As the Mariners’ “reimagining” of their Major League roster continues, general manager Jerry Dipoto is “actively “making an effort to trade infielder Robinson Cano, reports Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic (subscription required).
The challenges in moving Cano are obvious. Though the eight-time All-Star remained productive when on the field in 2018, he turned 36 in October, missed 80 games this past season due to a PED suspension and is owed a hefty $120MM over the final five seasons of a 10-year, $240MM contract (signed under former Mariners general manager Jack Zduriencik). Cano also has the ability to veto a trade to any team, which only further muddies an already unenviable situation for Dipoto & Co.
Warts aside, Cano hit .303/.374/.471 with 10 homers and 22 doubles through 348 plate appearances when he wasn’t suspended in 2018 — including a .317/.363/.497 line upon returning from that 80-game ban. Both OPS+ and wRC+ pegged his overall offensive contribution at 36 percent better than that of a league-average hitter (after being weighted for league and his hitter-friendly home park). Defensive Runs Saved and Ultimate Zone Rating each indicated that Cano was an above-average defender at second base in 561 innings there, and he even dabbled at the infield corners a bit in ’18.
It’s more difficult to determine where Cano could realistically be traded, however. Rosenthal adds that the infielder would likely be amenable to a return to New York City, and the report even indicates that the M’s have contacted both the Yankees and the Mets about potential deals. However, the Mariners were understandably hesitant about taking on Jacoby Ellsbury’s contract and including “significant” cash to help pay down Cano’s deal, according to Rosenthal. The Mets, meanwhile, already possess some younger intriguing options on the right side of the infield and may not want to allocate substantial resources to a 36-year-old who is signed through age 40 — even one who remains a productive hitter. The Mets have a few onerous contracts themselves, but the largest among them, Yoenis Cespedes, has his own no-trade clause.
At this point, Cano figures to be one of the many remaining pieces the Mariners will look to move this offseason. Right-hander Mike Leake and shortstop Jean Segura both surfaced in reports connecting the Mariners to the Padres last week, and Dee Gordon has been an oft-cited potential trade piece as Seattle looks to pare down a bloated payroll. Arbitration-eligible reliever Alex Colome, with a fairly large $7.3MM projected salary (via MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz), also seems like a strong candidate to be dealt.
Trades of Mike Zunino and James Paxton have already shaved more than $12MM off the payroll (per Swartz’s projections) while also netting the Mariners a potential everyday option in center field (Mallex Smith) and their top new organizational prospect (Justus Sheffield). A deal involving Cano likely wouldn’t net that same type of immediate help to the MLB roster, unless it came in the form of an undesirable contract from another club, but would at least create some further payroll flexibility — some of which could be reinvested in the 2019 product.
Active as the Mariners have been to date, both of their major trades and even the rumored talks surrounding them have focused on bringing back some form of MLB talent. While the club may be “taking a step back” in 2019, it doesn’t appear there’ll be a full-fledged dismantling of the roster. Specifically, players like Mitch Haniger, Edwin Diaz, Marco Gonzales and Smith seem unlikely to be sent out, given their pre-arbitration status and four-plus years of remaining team control.
Giancarlo Stanton trade for Robinson Cano
Why
Deal !!
Done. Where do I sign?
This is an atrocious idea.
Robinson Cano for Giancarlo Stanton makes more sense than Cano for Jacoby Ellsbury.
Although neither is likely.
Ellsbury would make a lot of sense for the M’s as his deal is 63M over 3yrs while Cano is 120M/5yr. It would however take the inclusion of some cash to make it worthwhile for the yanks.
100,000 rupees might be better than 1000 dollars, but it’s not more valuable if I have no chance to use the rupees.
Cano is more expensive, sure. But if I can’t play Ellsbury, but I can play Cano, which would I rather have?
Elsbury has 2 years at 47 million. Awful deal for Yanks and never happening.
If you have a golden hair brush worth $1000– but no hair– do you sell the brush for $500 or keep it on principle that it’s worth more?
Ellsbury is worthless, but the Mariner’s aren’t contending the next 2-3 years so better to save what money you can.
Ellsbury is 48 over 2 with buyout of 2021 included
Your analogy is bad because its the Yankees that have a golden hair brush but no hair to use it on.
No, it’s the Mariners who have the golden brush (Cano) and no hair (chances of contending).
The Yankees on the other hand, have the $500 (Ellsbury) they are willing to spend on a $1000 item.
Do try and keep up.
Why bailout the M’s? Just eat JE contract and stop handing out $ to garbage.
Neither the Yankees and the Mariners have use for Ellsbury. He hasn’t played since 2017, he’s owed a lot of money to not play, and Cano can at least play.
If I offered you a burned out headlight for a ’95 Geo Metro, would you get make that deal?
If it saves me enough money, yes.
Cano can still play. He will likely still be usable in 2021, even if he’s DHing and occasionally filling in at 2B or 1B. Though he’s owed more, he offers more and there’s value in each win he helps Seattle achieve, even in rebuilding years.
Except Jacoby Ellsbury’s contract is completely underwater. Robinson Cano’s contract is not.
If Cano is $1000, then Ellsbury is 1000 Prussian Francs, or Italian Lira, or some other currency that no longer exists and has no value.
This is my point. An expensive contract for a usable player is better than a slightly less expensive contract for an unusable one.
You are delusional. Let me make this simple for you.
Ellsbury is owed 45 million
Cano is owed 120 million.
If Cano was a free agent today do you think the Yankees would give him 5 years/75 million?
I hope hope your answer would be no, that’s insane given his age and PED suspension.
Yet that’s exactly what you are suggesting is a good move for them, for some reason.
Plus Cano can teach young players. His new seminar “Cheating, Loafing and Body Breaking Down”is award-winning. I especially like the intro video with Jay Z singing.
No, I don’t think anyone is suggesting that. They are suggesting if the Mariner’s eat some money AND take Ellsbury, it would be a good deal– which it might be. Might.
As for “why would the Mariners want Ellsbury?”
First I will disagree that Jacoby Ellsbury is useless. If healthy he’ll probably hit .260 give you some decent CF defense, and swipe a 10-15 bases. That’s got some value, just not to the tune of $21M.
That said, the Mariners are in rebuild mode, clearly though, so it really doesn’t matter what Ellsbury OR Cano have to offer them on the field.
Their goal is to cut payroll.
So let’s do some math: if they trade Cano and send 4M/yr to the receiving team, they’re paying $20M total for him, and if they take the entirety of Ellsbury’s 45M it means they’ve cut 55M in payroll, good for more than 10M/yr.
Now, we can argue whether they can get a better deal elsewhere to cut even more, but if I’m the Mariners I do whatever I can to reduce that $120m.
Cheating is fair, but where do you get Body Breaking Down? Cano seems to have been remarkably durable for a decade.
Why would the Yankees want to trade Stanton? His stats were great in a down year.
I don’t understand this either…people need to chill out on Stanton and stop acting like he didn’t have a good first season in NY.
I bet 2019 is a big one for him.
Because they’re greedy brats.
to make room for Harper… duh
It doesn’t make room for Harper, it replaces Stanton’s output with almost the same numbers for an extra $14 mil per year or more in tax dollars.
This
dobsonet. A down year? HUH? Stanton had his career average season in 2018. Even a little better in producing aspects given his run producing abilities or lack therof with that type of power.. His 2017 is the outlier.
That’s one of the dumbest trade proposals I have ever seen. That would be a steal for Seattle. If you are a Yankees fan I have to say that some of you guys are getting out of hand and taking your Stanton hate too far. If you think the Yankees are better off with Cano then Stanton you know nothing about baseball.
While some of my brother Yankee fans can be embarrassing sometimes, I don’t think this comes from a Yankees fan or at least isn’t serious.
Exactly. Can’t generalize an entire fan base of millions based on the actions of a few. Otherwise dodger fans would be publically shamed for all eternity.
I do get the idea if spelled out a bit better, while dumb. I interpreted the suggestion as trading Stanton to make room both financially and positionally for Harper while placing a inexperienced but offensively more sure thing in Cano at 1B while Voit can start against lefties if you don’t like the matchup.
From a conceptual standpoint it does make some sense. But I’m not sure that Harper/Cano is all that much better than Stanton/Voit at this point in their careers. Both Harper and Stanton have won MVPs and talent-wise is a fairly even trade-off. It depends if you value the much more sure thing in Cano, or the extra $35 million in additional salary they’d take on for really not upgrading all that much (theoretically). Now I could look back on this comment in 2 years and say wow that Harper or Stanton deal didn’t work out, but I’d rather make the mistake on a $25 mil AAV contract than a $35+ mil AAV contract AND a $24 mil AAV contract.
