TODAY: Lucroy was diagnosed with a concussion and fractured nose, per a team announcement. It is not known at this point approximately how much time he will miss.
The veteran backstop is slated to visit with an ENT physician after the swelling has gone down, at which time perhaps more will be known. That visit is not expected to take place until after All-Star break.
YESTERDAY: Angels catcher Jonathan Lucroy was taken out of today’s game after a scary-looking collision at home plate with the Astros’ Jake Marisnick. In the eighth inning of a tied 10-10 game, Marisnick attempted to score from third on a fly ball, and ran directly into Lucroy as the catcher had to move slightly up the line to pursue the throw. (Marisnick was called out for an illegal collision.) Lucroy had a bloody nose and attempted to get up after the play, though team trainers convinced him to stay down for examination.
Lucroy was taken to hospital for a CT scan, as per an Angels team announcement, and the catcher will be examined for a possible nose fracture and a possible concussion. More will be known after Lucroy is seen by doctors, though even with the All-Star break providing four days of recovery time, it would seem likely that Lucroy will face an injured list placement.
Lucroy was 2-for-4 with a double and a triple in the game, bringing his season total to .237/.307/.364 over 264 plate appearances. Signed to a one-year contract worth $3.35MM guaranteed over the offseason, Lucroy is in his third straight season of below-average offensive production after several years as one of baseball’s best-hitting catchers earlier in the decade. As per Baseball Prospectus, he is also near the bottom of the league in both pitch-framing and blocking numbers in 2019.
Kevan Smith has seen more time behind the plate for Los Angeles in the wake of Lucroy’s struggles, though Smith is currently on the injured list himself recovering from a hand strain. If both Lucroy and Smith are sidelined following the All-Star break, Dustin Garneau becomes the Halos’ top choice behind the plate, with Jose Briceno on the 40-man roster down at Triple-A. It remains to be seen if the 45-46 Angels will be buyers or sellers at the trade deadline, though catching could potentially be a target area if the club does decide to add pieces to make a wild card run.
Marisnick should have been thrown out of the game. He went at Lucroy rather than trying to avoid contact. Trash game that the Angels were meant to win
Thrown out of the game for what? Lucroy moved in front of Marisnick to catch the all there was nothing dirty about it. Stay mad Angels fan. a
If it was the Astros catcher that got cheap shot and run over you Astro fans would be throwing a fit Next time Marisinck comes to bat an Angel pitcher should throw at his head
One game suspension, because it wasn’t intentional and everyone including Yadier need to can it and stop crying about it. Yes it was unfortunate, and yes someone got hurt. He apologized for it and explained what he was trying to do, and based off that explanation I can’t say he’s lying. If everyone keeps calling for the protection for the catchers, pretty soon they will be making it where player aren’t allowed to slide head first and add additional rules making it virtually impossible for someone to score. Contact happens get over it.
Hey axisofhonor25 Only one game he apologized stop crying for intentionally trying to hurt somebody dirty cheap shot it’s like if your parents got killed by a drunk driver in a car accident and the drunk driver told you I’m sorry. would you accept his apology?
You really gonna compare those two things?!
What does Astros catcher have to do with this play! Go watch play before you make comments noone can understant
Seriously I can’t wait for the Astros window to close so you can go back to college football where you people belong.
Well it ain’t closing anytime soon, so feel free to head over to the college football sites yourself.
You’re a Mets fan so don’t worry about it mr whinny pants.
how long do you think Jake’s suspension will be 7 Days 10 days
I hope 10. Dirty play by a dirty player
None
Hahahahaha. Thank you.
Old game, it was fine. Newer rules clearly violated the rules big time. Worst home plate collision since Posey. Lowering shoulder is the issue to me.
I don’t like either team and it was a clear dirty play. Lucroy was inside the baseline and the runner veered directly into him.
LuCroy did not move in front of Marisnick. LuCroy was inside the foul line (in fair territory) the entire time. Marisnick chose to make hard contact with LuCroy rather than take the clear path to the plate which existed the entire time. If Marisnick stays on the right side of the foul line as he should have, there would have been no collision and likely been safe.
you better look at the replay again Lucroy was standing on the other side of the foul line in Fair territory Lucroy wasn’t in foul territory
Watch it in slow mo. Jake doesnt move until Lucroy moves like he is going inside. He was trying to avoid contact…so basically the exact opposite of what you are thinking…
Jake actually makes two moves trying to avoid Lucroy and/or the tag.
Take off your homer glasses. He had the entire back of the plate wide open and decided it’d be a better idea to slide 3ft to the inside and go through the catcher. The throw took him up the line, but he never even hinted at going into foul territory to get it. Do you have any idea how far into foul territory Lucroy would’ve needed to go in order for that move to be to “try to avoid him”? Not even close.
I think it’s safe to assume he didn’t intend on hurting Lucroy, but the collision was absolutely intentional.
I watched it several times. That was a cheap shot by Jake Marisnick. He didn’t go for the plate, he went for the catchers head. I don’t know how you see it otherwise.
Marisnick is a dirty player cheap shot went for Lucroy head a play like that could end a player’s baseball career
how long do you think the suspension will be 7 Days 10 days
If Marisnick was trying to avoid contact and doing nothing wrong, then why was he ruled out on the play?
From NBC Sports: “Marisnick could’ve gone towards the back of the plate rather than going into Lucroy, who clearly gave Marisnick a clear lane. The collision was completely unnecessary and quite dangerous.“
Because the rule cannot account for intent. It was the right call but Marisnick did everything he could to avoid the collision. In slow mo you can see Jake make 2 seperate moves trying to avoid Lucroy.
1. When Lucroy flinches back towards the line when he misread the ball.
2. Right before contact when he realizes Lucroy is staying put instead of moving.
You can break the rule AND try to avoid contact. Cmon man.
