The free agent market as a whole is moving at a plodding rate. Somewhat surprisingly, perhaps, there also hasn’t been a ton of action surrounding superstar free agents Bryce Harper and Manny Machado. Of course, with so much money at stake, perhaps it shouldn’t come as a shock that both players are taking some time to work out new deals.
The latest …
- Heyman now indicates that Machado’s camp is looking not only for a $300MM+ offer but is still seeking a total guarantee that tops Giancarlo Stanton’s $325MM record (Twitter links). Furthermore, he adds that while there’s been no indication from the Yankees that they’re formally out of the running for Machado, New York has not yet made an offer and isn’t willing to go anywhere all that close to $300MM in order to sign Machado. Obviously, all of that can change quickly with one decision from ownership, but it’s not an encouraging update for Yankees fans hoping to see Machado in the Bronx in 2019 and beyond.
Earlier Updates
- Machado is still looking for an offer in excess of $300MM, according to Jon Heyman of Fancred (Twitter link). The White Sox and Phillies are the only two teams known to have made formal proposals, neither of which have reached that value. Of course, the Philadelphia organization is reportedly set to put in another offer, the details of which remain unknown. The Yankees have also still yet to officially put anything on the table for Machado, Heyman adds.
- Will there be significant movement? If so, when and by what mechanism? MLB.com’s Mark Feinsand hears that the markets for Machado and Harper are “heating up.” As his sources have it, the Phillies are “turning up” their efforts for the former, while the Nationals have “momentum building” to bring back the latter. Bruce Levine of 670theScore.com also cites a sense of market movement, but he hears it’s the White Sox who are gaining “momentum” on Machado. Levine also mentions a fourth, unknown potential suitor for Machado, though Heyman claims there’s “still no word” of a shadowy pursuer.
- Generally, there’s still a dearth of hard information on the various teams’ stances regarding these players. It’s still easy to imagine the negotiations evolving in any number of different ways. Still, it’s striking that so few teams appear to be involved. The entire situation is a “disgrace,” Jim Bowden of The Athletic argues (subscription link). He ticks through a variety of ballclubs that should be able to fit $30MM+ salaries and have cause to be involved, decrying a market situation in which “essentially just four teams [are] legitimately bidding for the game’s two best free agents.” On the same note, Jonah Keri of CBS Sports provides some anonymous opinions on the matter from well-placed league executives. There seems to be at least something of a consensus that teams are less interested than ever in exceedingly lengthy contracts, even for players of such relative youth, with a variety of other theories batted around regarding this duo in particular. The story also delves into broader market topics and is well worth a read.
I hope they both go to the A’s so Oakland’s payroll could finally creep over 90 mil lol
Exactly!! Every time this day and age should have a payroll of at least $100 million!
A’s could use Harper in LF. Maybe collect a couple players and deal for a pitcher to boot.
A’s could use a new stadium. Their concrete cereal bowl is a dump in a dump.
Look at this original, spicy take
Yes, the A’s stadium issue is the biggest contributor to their small budgets. The A’s, because they embraced advanced analytics before oyther teams did and got a leg up on the competition, have been a mostly successful small-market team and won 97 games last season with the smallest payroll in baseball. But obviously most other teams now have analytics departments and have poached a lot of Oakland’s staff that built that department. It doesn’t help that San Francisco is nearby and plays in one of the nicest stadiums in baseball. Oakland has consistently refused to allocate taxpayer money for a private entity, as they should, and if Oakland could get private funding for their newly-proposed “jewel box” stadium they could turn into quite a powerhouse, much like they were in the 80s. But yeah, they play in one of only two multi-use stadiums in the game, and it’s old and cookie-cutter and in bad shape.
I like that take David. Even the Yankees have shown a little restraint and built a young powerhouse. So many smart minds in the game these days and you can’t expect the A’s to compete while larger markets are building these revenue machine ballparks. The Raiders are leaving build a damn ballpark
it was the 70s they were a team of HOF’ers. Those 80s teams would have gotten their clocks cleaned by the A’s that won the three in a row 72-74.
Look up the rosters and remember the game was very different and the owner was one of the biggest cheapskate owners, Charley Finley but all fans lived seeing what he would do next. Even back then they were clamoring for a new stadium but Finley wouldn’t agree to paying for any of it as I recall.
You’re right they need a new ballpark but that won’t make them spend more. Fans can’t say that’s the key when they win 90+ or are at least in the hunt pretty much every season… but I still think the Saber metrics only approach has made the game very dull.
Totally agree. For competitive balance AND to make teams less apt to pocket revenue sharing, there should be a salary floor that EVERY team should meet.
The lack of the floor would upset me if I were a large market team watching teams take the money from revenue sharing and then tanking.
Well, there does seem to be a sort of ‘country club’ mentality among owners.
They’re in, and we’re all out.
“But keep buying those hot dogs, $10 beers and season tix!”
The overwhelming majority of owners don’t care about winning at all. Their one and only thought process is how to draw as many dollars from their market as possible. They are bloodsuckers.
I’m old, so I still play MLB 2K5 on the PS2. Laugh all you’d like…but, when I’m setting a franchise mode, every payroll is at least $125M with $150M being the maximum.
It’s really how it should be.
I’m with you on that, drum. I still play MVP 2005 on PS2.
Fake news
It works better if you use all caps.
Even better – add clapping emojis between words
NO IT DOESN’T!
Hey, it really does work!
LOl!
I seriously hate that phrase. There’s a difference between news you don’t find newsworthy vs lies. Just say you don’t care and keep it moving. I’m scared that younger generations are going to disregard valid news just because you don’t care to hear it or don’t agree with it.
Thankfully , (sort of) studies show that the younger generation is more adept at differentiatiing between ads and news, facts and opinion, and truth vs lies. It’s the older folk who are more easily duped.
The “southbeachbully” is worried about #fakenews – LOL
What does my moniker have to do with my point? It doesn’t. Shut up.
thankfully i must be living young!
Palma: perhaps you can share these “(sort of) studies”.
What a bunch of bull. Let’s keep it baseball guys
I know what’s real and I am old. I think everyone can reflect on reality.
Lol.. they have not lived a long enough time to put things in any sort of historical context.. and are easily influenced.. if it’s not on TMZ they dont see it.
Funny enough- ANOTHER ONE was posted today, d in la.
Princeton Prof ANDREW GUESS published a study about the spread of fake news on social media among age groups in SCIENCE ADVANCES
advances.sciencemag.org/content/5/1/eaau4586
You can thank a mediocre education system. It’s pretty efficient at churning out folks who lack sufficient critical thinking skills or knowledge of the Humanities (history, literature, philosophy, civics, etc.). A large segment of Americans just aren’t equipped to discern misinformation, put raw data into any context, or draw logical conclusions about what they hear or read. As a result, Americans nowadays are mostly cynical towards everything that doesn’t validate what they already believe to be true.
I tend to disagree with almost everything you’ve said previously but THIS comment I can up vote. Not that you care about my vote. Just saying…..
I don’t think this is true. Most people are too lazy to put in the effort and just go with whatever supports their beliefs. They can probably all do it if they really tried.
It’s a low information society, and that’s dangerous.
You’re right, I don’t care about “votes”, it’s good we agree on something.
Most folk — including me — like to think they’ve got it figured out.
We can’t all be right, so logically, most if not all of us must be wrong.
This much I know for sure:
Baseball is the BEST.
@ChiSox, woah, whoa, whoa there partner stop making sense. Us victims of said education have a hard time blaming underpaid (summers off) teachers. I need my safe space now.
Well, to be fair, firemen sit around with not much to do most of the time. We still hold them in high esteem, and you’re not going to hear anyone complain. Teachers are just as vital, and equally underpaid in far too many municipalities where low taxes hold higher value than quality schools or emergency services.
