In an interesting examination, Joel Sherman of the New York Post makes the case that the Mets ought to take offers on ace Jacob deGrom. He doesn’t exactly advocate a swap — the club ought to move him only “if the return is so overwhelming that they can’t say no,” in Sherman’s estimation — but does suggest it’s a realistic possibility worth pursuing.
That’d be quite an about-face given that deGrom only just inked an extension with the New York organization over the offseason. It really doesn’t kick in until after the present season. Nominally a four-year, $120.5MM pact, the value of the extension was reduced significantly by deferrals.
That is a lot of coin for a pitcher who recently reached his 31st birthday, though deGrom is not just any hurler. He hasn’t been as dominant as he was last year, but that’s due mostly to regression in the home run department and a few shifts in sequencing fortune. Through 110 innings, he carries a 3.27 ERA with 11.3 K/9 and 2.1 BB/9. All the skills remain evident: deGrom has actually boosted his average fastball velocity to over 97 mph and is maintaining a swinging-strike rate in range of 15%.
There are some obvious barriers to a deal, as Sherman notes, beginning with Mets ownership. Even if the Wilpons are willing to authorize a franchise-altering swap, deGrom would have his say given his full no-trade rights.
That doesn’t mean it isn’t fascinating to consider the possibilities. At the moment, this year’s trade market is led by decidedly less-valuable hurlers such as Madison Bumgarner (who hasn’t lived up to his storied past of late), Marcus Stroman (often excellent but not consistently dominant), and deGrom’s teammate Zack Wheeler (ditto). deGrom is unquestionably one of the game’s very best pitchers; controlling him for four years at big but not eye-watering money would hold plenty of appeal.
There’s certainly some sense in the notion that the Mets ought to be willing to hit the re-set button. The offseason moves of new GM Brodie Van Wagenen have not hit the mark thus far; neither did those of his predecessor Sandy Alderson in the winter prior. Keeping deGrom while dealing only rental pieces would presumably mean a third-straight offseason re-tooling effort on the heels of a disappointing season.
On the other hand, the Mets would find themselves in a funny spot without deGrom. They still owe big money to players such as Yoenis Cespedes, Robinson Cano, Jed Lowrie, Wilson Ramos, and Jeurys Familia. They’ll be paying another arb raise to Noah Syndergaard, unless he’s also made available. (That would arguably make quite a bit of sense, whether or not deGrom is shopped; perhaps the underperforming Thor deserves his own poll.)
The situation obviously does not admit of straightforward solutions. How do you think the Mets should handle it? (Poll link for app users.)
I’d make everyone but Alonso and McNeil movable if I were them. Obviously you’d need an overpayment on guys like DeGrom, Diaz, Conforto, etc but they should definitely be available if the price is right.
Diaz stinks, why would anyone overpay for him just because the Mets did?
You’re right reverie, but the met shouldn’t trade him unless someone overpays for him because they did and because we all know the talent is there. The baseball world is funny… someone might overpay
Wait so he stinks based off his half season worth of games? What happens to the 2.5 seasons where he was a top reliever?
Diaz temporarily lost his closers job in May of ‘17. He did get it back, but “top relievers” don’t generally lose their jobs.
Too early to say he stinks, but let’s not pretend this hasn’t happened as recently as two years ago.
He was also pitching in SAFEco field against WEAK AL west teams.
Forget the excuses and pretending. This is the worst trade in MLB history.
What are you smoking?the worst trade in history was Nolan Ryan for Jim Fregosi.A close second was Frank Robinson for Milt Pappas.
You were pretty hard on the guy considering you didn’t mention the worst deal of all time.Babe Ruth to the Yankees for cash. How many championships did that cost Boston and we know it gave the Yankess 7 AL championships and 4 WS
He’s only 25 and is only one year away from a 1.96 era and 124 strikeouts in 73 innings. Though if the mets wanted to trade him for whatever reason, its probably best to wait and hope he fixes himself for better offers to come.
Diaz was one of the best RP in the game last year. selling him now would just be selling low.
65 saves last year and he stinks? Not having a great season but he certainly doesn’t stink.
Agree he doesn’t stink, too early.
He had a great year last year, but your saves number is incredibly incorrect, and consider quoting his ERA or WHIP, saves mean little to nothing in determining a relievers worth.
K-Rod is the only person to ever have more saves in a season than Diaz. He did it with a 2.24 ERA and 1.29 WHIP, Diaz had the better year, even though he had many less saves.
Rod Beck had 51 saves to go with his 3+ ERA and 1.3+ WHIP. Rivera had 17 seasons where he had less saves, but each season was better than Beck’s. The saves metric needs to be re-evaluated.
Nope coffee is for closers. Saves are for closers. The stat is perfect. Get last couple outs in close game is hard.