Exactly. Getting tired of all these new safety rules in place based on the few freak accidents that happen. If they are going to regulate. There is going to be a time in which there will be so many safety parameters put in place that it’s going to change the way the game is played and upend years of training for players that have learned how to play one way for so long. Quit complaining, it was unintentional and he doesn’t have a history of dirty plays
Yeah, and Lucroy could have moved out of the way as well.
Or by taking the wide open path to the plate down the baseline. The one he had no need to deviate from.
He moved inside in response to Lucroy moving back towards the line…it was the right call but the collision wasnt intention.
Which I’d say even if an Angels player did the same to a ‘Stro.
You have a lane, take the lane.
Lucroy was inside the line, and collided into. Calling the runner out was the right call. He went two steps to the left to hit Lucroy. It was completely unnecessary.
Absolutely correct…Lucroy was up the line in fair territory, and in slow motion you can see Marisneck step into fair territory to take him out. Absolutely wasn’t necessary in order for him to score. probably his anticipation that he might have been tagged out once Lucroy got control of the throw and turned to tag him.
Right call, but it’s the Umpire’s call as to whether he should have been also thrown out of the game.
Is that you Marcus?
Split second dumb move. Unless you’ve played the game professionallly you can’t judge him. Stupid decision but not dirty.
That’s exactly right. Chili Davis use to catch and I took him out on a play at home plate, It shook him up. I knew immediately it wasn’t a clean slide and I felt terrible. I helped him up and apologized and he said in his Jamaican accent, “You’re just playing ball man, your just playing ball.”.
These guys know you get a split second. It wasn’t planned. It wasn’t a clean slide and the umpires got it right. That doesn’t make anyone a dirty player. All it means is it wasn’t a legal slide. It wasn’t, and there is no way any reasonable person can conclude it was.
Sure, it was a split-second decision. A split-second decision where Marisnick decided “to hell with the rules, I don’t have a chance unless I blow this guy up!”
The idea fans can’t judge plays or players unless we’re also professional players is the ultimate impossible qualifier. It eliminates any potential criticism because your argument is so ridiculously poor it cannot take any scrutiny at all and you know it. Same strategy as a stawman argument. If your position is garbage, change the topic of the discussion.
Ok so you’re driving a car and a squirrel runs out in front of you, you go left instead of right which is the way you should go and blam, splat goes the squirrel. You done fudged up. It happens
Tʜɪs! Pᴇʀғᴇᴄᴛ ᴍᴇᴛᴀᴘʜᴏʀ.
Jdodson is your typical lost Halo fan. What should Jake have done? If you don’t wanna give the lane up as a catcher than you might get blasted.
He should’ve taken the wide open lane, which he absolutely he had. But if he did that, he would’ve been tagged out.
Thanks for the input HaloShane. You always tend to have a rational take on things Angels. He had a clear path in foul territory. I watched it multiple times in regular speed and slow mo. I’m not lost. I can see that we have a terrible manager and won’t win with the garbage FA signings. Eppler has made absolute steals in his trades. Framework is there for a great team.
maybe slide into home plate
Really? You don’t know what he should have done. He should have made a slide. You realize he didn’t slide…. right?
You don’t know much about this game… do you?
In Shane’s mind, they are a solid 3rd place team. Catchers on solid 3rd place teams don’t know any better. He had it coming.
Shane seldom gives a reason for his opinion, however he did on the Thaiss thread. It’s clear he’s clueless.
He thinks Theass starting the year at AAA is a clear sign the Angels have no direction. I guess Shane thinks he should have been given the first base job coming out of spring training.
The troll returns!!
Jake leapt superman-style diving into Lucroy head/shoulder first. I Jake took Lucroy out without leaving his feet its possible the helmet to face doesn’t happen. If it were the NFL Jake would have been penalized and fined for leading with his head!
Pull your head out of your emotions and realize no one ever does anything intentional. We are all living in God’s plan. I know most of you internet users are young trendys but grow up. You will just laugh and mock but that’s all trendy people have.
“Clean play” smh.
“Dɪʀᴛʏ ᴘʟᴀʏ” ᴏʀ “ᴄʟᴇᴀɴ ᴘʟᴀʏ” – ɪɴᴛᴇɴᴛɪᴏɴᴀʟ ᴏʀ ᴜɴɪɴᴛᴇɴᴛɪᴏɴᴀʟ ɪᴛ ᴅᴏᴇsɴ’ᴛ ᴍᴀᴛᴛᴇʀ ɪɴ ᴛʜᴇ ᴇɴᴅ. Aɴɢᴇʟs ᴀʀᴇ ᴀ ғʀɪɴᴅɢᴇ 500 ᴛᴇᴀᴍ ɢᴏɪɴɢ ɴᴏᴡʜᴇʀᴇ. Tʜᴇ ʀᴇsᴜʟᴛ ᴏғ ᴛʜɪs ɢᴀᴍᴇ ғᴀɪʀ ᴏʀ ɴᴏᴛ ᴡᴀs ɴᴏᴛ ɢᴏɪɴɢ ᴛᴏ ᴄᴀᴛᴀᴘᴜʟᴛ ᴀɴɢᴇʟs ɪɴᴛᴏ ᴄᴏɴᴛᴇɴᴛɪᴏɴ ᴏʀ ᴅᴏᴏᴍ ᴛʜᴇ ᴀsᴛʀᴏs ɪғ ᴛʜᴇʏ ʟᴏsᴛ.