Fun fact: The name Machado is Spanish for “Maccabee,” as in the Biblical warrior clan.
It seems we have different definitions of fun
lol
This hahaha
Machado means axe in Spanish
Axe is Hacha in Spanish.
You mean ‘MACHETE”
I’d say it’s an interesting or intriguing fact, not fun.
guess it depends on which bible. Anyhow no player is worth $30m. Take the total of north if $300m and you can build an entire farm system that gives you years of sustainable production. Pass on Manny and Bryce and develop 10 Vlad juniors!!
I’m reasonably sure that if you can find the next ten Vlad Jrs that you’ll be fairly well compensated by some MLB club…
This… If a front office reasonably believed they had the next Ty Cobb, Stan Musial, Bert Blyleven, or any other player that could be in the top 50 of all time bWAR leaders, and they could sign them early in his career, they’d give them a $500MM contract without batting an eye.
The only current player in the top 50 us Pujols, but the Angeles mistakenly signed him at age 31 for all that money. Sign him at age 26, and that deal wouldn’t look too bad now…
Only take about 100 top 10 prospects to find 10 Vlad Jrs. No problem. Develop 10 of him.
just find one and clone him…right?
Good old fashioned hardball
As soon as one signs the other will for a few $’s more. Two ego maniacs. Both will have opt out clauses and will.
Its not ego. Both players and their agents believe they are the best on the market. The only way to prove you are the best is to get the contract that says you are the best.
Manny is NOT the best, by far!!!!!
Harper and Manny are the two best of this class.
by far!
Lol
I was mistaken, Manny is the BEST @ playing dirty!!
On the market, yeah he is.
Please, Harper is overrated 100%. I’m tire of his agent paying for fake news about his imminent contract with x club. Leadership, charismatic, and other personality limitation should be considered that may affect the moral or club chemistry. — Please, check side by side games played, rbi’s, run score, avg, golden gloves, etc. Then and only then say who is the best.
You are a tire?
Side by side comparison.
fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=of&stats=bat&#…
Bryce Harper believes he will be God of his own universe one day…also just called being Morman
Without implying collusion, it clearly doesn’t hurt MLB as a whole and all the teams in it if there are fewer teams bidding on the prime free agents. That induces players to accept contracts early in the off-season cycle for less than they might have received, and further empowers teams in negotiating extensions with talented younger players who are stuck in the service-time manipulated cycle. So, while I doubt teams are getting together to compare notes, I don’t think any of them are unhappy with a consensus towards negotiating that coincidentally lowers players salaries.
but why should they be trying to lower player salaries when their revenue is going up every year?
So they can pay other players more. Sign a superstar for $5mil less a year than you expected, means you can now pay $5 more mil on another player you might have not been able to afford.
have they ever paid more for other players just because they saved from top free agents? or will ever?
To reach their objective…to make more money.
Because the point of a business (that’s what a team is) is to make money. Why do people think just because an owner or ownership group has money, they need to put it ALL back into the team in terms of salaries?
Where this line of thinking started is beyond me.
However, that said, as pointed out above – they can sign other players. Is it better to have 1 superstar (I use that term loosely) at $40m a year, or 2 or 3 at $10-$15m.
This isn’t the NBA where one player can take a team to holding a trophy.
Attendance goes down players salaries have gone down 18 million but revenues at all time high seems to reason if teams stop tanking competitive play increases attendance will go up and owners would make even more money
Worked for George Steinbrenner. Spend money, make money.
Doesn’t work for everyone though.
For me it’s been, … Spend money, lose even more money.
“It’s just business, Sonny. Nothing personal?” I guess you could ask the same question why they need public money for private stadiums, special legislation, favorable tax treatment, and everything else that is available to the influential. Many say “why not take when it’s there for the taking?”
You can’t deny the economic benefits that a new stadium causes. If I were an owner I would want the city to have some skin in the game too. Mos
then give the taxpayers of that team discounted tickets
Brewers do this 5 times a year for the counties around Miller Park that pay the tax. 50% off tickets 5 Fridays a year.
There are numerous studies that show that taxpayer-funded stadiums almost always end up being losers for the taxpayers. Murray Sperber, a professor of culture and sports at IU, wrote numerous articles on the subject (he mostly wrote about college sports) and lots of other economists have done long-term studies that showed taxpayers almost always get the shaft in public stadium deals.
Easiest way to eliminate these disagreements on how tax money is spent: get rid of taxes.
Sports teams get neither taxed, nor subsidized, everyone just keeps their money and spends it however they see fit.
While I think the idea of anarchy is intriguing, I’m not sure how you would impose it on a structured society; you would have to start a tax-free society from the ground up, and it would probably resemble a sort of loose socialist society.
It depends how you look at it. What’s the per person breakdown on the tax money spent? A few dollars? How many jobs are created both directly and indirectly? How’s that money circulated?
monopoly protection, too.
A baseball-only stadium is only open about 100 days a year – 81 games, hopefully a few postseason games, and possibly for special events like concerts. ; most of the jobs created are temporary jobs or contracted out to other businesses (food service operations and bars, for example) and don’t pay a high wage.
I haven’t looked at the studies in depth but the real money is in the tax dollars generated by the players. A pro ball player has to file tax returns in every state he played in for amount of his money he made for that series. That’s a lot of tax revenue over 81 games.
Mike;
The only way I’d stop complaining about all the breaks and loopholes that benefit the rich, would be if I became one of them.
He’s correct. The public money that helped fund Miller Park and the surrounding infrastructure was raised by a ½ percent sales tax charged on all taxable purchases in the five counties surrounding the park. Once the park was paid for the tax was actually removed. It went away. Milwaukee is baseball’s smallest market but usually finishes in the upper third in attendance, thanks in large part to the retractable roof that guarantees every game will be played under comfortable conditions for the fans. Couldn’t have been achieved without public funding.
dobsonel – you are wrong about paying taxes in every city they play in. They pay taxes where they live, just like everyone else. Does a traveling construction worker pay every state they work in? No! Same difference for baseball. The Blue Jays, for example, have a hard time drawing players because the tax rate in Canada is very high paying for their Socialized healthcare, & other liberal, socialistic bs.
dcahen…athletes are not construction workers. They do pay in each state and some cities…..
forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2017/04/18/income…
Thanks for the backup Cat Mando!
And yes construction workers living in one state but earning money in another state must also file income tax in the state they earned the money in. The exception to this is if the state you live in and the state you work in have a reciprocal agreement with each other.
dobsonel….NP. I saw a picture of some player’s taxes (can’t remember who) and the stack of papers was huge. that piqued my interest. The “jock tax” started in CA (I have a feeling you know that) because of MJ and the Bulls and most other states followed through.
Even those who travel with the teams, coaches, trainers, FO staff all have to pay during the regular season. There is a reason, besides weather, that ST games are held in FL and AZ. FL has no state income tax and AZ, while it taxes regular season games does not tax ST games.
No player is worth 30 million to play a game.
You don’t get to decide who is worth what.
Correction: No player on the Brewers he ever been worth 30 million to play a game.
Brewer67 does get to decide, as do you stansfield, and every other person paying attention to games and/or paying customers. We leave, the players find a new job with whatever educating level they have.
I know you arent worth 30 mil at your gas pumping job
It’s not a game. It’s a competition among men who earn large sums of money for their work. It was a game 100 years ago, and it is still a game when played by boys and girls, but these are men. It is not a game.
Just like Cabrera has been worth his last extension with the tigers huh lol?
So what exactly is YOUR “educating level”?
replacement players must have worked so well for the owners! nobody came to see them.
“No player is worth 30 million to play a game.”
