4:38 PM: Per Kimbrel’s agent David Meter, via The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal, the report that Kimbrel would consider sitting out the 2019 season is false: “The report is wholly inaccurate and Craig looks forward to signing a new contract in the near future. Any report pertaining to his not playing this season is utterly false.”
2:27 PM: Jim Bowden of The Athletic cites “multiple GMs” in a report stating that reliever Craig Kimbrel’s asking price has not dropped from its lofty mid-offseason perch. In the same tweet, Bowden notes that “sources close” to the 30-year-old believe he would “consider” sitting out the 2019 season if the offers continue to fall well short of his ask.
The seven-time all-star, who’s fanned at least 13.5 men per nine in each of his nine MLB seasons, entered the offseason primed to set a new record for both length and total value of a relief-pitching contract. His initial ask, as reported by The Athletic’s Jayson Stark and ESPN’s Buster Olney, was a 6-year deal for at least $100MM, a figure that, in this market, had little chance to be met. By Christmas, the price was hovering near Aroldis Chapman’s record-setting 5-year, $86MM deal, though it doesn’t appear to have fallen further in the weeks to come.
Though the demands seem reasonable, especially for Kimbrel’s former club, the deep-pocketed, reliever-starved Red Sox, a competitive market has thus far not emerged around the flame-thrower. Some of the tepid interest can surely be owed to the righty’s age (31 in May) and his declining peripherals (a career-worst 28.2% ground-ball rate, 1.01 HR/9, and 3.13 FIP/xFIP), but Kimbrel has bucked the volatile-reliever archetype as well as any in the history of the game, and his average fastball velocity, long a marker for imminent decline, still sits at a sizzling 97.5 MPH.
The rest, it seems, is centered in the avant-garde approach to player evaluation, where short-term, high-average-annual-value deals are all the rage, and even the richest clubs snub their noses at name-brands and track records. Certain suitors, like the free-spending Phils, are holding firmly to their internal valuations – as they did, recently, with Manny Machado – while others, like the division-rival Braves, are playing poor. Boston, of course, would be on the hook for nearly $30MM in 2019 if it were to sign him to a deal approaching his reputed ask, and can be reasonably excused for its reluctance.
The rest of the league, though – especially would-be contenders with back-end needs, like the Indians, Twins, Angels, and Cubs – seems to have little defense.
allweatherfan
I want to start a campaign to get people to stop using “ask” as a noun.
aj_54
Co-signed
jorge78
Co-Co-signed…..
pr0ject2501
Tri-signed.
phenomenalajs
Yes, but will it be Ty-signed? It’s his article.
braveshomer
lol…is it getting used as a person, place or thing most often?
truthlemonade
It kind of grates on me as well, and I never use “ask” in that way. But, also, why not?
“Demand,” and “Request” are used as both nouns and verbs, and nobody says anything.
22Leo
That is because both of those words act as nouns and verbs but “ask” does not. If you do not believe me you can quickly confirm it on dictionary.com Using “ask” as a noun is just poor writing.
mookiessnarl
Or you can just accept that language evolves and move on with your life.
22Leo
Inocompetent writing is not evolution of language. That is just an excuse ignorant people use.
Ty Bradley
merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ask
ask noun
Definition of ask (Entry 2 of 2)
chiefly British, informal
: something asked for, requested, or required of someone —used especially in phrases like a big ask and a tough ask to say that what is being asked for or hoped for is difficult or unlikely
swinging wood
It’s kind of silly. Ask has been a noun in this context for a long time. It’s neither an evolution of the language nor is it poor writing to use.
EndinStealth
Some people just like to here themselves talk or in this read their own type.
bhambrave
*hear
🙂
jorge78
Badabing!
StlSwifty
Ya… so Craig kimbrel…
EndinStealth
I hear ya
fox471 Dave
Dear God! If you are going to be critical, please spell your criticism correctly.
ChiSoxCity
The word “ask” is indeed used as a noun in monetary exchange and other financial transactions.
Equinsu Ocha
its the same people that say “would of.” Drives me crazy
thecoffinnail
I salute you. You are good at writing. How I wish I was you. Unfortunately, some of us “ignorant” folks out here have strengths in other parts of our brains. Mine is math. I was taking calculus while you were struggling with algebra. However, I don’t need to feed my ego at others expense every chance I get.
socalbball
So the use of “ask” in this context is according to your own link both chiefly British, and informal. So perhaps it would be acceptable on cricketrumours.com
Prospectnvstr
Language doesn’t really evolve. SLANG changes. There’s a HUGE DIFFERENCE between the two.
Polish Hammer
Please also add “aks” used as a verb…
braveshomer
you mean like ‘I axed you a question’ as a verb lol?…being axed or axing something is kinda a verb, just sayin
stratcrowder
Post of the day.
Polish Hammer
Yup axed or aksed….
BlueSkyLA
And here I was trying to figure out the meaning of “snub their noses.”
I try to snub my nose sometimes too, but only when I have a bad cold. It never works then either.
bhambrave
I did a face plant in the den one time and snubbed my nose. Or was that stubbed?
BlueSkyLA
You rejected your nose? That wasn’t nice. I’m sure its feelings were hurt.
Snubbery can be snobbery, supposedly.
wiggysf
That depends, how stubby is your nose? And how stubborn are you in believing that you snubbed your nose?
wv17
I want to support you but that’s kind of a big ask.
clepto
well thats 2 minutes Ill never get back. My ask is you dont post again. Downvote graciously applied.
jorge78
Please language police please stop!!!!!
kirkydu
that’s a great ask to ask. .
SoCalBrave
that’s an unreasonable ask from you.
Jimcarlo Slaton
That would be a good get if you can make it happen.
Marc (Phillies Phan)
I am not saying I like it, but it is grammatically correct, as “ask” can be a noun or verb, You would have to petition it to the Word Committee at Webster LOL
brownbomber
Get a life
KingTiger
Has something happened to Brad Hand? I don’t understand the Indians being on this list. The others, absolutely.
Begamin
Because outside of Hand, their bullpen consists of AAAA arms
Michael Chaney
That’s exactly it. Hand could definitely close, but it’s not like he doesn’t have experience elsewhere too.
sufferforsnakes
Wrong, Begi.
jbigz12
How is he wrong? List your other “solid” relievers. You’ve got a bunch of prayers and Brad Hand. Salazar is the only guy down there who I could see being a legitimate weapon but that’s only if he’s healthy enough to pitch
sufferforsnakes
Well geez, let’s see. How about Oliver Perez, for starters?
jbigz12
Ollie was pretty bad for the 3 years prior. But he did toss up a great 31 innings last year. Congrats. You Might have 2 now. You going to tell me the outfield looks in good shape next?
sufferforsnakes
Tyler Clippard just came to camp, too. He’s solid.
Unlike most others, I’m not freaking out about the outfield. RF Naquin is healthy again, and launched one in his first at bat today. Martin is gonna be solid in CF, but LF is still a work in progress.