Uɴғᴏʀᴛᴜɴᴀᴛᴇ ɪɴᴄɪᴅᴇɴᴛ. Bɪɢ ғᴀɴ ᴏғ ʟᴜᴄʀᴏʏ ᴀɴᴅ ᴍᴀʀᴀsɪɴɪᴄᴋ ʜᴀs ᴀʟᴡᴀʏs ʙᴇᴇɴ ᴀ ɢᴏᴏᴅ ɢᴜʏ ᴀɴᴅ sᴛᴀɴᴅ ᴜᴘ ᴅᴜᴅᴇ. Iᴛ ᴡᴀs ᴏʙᴠɪᴏᴜs ᴍᴀʀᴀsɪɴɪᴄᴋ ғᴇʟᴛ ɪᴍᴍᴇᴅɪᴀᴛᴇ & ɪᴍᴍᴇɴsᴇ ʀᴇᴍᴏʀsᴇ. Hᴏᴘᴇ ʟᴜᴄʀᴏʏ ʀᴇᴄᴏᴠᴇʀs ᴀs ғᴀsᴛ ᴀɴᴅ ᴀs ʜᴇᴀʟᴛʜʏ ᴀs ᴘᴏssɪʙʟᴇ.
Bᴜᴛ ᴀɴɢᴇʟs ғᴀɴ ɴᴇᴇᴅs ᴛᴏ ɢᴇᴛ sᴏᴍᴇ sᴇʀɪᴏᴜs ᴘᴇʀsᴘᴇᴄᴛɪᴠᴇ.
Anyone notice that Lucroy was knocked out? Look art his arms and hands. His arms are up like he ous going to huge someone and his hand you can see is locked in a fist. Both signs of being unconscious.
I am an M’s fan so no love for either team. I did like it when the Astros forest came into the league it was easy wins. They are good now and have a good minor system so we will have to deal with them for awhile. Anyway I am old school and grew up with those types of collisions being the norm. Now it is illegal and since the catchers are not prepared for it they are cheap. There was plenty of room to avoid the collision. I am shocked they are not talking about him being knocked out because it was obvious. He wasn’t it long but definitely out. If you need more proof Google football players being knocked out there is sombre good footage there.
I really do hope no baseball “traditionalists” see a catcher getting slammed like they used to and think it’s a good thing when the human body was never meant to take full-on blows like that, Ray Fosse and obviously Buster Posey for example.
Posey was hurt from improper technique prior to the collision.
As a non-traditionalist, expect more of this in the future. No matter how many times you change rules in an attempt to clean up the name, different problems arise. I’m not here to say crush the catcher every chance you get either.
I think a lot of traditionalists understand players prepare differently. Traditionally, Lucroy would have blocked the plate and put his body into a defensive position, expecting the collision. Traditionally, catchers were also built much bigger than a lot of other players. It’s a totally different scenario now from both sides.
Back in the day, having a 5’8″ 170lb fielder plow into a 6’2″ 225lb catcher in body armor meant something a little different.
Lucroy got Murdered right there… it was ugly
Lucroy got manslaughtered* there. FTFY.
The throw took Lucroy up the line to the right. Marisnick was headed to home from his left. Bam – the two were on a collision path. Only way Marisnick could have avoided Lucroy is if Lucroy disappeared.
Or ran on the right side of the 3rd base line like he’s suppose to
Lol did you even see the play? Lucroy was inside, Jake had an open lane.
look at jonathans foot, blocking the plate, without the ball.
Hm… Troll… Username checks out
Jake came in like a bowling ball Jake aimed for Jonathan Lucroy head Jake could have slid into Home Plate safely
See the eye doctor asap.. Marisnick was in foul side of baseline, Lucroy was in fair territory. There is a pic that shows a clear path to homeplate. Marisnick made a choice to truck the catcher, and aimed for his head. Marisnick should get a lengthy suspension.
Check your emotions pal.
Lucroy was standing in front of home plate basically straddling the line when Jake made his first move. As Jake moved so did Lucroy.
wrong, he was on the baseline, jogged outside then when lucroy appeared to move that way he tried to go inside. it was clearly an accident in microseconds
False
The throw took Lucroy up the line.
Bull, he was 2 feet inside the line. Did you even see the play??
Yah… He also stayed in fair territory the entire time, leaving the back of the plate wide open.
Should Marisnick receive a suspension? This was not easy watching that collision. I hope Lucroy is well. Baseball should not be played that way.
Jake made 2 moves trying to avoid contact. Go rewatch it before you accuse one of the nicest guys in baseball of playing dirty…
I’m not accusing him. But it’s difficult to see that collision. Read my comment again. Thank you.
“Baseball should not be played that way”
Not really any other way to read that other than saying Marisnick did it on purpose which would be dirty. You also asked if should be suspended.
If thats not what you meant chose better words next time.
I was watching the game live and it was ugly, but Marisnick was not intending to hit him square-on. Throw took Lucroy into Marisnick’s decided path and it should be noted that Lucroy was not conceding the plate to him, which according to the rules, allows for contact. No, that kind of contact should not be legal, but Lucroy was not conceding the plate to the runner.
He did the best Pete Rose on Ray Fosse impersonation I’ve seen in years,
Dejoto,
You’re wrong.
I don’t know how many times people will have to tell you to look at the video again before you see that.
Nicest guy in baseball might be getting some eggs thrown at him come mid July.
eggs? 99 mph fastball up his nose!
I wouldn’t be surprised. He had a very clear path to the plate. He clearly deviated from that path and initiated the contact.
But I expect a fine. After all, he crushed an Angel not a Yank or Sux catcher.
Go rewatch it Marisnick made two moves trying to adjust for Lucroy was moving towards. It wasnt intentional…
those moves allowed him to hit lucroy’s most vital area. head.
dejota, u Jakes burner?
why come in with your head like a cannonball why not slide into home plate
Because Lucroy was standing in front of home plate when he made his first move. If Lucroy doesnt move and Jake doesnt adjust his course, they would have collided. Jake adjusted his course literally as Lucroy moves to catch the ball.