65 games finished last year, not saves
Keep Degrom, Alonso , McNeil and Conforto n
Diaz and Nido (pitchers are happy), You can’t give up on Conforto until year 5 or 6. Thor is pitching for his livelihood next year and most likely won’t get Degrom $ which he will demand. Trade him next July with hopefully the real Cano. Get rid of his contract and Cespedes Contract November 2020 and then maybe we can really make moves. Bye bye BVW!
Don’t need to keep Degrom…..plus he gets us a huge take…. #BLOWITUP
I strongly disagree. Lots of trades only make sense if you believe that GM BVM will correctly assess the talent received in return. I would not trade DeGrom unless the Astros want to offer both Yordan Alvarez and Kyle Tucker. I do agree that Alonso and MCNeil are the best pieces, but I like keeping DeGrom and Syndergaard, too. We could give away Cano and Frazier for a little bit of salary relief as far as I am concerned. I think Diaz will not ever repeat last year, but I don’t see trading him unless we get an offer beyond imagination. Same for Lugo. If Diaz and Lugo bounce back great, I would be happy to trade both for Cristian Pache or Drew Waters but that is not happening either. Instead of trading good prospects for Cano and Diaz, Mets could have signed Ottovino and Iglesias in the off-season and had prospects and money to spare. Mets were doing Mariners a favor, could have seen the trade if Mets no prospects back. In other words, we take Diaz in return for some salary relief on Cano, even that would have been a mistake in retrospect though, but to include prospects, it rivals D-backs trading Swanson, Inciarte and a pitching prospect for Shelby Miller. Not as bad as Nolan Ryan for Jim Fregosi though.
Hey Manny being Manny….NOBODY wants Cano. NOBODY will take Cano for ZERO prospects because the salary is crazy. NOBODY will take Cano if the Mets pay half.
A team might take a mostly paid elsewhere Cano along with another player that is the real prize. Sort of like the Mets were suckered to do, but taking on way LESS money.
You aren’t getting Pache and Probably not Waters either for anybody you’ve got on the Mets so you might as well forget you mentioned their names.
Braves would trade Pache or Waters for any of the following: Alonso, McNeil, DeGrom, Syndergaard. I agree that they probably would not trade Waters for Diaz and Lugo UNLESS they turned their seasons around first. But Braves already have Acuna, Riley, Markakis, Pache and Waters. I think a great swap might be Diaz for Ender Inciarte. Ender could play center surrounded by Conforto in right and Dominic in left. McNeil takes over at 2B and Frazier/Lowrie platoon at 3B.
Keep Degrom, Alonzo and McNeil and Conforto n Diaz bc he doesn’t cost anything for at least 2-3 years, Kid has good stuff. Just overwhelmed in NYC like old man Cano warned him. Sign Lindor in the winter n get the new manager. BVW is here at least another year n we all know it.
You want an overpayment for Diaz?whois going to overpay for a closer with a 5.50 era and 6 losses half way through a season Also why hold Conforto unless you think the Mets are contenders in the next two years. After that he’s a free agent. Everyone but Alonso and McNeil should be traded if possible. You’ll get a haul for Thor and Degrom and some valuable minor league pieces for the rest.Otherwise the Mets are doomed to mediocrity for a very long time.For the next couple of years the Mets are doomedwith a 24 million dollar Cano and Familias contract at 10.6 mill next year and 16.6 mill the year after that. Complete blow up the Mets only chance
As a mets fan I say absolutely, it’s not like we win any of his starts anyway not that it’s his fault, this team needs to rebuild only keepers should be Alonso and McNeil
U Met fans are crazy. We gave away 1 of the greatest pitchers in baseball history, the Franchise Tom Seaver for 4 terrible players from the Reds. Remember! Gooden we lost to drug addiction and got zero. We are not trading a 3 time All Star, CY Young winner and who knows how many more? Fire Callaway now and BVW in November and have Girardi as manager now and 1 of BVW’s assistants from the Bosox take over unless Tony Larussa be GM but I think he is done.
I am not against keep degrom, but Syndergaard must be traded if they keep degrom
They had their chance in the off-season when the Padres were interested.
Absolutely fire Callaway.
Why fire Callaway when you are leaving the idiot that assembled the team?
You’ve got a GM that is a
Commissioned salesman. He knows ZERO about building a team, recruiting, talent development or running an organization.
He was a big mouth at the news conference predicting success and an an impulsive child with the Cano Trade. Everyone (except kets fans in deep denial) predicted failure.
He sold it to the guy with the toupe with all of the BS of a faker.
Whew! Hopping into the way back machine to the 1970s and 1980s. The Mets are a straight up disaster right now.
Almost all their top talent is in the low level minors, they have a lot of likely dead money on the books through next year and very few players who are under team control not entering arbitration next year already.
