Only one game back in the NL Central but featuring one of baseball’s worst farm systems, the Brewers are kicking around ideas to address their beleaguered pitching staff. Per Ken Rosenthal of the Athletic, Milwaukee has had internal discussions about moving one of its productive big leaguers, Yasmani Grandal or Mike Moustakas, to bolster other areas of the roster. As Rosenthal notes, each player is scheduled to hit free agency after this season.
To be clear, such a move would not be part of a broad sell-off. Instead, Milwaukee would consider moving a veteran position player only to add to a starting rotation in desperate need of aid. Injuries to ace Brandon Woodruff and Opening Day starter Jhoulys Chacin in the past week have dealt a blow to what was already the roster’s weak point, while Gio Gonzalez left Friday’s start with shoulder tightness (although fortunately he appears to have avoided another serious injury). Even with Woodruff’s stellar contributions, Milwaukee’s rotation ranks 20th in park-adjusted ERA and 17th in park-adjusted FIP. The current crop of Gonzalez, Zach Davies, Chase Anderson and Adrian Houser hardly inspires much confidence as Milwaukee looks to remain afloat in a crowded NL playoff field.
While there’s little harm in considering creative solutions, it remains difficult to imagine this working in practice. Any club acquiring Moustakas and Grandal would need to be contending this year themselves, since both players are rentals. Given every contender’s reluctance to thin out their pitching depth, it’s hard to find a match on paper. (Indeed, Rosenthal notes it’s possible these discussions haven’t actually led Milwaukee’s front office to contact any potential trade partner yet).
Further, it’s not entirely clear moving one of their top performers would be anything more than a lateral move for Milwaukee. Grandal and Moustakas trail only Christian Yelich among Brewer position players in Fangraphs WAR in 2019. Each has been a strong hitter; Grandal’s 126 wRC+ has been fourth-best among regular catchers, while the Moose’s 119 wRC+ might finally have him poised for the multi-year contract that has so long eluded him.
Replacing Grandal, one of baseball’s best pitch framers, might also have cascading effects on the questionable pitching staff inspiring these talks in the first place, to say nothing of the clear offensive downgrade to backup Manny Pina and/or any veteran stopgap Milwuakee could bring in to replace Grandal behind the dish. Moving on from Moustakas could be easier, Rosenthal opines, with rookie second baseman Keston Hiura raking and veteran Travis Shaw on hand at the hot corner. Shaw, though, has had a woeful offensive season that led Milwaukee to demote him to Triple-A just last month. While he hit well in the minors since then and was an above-average player in each of his first two years in Milwaukee, handing a player sporting a season .160/.273/.283 line a full-time job with little depth on hand may prove too risky.
Given the challenges, it seems more likely than not Milwaukee will hold Grandal and Moustakas and make smaller additions to the pitching staff by moving lower-level prospects. General manager David Stearns and his front office have had success over the past few years turning such seemingly marginal acquisitions (including Shaw himself) into productive big leaguers, so it may be best to hope the player development group can work some more magic. Nevertheless, it’s at least noteworthy to hear the club exploring nontraditional ways to improve. The addition of Grandal and Moustakas to the trade market, if it does end up happening, could change the outlook of the crowded National League race.
Not gonna happen
agreed. would be pointless to trade one of these 2 for a pitcher that most likely wouldn’t be as valuable.
Would love to see Moose at 3B or 2B for STL, but that trade will never happen.
Interesting. But since they’re looking for starting pitching, who would be sent back?
They are sending back division opponents fighting for the same thing would never happen
Thats who
Mikolas. That contract is worth moving. But these teams will not trade in the division. Very unlikely.
I agree but, being in the same race, will not happen…
It won’t happen for numerous reasons. Mo foolishly extended Carpenter and Wong is great at 2nd. But the biggest reason is, the Cardinals almost need SP as badly as the Brewers do.
A sign-an-extension and trade for Grandal could potentially entice someone.
Teams clearly don’t want Grandal on a multi yr deal, which is why he had to sign a 1 yr prove it deal. So why would a team give up a good prospect to sign him to a multi yr deal, when he’s going to be a yr older?
He would have cost a draft pick plus a premium in price last offseason. This year, he remains productive and no longer costs a draft pick. He’s getting a multi year deal.