However, one positive I could see is that with the Torreyes release, Cano could offer some protection at 2B should Torres suffer a sophomore slump as he’s a natural 2B. So there is that. Also it would swap RH’s for LH’s, which offers some more lineup variance and flexibility. Still wouldn’t recommend it though.
Come on really? Never going to happen
Yeah Stanton will definitly wave that no trade clause for that.
mariners are cursed
once it had hired dip dip.
More like Bavasi and Jack Z crippled us
With Jay Z humming in the background.
Stupid not cursed.
Cursed—or they have Jerry Dipoto. What is he doing?
Trying to ditch bloated contracts made by his predecessor. Why is that a bad idea?
I doubt he’ll find a taker for Cano. But if he can, and it makes sense for the M’s, he should do so.
It makes sense do ditch these older guys. The Mariners missed the window to win, however small it was actually open. Paxton was the best chip for his return. Now they need to dump bad contacts. They played well last year but clearly weren’t a good enough team to make the playoffs. They’re only set to get worse with a veteran core most of which are past their prime. Makes sense to free up money and try to gain prospects.
Phillies will find a way to show interest lol
lol
Hi Eileen
Go back to your other name
lol
lol
lol
I’ll the lol club.
Rotflmfao
Spending stupid money.
lol
Back to the Yankees makes the most sense. Can be a 1B/2B/DH option.
Not. Gonna. Happen.
Didn’t the Yankees disrespect him when they only offered him $180+ million when he was a free agent?
“disrespect” look how that contract worked out, it’s called being smart..
Cano has been perfectly successful over his contract lol
lol
It wasn’t this part of the contract that anyone was particularly worried about. It’s the next 5 years and his age 36 to 41 seasons that will turn into a disaster.
lol
It makes the most sense, but still doesn’t make a ton of sense. Stanton, Andujar, Sanchez, they are right back to where they were 3-4 years ago with too many DH types– they don’t need another.
As a fan, I’d welcome him back if the M’s paid a chunk of his salary AND took Ellsbury back, but that would likely be tough for them to agree to AND it would take Ellsbury agreeing to go to Seattle (why would he?).
That said, the Yankees are finally getting younger, the last thing they need is another 35+ overpaid steroid user.
Good luck moving Cano. He has been productive but with 5 years remaining and already he is 36 that is a tough mountain to climb.
Ellsbury’s salary is a good start. I can’t imagine any team can value cano higher than 60MM for the next 5 years. He should be worth more than that initially but you have to imagine by the time he’s 40 years old you’d want to be at a number where you feel like you could cut bait. He’s owed 120 so I’m thinking you have to slice that number in half to make any sense and that’s not giving up a single player of consequence to do so.
Very well reasoned. Plus, if Seattle’s plan is to compete in 2-3 years that’s when Ellsbury’s contract is done and that’s have payroll flexibility at that time.
Robinson Cano has posted 20.7 fWAR, valued at $163.7 million, in the first five years of his 10-year, $240 million contract with Seattle (the outlay was reduced to about $228 million with his 2018 suspension).
Steamer projects Cano to again earn his $24 million annual salary with a 2019 WAR of 3.0. The remaining contract is OK if Cano ages like a David Ortiz or an Edgar Martinez.
no one would pay Cano based on $8M per point of WAR. Maybe $4-5M per point. 5/75M, which is what a Cano/Ellsbury trade would be, is a terrible deal for NYY. Imagine if he was a free agent. Would anyone pay him 5/75M? Bet he wouldn’t get more than a one year deal with an option.
Cano would absolutely get more than a 1 year with an option. He’d probably get 3 years. Which is what I think Cano still has, production wise. The only difference in the 5/75 valuation you posted is that Cano’s still likely to be good enough to bring back surplus value in the first two or three years. Ellsbury isn’t. He’s awful.
He won’t.
Greg- while I can see that it’s a reach to suggest that Cano could get 5 yrs at 75m consider this: Nelson Cruz who was 34 or 35 at the time was signed to a $57m over 4 yr contract to DH the season following his 2013 50g PED suspension. Personally I could see the Ms FO moving Cano if they take on about 1/3 to 1/2 of his contract. Cano is still a very productive bat- I would not be surprised if Cano made the AS team over the next couple years. You’re talking about one of the greatest 2B of our generation
rays are interested very much!
Ms pick up A LOT, like a lot, of salary and Mets give them Alonso. Alonso is going to be a dh, can’t field, so might as well trade him while u can, and cano plays first for a couple years and then becomes a bat off the bench toward end of contract.
I can’t even call you out because this is just too obvious…..
This proposal tanked
M’s: Ok, but we’re not going to give up Cano that easily…We’d like to take your top prospect Alonso in return AND we’re willing to pick up a tremendous amount of the Cano salary to compensate…
Mets: Sounds awful, but I’ll bite. How much money are we talking here?
M’s: A LOT.
Mets: …I think we’re done here…
Cano would waive his NTC to return but Ellsbury is a maybe on his to Seattle at best. Arizona is the only likely place Ellsbury would waive for since that is where he owns a home and lives during the off-season.
I bet he would return to the Oregon-Washington area, it’s where he grew up and I read that he grew up a Mariners fan. Trade makes sense for the Yanks if he goes back to Seattle and Cano would see his numbers rise again in Yankee Stadium plus he can play 2B and 1B for them.
Trade doesn’t make sense for the Yankees. Yes, if Ellsbury was involved it would be a near payroll wash this year and next year (for tax liability purposes), but then the Yanks would have $24 mil per year hitting their tax line for the last three years right when their Arbitration dollars will start going much higher. It would only make sense if the Mariners eat some of that money too but then that doesn’t work at all for the Mariners.
Returning to where he grew up might’ve made sense when he was signing a FA deal a few years back.
His family is in Arizona now. Why would he do any favors for the Yanks to go play somewhere that won’t be competing until his contract is up? Just so he could drive past his old high school on off days? The junior high/elementary schools that were most impressionable upon him is in Arizona.
Additionally, his “tribe” as he refers to them are ALSO in Arizona.
The “ties to Pacific Northwest” narrative is outdated and just a remnant of his free agency period. It doesn’t play anymore.
Maybe he would actually like a chance to play, which isn’t going to happen with the Yankees? Maybe if he plays he can rebuild some value so he’s not out of baseball in two years?
Yeah but he is from the Pacific Northwest as in raised there I believe
Jacoby Ellsbury was raised on the high desert in Madras, Oregon, which has minimal ties to Seattle.
On the other hand, James Paxton may return home to Seattle in two years. 😉
Polar Girl…I love you!
Seattle to Arizona would be good deal for Ellsbury since Mairners ST complex in Arizona so closer for family during spring training.. West Coast boy so would be closer to family, so why wouldn’t he not accept trade to Seattle?? As Flight o Arizona isn’t that long flight.
Mariners need to unload Seager (over paid), Felix (Pay most of contract just to trade him), Cano (mariners did better when he got suspend for PEDS)
Mariners started to tank long before Cano came back.
Hmm, if he would accept it, a trade to Toronto for Tulowitzki, Morales, Russell Martin and a B level and prospect could be interesting.
Why would the Mariners trade one bad contract for three of them?
Because the one bad contract still has 6 years left on it
*5, plus the propsect
Why would the mariners trade one bad for 3? Because that scenario would save them 50 million dollars and acquire some sort of prospect. I think if you dropped morales from the deal that deal may make some sense for Seattle anyway. Tulo is owed 38 and Martin is owed 20. That’d take out half of cano’s Contract right there. I’d rather take tulo and Martin and hope one of the two can rebuild their value to a point and potentially save more money/get another prospect back. Better than simply eating the cash if they’re ready to dump cano
Exactly! The reason for the trade is to shed salary
Why on earth would the jays want Cano? When you’re the jays and not competing for a playoff spot you should never trade for a future albatross contract. Martin and Morales are both gone after this year.
Cano for Chris Davis.
That’s just cruel….
If I were the M’s I would actually do that trade
I’m glad you’re not in charge, then.
Then you’re a fool
Relax relax it was sarcasm
Now I know why the people here are so into analytics they are truly the geek squad
No personality and no sense of humor
Very sad
Worst contracts in baseball: Chris Davis, Zack Greinke, Homer Bailey, all immovable except maybe Greinke if they eat a lot of money.
