mets some money. And on top of that, you’re saying that the Mets could get BOTH Diaz and Haniger while holding onto Peter Alonso??? Oh baby, I would make that trade everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.

      5
      Reply
      • Priggs89

        7 years ago

        Agreed. Absolute steal for the Mets. The only prospect in there that’d be a top prospect in a decent farm is Gimenez. The others are nothing special.

        Reply
  20. billneftleberg

    7 years ago

    Diaz isn’t worth taking on that contract, not even close. Relievers in general are very volitile. 2 years ago familia of my Mets had 51 saves and followed that up with 18 saves and then 17 saves so as good as Diaz is, and he is good, the position itself leads to that volitility. Zach Britton went from 47 in 2016 to 15 to 7. So there’s no guarantee that Diaz will repeat.

    That Cano contract is crippling, but that was Zduriencik’s mistake not dipoto’s and it led to Paxton being traded. Since they have a few immovable contracts.

    Seattle is a mess. They had the worst farm by far this year.And even though getting 3 of their top 14 prospects in the Paxton deal, and 2 of whom will likely be in their rotation this year, they are in a very tough spot

    3
    Reply
    • connorreed

      7 years ago

      In all fairness, Britton was injured both years, and then moved to a set-up role when he went to New York. and injuries are also what derailed Familia. Diaz has legitimate stuff, and while he might not replicate 2018, barring any injuries, he should be a very effective closer in the foreseeable future.

      And I also wouldn’t call the Cano contract “crippling”. Sure, five more years of $24 million up until a guy’s age 40 season is not good. However, Cano is not a bad player. He posted a 3.2 WAR in half a season last year. The year before, he was an All-Star, and it was just 2016 that he finished 8th in MVP voting. There’s the suspension, but he was actually better (.317/.363/.497) in the 41 games after returning than he was to start the season. Before the suspension last year, he went a decade of playing 150+ games/season, so health isn’t really a concern (at least not yet).

      Is Cano going to be worth the $120 million when the five years is up? Probably not. But IMHO, he pretty much earns his salary the next two or three years, with the final few being the bad ones (although it wouldn’t be shocking to see him still produce those years like Ortiz, Beltre, Chipper, Beltran, etc. did). Are those few bad years worth it if it means getting Diaz? That’s debatable. I do think the Mets should definitely do it if Seattle is willing to eat some of the contract or take on Bruce’s $28 million.

      And I agree Seattle is in a weird spot. They’re not quite at the level of other competitive teams, and don’t have much payroll flexibility or help coming from the farm. However, they do have a lot of young, controllable talent (Haniger, Diaz, Segura, Smith, Gonzalez, etc.) that most teams would build around rather than trade away in a rebuild. Hard to get good enough to compete with the others, but not really an ideal situation to tear down and rebuild, either.

      Reply
  21. Dodgerfan34

    7 years ago

    This trade doesn’t seem to make sense…but…. the way relievers are now maybe Seattle feels that a rebuild is at hand. They can unload a big contract and move a young closer and receive financial relief. Closers come and go, Diaz value may be at its highest but another closer always comes along. Plus, if you don’t plan on being in most of the games anyways a premium closer is not going to help.

    The extra money can go to players and more money into the farm system. Would I do this? No, but I can see why they are thinking of doing this.

    Reply
  22. strostro

    7 years ago

    Syndergaard to Rockies trade scenario:
    Rockies acquire: Syndergaard, D’arnaud
    Mets Acquire: 2B Garrett Hampson, RHP Peter Lambert, 3B/1B Josh Fuentes, and RHP Justin Lawrence

    Reply
    • jerrytek

      7 years ago

      Rockies fan, I presume.

      1
      Reply
    • Danny B.

      7 years ago

      Horrendous trade for the Mets.

      1
      Reply
    • strostro

      7 years ago

      Oh I forgot to add Jon Gray

      Reply
    • hojostache

      7 years ago

      This could be worse than the ridiculous Ellsbury trades being offered by Yankees fans last season for a TOR arm.

      Reply
  23. metfan4ever

    7 years ago

    It’s all talk to keep on the back page with the stankees. Also, I think the new GM has an issue with Thor because he used to represent Thor. TRADE DeGrom. He’s older, just got the Cy and went 10 & 9 with the same line up that Thor when 13 & 4 and Wheeler went 11 & 7. WITH THE SAME LINE UP-DeGrom should be traded. Value is high- You can add Matz to the trade issues too.

