The Yankees began the offseason with GM Brian Cashman openly stating that the team was going to shop Sonny Gray in trade talks this winter. As Cashman said to MLB.com’s Bryan Hoch (Twitter links) and other reporters today, plans haven’t exactly changed on this front, as the Yankees’ “intention is to move Sonny Gray and relocate him.” However, Cashman isn’t under any rush to move the right-hander, saying that the Yankees will only trade Gray “when we get the proper return, in our estimation. It’ll happen this winter, it’ll happen in the spring or it’ll happen sometime during the season.”
Notably, Cashman cited C.C. Sabathia’s recent angioplasty as a reason for why Gray could still be in the pinstripes come Opening Day. While Sabathia wasn’t expected to face any complications from the procedure and was still expected to be ready to pitch this coming season, Cashman said the situation “has given us pause” about dealing Gray. Given the understandable concern attached to any type of heart surgery, it could be that the team simply wants to make sure that Sabathia is fully healthy before going ahead and shipping off another rotation member.
The Yankees had already worked to fill Gray’s spot in the pitching staff this winter, between acquiring James Paxton in a blockbuster deal with the Mariners and re-signing Sabathia and J.A. Happ. That trio joins Luis Severino and Masahiro Tanaka in what should be a very solid starting five, and it doesn’t leave any room for Gray unless an injury develops or Sabathia needs more recovery time.
There has been so much interest in Gray this winter that there hasn’t been much exploration about what the Yankees might do if they couldn’t find a trade partner for the right-hander. This is just my speculation, but New York begin the year by making Gray something of a de facto sixth starter, only using him in road starts as a nod to his much-superior numbers outside of Yankee Stadium. With a sixth starter and multiple off-days in April, this scenario allows the Yankees to ease their starters (all veterans, and most with significant injury histories) into the new campaign. Gray could also be used out of the bullpen, though one would think the Yankees would want to keep him stretched out as a starter to appeal more to trade suitors.
Assuming a clean bill of health for Sabathia, it still seems quite likely that Gray begins the season on another roster, even if a trade doesn’t come until February or March. Obviously Cashman isn’t going to deal Gray just for the sake of dumping him, though it could be that the team might have to lower its very high asking price in order to accommodate a deal at some point. Waiting to deal Gray could give teams a chance to address its pitching needs in free agent signings or other trades, though conversely, a team could face a rotation injury in Spring Training injury and suddenly have a greater need for Gray’s services.
that’s smart for the yankees tbh. Sabathia is only worth about 4.0 innings at this point. Sevy shut down after all star break. Tanaka gets dead arm time to time. Good keep imo he can definitely turn it around.
The only turning around Gray will be doing at Yankee stadium is to see how far the ball went over the fence…they need to get rid of this head case
L O L
Good one
Would be wise but I think they bluffing but it makes a lot of sense
As a Red Sox fan, I LOVE the way you think. Seeing Gray on the mound always makes my brown eye…brown.
Sorry to hear about your bouts of diarrhea.
#thoughtsandprayers
Simply Cashman spinning after opening his mouth and losing leverage. A mistake for a normally smart GM.
Cashman is not a good GM. Never has been. He’s simply a Steinbrenner flunky and will do whatever he’s told.
agreed. anyone can be good with money to erase any mistakes that are made.
Why does this have 13 down votes? My gosh people on this site.
Nah. People just think its a stupid comment.
He is probably going to be their best starter unless they get MadBum in which case he’d be number two.
First, the procedure CC had done is an alternative to cardiac bypass operation in case you NYY fans think it’s minor, it’s major for heart disease. Second, Cashman made a huge mistake trading high for Gray, n now he’s trying to save face to the world, n I hope no one takes up his bravado on Gray, he fits in well either cripples, broken, n dwarfs(nod to GOTs). I am not calling any player a dwarf, it is from the show GOT.
If no one is willing to overpay for Sonny. Cashman won’t be able to trade him. Give him credit, he never makes a trade he doesn’t win. Asking for Trammel from the Reds was a joke…
The sooner Gray is run out of town on rail the happier I will be. He will do fine in a small market team just not in NY
Gray pitches well everywhere but Yankee Stadium, unfortunately. He’s not a fit for this team at all. Shame it didn’t work out. There’s a team somewhere who will take him
Yes he pitched very well in Baltimore and Kansas City. Oh wait – so does everyone else.
Gray would bomb in Baltimore, in that band box.
Aside from the fact Baltimore would never trade for Gray, Camden Yards wasn’t even in the top 15 in 2018 for Park factors.