Yeah Greinke doesn’t belong here… he’s $95.5 for 3 remaining. He has almost 9 fwar over the last 2 years. With the dearth of SP they could get a quality return eating a little money. This looks like a Yankees fan who thinks Greinke is going to be free.
No way Greinke has shown he’s still a top of the rotation arm. If they eat 30 million they’d still get a good return. Even if they eat no money they could probably send him to a team for a nothing prospect.
Look at Greinke’s numbers the last 2 years. Not an ace but still pretty damn good, and maybe better than anyone on the free agent market. But yeah I agree, would take about $20 million eaten in my opinion.
Albert Pujols.
Chris Davis has produced a negative 0.2 fWAR, valued at a negative $1.3 million, in the first three years of his seven-year, $161 million contract with Baltimore. Steamer projects a 2019 WAR of a negative 0.1 in 138 games.
Robinson Cano has posted 20.7 fWAR, valued at $163.7 million, in the first five years of his 10-year, $240 million contract with Seattle (the outlay was reduced to about $228 million with his 2018 suspension).
Steamer projects Cano to again earn his $24 million annual salary with a 2019 WAR of 3.0. The remaining contract is OK if Cano ages like a David Ortiz or an Edgar Martinez.
White Sox. Move Abreu to DH. M’s eat a boatload of $$$, obviously.
Either that or start transitioning Moncada to third to make room for Madrigal. And when Madrigal is ready, Cano can slide over to first.
1-The White Sox already have enough DH candidates with a likely platoon of Daniel Palka and Matt Davidson in 2019. Eloy Jimenez will take Palka’s place in LF while Jose Abreu will remain at 1B if he’s not traded.
2-Yoan Moncada will be transitioned to 3B regardless to make room for Nick Madrigal who could be ready for his debut on the South Side in 2020.
3-Yolmer Sanchez can move to 2B and keep the position warm for Madrigal in the mean time.
The White Sox don’t need another PED abuser on their young team. They already have Wellington Castillo penciled in as the regular catcher after his suspension last season. If the team really desires a helpful veteran presence they should just extend a much younger Abreu who would surely be amenable to a significantly cheaper contract than what Robinson Cano is already owed over the next 5 seasons.
If the White Sox really want to add an impacting veteran presence who also supplies a much needed high OBP power bat from the left side they should throw dollars at 26-year old Bryce Harper and not 36-year old Cano. Finally, there is little chance that Cano would actually waive his no-trade clause to play for a White Sox team that is still in the final stages of their rebuild. A 10-year deal for Harper would make more financial success and he would still be Cano’s present age at its conclusion.
lol please enlighten us on how “ped abusers” destroy clubhouses.
Yeah, I still don’t think the White Sox are even a plausible destination for Harper, even if they offer the most money. He’s just not going to a franchise like that. White Sox fans want to feel important enough to run with the Cubs and the big dogs, but they’re kind of the little brother. They could get Harper if they offered way more than everyone else, but not for near the same. Machado maybe, as his market won’t be as strong as he thinks, but I’d be shocked if Harper even considered the White Sox at around the same money as whichever of the Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies, Cubs, Nationals, Dodgers, Astros, and Giants became involved.
Same situation as the M’s were in when they signed Cano to this contract. Except the M’s have consistently been a higher payroll team and were already a good team then.
When the Mariners signed Cano, they were definitely not a good team.
Ah you are right… they were bad the year before and good the year of the signing.
Of the teams you mentioned only the Phillies and White Sox can enter an ultimate bidding war for Bryce Harper services. If it came down to those two clubs I can see Harper playing in Chicago even if it is on the South Side of town.
The White Sox are about a season behind the Phillies in their rebuild. They also play in a much easier division when considering the long term which Harper ought to be considering. The NL East has a young Braves team that not only won the division in 2018 but still possesses one of MLB’s best farm systems. The Nationals remain a strong contender even if Harper departs. They still possess a solid veteran nucleus, feature some exceptional young talent in Trea Turner, Juan Soto and Victor Robles and also have decent talent in the minors. Harper is plenty familiar with the Phillies and perhaps might rather not have to compete against the only MLB organization he has known to this point if the money is equal or better with the White Sox. Harper has also shown a public affinity for the city of Chicago as well as New York but I have yet to here anything endearing from him regarding the “City of Brotherly Love”. lol
1) The White Sox DH candidates are bad. The only reason they are DH candidates is because they are on the White Sox. Adding Cano at first and moving Abreu to DH would be a substantial upgrade.
2) Is that not exactly what I just said? They might as well start transitioning him over now if that’s their plan going forward.
3) Yolmer Sanchez can move to a utility role and still get almost every day at-bats, which is exactly where he should be.
4) I don’t care about him – or anyone – being a PED user. If you think PEDs have left the game, I think you’re pretty naive. Either way, the guy is another professional hitter (Abreu being the only current one on the roster) that the young guys coming up can learn a LOT from on a daily basis.
5) I said the Ms would have to eat a boatload of the contract, so I’m not sure the difference between what they’d pay him and what they’d pay Abreu would be that significant. For that matter, they could still re-up Abreu and keep him as a DH.
6) I agree Harper would be a great addition (as I’ve said many times). The problem is that he has to agree as well.
1) The White Sox 2019 DH platoon tandem are probably good enough to produce 40 HR’s between them. They are also a heck of a lot cheaper than either Cano or Abreu. If the latter is signed to an extension he could easily become a cheaper DH candidate after spending another couple of years at 1B. The White Sox will then have a better idea about their top 1B prospect in Gavin Sheets as well as injured 3B Jake Burger who probably stands a better chance defensively at the other corner position. Cano would not be the future White Sox second baseman beyond 2019 which leads to…
2) Yoan Moncada. He likely opens the 2019 season for the White Sox at 3B after getting some reps in winter ball and throughout spring training. It’s not as if Moncada lacks in any professional experience at the hot corner. After all, he did make his MLB debut there with the Red Sox in September of 2016.
3) Yolmer Sanchez will become the ideal White Sox utility infielder come 2020 once Nick Madrigal debuts. He will keep 2B warm for the White Sox top pick from last June.
4) Of course PED have not left MLB but anyone who gets caught now with the increase in testing must be a few gray cells short in the brain department. The White Sox don’t need that type of veteran mentoring any of their youngsters. Jose Abreu has been great in the role and I’d just assume the White Sox keep him on board rather than take on..
5) Cano’s dollars, even at a discount from the Mariners. There is still the minor matter of Cano waiving his no-trade rights which is a big deal and not likely to happen to a team like the White Sox.
6) Harper might agree to play in Chicago over Philadelphia if it came down to the ultimate bidding war which I have already gone into some detail with on this thread. There are only a handful of teams that can go above and beyond with the dollar amounts that his agent has already thrown out there. We will find out soon just how important money is in Harper’s final decision over other factors like team glamor, locale or even cuisine. lol
Cano for Longoria
HAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAH
The trade value is as a DH: the guy can rake, and he’s one of those hitters that can go another 5 years of high productivity at the plate (this assumes, of course, that his hitting wasn’t propped-up by PEDs). So which AL team is competitive and needs a DH bat?
None,
He makes too much.
The Mariners would have to pay at least 60 million to get it done.
No one dumb enough to do that.
Big assumption. I just keep hearing Michael Kay interviewing Mark Texiera immediately after the suspension. Texiera was not surprised by the suspension so unless your trading for him hoping he gets another suspension to avoid paying him, buyer beware.
Good luck with that, Mariners.
ANOTHER too long, too expensive contract trying to get moved. I don’t care what age harper and machado are, if someone signs them to 8 or 9 years, they are going to regret it.
Cano has provided surplus value on that contract so far.
And, yet, the Mariners would happily pay another team to get rid of him.
Apparently the Seattle Mariners have not been willing to pay another team to get rid of Robinson Cano.
I see what you are saying, but your argument is horrifically flawed. You can’t discount age at signing. If Harper or machado signs for 8-9 years (which I highly doubt either signs for so few years) they would be 34-35 at the conclusion of the contract. Cano is 36 with 5 to go!!!!! Neither contract will be an albatross in that amount of time. ARods first 10 year contract wasn’t an albatross to move, Giancarlo’s was moved…it just so happens they were signed by teams that couldn’t afford them. So if your argument is that small market teams with limited payroll shouldn’t dole out contracts that tie up 20+% of their spending capacity, then I agree. If you stand by signing a 26 year old to an 8-9 year deal is going to “regret” it, I would disagree. They aren’t pitchers, so the risk for career altering injury isn’t as high and they should remain productive into their mid 30s
Nah 8 or 9 years takes them to about 35. For superstar level talent, that’s when you can probably start to expect regression. It’s the rumoured deals over 10 years that are scary for them.