What I don’t understand is why folks such as yourself enjoy ripping into the Indians. It’s not like they’re a bad team. Their starters alone can carry them to the post season.
jbigz12
Because they won’t fill their obvious holes. And instead do anything they can to trim payroll. I don’t see why as an Indians fan you’d defend this garbage. It’s arguably the best chance you have left. Bauer is going to be gone next year and as good as anyone thinks McKenzie is gonna be he’s not going to be Bauer from the get go. You know your team won’t pony up to resign Lindor in a few seasons. Do you not see the opportunity that they’re squandering now? This is the time to strengthen your roster and really have a complete ball club. Not hope Tyler Clippard and Nick Witgren are good relievers. And that an outfield of Martin, Naquin, and who knows who else is good enough.
sufferforsnakes
Unlike you, I don’t see it as “the sky is falling”. The Indians are an organization that looks at more than just the here and now. This talk about their window closing is garbage.
Teams stay successful by constantly developing new players. The Tribe has gotten better at this in recent years. You obviously don’t follow their entire minor league system. I do, and from what I’ve seen they have some solid prospects moving through the system, pitching included. Oh, and Bauer wasn’t Bauer when he first came up, so that’s a nonsense comment.
True, Lindor may walk, but maybe he won’t. But if he does, Tyler Freeman is a guy to keep an eye on.
jbigz12
That Bauer comment clearly flew over your head. Of course Bauer wasn’t Bauer when he first came up. That’s my exact point with McKenzie. He’s not going to replace Bauer’s production. And look the Indians system might be strong. That’s all well and good but you have two in their prime MVP candidates on your roster and 3 of the top 10 pitchers in the AL, If not the entire game in your rotation. If you expect your farm to produce that later on that’s foolish. You have a bird in the hand right now. It’s a shame to not give them every opp to win now.
jbigz12
And if you want to comp the Indians v the rest of the AL central you’re going to look good. The twins are the only other team in the division with a chance to be over .500. You need to be comparing yourself to the Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox, and Astros. That’s the competition. That’s who you need to be better than. Their main concern shouldn’t be are we better than Min,KC, Det and the white Sox.
sufferforsnakes
Sure, flew right over my head. Geez, think highly of yourself!
Nobody can see the future, so how do you know it’s not possible for the farm system to produce just as good or even better players?
jbigz12
No. You clearly missed my point. No need to take offense to my comment. I was saying when McKenzie comes up he won’t replace Bauer. How do I know their system won’t produce 3 front of the line starters at the same time and 2 MVP candidates at the plate? Well, betting against any team doing that is a significantly better bet. Those kinds of things just don’t happen every couple of years. No matter how highly you think of your prospects/prospect evaluators.
sufferforsnakes
Bets are still basically an unsure thing, so you just proved my point.
jbigz12
Alright. Well I’m going to stop there….
gleybertorres25
Starters can carry the to the postseason. Ask Jacob deGrom about that
sufferforsnakes
Difference is the Tribe has 5 quality starters, Mets don’t. Yes, starters (plural) can carry them to the postseason.
Begamin
+jbigz
He will continue to miss your point forever and then get personally offended. I’ve seen it so many times with that guy as well as had first hand experience interacting with him.
sufferforsnakes
Oh, boo hoo. You’re the one who doesn’t get it, but that’s not surprising, since you don’t have a valid point.
Begamin
+suffer
I am not the one who is upset here nor am I the one who lacks understanding. Look at how many times people have to tell you things like “You missed my point”, “it flew over your head”. I swear, many of your interactions with people on here end up like that, and out interactions were no different.
Whats funny is you probably dont even know what makes an argument valid in the first place. An argument is only invalid if and only if the premises of the argument is true but the conclusion false. Any other scenario is valid. (Essentially, an argument is valid if the truth value of the premises guarantee the truth of its conclusion). So tell me what about my point was invalid? Simply disagreeing with it doesnt make it invalid. Even if am wrong, my point isnt invalid.
sufferforsnakes
Who’s upset? More so, why do you always insist on that saying I’m upset?
How about, since you obviously have no clue exactly how I’m feeling, that we cease on responding to each other?
Begamin
+insufferable
You said “boo hoo” as if I was upset. I told you that I am not the one who is upset. I didnt say you were upset. Though, at this point, you might as well be.
How about I dont care about how you feel.
lasershow45
Hate to break it to you, but Cleveland’s starters have been carrying them for a few years. And they carried them to the couch with no ring and no trophy. And now the rest of the team as a whole has taken a small step back.
And soon they’ll take a big step back unless the front office changes their ways.
That’s the point people have been trying to make to you. Time is now, and the FO is standing pat.
Yes I know they got to the WS in ’16, and they haven’t made a big move since, they completely and utterly CHOKED in ’17 and got swept in ’18. There’s a trend you’re not seeing
sufferforsnakes
Finally, a breakthrough!
jdgoat
How on earth do you disagree with that? The Indians look like they want to lose this year.
Polish Hammer
Seen it so many times yet you’ve just recently been noticed posting here. Makes one wonder what other names you post under. Hmmm…
andremets
Mets rotation is pretty good beyond just DeGrom. The difference is that the Indians’s can carry the team in the AL Central. In the NL East though…Nats have a similar good rotation for example.
Begamin
+Polish
I did not recently start posting here. Idk when i first started posting here but its been well over a year at the very least. I can remember commenting on the Yankees 2017-18 offseason outlooks talking about how i hope the Yanks get Ohtani. So you can go search for that if you want. I also only have one profile.
Dont assume xabial like traits and start caring about whether someone has multiple screen names or not. Makes you look like a paranoid fool who.
Polish Hammer
AAAA bullpen? They have a legit closer and could fill up the pen with various cheap arms but you think they ought to spend a fortune on yet another closer? If they were looking to spend that money they split it several ways and bring in a full pen of hired arms.
jbigz12
What arms would you sign now? I’m not saying I disagree with what you’re saying in bringing in more quantity v Kimbrel but when you let 95% of the quantity already be signed that doesn’t really work out. The Indians might need an outfielder more than a reliever but that doesn’t say much about the pen…..
its_happening
Indians should be looking at Kimbrel and Span. Both for 1 year deals. Indians think they have an open window, right? Maybe they should act like it.
Begamin
I acknowledged the closer. Hand is good. But he is their only really good reliever. However, I said that “Outside of Hand”, the bullpen consists of nothing but AAAA arms and journeymen. You even said this yourself (“various cheap arms”). There might be a few that end up being solid but they dont hold a candle to the actual good bullpens in the league. The bullpen consists of more than just a closed. Their bullpen struggled mightily last year and then lost both A. Miller and C. Allen to FA.
