Orioles lefty John Means ascended from 40-man filler to building block in less than a year’s time, and the All-Star rookie sat down with MLB.com’s Joe Trezza to discuss his remarkable season. Candidly, Means revealed that he was expecting to be designated for assignment to clear 40-man space last winter. He’d made an emergency September start, allowing five runs in 3 1/3 innings, and was never considered much of a prospect within the system. Means attributes much of his breakout to a rigorous offseason program with P3 Premier Performance & Pitching, where he was able to boost his velocity, and Spring Training work with minor league pitching coordinator Chris Holt that led to an improved changeup. He’ll return to P3 this winter and spoke with determination when discussing ways in which he can further improve.
“I was never supposed to be here,” said the southpaw. “I wasn’t a first rounder. I wasn’t a prospect. I wasn’t someone who was supposed to do well. So when you have your success, you want to keep it going. That might take you to a certain level, but it won’t take you over the top or over the hump.” In 155 innings this season, the 26-year-old Means logged a 3.60 ERA with 7.0 K/9, 2.2 BB/9 and a 30.9 percent grounder rate. He’s controlled through 2024.
More out of Baltimore as the gears of a rebuild continue to turn…
- Speaking of Holt, he’s being promoted from minor league pitching coordinator to the organization’s director of pitching, Roch Kubatko of MASNsports.com reports. In the new role, he’ll have a much larger impact on the big league club and work more closely with returning pitching coach Doug Brocail. Holt came to the Orioles from the Astros alongside GM Mike Elias last offseason. He previously served as Houston’s assistant pitching coordinator but looks increasingly like a rising influence in his new organization, as Kubatko details. He’ll continue to oversee individualized development plans for the team’s minor league pitchers but will now have input on the MLB arms in a season that figures to see several younger arms emerge at the big league level.
- Dylan Bundy’s once-blistering fastball has faded early in his career as he’s worked through myriad injuries, but the right-hander spoke with Jon Meoli of the Baltimore Sun about his plans to continue working through the lost velocity and alter his pitch mix. Bundy cited Zack Greinke as a model he’d like to follow and explained how he began to favor his offspeed pitches more frequently as the season wore on (and, as Meoli notes, as his production improved). Bundy acknowledged plenty of room for improvement in his bottom-line numbers but spoke confidently about his ability to eventually make things work with a lesser fastball. “Now it’s staying healthy and keep learning what I learned this year about the way I pitched now, just continuing to improve,” he said. “…I think if I pitch at 92-93, 91 even, and locate it, use my other pitches, then I’ve been told that the heater plays up because of that other stuff.” Bundy, controlled by the Orioles through 2021, pitched to a 4.79 ERA with 9.0 K/9, 3.2 BB/9, 1.61 HR/9 and a career-high 41.5 percent grounder rate in 161 2/3 innings this year. He’s projected by MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz to earn $5.7MM in 2020.
I see Bundy getting dealt this offseason to either the Astros or Rangers.
I see Bundy getting dealt too, just not sure where. Guy clearly has pitching IQ and at times his offspeed offerings are really good. It’s been interesting to see him try to work without the plus-velocity. The real problem, however, is that he has way too many lapses in location with his fastball—and then pays the price. This is an area of his pitching that seems not to have improved.
The problem with dealing Bundy is we have no one to replace those innings. His 5 MM salary isn’t egregious this year. I think it’s possible he gets flipped at the deadline because next year he’ll be looking at 8+ In arbitration and we may have some arms ready at that time. But there’s really no way we can move him before then. Our rotation already looks primed to include Wojo or Brooks again. Maybe both if we don’t add any pitchers.
You can get an innings eater to fill in. Clayton Richard, od, minor leaguer
It’s called a rebuild man
There’s no need to give Bundy away to put Clayton Richard in the rotation. If someone wants to give you something for Bundy then that’s fine. But to give him away for little to nothing makes no sense when you’re replacing him with a non prospect. Or someone with little no value in flipping. You replace Bundy with someone who has legitimate flip potential/prospect or you get something for Bundy that has actual value.
No one said give Bundy away. But it is entirely possible Bundy is dealt for a player who isn’t ready for MLB just yet..,
Clayton Richard. Are you kidding me?? Next time, take your time before coming up with a name. Clayton Richard will only eat time on the IL. He will be lucky to break camp with a major league team in 2020. Or even invited. Poor example of an innings eater. In fact, probably one of the very worst names anyone could come up with.
You can rebuild with Bundy with this O’s squad. If he can have a good start to the 2020 season you deal him. Deal him with some strength in your position. No rush to deal him now.
I largely agree with your concerns regarding value. And yet I think several teams still see some upside to Bundy (though with each season I become more skeptical). Additionally he doesn’t give us a ton of innings. In fact a major drawback of his tenure has been the lack of innings he’s able to give, not just cumulatively over a season but during each start.