I’m not saying he’s not at fault. I am saying it wasn’t intentional. Why would he intentionally do that when the rule is clear that you will be called out immediately?
Suspension on the way
Like your name, it’s gonna happen. I thought Marisnick was classy after the play. He did feel bad in my opinion.
I have seen it several times. Clear, open path to the plate if he veers right, contact because he veers left. Hence getting called out.
Everyone always wants to find intent when watching slow motion. This happened quickly, a split second choice. I’ve never said it was malicious, just the wrong choice.
Yep. I don’t want to get into motives or intentions, but it was clearly an illegal slide. There is simply no debate on the subject.
Illegal doesn’t necessarily mean dirty or malicious. It means illegal.
No, no intent to hurt him but he’s an idiot for his move. Jeez guys
He should definitely be suspended but he sucks anyway so they probably won’t waste there time.
I just watched the replay but not in slow motion.
It seemed to me that Marisnick let his reaction take over to try to beak up the catch.This rule has been in play for several years but he may have reverted to his long made reaction from playing baseball for a number of years.
The umpires made the right call.
They don’t call the catcher’s equipment “the tools of ignorance” for nothing.You have to be a tough guy to be a catcher.
I do not see any intent on JM’s part.He would not have leaned over JL if he did.
Chase Utley would never have leaned over the catcher after the play was over.
They could suspend JM but only for recklessness.It is a dangerous sport and incidents like this will always happen.Lucroy would probably be the last one to complain.
Is it me or are a lot of players getting hurt right before the break this year?
It happens in little league, it happens in MLB. Catcher, runner and ball wind up in the same spot at the same time. It’s a train wreck. No intent from Marisnick to injure Lucroy.
all he had to do was run outside the 3rd base line like 99% of all runners. he knew he was late and came inside the line to cannon ball lucroy.
I think he was in the wrong, as he clearly went inside the foul line (which you’re not supposed to do anyway) straight at him, but I don’t think it was on purpose. Really dumb mistake that had horrible consequences, but not intentional.
Jake could have easily slid into home plate safe instead of going in like a cannonball head first
But he did, didn’t he? Intent be damned. It was a stupid running decision by a player who isn’t very good at his craft.
Injuries are no good, but that being said, I miss home plate collusions. I also missed hard slides into second bases to break up the double plays. I miss managers fighting with the umps in a screaming match. I also miss fake to third throw to first.
It may not have been intentional but it looks intentional when you see the shoulder to the head.
That was definitely interference … the runner moved at least 2 feet left and lowered his shoulder and left his feet to crash into the catcher … should be suspended …
Watched the replay video several times. Lucroy was inside the foul line the entire time as he was supposed to be. Malicious intent or not, Marisnick clearly deviated from his clear path to the plate to initiate the collision.
Marisnick should be suspended for as long as Lucroy is out of action due to his injury.
Stop it….
Marisnick appeared to try to go on the inside when he probably should have gone outside.
Yes, I’m saying Marisnick didn’t mean to crush Lucroy. Had he wanted to level him he wouldn’t have attempted to move his feet in any other direction except forward. You could see Marisnick felt awful and even checked on Lucroy immediately after impact.
Something you never saw in the past.
I believe it was a mistake by Marisnick and the human baseball elements came into play. This was inevitable. This rule makes Marisnick look like the bad guy. That’s unfair. He should not be suspended.
This rule along with a runner being reprimanded for something we can’t say was intent could have serious ramifications down the road. Catchers are aware of the safety risks too. Don’t forget that. And Catchers….keep your mask on. Even with the rule.
hitting a defenseless player on the head with his showlder is malicious. no wonder even football prohibits it!
This was an intentional play by Marisnick plain and simple. He knew exactly what he was doing.
Secondly, of course he meant to “crush” the catcher to dislodge the ball, otherwise why would he collide with the guy.
Yes, you have seen this in the past (Posey, and that infamous Pete Rose play in the All Star game)) which was why the league put the rule into effect.
Marisnick is the bad guy as he had a choice and made the obvious one to him. He intentionally took steps to the inside of the fair line and aimed right at Lucroy as he was awaiting the throw. By the way, Lucroy is allowed to be where he is awaiting the throw because he is not blocking the plate. This is why the play is obvious and intentional on Marisnicks part.
Finally have you ever played….a catcher is always taught to get rid of the mask when taking a throw to the plate.
Lucroy was standing directly in front of the plate when both players took a step to the inside of the line at the same time. YouTube has the angle looking up the 3B line that shows they both move the same direction at the same time. There is no way Marisnick could have known ahead of time that Lucroy would be making the same change in direction.
There was no intent. If there was, it means Jake Marisnick has the the fastest reaction time known to man and moved into Lucroys path as he was changing it at a dead sprint within 2 steps.
I don’t think you should call Marisnick “a bad guy.” How about: he made a very poor decision that will have lasting ramifications for his pedestrian career?
No Rocky, catcher keeps the mask on unless it’s a pop up in the air. If you can see 100 off a mound you can see throws from fielders. The reason coaches used to teach keeping the mask on is for two reasons…
1) in the event of an off-line throw nobody trips on the mask, or a runner trips on the mask.
2) Any runner trying to plow the catcher has to hit a mask designed to take foul balls. Disadvantage idiot runner.
Anyway, you learned something. You’re welcome.
“Catchers are aware of the safety risks too.”
Which is probably why he stayed inside fair territory the ENTIRE TIME, leaving a wide open path to the back of the plate.
Watch it again, he was on the line trying to catch the baseball. And, had he kept his mask on he stays in the game. Period.