To top it off, the play in a very tough division in baseball which isn’t likely to get easier in the near future. The window is pretty much closed, IMHO.
deGrom likely has little trade value after next year when his contract skyrockets to $35M/yr (see: Greinke, Zack)
Hey Marta’s-they have dead money on the books for the next FOUR seasons. Google “Cano contract” as you come to grips with your reality.
Emphatically correct about Seaver. And that was during a “cheap ownership” phase of Mets history. Please don’t let history repeat itself. Keep DeGrom. Dangle Thor instead.
Larussa?! please
And you let Nolan Ryan walk away.
Foolish comment….Get over it….Zero need to keep Degrom….Trade him for some young talented players
Hey you forgot giving up Nolan Ryan for nothing.He was pretty good after leaving the Mets wasn’t he.. But a new GM or new manager isn’t the answer.New ownership is the only answer.Sandy Alderson was great before the Wilponzis got a hold of him.
100% agree Willie. We remember when NL fans in NYC had hope and dignity. Mets fans have neither.
Sell as many players as you can, start rebuilding ASAP beginning with the GM & coach.
I’m no Mets expert, but from the outside looking in, it seems like unless the rebuild starts with a new owner it ain’t gonna work.
That actually does make you a Mets expert. The Wilpons are awful.
I couldn’t have said that any better, just to add the Mets will never go anywhere as long as the Wilpon’s own the team…
Same answer from a year ago. Yes.
What about all of the old squeaky Mets fans, like metsforever, 2015 NLCS Champs-2017 World Series Champs, and all other derivatives of losers that supported the Mets to no end.
Guess what they got?
NO END.
Until Fred takes his toupe off in the shower and washes his scalp properly he won’t grasp how much harm he and daddy are inflicting on NY fans.
The Wilpon’s have only one competitor;
James Dolan of the Knicks.
Together they know absolutely NOTHING about owning and managing a professional sports franchise in a major market.
This half rebuild never works. Tear it down. Keep Alonso and Mcneil and sell everything. That deGrom contract will end before the Mets are really relevant again- so trade him and Thor and get a crap load back.
The way the game is structured today, the only thing worse than a 100 loss season is a 75 win season. Win 100 or lose 100, being in the middle without a plan (where the Mets are) is disaster.
Because it allows the owners a cheap way out. They can tell the fans “oh we just need a little more we were almost there” then they add a player like Cano for the fans…and the rest is history.
Marlins and O’s are awful but they will be relevant before the Mets if NY keeps this mentality of “75-78 wins is good enough”
This definitely is not true. Teams like the Athletics and Cardinals have successfully maintained competitive rosters without completely tanking. It’s not the only way of success.
more times than not, that success does not lead to titles. It keeps them competitive and maybe a first round exit in the playoffs. Look at the Astros. They started over and now have an incredible roster. Most teams do not want to blow it up tho. I get it. But alot of the times it helps. WhiteSox are another good example of a team that pretty much traded everyone, and now they are an upcoming rising team.
It does not ALWAYS work but its better than lying to the fans and being “competitive” when everyone in the organization knows they got no shot.
And the A’s have won nothing to show for it.
“Teams like the Athletics and Cardinals have successfully maintained competitive rosters without completely tanking”
The Athletics have bottomed out several times over the last few decades…they stockpile high draft picks and hope. It’s what they do.
And while the Cardinals haven’t really bottomed out the way many other teams have, they have built-in (and some would say unfair) advantages from MLB. They have revenue streams in line with bigger market clubs, yet are treated as a small market team, gaining extra draft picks—the competitive balance BS—and international money. They draft and develop well, but they also have more opportunities that a number of clubs, including the Mets.
exactly. Being in the middle is the worst place to be imo. Id rather have an owner who is 100% committed going for a title, or 100% committed going for a rebuild. Mets are like 60/40, they need to be 100/0 in some direction.
The Cards were also helped by what was probably the worst division in baseball over about a 10 year period between the last time the Astros were good and the rise of the Cubs.
Correct. My Brewers were awful, same with the Pirates and Reds for a bit so they had an easier road
Yankees never did a full rebuild and look where they are. i know not every organization is capable, but it has to be when you strive for.
Because the Yankees and RedSox are able to buy their way into a division race. Even though alot of the Yankees are homegrown talent, they are capable of turning a decent team into a championship team by getting the best FAs.
they are the AL east oakland a’s
A 75 win season might be a tad optimistic
Rebuild
I’m sure the padres have enough to get degrom
They just extended him
Extension doesn’t mean the player can’t be traded (see Seth Smith, Yangervis Solarte, Brad Hand and Clayton Richard).
deGrom is highly valuable and should be dangled…talking to Giants fans, he’d almost bring back as much as Bumgarner.
Bumgarner is a rental though, meaning no one’s giving up a top 100 prospect for him like they would for deGrom and Syndergaard.