What if by signing a player he generates enough fan interest that causes them to buy tickets, merchandise, watch on TV, etc., and that creates $30M+ in revenue to the team? How is that not worth $30M?
That’s a simplistic view of the economics of the wholistic situation. Just because revenues are up, doesn’t mean profits increase at the same rate. Overhead costs are also going up, especially in places now where the absurd $15/hr minimum wage has been implemented.
Additionally, if the players salaries continue to become more absurd then the cost of tickets will also beging to become absurd. It’s hard to put 40,000 fans in seats every night if your cheapest seat is $50 or more.
15$/hour is absurd? That’s not even a living wage in a lot of places.
But player salaries have little to do with attendance; most of the money spent in a stadium on any given night don’t leave the stadium, after paying the visiting team and accounting for all the expense of putting on a game. MLB is rolling in money from MLBAM and teams make a huge amount of their money with local TV deals.
But they also have huge expenditures. People see the total gross not the net profits and to whom they are paid out to. Most owners don’t purchase sports franchises because they’re widely profitable. It’s more of a status thing.
Yeah, sports owners are really struggling just to make ends meet these days.
You do realize if you adjusted the minimum wage from 30 years ago to match inflation it would now be over $18/hr. Its the same terrible argument I hear from Boomers that complain about Millennial’s economic struggles when they were basically making 2-3x as much money as they were without requiring any kind of secondary education (and thousand of dollars of debt).
^Yes Starbucks it’s absurd. So are you $4 dollar vendi lattes or whatever you’re serving this week…..
You could argue that players have a lot to do with attendance, salaries come with the players. The better the players the more a fan base would want to see their team play.
Minimum wage is for young people entering the job market. If you’re 35 and crying because your minimum wage job only pays $8/hr and it’s not a “livable wage,” then you need to reevaluate your life and all you did wrong. If McDonalds has to pay all their people $15/hr then the price of that awful tasting Big Mac meal just went from $8 to about $12. Understand basic economic principles and you will know why paying $15/hr is terrible in the long run for the economies of scale on the daily purchases in our lives.
Totally agree with you, some people just think they are entitled to things and don’t try improving their lives.
Huh? I haven’t set foot in a starbucks in…well…forever. Not sure how my silly avatar has anything to do with what I wrote.
Nope. That’s not true at all. Mcdonald’s prices have remained static, in terms of real value, since the 1950s or so, although the minimum wage has increased many times. It’s still too low; the minimum wage was designed to be able to live on, not just for “teenagers entering the workforce.” The CEOs and administration and management make millions of times more than the people who do the work.
As far as your little jab about “re-evaluating life choices” it’s a cheap shot. A lot of people weren’t born with a silver spoon in their mouth. A lot of people couldn’t afford to go to college,. A lot of people got factory jobs with strong unions out of high school and then lost everything when the CEOs shipped their jobs to Mexico or China or wherever. A lot of those people thought those manufacturing jobs were going to be there for them into retirement; they had kids and bought houses and did the things you do when you have a secure job.
And poverty is a vicious cycle; it’s hard for people who grew up poor to escape it, especially if they go to subpar schools, can’t get into a decent college, don’t have wealthy parents, etc. Arguing that an older worker in a bad job is there simply because they made life mistakes isn’t always fair, and it certainly doesn’t mean people should just starve in the street because they work 40 hours and can’t afford rent and bills. ANd you know, even if people did make some mistakes, it shouldn’t mean they have to pay for them with living in abject poverty the rest of their lives; we should be giving people second chances when we can, and it’s hard for people to get their lives back together when they’re making 8 bucks an hour
^It must be really hard to come up with BS all the time, Starbucks. Seemingly everything, baseball and life, your arguments come up with various holes. Unfortunately you have excuses for seemingly everything and plenty of misleading information to back it up. Again, baseball and life.
Yes, your avatar makes you Starbucks. I do not care if you believe corporate chains are beneath you or not. Until you have owned something in your life where you have to answer to and take care of hundreds of employees you (and the rest of the anti-owner/pro-players people on this site) have zero reason to have any disdain over billionaires you continue to support with your hard-earned dollar.
Players share of revenue has fallen while team revenue has risen. The players ARE the game.
Tens of thousands of dollars of debt. The average student loan debt is $37k at graduation and the average CC debt at graduation is $13K.
^YourDaddy – what were the team expenses? If expenses are very high then I do not care about the revenue. Yankees, for example, have a bigger Media Relations department than the rest of the league. All probably making 6-figures. What does that mean? It means salaries in the office and everywhere else within the organization add up. Other teams throw more money at scouts to look for talent all over the world.
Players trying to balance a budget? Yeah, good luck trying to run a team. Maybe players should line the fields and rake the dirt rather than have the owner pay for employees to take care of the players.
There is no game or players without owners or fans. Only thing your argument did was validate the idea college athletes shouldn’t be paid if they have a full scholarship. Thanks for that.
Apparently you need more of an education in life than economics. Not everyone has the benefits of college and opportunity that some have. You should re-evaluate your position and understand what is rather than what you hear.
^You came up with this diatribe over what I said? You should maybe figure out life before making an absurd comment. My opinion on education? It’s a ploy to help the upper class further succeed. Whatever you think I thought about education is way off. Given your comment habits on this site I’m not surprised you’re once again off the mark.
You should start a business and hire more than 10 people, then re-evaluate your position before you cast judgement like a half-wit.
Just like in life, whatever happens is what’s meant to be!!
Sox win..The White Sox Win…
I’m sure you are correct, they never gave up.
Goto…;
Take it outside, Ram Das.
(But, you ARE right of course.)
Put in overly ridiculous tax penalties for going over the fake salary cap… then complain about lack of movement and best players not making money they should deserve.
Any team at $150m in payroll would be essentially guaranteeing themselves tax penalties in multiple years over the life of the contract.
Honestly I do not think it’s the money teams are balki itng at so much as the years.
I think there’s many teams who’d happily give either of the 30 million a year, but in an age where most teams operate in 5-ish year cycles, a ten year commitment is very hard to swallow.
The players like long deals because it’s a lot easier on them and their families to have that security, but the teams hate them because it robs them of flexibility.
And that’s where the impasse is.
Can’t get by on $150M, it’s gotta be $300M. Hell, $30M is a boatload of security by itself, isn’t it?
Soooo in short nothing new -_-
Machado at $300mil would be a mistake. Wait a year and bid up Arenado, Rendon or a potentially reborn Donaldson. Use the extra $70mil-$250mil on other roster needs.
Arenados home road splits are scary if considering a mega contract
Arenado is 2 years older, has mediocre numbers away from Coors and is also a Boras client so expect the same shenanigans. Same for Rendon who is 2 years older and a Boras client too. Donaldson is 7 years older and entering his declining years.
I’m not a huge Manny fan but it’s quite clear why there’s so much interest.
Arenado CHOKED in the field in the postseason. Back-to-back games he had a round-the-horn-double-play and just took the easy out of the runner going 2B to 3B.
Am I the only guy who watched the playoffs in 2018?
Yeah but a bunch of girls watched.
So, if your favorite team desperately needed a 3B and had the payroll space, you’d prefer they sign Machado for $300mil over Rendon or Arenado at $200mil?
Not the consensus I’d expected.
Absolutely.
Machado is way better than Arenado and Rendon. Those two are a clear level below Machado, maybe even a level and a half.
I’ll take Rendon at much less money than Machado. The spread between the two is much closer than you think.
Anthony Rendon is yours.
I’m not arguing that Manny is worth $100 mil more than either but Manny is the younger player.
NotRolen said Machado was way better than Rendon. I don’t think he’s “way” better. Also not saying Rendon deserves a 10-year deal. I never said that period. I’l gladly take Rendon and I doubt many people would say no.