He also has some appeal in years remaining under team control. My hesitation in trading him would be holding out hope that the new regime can, alas, maximize his potential.
Bundy at his floor gives you 160 innings and 30 starts a year. I’m not saying that is great by any means but it’s reliable. He looked a bit better as time went on and I still hold out hope that he can get a little better. I don’t think we’d get anything that would be worth dumping him today and that’s my problem.
With no internal replacement and the chance that Bundy could get a little better I’d rather just hold on for another half season. By all means if someone gives us something of value then I’d change my stance. If we’re talking about a lottery ticket or two type of prospects, I’d rather hang on. I don’t see much downside in holding on til then because I don’t see much of a return coming back if we deal him now. Combine that with our lack of depth at SP and it seems like an easy choice to me.
And as for the guy above championing for more minor league FA or waiver wire type guys in the rotation….. We already have 2 of those guys today in the rotation. And that’s assuming perfect health for Cobb, Bundy, and Means the entire season. The only pitching prospect with a chance of cracking the big league rotation is Keegan Akin. He didn’t pitch very well in Norfolk either. It’ll be at least a couple months into the season before Wells,Kremer, or Baumann can get a look.
If the trade is to dump Bundy’s money for a lotto ticket or two; I don’t see any upside whatsoever. I can’t imagine too many teams with playoff aspirations that currently want to pencil Bundy in their rotation. Particularly with the supply of free agent pitchers being relatively deep this year. I don’t see value coming back at this point in time.
You keep being up dumping him. It’s fine you don’t think he has trade value but no one who suggested trading him feels that way.
Good argument.
@popeye I’m just being realistic here. There’s a bunch of SP’s on the free agent market with highly comparable numbers to Bundy. I would like to get a great return for him as much as anybody but I don’t think it’s realistic to expect that to happen. I don’t think we need a bunch of C level “prospects” like we got for Gausman. This isn’t a guy like Cashner who was a pending FA. We have the luxury of time. That’s my point here.
Goes to Astros and throws a no hitter ?
Goes to the Cubs and wins the Cy Young
I see Bundy getting traded this offseason only if Elias gets a satisfactory return.
Other teams will try to lowball the Orioles and Elias won’t make a deal. If he continues to improve in the Spring, he will be an excellent Trade Deadline candidate.
I see the Orioles keeping Bundy, and he shows up at spring training with a couple more mile-an-hour on his fastball.
Have Bundy do the same thing Means did at P3 and turn things back around.
Dylan Bundy = Sidney Ponson.
Interesting comparison. Sid did pitch 11 years in the Bigs, winning 91 games. But I think the big difference is that Bundy seems to accept that his fastball is no longer the weapon it once was and, at least publicly, will try to change his pitching pattern. Plus, no question about his fitness. Ponson, however, was known to be a headcase, not one to follow directions or take instruction. And Sidney was never one to be all that worried about fitness. Sid was done by age 32. I should think Bundy will be around for a little while longer.
Bundy won’t be around in five years if he continues to pitch the way he has along with his fastball velocity going down. He’ll be 27 in a month. He’s not going to keep getting chances for much longer.
His season wasn’t that bad. He looked better as the season went on. If he regresses permanently then he’ll go to the bullpen in Baltimore or somewhere else
Right, he was pitching in a division with three very good teams and acquired himself fairly well.
Not at all. Far too many differences between them.
Righty Oriole pitcher, came up at an early age and ultimately failed. Bundy career era of 4.67 and raising, Ponson ended with a 5.03.
Ok, I’ll answer both your replies.
First, Bundy has only been around four years, seems longer, I know, but that’s because he showed up as a 19 year-old in 2012 and not again til 2016. His first two years were solid, than came 2018, when the whole thing cam tumbling down. But to say his ERA keeps rising is to ignore reality. His 2019 season was far superior to his 2018 season. WHiP down from 1410 to 1355, big drop in HRs, 41-29, and this being a homer happy year! ERA down three quarters of a run, Strikeouts down 20, but he faced 50 fewer batters in 2019 than in 2018, accounts for some of the drop. Four more walks is a bit concerning, but 58 in 161 innings isn’t horrible. And Bundy clearly has begun to accept that he’s going to have to change his style. Like you said, he’s just 27, heading into prime years.
No doubt, Ponson had talent, but it does seem Bundy’s mental makeup is stronger, especially when it come to staying in shape.
All we can do is hope, right?
Talent and hope! Isn’t that what kept Ponson around until they realized it would never come to fruition?
Talent and hope will keep Bundy around, too. Let’s see what happens, But just because one guy failed doesn’t mean the other will, too. I think I’ve explained why Bundy seems to have a brighter future.
And I’m just saying those are the same things that have been said countless times before. Yes, he can improve, but will he? He improved from last year, but that wasn’t really hard to do.
You have. And thanks for differentiating between the two. Sidney also struggled with alcoholism.