*sarcasm*
FYI: When you factor in the negative financial value of the deferrals, deGrom’s contract extension is essentially worth 4/$93M. That excludes his current year arbitration salary, and the team option at the end.
Also the second paragraph should be reworded. The deferrals reduced the value of the contract from deGrom’s perspective. It INCREASED the value from the team’s (and other prospective teams’) perspective. Since teams are the entities that make trades, and this article is about teams making trades, deGrom’s perspective doesn’t really seem relevant. Thus, the paragraph could and should be clearer about the fact that the money being deferred makes him more tradeable and more desirable, not less.
Something to consider too is that deGrom may only waive his no trade clause if the deferrals stop and get rolled into his salary. That no trade clause gives him a heck of a lot of leverage.
They should move him for as much as they can get. With teams like the Braves, Phillies, and even the Nats primed to own the division over the next few seasons (at least) they need to tear it down and aim for contending by 2023
A smart team would trade him. So, no, he won’t be traded.
If they have any hope of contending over the next few years, they have to keep him. And they should.
The Mets look like a mess right now, but they have a ton of talent. They’re not as far off as some seem to think they are. This season may be lost, but they could easily be right back in the race next season with a rebound from Diaz and a couple of upgrades.
The Mets are not as far off as people think? They are the worst fielding team in baseball. They worsen that by constantly playing people out of position They lose Wheeler at the end of the year.The salaries of Cano and Familia will go up big time starting next season.Thor will be earning more next season which means financially they will be a mess.There relievers are a joke.Next year they have two decent starting pitchers one of who gets injured regularly What exactly do you see that no one else sees.
Exactly. It’s only going to get worse. The front office obviously doesn’t know what it’s doing when it comes to major league transactions too, so you can’t count on them to pick up the right pieces to fill up the bullpen and back end rotation spots.
Obviously the Mets should entertain offers for DeGrom, but the likelihood of getting a deal done will be extremely difficult. The Mets would need a lot to trade him, and if a team is trading for him and his contract—which the Mets won’t and shouldn’t have to pay down—then the team looking to acquire him can turn to the D-Backs. Greinke will probably be less expensive (prospect-wise), and even though he’s older, he’s also under contract for half the time.
They should to some extent. They should demand a kings ransom plus some and rightfully so. If no one bites, move on. No big deal
Obviously deGrom, Syndergaard, and Conforto are gonna bring back massive returns, but I wouldn’t expect the same from dealing Diaz.
Perhaps the only explanation for his poor performance is just the ‘volatility of relievers,’ but unless Diaz has a great 2nd half, the fall that he’s taken this season definitely hurts the Mets chances of getting a top 100 prospect (another Kelenic) in return for that disastrous trade by BVW, even with his controllability.
I doubt the potential returns for Syndergaard or Conforto would be “massive”. Conforto’s a good player, but corner outfielders who hit well—but not on a top-tier level (Trout, Betts, Martinez, etc.)—aren’t worth all that much, and can be easily replaced/found. The haul for Syndergaard will be decent…someone will bet on his talent. Two years ago it would have been massive. But in several big league seasons, Syndergaard has yet to put it together in being a dominant, and consistent, front of the rotation starter.
@Tom
The return on Conforto and Syndergaard would actually be quite massive.
These are two very talented players in their mid 20’s with upside. Anything less than a massive return, should not/would be acceptable.
Syndergaard has never pitched a full season in the majors due to injuries and he is struggling this season. What makes you think he will get a massive return?
He is a tremendously talented pitcher, but health problems and the team dysfunction this season may limit the return the Mets get for him.
Thats ridiculous.What has Conforto done to earn a massive return. Mets fans have consistently overrated his ability.Conforto’s lifetime ba is 250.His top hr season is 28. and he is a corner outfielder..In what world is that deserving of a massive haul. Mets fans need to take a deep breath and realize nobody is dying for a 25 hr 250 ba guy..Syndegard will obviously be a bigger haul but his injury history and inability to really have a break out year will hurt his return.He will get a good haul though. DeGrom and Alonzo are the only Mets who will get a truly massive haul and the Mets are not moving Alonzo
Conforto is not the player Yelich is (or was), and did not have his skills or upside, and he’s not on an extremely team-friendly contract. The return for Yelich was good (at the time), but not “massive”. Why would Conforto, a worse player in a worse situation (contract-wise), get more?
Syndergaard is a mesmerizing talent, but he’s still a huge question mark of whether he can get it done and lead a rotation? Someone the other day compared him to, and rightfully so, Joe Kelly. A guy with a tremendous arm who SHOULD be great, but just can’t maintain it. The return would be good, but not massive. Basically they’d be able to expect back the type of return they sent Seattle… a couple top 100 prospects, maybe someone in the top 40ish included in that.