    Reply
    • vtadave

      7 years ago

      Using win-loss…smh. Please stop.

      Reply
    • billneftleberg

      7 years ago

      Agreed I wouldn’t trade Syndergaard. If one has to go trade Degrom. His value will never be higher. And he’s already 30

      Reply
    • iverbure

      7 years ago

      NOBODY CARES ABOUT WIN LOSS RECORDS OF SP! NOBODY INTELLIGENT AT LEAST.

      Reply
  24. Danny B.

    7 years ago

    On Metsblog.com they’re saying that the Brewers have entered the Syndergaard sweepstakes. There’s an easy package to get this done that both teams could live with.

    Brewers get: Noah Syndergaard

    Mets get: Corey Knebel, Keston Hiura, Corey Ray and Jacob Nottingham

    Mets get their closer, 2B option, CF option and everyday catcher in one trade. Brewers get their anchor.

    2
    Reply
    • billneftleberg

      7 years ago

      Nice deal still wouldn’t move Syndergaard however

      Reply
      • Danny B.

        7 years ago

        I would but ONLY for a package similar to this one. Mets have a lot of holes to fill.

        1
        Reply
  25. Dutch Vander Linde

    7 years ago

    No Tatis Jr? No deal.

    1
    Reply
    • Houston We Have A Solution

      7 years ago

      The Padres have the best farm system in the league and you’re gonna hold out for Tatis Jr? LOL Mets gonna Met themselves I guess.

      Tatis Jr, Paddack, Urias, Baez, Patino are practically untouchable. because Padres do’;t have alternatives.

      That still leaves elite prospects like Mejia, Gore, and Morejon, great prospects like Allen Naylor, Quantril. Plus a plethora of other great young assets.

      The Mets are not a team that needs 1 or 2 elite prospects away from pushing for contention. They have so many holes to fill you might as well call them the New York Swiss Cheese.
      They have holes at 3B, SS, maybe 2B, C, RF, bullpen, and SP aside from Syndergaard and Degrom.

      A deal consisting of
      1 of Mejia or Gore
      1 of Morejon or Allen
      Manuel Margot or Franchy Cordero
      Gabriel Arias
      Austin Allen

      is a fair deal for Syndergaard.

      2
      Reply
      • hojostache

        7 years ago

        The Mets aren’t look for fair. Also, the mets want back a MLB ready player to compete in ’19 AND prospects. They aren’t moving Syn for less than a haul and sending 5-6 non-elite prospects won’t get that done.

        Reply
        • Houston We Have A Solution

          7 years ago

          Mejia and Gore are both top 30 prospects in all of baseball. Mejia is MLB ready.
          Allen (half year away from mlb ready) and Morejon are both top 90 prospects in all of baseball.

          Arias and Allen (who is 1 year away from mlb ready) rank top 20 in the padres farm, which would be higher in other farms.

          Margot or Cordero are both MLB ready CF with high upside.

          You played yourself when you called Mejia and Gore non elite.

          Reply
        • Priggs89

          7 years ago

          Mejia isn’t an elite prospect if he can’t stick behind the plate (the most likely outcome).

          That being said, it’s not a bad deal by any means.

          Reply
  26. Ski to Coors

    7 years ago

    Dear Jeff Bridich,

    A couple offers you should make…

    Ian Desmond, Chad Bettis, Tom Murphy, Ryan Castellani, Ryan Vilade for Robinson Cano, Edwin Diaz

    Tyler Anderson, Brendan Rodgers, Peter Lambert, Sam Hilliard for Noah Syndergaard

    Reply
    • BobbyJohn

      7 years ago

      If they trade Rodgers, it needs to be to Miami in order to get Realmuto. He’s the guy who needs to be packaged with Desmond to help move that salary and free it up to extend Arenado.

      There’s enough pitching on the Rockies right now. Getting a real everyday catcher and shedding Desmond’s salary (and playing time) needs to be the priority.

      Reply
  27. Bruin1012

    7 years ago

    I think the Padres should let some of their guys graduate to the big leagues and see what you have before talking about bringing in hired gun like Thor.

    The Padres farm is loaded very similar to how Houston’s was a few years back. Let them start to play together at the big league level and see what you have. Then when the team has improved and is a threat in the NL West then go out and trade for a stud but only after the Pads start to compete. I think this talk of trading for a TOR arm is premature for this team.

    2
    Reply
    • Wolverines2

      7 years ago

      100% agree and have been saying the same thing on any post related to this topic for months.