Bush1 Mets offered Grandal 3 years and he didn’t want to play for them. He’ll get a multi year deal in the offseason
A good ole fashion baseball trade. Established MLB player/s for established MLB player/s
Interesting idea. Can’t see any of the contenders with enough pitchers to spare that would make this remotely possible.
Agreed. No contender is giving up good starting pitching and no non-contender wants free agents to be. Can’t see this happening.
Plus it’s not like Grandal and especially Moose are valued greatly. Look at the amount of interest they got in the offseason. Basically zero…
What about Cleveland and Milwaukee? Cleveland needs the offense and seems to have a lot of pitching with Kluber and Salazar due back.
Brewer fans would be sorely disappointed to see Grandal or Moustakas (especially Moose) traded away, even though both are on one-year deals. Assuming that Grandal will sign elsewhere for 2020, but also hopeful that Moose will sign a long-term extension here. Can’t see either move happening unless it brings a huge return such as a starter controllable beyond 2019, and maybe a backup catcher (if Grandal is the one cut loose).
Both for Thor
Those two plus Huira and 2 maybe 3 of their top 20 prospects might get it done.
Wouldn’t trade Keston for Thor straight up.
You’re greatly overvaluing syndegaard. I would stand pat if I was any team in that miserable division. There is no way they get past the division series.
I wouldn’t trade Keaton for a murders row autograph baseball. Keston for a Kevin Orie home run and maybe throw in half eaten Expired box of cracker jack.
You’re high.
No, he’s just a Cubs fan.
Lol
Stearns is trying to provide himself some cover when he trots out the “we tried everything” response to the difficult questions after they essentially stand pat. No team in contention is giving up valuable arms for 65 days of these guys. This is merely signaling that the Brewers might make some moves, but they won’t be of much significance.
Exactly. Teams didn’t even want these two in the offseason when they could have signed them with no prospects. That’s why they both signed 1 yr deals.
Can’t see this happening majority of the NL competition involves Brewers, Cubs & Cards all in the same division. That cuts out a lot of the prospective interest.
What teams in the AL races need a 3B or C that have SP to spare ???
Nobody. Plus it’s not like these guys got much attention this offseason when they were free agents. T
If it happens, it’ll be a 3 team deal
The orioles are not in it…but I bet you could have Nate Karns for a bag of peanuts.
I believe they can trade them to a contender for prospects, but I highly doubt they will get anything remotely close to MLB-ready pitching for these guys.
Not happening
I would think Shaw could bring back a quality arm. Even though they would be selling low he does have 2 yrs of arb left after this one
If I was a team like the Orioles I would jump on this maybe a Bundy for a Moose. Bundy’s Numbers don’t look good but analytics say he is pitching better than his numbers suggest
Then flip Moose to a team that need a 3B for a prospect or 2. Maybe the Cards for an OF
Would have to have another team already willing to take Moose for Os to do this, a la 3-team deal. Shaw would be able to bring back an arm but may not be all that quality. He is arb eligible but already at basically $5m because of the 2 years of good pre-arb production, so not that cheap for a slumping hitter.
What about the possibility of a 3 team trade?
The Cardinals could really use Moustakas. They need a big left handed bat, he plays super solid defense at both 3rd and 2nd, and he can give Goldy even just a little bit more protection.
What do y’all think about a Wacha and Ponce de Leon trade for Moose? The Brewers can try to get some innings from Wacha before they let him walk in FA, use PdL as a back-end starter (at which he’s vastly outperformed thus far) until maybe shifting him to multi-inning relief next year. He’s controllable, too. if I was the Brewers, I wouldn’t make this deal, but as a Cards fan, I want to think this could fly.
They are not going to trade in the division when both teams are in the middle of the pennant race
Would never happen
So you think Milwaukee wants an often injured pitcher and a marginal MLB pitcher? Stearns would laugh MoGirsch right off the phone.
It’s ridiculous to even ponder it. A trade between these 2 teams is not happening.
I’d trade Wacha and Ponce De Leon both for Moose!! Only if Moose would sign an extension with them.
Would would want the combo of ponce and Wacha? You get a starter from both that gives you 6 innings and gives up 4-6 runs…
Obviously Grandal and Moose aren’t valued that highly by the rest of the league. Which is why the Brewers were able to sign them to one year, prove it type deals. Especially Moose. It’s been multiple offseasons where no team wanted any part of him.