Just about every player in the league is available (subject to no trade clauses of course).for the right price. For many players, the price is exceedingly high and most teams will not pay the steep price. Every GM will listen to every offer and will laugh off 99% of them. We never hear about those 99%. That does not mean that the discussions did not take place.
good luck getting free agents to come in the future if you intend on trading them right after resigning them to a long-term extention.
degrom was not a free agent
I don’t think that would be an issue due to deGrom’s NTC. Especially with the current market, I don’t see a player not considering the Mets if they make a high-dollar offer. And if they were to trade deGrom they wouldn’t be spending major money in the marketplace anyways since they’re be rebuilding.
Knowing the Mets they won’t trade him
Straight up Mookie Betts for DeGrom
Waiting for the classic Yankee fan proposal of Tyler wade abreu and more prospects that have no value
I think they should dangle him, The return could greatly expedite any rebuild. Take a team like the Padres badly in need of an ace… They have quite a few top 100 prospects and near MLB ready ones.
Considering the state of starting pitching right now, especially for the contenders, they should get a haul. Because of the reasonable extension he signed you would have teams like the Padres as a feasible partner. They are loaded up with major league ready youth.
The only way I would consider moving deGrom is to get out from under the Cano contract. The Mets royally f-ed up with the Mariners trade.
I said it as soon as that trade was made that it would end awful with Cano. It is not even over and its already bad lol The fact that the Mets GM made that move as his “big offseason addition” he should be canned.
So did everyone outside of the Mets’ inner circle. There were probably assistant GMs begging the Wilpon’s not to sign off on the deal, and the Mariners had to be jumping for joy at their unbelievable fortune.
i would except less for degrom just to get rid of the remainder of $60 mil owed to Cano, thats just stupid.
Sorry but I think you mean 96 million lol (not counting the rest of this years salary)
You add Cano to a trade of Degrom and there won’t be that much coming back.The other team would be taking on a Degrom contract of 4 years 119 million dollars because the Mets are only paying him 7 million this year and 94 million dollars to Cano over the next 4 years which is a total of 213 million dollars over 4 years for 2 players. How much would you expect to get back when one of those players is worthless and the other a pitcher will be 36 at the end of that contract
Mets have to fire Callaway and get someone that knows what they’re doing. That roster is super talented. I wouldn’t trade DeGrom or Thor unless it was for an absurd haul.
Mets and Nationals certainly confuse me. Those rotations are insanely talented, but cant put it together as a collective team. Id love it for my team to have a rotation like the Mets or Nats. We would be 20 games in first haha. But no, we just waiting for Gio to come back smh
The Nats have had a competent manager a few times but they run them off for cheap replacements. Davey Johnson and Dusty Baker had success and were run off.
The Mets are insanely talented? After this year they have 2 starting pitchers and one can’t stay on the field.They have no bullpen. They are a terrible fielding team.They basically have two really good young players in Alonso and Mcneil a great pitcher in DeG an injury prone good pitcher in Thor and thats about it
Can’t hurt to listen.
It makes total sense to move him. However, does anyone really trust Mets management to get it right?
No.
yes
The cool thing with this particular question is we’ll know which one was the worst option because the Mets will do it.
Fire Callaway.Hire Girardi.If nothing else it will rejuvenate a stadium that is at the moment dead quiet.
Do you think Girardi can teach Ramos to catch?
You should be open to anything – as everyone discussed – but there is absolutely no chance the Mets trade DeGrom especially after signing him to the extension. This largely has to do with the Wilpons caring more about how it will look in the media than anything else. As a die hard – but realistic Mets fan – I would say to Brodie what others on this thread have said – build around Alonso, McNeil, and DeGrom… everyone else can be had.
Doesn’t make sense to sell low on guys such as Syndergaard, Diaz, etc….. The Mets would be better off hoping for a second half turn around compared to selling low. A lot of people are over reacting to the historically awful bullpen rather then using actual reason. Considering this is the Mets they’ll probably sell off for pennies on the dollar.
The Mets need more young cheap stars like Alonso to counter the over priced mistakes
Trading DeGrom to the Padres would help.
They have plenty of near ready prospects that could get it done.
Unless Cano goes with deGrom plus they get back players they need like a Young CF,C,Sp and BP at least some of those needs if not forget about trading deGrom
if including Cano means less of a return for degrom, then NO
kahnkobra – Mets aren’t trading Degrom.
You are right because that would be the smartest thing they could do. Also to Kahnkobra adding Cano to that trade would kill the return for Degrom. Best move trade Degrom for massive haul and realize with Cano and Familia contracts you are dead for several years
They traded Seaver and regretted it ever since.
What’s “interesting” about it? Sherman has been writing the same thing for a year and you have been echoing him for that long. Just people fillimg up all-star game space.
jetroe – Spot on. Stupid article by Sherman, and even dumber for MLBTR to promote it,
Da Muts – whatever they do, it will be the wrong choice. Sad…
I’ve always looked at the Mets and think they’re the orioles but with more money and publicity
The Mets will get less for deGrom than they gave up for Cano/Diaz. With BVW in charge you can expect him to come back with a bag of magic beans.
rmullig2, just stop with the nonsense Mets bashing. I’m sick of the same stupid group-think bash-Brodie theme every time trade discussions arise.