Since the rule is in-place people assume they are protected. Just like the 2B or SS standing on the bag turning a double play. Just like the hitter standing on-top of the plate with body armor. None are absolved from getting hurt. Take precaution. Lucroy opted to toss the mask.
Wow…. now it’s Lucroy’s fault? You have some twisted logic there…. I guess that’s what happens when one tries very hard to defend an act that EVERYONE knows was wrong.
Didn’t know I was placing blame here….wait, I didn’t.
When did protecting yourself at all times become a method of blaming?
You can’t refute what I said because you know I am right. It hurts your feelings and you decided to lash out with some petty assumption. Not once did I use the word fault. I certainly talked about safety, something you and others neglect.
Keep his mask on? What? Did someone who professes to know baseball really write that?
Here is something you can’t refute. Catches don’t typically keep the mask on when they are expecting plays at the plate.
If he had kept his mask on? Heck, that is about as likely as a catcher building a retaining wall. If the catcher had simply built a retaining wall he’d be ok as well.
Another guy who probably never played catcher. Again, catchers take their masks off because most were taught that way, some weren’t. With today’s rules you aren’t expecting what happened yesterday to happen.
However, it happened.
Altogether now: if you can catch heaters and hooks from 60 feet 6 inches, you can wear your mask on throws from fielders.
Most pitchers throw from the full windup with nobody on. Some have adopted the stretch style with nobody on. Most were taught to pitch full windup. Doesn’t make one or the other right or wrong. But some coaches teach Catchers to keep the mask on for plays at the plate in the event some guy goes football mode. Hurts them if their shoulder hits the mask.
Marisnek went inside and high towards the head instead of low and away. He went after Lucroy’s head. Unneeded. Suspend the guy.
Tell me how he went high? Both of their heads collided when Lucroy was just hitting his knees. Jake was at a full sprint 2 steps before they collided. Jake moved inside, stupidly I admit, at literally the same moment Lucroy made the same move inside. Seeing this, Jake took 1 final step attempting to correct the first step. It didnt work.
Literally 2 steps, at a dead sprint, and 6’5″ Marisnick was making head to head contact with a catcher who was on his knees. But he went high?
Marisnick always takes a late side step and the next step is a late launch head-first to whichever side of the plate he’s chosen.
He did nothing differently tonight than he ever does. The problem tonight was that Lucroy was up the line and the ball arrived at the same time.
teach him to run outside the line. otherwise, his head will be busted someday.
And so the halo gets a little dimmer
Btw I’m not a doctor but he definitely has a broken nose.
Umps got call right. Marisnick moved inside.
watched the video a few times. marisnick lauched himself from 2 feet inside the line. there you can see his left foot print in wet mud.
Clearly he could’ve slid on the outside, but it’s so bang bang it’s impossible to tell whether his thought was to force a collision or not. It’s sports and injuries happen. I hate how every time there’s a moment that looks bad everyone jumps to conclusions about the players/rules.
No in slow motion he takes at least one maybe two intentional steps to the inside of the fair line to intentional make contact with the catcher who is perfectly legal in where he is in relation to the runner.
He had intent to make contact to dislodge the ball.
There are no conclusions to debate other than the obvious that he should have been called out,….the only thing left to debate is whether he should have been thrown out, and possibly faces a suspension.
Unfortunately baseball is not played in super slo-mo. Marisnick was flying down the baseline. Lucroy was standing on the foul side of the base line when Marisnick swerved inside. Then Lucroy moved into fair territory to catch it and while bobbling it continued to go farther into fair territory. Once Marisnick went to the fair side he really had no place else to go – he tried to go father fair but Lucroy kept sliding across and they met in a sickening collision.
I’ve been watching Marisnick since he came to the Astros – he is a very clean (but very fast player) – I’ve never seen him have anything like this occur before and you could tell he was instantly sorry it happened. It looked like a collision that both sides had a part in.
You’re clearly an Astros fan, and what you claimed to have seen never actually happened. Lucroy never went into foul territory.
I just don’t think people should have lives metaphorically killed for mistakes made.
I’m an Astros fan. And Lucroy was standing in front of home plate basically straddling the foul line before he moved to make the catch. It’s on YouTube, check it out. They both move to the inside at the same time.
I’m a White Sox fan. His left foot was on the top left corner of the plate, and the one step he took was with his right foot slightly up the line and further into fair territory. The back of the plate was wide open before Lucroy took a step, and it was even more wide open after he took a step. He was NEVER in foul territory, and he certainly wasn’t “straddling the foul line.”
Where is the foul line in reference to home plate? I was under the impression it begins at the top corners of the plate.
I’m not arguing he made a mistake by going inside. I’m arguing that he didnt go inside to cheap shot Lucroy. That’s not the way Jake plays.
You and your “Jake.”
His name is Jake Marisnick, unless you know personally, which I sincerely doubt.
Definitely a dirty cheap shot Bush League Play
you don’t know him.
Find a video where you can see Lucroy the entire play. As soon as Springer makes contact, he positions his foot on the top corner for reference to the plate,with the rest of his body inside the line. Lucroy was in perfect position, and the entire back side was open. Those are facts. I don’t think it was intentional, but I also think it was very avoidable.
I’m not an Astros fan, Priggs. Dan’s assessment was fair.
IMO It looked like Jake took a last moment step inside to avoid what he thought would be a swipe tag. As soon as he takes that step inside, Lucroy takes the same step leading him up the line directly where Marisnick is heading. Jake takes one final step outside to avoid collision, but there was no avoiding that.
He also hit him with the back of his helmet/head because he was attempting to avoid direct impact and roll out of the way.
You can see the replay in slow-mo on YouTube, both players step inside at the same time two steps before the collision. This is all to say, it wasn’t intentional.