Wasn’t so much him I think it had more to do with the draft pick attached to him
Moose didn’t have a pick attached to him this past offseason, but yeah Grandal did.
Set aside your Cubs bias — Moose having a fine season. Most Brewer fans would be happy to see an extension with Shaw’s performance tailing off.
Also Moose has performed better this year than last year. Players can improve their value in a season
Moose is having a good year for sure, I’m simply saying he wouldn’t bring much back in a trade. Because he wouldn’t. Obviously
Don’t forget that Moose has also proven that he can play an acceptable 2B this season. That adds even more value as a position that has been fairly thin on offensive production.
Dude you literally commented the same thing 6 times. Both guys got a lot of attention in the offseason, especially Grandal. Maybe if you comment the same thing again it’ll make it true though.
I would love to live in a world where the Brewers step back this season to reload for some high end pitching by trading Grandal, Moose, Braun, Shaw….. for a 2020 run, but I don’t think we live in that world.
I can’t see the logic of any contender trading pitching (let alone a controllable #2 level SP) for any of the assets, And it definitely doesn’t make sense for a rebuilding club.
But a contending Brewers club loaded for bear with pitching instead of offense? Harvey Kuenn would have a magnificent spin rate in his grave.
What contender can afford to give up a starting pitcher? Maybe Grandal and a prospect for Bauer?
I was thinking the same thing.
If Milwaukee truly wants to add a #1 or #2 starter, no teams will even listen unless the package starts with Keston Hiura and includes a AA pitching prospect or two. With Milwaukee being really high on Hiura (and for good reason), I just don’t see this happening. They will have to settle for a #4 or #5 guy who can hopefully catch fire after being added to a playoff contender.
The Red Sox face the same challenges. They desperately need a closer, but with limited farm system assets, teams are going to demand that the Sox give up Chavis or Benetendi, which they are unlikely to do. They too will have to settle for an under-performer who they hope can flip a switch by being added to a playoff contender.
Hiura isn’t going anywhere. He’s the best natural hitter drafted by the Brewers since Braun came up, and he’s controllable for years on his rookie contract.
Then Milwaukee doesn’t get a top SP….that simple.
I have a scenario where this may play out
Say Braves get a SP in a deal Stroman, Greinke, MadBum whoever
Depending upon who gets traded they could have a surplus of SP
I think we could use Grandal to share time with McCann over Flowers who has been a disappointment this year
Say Gausman & Flowers for Grandal & Minor leaguer ????
But it would have to depend upon Atlanta getting a better SP first
Milwaukee laughs at that offer
I think the Braves could do a catcher swap and give you Tyler flowers so you’d have someone with Pena and then the brewers add on some cash or a lower prospect and give you tomlin, newcomb, folty or Wilson or allard depending on what the Braves are getting back
Come on Ken. You can’t think of a better rumor. This is just click bait. Hell if thats the case then the brewers should just trade Hader. I bet you could get a even better starter for Hader. That’s it I’ll start the rumor. The Brewers are looking at trading Josh Hader for what the h_ll Madison Bumgarner.
Hader for Thor haha
Literally, unless it was to take a big contract pitcher off a teams hand to improve their pitching, like Greinke from Arizona or something, I don’t see how they’d get a pitcher that’d help them this year from a contending team.
Same thing with say Philly for Moose but that’s a little tougher because Phils & Brewers are in more of a direct competition for a WC
Maybe some sort of 3 team deal with Tampa could work
I guess there are scenarios and all the articles says is they are willing to move them
That opens up a lot of 3 team deals but any Cub or Card scenerios keep to your self would never happen
How about this deal? Grandal for Trevor Bauer, straight up. The Indians could use a lot of help at the catching position, and Bauer won’t be around next year. Grandal could sign an extension with CLE or MIL so the Indians won’t need to worry about losing him as a rental. The Brewers get a pretty good rotation upgrade, and I’m sure they could include a young prospect with upside (Dubon, Grisham, Lutz) to sweeten the deal. And if the Brewers are worried about catching depth, Kratzy can be acquired again.