      Reply
  28. Bjoe

    7 years ago

    The Yankees don’t need Diaz.

    Reply
  29. strostro

    7 years ago

    How about Bauer to the Phillies?
    Phillies acquire Bauer
    Indians Receive: RHP Adonis Medina, OF Adam Haseley, LHP Ranger Suarez, SS Arquimedes Gamboa, and OF Nick Williams

    Reply
    • hockeyjohn

      7 years ago

      Again do people read up on the other team’s needs before making a trade offer here. Cleveland needs MLB ready players particularly outfielders and bullpen. This trade offer shows no bullpen help, an average at best outfielder, and only one top 100 prospect in the back half. This is a quantity not quality offer and not one that I think the Indians would even consider. There will be better offers than this one. If their isn’t, just keep the pitching.

      1
      Reply
    • iverbure

      7 years ago

      Breaking news: Bauer on hotshove just said the Indians would be better off trading him next season because his surplus value this year is too high. This guy gets it. He is at the cutting edge of science of pitching. Go out of your way and watch his appearance today on hotstove. Talked about getting MRIs yearly, his work at drive line among other things.

      Reply
  30. bleacherbum

    7 years ago

    Ex- GM Dan O’Dowd proposed a Syndergaard to San Diego trade last night on MLB now.

    It was:

    SP Noah Syndergaard, C Travis D’Arnaud to the Padres for SP Joey Lucchesi, C Austin Hedges and SP Chris Paddack.

    I think that deal is thoughtful, creative and most importantly makes sense for both sides tremendously.

    The Padres get: Their Ace and a really good RH Veteran C who can platoon with Mejia, with Austin Allen in AAA as the extra layer of depth for SD.

    The Mets get: A left handed rookie starter who more than held his own in a full season starting in the MLB after only of been drafted in 15’ he could already be a fixture in most teams #4 spots in their rotation for the next 6 years at next to nothing in cost. Lucchesi also is a New York born and raised kid, it would work well for the player.

    Hedges is hands down one of the best defensive catchers in the game. He isn’t Yadi in his prime, but Hedges defense is game changing behind the plate. He would make that Mets rotation better from how he handles a pitching staff. He also is controllable for 4-5 more years at next to nothing.

    Finally, the best piece in the deal. SP Chris Paddack. San Diego’s return for Fernando Rodney 2 seasons ago. The guy is NASTY. He has been un-hittable since returning from successful TJS last year, dominating at AA, projected to start to year at AAA on the cusp of an early call-up.

    Trade benefits San Diego because (Tatis Jr, Gore, Urias, Mejia, Patino, Espinoza) all stay put.

    Losing Paddack is what stings, but to acquire Syndergaard and to sort the catching situation out all in one trade, it really helps shape the look of the 19’ San Diego ball club.

    1
    Reply
    • Danny B.

      7 years ago

      Throw in Luis Urias and the Padres have a deal. Makes no sense for the Mets to trade Syndergaard and have Hedges as the only bat coming back. Need more power.

      3
      Reply
      • bleacherbum

        7 years ago

        Get power in another deal. Lucchesi and Paddack become rotation fixtures for NYM for the next half a decade, & Hedges ices the deal with his elite defense and cheap control.

        DeGrom
        Wheeler
        Matz
        Lucchesi
        Vargas/Paddack

        Sign Ervin Santana or Trevor Cahill for more depth.

        C- Hedges/Plawecki, 1B- Alonso/Smith , 2B- McNeil, SS Rosario, 3B- Frazier, LF- Conforto/Cespedes, CF- Nimmo?/ Lagares RF- Bruce.

        Add a couple bullpen pieces, Maybe Yates can some how get inter-twined in a Syndergaard blockbuster as well, then if the Cano deal goes through then Edwin Diaz gets attached possibly.

        With the above rotation plus Lugo, Gsellman, Ramos plus the possible additions of Yates, Diaz, etc. The Mets aren’t that far off.

        Reply
  31. silverbackjack

    7 years ago

    giving guys massive contracts in their 30s always works out so well.

    3
    Reply
  32. Frisco500

    7 years ago

    Grown men referring to another grown man as Thor. What has he done to earn this nickname? Other than grow his hair out… Haha You guys are straight up geeks

    2
    Reply
  33. fitsiqis65

    7 years ago

    yanks should not take Cano unless mariners take Els and throw enough coin to reduce total liability of Cano to 50 mil max. otherwise walk away, i mean run away. I understand that mariners would be nuts to do this.