The Cano trade will go down in history as the worst baseball trade in the history of NY sports. Can anybody name one good trade/signing that BVW has done?
The Lowrie and Familia deals have also blown up in his face. If the Mets had done nothing this past offseason they would be in position to contend in the NL east for the next five seasons, instead they are staring at another rebuild.
You’re right Brodies great. The Cano trade was magnificent.The Lowrie signing inspired. The Familia signing genius.Do you feel better now
Stupid Premise in the New York Post, and even dumber for MLBTR to pick it up and write about it.
Mets made a commitment to Degrom and he made one to the Mets through his extension. They’re not going to make him feel unwanted by shopping him and especially by asking him to waive his no-trade to uproot his life and family who have certainty in knowing where they’re going to be. Mets will be retooling around Degrom, McNeil, and Alonso, and others. This is no-brainer.
Is it a no-brainer to finish every season in the 70s wins and barely ever get to the playoffs?
The Mets are in a deep pile of doo doo. Screwed if you do or if you don’t.
They are 10 games under .500 at the All Star break and have no shot at a playoff berth in 2019.
They will lose their starting 3B and a steady starting pitcher to FA at the end of the season.
They have a dysfunctional ownership group that will not spend commensurate with their revenue.
They have an untenable $184 million in projected payroll in 2020 including contractual raises and arbitration raises. That is nearly $30 million more than the opening day $158 million payroll in 2019 that Jeff Wilpon said was stretching their resources.
They are stuck with large contracts for older players that are not performing or are hurt. Cespedes ($29MM in 2019 and 2020), Cano ($24 million for 2019-2023, Lowrie, Ramos, Lagares, Familia, Vargas.
They owe the 31 year old deGrom $130.5 million for the next 4 years. ($20 million signing bonus to be paid in 2020-2021 and 2020 – $23M, 2021 & 2022- $33.5M, 2023 – $30.5M)
Their best trading chips, Syndergaard and Wheeler, are under performing this season.
Even Diaz, the wunderkind that they got along with Cano, is struggling in NY.
Positives are that after 2020, they only have $70 million on the books. The con is that is for 3 players, Cano, deGrom, and Familia.
Another positive is that Alonso and McNeil are playing so well this season and are under team control for 5 and 4 more seasons respectively. Even Rosario is playing well. That forms a nice core of young players.
The con is that there is not much more coming. Gimenez is struggling in AA. Mauricio is in A ball and 3 years away. Up and down the system Mets top prospects are struggling.
Kay is the only bright spot in the Mets farm system and he is a starting pitcher.
So what is the solution? Trade away deGrom. The return would be huge. Start with 2 Top 100 prospects. Add a couple of other quality prospects that would shore up a weak farm system.
Then trade away Syndergaard and Diaz. Even with “Thor’s” injury history and both of their poor 2019 seasons, the returns would be big. A top 100 prospect plus a couple more good prospects for each.
Then trade the soon to be FA Wheeler. At least 2 quality prospects
4 trades. 4 top 100 prospects and 8 other quality prospects.
If the Mets are smart at least 4 are MLB ready or already in the majors.
Then trade Ramos. He is still a great hitting catcher and even if two of the starting pitchers on the Mets have said they do not want to pitch to him, someone will take him and give up a couple of decent prospects.
Eat big money to get rid of Cano to an AL team.
That would gut the 2019 team, but put the Mets on path to contention in 2022.
2020 lineup C – Nido, 1B – Alonso, 2B – McNeil, SS – Rosario, 3B – Davis, LF – Cespedes?, CF – Nimmo, RF – Conforto. That is decent.
The 2020 rotation is the big question mark then. Matz, Vargas, and Kay. Then ???
So what do the Wilpons and BVW do? Probably stand pat and then fire the coaching staff at the end of the season in an attempt to save face.
So your trading away deGrom,Syn,Diaz and Wheeler and not getting any ML players in return lol and I doubt Matz and Vargas will be on this team in 2020
Rosario is a terrible fielding ss.Ramos is not a great hitting catcher he is maybe a good hitting catcher.and a terrible fielder Diaz is not getting you back anything close to a Top 100 prospect and another quality prospect.Last year in June Kelvin Herrera had let up 1 run the whole season and he got back the Nats number 10 prospect and two single A non descript players.I also don’t understand what a quality player means if he’s not a top 100 prospect.It’s an oxymoron. Then when you say major league ready.I don.t see how you get major league ready players for what you are giving up except maybe one for DeG and one for Thor.Finally unless you are eating 20mill per year of Canos 24mill and even thats a questionablemove why would anybody want a bad attitude bad hitting player clogging there roster up for 4 years. Right now Cano is not even a mediocre dh
The problem with trading Cano to be a DH is that he can no longer H.