Southbeach;
Wish I’d bought stock in Boras 20 years ago.
If there was a team called “Mystery team,” what city would that team play in?
…Yes I am bored.
it’s the Springfield Isotopes
My guess is either Isengard or Cloud City.
They’d be playing in Eerie, Indiana.
Santa Claus, Georgia. Because the mystery team is like Santa — it’s a figment of the imagination.
Wait, Santa Clause isn’t real?
Alaska … as in, Mystery, Alaska”
boras ghosts
Reflect;
Why anyone would want to live in Duluth has always been a mystery to me.
But they don’t have a MLB team, that I know of.
Go Tribe!
As a guy who is 1.5% Native American, all I can say is, … Go Tribe!
Please stop linking to Jim Bowden, he’s terrible.
I second that. I’m surprised that he’s employed by the Athletic, they’re supposed to be a cut above and have standards. I guess not
Honestly I wish they’d stop linking so many articles on The Athletic.. Why support a site that’s information is behind a paywall when MLBTR is free? Seems like a waste to me.
Because its better. The articles on the Athletic are longer and contain more information than an aggregation site like MLBTR can offer. That is why smart fans are paying for The Athletic. I take it you are not a subscriber.
Jim Bowden talks out his as.
You misspelled ‘asss’.
Note: The middle ‘s’ is silent.
Typically. In the article linked he is right on the money. Try reading it.
I’ve read it… he’s an asss. I’ve seen him on ESPN… he’s an asss. I saw what he did as a GM… he’s an asss.
But if you like him, that’s fine. Just means you pay extra money to get your information from an asss.
God bless the franchise that has to put up with Machado’s antics for the next 8-10 years.
YOU ARE SO RIGHT!!!!!!!!!! And I hope it’s the Evil Empire!!!!!
Yup the 35+ HRs per year and middle of the order presence will just be so hard to deal with
You’ll find out! Like I said I hope the Evil Empire has him to deal with his Drama! In case the NYY fans forget how the Redsox stomped all over him in the WS. He deserves some player spike him in the knee n put him out almost 2yrs.
Hey Pasha the EVIL EMPIRE was a name given to the Yankees by Bosox fans because the Yankees consistently outsent Boston and everyone else.Now that honor goes to the Bosox making them the Evil Empire, Chew on that
You realize the Yankees played Baltimore at least 120 times over the course of Manny’s career – probably seeing him at least 100 times. I think that they could judge his work ethic based in actual rather than a statement made recently.
Ido;
If only God had blessed them before, they wouldn’t need Machado now.
Could the Yankees be sitting on their stash waiting for Trout?
TROUT is not leaving LA.
Did he tell you?
Phillies might have a shot, since he’s from the area. Still don’t see why the Angels would let the best player in the MLB walk, though.
It’s happened before. Bonds, Arod, Griffey, Shoot…Ruth was traded too.
Yeah, and look where those former teams ended up—took them years to recover.
Why would Trout want to stay in Anaheim, i.e. LOSERVILLE? The Angels need to trade him if they ever plan on winning again, but they are too dumb to realize it.
What a waste of talent being in such a sorry franchise. He might as well be playing for San Diego….my bad San Diego is closer to a playoff spot than Anaheim.
If he does it will be to the Phillies.
he’d be dumb to stay
If trout leaves the angels Philly would be able to offer him a lot to come home and play for his home town team.
He’s from NJ ….
Which is 40 miles from Philadelphia. (I just had to look it up.)
He also grew up in the Massachusetts town, Mendon next to my home town.
Home town doesn’t mean jack squat with these mega deals lol.
He spends lots of time in california.
Maybe Jeff Todd knows his best friends and in laws?
pasha2k……That’s news to Lakeside Middle School and Millville High School….both in NJ
To put a final nail in it (since I have seen the MA falsehood before)………
nj.com/cumberland/index.ssf/2014/05/in_mike_trouts…
More like 25 miles from Philly.
He has a several hundred acre farm in the Bridgeton/Millville area. That’s about 40 miles to Philly. Depending on traffic an hour to an hour and a half.
YankPat;
I — for one — want to get as far away from my old home town as possible.
don’t sleep on the Angels as a mystery team .
even arte must have learned a lesson.
He did. Don’t sign 30 something year old players to 10-year deals. Has nothing to do with 26-year-old Harper or Machado.
In other words. There isn’t much interest in paying big long-term money to a dirty player with a bad attitude, or an overrated player who has also dogged it on occasion.
Hmmmm.
Klentak strikes out on both and that doesn’t bother me one bit.
A reliable source, Jimmy Olson of the Daily Planet, has reported Manny to the Royals and Harper to the Rays…….
Olsen was a photographer. Did you mean Lois Lane or Clark Kent?
Olson got promoted by scooping that Lady Gaga was Lex Luther……
lmao
Batman’s parents say Harper to Detroit, Manny to Arkham
Hmm… The Arkham Penguins has a ring to it.
Peter Parker published Machado being wined and dined by the Miami Marlins. Book it.
mmmmmmmmmmm….makes sense….Jeter DOES look the Green Goblin……..
bobtillman;
Jimmy just said that to impress Lois.
$300mil+ for either?
No thanks.
Nats would be better off adding some cheaper FAs like a Dozier etc than be locked into a player for so much $$.
I wish Atl would just go ahead and give Harper a front loaded contract with an opt out after 3 or 4 years. That way he opts out, or his salary drastically drops before they have to worry about Acuna, Albies, and others becoming expensive. Just flop the money on the table and lets get it done….
I know I know wishful thinking. A guy can dream right?!?!
Front loading a contract in order to afford other players down the line doesn’t really work since the AAV of a contract is what counts towards the luxury tax payroll. It can theoretically help a team that may be strapped for cash in a more literal sense (which most teams are not, the owners have plenty of cash), but luxury tax wise, doing that would make no difference (unless of course he did opt out).
Phillies, sign both. Divide $500 million amongst both. Trade Franco and others for a decent starting pitcher. Make a statement.
Krampus…. would that statement be? We are fools with money?
Two unarguable $400 million players and this is their market?
What happened to the Phillies “Stupid Money”?
MLBTR prediction for Machado was 13 years for $390 million. Phillies were the team predicted to pay that and they are a hundred million shy of that this late?
A-Rod and Manny Ramirez were both long gone by now back in 2000 and in today’s MLB dollars A-Rod’s contract would be ten years for $750 million. Manny Ramirez’s deal would be around $500 million.
C O L L U S I O N
You want collusion, take a look at the NBA. All professional sports are rigged though.
I will be stunned if both Harper and Machado don’t land contracts that have opt outs for the year after the current CBA expires.
Even with giving young players extensions, there is a big risk of injury and declining skills. The Owners are not going to give the players big money for doing nothing. The players have to earn their money.
What does that have to do with opt outs?
they have been playing in the league and have done very well. what else do they need to do? monkey dance or something?
Nash;
In a nut shell, yes.
Jim Bowden is like that fringe friend who tries to talk you into the most expensive model of something when it’s absolutely unnecessary.
Jim Bowden should be an expert on disgrace after his shameful exit from the Nationals and his usually inaccurate reports on trades and signings.
You’ve got two teams that most wouldn’t choose to play for bidding on these guys, they’re setting the ceiling, now someone needs to set a floor and the real negotiations officially begin.
Harper will be going back to the Nationals or the White Sox (my money is on Nationals) and Machado will be going to the Phillies or the Yanks (my money is on the Phillies).
Harper: 10 years, 350 million (opt out after year 4 and 6)
Machado: 9 years 305 million (opt out after year 3 and 5)
S T U P I D ____ M O N E Y
T
U
P
I
D
M
O
N
E
Y
W H E R E?????????