What are the chances Robinson Cano gets traded and wouldn’t it most likely be a salary dump?
What about a trade to the Red Sox? Hear by out. Sox have a lot of dead money in the contracts of both Pedroia and Rusney Castillo. Sox need to cut ties with Pedroia. Despite how Fox portrayed him in the playoffs, he is not a part of this team and would be cancerous next year if he were to return. Castillo has bounced back and AAA and has some value but there is not room for him on the roster. M’s trade Cano and his 12o mil to BoSox and they in return trade Pedroia and Castillo. Pedroia retires and Castillo is either Seattles replacement for Cruz or slots into a corner outfield slot. Smith, Castillo, and Haniger could be a productive outfield. Sox print money so they can afford Cano and have a need for a lefty and a 2B.
Why would Pedroia retire and give up $40 million?
He would retired for several reasons. 1. His knee is shot. 2. I doubt he would want to play in Seattle. 3. He could orchestrate a buy out from Seattle. I mean, there was a reason he was sent away for the entire season (he could have easily rehabbed in Boston)
I didn’t see this earlier but totally agree. However they get it done.
Also agree Pedie IS a cancer on this club. He was causing trouble with Farrell. Get rid of him.
If Pedroia didn’t want to play for Seattle, he’d just veto a trade with his 10/5 rights. His contract particulars on Cots shows he has limited no-trade, but he has over 12 years ML service for 1 team, so that clause got replaced with a full no-trade.
I guess you hate the Redsox. Paddy has given the Redsox many good n great yes. They would never think about forcing a trade or retirement to him. You must be an Evil Empire supporter, n just surprised your muscle team didn’t win the WS.
How does knowing Pedroia’s bad and probably done equate to hating the Red Sox? I’m a Cubs fan but if I were a Sox fan I could care less if Pedroia were gone.. it would make my team better. I would have no need to preserve relics of the past like Pedroia…
That just bones the Red Sox when they try to get from under the luxury tax. Castillo isn’t part of their tax number and if they did that deal they’d now owe cano 24MM AAV for the next 5 years. Not a match.
Please elaborate on how Pedroia would be a cancer if he returns next season.
Here’s why this doesn’t work. 1) Pedroia has 10 and 5 rights 2) Trading Castillo means the Red Sox have to start taking the luxury cap hit for his contract, unless they are able to trade the whole contract. 3) Pedroia doesn’t want to retire and won’t walk away from his money.
I understand that Cano wouldn’t get 5 years and 120 million on the open market, but he’s still a plus defender at 2B according to the metrics and was worth over 3 WAR in 80 games last year. Why is everyone in such a hurry to move him off second and/or get out from under his contract? He’s aging as well or better than any player that has signed this type of contract in history.
Because there are still 5 years left and things can change in a hurry.
He’s gonna be 40 at the end of the contract
He’s owed 120 mil coming off a PED suspension hes 36 and the mariners aren’t even close to winning. If you can’t understand why the mariners wouldn’t want to eject from the deal asap you don’t understand how teams value players, aging curves, how teams are built along with several other things in baseball.
I’m sure they’d like to get out from the contract if they had the option. But paying half of it like some posters are suggesting doesn’t make any sense. The guy has provided surplus value every season thus far and was actually better when he came back from his suspension than before.
I’ve seen posts all offseason about how he needs to be moved from second base in 2019 and that just isn’t based on facts.
He was cheating. Now he’ll be under a much closer eye. His better than average aging may reverse course rather quick.
For what it’s worth, without contributing defensive value, David Ortiz posted 16.0 fWAR, valued at $120.5 million, in his final five years culminating with his age 40 season:
https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=745&position=DH#value
Edgar Martinez posted 20.3 WAR in the five years culminating with his age 40 season before tanking in his age 41 season:
https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1086&position=3B/DH#value
We don’t know how Robinson Cano will age in the five years culminating with his age 40 season.
If/when cano isn’t a 2B those WAR figures aren’t going to be where they are now. Cano got his deal when this was the norm. You expected to overpay this guy on the backend of it. You can’t move him on the backend and expect it to be market value. Its not an albatross yet but it’s not hard to imagine where it’s heading.
Seattle signed Robinson Cano five years ago when $24 million was nearly the top annual salary.
In 2018, 16 players reportedly were paid a higher annual salary than Cano:
https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/rankings/
In only 80 games this year Cano posted a higher fWAR than eight of the 16 players with higher salaries.
With inflation, the back end of a contract that is not backloaded does not look all that bad.
I think the Mets have a unique opportunity here. Let’s try this trade scenario:
Mets get: Robinson Cano, Jean Segura, Edwin Diaz,
Mitch Haniger & $10 million.
Mariners get: Peter Alonso, Jay Bruce, Todd
Frazier, Juan Lagares, Wilmer
Flores and two mod-level prospects.
The salaries of Lagares & Frazier would come off their books at the end of the 2019 season, Bruce’s would come off after the 2020 season, they have the power to decide whether or not to tender Flores a contract, you a get one of the most exciting & fast rising prospects in all of MLB as well as add farm depth with another 2 prospects. As for the Mets, they can easily make Cano their full-time 1B, the $10 million they would receive from Seattle would be used to soften the hefty price tag of Cano’s contract in the back end. Segura would become their new 2B. The Mets then would have a competitive team with the additions of Cano, Haniger & Segura into their lineup. Diaz instantly becomes their closer for the present & future.
Bottomline here is this, even with the salaries going back to Seattle and giving the Mets another $10 million on top of that, the Mariners would still save $68 million from getting out from under Cano’s contract. They wouldn’t have the burden of having him not only on the roster but handcuffing their budget year after year. I want to honestly hear what Baseball fans think about this idea. I think it’s quite brilliant. I didn’t even mention the fact that while getting rid of these players from their roster, the players that the Mariners would be receiving in return would allow them to remain competitive and not a complete laughingstock.
Seattle comes out better trading Haniger, Segura, and Diaz separately and it’s not even close.
That’s a terrible, terrible proposal. I doubt the Mariners take that deal for Haniger alone lmao.
I didn’t think it was that terrible hit what if the Mariners kept Haniger and the Mets added Brandon Nimmo into the proposal???
That’s better but there’s a lot of lacklustre pieces going to Seattle, but I guess that should be expected in a Cano trade.
I notice you make a lot of proposals involving Nimmo. Are you down on him or something? He was pretty good last year and I’d be surprised if the Mets are keen to move him in a deal.
I’m not down on him at all, actually I’m quite high on him. The reason why I add him in proposals for good players is because I’m a true believer in that you have to give something good to get something good. That’s all. I’m just eager to see Brodie Van Wagenen get creative.
Ya that’s true, I like the core of Nimmo, Conforto, and McNeil in that lineup though. I’d try to make those three untouchable if I could.
I can really simplify this. Watch this:
Mets get: Cano, Segura & $20 million
Mariners get: Peter Alonso, Jay Bruce & Todd Frazier.
Similar principle here, Mets get rid of two contracts they don’t want, Mariners get rid of a massive contract they don’t want. Mets get a really good double play partner for Rosario and Seattle gets their 1B/DH of the future. Now is this a far offer???
Brandon Nimmo would become the only desirable piece in that package.
Yeah much better without digging in too much. I don’t the Mets trade Alonso though.
The Mets aren’t taking on that kind of cash and the M’s aren’t trading their 3 best young players without getting anything even remotely interesting in terms of prospects back. Salary relief…? Great. So they can go sign 2 new players to future albatross contracts? You want to build a solid roster, you need to start with good young players. Trading Haniger and Diaz for nothing is a bad idea.
This is by far one of the worst trade scenarios I have ever seen. It’s not even worth taking it apart. That is how bad it is.
This is so bad a trade scenario that I won’t even smh.
It looks like your asking for the Mariners 3 best players as throw-ins for taking Cano. It’s also basically all the assets the Mariners have left to sell to begin their rebuild with. Your trade saves them some money but puts them years back in competitiveness.