If the Mets pay all but $500k of the entire rest of his salary, I’m sure a team would give a C type prospect on a flier. (not sure the commissioner’s office would even approve that)
But I can’t really see a team taking any salary or giving up anything of actual value for a player with humungous negative value.
Look at Encarnacion. He is raking, and the Ms paid half of his salary for this year and got maybe a B prospect.
Cabbies get McNeil for swarber and a prospect!
*Cubbies*
No on DeGrom. It’s possible he’s already in decline after his career year.
Yes. They need to embark on a full-scale rebuild like their division rivals in Miami and that does entail trading deGrom. I doubt they actually do it however.
I say trade him for an overwhelming return but to me it should not be done for the benefit of the team but more to be fair to the player. He is an excellent talent and has a right to be part of a winning organization which The Wilpon led Mets will never be.
What right does DeGrom have to be part of a winning organization? Yes, he’s a great talent, but HE decided to stay in NY. He signed a contract before ever even testing the market. The Mets and the Wilpons owe him nothing.
Sometimes you have to tear it down before you can build it up. deGrom should be traded, preferably if you can force the other team to take Cano with him. That would mean sending him to the Yankees, because Cano has a no trade and that’s the only team he’ll go to. They can’t ask for Torres, especially if the Yankees agree to take on Cano’s contract, but they should be able to pry away Andujar, Frazier, and a pitching prospect. DeGrom would guarantee the Yankees the World Series. The only players on the Met’s that are keepers, are Alonso, McNeil, Davis and Conforto.
If they can get a franchise altering package for deGrom, then trade him. But the Mets don’t necessarily have to deal him–they have other less “vital” pieces they could move such as Wheeler, Ramos, Frazier, and Vargas, among others.
Some are saying that half-rebuilds don’t work, but the Mets have enough talent on the ML roster that a smaller step back now could potentially make a “retooling” feasible.
You have to be a Met fan. What exactly do you think you are getting back for a one month rental of Wheeler. a catcher no pitcher wants to pitch to a one month rental of Todd Frazier and Jason Vargas, That will not cause even a ripple in the mess that is the 2019 NY Mets
The Mets should absolutely not trade Degrom. They would be crazy to do that………UNLESS it is to the Braves.
Yes,he deserves better
If course you listen. Hell, I’d listen on anyone other than Alonso (and even with him, there is obviously a price, but not one anyone will realistically pay).
This year is lost and there is zero reason to believe next year will be better. But 2021 could be a turn around if they play it right.
1) Ownership has to agree to pay this year’s salaries for anyone being moved. That puts a lot more teams in play and should increase the return.
2) To make that palatable to ownership, next year’s payroll is going to drop. But they need to be prepared to go back up, and even exceed, this year’s in 2021.
3) There is a core of Alonso, McNeil, and Conforto. Too soon to give up on Rosario, but if CF is a better fit then go ahead, it’s a need anyway. And three of the Mets top 4 prospects are SS’s, one of whom may be ready by next year. I personally still think Nimmo can be a major league regular.
4) Kay should be available sometime next season. They need to target other pitchers with a similar ETA.
5) Padres would still be my first call with either Degrom or Syndergaard. Mejia would be the name I’d start with, (but I could see the Mets wanting more defense at the position). What’s reasonable for Degrom or Syndergaard? Gore would be my ask, but I’d also consider getting two of the next tier.
6) After that, trade whomever didnt go to the Padres to whomever you can get the best package from. Houston maybe?
7) Wheeler hopefully gets you a borderline top 100 guy.
8) Frazier, Vargas, Ramos- even paying their salaries for this season isn’t getting anyone great, but maybe gets them some higher upside guys who are a years away.
9) Probably wouldnt sell low on Diaz. Likely hold onto Lugo and Gsellman as well unless you get an offer you can’t refuse.
10) Ideally, you’ve added two high upside arms who are on a similar timetable to Kay.
Next year the team is the holdovers from this year, and a bunch of guys who are just happy to get a major league job. The goal is to introduce the young pitchers gradually into the major leagues, and have them positioned to be able to make it through a full year in 2021.
As for 2021- if everything goes right (which it won’t) you might already have a group that is ready to contend. More realistically, they are a few players short. But here’s the thing- they really shouldn’t have much in the way of payroll commitments. Which gets back to what I said up top- they have to spend. They will need at least one really good SP, maybe two. A bullpen. At least one hitter.