Compare the Indians bullpen to that of the Yankees, A’s, Astros, Cubs, Cardinals, Brewers, Mets, Dodgers. The Indians need bullpen help that moves the needle not just warm bodies that dont cost a whole lot. If they dont do much to patch the bullpen they’ll get dusted in the playoffs again. The only reason they make it to the playoffs is because their division is such a dumpster fire. Throw the Indians in the AL East or NL East and they’ll be sitting pat with the Rays (who won 90 games in a tougher division, mind you) watching the playoffs on TV.
sufferforsnakes
Hater.
Begamin
+suffer
Of what? If you think I hate the Indians, nevertheless care about them in the slightest, you are highly mistaken.
Polish Hammer
Kimbrel is one signing they don’t need. A power bat would help though.
Polish Hammer
Their rotation is elite, clearly #1 in baseball and they’ll carry the team again. But somehow non-Indians fans have a problem with that and sticking to a budget…SMH
Begamin
+Polish Hammer
Their bullpen led to a lot of their woes last year. Thats why they HAD to trade for Hand. Then they LOST A. Miller and C. Allen.
The rotation will carry the team again in the regular season but not the postseason. They need more hitting and one or two bullpen arms.
Polish Hammer
They’ll be fine. They didn’t have the budget or available pieces to go after to truly load up and Kimbrel makes little sense given their makeup. They could’ve increased the budget by $30 million and still not have enough.
Begamin
Theyll be fine getting ousted in the playoffs again I guess.
Polish Hammer
And how many teams won’t even make the playoffs? Of those making the playoffs only one won’t get ousted. You seem to really know how somebody else ought to root for their team and how that team should spend their money.
jbigz12
It’s okay to be critical of your team. You haven’t won one since 1948 which I’m imagining you weren’t around for either. If you’re fine with them being “good” but not good enough to win one, I don’t know what to tell you. Personally I’d be pissed if I had an off-season like this where my owner did nothing but slash dollars and leave me with a worse roster than the seasons before. Particularly when the Indians are so close to being good enough to be WS winners. Opportunities like this don’t come all the time.
I’m not even advocating they go blow the budget for Kimbrel. But you’re telling me they couldn’t afford Brad Brach, Greg Holland, etc. They would’ve been an improvement to Nick Wittgren and Tyler Clippard. And there’s absolutely nothing they could’ve done to improve what looks to be one of the worst outfields in baseball? That’s BS.
Begamin
+Polish Hammer
The only reason the Indians will make the playoffs is because of their weak division. Theyve been declining since 2016, made no improvements only have had people leave the team. I know only one team wont be a loser, but the Indians, in their current state, are most likely going to get beat when it matters…. again.
Dont get your panties in a wad, yeah?
kiddhoff
You go Kimbrell!!!
braveshomer
2nd that!
jorge78
Kimbrel is delusional…..
murphydog
Jim Bowden is an idiot. He’s horrible on mlb Xm radio, so it’s no surprise that he’s has false reports here.
bravesfan
Sitting out? Wouldn’t that do more harm than just taking a 1 year contract lol
kripes-brewers
What happens if he has a shoulder problem, as an example, in that one year contract? That’s a huge gamble for a player who was clearly looking for a 5-6 year term.
bhambrave
If he’s worried about an injury then he should take a three year deal.
bravesfan
Being away from the game for a year can be just as bad as getting injured. And if he does have injury problems, at least he has the money from that freaking contract. What if a car hits him and he can’t walk again and he is sitting out that year? Your hypothetical situation means nothing to me. Take money when you can get money. Especially when it is good. I’m not arguing that he should take a 1 year deal, I’m merely saying it’s better than sitting out and I can promise you there are enough multi year contracts worth a lot of money he can sure as heck get.
luvbeisbol
Yes.
KCJ
Tell that to LeVeon Bell
ShieldF123
Not even close to the same thing. Most MLB contracts are garunteed, NFL contracts are often not. Plus you can’t really compare a pitcher and a RB.
KCJ
You apparently missed the point. In both cases, an elite athlete is taking a year off from a sport and then trying to come back at the same level. It makes no difference if the contracts are guaranteed or not. Where did you get that from?
ShieldF123
It makes a world of difference. Different sport, different position, entirely different career trajectory, different perishable/non-perishable skills, etc. Taking time from one does not equal time from another, just a really bad and ignorant comparison.
Yossi Ronnen
Except for the fact that the market doesn’t exist for his lofty demands. He’s not Machado/Harper.
pustule bosey
yeah and sitting out just means that next year he will be a 31 year old so the price will go down further because any signing will be shorter if his more productive years by 1.
KCJ
Exactly
jbigz12
There’s no logical argument for sitting out of baseball. He isn’t leveon bell and forced to play on a one year deal. He’s a reliever with multi year offers. If he doesn’t like the dollars he can take a ST offer for more and try again. No way Kimbrel sits the year out. If he does, he’s truly an idiot.
El Kabong
So far, Craig Kimbrel has made $55 million in MLB salary. If he takes a one-year deal and gets hurt, he is still; set for life.
truthlemonade
Kimbrel has a real chance of taking the all time saves record. Sitting out at age 31 would be a terrible idea.
He should “bet on himself” and pursue the record.
fannclub6
Agreed. Let him sit out. Sort of like a little kid saying I’ll take my toys and go home.
He or more importantly the union may not like the money or years he gets, but what does that prove by not playing? Only hurts himself.
imgman09
Please no team pay that price,let him sit out if needed
oldoak33
“No team”? Why, so Kimbrel can be humbled, somehow making your life better?
bhambrave
Rather than sitting out, he should take a one-year pillow deal. I wouldn’t mind if the Braves offered 1/$19M.
junkmanj
I kinda get the feeling the Braves would do that type of deal.
Chicks Dig the Longball
A lot of teams would do that deal, but Kimbrel doesn’t seem to want to
walls17
Somebody that’s not the Red Sox please sign this guy
basebaIl1600
“Sources close to Kimbrel believe he will consider sitting out 2019 of the offers continue to fall well short of his ask” Is Craig stupid? That’s going to lessen his value.
arc89
He is doing a Sprewell. next up he will call $50 million chump change. Good old Sprewell sitting out and filling for bankruptcy a few years later.
luvbeisbol
Yes.
oldoak33
Those two things are not mutually exclusive.
surefirewinners
It is a lie.
Unless he wants to stay home with his daughter, who was sick last year, and the contract is a secondary issue.
surefirewinners
Red Sox fan here…. Kimbrel needs to recalibrate his asking price.
Maybe 3 years, 50 Million.
surefirewinners
Kimbrel (according to baseball reference) has made $55,164,000 in his career.
Why wouldn’t he take a 1 + 1 deal with a player option and a high AAV?
He might even be able to get $18-$20 MM for one year plus a $15-$20 MM player option.
petfoodfella
I’m sort of sure Atlanta would give him that right now (1+1) w/ higher AAV.
oldoak33
Why do people think that guys who finally get to free agency want to take one year contracts?
Payne Train
3 year 48 mil – with a 4th and 5th year team option for 15 mil each year
bruinsfan94 2
Going on strike
xabial
Kimbrel threatening sitting 2019 cuz contract demand?