I would rather bet on Bundys work ethic over Ortiz laziness to become a good MLB player
Why? Because neither of them are skinny?
Means was a valuable asset in Fantasy baseball this year
Think positive!!!
Dylan Bundy Translation: “I’m not trying to throw hard. I’m going to spend the next couple of yeras learning how to pitch. I’m an Oriole. I’m pitching for nothing. Our season is over in early May! I’m not blowing my arm out in meaningless games for a Quad-A ball club. I’m going to pitch like Verlander the last couple of years in Detroit and pray that they trade me for a bag of balls. And when I get out of here, I’m going to DOMINATE.”
Justin Verlander was injured his last few years in DET. The Tigers defense let him down in most of his games.
Sure he was. So he was still injured a week before he got traded to the Astros? That’s why his fastball velo jumped by like 5 MPH in his first start for Houston?
Give me a break. He was on a terrible team. He was mailing it in and trying to get traded. If you don’t think guys do it, you’re being incredibly naive.
I bet you also think starting pitchers give max effort for 32 starts a year.
Makes no sense. If Verlander was so bad with the Tigers then why would Houston want him?
His velocity was already rebounding when he was with the Tigers. In 2016, it had already jumped by .7 MPH between 2015-16. Plus he was already throwing in the 95’s before the trade in 2017. He didn’t just gain 5 MPH on his fastball in Houston. He was already throwing harder, and the trend just continued. Plus, why would he be mailing it in if he wanted to be traded? Seems kind of counterproductive for your case to be traded. If you want to be traded, you try your hardest because if you are under performing, the team will probably keep you around to see if your value will rebound.
If you want to go to a contending team, and you want your current team to eat salary to facilitate it… uh… yeah.
Verlander pre-trade: 3.82 ERA, 9.2 K/9, 3.5 BB/9
Verlander post-trade: 1.06 ERA, 11.4 K/9, 1.3 BB/9
He was TOTALLY giving 100% before that trade.
His velocity ticked up when they started talking about trading him.
His ERA by month: April – 4.60, May – 4.42, June – 4.39
Trade rumors start, Houston’s interested. July – 3.82
August…. 2.36
September (post-trade) – 1.06
Ok then, explain his 2016 season when he had a 3.04 ERA/3.48 FIP, led the league in WHIP, and strikeouts, plus finishing 2nd in Cy Young voting. If you want traded, you pitch good so teams are actually interested in you. No team is going to trade for a guy who looks washed up on a large contract unless you’re pitching good. Plus his fastball did get off to a slow start. It wasn’t until July when it was up to full speed.
Yea the Tigers did good in 2016, but it’s not like the Tigers really subtracted from their core from 2016 and 2017, so if anything, he should have been good out of the gate.
Dude… they won 86 games and competed for a playoff spot in 2016. Hence, he had a reason to care (and to risk injury by trying.)
They were utter trash in 2017. Moreso, was it a SURPRISE that they were trash in 2017? Or were there pre-season projections that had them losing 100 games that year?
They didn’t subtract from their core? Is it enough to add nothing to your core when most of it is severely aging and due for major decline?
That still doesn’t explain his increase in velocity throughout 2016 to 2017.Had he not been trying, his velocity would not have went up. at the very least, it would have flatlined.
Did his velocity rise after a trade to Houston? Yes, but it wasn’t sudden, or strange. it went up by less than 1 MPH.
Top Rookies Starting Pitchers:
1) ATL Mike Soroka
2) SDP Chris Paddock
3) STL Dakota Hudson
4) BAL John Means
5) MIA Sandy Alcantara
6) ARI Merrill Kelly
Top Rookie Relief Pitchers:
1) TBR Nick Anderson
2) BOS Josh Taylor
3) ATL Jacob Webb
4) ARI Yoan Lopez
5) LAA Ty Buttrey
6) MIL Adrian Houser
It’s always refreshing to hear stories about guys like John Means, and to hope that his unexpected successes continue!
I’m not sure Means is a “building block”. He was phenomenal but how many one year wonders have come and gone.
Means seems like a good dude. Worked his butt off. Good on him, hopefully it lasts. With starting pitchers these days, I’d be more worried about injury than the one-hit wonder thing, honestly.
I hope it last as well.
I feel like they should maybe dangle Means this offseason. If someone gives up something pretty good, they pretty much have to bite. If he flops next year, his value is basically gone. Even if this is the real pitcher, bringing back something is probably better than nothing. Once they’re ready to compete again they can just trade or buy pitching.
What do the orioles need more than a pitcher they can control for the next half decade? If someone blows you away, sure. But the biggest need we have is pitching. Means potentially helps fill that void for a very long time.
I would look at offers to see what the value is. He could pull at Tillman and go from all star to released overnight.
Chris Davis’ contract doesn’t run out until he becomes a free agent in 2023. It’s really become a George Costanza vs. Play Now situation. If he continues to show up, he gets paid $20 million a year to hit .170.