If you’re serious then you need to just quit posting. That is absurd. You want the best two players on the Mariners in return for salary relief and junk?
Alternatively, a poster at a Seattle forum suggested trading Robinson Cano and Marco Gonzales to the New York Mets for Michael Conforto and Noah Syndergaard.
Gotta love this time of year.;-)
Where do i start? You think you get 3 allstar players from Seattle we also give money just because you take on Cano?
My gosh what are you the love child of Bill Bavasi and Jack Z?
This is the most ridiculous trade offer i have seen.
Let me educate you. To get Sugar alone you will have to start with at a minimum 3 of your top 5 prospects. And your #1 will have to be in there. Now you want Mitch now the deal increase to 6 of you top 15 add in Jean and goes up to 8 of your top prospects and 2 to 3 lower guys.
My point is this. As much as i dislike Jerry Dipoto he isn’t going to trade you Diaz,Mitch,Diaz with money and Cano for the pile of crap your offering up.
Sorry this isnt a video game where you offer complete GARBAGE and force an override.
While the Mariners want to get rid of Cano’s contract. They are not going to sell off 3 Allstars for what equals less than pennies on the dollar.
In all seriousness, I like your approach but I think I might like this watered-down alternative a bit more.
Mets get: Robinson Cano, Mallex Smith, Alex Colome, Chasen Bradford, Marco Gonzalez and $0
Mariners get: Todd Frazier, Juan Lagares, Wilmer Flores, Gavin Cecchini, Chris Flexen, a league minimum earning SS or 2B (Cecchini) and another minor league piece or two.
This gives the M’s a DH to replace Cruz (Flores), a CF to replace Mallex (Lagares), a bat to spell Seager or Healy or Cano (Frazier), a lot of financial flexibility and a couple of arms.
If the Mets are considering dealing Nimmo to CLE, Mallex Smith is a great .300 hitting CF option and lefty bat. Colome could close or set up whoever closes. Marco Gonzalez could replace the likely-to-be-dealt Syndergaard.
The Mets don’t give up anything of value.
In all honesty, I wouldn’t mind this deal but the Mets would never do it. Any team willing to take Cano will only do it if Seattle pays some of his contract.
If they give up nothing of value how can the Mets land four years of Mallex Smith (who posted 3.4 fWAR this year), five years of Marco Gonzales (who posted 3.6 fWAR this year), and two years of 2017 AL saves leader Alex Colome?
The “reimagining” Seattle Mariners should be building around the combined nine years of team control of Smith and Gonzales (and the combined eight years of team control of Mitch Haniger, who posted 4.6 fWAR this year, and Edwin Diaz, who posted 3.5 fWAR this year).
That dreadful Mets package indeed represents nothing of value.
Red Sox!
Send Pedie packing!
yup! See my proposal above!
Great minds think alike.
Fowler 5/50mil and Cecil 2/15mil for Cano 5/120mil and 5mil cash.
Sea sheds 50mil, Stl has Cano for 5/50mil.
Fowlers could rebound off a horrible BAbip, Cecil won’t. Who shouldn’t?
That isn’t Fowler’s actual contract situation? But it’s an interesting idea anyway.
49.5mil, I rounded
Fowler is 3/$49.5M
I see, thank you
That is actually a pretty good start. Trader Jerry would probably also ask for a middling prospect or two that has no chance of seeing MLB. Very solid proposal.
If Cano were a Free Agent, I would probably give him 2 years and $35M and expect 5ish WAR, which would be a surplus. Not too interested in his age 38-40 seasons, but getting those 3 years at essentially $15M isn’t too bad. Not unlike the Carlos Beltran contract. Turning some expensive spare parts into a high-upside guy left-handed bat sounds good.
Cano could easily get 3/$60 on the open market. The concern are the last two years. I think if you pay his deal down $8M a year, you could move him and get a couple mid level guys back
Yes, the Mariners ARE cursed. We can call it the “The Curse of Howard Lincoln”.
They haven’t made the playoffs since he refused to allow Gillick to increase payroll in 2002 at the trade deadline.
Machado to Yanks 300-350/10 years
Andujar + Florial + 2 mid-level prospects for Kluber or Syndergaard (though the latter not likely)
Ellsbury + Abreu + Clint Frazier to Mariners for Cano and Seattle eats half of that contract
*Throw in Bird wherever
Until Didi returns:
3B Machado
SS Torres
2b Cano
1B Voit
When Didi returns, got infield set for next five years:
3B Machado
SS Didi
2B Torres
1B Cano
I believe the Yankees need to trade for another legit starter and avoid paying high $ for someone like Happ, Corbin, or Eovaldi. I believe now is the time that Cashman needs to roll the dice and deal prospects to win now. Ideally, it would be with a team in need of OFs so that we can position prospects like Florial and Frazier. Won’t be Syndergaard though. Mets just will not do it.
Doing so would enable them to sign Harper, who I think would be a much better fit in pinstripes than would Machado. Both would be fine, but Harper’s swing is perfect for Yankee stadium and he can play LF and 1B.
I don’t want to see the Yankees trade Andujar unless it is for an extremely good starting pitcher. In that instance, then of course Machado makes a lot more sense than Harper.
Of course then that would make 3 guys in the lineup who refuse to hustle to first base on a ground ball to third.
$24mm per year for the age 36-40 of a guy fresh off a PED bust? Where do I not sign up?
Ells is slated be on the bench for the next three seasons, making $21-22 a year. Better to get some value than virtually nothing
Cano has 3 years left after Ellsbury’s contract is done, so it doesn’t make sense. Give me a 26 year old Machado/Harper over an aging Cano.
Ellsbury only has 2 years left not 3.
That’s what he said.
I predicted that Seattle would wind up shopping this guy 4 or 5 years in to this ridiculous contract and of course now they are doing just that.
I also predicted that he’d get traded to the Red Sox when this occurred. We’ll see if I’m correct on that front. I hope I am because they would get to pay this guy’s absurd salary when he’s no longer productive (I believe he’s got two years of mid to high level production remaining).
Interesting that the Yankees discussed him with Dipoto. Not surprised that they asked SEA to take Ellsbury and that seems like a fair ask, but expecting SEA to pay down some of the remaining $ owed was a big reach by Cashman. Regardless, I’d take a pass and invest the $ elsewhere.
I don’t think asking for money + Ells is a big ask. Good luck finding anyone who wants Cano’s absurd contract– that deal would still save them a big chunk of payroll over the next 5 seasons. If Cashman is really offering that kind of deal, DiPoto would be well advised to take it.
This has always been the one player/contract I thought was impossible to move. If Dipoto can trade Cano without eating significant money they should start building a statue in his honor immediately.
The Mariners trying to move Cano is going to be as hard as The D-Backs trying to move Greinke. Though both are still productive players, both are on large contracts, and both are approaching 40 years old.
DBacks will have no trouble moving Greinke in this pitching market. They eat $20 million and they’ll get a quality return.
The question is not what the mariners will get for Cano but how much money the other team is willing to take on. There is not very many players that would make sense for a team to take on that bad of a commitment. That is one of the worse deals in baseball right now if not the worse. Only players it make sense for straight across would be Pujols or Davis. Even for elsbury the mariners would need to add more payroll to the yanks.
Cano is still a well-above-average contributor. The Davis, Pujols, and Ellsbury deals are SIGNIFICANTLY worse. I’d throw in Heyward and Darvish as well.
I forgot about Homer Bailey. Whoops
Homer Bailey only has one year remaining on his deal. It is NOT worse than Cano’s.
It was at the time he signed it. That is the point
Ellsbury has two years left. Even if he doesn’t play a game at all it’s significantly better than Cano’s
I think LA would consider him if Seattle ate a huge chunk of the remaining salary.
Yes, I agree throw in Matt Kemp.
Trading Kemp would make sense and then there’s no pressure on Cano if he regresses. He still would be an upgrade over Forsythe and Dozier.
I can’t see the Dodgers being interested in Cano, even if he was free.
Dodgers have to be interested. Have had a huge hole at second for years now.
Which at age 36, Cano does not really fill. He would be at best a temporary solution. Contracts for positions players that run into the player’s late-30s are written for the AL. They will always be a poor fit for the NL.
Makes sense for a team that had a 40 year old second baseman last year Chase Utley. Had him signed for another year lol but he retired. You are a poor fit.