Craig Kimbrel is the baseball version of Le’Veon Bell.
bhambrave
Except that he’ll be 31. Le’veon is 27.
Michael Chaney
Running backs age in dog years though so being 27 is older than it sounds
bhambrave
He’s coming back at 27. Kimbrel would be coming back at 32.
hiflew
Closers can pitch into their 40s if they want. Running backs are done by 30 most of the time.
nymetsking
typically not as closers
KCJ
It’s in poor judgement for either one of them to take a year off, regardless of how old they are
imgman09
Sorry no comparison with Relievers in Baseball to Running Backs in Football in any which way A-Z ,try again
Chicks Dig the Longball
Actually, it is a pretty apt comparison. Both Running Backs and relievers are seen a replaceable by FO’s. Relievers are baseball Running backs.
ShieldF123
No comparison at all. Injury rates aren’t close, contracts are structured totally different (NFL players do t typically get garunteed $ the way baseball players do, and it’s far more rare to see catastrophic injuries in baseball like you do in football.
arc89
I do not want to hear anyone blame teams for being cheap. No GM in his right mind would spend that much on a closer. Note to his agent don’t promise something that nobody would give your client.
kripes-brewers
I’m not picking a side here, but think about a team who has a shot at a wild card, and their flawed closer blows 4 saves. What is a fan going to say about the GM then, knowing Kimbrel was out there? It’s a long season, and that’s the beauty of baseball. Lots of games, but every win is very important. Hard to put a price on that, especially with the track record that Kimbrel brings.
AtlSoxFan
Well last year kimbrel blew 5 saves so he may be worse than that hypothetical flawed closer.
Kimbrel is a real talent… BUT he had a spike in HRs, WHIP, and his FIP hit what had to be close to a career high.
Don’t ask for versatility either – 4, 5, or 6 out saves are beyond a nailbiter, you’ll be down to the bone b the end.
And non-save situations? Guy struggles to perform at replacement level more often than not.
Sign him to be a 3 out save guy, hope that the tipping pitches thing was as deep as it went, and cross your fingers that the spike in last year’s stats were an abberation. Otherwise, no, don’t give him 15mil/yr.
lasershow45
You mean minus the Yankees who have already gone there at 86 million. Dodgers with Jansen for 80 million, and San Fran with Melancon at 62 million?
Kimbrel has a better track record than all 3.
It’s like saying Trout shouldn’t ask for more than Harper or Machado.
kiddhoff
Wow! That’s bold! I mean, threatening to sit out 2019, leaving millions on the table. Now that’s bold! Wait….is bold the right word?
Colorado Red
stupid is the word that comes to mind.
Polish Hammer
Certainly when you walk away from many millions you won’t get that season back and who knows how much rust with a season on the shelf.
Brewer67
GREED
Oxford Karma
Half the teams are bad, the good teams need 3 or 4 top relievers. Paying 18/20 million is bad for business. He should have done an extension after 2017. Only season of the past fourthat has been outstanding. Can probably get 4 for 60
jorge78
The Rockies would agree…..
SabrinasDaddy
Entitlement seems rapant in today’s game. You are only worth what somebody is willing to pay. To react like a 2nd grader “I’m taking my ball home, unless” reveals more about Kimbrel than the saber-metric FO’s…
goldenmisfit
What is he smoking? He literally went to pieces in the playoffs and he wants to eat clips Chatman’s contract? LOL!
bhambrave
Auto-correct’s a b*tch, ain’t it?
chicagofan1978
I don’t know who this Chatman is, but I don’t think he wants to eat his clips.
Polish Hammer
It’s Chapman eating cl*ts…must be an Orange is the New Black reference…
braveshomer
Closers are like kickers in football, no one values them enough until they have a bad one. He’s one of the best in the league and league history and deserves to be paid like it…I still can’t believe he’s only 30, I thought he was older
nonadhominem
No one is saying he doesn’t deserve to be paid. The question is: How much and for how many years?
He and his agent obviously value his services at a much higher level than do teams.
He is within his rights to ask, and they are within theirs to refuse.
It’s business.
Goose
Yeah, good luck with that Kimbrel. Wanting and worth are TWO different things.
MetsFanaticDanny
I agree, these players nowadays are soo freaking greedy. You’re trying to tell me that if some team offers you a 4 yr, $70 million contract, you’re going to turn it down??? That’s life changing money. Players these days need to see that owners in baseball are a lot smarter and realize that there’s no need to overpay for players. It’s unbelievable how the mindset of some of these players work.
oldoak33
You people are daft. Players holding out for more is what moves the needle. One million is a lot of money compared to the average salary of an American. Should Kimbrel sign for one million just because it’s a lot of money?
MetsFanaticDanny
@oldoak33
Spoken like a true moron. No player and I mean NO PLAYER, should get paid more than $17 million a season to pitch one maybe two innings max a game. That’s just bad business and ludicrous. Too many athletes are greedy and have forgotten the fact that they have the unique honor of playing a game as a profession while making millions of dollars. It’s absurd.
oldoak33
MFD
I appreciate your virtue signaling, but it’s not incumbent upon a human being to take less than they can get in a given format just because you perceive them to be lucky for what they have.
I think getting paid to sit at a desk all day, make phone calls and punch a calculator while making a six figure salary is pretty lucky, but people still ask for raises.
One of my favorite hobbies is cooking. I derive a lot of pleasure from culinary arts, but if a world class chef decides he/she could make more money for their services I’m not going to chastise them for being greedy about something that’s fun and fulfilling from my perspective. Demanding they check their privilege.
We live in a country where the poorest among us are in a better position than millions of others on the planet. If you make $32k a year, that puts you in the top 1% of earners on the planet. So should you not strive for more and try to earn more just because some Joe on the internet thinks you’re greedy because you have so much while so many others suffer?
Are you also forgetting who pays players salaries? The billionaire owners will certainly not be putting more money in YOUR pocket if Kimbrel signs for $10MM as opposed to $18MM. How do YOU benefit in any way from a player getting paid less? You don’t.
I already posed this question, but what do you think Kimbrel’s market is based on his comps (Chapman, W Davis, Jansen)?
Jake1972
It would be a mistake for him to sit the season out. His market value would be less and being out for a season at his age is going to bring a lot of question marks.
His best bet is to sign a one year deal with a player option.
If he has another All Star season he can opt out and test the market again.
bhambrave
Do one of those multi-option deals. He gets a two year deal plus a single year player option, and his team gets a three year option.
bluejays92
If I was him I’d want to play as much as possible if for no other reason than to pad my legacy. He’s made loads of money already, now has a WS ring, seven All-Star appearances, and a 36 save campaign (very realistic as he’s averaged that amount across the past three seasons) in 2019 would shoot him past five players to move him into 9th all time on the career saves list; just 145 more saves would tie him with Lee Smith for third on the list, and that’s pretty realistic, too. Tack on a few more All-Star nods and he’ll be a Hall of Famer. I mean I know that baseball is something where your time frame to cash in is very limited, but I don’t see why someone in his position wouldn’t be content to take something more reasonable like $15 mil a year over three seasons and then re-enter the market to stay on a team like Boston who could very well win a few more titles in a window of about the next 3-5 seasons; with New York really being the only serious threat in the East at least you know Boston will likely be going to the Wild Card Game at worst.
xXabial
Go Craig & make a point if you do sit out!!! in the end, you did ot for nothing as you just hurt your value money amd teammate wise.