Yea I’ve been wondering the same thing!
I think there’s an unexpected team that’s playing possum that at the last minute they gonna swoop one of them.
Thats the Dodgers in my mind.. I find it funny that Bowden talks smack on teams, esp since his scouts took kickbacks from buscons on players.. Plus Bowden got caught hiding injured players in trades.. Bowden is a tool…
It’s the pirates and they are gonna swoop on Machado. They spent the winter meetings eyeing nick Ahmed, then Freddy Galvis, then they were “all in” on Tulowitzki. All just noise to hide the fact they are making a play for Machado. They passed on him once for Taillon in the draft. They are in desperate need of a shortstop. They have a 70 mil payroll right now when they have been a 100 mil team in the past when “contending”. I know everyone thinks they are never gonna spend but it all just seems to fit. Especially with the late season moves for archer and kela giving up young talent to go for it with this core. Then all of a sudden this doesn’t look bad.
Frazier 2b
Marte CF
Machado SS
Polanco RF
Bell 1B
Kang 3B
Dickerson LF
Cervelli C
Taillon/Archer/Williams/Musgrove/?????
Looks pretty dangerous to me. Fingers crossed.
Calibucs;
If you’re right, I’m an instant Bucs fan.
That’d be fun, but I don’t know if they’d be willing to throw around $30 million at just one player.
ya I mean it definitely is a shot in the dark. To me it just makes sense for the pirates to do this for so many reasons. They need butts in the seats. Nutting has had a cpl of horrible years in the eyes of pirates fans. It was basically a boycott last season not to mention the infamous “petition”. It’s an opportunity for him to garner a little goodwill with the fans. The Bucs are hurting for a SS. If we sign Machado then it opens up a couple of potential young talented guys to be available to make other moves to further improve the team. perhaps bolster the rotation. I know I’m a biased pirate fan it just seems like were sitting on a pile of cash and we haven’t made any big signings after dumping big salaries. At the very least i’m rooting for it! Plus, it’ll make @canocorn an instant Bucs fan so that right there should be enough.
I like that this article states how the market is moving slow. Every time I mention it in a comment on here I get a people jumping down my throat and telling me I’m stupid basically lol. At least someone agrees with lol. I do get it, these are not your typical contracts these guys are going for so it’s a bit more complicated and teams and players are probably are waiting to see what happens with them before other signings and trade happen but it’s still seems like it’s dragging. Hopefully we get something soon like in the next week.
I find it odd that Machado would go to the Whitesox, if the rumor is true that they are gaining momentum with him, he seemed like he wasn’t happy losing. So why just go for the most money? If the Phillies offer him a good amount of money I think he should go there, they have a good young team and he has a chance of winning there. I guess I don’t know much about the Whitesox roster. Are they close to being a contender? My apologies to their fans if they are. I just didn’t think so.
As far as Harper goes..to me it would be really awesome if he did go back to the Nats but I thought that ship sailed. Maybe his market isn’t what he thought it would be. Not a fan of the Nats but I do like when guys stay with one team for many reasons.
Machado’s grandmas cat likes the pirates…
The White Sox have a top 5 farm system and appear to be on a similar path as the Phillies, but perhaps a year behind in contending. They are in a weak division and could realistically contend for a playoff spot in 2020, in my opinion.
It’s still the white Sox. I mean, the white Sox. Might as well. E a minor league team.
Nice. Then if that’s the case I could understand them going after a guy like Machado who’s still pretty young.
I wish people would do some research on the White Sox before discounting them. They’re on similar paths to rebuilds that worked with the Astros, Cubs, Braves and Nationals. They could easily go from worst to first in a year or two.
Good thought, but you’re wasting your breath.
I learned a long time ago not to waste energy on someone who ‘doesn’t want to know’.
Like I said, I just don’t know much about them. I follow baseballs pretty closely but don’t pay attention to tower teams farm systems besides my team, I’m a big sports fan and it’s hard to pay attention to my teams, their prospects and other teams as well for me at least. So this guy saying I don’t want to know is kind of an idiot in my opinion because it’s not that I don’t want to know it’s that it’s really hard to follow it all. I mean if you read my comment I said I could be wrong about the Whitesox and if I am apologize. But I guess that’s not good enough lol.
Don’t apologize. Unlike Philly the White Sox have not won a damn thing. At least you can see some of the high end talent in Philly, and then Philly traded for all stars like Segura. Philly actually contended last year until they collectively hit a wall. The White Sox can’t even see the wall let alone hit it.
Who have the White Sox brought up that looks half as good as Segura or Hoskins?
The White Sox are hot garbage hoping their farm does what the Phillies will. Thing is, what percentage of prospects actually hit at the MLB level, and how many fizzle out and are overhyped for trade bait?
If Manny goes to the White Sox it shows he wants the money, and cares less about winning. If he does go there, wake me when they win a round in the playoffs, or for that matter a division.
Uh-huh. Good luck with that.
That’s weird. I could have sworn the White Sox won the WS in 2005. Are you saying the game worn Buehrle jersey in my man land is a fake?
It took the Astros & the Cubs 4 years to go from 100 losses to first. The Nationals took three. The Braves were never that bad and their first place finish with 90 wins says more about their division then whether their an elite team yet. The White Sox have a LONG way to go and a lot of things have to go right.
The Astros went from 111 losses in 2013 to the playoffs in 2015. You don’t have to win your division to have a shot at the WS.
A little nubber down the third base line.
In reality, who is really left? Look at free agent tracker and see a lot of names who had big chances but don’t deserve the major playing time or money. Ervin Santana – injured and busted for PEDS, ajj ellis, cant hit for a damn, matt davidson -all power, no average, non tenured and released.
Only good names, among the few are marwin gonzales, Craig Kimbrell and Dallas Keuchel
I don’t think AJ Ellis issue is that he can’t hit. He is above average for a catcher and he his .272 last season. I think it’s the fact that he is going into his age 38 season.
Well there are less teams this year planning to compete so that means less suitors. Also it isn’t what the player (or agent) THINKS that player is worth it is what teams are willing to PAY. I think more teams are not going to be hamstrung by albatross contracts as far as length in years anymore. The AAV might continue to rise but the years have a limit. The Stanton 13 year deal is an outlier not a norm.
Philly is set to meet w/ Harper and Boras this weekend in Vegas. We’ll know then whether Harper will sign with the Phils (which does not seem likely unless they offer a monster contract) or if he returns to Washington. No other team is even close on him. If he returns to the Nats, I would expect something better than the 10/300 deal they offered before, but not a whole lot better.
Machado seems like a fit either in Chicago or Philly. If the Phils fail on Harper, they might make a run at Machado, but really, who knows?
Jim Bowden is a horse’s ass. It’s obvious why neither of these players have been signed: they are asking for deals that run too long. Reduce that to seven years and you’ll get plenty of offers.
Manny to the Toledo Mud Hens on a one year deal that includes one tub of popcorn per game
Harper to the Durham Bulls on a one year deal with a mid season opt out with a free crash Davis bobble head….
If you build it, they will come…. hey bartender… Jobu needs a refill
“If you build it, they will come…. “
… That’s what she said.
Shocked agents are not screaming collusion…………………. yet.
Boras and Lozano should be.
The arguments used for McCutchen and Pollock say that the Machado prediction here of 13 years for $390 million is a conservative estimate and now the Phillies are reported as high bidder south of $300 million.
The Pirates can afford to write a $280 million contract for Machado. If you’re not sure about that then look up Joey Votto’s contract and the Red’s market size.
If the teams do it on their own, it is not collusion.