I think the Mariners are stuck with Cano. He is owed a ton of money, and while his numbers were good this past season, I’m sure that PED suspension will be in everyone’s mind. Were his numbers inflated by PED use (most likely), what will he look like if he’s not on anything and what happens if he gets caught again? This reminds me of the Arod situation from a few years ago.
In addition to all that, the Mariners will either need to eat a large portion of that contract (at which point they might as well just keep him) or send useful players as part of the deal to get anything decent in return.
His numbers were better after he returned from the suspension, as the article points out. Also, shouldn’t every team that is overpaying a player be hoping for a PED suspension? Seattle used that bonus PED suspension cash to pick up Span and Colome for free last year.
But, how much will be off them, long term, impact him is the question that isn’t answerable
Always hilarious when people think taking PEDS improves your ability by like 50%. PEDs help you stay on the field more than anything. AAAA player taking the best damn PED isn’t going to make him a big league Allstar.
The incentive to take PEDS for a 4A player is through the roof. I’m surprised we don’t see more of it. Chris colabello is an example right off the top of my head. PEDS do more than keep you on the field. That’s for sure. Do they make you superhuman and turn colabello into Mike trout? No obviously not. But there’s far more to gain than injury prevention.
You believe Bonds 73 homers was mostly just him staying on the field?
The drop of someone in their mid to late 30s is usually significant as they don’t recover from injuries and years of wear and tear start to catch up to the human body. Arods age 33 season was the beginning of the decline (and he was most likely using something at this point). He started to have significant injuries that kept him out for large stretches of the season in the coming years and at 36/37 looked done. If he is clean, Canos numbers will most likely decline. Not to say he will become a 0.200 hitter but mid .200s doesn’t seems unreasonable with reduced power numbers.
Chris Davis trade for Robinson Cano
This is exactly what I was thinking. Exchange of albatross contracts. Cano is the superior performer but is older. The O’s might need to throw in a Trumbo and/or a Cashner to get this done, which they should be willing to do in a heartbeat.
Lol how do either of those players sweeten the deal? Davis was the worst player in MLB last year and Cano was worth 3.2 WAR in 80 games.
Why would Seattle want that Seattle contract?
Sorry meant Cashner contract
The same people that forget Cano has NTC are the same people that don’t understand how Stanton wasn’t worth more. Do people know what NTC are?
Only in the orioles dreams could we move Davis for cano. The mariners could sign mark reynolds in FA and get someone to take at least half of cano’s contract in a trade and be much better off. Cano is still a productive baseball player. He’s about to be an overpayed baseball player but he can still play.
Cano would veto that.
Yea I think you are right seamaholic. I cannot see Cano accepting a trade to Baltimore
If DiPoto moves that contract even eating half of it he should get a lifetime contract
I gave up calling out dummies here, I just don’t have the energy for all of them…..
I’m no TROLL…. I point out the obvious
Here’s a wild one:
Cano for Pujols straight up. Mariners save like 40mm and Angles get a functioning roster spot.
AP has a full NTC, so no way he gives up his cushy job with Trout. Also, there’s the 10 year services contract after AP retires. Does that revert to the M’s or stick with the Angels?
Could be one of those money management deals where both sides know Pujols is about to retire, and the M’s rather than the Angels can negotiate his buy out. Saves the M’s a ton of money, and it’s neutral or nearly so for the Angels.
Why would Pujols retire and lose that money?
Any trade in which Cano is moved, it’ll either be a bad contract for bad contract deal, or the Mariners pay Cano’s salary down to a more market-value rate.
One deal I could see happening:
Indians give up: Edwin Encarnacion, Jason Kipnis, Yan Gomes
Mariners give up: Robinson Cano, Alex Colome and $10mil
It would give the Indians a little bit of flexibility this year payroll wise, it would give them a second basemen, and a much needed reliever.
For the Mariners, all three of those guys can be cut loose after the 2019 season, so your payroll is high this next year, but drops way down next year.
That’s a good idea, but I doubt Cleveland would do it with Gomes included. Seattle would also have to kick in more coin.
The Indians are trying to shed salary. They aren’t or will never bring in Cano. Lol
They would be shedding salary. Their 2019 payroll would drop would fall a good amount. The problem is next off-season, they’d be in the same boat as this off-season and be trying to unload Cano’s contract.
Colome would help, but really I can’t see them moving Gomes without getting some young pre-arb pieces. Overall, Seattle would have to add in a lot cash to make this a thing. If they do that (and I doubt it), then this would be the reliable bat Cleveland is looking for.
Keep those 10 year contracts coming! They have such a great track record that all GMs should have at least one on their team.
Twins maybe to play first maybe a little at third
If Cano had less years left it would be the perfect way for marlins to dump chen and prado off their books. And add some power to the anemic team they have.
Yeah I’m sure Cano would for sure lift his NTC to go to Miami of all the teams…
Are the mariners stupid, why would the yankees trade a bad contract for a worse
Braves should make a package deal for Haniger, Diaz, & Cano. Not sure what we would have to give up but taking on Cano could lower the prospect cost.
The Mariners aren’t going to dilute the return on Haniger and Diaz by including Cano. I also can’t see them trading either Haniger or Diaz this offseason unless they are floored by an offer.
Teheran, Allred, McCreery, Ricardo Sanchez plus Darren ODay and Adam Duvall.
And where would the braves play cano? Right field?
2b, Albies to SS
A sh*tload. M’s aren’t trading their 2 best players for salary relief.
Cano to the Phillies….I hear they have money……
Jack Zduriencik, the gift that keeps giving all year long.
No kidding- In order to save his job he goes out signs Cano and Jerry is left cleaning up the mess. I have to laugh at all the Dipoto haters out there, don’t they remember how bad our last 3 GMs were? We haven’t had a decent GM since Gillick in 03’
Run away as fast as you can.
Just keep him and see how he plays the first half of 2019. If he has a hot start teams looking to make a run at the playoffs will take on more of his deal.
Please see the article Erik Goeddel. What Kenelfornia and Blue_painted_dreams say about Cano is sooooo funny. Bahaha
Matt Kemp for Cano. Starting point.
I don’t see what was so funny tbh. He’s a tremendous player, but was I supposed to say that a decline in a player that’s 36-41 isn’t inevitably foreseeable? Father Time though is undefeated and knowing a player is going to have to be moved down the defensive spectrum I assume is quite hilarious. That an NL team without a DH would be wise to pass on Cano is apparently revolutionary thinking. Dodgers taking on 5 years of cano on the backend of the contract without the experiencing the plus side of his contract, ahh So funny bahaha. You’re pushing like Cano is going to be an elite plus 2b for the next five years. So if it’s truly funny that I think the Dodgers having no interest in said player then oh well. If it’s funny that I think the excess difference in two contracts would be better used to address needs or be put towards a potential need in the org then ya got me. I’m sorry that I believe Kemp is a viable platoon guy without the need to tie themselves up or even a need to keep Kemp should he falter. Dodgers can definitely configure themselves to deepen their lineup without even considering Cano.
What was truly somewhat eye raising was trying to convince that taking steroids and cycling off makes you a significantly better hitter the next year. When asked for proof you threw out 4 random examples and try to prove a correlation when in fact there was none. You in fact tried to prove it was the norm/rule instead of coincidence or some underlying factor, as them having youth or maybe just being good hitters. In fact none of the examples provided were as advanced in age nor did you provide further proof. You threw out counting numbers. What was even more egregious was the use of Gordon and Cabrera that failed to put up close to season spikes that were seen when cycling on. You also failed to acknowledge those that didn’t fit you’re narrative. But hey I guess, we can live with your narrative, because when we get another article about the decline or subsequent injuries piling up you won’t be there to say maybe he was right.
If theyll take Ellsbury i guess it might not be such a bad idea. At the same time, I want the Yankees to pass on Cano
Mariners eat 60% of Cano’s contract and receive Dave Valle and Harold Reynolds in return.
You are prolly right.
Mariners eat 99% of Canos contract and get a Rob Refsynder signed ball and worn jersey in return.
Who says no?
What I want to know is what kind of $ Cashman asked SEA to pay in the swap.
I assume he shot for the moon and asked them to pay like $30m so that the Yankees were on the hook for $90m over the next 5 years.
But if SEA came back and offered to pay $15-20m, I guess I’d have to consider it if I were Cashman.
Don’t expect anything to come of this, but interesting all the same.
They said a “hitter friendly park” in Safeco field? That’s literally the opposite of what it is.
Cano for Pujols.