Aaron Sapoznik
Yikes! To think we have a couple of commenters here bent out of shape with the use of “ask” as a noun in the article. What say you, dragqueen?
baseball10
Fake news
xXabial
fake response
braveshomer
fake comment
nymetsking
fake post
mike156
Very few closers have maintained elite effectiveness into their mid to late 30’s. Kimbrel could be one, but that’s a ton of money to give for a position that occasionally can be filled by some flame-throwing converted starter who might not even be arb-eligible yet.
Senioreditor
30 year old relievers who sit out a season don’t get more money the next season…,lol.
Corazon5
Ill be in the minority here but I have respect for the fact that Kimbrel is sticking to his guns. Is he worth 5 years 86 million at this point? Debatable. However even in his down years he has been one of the best relievers in the game since he arrived in the big leagues, and he deserves to get paid. I don’t have a clue who is gonna sign him but you can guarentee that there will be a team out there who at some point this season is gonna wish they had.
Jack Marshall
He deserves to be paid, he does not deserve to be paid whatever he wants. The guy pitches 60 innings a year. He’s simply not worth what he’s asking, even if he doesn’t decline, as the odds say he probably will.
oldoak33
So based on his comps (Chapman, Wade Davis, and Jansen) how much does he deserve?
Comrade Tipsy McStagger
I know this may sound like a conspiracy to some, but I think this is an act of collusion and owner “groupthink” in shaping markets in the now and near future (maybe hoping to trend long term). I don’t care about the merits or strength of Kimbrel’s expectations. I think the lack of signings of many legitimate stars and starters (or some not being able to wait it out and going to a minor league signing) by many of the owners is a way to turn the fans against the players and have them rooting for the real money makers — the owners. Any thoughts on this, people?
Instead of people getting triggered by my comment here, can we please have a civil discussion. Names and insults will be ignored.
Aaron Sapoznik
I’m with you pal.
Comrade Tipsy McStagger
To sum up: Owners are intentionally not coming to the table and meeting anywhere near market demand because they are trying to drive up profits by signing players for cheap. And the owners, I believe, are willing to scare the players by even programming fans to turn against players (they are greedy, crazy, insane, selfish), and coming to the side of owners. (who for some reason are not greedy, insane, selfish.) This in addition to other fiduciary tactics and PR stunts and perhaps wholesale collusion.
Comrade Tipsy McStagger
And I do think that fans who believe players have gotten selfish, unrealistic and greedy do have some excellent points to make. I just think that things are much more complicated than they let on, and the truth probably includes my points above. I know things are not black and white, and don’t wish to present this. I just believe fans are getting heavily programmed to side with the owners against the players. And my question is: why? And who is doing that programming? And how is the programming being laid out?
nonadhominem
TMc, I disagree on the “programming” point. I think most fans are fairly rational, and have gotten on board with analytics and aging curves
blogs.fangraphs.com/pitcher-aging-curves-starters-…
They want their teams to be able to compete year in and year out, and now realize that many of the mega contracts that have been signed in the past produced a lot of dead money. (Do I really need to list all of them? )
It’s not that they “side” with the owners, it’s that they don’t want to see their team’s ability to compete hampered by bad contracts, and a lot of the older players want to get paid into their decline years.
The unfairness of the system is not that teams don’t want to pay declining players anymore – the unfairness is that players have to wait so long to either become FA’s or get to arbitration.
Many people here have focused on the 6 – 7 years it takes a player to become an FA after making it to the show, but that’s only half of the equation. Players don’t become minor league FA’s until after 6 years, so an 18 year old kid can get drafted by a team, be kept in the minors for 6 years and not become a free agent until he’s 31 – the team can control him for 13 years. Personally, I think that’s a crock.
I am not sure if the CBA covers minor league free agency, but if it is covered and players want to get paid earlier, they need to negotiate a shorter path to free agency for minor leaguers as well. It will force teams to put up or shut up, or pay them as minor leaguers while they are still developing, lest another org come in and snap them up before they are ready for MLB. By forcing compensation down the food chain, it would also probably force greater comp at the MLB level, even in the early years.
One thing I think that players can do in the next CBA to get the tide to rise is to demand that the MLB minimum be doubled, or at least raised to $1MM. That would raise the salary floor for teams, and insure that even younger players are paid more fairly for their production.
jorge78
Good points!
hetzel01
Market demand isn’t there. The luxury tax kills some teams from playing in this market. Owners stuck with horrible contracts are finally realizing why!!! Why would you give him 5 years at his age? He should sign for 2 years then do it again…How many teams are really interested in an $18 million closer? No rebuilding teams, no smaller market teams, no team currently with a closer…the Red Sox need him but he’d cost them another $14 million in luxury tax. Now you in essence have a $32 million closer…nope. It’s not a baseball decision only anymore, it’s a business decision!
Comrade Tipsy McStagger
I don’t doubt that this plays a role. Teams get burned by big contracts. But that has ALWAYS been the case. It hasn’t stopped teams in the past from signing the big contracts. What, suddenly owners got wise? Come on, that is a bit too simplistic. Too many are thinking like an economist right now (who by the way are pretty bad at reading and predicting the market, or more often, accepting the market) — believing that human history and wisdom itself exists in some kind of linear progressive line from stupid caveman thinking to that of the modern supergenius. The market has fluctuated all over the place in the past — it goes in cycles, not some kind of progressive linear line. So once again — what makes it different this time? I think it is, in part, a collusive act to drive down the asking price of players in order to increase the level of profits. It is the oldest trick in the book when if comes worker-owner relations. Does no one else see this? Can I prove it? No. No one can ever prove collusion until after the fact. But, to me, this is clearly going on.
nonadhominem
” It hasn’t stopped teams in the past from signing the big contracts.”
You are correct, but that’s the point isn’t it – with analytics and aging curves teams are smarter now, and it IS stopping them from signing the big contracts with guys in their 30’s.
It’s not collusion – it’s rational.
THE MLBPA needs to focus on getting guys paid earlier in their careers, and needs to stop selfishly ignoring and f******g minor leaguers in the CBA. The age of the big contract to a guy 32 years old is a thing of the past, and it’s probably better for baseball.
Get the young guys paid.
jorge78
See my previous comment about getting smarter FO’s….
hetzel01
Only a handful of teams have handed out big, long term deals. It looks to me as if many have learned from their mistakes. I’ll go one step farther and say teams don’t want to negotiate with Boras and other hard core agents. I would offer no more than a 5 year deal to any FA. Agents want player opt outs…if I were going to give a player an opt out after 5 years on a 10 year deal, then I would want an opt out as well after year 6.