Sure revenues are soaring but so are expenditures too. MBA’s, analysts, IT guys, medical staffs you know Director of Arm Rehabilitation!, S&C people and their equipment, player development guys and health insurance, statcast expenditures. It’s a fast changing business.
I’ve found in the past day or two that it’s legitimately impossible to find info as to what MLB teams make versus what they spend. I suppose I wouldn’t open the books either, but I’m guessing there’s virtually nobody outside of the “inner circle” with much idea as to what’s coming in and where the money goes.
No idea, even, what percentage of their total outlay is consumed by player salaries.
You can look up the teams revenue and player salaries. The player salaries are roughly half of a teams expenses.
Not anymore. About 41% in 2018. For some teams its much lower percentage. The Yankees had $619 million in revenue and player payroll of $192.9 million. 31% of revenue went to player payroll. The Dodgers had $522 million in revenue and player payroll of $195 million. 37%. At the other end of the revenue spectrum, the Marlins had $219 million in revenue and $108 million in player payroll for 49% spent on player payroll and the Athletics had $210 million in revenue and $96.5 million spent on player payroll for 46%. The smaller market teams actually spent a much higher percentage of revenue on player payroll than the top 6 in revenue.
Forbes for team revenue. Cots MLB Contracts for player contracts.
The Yankees pay less for their entire FO, scouting, baseball development, and analytics depts than they will for Aaron Hicks in 2019.
Bowden’s phone is likely blowing up right now with teams asking him how much he’s willing to kick in of that $600+ million he’s anxious to see spent…
The worse thing to for the braves is both guys sign with NL east times while the Mets continue to build a better team on top of this, and the braves barely do anything this offseason. Horrible timing since our rebuild is suppose to put it all together this year. Now long term, might be a good thing if these guys eat up crazy money for a long time with these teams…
Keep in mind, it’s still the mets, who sign free agents who land on the dl from a golf swing.
I keep telling you this is how it will unfold:
Manny
7 years at 245 mill
35 mill per year with numerous player opt outs
Harper
8 years at 300 mill
40 mill per year with numerous opt outs
Both going to Yanks
Ohhh P.S.
btw, Dodgers have asked about Stanton.
I don’t see a team giving a lot of opt outs. The player can use it as leverage to get more money.
8 x 40 = 320
Stop believing your own fanfic.
You keep saying it but nobody else is buying it…
Jim Bowden: every team in Baseball should want to pay for [insert player} there is no way this will turn out like every other post-steroid mega contract (See Prince Filder, Miguel Cabrera, Albert Pujols, Alex Rodriguez, Matt Kemp, Robinson Cano or Ryan Howard.)
Uh, Miguel Cabrera? Worth every penny.
Cabrera is still owed 5/154 and those 5 arent going to look so good. Even if your willing to take Cabrera as a win, that one good mega deal in the last decade+.
He’s an absolute albatross right now for Detroit and will only get worse
Worth it until the team collapsed around him and now untradable… Which I think is the part teams desperately want to avoid… Those extra 3-4 years…
Arod was worth it when you look at the numbers
because he cheated?
That is why Arod was paid 27 MM even after retiring, right? As soon as biogenesis broke Arod crumbled
You can make a case that A-Rod was the best SS of all time, and 3rd as well. For many years he was playing again’st other PED users. The only reason he was targeted was he was going for the records. Victor Cruz was in the Biogenesis groug and he has the most homers over the last 5 years without PEDs. It’s time to put all these players in the Hall, 90 percent of the players in the past 30 years were cheating with Amphetatmines anothe banned substance. Since there elimination the batting averages have gone down 30 points from. 280 to .250
Known PED users should be banned for life at this point. That would disqualify them from being nominated for the HOF, as it should be.
You are very conveniently leaving out the age at which these contracts were signed and what age Harper and Machado will be when they sign this year. Below are the 6 position players who have signed contracts worth $200+mm and their stats from age 26-35, which is 10 years. I left out Stanton since he is only 3 years into this age bracket and included the 9 years for Votto and 7 years that Fielder played before injuries forced him out. None of these players 10 year contracts would look like albatrosses if they signed them at age 26 like Harper and Machado are now, with the exception of Fielder who suffered a career ending neck injury.
Cabrera: .321/.404/.558/.962, 158 OPS+, 290 HR
Pujols: .301/.386/.559/.946, 155 OPS+, 359 HR
Cano: .305/.362/.503/.865, 134 OPS+, 249 HR
A-Rod: .296/.391/.564/.955, 147 OPS+, 388 HR
Votto: .311/.436/.528/.964, 159 OPS+, 216 HR (9 seasons)
Fielder: .282/.383/.475/.857, 131 OPS+, 159 HR (7 seasons)
Age matters and getting a superstar free agent at 26 years old is huge.
Question for any Nats fans who care to weigh-in.
With the OF depth the team has, would you prefer they pass on bringing Bryce back and lock-up Rendon long term, OR lose Rendon to FA next year and keep Bryce???
Not a Nats fan but I think it would be a big mistake with their of depth to sign Harper and lose Rendon. Tying down Rendon to a long term contract clearly the way to go
I’m a Nats & NYY fan. Follow Nats and go to their games since they came to DC. Harper has a lot of upside for the team without the $$ 30M factor but no Rings or LDChamp. Rendón is key Keep away from Harper now and get stronger elsewhere. Gotta win in the next year or 2!
Someone, please sign!
Why not just 3-way call and ask these jokers if they want to get paid AND win together. 325M each 8 years opt outs at 3 and 5 yrs.
I think manny knows where he wants to go but he’s just waiting to see if he can get a little more money out of them before signing
Good strategy, as long as he isn’t hit by a freight train b4 signing.
They really need a free agent signing period, this is ridiculous.
I get that the contract lengths being talked about are ridiculous, but if you’re a team that has a lot of money to spend, I don’t see why it’s a bad idea to throw out this kind of money for one of these players. Everyone keeps talking about how it’s such stupid money, but if you’re a team like the White Sox or Phillies, what else are you spending that money on this offseason? Marwin Gonzalez? AJ Pollock? Dallas Keuchel? Craig Kimbrel? That’s basically the best of what’s left. Most players out there are over four years older than Harper and Machado and performed far worse than they did last year.
If you wait until next year’s crop of free agents, you’re looking at players that are also older and likely have more red flags. I’m not saying every team should be after these two, but at 26 years old, you could certainly spend that kind of money in much worse ways. Either the Phillies or White Sox could offer 10 years 300 mil to Machado and still have money left over to spend. Hell, the Sox could likely get Machado, Pollock and Keuchel and still be comfortable. They won’t, obviously, but still.
The Phillies can write $400 million contracts for both Machado and Harper.
If the Phillies choose, they lose.
I’m a huge Nats fan, and I really hope the Nats don’t spend that much money to sign Harper, especially if it means they can’t extend Rendon. Think of all the other needs (2B or another SP) they could address with the Harper funds.
Isn’t Harper really just a DH type hitter who produces at All-Star, but not Hall of Flame seasons at this point? At least if you go by last year.
Up until last season he was a legitimately good outfielder. So it really depends how much you want to put into one season versus career norms
Lower your demands to 4 years and see where the intetest is.
According to souces , yankees are out on machado. It’s down to the white sox & phillies. Go get him philly.
And the sources are …..
yup, heard its down to White Sox and Phillies – confirmed
He is no more credible than dan Clark. Imma wait. Either way I want this saga to be over already lol
They probably decided to wait for Arenado.
I think they are just lurking like they always do. Cashman is a ninja (Stanton last year). I won’t try to predict anything at this point. Plus arenado outside of coors scares me big time and he is 2 years older than manny
At 300+ million I don’t want Machado even if the plan was to keep Andujar. They have Andujar so there is no NEED to get this guy at that dollar amount.