This is what I have been thinking all offseason. Dipoto gets to save quite a bit of money and replace Cruz as fulltime dh. Remember that Pujols is a guy that he actually signed unlike cano. Angel’s get a worse contract, but a guy who is actually producing. This gives them the solid left they need and can free up dh at bats for ohtani. Gives them a significantly better chance at winning (while clearly difficult with current roster and Astros in division) the next two years while they still have trout
Owing more money to a guy is not the equivalent of a worse contract. Paying pujols 90MM for 3 years is far far worse than cano at 5/120.
Pujols can’t even run!
I am not saying it is equivalent. I’m not saying it had to be straight up. I will say that Pujols will put more butts in seats if they are doing a couple year rebuild/retool. Fans of a losing team would rather see an aging superstar chasing records than a guy that just got an 80 suspension in a year where some thought they could contend. I am just saying a deal, while extremely complicated and unlikely to happen, could make a lot of sense for both teams
The real issue aside from the obvious is figuring out how to work around Cano awful contract and then figure out what he is now and next year. The Yanks have too many DH types and Cano is a serviceable but not great defensive second basemen. First base maybe?
Then the obvious aside from taking Cano and his 120 million is what else is coming and what’s going?
Elsbury would have to waive and he’s the obvious player going with his 47 million left. Then Seattle would have to kick in more money, maybe another 25 million.
The Yanks on top of that should ask for Segura which Seattle would reject as they probably feel they can get decent prospect value for!
Where does this entire scenario leave Torres? He is there 2nd/SS and he is the future core the Yanks are building around so he’s not going anywhere.
This trade would need a third team to get off the ground and have to make sense more for the Yanks as Seattle’s main objective is getting rid of half of Cano contract!
This is too complicated therefore it’s not likely!
Seattle isn’t paying Ells 47 million and then giving NY another 25 for a still productive player. I can’t see the mariners eating more than 60 which would be half of the deal. Even as I say that they’d have to be pretty motivated financially to do so. That’s a lot of cash to eat. I think that’s the number that would make sense to an opposing club though maybe they’d take on a bit more.
Would they really need to add much more money? Ellsbury’s money would bring Cano down to 73 million. Divide that by 5 and it’s 14.6 million per year without giving up any high end talent. That’s not too bad and they could slot him at first and the middle of the order for a couple years before his decline starts.
Ells for cano straight up makes sense. Cano is still productive. Ellsbury gives you nothing. Do the Yankees want to commit 73 MM to a guy like cano though? He’ll have all the leverage with his NTC to say where he goes. That’s why I said the mariners may end up eating half of the deal if they want to move him. Even half is only 13 million more than Ells is owed though
Doubt the NTC is a big deal here. In fact, I’ll bet it’s Cano who requested the trade. He wants to be on a winning team his last couple years of relevance.
Makes sense in your eyes but why would we give up the ability in two years to get out if a bad contract that the Yanks are covered via medical insurance for Cano who just tested positive for steroid use.
No way is and even swap remotely close to being fair in most any realistic scenario!
I doubt cano requested the deal. Seattle punted 2019. If you’re optimistic on cano you think he can be a productive 2B for what 3 more years? Max? I can see the motivation to shed the money when you’re burning up at least one if not two of his productive years. You can roll those savings into a more productive player when your window opens up again.
Cano doesn’t care about what being on a winning team, he made that ABUNDANTLY clear when he took Seattle’s offer. He joined an M’s team that had just lost 91 games, had a pretty awful farm system, and an unwillingness to spend on anyone other than him.
Ask yourself if Cano were a free agent at 35yo coming of a PED failed test and numbers obviouslay down what would he get paid?
Maybe 1 year at 12-15 million?
Maybe 2 years at 30 at most????
Why would you think 73 million is his value?
Lmao is it the Yankee gate that makes these comments so ridiculous?
Hate??
If cano was a FA At minimum a 2/40. Carlos Santana got a 3/60 last year and he’s a less productive 1B. It’s not like cano came back from his suspension and didn’t hit the baseball. He came back and looked just as good as before. He’s old. No way around it. He’ll need to move off of 2nd one day and is owed too much money as it stands but that doesn’t mean he’s worthless by any means.
Four years ago a 34-year-old Nelson Cruz got a four-year, $57 million contract despite a previous banned-substance suspension coupled with less defensive value and lower WAR production than Robinson Cano.
Alternatively, a poster at a Seattle forum suggested trading Robinson Cano and Marco Gonzales to the New York Mets for Michael Conforto and Noah Syndergaard.
Gotta love this time of year.;-)
Santana’s age compared to Cano?
Ped’s????
Lots of factors involved!
How would he effect the clubhouse???
The times have changed, teams are not over paying for older players especially Cano.
Pull in other teams along with NYY for this and to make hot stove interesting. Atlanta and Arizona should get in on this for a 4-way. And before Seattle fans lose it remember you are escaping from $120M without putting in any cash. Braves were able to shake BJ Upton by including him in the Kimbrel trade to SD. Here it is – 1) NYY gets Cano, Kolby Allard (Braves), Joey Wentz (Braves). 2) Arizona gets Teheran (Braves), Ellsbury (NYY), Wes Parsons (Braves), $15M from Braves to partially offset Ellsbury’s $63/3Yr deal. 3) Mariners get Sean Newcomb (Braves), Vizciano (Braves). 4) Braves get Grienke (Arizona), Diaz (Seattle), Hanniger (Seattle). NOTES – A) NYY gets out of Ellsbury contract without throwing in any $, align an asset (be it overpaid) with an area of need (1B/2B) and get 2 high level pitching prospects. B) Arizona gets out of the Grienke without throwing in any $, pick up a rotation replacement for rebuild, pick up a local guy in Ellsbury with some cash offset to better align salary with market. C) Seattle gets out of both $120M and a marketing nightmare without throwing in any $. Can redeploy that money for existing needs on free agent market – such as a new RF (Markakis?). Gain a young #2/#3 SP and a replacement for Diaz during re-tool. 4) Braves address #1 SP, RF and relief pitching needs with a front line closer. Begin to address log jam of high level pitching prospects to create rotation room. Who hangs up the phone first ?!?!?!
Arizona and Seattle hang up simultaneously. Then AA tries to make small talk with Cashman and things get awkward.
Have people forgotten Jacoby’s no trade clause? A giant risk to any trade involving him.
Angler- you put a lot of thought into that! What a complex trade! Sorry but Dipoto is not trading Haniger and Diaz. During this offseason it’s clear that Jerry is after 1 thing- talented young prospects or Mlb ready players who are team controlled for at least 4 or 5 seasons. Diaz, Haniger and Marco Gonzales are exactly that- ain’t happening!!
Talking about unfari trades: What about Canó and Segura for Goldy and Greinke?
No matter how you spin it Elsbury two years at 23 million per is medically insured so Yanks got back every penny last season.
Now why would they take on Canos awful contract at 35yo coming off a failed PED test owed 120 million past his 40th birthday? No scenario exists where a straight up swap of Elsbury (even if he waives his no trade and Seattle agreed to release him) would be a fair deal for the Yanks.
Lots of people on here try to equate Elsbury contract as one of the worst but is 47 million which is insured as bad as 120?????
Seattle would have to send money, another player, or a combo of both. This is why I said these teams don’t match up unless a third team was involved!
Ells is going to be cleared to play this season so how does that help? The insurance money won’t save the Yankees a dime because he’s going to get the okay by doctors. Cano isn’t a great fit on NY because you have a 2B but he still has a dollar value that isn’t that far off what he’d be owed after taking ellsburys contract back.
One quibble: if Torres is moved to SS (his natural position) they do have an opening at 2B. The question is, should they resign Didi, or bring in someone new at short or 2nd, whether that’s Cano or someone else.
Lol really so Cano is worth 73 million at 5 years if he were a free agent?
Wow it’s beyond ridiculous!
Steamer projects Robinson Cano to be worth $24 million to $27 million in 2019 alone with 3.0 WAR:
https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=3269&position=2B
73M over 5 years works out to less than $15m a year. I’d say he’s worth that, yes. People can’t seem to separate the stats from the man.
If he can stay healthy and hit a cumulative .265 with 15HR, 70RBI and decent defense over that 5 years I’d say he’s well worth $15m/yr.
You think any team in 2018 is giving a 36yo a five year deal even if Seattle ate approx 50 million your still left with around 70 million for a 36yo! That’s nuts! Good luck. Seattle will have to take back a bad contract, eat money, and deal something else to make it intriguing or get a third team involved.