It’s Never Sonny in New York
It makes sense. I think the question the Yankees and fans may have is what damage has been done with such a public display of dos-satisfaction with Gray. He’s already demonstrated he doesn’t have the thick skin for New York. I can’t imagine Cash’s comments help
I was about to say something similar. Cashman kinda shot himself in foot with his big mouth. Uve made it clear to all of baseball that u dont want him so nobody is gonna overpay for him. And now uve prolly hurt the players ego/trust so if u wind up stuck with him he prolly performs even more poorly than he already did.
I fully expect Gray will surprise many people here. He is a professional after all. Yes his ego has been hurt. But this is his career, he has been an all star before and will be again. Cushman has and will make mistakes but just because he’s human it doesn’t mean he has to be criticized for re-evaluation. That’s healthy. How many people here will say “I was wrong” when Gray pitches well this season? Most likely None.
I still think he’ll be moved before opening day. Saying that there’s no rush to deal Gray could help drive up the quality of the offers. The Yanks will definitely need to lower their asking price but as mentioned in the article, there is probably gonna be some team in spring training that will lose an arm in their rotation and might then make a panic offer for Gray.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a team make a panic move for a reclamation project, honestly…
Well maybe panic move was an overstatement, but I could still see a team increasing their offer in a scenario like that. Gray was good in 17, and i’m not aware of him battling any injuries this past year so health wouldn’t be a notable concern either.
The problem with Grey is that while he was a good pitcher once, there’s no guarantee he’ll be good again, and the team trading for him assumes all the risk that he won’t
So expecting some team to find themselves so desperate for pitching that they’d overpay for a guy who’s got a very real chance of being no better than somebody they could call up from AAA is probably expecting too much.
That said it’s not a terrible idea to hold on to him just in case, since his value isn’t likely to change at this point.
They could increase their offer from a couple of 35 FV prospects to a couple of 40 FV prospects? Maybe to one 45 FV prospect? Best Cash will get is a schmuck with a glove. Gray had a 4.90 ERA last season, 4.53 ERA the past 3 seasons, and he is due $9 million in 2019. Now if Cash ate all that cash, he could get a single 50FV prospect or a mediocre MLB reliever for Gray.
Honestly 9 million ain’t that much in baseball dollars. Most teams would probably rather keep the 50 fv guy
50 FV is an average MLB player, so you are probably right. A 50 FV prospect is worth more than Gray.
This headline is Yankees could keep Gray. The next will be Yankees likely to trade Gray. Both have been possible all along. It’s neither news nor rumor.
Oh yeah, teams will be panicking enough to trade anything of value for a pitcher who had a 4.90 ERA last season and 4.53 for the last 3 seasons. Face it, Cash got fleeced when he traded for Gray and he is going to give him up and get garbage back. It doesn’t happen often with Cash, but fans need to face the reality that Gray has no value and Cash has no leverage.
He was 7-5 away with a 3.17 ERA, 1.15 WHIP and 9.9 so/9. That’s over the same amount of games and 11 more innings pitched. Yankees got a good pitcher, they had no idea he would be so poor at Yankee stadium. He has value, and that is why teams are interested in him.
How many of those starts on the road we’re againts the White Sox, Royals or Orioles because it seemed to me last year those were the only teams he pitched good againts. I may be wrong but I live in the NY area and drive a truck and listen to the Fan all day not that I watched him a whole lot.
This is all true. But Kluber and the indians also faced opponents in the AL Central with an average record of 66-96, 76 times last year.
I don’t see anyone discounting his value Do you ?
Nobody is discounting their success because they were also successful againts other teams in other divisions.
Gray was only good againts lower level competition from what I remember. Like I said I am not a Yankee fan but am only going by recollection of the ny sports radio. I remember him being especially good vs the Orioles
Look at his career numbers. Doesn’t matter what team he is with. He pitches better on the road. Everyone already knew that. What matters is overall numbers because no pitcher is going to pitch exclusively on the road. 4.90 ERA last season. 4.53 the last 3 seasons. $9.1 million. That all adds up to no value in trade. Lots of teams have asked about him because they knew they could get him for a song, but not a single one was willing to give up even a major league reliever for him. That says a lot about his value.
You are really stuck on this 3 year thing. Yankees have had him for 1.5 years. Showing a 3 year subset as well as a cost does not justify a “bad pitcher”. He would be a good 3 or 4 on any team, which is not giving someone up for free. That would command a rather high return.
The usual Cashman/Yankee disinformation/propaganda.
Isn’t that the usual for every GM? You generally don’t see any team playing all their cards to lose in a deal.