If it was the Astros catcher that received that cheap shot and got run over you Astro fans would be throwing a fit. Jake could have just slid into Home Plate not go in with his head down4 Next time Jake Marisinck comes to bat an Angel pitcher should throw at his head
And if they dont, do you concede that they didnt think it was dirty?
If Lucroy had been standing still and got run over it would have been all Marisnick’s fault. I just ask Angels fans to look exactly where Lucroy is standing at the moment Marisnick goes inside and where Lucroy is at when the collision occurs – he has moved like 10 ft – it was unfortunate but it is not like Marisnick ran right at where Lucroy was standing – he swerved inside and unfortunately Lucroy moved way inside too
What in the world are you watching? Lucroy had his left foot on the top corner of the plate. He took literally one step up the baseline with his right foot and went even further into fair territory. He didn’t move anywhere near 10ft, and he NEVER even came close to touching foul territory.
Dan,
You need to take a step back from your Homer Stance and watch the play again. Clearly Marisnick was wrong. And he will be paying a hefty fine as well as a suspension for it. (I am neither an Astros fan nor an Angels fan). I am a baseball fan.
Are they ever actually going to issue any fines/suspension in relation to the Posey Rule? For the moment it only appears to govern whether or not the runner is out. For example, 2 years ago Anthony Rizzo pulled a similar stunt on Austin Hedges but Hedges held onto the ball so Rizzo was already called out on the play anyway and they just left it at that. I guess we’ll just have to wait until it happens to a catcher who plays for a team that MLB actually cares about.
I feel like Marisnick would have had a good chance of scoring if he had slid for the outside of the plate.
If Marisnick had psychic ability to know that Lucroy was not going to stay in the outside lane of the foul line and was going to move inside almost simultaneous to Marisnick – then Marisnick would have stayed outside and easily scored.
Now if Marisnick had stayed on the running lane on the outside and Lucroy had not moved and he collided with him – then he would have been at fault. But basically he collided with a moving object
Wow just wow emotional arguments mean postmodernism wins. And postmodernism is evil.
Define postmodernism and how it applies here.
If you older than 14, please explain your hypothesis which makes no sense.
If you actually watch Marisnick play, this is how he slides into home.
He’s always head first, takes a late side step and the next step is launch. He launches very late to leave himself with the most momentum, control and generally tags the plate with a sideways extended arm. He’s legitimately one of the best technical baserunners in the game and his sliding technique is elite. In this instance, Lucroy was 3 steps up the line fielding the throw, reducing Marisnick’s ability to take an angle. He still tried – that’s the side step. It wouldn’t have mattered had the ball not arrived at the same time, but it did, so Lucroy’s last-second move to field the ball put him directly into the path of Jake’s launch zone. That’s why it looks absolutely brutal, why it looks like Jake “didn’t intend to slide” and why the side step has left it wide open for critique & assumptions.
I’ve watched Marisnick play for a very long time and he did nothing differently tonight than he ever does.
Then why didn’t he slide to the middle and right of home base which were wide open for his professional slide? Very disturbing that you can’t see the obvious.
It was a cheap shot, plain and simple. And the rule should be named the Santana-Posey rule.
As a lifelong angels fan and catcher through high school…I saw nothing wrong with the collision. Jake did what he could to be safe and Lucroy was up the line a bit. Could he have avoided lucroy going outside? Maybe but it happened so fast. Honestly, he should have been called safe after review, but it didn’t really matter since the Astros won anyway.
LOL ANGEL FAN??
you must have gotten too many concussion enducing head collisions. that was a very intelligent post. very!
This angle tells you everything.
Clearly the runner had a lane to the middle and right of the plate to slide; instead he chose the left lane which meant a violent collision.
I believe Marisnick should be suspended 10 games, minimum.
youtube.com/watch?v=Kim0Fck3CjY
He should be fined for sure. And he should be suspended without pay for exactly as long as Lucroy is out of action. And honestly, that should be in the rule.
And honestly, your rule sucks.
you seem to do. exactly that.
Lucroy dropped the ball before any contact was made. What happened after is irrelevant to a safe/out call. Fining or suspending Marisnick is an entirely different matter. But safe he was imho. Astros won the game eventually so the baseball gods got it right. I liken this to a guy hitting a home run and after touching home plate he punches the catcher in the mouth. MLB wouldn’t take the run away but they would find/suspend him.
*fine not find…
” I liken this to a guy hitting a home run and after touching home plate he punches the catcher in the mouth.”
Which would be an inapt comparison. In that example the infraction takes place after the run-scoring event is complete, so the player punching the catcher in the mouth afterward has no connection to the run scored, nor the event resulting in the run being scored.
The entirety of this event takes place while the ball is live, From the rule 7:13 regarding blocking homeplate:
” If, in the judgment of the umpire, a runner attempting to score initiates contact with the catcher (or other player covering home plate) in such a manner, the umpire shall declare the runner out (regardless of whether the player covering home plate maintains possession of the ball).”
The last part of that rule assumes the catcher had the ball and that it is irrelevant whether the catcher maintains the ball after the collision. In this play the catcher never had the ball. And because of that fact he never had a chance to put out Marisnick whether there had been a collision or not. That’s why I think he’s safe on the play AND is open to a fine/suspension.
“regardless of whether the player covering home plate maintains possession of the ball” assumes the player had the ball for we as humans cannot maintain something if we haven’t first possessed it.
The rule doesn’t assume anything. It’s the rule, and that parenthetical is functioning to clarify that possession of the ball is not one of the factors an umpire needs to consider when deciding whether or not the runner violated the rule:
A runner attempting to score may not deviate from his direct pathway to the plate in order to initiate contact with the catcher (or other player covering home plate), or otherwise initiate an avoidable collision
“In this play the catcher never had the ball.”