On another note, Didi is getting so much love from Cashman you gotta think that he will be back on an extension or just resigning him when he goes FA.
You know that Andujar won’t be the 3B long if at all, right?
And your source is?
Wrong.
Astute observation. Care to elaborate?
What sources are those? Cash is never out on top players.
I doubt the Yankees even put an offer on the table. Same story as Corbin. He team doesn’t want to dance with these free agents
Machado is a really fugly dude. I hope my team the Phillies don’t get him. I Couldn’t stand to look at his mug for the next five years.
The latest reports are that Machado will sign with the White Sox.
I think he’s better fit for the phillies, the white sox are not ready, prolly another year for them.
The White Sox have a better farm system and are in a weak division They are a better fit long term.
White Sox can also just go all-in and grab Pollock, Kimbrel and Keuchel too and really take a swing at the Central title.
The Phillies aren’t winning their division with Machado next year either, so it’s a moot point. The White Sox have elite talent coming to the bigs soon, which makes them more viable than Philly for the next 3 to 5 years atleast.
Phillies have a plenty good shot at the East, they don’t have a lot of margin for error with 3 other contenders, but their overall talent level is totally enough to win the title.
NL East going to come down to injuries.
The White Sox won’t win a thing during the tenure of his contract if he signs with them.
quality commenting
Quality reply
Brown;
Trout don’t live in ugly places.
But sometimes the guys who fish for them do.
Both of these guys are heavily overrated. Machado also has low moral character.
how can anyone judge anyone elses moral character? he plays mindgames on the field, probably against your fave team, thus the judgmental bs
Blatantly trying to injure other players isn’t a “mind game,” and neither is admitting to refuse to play hard. Think before you post, kid. As a Dodgers fan, I couldn’t wait for him to be gone. You are wrong on all accounts. He was an embarrassment to my “fave” team.
He was NOT “Blatantly trying to injure other players” – name one instance. Lightly dragging your foot over a 1B’s ankle is head games but the media convinced you otherwise. Machado has literally no other moral issues and no issues off the field.
I suggest you grow up before telling others who don’t share your cockamamie views on baseball what they can and cannot do.
Wrong.
its ridiculous these people think it’s wrong for teams not to be involved on a player who isnt worth his asking price. I’m sorry but no player needs 35-40 mil per year. on top of guarenteed 10 years, what if they dont live up to it? get injured? that can absolutely cripple a franchise and restrict them from having the resources needed to build a team around them. who cares how old they are
Can’t wait to hear Boras kick and scream like a bratty toddler. As usual, he can go f*** himself.
Any GM that coughs up anything approaching 8yrs should be fired before pen gets to paper. There is way too much downside risk committing for that long, and if/when something goes wrong it cripples your flexibility as a ball club going forward when you’re on the hook for $30mm/yr in dead money.
Unlucky for today’s stars but the days of 10-yr deals are (well, should be) gone.
You’d think a guy like Boras would be ok with that. 4 year deal 160 mil, then his client can hit free agency at 30 and get another 4/5 year deal
Machado wants to break the record for the biggest contract and with a long contract, if he gets injured he gets paid.
Any GM that signs Machado should be fired
Mets are dark horse team for machado
In your dreams dude. Nobody has even mentioned the Mets this entire time
I think they did in the beginning, but I can’t see them spending that money or commitment on anyone at that level. Definitely a dream
Machado to NYM doesn’t make a lick of sense, they have so many SS and 3B options both now and in the future. The Mets should instead get Kuechel and Kimbrel if they have the money for Machado.
Machado to the Giants!
Come on Zaidi!
Wait to see what the market is and then make the offer if you are still interested
Wrong.
No not wrong. Why just make a blind bid without seeing what he is offered from other teams first ? The Yankees aren’t desperate here
Yankees don’t need another cancer!!
Another? Who are the other cancers?
Exactly
It doesn’t matter what the player wants, the highest offer is the highest offer.
Did anyone read the yearly “projections” for these two from MLB? Is it just me, or is there a reason they don’t see either of these two getting better? Every year they regress – staying they have already had their best years (at least for Machado) the more I read the harder it is to understand why they both command such a high price tag.
I never pay attention to projections
That is why you shouldn’t pay any attention to projections. Players have their best seasons between 26 and 30 years old. Other than the steroid users, that is pretty much a law of baseball performance. A few exceptions here and there where a player had the best season of their career in their early 30s, but not from 19-25 if they played beyond 25.
Machado and Harper are going into their age 26 season. Anyone with half a brain would expect them to improve. Harper already has a 10+ WAR season and Machado’s best was 7.1 WAR. They should be expected to have at least one season that is better than that in the next 5 seasons.
Willie Mays had his 4 highest WARs from 31 to 34. Mantle had
his 2 highest WARs at 24 and 25 Nick Markakis had his highest WAR by far at 24. Names like Harvey Hill and Happ come to mind.What you said is probably often true but stating it as if it is fact is just plain dumb. I think you called it a law of baseball.It took me 5 minutes to come up with those names
I don’t disagree – just stating what the article said. I couldn’t wrap my head around that either. The writers basically projected they have already had their best seasons / which I cannot believe.
Machado’s numbers could absolutely go down.. How many players have career years on their walk years and then never repeat those numbers…..Jacoby Ellesbury, to name one
Since we are using the logic of normal players peeking between 26-30, my logic is also fairly common.
Manny Machado just had the best offensive year of his career… I’m not so sure he’s regressing “every year.”
Machado plays a premium position, is younger than Stanton was when he signed his extension, and he has been better on the field. Its not particularly close either. Machado is a better player.
If Stanton was worth $325 million, and most Yankee fans on here argued that he was worth that money at the time of the trade, then Machado is clearly worth more.
It’s not what you think you are worth, it’s what you can get.
I think I am worth much more than that and since I own my own business I can pay me all I want from the revenue that my company receives. The Yankees received enough revenue to pay for Machado or Harper’s entire contracts in a single year.
For those guys, it’s not about what they think they are worth, its what the market dictates.
IF Stanton was worth the $325 million, and other Yankee fans say that he is, then Machado is worth more.
I have a pug that chases his tail. Kinda looks like you.
What were the Yankees total expenses? What about their net profit? Nobody should care about the revenue.
I am surprised Machado doesn’t have that type of offer already. Sounds like the Nats aren’t messing around for Harper and he’ll get his but I was expecting a neck and neck contract between the two. I imagine the Yanks haven’t made a formal offer because they were told the range the bidding started and won’t go there
Just here for the Yankee tears
Yes, they are. You’re wrong.
“The entire situation is a “disgrace,” Jim Bowden of The Athletic argues (subscription link). He ticks through a variety of ballclubs that should be able to fit $30MM+ salaries and have cause to be involved, decrying a market situation in which “essentially just four teams [are] legitimately bidding for the game’s two best free agents.”
Known teams involved in the bidding for Harper and/or Machado…
NYY (#1 market in US) LAD (#2 market in US) CWS (#3 market in US) PHI (#4 market in US) and WAS (#8 market in US, but per capita the richest). So, the 4 biggest markets and the richest are the ones involved in the bidding. This is an obvious outcome.
And is not paying more than something is worth even if you can afford to do so a “disgrace”?
What you’re saying isn’t accurate.It doesn;t matter if it’s a big market it only matters if its a big baseball market. . Philadelphia is the 9th franchise in worth Nationals tenth Chicago White Sox 14th. If the Mets were bidding or the LA Angels you surely wouldn’t be talking about a huge market team would you.
Unless the Mets moved out of NY or the (dubiously named) LA Angels moved out of Anaheim (which is still basically LA except with more concentrated wealth) then I surely would.