Why not? His value can’t go that much lower…
Considering CC it makes sense to keep him. Trade gray or not I’m fine either way
funny how things work out sometimes. An injury in camp could create a need for Gray on any roster, including the Yankees.
If they aren’t getting what they consider fair value, hold onto him.
I guess 50 shades of Gray is not Freed
This was 50 shades of lame!!
and you should know, BONG, LOLOLOL!!!
“and you should know” well of course I do having read all your posts!! Bangin
NEEDS MORE CAPITALIZATION!!
We like Sonny for a Phillie? Return? Alex Bohm or Adonis Medina? Plus PTBN?
If gets that good of a prospect, would be a heist! And you want a PTBNL??? LoL, insane
No way he is a Yankee opening day.
The “proper return” is a couple of scrub prospects. Gray has a 4.53 ERA the past 3 seasons and 4.90 last season. No way Cash keeps him into the season. That is all posturing. Get him moved Cash. Got to make room for Manny.
You downvote that because you don’t want Manny in the Bronx? I can appreciate that.
Everything about Gray is right on the money. He has no value in trade, maybe even negative value because he is owed $9 million in 2019 and is a FA after that, and Cash is going to take some scrubs for him eventually. Just get it done now.
Still don’t know why Yankees depended on CC it wasn’t a major amount of money but health isn’t exactly his attribute. I think Yankees should sign Gio Gonzalez about the best one still out there to eat innings…Get rid of Gray
As bad as he was he did win some games keep him until time is right
If they want to risk running the guy out there, get shelled, lose ground to the Red Sox and erode even more of his little trade value, knock yourselves out.
As someone pointed out yesterday……
When the Marlins do this with Realmuto, the entire organization is toxic, Derek Jeter is a dummy, and if Realmuto isn’t traded by opening day it’s a crime (maybe Congress should step in).
But….if it’s da Yankees doing it…..well, maybe it’s not a bad idea……after all………
lol
Different circumstances.
Marlins desperately need to rebuild their farm and have painfully few trade pieces left. Holding on to JTR and risking his value collapsing is just dumb
Holding on to Gray, who has little value as it is, when your rotation can be generously called fragile is not really doing the franchise any harm.
Comparing Realmuto to Gray in any context doesn’t really prove a point.
Completely different situations. Miami is in the beginning of a long rebuild and needs as much young talent as possible to build up their farm system. Realmuto is by far the most valuable of the few trade chips they have left and won’t sign an extension with them anyway. It makes complete sense for them to deal him now while his value is about as high as it will ever be rather then risk losing value do to injury or poor performance.
“Miami is in the beginning of a long rebuild”
No.
Miami was rebuilt. The Marlins had a young lineup ready to contend. They were a team ready to be finished with free agent acquisitions.
The Marlins are not an MLB team, they are an MLB farm team. The Marlins function is to develop prime time players and then deal them to contenders at a cheap price in talent which helps to suppress the free agent market.
The Yankees, Cardinals and Brewers all could have used J.D. Martinez last winter. Instead they made use of the Marlins to supply their need and thereby left J.D. Martinez with one suitor in Boston.
Third time the Marlins have done this under three different owners. This is what the Marlins exist for.
Derek Jeter is still a Yankee. Always will be. That’s why he gave Stanton away. Hence Miami is a Yankee farm team.
VHS tapes are more aerodynamic!!
I always know I am seeing an uninformed baseball fan when they say the Marlins should have added payroll and players to compete in 2018 instead of rebuilding the team.
The Marlins ended the 2017 season with a $154 million payroll with $205 million in revenue.
legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/na…
Their payroll to revenue level was by far the highest in baseball, most teams are around 50% and some like the Yankees are around 35%. The Marlins lost $50 million that season. There was no way to maintain that level of payroll, let alone increase it.
The Marlins were 77-85 in 2017 with the 2nd worst starting rotation and pitching staff as a whole in the NL. To compete they would have needed to go after top FA starters while simultaneously cutting payroll by $30-40 million in order to stay solvent as a business.
So explain to me how they could have done that?
Stanton – $25 million for 4 WAR
(If he plays DH full time in 2019 and beyond, his WAR will go down)
Castro – $11 million for 3.3 WAR
Guzman – Struggled with his control at A+. Not sure he will ever be more than a reliever in the majors, but he throws with Chapman-like velocity. 103 mph regularly.
Devers – Played well at age 18 against much older competition in A and A+ ball. After being the youngest player in the Sally League, Devers was the youngest player in the Florida State league by a full year. Maybe the best piece in the trade for the Marlins.
And the Yankees took on $265 million in salary.