Not required by the rule
“And because of that fact he never had a chance to put out Marisnick whether there had been a collision or not.”
Also a self-constructed litmus test not required by the rule.
We could have also called obstruction on Lucroy for blocking the plate before the ball arrived. We can do this all day and go around in-circles blaming this guy or the other and what the call should have been. Judgement call.
New York looked at the replay and called him out so was a Judge and jury not Judgement call . The back of the plate was open. Dirty play all the way around. He was going for the head which was 3’ above the plate.
Except the umpire deemed that Lucroy wasn’t blocking the plate because the runner had a path that could have been taken to avoid contact. I’m not saying the runner intended to inflict injury, but he could have taken the path that was open to him that avoided collision. Lucroy left plenty of room for the runner while trying to stay within tagging distance. He’s not going to stand 3 feet away from the plate.
Marisnick will get hit with a suspension no room for a dirty player
guilty!
It is a complete joke that the play was ruled as an illegal collision. Lucroy never caught the ball, never had possession of the ball, and therefore should have never been in Marisnick’s way. MLB needs to do a better job of enforcing the rules that they have in place instead of crafting ambiguous rules that allow the umpires to influence the game.
We think you need to take a second look and put the machismo aside…..as Marishick totally takes a step inside from his original path intentionally to make contact with Lucroy who didn’t even have the ball yet, once he realized that Lucroy probably had a pretty good angle to make a play on him. This is not bang/bang…its taking out a defenseless ballplayer to try and score.
Never having possession, nor have the ball in control are damming factors in Lucroy’s favor not Marisnicks!
“The catcher may not block the pathway of a runner attempting to score unless he has possession of the ball. If the catcher blocks the runner before he has the ball, the umpire may call the runner safe”
So rocky, which part of that rule favors Lucroy? Please enlighten me.
catcher cannot block the pathway of a runner when he was sitting 3 feet away from normal pathway of 99.9% of base-runners. since marisnick came 2 feet inside the 3rd base line should lucroy avoid him by running to first? you make no sense with your argument when the umpires, mlb writers and even espn talking-heads disagree with you.
So, what you’re saying, is that it should be okay to collide with a catcher who doesn’t have the ball, even when it’s not necessary to do so because there’s an open path to the plate. Makes sense.
No, I am saying that Lucroy should follow the rules and shouldn’t be in the basepath until he catches the ball. Learn how to read.
pathway for runners is outside the line.
What he said
OK – I give up. Marisnick changed his uniform number to 666. He spent time watching the beginning of “The Last Boy Scout” and decided to come out on the field firing guns at his opponents.
He should be strung up and never allowed to play again. He should be forced to watch repeats of the Astros’ 2013 season.
Bottom line – I think he will be fined and suspended because of the results of the play – the injury to Jonathan Lucroy, not necessarily because of any intent on his part.
Unlike the Rose / Fosse play where Fosse never moved and Rose blew him up – this was a situation where both players moved into the same space.
I sincerely hope that Jonathan Lucroy will be OK and will have no lasting problems – that is the only thing that matters right now.
Marisnick’s explanation was that he thought Lucroy would field the throw, then drop back to block the plate, so he was trying to hook slide around the front of the plate and where he thought Lucroy was going to be. It is a plausible if you watch the replay in slow motion – you can see him dip his shoulder to the left and begin to attempt to slide, but unfortunately Lucroy remained right there. It was a split second decision running at full speed. It is a lot easier decision for us to make watching it over and over. Marisnick is not a dirty player, and I don’t think he had any ill intentions with this. And I am not an Astros fan.
I agree 100% Peyton. These fools saying he should be arrested for assault highlights what is wrong in today’s society. Everyone is lawsuit crazy. This is professional sports and hard hits, take out slides and HBP happen as part of the game, even though there are rules against most of them.
I’m guessing that the commissioner will be forced to assess some sort of suspension due to the outcry of upset fans and the injuries sustained, but can we please stop with the “he should be arrested” crap? One of the reasons they get paid so much is that there is a risk to their bodies and overall health every time they take the field. The guy tried to go left to avoid the catcher based on where he thought he was going to go (back) but he remained there and took quite a hit. All part of the game if you ask me. IMO, Machado’s slide into Dustin Pedroia’s knee (essentially ending his career) was MUCH more intentional than this play.
a runner who wanted to hook-slide doesn’t raise his elbow in front of him barging into a catcher. bull!
When you get caught up in the heat of the game, you make mistakes.
It was an illegal play. I don’t think Marisnick is necessarily a dirty player, but anyone who is trying to justify that slide and claiming it was a clean play is being dishonest.
Well said. I just watched this play. I don’t know anything about Marisnick but this slide was god-awful.
Dirty, filthy. Stinking, cheating Asstroes.
Intentions aside, it’s clear that Marisnick changed course and injured Lucroy. Saying sorry is good, but it isnt enough. There needs to be some punitive action. If Lucroy is out a month with a concussion it doesn’t seem fitting that Marisnick gets a 2 or 3 game suspension. Let the punishment equal or exceed the infraction, then there wont be any payback brewing later.
concussions are an inevitable price of catching. not saying i like it or the slide, but its a fact. catchers simply dont get the credit they are due.
the league should suspend marisnick for at least the rest of the year, he most certainly should have been ejected. It was a purposeful hit that didn’t have to happen and it is career threatening when you lower your shoulder to deliver a blow..
Jake Marisnick should honestly be arrested and charged with assault. Should have to spend the whole All-Star break in jail and should have to go through a criminal trial. In addition, he needs to be suspended, probably for the rest of the season. This isn’t football, nor is it a sport where you should be able to intentionally injure someone and get away with it.
Great sarcasm
even in football, hitting a defenseless player on the head with shoulder or elbow is not allowed. and this did exactly that.