    Although i assume as a lefty 1b and eventual DH he will outperform most of cash’s replacement parts like gardy, neil walker types

    1
    Reply
  34. brandons-3

    7 years ago

    Like Sherman said, this offseason’s Mariners are similar to the 2014 off-season Braves. A middling team, with a good core, but not a complete team and little in the way of money and prospects to supplement it with outside of trying to hit on a lot of MiLB contract players. Fortunately, the cupboard isn’t completely bare as there are pieces to jumpstart a rebuild/reset if they correctly choose to go all in with it. My biggest gripe with the Kimbrel deal as a Braves fan was including Upton’s contract. I get not wanting to spend the money on a losing club, but when I saw what San Diego got for Kimbrel and especially what New York got for Miller and Chapman, I felt they didn’t get enough value for their blue chip. Diaz will bring back a big haul the Mariners need. I say no to trying to attach Cano.

    1
    Reply
    • hockeyjohn

      7 years ago

      I agree with you. Diaz is an asset that should bring back a nice package.

      Reply
  35. its_happening

    7 years ago

    Won’t take much for the Cardinals to compete for the NL Central division title. They need a closer. Jordan Hicks? Closer stuff, but not yet a closer.

    Call Seattle.

    Or stand pat, and prepare to deal guys at the deadline for a very soft rebuild. There’s no need. The parts are there for St. Louis.

    Reply
  36. jvent

    7 years ago

    How about Syndergaard,Dunn and Frazier to Milwaukee for Corey Ray,Keston Hiura and Knebel, that’ll give the Mets their 2b,cf (with speed finally) and a closer. Move McNeil to 3b. Trade Bruce to the Giants for Melancon. Sign Corbin or Keuchel Sign Ramos C
    Lineup: Ray,Hiura,Conforto,Alonso,Ramos,McNeil,Nimmo and Rosario
    Maybe not too much power but a lot of speed in Ray,Hiura,Nimmo and some in Rosario and McNeil
    Rotation: deGrom,Corbin or Keuchel,Wheeler,Matz and Lugo ?

    Reply
  37. Erie4312

    7 years ago

    Trade Camargo, Riley, Pache, Wright, Allard for Haniger and Diaz
    Camargo is proven MLB player with 20 HRs and 80 RBIs while missing a month, cheap long deal, good D
    M’s get 3b,SS,CF, possible TOR guy, and another possible SP of future for them to set their eyes on 2020 with some more trades
    Braves then sign Arenado next offseason and a good 8th inning arm
    Braves hold on to most of their pitching prospects for 2019 roatation
    ATL starting lineup 2020
    1. Inciarte (assuming rebound season)
    2. Acuna
    3. Freeman
    4. Arenado
    5. Haniger
    6. Albies
    7. Swanson
    8. Contrares?
    Unstoppable 2-5 are all posible top 15 in MLB at 2020
    Let prospects develop and see who is best for rotation

    8th inning arm (referenced above)
    Diaz
    for late innings

    Reply
    • Backatitagain

      7 years ago

      According to Fangraphs the value of Braves prospects are: Pache $53MM, Riley $43MM, Wright $42MM, Allard $16MM for a total of $154MM. Based on their performance to date Camargo $52MM raising the Braves offering to $206MM. Haniger at 4 WAR for four years is $100MM and Diaz at 1.4 WAR for four years is $41.6MM. Thus, using Fg numbers the Braves would throw away $65MM with your offering. Ian Anderson for Diaz is an even swap. Pache 53, Soroka 43 plus Darren O’Day 6 would be an even swap. Cano is valued at $-40 to-60MM, so if he was included, the Braves would need to get Marco Gonzales in the deal as well.

      Reply
  38. Jsin

    7 years ago

    No need for the Mets to trade Thor. He’s 26 and is really good. Mets owners need to spend money on free agents not trade young controllable talent. Payroll is like $92 million going into free agency season. Sign 2 or 3 impact free agents and get the team moving in the right direction.

    Reply
    • iverbure

      7 years ago

      Signing free agents is a good way to win. Bloat the payroll so high with god awful deals so they have no choice but to eventually tank and get some cheap superstars in the draft.

      Reply
  39. Jmrinaz

    7 years ago

    New Cardinals infield: 1B) Paul Goldschmidt 2B) Matt Carpenter SS) Paul Dejong 3B) Mike Moustakas. Yario Munoz and Patrick Wisdom on back up. Thoughts?.. Comments?..

    Reply

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