The Marlins did not give away Stanton. They got good MLB value in 2018, some very good prospects, and saved $243 million.
^Had Jose Fernandez lived, there’s a good chance the Marlins opt not to rebuild. Coming off 79 wins in 2016 they had a #1 starter plus a good young catcher, one of the best outfields in baseball and a pretty good bullpen. His death caused a major ripple affect that the franchise is still dealing with.
I would think that Thames, Anderson and Broxton would be a pretty fair trade for the Yankees to accept. Thames is left handed bat to platoon at first, Chase is a SP and Broxton is right handed bat off bench along with beings defensive replacement.
If we can get that we take it and run…kneble be good too don’t really need OF but I wouldn’t say no
Odds are that they will need/use 7-9 starters every year, so there would be many starts available for any 6th starter.
Just trade gray to the braves for next to nothing and call it a day… seems legit to me 😉
I think Cash is just posturing right now, he will move Gray before the season.
Agree
How is this interpreted/read as anything other than “we’re not going to just give him away”?
He was bad at Home but he is still a quality 3/4 arm that would fit in most teams rotation
I’ll up my offer to two hotdogs and a sculpin.
Ballast point is way too optimistic
I don’t think Gray pitches in the Bronx this year unless one of the starters is unable to pitch before he is traded.
Atlanta or San Diego make the most sense with their deep farm systems…
Atlanta trading Fried or Wentz with another decent prospect (Drew Waters maybe) should get it done
San Diego trading Luchessi or Lauer with another decent prospect (Jeisson Rosario) should also get it done.
LMFAO!!
There is no way AA is giving up nothing close to that for Gray. He had a bad year and the Yankees want him & his last year arb salary off the books.
I think the Brewers match up best with Gray.
Thames & Broxton for Gray & Romine.
Gives Brewers a quality above average catcher and a quality SP.
gives Yankees a LH bat that can split time with Voit if Bird doesn’t work out and he can also DH or corner OF. Also an OF that may be able to potentially replace Hicks if he leaves as a free agent at best but at worst can replace Gardner as a 4th OF.
So you want the Yankees to trade grays salary just to take Thames salary in return (he has two years left on control too I think) and give up romaine who might be the best backup catcher in baseball ?? Thames isn’t even good either lol
Are you sure bout that I am not sure but I believe Thames is signed for only 1 more year with an option for 2020. And his salary is less than what Gray’s projected salary is. He is a LH bat that the Yankees desperately need the roster as of now is to right handed.
My proposal also gives the Yankees an OF with starting CF potential who I believe has 1 more option left but again not positive. A clear replacement for at least Gardner next year.
I think Romine is a player but I also think Higashioka is a player as well. And I think Romine is a great back up or split duty catcher I don’t think he is a true starter long term. Def not a 135 game a year catcher.
And again for his salary and his production last year the Yankees want to get anything that can help them next year for him.
If you think of a better proposal that helps you next year by all means enlighten me I would like to hear your opinion.
That may just get a deal done. Broxton plays incredible defense, but the bat is a foreign object for him. Thames was awesome until major league pitchers figured him out and he has not been able to adjust. Addding Romine to Gray’s lack of value could make that worth it for the Brewers. Nice suggestion.
No way would Atlanta and San Diego do those deals. Think much lower of prospect and not multiple prospects.
All the other 29 MLB’s farm systems makes sense for what the Yankees can get for Gray.
@dermatteo1982 All of those pitchers were better than Gray last season and make MLB minimum. Wentz was the #45 prospect in baseball. Yankees won’t sniff a top 100 prospect for Gray.
I could see the Braves giving up a former 1st round pick like Demeritte or Jackson. The Padres may be willing to give up prospect like Brett Kennedy who had a few starts for them in 2018 or a lottery ticket like Pedro Avila for him.
Gray in Atlanta makes the most sense still. Unless the Yankees want a big league price.
Which DiMaggio brother was the best looking? I say it was Vince.
The more I think about it I really wouldn’t mind Gray in Atlanta. He will be pitching in a contract year and he provide them the ability to not have to rush the youngsters. Soroka, Gohora & Touki can almost rotate the 5 th starter and not expose them to excessive innings.
If he has a good to great year he could be an extension candidate or a QO candidate and a spot open for one of the young guys to step in and someone move into the 5th spot.
Not willing to give up any top prospects though. Maybe a bullpen arm like Biddle or Clarke with a lower 15-25 organizational prospect. But def don’t want AA to overpay for him.
Trade Gray and get someone who can pitch decently in the home park.