The next CBA is going to get ugly…
outinleftfield
If you are paying attention to what the players union reps like Wainwright and Verlander are saying then you know that a strike could come long before 2022 when the next CBA is negotiated.
refereemn77
They can’t legally strike before the end of the CBA. If they did, MLB could just fire the players
bhambrave
They can legally strike any time. The teams can withhold their pay. It would be a PR disaster if they struck in the the middle of the current CBA.
Tim Newport
I’m sure there are players all over baseball who have just signed what they consider very decent contracts, players who are finally going to see more money than they’ve seen in their lives, who will be happy to throw it away so has-been Adam Wainwright can get another huge chunk of change – one he doesn’t deserve. Their wives will say “honey, we HAVE to give up our chance to finally be financially set for a long time…forget the years in the minors, moving every few months, living out of a suitcase…we HAVE to give it all up because Adam Wainwright wants more money!”
AtlSoxFan
Why does nobody advance the idea that there are more people in the world today, more kids that came up playing baseball than ever before, thus more potential talent in the draft – ie more talented kids able to be selected maki ng drafts deeper, thus more young players available to enter the mlb system.
Of course you cant hang around as long as you used to as a mlber.
If a team can pay a 23 year old $600k for say, 77/100 talent level, or, keep a 34 year old for $13 mil on a 77/100 talent level, who do you choose?
In the past, you didn’t have that 23 year old as often. Now you do. A team with money (yanks/sox/dodgers/cubs/etc/etc) isn’t going to go out and say hey, let’s build a team of ALL 33-40 year old players because we can afford it, leave the young affordable guys to the likes of the As, Rays, etc. And a team with relatively poor finances isn’t going to overpay when cheaper options are available.
I haven’t seen anyone of the anti-owner “piece of the pie” argues throw out any accurate figures on how much teams actually spend on higher levels of scouting, analytics, etc either. Remember, if you don’t have business experience a $60k/yr scout costs about $110k/yr after paying payroll taxes, UI state fees, benefits, etc. Not to mention expenses, travel costs, technology infrastructure, etc…
jorge78
Is it a conspiracy that all the front offices got smarter at the same time with analytics?
chalk73
Why hate the money makers? Making money is not evil. If a player wants to sit out because he thinks he deserves more, it’s his right. If the owners don’t want to pay so they keep more money, it’s their right. It works like this in all professions. I don’t think it is collusion, I think owners are making wiser business decisions. A few short years ago Pujols signed a 10 year $240,000,000 contact and is certainly not worth it today, but it was simply a business decision.
chalk73
If Arte didn’t make that stupid decision he would have money to make this stupid decision. I hope he got all his stupid decisions out of the way.
Comrade Tipsy McStagger
chalk73 — Labor relation history, including that of baseball labor relations, can come in handy. While market forces clearly play a role, so do acts of collusion, proven and not. A quick link to some recent acts of collusion via the simplicity of wikipedia. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Baseball_collus…
I don’t hate the “money makers.” I don’t even know what that means. I see the players as the money makers, not the owners. I don’t go to see the owner sit in his penthouse box (that isn’t exciting). I don’t turn on the TV with the hopes they will flash the camera on the owner. I go and see the players. They are the money makers. Or maybe I go to enjoy the stadium experience. Most of these stadiums are paid for by you, the taxpayer. So, yes, I don’t hate on the money makers, for they are the players.
You think the owners gave you 40 hour work weeks, the end of child labor, and vacation pay, sick pay, holiday pay, a minimum wage? Who is it that replaces jobs here with jobs overseas, so that none of these requirements need to be met?
Market forces will always be the default logic, as if the “free market” exists in a vacuum. It doesn’t. Much of what is stated by other posters above is PART of the story — but there is a story missing — one that includes incredible manipulation on all kinds of levels. That is also the history of economic forces and “market forces.”
chalk73
I think you missed my point. Both the players and owners are the money makers. Sorry I triggered you and caused you to go off on a political tangent . I’m just trying to have a civil discussion like you suggested. No need to lecture me on the “free market” or to speak down to me by suggesting that I go to Wikipedia to learn about corruption.
Comrade Tipsy McStagger
I didn’t get triggered, I can assure you of that. But thank you for thinking of me getting all hot and bothered. And the political aspect is essential. Economics and the market are political. You must agree with me on that, right? And I didn’t miss your point. I included your point, so how I could I miss it? I just wanted you to understand mine. My point is complexity, while so many others just want to point their fingers and only blame the market (and/or the selfishness of the players). And I certainly wasn’t trying to lecture you. It’s not my place to teach. I just wanted to throw you a few nuggets that I thought you were missing from your narrative. It is up to you if you wish to read about them or not. Have a good evening chalk.
P.S. — It was collusion I was wishing you read on wiki. It is essential to this discussion, don’t you think?
teddyjackeddy
I get so sick of hearing guys say ” I don’t go to a game to see the owners”. Well you know what? There would be no game to attend or watch without men with that type of capital, and investments of that magnitude deserve a large ROI. Please STFU with that dumbazz argument.
Jack Marshall
Yeah, here’s a thought: it’s a ridiculous theory. There aren’t “many” players who haven’t been signed that are still reliable major leaguers, and those that haven’t been signed have turned down offers worth millions of dollars. Kuechel and Kimbrel are seeking big money long term deals after down seasons. Neither should get a long-term deal.
Core4
Why in the world would anyone give this guy a 6yr deal anyways? He wasent even all that good Last yr. At least not at a level I’d be trying to give this guy a record deal.. most red Sox fans I know, which is a ton, didn’t even want to resign this guy, period.. some of these players are crazy. Sit out then. Who gives a crap if Craig Kimbrel dosent play this yr? Oh ya, no one
Corazon5
If the Red Sox had the money then I would absolutely be rooting for them to resign him. Not to a 6 year deal of course, but the bullpen would look considerably better with Kimbrel closing. Barnes was good last year but who knows if he can repeat his performance this year.
franksouze
if we couldnt afford Kelly we sure in hell wont sign Kimbrel – i was really hopeing we could work something out with JK.
Corazon5
Oh yeah it’s never gonna happen. I didn’t mind Kelly but for a 3 year contract the Dodgers can have him.
bravesfan
Still hope by braves are trying to get him. I know we won’t offer the money he wants but we should still have an open contract at all times to him until he signs.
nonadhominem
What is most amusing – yes amusing – is Ty’s attempt to chastize teams because of their reluctance/refusal to meet Kimbrel’s contract demands. It’s as if it’s a moral issue.
The apparent attitude is that because some teams “can” afford him, that they should meet his asking price – no questions asked. That is, because he wants it you should pay him, regardless of whether the team believes he’s worth it.
But it doesn’t logically follow that just because Kimbrel wants it that it makes sense for that particular team, even if they have it to spend.