These are the #1 and #2 media markets and two most populous metros in the nation. The Mets spending is due to unique ownership, shall we say and the Angels spent freely until they got burned by a series of large contracts to star players that went bad.
If either player were worth the huge sum they seek, then wouldn’t they be able to make these into “big baseball market”s? If not….then what exactly makes them worth so much more than their peers?
For a .282 hitter with a .335 OBP who has driven in 100 runs once and never hit .300 in his career.
I’ve kind of wrapped my head around the Yanks possibly signing Machado. Never been a big fan of the idea myself. But I’m not gunna hate it totally like I did the Ellsbury overreaction signing after losing Cano. I’ve always been on the Harper bus if they r going to make a 300+ mill signing. I think Judge will get a big contract in a couple years as will Torres so not splurging on these 2 would help. But, I think they kinda crapped the bed by not going to 6 on Corbin and opting for Happ instead. Also not going the extra year or 2 for DRob. My wish list has always included Corbin, DRob and Britton. And a second/SS stop gap. Which they got with Tulo. But maybe another low risk signing will b in the cards for the back up middle IF
I think Cashman has done a good job this winter; not signing Machado is a prudent move also, I think. He’s not even close to being worth what he thinks he’s worth. Of course, no athlete has ever been worth 300 million dollars, but Harper could command that kind of money before Machado. The Yankees don’t need Harper either. Pitching is always something you can’t have too much of, so I agree about Corbin. I also think Charlie Morton would have been a great pickup; his cost is held down (relatively speaking) by his age and the length of commitment is held down (also because of his age) but he’s got a few good years left. For relief you can’t lose with Britton, but I’d probably have gone cheap in the bullpen because the Yankees already have a good bullpen and there are other options: Boxberger, Phelps, etc. If the Yankees do nothing else I’d say they had a successful offseason. If they land Machado or Harper they’ve improved their team greatly, although I wouldn’t say they made a prudent financial decision.
I agree. Don’t NEED Machado or Harper. But I have stated plenty of times on here that I prefer Harper and didn’t want Machado. But I was beginning to wrap my head around Machado as a possibility.
But the bullpen is where we disagree. They r competing against 2 really good offenses in the Astros and Red Sox the more diverse the relief core the better. That’s y I’ve been lobbying for DRob and Britton. Both bring a different look then just the heat from Betances and Chap. Brittons sinker and DRobs curve r major differences from the fastball slider combos
No player is worth that amount of money. Not one.
The Rangers started this slippery slope clusterfuck with A-Rod; agreeing to a contract worth more than the franchise itself
I agree 100%. How baseball let the salaries get this much out of control is astounding. Superstars used to be the only ones making tens of millions of dollars; now even marginal players are making tens of millions, while the superstars are making hundreds of millions. The real losers are the poor saps who recorded hall of fame careers but still had to take a job in the winter to make ends meet. There are now guys whose only way into the hall of fame is to buy a ticket like everyone else making more money in one year than those players from 50 years ago made in their whole career.
Reread what you wrote. Isn’t that what naturally happens with time? Gas used to be $.10 a gallon? Now it’s $3. Nothing changed in the gas other than time and inflation. So superstars are still commanding that same pay, it has just inflated.
Free agency turned millionaire owners into billionaires. The money is there thanks to the players. Why shouldn’t they get a sizable portion of it? Also, why do you care what other people make? It seems like you want to go back to the “good old days” when the owners kept all the money and gave bread crumbs to the players. Thankfully, those days are long gone.
I’d be interested in hearing an explanation on how free agency increased franchise values…
But, in reality, very little the players themselves have done has increased the revenues…unless you think this generation of players is somehow more entertaining than previous ones.
Changes in technology is what has turned millionaire owners into billionaires (or just as often, made it so only billionaires could become owners). Cable came along, then RSN’s, then the internet and streaming revenues, then league owned networks, plus increased understanding of how to sell merchandise, tickets, etc.
These are the reasons for record revenues in baseball (and other sports).
The players should indeed get a sizable portion of it, but, it’s incorrect to say that they are responsible for the huge increase in money in the sport.
Contrary. Free agency forced owners to become better business people within the sport. If you’re going to pay players more, then you’re going to have to work harder to generate revenue. Also, that revenue comes in because people want to watch the players. That is the product making the money. No p;layers. No billions of dollars for the owners to pocket. The thing I don’t get is why the owners are needed. What function do they actually serve that the players association can’t do on its own?
Everything outside of the game to make the game possible. Hiring staff ranging from grounds crew to baseball executives and everything in-between. Players have people carrying their equipment yet you think the players can handle running a sports franchise on their own?
Jim Bowden was fired by the Reds. His relevance ended a long time before then.
Phillies are basically bidding against themselves. Does anyone who follows baseball really believe Machado is going to sign a long term contract with another team that has no chance of playing in the post season any time soon? His agent is posturing. I hope the Phillies put an offer on the table and say, “Take it it leave it by January 20th or we are out.”
How soon is soon? Everyone has a chance to be in the post=season in the next five years. Even the Mariners.
I agree with you on the need to make the offer they’re comfortable with and then be willing to walk away. I don’t agree on them being a noncontender. I think as of today they can be in the thick of NLE race this coming season, just like they were for 3/4 of last year.
Hey Pasha the EVIL EMPIRE was a name given to the Yankees by Bosox fans because the Yankees consistently outsent Boston and everyone else.Now that honor goes to the Bosox making them the Evil Empire, Chew on that
If anyone out there is a personal friend of Manny Machado, please call Jerry Reinsdorf immediately. The White Sox are looking for a new clubhouse guy. Maybe several.
The part that really intrigues me is what if the Phillies DO land Machado and/or Harper? With Machado that leaves Franco without a home. Are the ChiSox, Pads, and Yanks all suitors. They’d all be out of their minds to give up anything super significant knowing the Phils NEED to move him. With Harper, you’d have to move one (or two) of Herrera, Altherr, Quinn, or Williams. Is there even a market for them? Then the team still has a glut of pitching in the upper levels. Not aces by any means, but lots of 3s and 4s. Acquiring one, if not both, is probably the beginning of a SERIES of moves for the Phils.
Or you know, just because Phillies fans have to throw it out there…..
Medina, Franco, Hernandez, Herrera, one of Eflin/Velasquez, and one of De Los Santos/Suarez
For Trout and whatever non-Pujols player(s) off the 40-man to make it work.
Lol.
Glad the Yankees have a set price and if you want to be a Yankee take it. Otherwise sign another bullpen arm and someone like Inglesis as a backup infielder.
The Yankees haven’t made an offer yet which is why machado is waiting
Not an easy decision for them to make.. Machado would instantly become their best player, but all those years for him and Stanton ties up a lot of salary for a long time. You’re taking $60 million per year for two players. Looking ahead, it might be hard for them to piece together a good enough starting rotation to legitimately contend for championships. Stanton was a colossal mistake.
Jim Bowden… .280 hitters with mediocre defense and little speed aren’t worth $400 mil over 10 years. Especially players with attitude problems. Add into it, these players pretty much told everyone where they wanted to play… why should a Florida Marlin team even try and sign one of them? Or over half the league for that matter.
These players made their bed… let them enjoy it.
Harper is the beast – has the god given talent visually at the plate and thus worth more to any team than “Nanny”. Fact is since Harper was in HS he has crushed it at the plate – you all seen it as he grew up thru online videos ? But MLB owners will regret crossing the 10 yr @ $30M threshold – I agree that building up farm system helps all teams more – but primarily owners only think about their pockets not Pennants or WS Crown.
I would like to see Harper resign with Nats just for Legacy if he signs a 10yr somewhere else and retires does he choose new location or the Nats when all his stunning accomplishments have come with Washington Roy MVP etc
Hall of Fame