I feel like the Pirates would turn him around in a hurry. They have a habit of turning reclamation projects into gold, but they also don’t need a starter to finish 4th in the division.
Cinci maybe?
How to read the situation:
Yankees are pricing Gray like it’s 2017.
Other teams are pricing Gray like it’s 2018.
This explains the interest (2018 Gray was just awful but plenty of clubs would be willing to gamble just money on him). It also explains why he hasn’t moved (nobody wants to pay in good prospects for an older, more expensive, more broken version of what Gray was in 2018).
This won’t end well for the Yankees. For Gray to increase his value he has to pitch, pitch well, and prove he can pitch in Yankee stadium. The odds of all three happening are slim. He doesn’t have a rotation spot, he hasn’t pitched well of late, and he has been a complete and unmitigated disaster in Yankee stadium. So much so that I doubt he ever gets a chance to pitch there again unless the team is forced into the situation by injury.
Smart yes because of Sabathia, not so smart alienating the guy right after the WS that he is gone. Typical NYer…jerk…
Should have never resigned CC.
CC was a no brained for that price. The Yankees have plenty of young arms to share starts with him. I think the Yankees counted on Corbin signing and that threw a wrench in Cash’s plans with Brother Hal not willing to overspend for him.
I disagree. The Yanks didn’t even make Corbin an offer. I think we all don’t know what Cash is looking at but they were not in on Corbin at that price. They got Paxton and that killed Corbin chance of coming to NY.
What are you talking bout they had Corbin in after the Paxton deal and before he met with the Nats. It was all over the media in NY because they were infatuated with the fact Aaron Boone was seen bringing in Taco Bell to Yankee Stadium the day they were meeting with him. And from reports I read they did make him an offer but it was an extra year that got him to the Nats
Yes – I believe he is saying they never made him a deal, so Paxton more than made up for them not offering such a high price b
Wait? Boone brought in Taco Bell for the meeting?
Now I really can’t blame Corbin for going elsewhere.
Yanks wanted a sports car for Sonny but teams were only offering a used Fiesta 😉
I’ll call that bluff and raise them 20. Lip service trying to indirectly threaten the offers they are reviewing to hopefully make their counter offer stick. They will trade him before the season starts one way or another. He’s disliked in New York anyway.
That is a hell of a #6 starter.
Not busting Yankees fans balls but I don’t get why the New York press or the fans think George is still with us an running the show. The Stanton pickup is the only thing that is going to cost serious money on the back end of his contract. In the post George era the only other time they spent money or made the monster trade was when they signed McCann and Elsbury. The Steinbrenner kids don’t have the same passion or want to sink the money into the team like the old man to do whatever it takes to win.
The Yankee payroll has gone down or stayed the same for 4 straight years. Right now they are the 8th highest payroll in the league. The Giants, Angels and Seattle have higher payrolls.
If you put a proven ace and a solid veteran in the rotation and this team is a top team to win the title. They seem to not want to bolster the rotation with any quality or durability.
Tell me, where is that “ace atop the rotation” magically coming from?
Kluber and Greinke are both on the block. They passed on signing Corbin with all of their free money. They didn’t even make a move towards Verlander, Lester or Sale when they were there to be had. ,
An interesting sixth starters/swing guy. You can give starters an extra day or skip a start while on the road, if his splits continue. Keep him. Teams are paying 9 mil for relievers who pitch 50 innings.
A’s Billy Beane to get Sonny back. Mateo to Yankees, one for one straight up, c’mon…
They’re not keeping him into the season. Cashman is trying to gain leverage in negotiations because of his comments about Gray earlier.
Some GMs such as DET’s Al Avila will make announcements that a player is available. I wonder if its because he gets caught up in a media moment or that he believes that another fan base (including owners) puts pressure on their own team to acquire the available player.
The Yankees should just keep Sonny Gray. He’s not a HOF player but, he’s a proven starter. Futhermore, they are themselves leveraged now that C.C. Sabathia’s health is suspect.
The Yankees must think other teams will drop to their knees for them like Jeter did with Stanton.
Cashman isolates a player by keeping him off the postseason roster and tells everyone he’s not going to be back which forces his own hand to try to trade him, then sets too high an expectation, and is now probably forced to keep a disgruntled pitcher on staff that is paid too much, can’t pitch at home, and doesn’t want to be there.
Good job, Sprinkles.
When you’re asking for 800K for a ’95 Geo Metro, it’s no shock no one took you seriously.
If it’s true that Cashman asked for Taylor Trammell for Sonny Gray, I can’t imagine any GM wants to seriously engage with him on Gray. The cheese has fallen off the cracker.