Sure Kimbrel’s FB velocity is still there, but he had a not-so-good postseason, and maybe teams that were scouting him saw something.
He’s also headed into his decline years but wants record money and years. It makes sense to me that teams don’t want to sink that kind of money into a guy that only pitches a third of the innings if a SP, no matter how good he happens to be.
Jack Marshall
Bingo. The article is absurd.
ShieldF123
I don’t like your opinion. I’m sitting this article out!
Payne Train
I’m tired of these guys wanting to get paid for their past – then they come off of a bad season going into free agency and then they think everyone should pay them for their numbers they had during their prime … then cry about teams not wanting to pay them in their declining years … (declining, I mean mathematically their not as good of years)
outinleftfield
You are a prophet and can predict the future? All you can pay on is past performance.
batty
Every time i see/read/hear a player willfully considering sitting out a season because he wants more money/years, i think of Jermaine Dye. He, at 35, believed he was at superstar status and wanted to be paid at that level. He had a good, not great, final season but didn’t get the offers he wanted and 2 years later he announced his retirement.
I understand it’s apples to oranges, when comparing the two, but egos are a dangerous thing when it comes to money.
ShieldF123
Better comp than the Le’Veon Bell comparison everyone has been throwing about.
Dye is one of those guys you forget was around and a damn good hitter for a few years
cscd1111
Every single team in baseball is waiting for Kimbrel’s ask to come down. If it doesn’t come down, Kimbrel’s A should sit down until he decides to reduce his ask.
VegasSDfan
Relievers pay is going down. I can see him signing 3/50
outinleftfield
Relievers have recieved record amounts the past 3 seasons.
Gene325
I suspect he’d take less years and less money than he’s demanding publicly, but that he’s feeling aggrieved by the Red Sox’s failure to pursue him and would take fewer years and less money from another team than he’d be willing to accept from the Sox. He shouldn’t let emotions shape his decision, should temper his demands and sign a 3-year deal with Boston.
jorge78
Don’t put words in his brain…..
doxiedevil
I would give him 100 million for 20 years, something like Bruce Sutter received, end of problem lol.
jorge78
What is so wrong about deferred money, I ask?
That way your ex wives can’t blow it all at once!
But I’m not bitter…..
RedSox4Life4ever
If he doesn’t have a multi-year offer to his liking he should take a one year $18-$19 mil deal. He can re-enter free agency next year with no qualifying offer attached, and can establish that whatever flaw that was discovered in the playoffs has been addressed.
whyhayzee
Kimbrel is the best in the game. Even at his worst at the end of last year he did not blow the games. He just made them closer than they should have been. Teams that are paying big contracts are putting the players out of business. I think the players have to start recognizing that this is what is happening. For free agency to truly work players should be able to play for a team of their choice and not feel that they must make more than any other player who is comparable. It’s a simple pyramid scheme. Cannot be maintained. Unless the fans want to pay $1,000 per game.
jbigz12
I don’t think you understand pyramid schemes.
jorge78
Quiet! I just sold him a bridge…..
Chicks Dig the Longball
It’s not a pyramid scheme. It’s a funnel system!
whyhayzee
I’m an actuary. I understand exactly what I’m talking about.
Chicks Dig the Longball
I know an actuary. She wanted to be a accountant but wasn’t smart enough.
whyhayzee
Same. I dropped out of Accounting 101 with an F. One math degree and 10 actuarial exams later, I’m an actuary. Go figure.
bradthebluefish
Teams used to overspend on players and now teams are standing strong in being fiscally responsible. However, players and their unions are pissed because they want to always top last years contracts. Can we not have a couple of down years without blowing it up?
bigpoppapump
Yankees…..
Illusionist
I said it once and i’ll say it again . Kimbrel/Agent you’re crazy if you want an average of 20$ millon for a closer. I can get at least a few quality RP’s for that price, a quality or even star player for that, and also a top 3 SP for that. Because guess what? You don’t get into save situations without having quality SP, RP, and hitting in the first place. Even if ticket sales and revenue could go up by signing this player, which I admit is a possibilty, it still doesn’t address how greedy players can become during the negotiation process. This is especially a big red flag for small market teams who need SP and Hitters before even thinking about a closer. You’re out of your mind asking for that, so go ahead and sit out,
jbigz12
Sounds like Craig has a ten cent head. Take a high AAV ST deal and bet on yourself if you’re not satisfied with what’s out there. I’m sure he’d have no problems finding a suitor if he wanted a 1/20. Take the approach Trevor Bauer says he’s going to do and sign a one year deal every year. If you’re pitching at a high level you’ll get all the money you’re asking for now if the contracts with security aren’t to his liking.
thinkblech
“Boston, of course, would owe the righty nearly $30MM in 2019 if it were to sign him to a deal approaching his reputed ask, and can be reasonably excused for its reluctance.”
Kimbrel doesn’t get nearly 30 mil, but that would be the cost associated with signing him to said ask.
bhambrave
Yep. What is their luxury tax? 50%?
thinkblech
42%, and they’re around 5 mil from the 75% threshold
franksouze
As a lifetime Sawx fan I am grateful for his contributions, and enjoyed watching him save a ton of games, unfortunately, I believe his turning 31 In May pushes the max limit on a long term contract to three years and maybe 50 Mil if he’s fortunate.
IjustloveBaseball
I really don’t think sitting out a year would change a whole lot.
From Kimbrel’s perspective — it is a bummer since both Chapman and Jansen signed deals in excess of 80m each, when he [Kimbrel] has actually been better than both. But it has to be considered that Chapman/Jansen were both younger than Kimbrel is now at the time they signed their deals.
carlos15
He’s gonna sit out the season…lol ok
luvbeisbol
Yes.
heater
Counter-production if I’ve ever heard it. Go ahead Craig. You show them owners.
stansfield123
You haven’t heard it, because it’s not a word. It’s counter-productive.
And that’s not what would show the owners. That would embarrass the PA leadership (it would essentially be a one man strike, because the PA leaders failed to protect the players’ interests to his satisfaction)
And then the PA leadership would punish the owners for it, in the next CBA negotiations. And that would cost the owners a LOT more money than it would to make a few changes right now, and move this free agent market along (for instance, get rid of the penalties for signing guys who refused a QO….that, by itself, would probably close the gap between Kimbrel and his suitors.)
stansfield123
The PA is terrible. They are agreeing to all kinds on nonsense Manfred wants to test out (like that dumb pitch clock idea), and getting nothing in return.
Here’s an idea: from now on, the answer is an automatic no to every suggestion Manfred has, until there’s a deal to get rid of the QO penalties….because they’re playing a big role in holding up deals.