Additionally, I’d be shocked if this insurance policy was transferable.
Cano for Heyward & Russell
Why would the Cubs do this? The Cano contract is larger than the Heyward contract… and while Cano is better at the moment, he’s quite a bit younger than Cano. Why would the Cubs put in Russell?
The difference is just, what, 16 million? Cano is better than Heyward. That is a bad contract swap I’ve thought of as well (minus Russell). It makes at least some sense for both teams.
Yeah the main part I didn’t get was why Russell was in there. Can I should provide more value for the first year or two of the contract, but Heyward the last 3 years or so… Heyward steadier. In the short run Cano is better, in the long run Heyward and Cano are probably a wash, and Heyward plays a position that the Cubs can use him at, and can platoon. On its face Heyward is probably a bit more valuable to the Cubs specifically, even if they are a wash in general. Even if they washed, why would the Cubs take on an extra $16 million? And where are the Cubs going to play Cano when he can’t play second effectively anymore in 2 years? Rizzo is at first and will surely be extended… Take out Russell and the value difference isn’t crazy, but the M’a would certainly need to eat the $16 million, and it just doesn’t seem to be a fit positionally.
I think the advantage would go to the Cubs, even if they had to eat the difference.
Cano still offers game-changing PA’s and solid defense. Heyward at age 29 dropped off considerably in the field last season and finished with a wRC+ of 99 at the plate. I wouldn’t bet on Heyward finishing his contract offering more value than Cano offensively or defensively.
That said, this was an idea that would have made more sense before Seattle acquired Smith.
With the deferred payments, Jason Heyward is owed about $122 million over the final five years of his contract (reducing deferred payments to present-day value).
https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/national-league-central/chicago-cubs/
In other words, Heyward is owed slightly more than Robinson Cano over the next five seasons.
Steamer projects a 2019 WAR of 2.4 in 138 games for Heyward, who has posted only 4.0 fWAR in 395 games over the past three seasons.
Steamer projects a 2019 WAR of 3.0 in 149 games for Cano, who has posted 12.3 fWAR in 391 games over the past three seasons.
Interesting, those deferrals are a signing bonus, so it would depend on who pays them out. But good point. If Seattle were to pay this then no money needs to change hands really. However, I still don’t a positional fit, or why the Cubs would trade Heyward’s steady, albeit probably average, productivity going forward for Cano’s probably last 2 good years, and then have a declining hitter with nowhere to play the last 2-3 seasons. I also still don’t get where Russell came from.
Robinson Cano has tripled Jason Heyward’s fWAR production over the past three seasons.
Why would Seattle pay more for a fraction of the production?
‘After being weighted for league and his hitter-friendly home park.’ Interesting since all the articles about the Paxton trade say Pax pitched in a pitcher-friendly home field.
Pitcher friendly for lefties. Hitter friendly for lefties. It’s pretty simple.
Bobby Bonilla is the worst contract still being paid out. All these others are nothing compared to his!
Check out Bruce Sutter.
“reimagining” leave it to Dipoto to spin things. Very tough for him to say , “Hey, I traded 40+ players.. including Chris Taylor, Freddy Peralta, Enyel De Los Santos, Mike Montgomery, Justin Smoak, Nick Neidert… for guys like Nate Karns, Zach Lee (who?), Voglebach, … AND it didn’t work.” So I am now I am going to reimage the roster… blah blah blah.
Robinson Cano would be the best hitter on the team if the Yankees could acquire him,
lol no he wouldn’t be
The Mariners should send Cano to Oakland so he can join their long list of PED users.
Even though I would love cano as a platoon player for the Yanks given his age and money owed this seem to difficult to get done
As a Yankee fan I would take back Cano to play first base once DiDi comes back. But the Mariners would have to pay his salary down and take Ellsbury. Plus give up a prospect or give up Segura if the Yanks add a prospect (not a great one tho).
Dumb…give up Cano for ellsbury and take on salary? Really?
David Price for Robinson Cano might make sense depending on what else is thrown in by both sides. Moneys about the same but Red Sox get some AAV relief and a sorely needed 2Bman (or 1B if Pedroia by some miracle can play again). Price still is good but his elbow and numb hands make him unreliable
Why would Seattle pay more ($127 million) for the numb hands and tender elbow of an unreliable lefty?
Hmm… Price projects to be a top of the rotation arm still going forward, while Cano projects to be productive for a year or two then bad… This would be unfathomable from Boston’s perspective… plus how does it solve the Mariners issue?
Cool. Guess that means Cano will be back hitting 3rd in the Yankee lineup. He was sorely missed for the past five years.
Seattle might as well plan on keeping him through the ridiculous contract. He’s still a useful hitter and the amount they’d have to pay someone to take him would make it pointless.
Seattle is rebuilding. Cano is not the mentor type, he’s a guy who “looks bad” while getting the job done. So it’s understandable that they want to save some money and move him to a team that needs production instead of inspiration.
The Yankees are that team. They have plenty of inspiration, with CC and Gardner already resigned. What they need is a lefty hitter who will protect Judge and Stanton. I can’t think of a scarier lefty than Cano, in Yankee Stadium.
Cano burned his bridge with trash talk of being disrespected.
There is a far scarier lefty than Cano—Bryce Harper who’s contract would end with him not being as old as Cano is today.
Cano is on the decline-certainly still serviceable—yet each year you must expect less and less from him. His defense is spotty and the Yankees don’t need a slow DH—bat as well as feet.
He can be traded to the Mets.
Well said sir
If Cano were on the FA market this offseason he prob get something similar to what the Ms paid Cruz 4 yrs ago – $57m for 4 years. Maybe $45-50m for 3 years. Nobody is paying $24m a yr for 5 years. I think the Ms can get someone to take Cano if they eat $50m of the contract saving themselves $70m. Over the last 5 yrs Cano’s given us 20.7fWAR which is valued at $163m, if you eat the $50m and balance his $163m of fWAR value youre just losing $7m over the life of the $240m contract. I’d like the Ms to trade him not just for the payroll relief but so we can keep Segura- he’s the most productive SS Seattle has had in decades. He (Segura) really must’ve crossed a line in the clubhouse because his name has come up in trade talks since 10/1. MLBTR writers must love Dipoto! Gives them a purpose in life haha
Seattle a hitter “friendly” home park?
I would prefer the yanks trade for Segura. He’ll be 29, with 4 reasonable salaried years under contract. He doesn’t strike out much, I think only 70 times this year, compared to the 150-200 times the rest of the team and league does. They need a bat on ball type of player. He bats 300 with a little pop, and can steal some bases. Plus they said they would prefer to keep Torres at 2b.
Cano being moved will come down to either the M’s taking on another bad contract; or kicking in a ton of money; or kicking in some extra talent; or find someone that is desperate for a 2B or big move; or some team that is absolutely dumb.
Braves will trade Julio Teheran, Darren O’Day and Adam Duvall for Robinson Cano, Edwin Diaz and Mitch Haniger.
Add to the deal Adam McCreery and Ricardo Sanchez.
Cano + Segura + Colome + Diaz to Phillies for Santana + Kingery + Cesar Hernandez + Sixto Sanchez + Adam Hasely + Ranger Suarez + Connor Seabold
I don’t get this packaging Cano with something of value talk. The Mariners are big boys, they’re not some small market team desperate to save money.
They shouldn’t package Cano with anything. They should simply eat part of his contract. Even better, they should eat most of his contract, and trade him for prospects instead of money. Like the Yankees did when they traded away Brian McCann two years ago: ate half his contract, and got two prospects in return.
This is why you have to be very careful with long term “blockbuster” contracts.
No, this is why teams like the Mariners have to be careful… teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, and Dodgers can absorb deals like this. Teams like the Astros or Cubs, on the verge of contending with a big crop of elite minor league callups can really benefit from a big star to build around.
But even when the M’s inked this deal everyone was wondering what they were smoking. They weren’t going to be increasing their payroll, they weren’t going to add a ton more pieces– their minor league system wasn’t improving– they weren’t going to remotely contend for but a short window in the middle of the deal.
Now they’ll trade him without ever even making a wild card appearance. Heck, they never even won 90 games with him. In fact their best run was when he was suspended.
I like Robinson Cano going to the Phillies. Its a big financial burden but it would help stabilize that terrible defense. The Mariners would have to take Carlos Santana and maybe even Tommy Hunter or Pat Neshek or both.