Hi, my name is Ray Fosse, and I know a thing or two about getting wiped out at home plate. Jake Marisnick sure looked like he changed his tack at the last moment, away from the plate.
Oh, by the way, Pete Rose is still a jerk. 🙂
If this was the NHL, Lucroy would be back out there tonight with cotton balls in his nose
Don’t they require helmets ?
As does MLB for baserunners and catchers too.
did you sell your class for a penny?
I’m not sure how anyone can watch the clip in normal speed or slow motion and see anything other than a dirty play. Both of Lucroy’s feet were way inside the line and Marisnick had a clear path to the right side of home plate. He clearly comes inside the line and initiates the contact. He can get up and act all distraught but the video doesn’t lie. He should be suspended for as long as Lucroy is out injured. I’m not one for new rules but that one is there for a reason. It’s so obvious Lucroy gave him the outer part to slide and that he was going to try to apply a swipe tag.
Marisnick was on the outside of the line coming in… when Lucroy reached into the lane to catch the ball Marisnick moved to the inside and caused the collision. He lowered his shoulder at contact which makes it look worse, but I think that is just reflex. Marisnick should have stayed on the outside and he might have been able to avoid the tag if Lucroy catches the ball.
The call was correct. I don’t think a suspension is warranted.
suspend him for the rest of the season.
Does JM have a reputation for being a dirty player? Does he do this a lot?
I’m an Angel fan. It was an illegal collision, but this only warrants suspension if this is something he has done before.
After the play, JM looked genuinely concerned. Nobody wanted a piece of JM, which tells me that no one thought there was malice.
Illegal doesn’t mean dirty. He just made a mistake in the heat of a game, it happens.
as i wrote down there some astros fans claimed that’s how he slides. this action should not be defended in any circumstances. if he did not intend to hit lucoy why would he raise his arm in front of his head barging into lucroy? intent or not action speaks volumes about him.
It, certainly did look suspicious. But stuff like that has happened to me, but then again I never lowered a shoulder when it did happen to me.
I think people really need to understand the distinction between illegal and dirty play.
Clearly, without question, it was an illegal. It wasn’t even a slide. But no one knows intent. As a runner, you get a fraction of a second to decide how you are going to slide.
Could there have been malice, absolutely, No one but JM really knows. Was it a player who thought the throw was going to take JL into foul territory and then got caught inside the line with nowhere to go? It’s possible.
I don’t know enough about Jake Marisnick to know if he is a dirty player, but I know he didn’t slide and I know what JM did was illegal.
How does anyone not know it was an illegal play is beyond me.
dirty or not he should be suspended for long time. nobody playing in mlb slides like him as astros fans claim. if that’s how he slides, it’s a wonder how long he has survived playing baseball. catchers would defend themselves by raising leg protection to his head.
I know what you are saying, but sometimes as a runner or fielder, you get caught in terrible situations.
If he’s “zigging” expecting the catcher to “zag” and the catcher doesn’t ‘zag”, there is going to be a collision. .
If he doesn’t have the reputations of being a dirty player, then it’s possible it was simply illegal without being dirty. And if there is no intent, I’m not really sure how you can suspend him.
all due respect, mac, his left footprint left in the mud tells the story. he drove his foot to launch himself forward. intent to injure lucroy? questionable. intent to barge into lucroy to knock him down? absolutely!
Your points are spot on.
It’s easy to justify JM going inside the line, I’ve done it when I thought the catcher was going to go outside the line.
What isn’t easy to justify is the lowing of the shoulder.
What’s impossible to justify is that it was a legal slide. As I said before, it wasn’t even a slide.
I’ve looked at this play several times from a few different angles and if you are an Angels or an Astos fan the only position ypu should come to is that Marasnik went for the catcher and not the plate. He lowered his shoulder into a tackle to a kneeling Lucroy.
The catcher position becomes an infielder in this situation.
I would like to see a 10 game suspension. That’s a clear cut dirty hit.
I have a problem with this on two levels. First, there is no teammate telling the runner where to slide. He could have gone slightly into foul territory and avoided the tag. But nobody is telling him to do that. That’s bad baseball. Secondly, the catcher is not actually in the baseline. That’s where the runner belongs, then choose a side from there is you have to avoid the catcher. If the runner is already in fair territory, he should be considered out of the baseline, just like running to first base. The ONLY thing you accomplish is to impede the ball. Therefore, the runner should ALWAYS be in foul territory. If it’s not a rule, it should be, Yes, if the runner has to go into fair territory at the very end to avoid the tag, that is ok.
google.com/amp/s/mlb.nbcsports.com/2019/07/08/jona…
Watch the video…Marisnick veered several feet into fair territory. Dirty play.
I’d love to see all of these keyboard umpires run as fast as Marisnick was and make a directional decision in a fraction of a second like he had to. he saw Lucroy’s head start going to the outside of the plate, so he adjusted and started inside, and Lucroy just happened to also go inside at that very moment. Usain Bolt would not have been able to change his course that quickly to avoid the collision. it really sucks Lucroy got hurt, but anyone with half a brain can tell it was not intentional, and I’m sure Lucroy will say the same. All of the other idiots, go get your eyebrows threaded with Yadi and shut the hell up.
He intentionally lowered his shoulder and ran Lucroy over. It’s not difficult to understand. We don’t know intent, but the result speaks for itself and Marisnick should be suspended WOP as long as Lucroy is out of action.
I’m an Angels fan and am sick over Skaggs and losing Goodwin and LaStella and now LeCroy in less than a week.
But I saw it live and saw the replays a half-dozen times while he was down.
Clearly Lucroy was moving to the outside and Maisnick was going to try and hit the plate around to the inside.
Ouch! How many concussions has Lucroy had in his career? Is he in danger of a position switch?