And yes, I understand that’s not the reason why Kimbrel isn’t getting 6 years, $100M. But it IS the reason why he’s not getting a more reasonable offer with a player opt-out after a year. He would take that, especially if it’s something like a $5M signing bonus, plus 5 years, $75M. And a team would be okay with giving him $20M for 2019, and then letting him opt out….if they didn’t also lose a draft pick and international pool space. It’s not worth giving up so much for just one year of Kimbrel.
dixoncayne
Why would you sit out? At least take a lucrative 1 year deal
stansfield123
No one wants to give him a lucrative one year deal. He comes with QO penalties attached. So it’s not worth taking on those penalties, just to have a reliever for one year.
theoepsteinhof
Hope he sits out this year! Everyone loves greedy millionaires.
ReverieDays
Ah, another great job of reporting made up mumbojumbo.
Rich Hill’s Elbow
C’mon Twins this is your guy.
Chicks Dig the Longball
Writes article. An hour later. Whole article is false. Media.
jonnymac2for1
Jim Bowden is an idiot.
Pedro Cerrano's Voodoo
I’m sure this threat to “sit out” is posturing. But I still feel he’s overplaying his hand on this. Just accept a 3-4 year deal with the right AAV bro, you’re 31 going into this season.
John Smith
Does anyone remember Doubleheader’s and $1 beers?
The Human Toilet
Don’t tell me the great Jim Bowden is wrong? This Never happens!!
Shocking!!
GB85
4 years,60m is completely reasonable.
SG
I especially love the earliest comments as this discussion should be about ask as a noun because the topic is idiotic.
There are other teams out there other than the Red Sox and nobody has signed Kimbrel so what does that tell you?
They don’t want to pay the price he is “axing” for.
There is also likely a drag on his offers due to the qualifying offer.
I believe if Kimbrel waits until after the draft the Red Sox don’t get a compensatory draft pick? Can anyone out there please confirm that that is the way it works that knows the answer?
So why wouldn’t the Red Sox try to negotiate a lower compensatory pick with a team that wants to sign Kimbrel and get something for Kimbrel rather than zero after the June draft, if my assumption is correct and Kimbrel is waiting until after the draft to sign by the Red Sox and Kimbrel and teams interested in signing him?
And the Red Sox don’t seem too keen to sign him and pay the penalty.
So I’m guessing this is a game of chicken?
fs54
True about signing after draft.
SG
Thank you.
So it’s to Kimbrel’s advantage to sign in June after the draft.
Or for Boston to negotiate a draft pick or 2 down with a team that wants to sign him.
Boston has said he is a likely Hall of Famer and will not likely resign Kimbrel in 2019 probable due to luxury tax and draft pick considerations.
No one in Boston or in the press seems to know of a creative way to resign Kimbrel and not have it cost them plenty.
So tell me where is goes?
I’m “axing” you?
LOL
bravos4evr
only compensatory picks are tradeable. and even then you have to trade stuff for them. And the losing team in free agency does not get the winning team’s pick anymore either. So Boston could negotiate nothing.
Boogaloo
6 years/$100 million? Lol
This guy is delusional.
If he gets 4/60 that will be a mistake for some team.
Only chance he has to get even that is philly.
fs54
I usually side with players but this is one instance where I am not so sure a player deserves what they are asking for.
macstruts
The fact is baseball teams have finally gotten smarter than the players. A 3 out pitcher who pitchers 70 IP a year is not worth as much as players think they are worth.
AidanVega123
Yep
Cardinal
5 years for 15 million for 75 total would likely get a deal; Cardinals should consider. Teams should get 3 quality years and 2 potential years as a set up 8th inning pitcher.
Koamalu
Isn’t Bowden the same guy that said that Machado was signing with the Phillies? If he says it, its usually wrong. Same with Nightengale. My son did a search in January of every free agent “prediction” by Nightengale for the past 7 years and could not find one time where he was right. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while. It’s almost like the teams and agents are purposely giving Bowden and Nightengale false info because they know they will repeat it with no double checking with other sources.
SG
Yes, but don’t forget a blind squirrel has an advantage.
They can smell ………..
SFGiantsGallore
One of the few jobs in America that doesn’t pay you for past performance. Also, one of the few jobs that pays you millions of dollars to play a game lol
SG
I’m asking anyone that may know the answer to this?
If the Red Sox sign/resign Kimbrel in 2019 and for 2020-2022 (which is most likely what he’s going to get somewhere) what is the estimated damage to the Red Sox in 2019 if they resign him?
Assuming Kimbrel gets what he’s logically worth?
Say somewhere between $60-90M total and for at least $16-17M/year for 4/5 years?
SFGiantsGallore
Once they hit their tax threshold they’ll be paying $0.75 for ever dollar spent, so $1.75 if I’m right. So $16M-$17M would equate to $28M-$29.75M. Unless in that time they’re able to shed payroll one year and bring down the tax penalties.
SG
The penalty would only be for the 2019 season, assuming they get under the tax threshold next year and in years beyond.
So here’s the question?
Do they pay extra money for one year and keep their talent and keep a proven winner together or do they think they can get comparable talent for less money or get by without it?
Jack Marshall
The Red Sox bullpen is deep and talented, and these kinds of articles are pro-free agent propaganda. Every closer has to get the first chance to close.. Barnes has the stuff to close. Brasier, in exactly half the innings Kimbrel pitched, had much better stats and pitched better than Craig in October. If Thornburgh is healthy, he’s a solid closer candidate. The Sox bullpen is so crowded Workman is on the bubble, and he’s solid.
I expect them to pick up an affordable lefty, but the panic over their bullpen is nonsense. And I, for one, will enjoy not sweating out every Kimbrel save, with 25 pitches an inning, multiple walks and 3-2 counts. I’ll take Koji’s style every time.
Marc (Phillies Phan)
mmmph – Jim Bowden is never ever wrong. Kimbrel’s agent must be incorrect. /sarcasm
Yep it is
Don’t blame any team not signing. The demands and dollars are ridiculous. 31 years old come on. Let him sit at home and watch games on T.V. Greed from players like him have killed the enjoyment. Get up and go to work daily like the rest of us and you would sign for “ a paltry” $1,000,000. Get over yourselves already.
Moneyballer
Oh make no mistake – He’ll take a high annual 1-2 year deal before ever considering taking a year off. Taking a year off would be a terrible decision. I think the demand (contending teams without closing options) just is not where it needs to be in order to get considerable bidding for his services. It’ll be interesting to see where he eventually lands and on a short term deal a trade at the deadline to a needy team would appear likely if said team is not in potential playoff position at that time.
Melchez
So, does Bowden get credit for the scoop that Kimbrel would sit out 2019? Maybe people should take note that these guys make up insider information just to make themselves look good.
brandons-3
He’s worth the McCutchen contract. Three years guaranteed with a mutual fourth.
Moneyballer
Pitchers and Hitters are different animals. Risk of injury is much higher with pitchers as is performance decline. Long term deals with pitchers are not very desirable as history has shown time and again to prove troublesome to mlb teams.
GarryHarris
I would like to see the poll we filled out for free agent predictions. I can’t remember where I had Craig Kimbrel going. I don’t think I’m doing very well.