Couple of questions.Do you really think paying a month of Wheelers salary or anybody elses salary will be the difference maker in a trade. Allso that Mets think of Rosario being a terible ss so lets make him a centerfielder is ridiculous.You are on the right track though.Trade everyone you can but Mcneil and Alonso and hope for the best.Truthfully though I wouldn’t entrust Brodie with that task.Hes a novice GM with a terrible track record
If this wasnt going to be the last straw then what is? If you wait until your team wins less than 70 games that probably means you dont have much talent left to be traded.
Trade now:
DeGrom is not going to be more valuable when he turns 32.
JD Davis…maybe. It depends. The Phillies Maikel Franco has been a horror show with an OPS+ of 82 and -0.2 war. You just might get the Phillies to give up an absurd package for him. Otherwise, just like Comforto, you keep him to see if you get a contending club before they are to old to build around. Comforto and Davis you are in no rush to trade.
McNiel: Ya I’m going to get blasted for this one but I’m not talking about motivated, aggressive, get what you can for him kind of thinking. It also depends on whether you do a full rebuild outside of the absolute keepers. Dangle McNiel for an expensive but realistic price because that would still be quite high. He is going to be 28 next year and in 4 years he might not be so productive
Trade Yesterday:
Dominic Smith. It might already be to late. The cracks in the pavement are showing. His 366 BABIP and slightly bellow average exit velocity with no speed means there is no way he sustains his current production.
Jason Vargas: Even if teams see through his 3.77 ERA he isn’t ever going to be worth more than right now going forward. He might even be more appealing to some teams than Bumgarner as the Giants might expect to much for MadBum.
Trade after season / 2020 trade deadline:
Diaz: Let him rebuild his value. You would be selling low on him and assuming he bounces back in the second half or the 2020 deadline, you could make a fortune with him.
Syndagaard: Dont know if his value has ever been lower.
Keepers to build on:
Alonso: I shouldnt even need to justify this with an explanation.
Rosario: This one MIGHT need some explanation. His BABIP is .313 which I think is low for him. I know that was about what it was last year but this year he’s hitting the ball with more power, has an exit velo above league average and he has speed as well. That is all a recipe for a BABIP that I think will go up. You might say then let him rebuild value and trade him but he’s 23 with lots of control. If he rebuilds his value it will be as a building block and not as a trade.
I know there are others but these are the most interesting to me.
I think you keep McNeil. It would be pretty weird even for a rebuilding team to trade a player like that this early. They have other players to move like deGrom, Conforto, and Smith. I don’t think they should be desperate to trade McNeil right now. If he continues to hit like this into next season he will be the kind of player you can get a haul for. I think the right front office could still get something good for syndergaard, but I don’t trust this front office to get anything for him. Getting good value for deGrom shouldnt be as difficult if you get past the no trade clause.
You trade McNiel now because of his trade value. Next year he is older with less control. You trade him later if you think he is going to do even better. After all I notice your still propose to trade him later for a haul and I proposed to trade him NOW for a haul unless you dont get it than you wait. Do you really see much of a difference between what you and I are saying?
So you would rather trade McNiel later who its difficult to see becoming MORE valuable because he is already really valuable but trade Syndagaard now who’s value is the lowest it’s been?
Look, I’m sure Syndagaard could still probably get a decent package but if you have any kind of reasonable faith in the guy you sell him when his production isnt cratering the way it is now.
One more injury and Thors trade value becomes negligible.Thor right now would get you a very reasonable return
The starting pitching is going to be a complete disaster moving forward I predict.
deGrom is great. Then after that, Syndergaard is lost, Wheeler will go to a new team, Matz isn’t any good, Vargas will be gone. Kay is a nice pitching prospect but not a McKay or Luzardo. If Syndergaard doesn’t recover this team may be competing for worst record in baseball as soon as next year, because not only will the bullpen continue to be horrible, but the starting pitching will be significantly thinner. A smart front office would see this coming and consider trading deGrom now. I guarantee you the starting pitching is going to be a gigantic headache next year even if they keep deGrom.
As a Met fan what are we really losing in trading Degrom??? About 14-17 wins over 2 seasons or 324 games!!! What a small fraction that is. Let’s trade him for a big hall. How about Some of those Yankee prospects and Miguel Anduja
R
You do know your owners are the Wilponzis right?.Degrom is not going to the Yankees’Also I’m a Yankee fan and even I don’t know why you would trade DeGrom for Andujar coming off a major injury?
JOEL SHERMAN IS A YANKEE BUTT BOY
GOT NEWS FOR YOU JOEL ,… The METS WOULD TRADE deGROM TO NORTH KOREA BEFORE THEY’D trade him to the YUCKIES
when your general manager makes zero positive moves you do not move DeGrom period
Absolutely they should entertain offers for him, if not only for the reason he deserves better than this crap-hole of an organization.
You were pretty hard on the guy considering you didn’t mention the worst deal of all time.Babe Ruth to the Yankees for cash. How many championships did that cost Boston and we know it gave the Yankess 7 AL championships and 4 WS