Roberto Perez has 16 HR, 58 RBI and 2.1 WAR for Cleveland, why take on Grandal with his 1.9 WAR? Forgot about Bauer to the brewers any time soon. The only realistic Cleveland SP brewers could land would be Adam Plutko with his 5+ years of control of maybe backend SP.
No chance the Indians even consider that. They couldn’t afford to sign him to an extension, Plus, Perez has been a better catcher this year and is the reason our staff is so good.
If Milwaukee wants Bauer, the only player they have that would start a conversion is Hiura (only young, impact hitter, at a position they could stand to upgrade). Since he’s clearly off the table, the Indians wouldn’t be trading Bauer to the Brewers.
Brewers have inquired about Ray, and I’ve read about speculation about Greinke. But Dbacks and Brewers do not line up well at all for a trade. Brewers don’t have what Dbacks are looking for at all. I’d cross Dback’s Ray and Greinke off the list.
With trade action scarce, this headline is obviously just click-bait. No team is going to acquire quality big league SP for a couple of rentals! I agree with earlier post…Brewers GM is providing cover so he can claim they went all-in at the deadline.
So the Brewers think Yelich can provide all the offense by himself?
And Huira.
He can hit a little (ask Craig Kimbrel).
Danny Salazar for Moose? Salazar has one more year of arb control. Kipnis can grab some pine and Jose moves over to 2ND.
I can’t see moving Moose and only a contending team (outside the NLCent) needing a starting catcher and had starting pitching to burn would go for Grandal. So, not happening.
I’d trade MM … I think they keep afloat without him easily and he might bring what they need
They should trade hiura for Syndergaard. This is their window, these two years. Moose and grandal won’t bring back difference makers
They’re not going to trade him, especially after he got that walk off homerun against the Cubs
Moose and Grandall are free agents after this season, so the only teams that would want them are contenders. Contenders aren’t looking to trade away pitching. This has got to be some kind of ploy to explain why they didn’t go out and get a top pitcher.
Brewers are probably reluctant to trade prospects because their prospects are pretty weak and they just got hit by signing some QO guys. They could probably get a nice couple of pitchers for Gamel and Shaw. Two guys that haven’t played much this year.
Now the Brewers think they need pitching….
At least two people CORRECTLY pointed out that any trade involving the Brewers trading Turner Moustakas or Grandahl would require a third team. One contender would be renting a Brewer slugger, that team would send prospects to a rebuilding team who in turn would send the Brewers a starting pitcher. Yet there is post after post after post from people who ignore that possibility to loudly proclaim “that can’t work!”
Doesn’t anybody read any more than the one post in front of their reply? Are only a few people talking a minute or two to think instead of just typing?
This seems counter-productive.
I get that the Brewers *need* starting pitching; probably worse than any other playoff contender, I’d argue. However, I just don’t think trading Moustakas or Grandal would strengthen the team in any way unless they can acquire a pitcher with some control beyond this season and then they just look ahead to 2020.
I believe that would be the idea behind trading them. Otherwise there would be no point
why do they need to improve the best rotation in the NL?
Why do you need to post the same thing on every Brewers’ rumor?
How about that Cubs bullpen?
For controllable pitching I’d trade grandal. He may be the pitching problem.
At 1st I wasn’t thrilled when they signed Yaz. But he’s been a nice addition to the lineup for sure. But if a team is willing to part with some pitching help with immediate impact,… I wouldn’t be opposed. Grandal would be easier to replace.
Pina is a very capable catcher. His arm is above average with decent accuracy. When Pina gets regular reps he hits better..
Keep Moose,…. That keeps Shaw more versatile and can play 3 infield spots rather than playing 3rd every night.
Moose to the Ray’s for one of their pitching prospects, and perhaps Jesus to sweeten the deal. Shaw finishes off the season at third to see if he can recover. If he doesn’t then try to get moose back for next season.
I’m sorry but the Brewers just don’t have enough this year for a decent playoff run so why bother. When Chase Anderson is becoming your Ace then their in trouble.
No way this are very good players
The first team I thought would be good for this is Texas. They take Moose and extend him for less than the open market. Then they get to bench Odor or Cabrera and maybe make a run at it. Texas gives up Minor which saves the Brewers a few bucks to look for some middling relief and gives them instant innings.